"These Children Can Read Your Mind!” (ft. Ky Dickens | Telepathy Tapes Documentary)

bigger than our knee-jerk reactions of Truth have everyone on the crew just come and write a word down H you've just done an amazing job documenting these autistic in many cases non-verbal children who display

telepathic Powers which I can't believe I'm even saying but you show that this is you know occurring in statistically significant ways what picture am I looking at now okay let you say it okay what is this you see I'm not even looking at him yeah you have a Harvard trained neuroscientist Dr Diane Powell who doing the studies but you also you know seem eminently you know normal and not you

know insanely woo woo I needed to believe it was happening and so I asked Diane you know can can we can I do my own test where I bring the cues and pick the house I didn't want her to be a factor in it so I wanted to control the test I want Dr P to bring the stuff I don't want families to bring the stuff I just want to be like the layer for Skeptics where it's like you know get this on I'm not even going to open it until the day up and she said yes and I said I'd like it to be a family we

generator a random picture generator I brought flash cards colored balls we did various tests and she was right every a a hearing her say without fail what's in her mother's mind it's just I don't know it's so amazing and then hearing the

earnestness of her parents as well where it's like these people clearly are not lying they're not grifting you know there's no ulterior motive here you you can write a word too you can write a word so ke just sees the back of my hand okay I'm just going to grab one uh actually the too easy hold on that goes with what we just looked at um oh that's tell me when when is ready okay you see this yeah what do you want um okay

what's in my mind what's the what's the picture about back c r o c o d i l e crocodile so awesome ail that's so

mhm good job here we go doing so good 8 what what m H I think that you know with the telepathy tapes um one of the things that I you know I realized in terms of instead of me just writing up all these cases you know and then that being yet another thing that's in the scientific literature that people need to Hear What I Hear because I'm not just collecting

data I'm assessing you know the um the tone of voice you know the content of what said you can you you really there's so much information there that's not like you know mathem iCal data but there's so much information that you're getting from actually listening to um these families and and listening to the people who see this stuff you know for the first time or or listening to their struggles with how do I make sense of this because that's that's that's really what I I'm uh the kind of contact I get

all the time from these families is I you know I don't know what to make of this and they're relieved that their their child isn't the only one so I mean I'm a documentary filmmaker by trade and I've had I've created uh five feature films but I will tell you I felt bashful when I started working on something that had to do with telepathy I mean my dad I remember saying something along the lines of like your hard-earned career and reputation are going to be you know scattered to the wind it felt it felt

hard to talk about to people to clients you know I also direct commercials and stuff and uh my mother-in-law is you know at the time I started making it was you know lives on a sheep farm in rural Minnesota and just all these people were like oh has Kai kind of got off the deep end here and that's why to me it was like just the word telepathy you can't reduce it to fact or fiction let's go look at the stories of these people the science behind this this is so much bigger than our knee-jerk reactions of truth I just spoke to Dr Diane Powell and in fact we've been in

touch for like a year year and a half or something and I've always found her just to be this amazing woman and she's just a a an impressive combination of extremely open-minded but also extremely rigorous yeah and so H did you how did you get in touch with her you did you you heard her on a podcast is that right it unfolded by me hearing her on a podcast about um about her research that she'd been doing today I'm here with Diane Powell and we will be uh focusing

on her research on some autistic savants with telepathic ability and I thought that was fascinating and I wanted to get on the phone and learn more and went out to visit her and you know uh one of the first things I you know asked of her was can you pull up some emails and obviously not share names but like tell me some of the things that people are saying when they write to you and that was a very convincing first step for me to witness is that you know this wasn't just something she was talking about or

she studied in a few one-offs I mean her email box was filled of parents reaching out saying saying I'm finding that my child can read my thoughts this seems impossible we've tested it at home I have no framework for this can you explain what is happening and it was a confusion and a wonderment and sometimes a desperate desperation coming from these parents to understand what was going on and they don't know each other they are very siloed and that was the first moment where I thought okay there's something very big here so how does one go from a traditional academic

background to studying on itic children who have high extra sensory perception abilities I learned about autism and Savant back in 1986 because I met Oliver sax then so Oliver sax was a neurologist who wrote um he wrote a lot of different books one of the books he wrote was Awakenings you know about people that had Parkinson's and were given elopa for the first time and all of a sudden they went from being like frozen statues to

suddenly you know moving and there was a movie made about that and he was somebody that would study these quirky sort of syndromes that uh told you something about the brain one of the case reports were about these twins who are institutionalized who were autistic who played a game in which they would say prime numbers back and forth to one another and they'd be consecutive prime numbers they would be six digits long and there's no algorithm

for that that and they just knew these prime numbers and not only did they know them they said they just saw them I am thrilled to partner with my Heritage to dive into my family's past it's been an eye-opening experience using my Heritage I started building my family tree by adding names dates and even a photo within minutes I was connected to over 20 billion historical records uncovering stories I had no idea existed for example my great-grandfather Nathan White was a World War I veteran who got

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enough start your 14-day free trial today using the link in the description or pinned comment trust me it's an experience you won't forget for so many of these families they are told by the doctors when their child is born and is diagnosed with you know non-speaking often severe autism that they won't comprehend the world around them they'll never be able to communicate they probably won't process information beyond that of a toddler and so parents are taken given you know all hope is taken away and they go through this journey often not even trying to reach

their child because they've been told by all the quote unquote experts that their kid isn't in there and what I found really early on were two families both me and another girl Amelia who appears in episode 7 that when the parents were homeschooling with covid and they had to spend off like tons of time with their child all of a sudden their child started spelling on iPads doing things they weren't ever doing in school yeah and that's what happened with me and then when she started communicating at one point she then she started having a diary and in her diary she said I can

read my parents Minds she wrote in her diary that she can read everybody's mind but you have to believe in her for her to do it well they thought well that's impossible so her mom asked a few questions like what you know what am what am I thinking of right now and you know Mia spelled purple umbrella or something or her dad wrote A P drew a picture and what I draw a picture of and she wrote dog and that was correct so then they started doing more t tests and taking books off the wall opening to a page on the book um page of the book and

what am I reading and she would spell it out what what am I looking at in the book and she'd spell it out and that's when they started doing blindfolded popsicle tests with her where they'd have piles and she'd put popsicle sticks so they took a bunch of videos of this stuff sent it to Diane sent it to me to kind of preet it and it was absolutely unbelievable and they were as concerned and confused as any parent would be um yeah to the point you know they were deeply Catholic they live in Monterey Mexico and and they were worried what

our neighbors going to feel is this evil is this it you know there's all these funny things that get put on telepathy not what I've learned through making this as what the non-speakers would say is this is a spiritual gift from God that is I think what every single one would say um and and us you know humans in this 3D world trying to map it out for so long have been like this is the work of something dark and it couldn't be that couldn't be further from the truth a agreed and uh and so you she's sending you videos and you say I want I

want to see this for myself and so you put them up uh in a place in Glendale and you have completely controlled experimental conditions to remove all confounding variables and so tell me if I'm getting this right so MIA is uh you know sitting next to her mother and her mother is looking and Mia is totally blindfolded and then her mother is looking at uh completely random large assortment of images or numbers so be extremely low probability if you were to get it right just on one in one instance

is that correct yeah and if you were to get it right you know over 10 or 20 instances uh the quote unquote P value is what you would call it in science gets to infantes low is that somewhat right or yeah and I just want to say something really quick you know Dr Powell wants to do these really scientific tight tests with Faraday cages and you know get this as tight as can be and we're we're hoping to do that in the film that that has been intentional along these tests I was kind of creating so it was as concrete as I

could make it with like The Limited finances and stuff but I would say yes I think that anyone there would say that we went through every measure I bought even a brand new iPad to make sure it couldn't be influenced I downloaded all the random number generators on on set so we video of that happening we we took down all like said TV mirrors anything reflective um and yeah like we were really we went through pains to make sure that there was a divider when moo was shown a number and that she was blindfolded and then we would take the blindfold Off remove the partition and

as far as the numbers I think we started off small like three numbers and then we did four numbers and then we did five numbers and it would generate 5276 3 or whatever and then she would write it 5276 3 and it was it's not it's like she would never miss you know and um we just cards um some random word generators we would put colored balls inside of a you know a can or something and she'd tell us what color it was we did popsicle stick tests which was beyond telepathy because no one's sending information

then she like there's a bunch of popsicle sticks and she had her mom would hand her random ones to put in a pile and she could see them blind perfect blindfold yeah which you had your skeptical colleague Michael test was like I can't not see anything through this blindfold yeah and that was important to me I mean Michael is a very dear friend and he's my DP in a lot of my work but he he approached this very skeptically yeah I mean more so than even you know like me and and and so I had him test the blindfold you know and

I I mean Michael certainly had his mind blown you can't see this stuff and not have your worldview change forever seen it what are your thought I mean I wouldn't do it as a skeptic I'm generally a skeptic in my life for most things but through seeing this I can't it's hard for me to not believe this stuff I think I'm looking at everything I'm watching her I'm watching the mom I'm watching I'm watching everything and for me in my perspective it's real Michael and any I

think reasonable listener would say unless there's some bizarre Morse code that is developed in a way that's extremely high throughput and you can somehow you know based on like pokes or something you know abstract that out to semantic Concepts like oh you're looking at a a grapefruit on this iPad or something quickly the null hypothesis becomes more Fantastical than the this child is displaying extremely high rates of telepathy yeah and I think that's

important for listeners who haven't listened to the show uh your listeners is that you know so kind of where even where I left off with Mia you know so often these parents are told their kids can't learn which is completely not true non-speakers are brilliant individuals inside of there who just cannot control their body it's a behavior issue not an intelligence one so but learning to spell is meaning learning to control your body it's a gross motor skill to point to letters whereas talking is a fine motor skill and that's why pointing to letters with a letter board is often

a way that unleashes their communication skills however because it creates you have to create new neural Pathways to do that often it takes an often this is really important a lot of non-speakers don't know where their bodies are they don't feel them I've talked to so many parents who said their children didn't even know they had bodies or didn't know they had fingers and they didn't get that until they started communicating right so to to help them spell it often requires touch in the beginning and then you sort of start to lighten the touch or move the touch until there's no touch and in the podcast I use the metaphor of

what my dad taught me how to ride a bike I needed his whole body on me you know helping me and then it was like less body less touch less touch until finally I was riding the bike and um and with Mia you know we went out to dinner that before every time we were on Zoom her mom would have to touch her shoulder or her head to communicate it was just what she needed just the slightest touch help her helped her and now her mom is telling me she can do it without it and that's how most of these kids are some will always need touch but most will graduate to a point where they don't need it once they're they have more body control they feel more sense of where

they are um so MIA when we she was doing these tests had to have one slight touch on her either her shoulder her her head and the idea that like some Morse code was going through there to someone who can't feel their body yeah is ridiculous and when I brought that up to Michael I mean you could just hear his disdain and his laugh of like that's impossible that is grasping us and he came in pretty skeptical he came in very skeptical yeah but you can look at the test it's not like there's something happening the finger I mean how could

you ever convey a number or a random like you said a abstract word through Morse code on a it it's it's impossible but I think it's a great first example because uh she's Beyond Earnest and then the the stats on what she's producing are just remarkable and then you actually go on to control for that variable as far as touch which I think is honestly going the extra mile again maybe even unnecessary but to the extreme skeptic in the audience should satisfy them yeah and I think it's

important to note too that uh Dr Powell got into this because she actually saw there was initially some data around autistic children displaying you know High Clairvoyance or or telepathy and uh studies even prior to her yeah and so there is a body of work I mean psychical Studies have been going on since the 1870s the Society of psychical research you had uh you know um uh uh Frederick Myers you had William James um you have this is a long history yeah and there

touched so can never be touched and it was like okay that's unfair but I mean to these poor children and these F poor families you know I didn't even want me as family to hear that they were so want wanting um you know just to be part of this validating process but then the next episode we go to a young man named ail who lives in New Jersey who can do the telepathy with his mom across the room what is this you see I'm not even looking at him yeah I'm just going to put it the away

Focus fix it and one of the um children that I had tested before meeting um Kai and um I met him actually through um his mom contacting me after seeing me um being interviewed by deepo tro and she's Indian and she you know

she's like saw deep ooper interview me and said you know this is she talking about somebody like just like my son and so she she contacted me and I went out and tested her son and um and and then and then later invited you know deac troper to come see it and he was so blown away how can you tell what these words and numbers are because you're not seeing them

h i n d d my mind knows how to show my mom's mind my mind mind knows how to show my mom's mind Ty it's quite amazing akil's mother Manisha kept telling me look this isn't just telepathy this is a shared Consciousness there's some sort of merging that goes on and she was saying things which I couldn't quite understand yet in my process which was she felt you know uh he often will maybe

use my Hardware or my neurology then I thought oh what you know just really wanting to understand and so she kept showing me when I was doing little tests like okay and actually I would I love this because I had the crew write a bunch of random words and I downloaded a random number generator on the spot again random word generator we did all this stuff with aille and Manisha was kind of like come on this is this is like kids stuff like let me show you really what this is and so after I was satisfied with I mean we must have done 100 tests that day she was like okay now

movie of athlete whose leg was amputed and he got into Special Olympics and I went upstairs to tell AK Akil come come look I want to show you the story see how people overcome their difficulties and challenges he said yes I know he doesn't have a have a leg and he is in Olympics because he was watching the show or something because I was watching and he was upstairs so those thoughts can get transferred so she's like is this a

signal of Consciousness that we're both sharing is he stepping into my own Consciousness or what is that and I don't think there is an answer for that yet except for that is a widespread um thing that the parents are talking about I and yes you got it spelling and the ability to communicate a lot of people might be watching this and saying you keep saying nonverbal how do they communicate at all yeah so um every I think the telepathy and the spiritual gifts I don't know exactly but I will say I think it's a mark of being a

non-speaker I don't think it has as much to do with autism as it does non-speaking autism and with the non-speakers you know again so often the doctors the Educators have had it wrong thinking they're not in there they are they're intellectually as solid as you and me just can't control their bodies and because they can't create Words which which is a fine motor skill it's pointing to letters which is you know there's different techniques for that it started with facilita communication that merged into you know turned into something called rap rapid prompting method now there's spelling to

communicate there's different forms of this of different processes to learn to point to letters and and and you do have to learn to be a communication partner and that's really important um but I found that the the colloquial word for all of it is spelling that's a good umbrella word to talk about all forms of pointing to letters to communicate Y and that can be independently on an iPad or with a letter board and absurdly there is some controversy around this format communication uh what what is Asha and

bigger human rights violation than like you cannot have the means to communicate in your classroom to in a workplace in a social setting but when I was doing a deep dive into this this is fascinating that sign language uhuh it took like 150 years for that to be accepted is that true even in the 70s you weren't it was not encouraged to be to have sign language in school you had the the people who were heart of hearing or deaf were told that they had to learn to read lips or have like you know kind of speakers on their ears hearing aids um

sign language was not accepted what Louis Braille who was a young young boy who kind of you know maybe a pre-teen when he invented Braille he was at the first school for the deaf in Fr in France at the time there had and this was interesting in France and all over the world at the time um I'm sorry blind the the blind Community was seen as not in there not smart all the same thing that n speakers are going through so when Louis Braille was at the first School for the Blind in France he he kind of like um enhances this old

military kind of coding and he came up with this idea for Braille and the when a new Headmaster came into school he was like this is pseudo science this isn't real he locked away all the braille books you can't learn this way and the kids were like no this is really great and they were doing it you know in private but the authorities didn't want Braille to be become a thing and when the kids first tested you know showed the authorities look I will punch out these letters and this one will read it and they kind of proved that Braille is working people in the room watching that

where like it's a magic trick it's a joke wow they obviously practice this in advance yeah and so I was reading this the history of Louis Braille and thinking this is exactly what the non-speakers are going through so it makes you wonder why why have we always the the reigning you know uh communication class has such strict views and restrictions over how someone else can communicate two two two

him was how did you learn all of this do you have really good hearing and he said I'm special and I said oh of course you're special and he said I can hear thoughts and I said I questioned him and I said are you sure you're telling the truth and he said to me you don't get the kind of gifts that I have if you lie so then I asked him a question in my head without speaking and he answered the question that I had asked him in my head then I brought my

son and his friend up to witness it and I had told the young man that was his friend I said kit get a thought in your head and sit there and don't think anything but that and Houston spelled out what that young man was thinking then I called my daughter and she didn't believe me she said no he can't mom I said like send me something so she had her husband tell her um something to text she texted it to me he never saw the text and he spelled out what was on the text I think the Houston story is

incredibly powerful because it's so much later in his his mother is she's amazing and finds RPM at when he's 21 or so or and or or what's the exact story there yeah so you know Katie was a single mom of five you know no help from her ex-husband a pretty brutal guy and and I can't tell you how much how beautiful of a human being Katie is you know but fighting against the world at every turn

um and it was really difficult because Houston had the way his autism was expressing himself I mean he was biting through his hands like down to the muscle at times he was smearing feces on the wall you know and Katie could not get through to him didn't know how to help him and it was years of just a lot of hardship and Trauma and she's working full-time and not getting child support and and it was through I think what she would definitely describe as a series of Miracles of people putting spelling in her path and she initially thought well

you don't know because Houston's probably much more different than your child you're I'm watching your child sit here calmly and spelling and Houston he's a different level ISM well that's not true at all you know I think she pretty much had given up hope on Houston it took me a very long time to give up hope a part of you breaks inside to give up she tried everything nothing was getting through to him and I think it was the day before Thanksgiving when Houston was about 18 Katie had you know come home from working like multiple jobs like shaking she was so tired on the sofa and Houston came and sat down and put his hand on her and he said Mama

and I was shocked cuz I had never ever heard heard my son say my name he was 17 and I opened my eyes and he was looking directly into my eyes which he had also never done and he said I love you and that moment for her was a miracle and she's like wait he's telling me something he is in there or he's knowing how I'm feeling and so then she there was a few examples of spelling that came into her path and then eventually she decided to try it Houston at first when

you're learning to spell it it doesn't come quickly like often you're pointing to like a board that has six letters so it's bigger and more spaced out and then maybe you're answering a question is it this or is it that and they call it getting open on the boards when you first start communicating your own thoughts and for Houston I believe that happened when he was about 21 and then it was amazing because she learned he has rich rich knowledge of American History he loves American history um Rich knowledge of so much um and I mean

Houston's knowledge is phenomenal and what I've learned from Kaden Houston's story has been paradig shifting throughout but you know even just little things like I never understood why people thought like crystals and rocks had magic in them to me I was like this is a cute thing we do as humans but and I couldn't dismiss it but I just didn't get it I didn't believe that and Katie certainly did not either and then one day after like a you know massage or something Katie brought home a bunch of like a bag of rocks and crystals they were behind like her bedroom door her bathroom door and Houston comes home and

like knocks through all doors and finds the rocks and crystals Houston started shouting Stones Stones stones and he wouldn't stop and so I just was like here take them I mean I didn't know what to do with them so anyway I went into his room a little bit later and he had lined these three stones up on his bedside table on the very edge and he was lying on the very edge of his bed as close as he could get to these Stones he felt the energy coming from them and he

could name which each one was and felt the frequency of each and he started spelling when you're autistic you're a magnet for all energy good and bad these stones have good energy I need more good energy and you know Katie has other stories of coming home and buying like crystals for a I think it was her son-in-law hiding like Dice reden and Dragons or something and like Houston like came home from school and found those cuz he could like hear them or feel them energy and stuff like that made me realize okay

so if I just missed telepathy and that's real and I just missed the power of crystals and that's real what else have we dismiss that we we think of woooo or you know this Airy Fairy stuff and it's and it's true I want to uh stick with with Houston who's who's so remarkable so he he lives uh in Atlanta right and there's kind of a cohort in in Atlanta uh you want to talk about Houston's friends and where they hang out yeah and I want to say I think these cohorts are everywhere it was just you know through

um through Katie and Houston um I was led into this Atlanta cohort you know but but there's cohorts everywhere so that's and but one of the most beautiful unbelievable things um that first it started with aille and that's apparent in episode two where he says he said every non-speaker has this gift and I kind of thought wow well that's a quite a statement you know but then I went to go meet Katie in Houston that's an episode 3 and Houston repeats that every non-speaker has this gift and revealed

school he'll do this and he and he says he's on the hill and I've learned about it now that he's communicating with the letter board and he's really formed relationships there and she's like in fact um like there was a young man his name is zahari and he he's he was born blind in an orphanage and was adopted you know later in life and whatever but zahari bom was bringing zahari to Georgia he'd never met John Paul but when zahari walked into the house he's like hey John Paul blah they had this whole relationship and they said it had been built on the hill wow and so and I

say this in the series it took me a long time to form my opinion or understanding of the hill and I don't want to say belief in it but like a like like maybe it was a belief in it it was just so hard to believe you know and and then there's so many people from from desp places talking about the hill it one was a minister I met at a mega church um uh I didn't meet him in person but I talked to on the phone and his name is Joe and he was saying that some of his uh kids in his youth group were talking about

the hill he runs like a special needs youth group um and would talk they'd put they'd set them up with like other non-speakers in other places and the kids would talk about the hill you know and then I met a teacher in Chicago and her kids were talking about the hill and it's just phenomenal and then Arthur golden who's a dear advisor and has been such a help on this whole project as well and he's got a non-speaking son Ben golden and they live in an very Ultra Orthodox community in Israel they have their own Hill wow and I've heard of

hills in Arizona Florida so I don't think there's just one yeah um and that's one thing I want to understand and I I I will seek that question with The non-speaker Advisory Board and further in the film is the hill just this part of this Collective Consciousness where we can all hang out is it like a separate place that you can go to yeah to share ideas how many Hills are there or is it just all one Hill but you just find each other like if you go to party or at different parts of the room you know but you're in the same place have you and Dr Powell done any tests when it comes to

information transmission remotely on this kind of Hill that well that's what we want to do so that's we're kind of coming up with our list of dream tests for the film project and her storyline in the film I want to culminate with these tests right and and one will be the telepathic you know message sending um in a controlled way behind partitions and with blindfolds and the other would be having two or three uh non-speakers in different locations to communicate together um via the hill and try to

validate what each is coming back with and saying what you just said about Houston kind of uh just reminded me of this amazing story that you tell of Josiah do you want to tell this this story of Josiah and Max Davis yeah yeah that's incredible um yeah and he's got book Josiah's fire so that's another really good one um but Max Davis is an author and um and Josiah's mom started working on a book so this is like forget just pocket max Davis for a second so uh Josiah's mom

when Josiah started spelling was absolutely floored by the amount of spiritual messages he was saying his first ever independent sentence was the most mindblowing miraculous thing because he had not spelled anything beyond three to five letter words so what was his first sentence God is a good Gift Giver he was saying that you know he communic came with angels He said he was going to heaven how do you know that and he spells Au and I'm thinking he's going to spell autism or something he goes on to spell a u n t i

e Auntie told an angel to tell me auntie was my great aunt and she died at age 89 Josiah as far as I know had never heard us talk of Auntie he wouldn't have known Auntie he wouldn't have seen pictures of Auntie how did he know Auntie he knew things about a past relative Auntie that you know and was communicating for Auntie and this was just unbelievable and when and they had never told them about Auntie right no uhuh no so again

it was just unbelievable messages that there's no way Josiah should know and I think at the time he was seven or eight and you know again the parents are not taking this as face value they're trying to figure out this mystery as well and trying to prove it and validate it and like what are they talking about and here's a picture and who's this you know that type of stuff so and again before the telepathy tapes came out I think that many of these parents were living in their own Silo thinking they were unique in this experience so she talked to Josiah spelling communication teacher and said you know he's talking about going to heaven and seeing angels and communicating with spirits who fast and

and the teacher was like that's his special interest you know go on you know and and the mom you know uh uh t was thinking this is not a special interest this is something very big so she writes a book to to put this out there is there anyone else out there experiencing this and of course she's flooded with people saying yes this is our story well anyway in the very precursor of writing this book she was working with a you know kind of a ghost writer and um she's on the call with the ghost writer one day and the the writer you know said something about another author she was working with Max Davis and Josiah comes

home for school later on that day and he starts spelling something very found about somebody I have no clue who he's even talking about and then all of a sudden he uses this phrase that links back to the conversation that I was having earlier with Cheryl about this guy Max he writes all this stuff about Max like he's a major novel writer he doesn't write like other people do he was talking about how his house was

popping popping popping and then he says are you a barn man Max like there's animals or there's a Farm by you well the writer goes and tells Max and Max is really weirded out because the things are on point it was about what was happening in his house like this popping noise and he was building a house it was about being close to animals and like does he live on a farm or is there a barn nearby and it turns out that you know yes there is like a barn right next to his property with tons of animals on it I'm thinking this lady's Looney she's

trying to get something from me it actually made her cry cuz I'm a skeptic so that's how it began bothers Max because he's going what how does this person know this because they were building a new house and it was popping popping popping they were using the nail guns he goes to a motel and it's like y you love your Motel time or something and he takes a nap it's like a nap is nice and then something about the like

mixtape and he listens to the mix and stuff and Josiah wrote something about your music is being banded together you love your sacred time at the motel that's right and and Max by this point is like oh my gosh and then another time he's behind on a deadline for a book he's writing he stays home he takes a nap and he begged his wife to miss all the appointments for the day and work with him and anyway he takes a nap he stays up really light late and he gets this entire uh chapter called first fruits out that's right and then Josiah writes the next day you know I hope your

nap was nice um your hands were like uh night Braille on you know something like that like the spirit of night Braille on your fingertips kept you through the night and uh you got I hope first fruits something things like he knew all the facts and I don't have the quote in front of me so I'm I'm butchering what he said but the point is he knew about the nap he knew about the name of without Max having any communication no no you know and Josiah was a a pretty young you know he was a boy at the time yeah and um and so no like these things were happening privately with Max no one

knew and then Josiah knew and you know we beautiful part of the story that I didn't put into the podcast um just because there's the length you have you have to edit some stuff but you know Max went to go visit Josiah at some point and I think he was a little um you know like it was a good Awakening for him because Josiah like didn't want to come up his room you know he was having difficulty regulating he was having a very hard time spelling that day he was probably excited but Max really had this realization of how difficult it is to um

to control often you know your body as as a as a um non-speaker I want to talk about John Paul uh who befriends Houston and I think is the most moving part of this whole story uh he's this gentle giant do you want to talk about John Paul JP yeah I mean John Paul he he was he such a presence you know gigantic 68 um I think when I met John Paul he was 14 or

15 and yeah he was like a younger brother to Houston you know um John Paul made a lot of loud noises you know he was just this big guy he loved putting stuff in his head and like dropping it off and you know it just funny I mean he was oh gosh and so and John Paul's mother just loves him so unconditionally and it was so beautiful to be in their home cuz John Paul would often strip off his clothes and just appear and I think so many of us when we're going through the world are constantly apologizing for

other people and you know hou and and Libby just never she just embraced John Paul like there he is John Paul put on your clothes like you know this is our house you're just getting used to that like I loved it because it was just this like unbelievable Joy wrapped of like I just accept him I love him for exactly who he is and and I looked at Lian and I was like gosh I I want and all these parents actually just like they're such a great template of how to love your children so many of us don't love our kids unconditionally but I think all these parents do in a different way than

most of us can imagine um and I don't know if I should say what happens to John Paul on this because I don't know if I should I I I want people to watch yes which which episode it's a nine the kind of like I would say my finale like how I concluded the story was with with episode 9 and that has deeply to do with John Paul and I think through John Paul for me that was proof of afterlife yes in the most profound beautiful way that and and my dad who was a huge skeptic

plane I was I was listening to it and it was just so profound and moving and it'll make anybody Yeah question um you know our conception of of of of life and reality and uh yeah just go listen to it so John Paul uh has a girlfriend and they have this beautiful Bond and uh it's almost like you know if you watch Love on the Spectrum other that that's that's so refreshing because it's this like just there's no BS there's no

deception no no gamesmanship between these relationships I feel like John Paul and Lily and these non-verbal kids take it to the next level where they say that they're kind of telepathic Bond increases their their love for each other yeah for sure I mean can you imagine like sharing everything everything about one another telepathically and I remember asking Libby once cuz she said you know what they go on dates or I'll pick them up here and they'll go on a date and I said what do that look like and she's like well often they'll be on different floors of the house and but they're

communicating they're doing something and then when and then when they leave John Paul will be like that was the best day ever and and and I thought that was just so sweet mean they he adores Lily Lily adors Paul I mean their love was real and it was enhanced deeply by you know being on the hill and being able to have mind to- mind communication and you know Lily's in the in the in the season and you know she says that that was from the gecko their mind to- mind communication JP uh you know is this

amazing uh character he's sort of uh Larger than Life and he's also very you know big big uh uh kid who's described in the telepathy tapes and he has a girlfriend named Lily and he seems like this just very sweet loving character and he's friends with this other guy named Houston and they all meet up on the hill um can you talk a little bit about JP because I I find his story to be possibly the most touching uh just from a personal perspective oh yeah well I mean yeah he was larger than life I

think he was like 6'8 mhm and um and he liked there was this game he liked to play where he loved to you like I I drink a lot of water you know and I had you know he loves to grab he'd love to grab your bottle of water and put it on his head and then drop it on character uh and he um had twin brother who um not an identical twin brother his neurotypical and um and his mother is a

speech language therapist wow who you know was basically told um I mean this is like what she's doing being was doing with her son was like forbidden you know it's like you know because you know the people that Asha you know this the speech therapist Association basically says that you know spelling is you know an RPM you know these different methods that use you know pointing to letters as a you know considered a form of communication that you know that it's

not recognized why is that it's so absurd why is it not recognized I'm the wrong person to ask I mean I could it's political yeah it it's I mean if a kid is being is able to point at letters and spell something out why is that not seen as a valid form of communication especially if cogent sentences are coming out on the other side of that you know it really it really um it really surprised me that it really is cont that that's controversial and I mean it really

saddens me too of course yeah you're you're kind of putting a child back in cage of isolation without these techniques yeah yeah yeah and um but yes it's it's really um if you were to go to um you know go to the internet you know look up you know spelling spelling to Communicator look at what you know it says in Wikipedia or whatever and you'll say that you know something along the lines that it's pseudoscience you know it you know you'll you you'll you'll see those kinds of remarks you know that

it's attacked and so it's like wow if they're gonna and this is part of why I also have been doing my own thing without being as public about it you know uh until more recently is that it's like if boy if they're going to attack that even that's then then you know boy what are they going to think about the rest of all this right the actual telepathic communication yeah if they're going to attack just the communication ability I mean I just don't understand how you can dispute something where

somebody is clearly expressing things that like mean something in reality and serve you know certain objectives whether it's like I'm thirsty get me water or you know whatever the second that that becomes like this you know clearly adaptive useful form of communication how do you write that off especially when you're talking about a kid who is silenced otherwise as far as their ability to interface with the real world or with our real world you know like that it's just it seems uh inhumane

well it does and and so and and one of the problems is is that some of the people who've been the most against the the idea of telepathy coming out have been people who are part of the spelling community and and and so it's it's one of those things where you'll never you know whoever it is you'll never you'll never um make progress in advocating for your rights if people are able to divide

you so anyway but so so John Paul though um you know good friends with Houston and you know and the two of them have this telepathic communication with one another they they live in Atlanta and and John Paula has a girlfriend you know named Lily you know and um and so and and seeing the love that these kids have towards their parents and that their parents have towards WS them is

incredibly you know touch it you know it just touches your heart really does it and it's coming across in the podcast you you can only imagine how it comes across in you know you know when you've got you know the whole you know experience of it you know not just that hearing the voices I think uh you know like a governor that you would place on an engine I feel like a governor has been placed on reality and like that's coming off and I think what you get in

its place is it's almost like a a Hydra situation you cut off one head you get five others and or a Cambrian explosion of ideas and possibilities and so I think people assume that you know when you when you get into a new paradigm or something like one thing changes but no I mean everything changes and this makes total sense I mean it's fascinating to see how energetically sensitive these kids are in Houston being a great example doesn't he go to like Stone Mountain or something as well which he

loves because of the the energy there yeah yeah and we hiked up Stone Mountain when we were in Atlanta even Dr Powell came with like we all hiked up Stone Mountain and Houston gets the top of Stone Mountain and is just so free and you can feel like he's feeling all this energy which made me think this non-speakers Center that we create maybe should go on top of a mountain you know um but no he feels so much and and I think what most of the parents would say and the non-speakers would say as well is that it has to do with them being

less tied to their body they're less less bound to the physical world than us and so they're more open to the things that I think are natural they're not Supernatural they're what surround us but they have more an easier access to it I couldn't agree more and it's funny in virtual reality and in lucid dreaming which you could think of as its own sort of weird simulation seeing your hands is this like really important test for your ability to embody in the the bound

simulation and so they often feel a little disembodied or like they don't they're not quite you know sensing their own bodies yeah and I think the normal you know conventional view is oh that's handicapped but in fact there's a a filtering or reduction going on on a greater understanding when you are embodied and when you are in the simulation and so being able to dip out of that simulation is a profound amazing skill and if you look at the history of

humanity there's a great book called The immortality Key by this guy Brian mirescu and he talks about these mystery rituals that everybody would you know undergo and um it's sort of the the tempor the temporary paralysis of the physical body in order to you know reach your primordial spirit and know that there is something more here and it feels like these kids know that in a way that is uh so much more like you know real true knowledge

nosis if you will than like the average person kind of walking around and that brings up this book which you were so nice to give me and and and and I'm just so honored to have and this is Katie and and Houston and it's the book of heaven and uh and they signed it for me which was so sweet of them and it re it really feels like um they have a con conviction in in metaphysics that we just relegate to mythology we just we call these things sort of myths that you know maybe

that you go to church or you go to synagogue or whatever and you you know um or or a mosque and you you go through the motions or whatever you don't really believe that there's something there they know that there's there's something there yeah yeah and I would say that's true of every everyone who's working in an intimate way with a a non-speaker at least that I've met I can't obviously have a huge BRD brush but every single person I've met with and hundreds and hundreds of people emailing now with their stories is that to to work intimately with a non-speaker is to be

able to beautifully see the worlds they can access the Realms they can access which me saying something like that two years ago would have made me laugh out loud that I'd be on an interview talking Realms they can access Realms that we can't access they can see beings that we can't whether you know I think some will call Divine beings some will call them light beings some will call them Angels and and certainly spirits of those who have passed that is often as common or

comes before the telepathy knowledge and all of that stuff was of course Paradigm shattering I mean I'm a non-fiction documentary filmmaker that was absolutely what is happening you know I I there was like a lot of shots of whiskey along the way lots lots of books just okay now I have to read and read and read and read and read this and it's it's real it's real it is happening and what's so beautiful is you can't that's why like if someone now I talk about this I was so bashful like I

said in the beginning talking about this and now if I'm talking about it and someone's skeptical or doesn't believe it I'm just kind of like oh you're just like a flat earther you know you're stuck in the old Paradigm bless your heart you know and and I I I really do feel that way once there's so some people living right now that see how much more there is and and I love that the non-speakers these unbelievable people who've been dismissed and marginalized and cast aside are our guides in this and I think

that's the most beautiful thing um and and and and because their message is one of love and one of unity yes and it's so beautiful to me because it comes back to if we look into Antiquity of a lot of our religions and faiths and all of that comes back to love and unity and and again like you said you kind of just like go to church you go to synagogue you go to you know mosque and you're like oh love like how many people actually believe in love and unity or practice it in some way you know and at the end of the day that's all that I've

heard the spellers want to talk about is is love and unity and and even this was really profound and I'm still getting to grips with this so often they'd say you know it's not just your thoughts we hear it's your feelings that we feel and all the feelings that you put out to the world are being received and like made manifest yeah and one speller and this is going to be in episode 10 even said if you don't know what your feelings are and you can't process them like often we're doing that work for you and that

non-speakers as they say but also feeling our feelings I mean of course that would dis regulate a human being to totally and this so comports with I mean like Gabor mate's work or like you know basically anybody would Inuit it as far as like a a parent you know a kid relationship where you do immediately just absorb your parents energy and it's fascinating to hear that explicitly

articulated because I think anybody listening will latently kind of know that like you are uh kind of embodying a lot of your earliest experiences and you can kind of synthesize this scientifically with like the harlo monkey test or whatever where you know if the mother isn't present and there isn't that you know the necessary kind of tactile kinesthetic you know touch uh you know that can have profoundly bad effects um and so it just sounds like like they're on another level of

sensitivity to this and it makes sense right because our communication you know it's it's praic to say that most human communication is a 95% subl linguistic body language or whatever and there's probably opportunity cost in the language itself yeah and language allows for deception it allows for myth making and all sorts of Confusion And if you're just cutting that out and you're going straight to the source that feels like the the truee language is thing I'll say is there's there are apparently nonverbal tribes in the Amazon do are

you aware of this yeah and they they experience very similar things and they even call it the ancient language where they beam information to each other and sometimes they'll have language on top of that but they'll go back to the ancient language and and that's like the low latency real communication yeah I mean even in the in in the show the telepathy tapes there's a young man Asher who who was a verbal autist he had words and he eventually decided not to use them because they were cumbersome and

difficult and so many will say like will actually write about letters like our obsession with using letters and like words and and they are dishonest how many times when when someone says how are you would you answer that completely disly I mean like 80% of the time you know and so it's like if you can just Kyle who's a wonderful man in um and a non-speaker in England like at some point conveyed that or me his mother did that if if you say the word you know Thanksgiving or Christmas or something to someone you say a word but if Kyle

sends that message to you telepathically you receive the smells and the feelings and the music and the love and the family and the taste of the food and the decorations you receive all of it it's a knowing like you said a complete knowing and when I've talked to the non-speakers about like what you know again I'm going through the episode 10 right now which is what they want us to do with this knowledge I mean so many of them are like if you guys could all kind of get to this telepathic place that' be great really evolve us and you know um I think we are all capable of it because there's glimpses where we've had it right where

you know someone is sick and you or you're thinking about someone right before they call we know it's there who Amelia um so she's this she's this little girl who lives in Wisconsin whose um mother contacted me and um and she had taken her daughter to the um you know the the tord center there you know because that's where darl trefford who um was you know the the person who was consultant on Rainman I mean that's

you know that's you know where he was and that's was his Center and so i' take her daughter there to be evaluated because she has all of these different abilities you know different you know knowing different languages knowing you know and she's in addition to being you know telepathic with her mother and um and she's one of the she's one of the girls who said that she related to a unicorn and she you know wrote this story about how she um how she was an you know she called it an ugly horse you

know that people thought weren wasn't smart you know um and and said that you know that she was a unicorn oh man then she's probably talking about her self-perception based on what other people sort of think of her when in fact she she is this beautiful amazing unicorn but yeah she's this yeah she's this beautiful amazing child and yet at the time she wrote that poem her self-esteem was affected because she perceives what other people's impressions are about her I mean you

know that that's the downside of being so psychic is that you you you are injured even when people aren't saying anything by virtue of them thinking things about you that's so amazing yeah because you just you know their conception of you without even that needing to be articulated exactly so people can think oh well I treat you know people who are disabled you know with respect or this or that

but they they're just thinking of their outward behavior and they they don't they don't realize that these these children pick up on what you you know really think tell us about Amelia because I find her to be fascinating and maybe among the most conventionally regarded as just academically gifted of all of these examples yeah I mean Amilia is little still she's 10 you know and and I I I I love all these moms so I'm

going to say this about every single mom but you know I love her mom MOA and and she felt really um familiar to me because you know I'm from the Midwest I I only moved from Chicago to Los Angeles about six years ago and you know they're Midwestern you know they're located the Midwest and her mom emel's mom works in copywriting and an ad agency and the dad's former military you know they just felt like very like yes like I understand you very much you feel like my brothers and sisters and friends from high school and you know when marrow was kind of first starting to understand that Amelia was in there again it was

related to co she was at home with Co she saw I mean not with Co they home during Co homeschooling and she discovered that Amelia was in there and could spell and then that she could read her mind and then that she was seeing stuff that that Mora the mother couldn't see she could see spirits and ghosts and then she started saying that she knew other languages and she could identify hieroglyphics and knew Hebrew and Portuguese and Spanish and so remarkable yeah Ali showed Amelia some Hebrew and Amelia Read It and translated it so Ally

showed her again today and Amelia typed out what it meant I said but who taught you Hebrew and she typed the rabbi then I asked if there was anything else she could read she wrote hyro I said hieroglyphics and she wrote yes pictures so Ally pulled up a few letters and we showed them to Amelia and she knew what letters they were written in hieroglyphics and they were ones that they hadn't looked up the meaning of yet they just pulled them up and identified them after Ally asked her if she saw these letters before if it was the first time and she wrote first time I asked

her who told her about hieroglyphics and she said the God told the hieroglyphics part I know like that if if anything shows that there's another epistemic pathway way of knowing than just like reading a book like the kind of inductive like H it's going to take like two years to like learn Baseline Spanish or whatever Amelia is the perfect example well and one thing I love about Amelia and Mora and I I mean all the parents get this we all understand the layers of Skeptics that are going to be

out there and how you need to prove it by or validate it at least by having other people witness it and what's beautiful in all these stories many many many many people witness it what I love in Amelia's case is the school her teachers her therapists the principal all witness this all have experienced this all know it and it wasn't the mother Mora there when she was talking about hieroglyphics it was her you know I think it was like her spelling therapist and her babysitter or something I don't remember the exact people in the room right at this moment but it was two people and they they know about the mind reading so they're being

very careful of like Okay show her hieroglyphic image that we don't know what it is cu otherwise she'll pluck it from her mind instead of just proving that she knows it and these are the gymnastics that the families and the teachers and now I am also doing with the kids is of or I don't want to say the kids the non-speakers is often it's like wait do they know that or are they picking up for my mind so you got to clear your mind or not know what you're showing them so they did that with hieroglyphics and sure enough she would say what each one was and then they'd look it up and it was what she said it was so how do you make sense of that

unless there's more going on there's definitely more more going on she attributes it to the gods at times teaching her or her Rabbi she's talked about a rabbi wow she's talked about God she said she said an angel has taken her to see God she said Gods once or twice um uh in in one point I think she talked about the doy Lama as well so just this beautiful you know like like group of

traditional spiritual leaders and Prophets if you will I I need to get uh into that classroom that that's the best group of teachers you could that's amazing yeah yeah and and and like I said she's not the only one that will say those messages and again like the first time you know Amelia said it I mean Mora and I her mom and I would like be zooming and talking on the phone a lot and we'd be like what does that mean like do you think she meant that or what I mean just we're both trying to process

it too yeah and what's so beautiful about Mora is she she was saying she's like you know I don't go to church that often I didn't take AIA to church it's not like she's getting this from us you know or the or the synagogue or you know a Buddhist temple it's like where was is coming from yeah I can imagine this whole experience of the telepathy tapes coming out as cathartic for you because you've probably spent a lot of your career trying to get off home plate as far as scientific consensus even taking seriously and now there's just you know

all these different Avenues you can explore as far as the implications and getting deeper as far as you know causal mechanisms for how this stuff works uh whereas before it was probably just like hey guys this is real like look over here yeah yeah exactly exactly it's amazing and I I want to make something very clear as well for the audience uh we're practically anonymizing these kids and families we're just using first names there's no 15 seconds of Fame

motive here none of them have been paid is that right of course not no so it's like and then you have in Amelia's case like her Spanish teacher is like yeah I don't know what to say she knows more Spanish than my kids yeah and so yeah it's it's just remarkable and uh yeah just I do think it's important for the average listener to just know that there's no incentive whatsoever being provided for these kid it's really about allowing their voices to be heard yeah I mean I think the families and I have a

few deeply shared goals and I mean I have these goals because they do right and one is for the world to presume competence you see a non-speaker you can say hi to them and it can be in your mind too hey I know you're in there like great shoes whatever it doesn't matter just treat them as you would someone else you know presume competence let's validate spelling and get into schools this is not pseudo science it's complicated there's a beautiful I think spiritual element to it I think that when you understand what the non-speakers are capable of and they might dip into our neurology or they

might even use their parents' eyes that stuff does make spelling complex and fascinating and interesting it doesn't mean it should be disregarded it means we have to meet the spellers where they're at and let them communicate and I think the third is the paradigm shift is that we are not acting as we should be as human beings we need to be meeting each other with love and acceptance and unity and those aren't just silly words and I I I think what I what I have learned from them is to understand that your Consciousness survives death and um

and our thoughts and our feelings become manifest in this world and if we can control those things how much will change the earth in which we're living we are fully audited at all times by whatever communication modality we're talking about right now and if we were to really not just you know clean up our our room make our bed but like look inside yeah I think everybody would say they have work to do and I think that would make us a lot more uh compassionate and forgiving yeah when it

comes to other people because everybody's got stuff they've got to they've got to work through and it's so interesting and ironic that we call many of these kids you know disabled or or different than when in fact on that Dimension which is probably the most important Dimension they're like way more advanced than all of us right no we have the disability that's right yeah it's so amazing and it brings up all sorts of questions that you kind of discuss in episode one and two as well is like how is this happening what

case they have a particular connection with one of the parents where it's almost this low latency mind meld yeah and so yeah do you want to speak to that yeah I do you know because I again like as important as the studies are for Skeptics and stuff like that the stuff that really moved me to the point of completely cracking up in my Paradigm uh was hearing what the parents would talk about so one of the things that Manisha talked about was look this isn't again just sending information I could be

watching a movie upstairs and he could be or downstairs and he could be in a whole another room of the house you know playing on his iPad can't hear anything and I could come back up and he'll tell me exactly what happened in this movie or she said or I could be reading a book and S you read book silently to yourself and she would ask ail later a question about what she' just read in the book and he could answer correctly like where does this character live and he'd write you know San Diego or whatever and and or she'd say you know I could be away at school he'd be at school and I'd go run

errands and I'd come home or he'd come home from school and he'd say you know how was Target how was Walmart why didn't you get the chocolate at Trader Joe's or whatever so he would know exactly what she did and so that's where it becomes more than just telepathy it's some sort of beautiful merging and I just can't emphasize enough that for these parents who have been had their hope shattered were told that they would never connect with their child their child wasn't in there Beyond learning that they're in there that they're intelligent that the the greatest gift

is that their connection is so much more profound than any of us could ever imagine totally and I think the greatest loss for so many people when they're when they have a child with autism is this fear will I ever have this like loving sweet bond with my child and yeah quite the contrary yeah yeah yeah and it it almost feels like um an extreme version or a at the limit version of just a general connection that you know kids have with their parents often like

uh rert sheldrake who is uh very well uh uh displayed in in the telepathy tapes and who's a friend of mine and an amazing scientist um he uh talks about you know kids knowing when their parents are near and this sort of Mind meld connection occurring in statistically significant ways I think a lot of the issue in the past with parasytes are weak and so what I think is so fascinating about the telepathy tapes is you have uh Dr Diane Powell

saying this is often n usually 90% plus hit rates that's really hard to argue with it kind of shatters you know any skeptic kind of coming in and um yeah I find that fascinating and I I think because of this we might see a really cool kind of epistemological Paradigm Shift like term been my goal the whole time you know is to shift the Paradigm but but this is one of I I sometimes look at the Paradox here as a beautiful Paradox and the Paradox is that testing

non-speaking individuals that have a very difficult time um controlling their bodies and you know often are um experiencing you know high levels of autumn somewh you might not want to be out of your comfort zone and it's hard to travel and noise can be tricky and so the idea of taking a non-speaking individual and throwing him in a par Faraday cage and like do your thing is different than someone else and Dr Dian Dr Paul and I have had so many conversations about this which is how do

we create a comfortable loving yes situation to test this that is completely airtight but where it won't be bright lights and overwhelming inputs and new inputs where they'll feel safe and secure enough and so when we've talked about trying to fundraise for this next phase of research that will be in the film I was like we got to like if we go to UVA great but like can we put down carpets and bring in yes crystals and candles and sofas and things their blankets and everything that makes them

feel safe because it's it's you know and and there is then the Paradox I'm getting too is when you talk to the speakers they don't get why you need the proof this is just this is just this beautiful gift I have this is what this is and um and why do you need your instruments to know it exists and I I I love that because it's like I don't need instruments to know it exists I don't think any of the parents or anyone in this world the teachers there's so many teachers and therapists no one needs instruments you see it because we are instruments right human beings are we

are showing you what we can do as human beings and I think there's this darling again like material real IST view of like but we must measure it and we must blah blah fine I think we'll do it and I think we're going to find the right Pairs and get them in the right situation to give that proof but I hope with this podcast we can realize the proof is of often and just the person sitting across from you you know absolutely and I think in many ways we were talking about this earlier we have more to learn from them than they from us like they are they've moved on

they're in the next sort of Paradigm and they're sort of bringing us along with them and I think if we apply this uh materialist view of like we must immediately instrumentalize the part we can isolate into a technology and like they are you know part of the instruments that is a horrible way to look at this yeah um and so I'm totally with you and to the extent we can um get you the resources you need to to build this sort of Institute that maybe even as a a first thing allows them to just

feel heard and happy and like have a community and then incidentally you know we can we can learn more about the world as a result that would be a beautiful kind of kind of goal yeah just go listen to it yeah and and you know in episode 92 there's a a neurotypical woman who has a head injury that is able to touch the space that non-speakers can touch and I think that's we see that often with there's a choir ton syndrome right where someone has a horrible head injury and can suddenly play music do math see math everywhere um uh paint sculpts I

mean there's really unbelievable things that have happened with severe head injuries how can Neuroscience explain that and and it's ably did it and then there's all these other cases that are like that where people would all of a sudden be a mathematical genius or a musical genius in fact that's part of the vector of how Dr Diane Powell got into this right these Savant like like people like Kim Peak and Rainman where clearly whatever learning is going on there belies some sort of form of cognition or Consciousness that again is

not this kind of multi-year like inductive learning process you're just sort of downloading vast swaths of information well it's interesting to me that often it's emotional or physical trauma that can open you up to these gifts and to these other worldly abilities like let's think about that for a second but then um yeah as far as one thing Dr Powell said to me early on when I was really trying to understand Consciousness and how this all works you know and especially with the head injuries and and Savant skills that come with that um you know she's like I think

of it as like if your brain is like your smartphone right and like every smartphone would had different apps on it but your smartphone it can maybe turn on but it won't be like animated and like come to life without a signal coming from somewhere else and and that made a lot of sense to me and and you know some people will say well why then if you have a head injury won't you be able to talk anymore you won't be able to do this and I think it's the same thing if you think of like a piano and a piano player right like to make music like a piano needs a person it needs a

Consciousness to you know IM it with this beautiful you know artistic you know you know fervor that comes out of it the piano has to have a piano player the piano player has to have the piano it's like our Consciousness and our mind or our soul I'm sorry yeah our soul and our body yeah it made me think that you know that where where does information even reside you know when you have somebody like Kim PE um a lot of people thought he was autistic he he actually had hydris and so he was born with this um

defect in his ability to process the cerebral spinal fluid and so there was pressure that built up in his head and that's why he had a larger head than normal and his head's always tilted like this because it was so heavy he could barely hold it up and in addition to having this big area where his um in in the center of his brain where it's just cerebral spinal fluid his his um his skull bones are slightly separated from one another but most importantly he has no Corpus clome and

that's the bundle of fibers that connect the left and the right Hemisphere and so be so he was somebody who had a very um he didn't have all of the connections that we think of a brain is having and yet here he was somebody who could recite word for word backwards and forwards 12,000 books yeah and that's just part of what he could do right and so it's like where does that information reside you know and I thought you know this this model that Neuroscience had

doesn't make sense for memory because it it's it it's really it it works fine for something like you know um some of the models within Neuroscience work fine like you know like oh you know if you if you hit my knee you know there's this knee-jerk reflex and I can explain that you know using you know my understanding of how the nervous system works very simple um but something like memory we're still trying to figure that out I'm a big fan of this transmission Theory Of Consciousness so like William

James Alis Huxley they would say the mind is probably more like a radio than like it's just like locally producing Consciousness and if you have a radio and it's play say it's playing bal's Four Seasons or something you could take out the capacitor or the battery or mess with the antenna and it would stop playing the music and you could say oh those parts that Hardware is responsible for the music but in fact it's you would have to understand you know electromagnetism to know that it's tapping into a frequency that's playing

this beautiful music I think it's the same with brain injuries where yeah you mess with brok's area and speech gets shut down or you mess with War's area and reading comprehension you know whatever occipital lobe for vision but how that's all Binding Together and playing the Beautiful music theal Four Season of like every everyday life is just uh irreducible and it's we're probably tapping into something while researching radio waves one night I stumbled across this amazing story I had some dental work to be done you know

they put in temporary fillings this is beloved Starlet Lucille Ball sharing a story from around the time of World War II when she had to get several temporary fillings put in the upper and lower parts of her mouth all of a sudden I heard music and I turn looked down to turn off my radio and it wasn't out I turned around looked to see if there's anyone behind me and the music was getting louder and louder and louder I realized it was in my mouth so the next day I mentioned it to at the studio to Buster Keaton and he said uh where what street were you on more Park and I said

yes he said you went by the radio station you picked it up were you got fillings I said yes he said you picked it up on your te you have these stories like you know do you want to tell the Lucille Ball story do you know what I'm thinking of where oh you're talking about with her with her tooth yeah well actually I had a patient like that really yeah yeah I mean they talk about it you know in the telepathy tapes but I had a patient um you know 25 30 years almost 30 years ago who had you know a filling and she was you know getting you

know radio signals off of it and and I and and I knew already knew about that as a psychiatrist cuz I was always looking for explanations for why people have these different phenomenon I already knew there was a case report about that wow and so and so rather than hearing this woman say whatever I just I and thinking oh you know let me give you your antis psychotic I thought you know I read about that so so uh and then when

she had the filling you know T taken out you know it went away and she yeah that's amazing and I think Andre puharich had a similar case where he found some guy who was like working in some metal Sawmill or something and a bunch of you know uh metallic ore got in his teeth and he was hearing it's it's a concept called bone induction right and he was hearing things inside of his head and he wasn't crazy it was just literally it points towards this transmission Theory Of Consciousness the fact that you're able to tap into a radio signal through your teeth and then

that somehow becomes you know something you listen to it's interesting too I wonder if that dobet Tales at all with the um alien abduction phenomena because I was just with an experiencer named Mario Woods who um was at El Ellsworth Air Force Base in South Dakota which is a you know nuclear uh base and you know he had a q clearance and he was guarding these icbms and you know this pretty serious hardcore job and he got abducted by aliens and he was checked by a medical doctor afterwards and they checked his teeth so that always kind of

struck me as like I don't know is there something going on there what do you make of Andre puharich and his program in upst state New York where he took all these kids who seem to have high telepathic sigh powers and they would just Channel and they would talk about the nine and they would uh say all sorts of really interesting ontological cosmological things about how the universe works and it's hard to say you know whether any of this stuff was was

was true but I mean I think your research should at least make us relook at that research and say you know maybe there was some truth to to to that and where do you think you know that research went because Pur rich is this odd character he was at Northwestern and he was kind of tied in with you know MK Ultra like you know CIA brainwashing stuff and so yeah I guess where do you think that all went because there seems to be this big gap between that and like

now we're experiencing this Resurgence and I think you have very indifferent than he did and then the people around him did but yeah what what do you make of all that research oh you know I I'd like to you know know more about it I mean I you know in the sense that um I mean I've looked into some of the stuff you know uh but um I mean a lot of it I mean who knows it you wasn't he funded at least in part by the CIA yes he was yeah and so you know I don't think that it's like accessible you know information um and um you know I've

heard him talk about things like scalar waves yeah you know and extremely low frequency yeah yeah are you familiar with the SC scalar physics and stuff yeah yeah yeah okay what do you think about that I think it's a very interesting idea you know it I mean and there there's a physicist in Germany who who calls himself it's I think it's Constantine M yeah who calls himself like the modern Tesla you know and I've looked into his stuff and think of his

stuff I'm fascinated by this yeah yeah um wait a little context for the audience so scalar physics is this idea that if you actually more Faithfully adhere to the original 21 Maxwell's equations and and in kind of classical electrodynamics not the condensed Vector calculus equations of Oliver heavyside who followed up after Maxwell that that allows for uh this the existence of this new scaler field um where you can get uh

electric and and and magnetic potentials or sorry where you can get scalar and Vector potentials without traditional magnetic and electric Fields present and in this scalar field you get all sorts of exotic wave types outside of your normal transverse herian wave and one of the wave types is called Helio coidal waves and that seems to match up with you know like double helical DNA and so uh Constantine mile is studying these sort of scalar waves in the the context

of like botany and stuff where he'll like make flowers grow in beautiful ways using these scalar longitudinal HELOC coidal waves it's I'm fascinated by it we're going to have to schedule another time to talk we're gon to have to go I think I think you and I could talk for a long time about a lot of things we definitely could yeah yeah we could definitely talk about it yeah but but I really think that I mean it makes it makes sense to me that scaler waves could be involved and and there is

there's more than one instance okay where you have in physics yes uh this the kind of thing my brother and I who's a physicist have talked about a lot and other friends of mine who are physicist you know where what they do is they just they they treat something as though it's null they treat it as though it doesn't exist because it simplifies their formula mhm and you know and and the main thing that they're looking at you know it um it like it works okay MH okay

it so it works okay to just treat it as ozero and they they just drop it off okay and I think that one of those things is you know the you know the the the you know the scaler wave component you know of you know electromagnetism yeah and and and I mean the original equations you know were I mean there were far more of them you know there there was far more complexity there and it's just like H you know we don't need this we don't need that we'll just give you this you know it's amazing and and similar thing for you know the the the

experiment that was proposed to um prove that ether didn't exist yes and Michael SLE experiment in 1890 yes and um Beverly Rubik who's a biophysicist um and Harry Jabs who's a physicist they looked at that data and and and they wrote a paper basically saying well wait a minute there actually was an effect and how large of effect were you expecting and this is actually in the

magnitude that we would expect so it's like some effect there is an effect yes and and it's and it's also the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence so even if there wasn't an effect you can't definitively disprove The Ether and then if you read in this I think it's 1921 or two paper you know special relativity was supposed to negate The Ether and then Einstein writes later in his career he says actually general relativity is totally compatible with an ether and then if you look at Quantum electrodynamics which is

really the tip of the Spear of like modern science you know with Fineman and stuff the the we have vacuum energy you have energy everywhere so it's like the ether is back yes it is it sure is the ether is back and and so and I think scaler waves are you know are are making a comeback too I think so as well yeah and and so um so I think it's it's an exciting time for science yes because we're we're it's like we're rediscovering what had been discovered

but we're now ready to actually you know move forward with it I agree and I think Tesla discovered it I think another guy named Thomas Townsen Brown discovered it and I think it often involves kind of high voltages across short distances and when I speak to some pretty deep government people they often say you know there's there's a there there when it comes to Extended electrodynamics there's a guy named Lee hely who publishes on it uh there's an anonymous Navy scientist that showed up in one of my documentaries that talks about

extended electrodynamics and it's just this thing that continuously comes back and I initially cataloged it as you know low probability and maybe hard to detect but uh I'm learning more and more about it and from very credible people to the point where I I somewhat High conviction that there's that there's something there and yeah to your point about the equations the lorence equation you know the vector and scalar potentials were just set to zero out of pure expediency and then you

have things like the B arof effect where it seems like they you know even without a magnetic field present uh there are potential is present and so this is sort of explained Away by the electromagnetic for potential but that's a very poor explanation and uh I think the not only is the jury still out I think it's going to move towards this extended model very very soon and I'm excited about it I mean they're obviously maybe dangerous dual use implications but hopefully it unlocks you know really

good stuff as well do you know that cod8 nucleus and paman are you yeah I know about that yeah that that's a part of the brain that I find fascinating because um a friend of mine named Gary Nolan at Stanford he's a microbiologist uh he studies this area of the brain the more neuronally dense it is the more kind of executive functioning somebody seems to display but by executive functioning it's really just kind of what we would call psychic intuition and in fact I think there's uh you know a study where you hook up uh

somebody's brain to an fmri and they're playing the game of Go and when they make a quote unquote brilliant move which is a move that doesn't make any sense in the context of you know the the game and where it's at but it makes sense in the context of an end point that they almost have to psychically know about that part of the brain lights up and apparently when a person takes iboga that part of the brain lights up which you know people seem to get you know have these sort of visionary experiences this is this kind of psychedelic African tree bark that's

been ingested for thousands of years and so uh you know I think I wonder if that part of the brain is somehow part and partial to this uh different epistemological pathway that is uh immediate download Based or something MH I don't know yeah well it'll be interesting to see I mean you know the um as I said the um I really think that um the ventricles and the um the cyia that that you know line them you know

this CIA containing cells that line them um are are huge um you know huge component of this whole okay but what you also need to know most people won't know this because they don't know neur Anatomy is that the Kate and the bhaman are real close to the ventricles okay so so imagine it as being that you know this is you know like the sensory section uhhuh and the Kate and

the paman are then the the processors of that sensory you see what I'm saying it's like um yeah it's right next to the receptors yes yeah yeah so it's like kind of the first like encoder of the information exactly that's amazing yeah that's my own Theory nobody else has said that all right you heard it here first yeah that's really exciting yeah we should be studying that more I mean I'd be curious cuz you can literally do MRIs on people that seem to

have more paranormal experiences seem to be more quote unquote psychic or have predictive accuracy in these sort of controlled experiments and they're more neuronally dense in that area and it's often runs through families and seems to be hereditary and so I wonder if some of these kids took these MRIs if they would have more neuronally dense Cate nucleus nucleuses and pamment yeah well we do know that um there there definitely are studies that show um uh differences in the Cates of autistics interesting okay

so you already know that I didn't realize that that's amazing wow yeah yeah and the same thing for people who are schizophrenic and and so that you know a lot of what we label schizophrenic you know might be you know something else because I know that that's kind of the training of psychiatrist is to label somebody as schizophrenic if they report a lot of these phenomena yeah I don't really believe in the DSM I don't either yeah it just you just put somebody in a box and you slap a label on the thing and it sort of creates this

learned helplessness of like okay now treat it bio chemically with a thing instead of like what does that mean why do you have that and could it be adaptive in certain ways and then could it also be you know could you overcome it in other ways and it's way more pliable than just like this you have this thing like Go away You're not normal you know yeah I I I just always found I mean the DSM you know is really primarily a tool that is used by attorneys and health insurance companies

um for their purposes you know health insurance companies use it as a tool to say okay um uh for that diagnosis is What treatments are we going to authorize that someone can have uh and for lawyers it's you know for for those diagnoses what kind of you know punitive Dam you know compensatory damages can we you know ask for yeah you know so it it's it's it's strictly a um created as a description it's it's not a

description of the truth it's a description of um clinical syndromes that it's it's changed like three times in my career you know it it's a description of them that then is used for those purposes but but it we shouldn't be locked into it as thinking that um it's describing reality and it's it's symptomatic superficial it's often like behavioral superficial Maybe One Step better is it's superficial but it's

like a thing the body seems to be like it's like a you could say a fever right but then you're slapping you you're saying this person has this disease or this issue or whatever but like a million things could cause a fever you know and so like even the biological stuff is completely overdetermined and you need to actually splice out what are the underlying causal factors of this stuff and so yeah I hope we I hope we end up with a new model that's that's better absolutely and that was I mean what where I trained at John's Hopkins um we were taught to really look

for um various different causes of a syndrome we knew it was was a syndrome and that could have multiple different causes and so we would look for it well a lot of syndromes have a biological cause as and if you treat their um you know they've got too much calcium okay if you treat their hypercalcemia okay then XYZ symptoms go away right okay um or hyperthyroidism or hypothyroid you know there's there's a number of conditions that are caused by medical things so so that's why we train in

medicine first you know and and to look for those sometimes it's um psychosocial okay so we want to have a good psychosocial history and and and understand psychology understand sociology maybe that's the problem maybe it's a really you know family Dynamics or or problem sometimes you know it's um that you you'll hear somebody say something and it's really a spiritual crisis for them yes okay you know um because and

maybe they experienced some devast you know experience and and so what I discovered though early on is that because I was taking histories from people and trying to think you know okay asking them about everything everything from their physical well-being to you know their you know what kind of thoughts they had what kind of you know feelings they had Etc um I you know I would listen to their stories and try to think of you know okay where's the intervention going to be is it that I need to intervene in terms of you know a

medical condition or um you know referring for Psychotherapy or do Psychotherapy myself and I'd listen to the stories and some of the stories that were the wildest stories that you would think oh my gosh I'd later find out we true and so sometimes you know the thing that you think oh well you know maybe this is a sign of psychosis or or somebody who's you know a pathological liar or whatever you know go no there's actually another possibility and that is

that this is the truth and it's just that you yourself have not ever experience anything like it but it doesn't mean that it's not totally the truth hopefully by enabling these kids with these communication methods uh we can allow them to to come out more do you feel like they want us to know their abilities because that almost feels like a part of your mission is uh letting the world know that these are not only uh uh humans they're extraordinary humans and

uh and is that do you feel like they they also have this drive to be known for sure I mean I would not be doing this if it wasn't for that you know and and I think deeply I think they want us to know ourselves as much as they want us to know and appreciate and see them and to validate them um but it's been lovely or validating for me to hear how many non-speakers are so excited about the telepathy tapes I'll get little text messages of parents showing me them listening or listening over and over and

you know feeling for the first time maybe by some seen validated heard and not often their parents know but now the parents have a way to say I'm sing this to Aunt Judy you know I'm saying this to Grandpa and maybe he'll believe me now so I think the fact that in their own circles they're getting the respect that they deserve finally yes the validation that what they're talking about is absolutely real absolutely critical to all of us you know and um I I I for from every speller that I've had contact with

um they're very very excited and and I think have foreseen this time as being a part of where we're all headed and I think they would say that this is all part of a of a I mean there's many parts of it but um a step forward in our own human evolution to get back to who we really are how can we better tap into this Paradigm individually just ourselves because I don't know there's there's like the you know intellectual

version of it where which one of the kids like puts on a hat and like downloads like F Scott Fitzgerald novels that's Houston yeah it's so remarkable so there's like that there's that element and then there's just the love and unity element which is probably most important yeah H how how do we effectively uh you know listen to the telepathy tapes and Come Away with the right takeaways and and operationalize this in our own lives yeah I mean you know the work of Julia mossbridge and I think she'll talk about love being like

essential to S abilities it is yeah and it is and I think part of the unconditional love you see from the parents to the non their non-speaking children but and teachers to their non-speaking students but also from the non-speakers to these individuals being so often hopefully being patient and giving and loving and sacrificing to try to take take care of them you know in in a very difficult body often and that is a situation surrounded with love and sacrifice and it is within that situation where these beautiful things

know I mean all of this stuff is part and parcel of being a human being I think our Reliance on language and our cloudiness around materialism having for the past you know 3 400 years believe that the only things that are real are what you can measure and observe um that has harmed us it's taken us away from who we are because I think if you were to go back in time and ask people about telepathy it wouldn't be like you need to go prove that that's just part of the human experience it would just be like asking someone to go prove love

well how do you do that you know right and I think about in um Dr Ian Stevenson from the University of Virginia he was studying past lives and children and when he went to India and he was like I'm trying to prove you know past lives they're like why are you trying to prove that we already know it's real you know and so I think that's you know I'm not making a comment on reincarnation I'm just saying like I think that's the same idea is that we're trying to prove something that is just part of our being it's not paranormal it's normal it's it's super normal yeah it's uh it's so

interesting yeah it's like with the whole UFO disclosure conversation you go to South America or something and they're like yeah we talk to Star people all the time we have you know uh rituals that involve them and but it's like but we're going to be the one our government is going to disclose this there's going to be a file and we're going to sort of let it out and uh that same friend I mentioned prior who um you know studied at the prinston parapsychology lab for for decades who I just in my mind Beyond reproach just a really good person and

and Beyond rigorous as well and incred one of the smartest people I know um would say that you know you take these random event generators that was his like staple experiment and so you're tying you know this one zero output to something that's you know conventionally thought of as random in quantum mechanics so uh you know radioactive isotope Decay or something like that which with a known statistical distribution over a long enough time scale you expect there to be the same amount of ones and zeros because it's a perfect digital coin flip you know within a standard

deviation and there's a real effect that your mind can have on the output and the Dirty Little Secret that like he's like yeah you know this is well known in reeg random event generator circles is that your heart centeredness is somehow commensurate with your ability to affect the output on the random event generator and so yeah if that isn't like a new religious movement I I don't know what

what is you know it's it's really this amazing thing where it's like know your mandate is to go within and if there are any kind of impure intentions to like to to fix that because that is literally your uh it's also your your kind of ability to render the material world in a way it's so interesting yeah and I don't know if I talked about this in the series or not but you know um for the teachers who were able to build a two-way telepathic link with their students which is a phenomenon in and of itself teachers hearing their students

back so two-way telepathy I mean right there that proves that we can do this again I don't know if the non-speakers just being in that loving supportive space with them helps turn it on or what but for a lot of these cases that the students often like their first words will be tuned into my heart like that's the first thing Asher said to J was like tune into my heart and and I love that it's it's not saying think about my heart saying tune you know like think of that frequency that tune into my heart yeah and so you know I I don't have like

a a um like a rule book like you know manual and how to do that but I just think if you sit there and think about someone you love Yeah and concentrate on what you're grateful for and there that person yeah and how your life has changed because of that person and what they represent you can feel someone even if they're not speaking to you right it's I think it's good there's no real book I think it's good that you have to audit what's going inside of you and it's this kind of messy thing that really involves your personal growth and

evolution as a as a person yeah and yeah it's funny in that like UFO World a lot of people are like you know what do you know or whatever you know it's it's not like uh it's it's like an I think it's an awareness and like I think these kids are on a whole other level with they awareness it's not like a file you can give somebody you know it's not this semantic body of information and and that comes through auditing the self and through personal growth and that's you know uh something you can't short

circuit no I'm smiling because I just thought about something that too you know in terms of this tuning into something you also have to give yourself space to validate that like maybe an idea or a thought or an image isn't coming from your own mind yes and and that had never occurred to me until three nights ago like think about this I've been working on this for almost four years like three nights ago I woke up with this extreme vision of something that had to be in the film and it had to be with it had to do with like finding a real metaphorical Hill and bringing as many non-speakers

there together and making it beautiful like a really like spiritual place and Houston was like very prominent in this dream and so I woke W up in the morning and I said I wrote Katie and I said does H is does Houston send me images at night about the movie can you ask him if he just did that and she wrote back and she asked Houston and Houston said yes I do s Kai Images Oh and and here I was thinking I'm having this idea about the film maybe it wasn't my idea maybe it was Houston's idea I think it probably was and he was trying to convey something to me oh wow and I didn't for

so long I've just been taking it as oh okay here's this idea I had in the middle of the night when you know you're the most like open to this stuff yes and that gun was like shifted my Paradigm entirely cuz I thought oh my goodness has this been happening all along and how how many parents is that happening to while non-speakers are wonderful individuals with beautiful personalities and these incredible capab capabilities but they do require help and care and Sacrifice from those around them and it's often a 24 is a 24-hour 7 sacrifice

an act of love and so um so I think if there's anything that that comes out of this I really hope people start to just help the parents give them the resources they need um and and that and that will help the non-speakers very much as well but also giving the non-speakers resources and help and friendship like I loved going to a bar in H with Houston and Houston just had a beer you know we're all sitting the table and Dr Powell was there and Dr Jeff Taran like this was one of the nights we were filming and Houston just had his like Budweiser and was like you know typing

along and I remember thinking at the table I wish I was live I lived in Atlanta and I could do this all the time with Houston like I love watching football or whatever and and yes I mean just like all of us you want a loving relationship you want friends I I hope people aren't afraid to befriend non-speakers it will take more care and sacrifice and time but you can have a very fruitful beautiful relationship yes and so that's what I hope I hope their lives become so much more expansive with community and love and friendship I love that I think uh that is going to happen

and uh H how how can we affect it steer it in that direction well I was thinking about this a lot because one of the things Katie talked about which broke my heart was how for so many parents with non-speakers who have a hard time controlling their body and might be stemming and making noises how hard it was just to even go out in social situations to go to a bar to be on an airplane to go to a movie because she the way she said it was you know we're always worried about affecting like the normal people and you know or their children being afraid of my child and so

we have to go and how socially isolating that can be Katie who's an Evangelical Christian and you know her faith means everything to her said it was hard to go to church even at church they' be like oh make him go quiet like you know can you just go to this room instead and like how awful right so I think the first thing we can do is just have some like Grace and compassion and welcome non-speakers into our spaces and and I said this in an interview recently and I'm sure maybe it sounded trit and silly but I actually meant it is like if you own a bar if you have a restaurant like

have night where it's like non-speakers welcome like you know like autism night like come and hang out and allies too friends too you know at at a skating rink I mean I don't know whatever small business you have whatever it is at at the at the elementary school where my kids go you know myself and a few other um parents have made it really an effort to at every event to have a safe room for for people on the Spectrum or with sensitivities where they can go and be part of this event but not be bombarded

by what might feel feel uncomfortable so we can all do something in our own world to to make Society easier for non-speakers and their families to go out and participate in right there would be huge I totally agree and I hope that is a call to action that is heard widely and I think it's it's in the best interest of these these people to open up as well because you have so much to learn yeah and so uh yeah I hope I hope uh you you know be on the Forefront of this yeah and like I thought about this the other night just one point is like

most of my non-speaking friends and relationships are scattered around the country and I was thinking the other day I'm like oh I wish I knew at least you know a few non-speakers in Burbank where I live so I could go walk in Griffith Park with them once a week give the parent a break you know just come on and swim in my pool I know I know you love water you know like like come like let's hang out and chill because even in my in everyday life I don't H I have the people I'm talking to all over the every day but not the person right in my

midst that I just want to go hike with and walk around the block with and hold their hand and say we got you you know and like yeah that break for the mom is so huge or the dad yeah and and also so good for um the spellers to get out with other people and so good for all of us yeah I mean I I um it's a beautiful community of individuals that I hope more people get to know and love and appreciate I I hope too I think they have so much to to teach us have you ever read the book

childhood's End by any chance by Arthur C Clark no it's very interesting because kids start to develop telepathic Clairvoyant Powers it's talks about this sort of like non-human intelligence that is uh kind of this mental sheath all over the world who knows if that part is you know true but uh the bridge to this sort of you know other world are these kids that start to develop this Clairvoyant power and they're kind of

the ambassadors for Humanity oh wow and I just yeah so I just I find that so and Arthur C Clarks is a very interesting character to me where he's like there's something about that guy and Stanley kubri and some of these other guys where it's like you're tapped into some sort of like you're imagining some pre- reality that is going to kind of manifest yeah so well I think one thing I've learned is from what a lot of the non-speakers will say is that what we create on Earth really matters to yeah and those creative ideas are coming to us often from somewhere else and so I

started once I started getting into this world reading fiction in a whole new way and often being like whoa like where this is coming from is might be an Insight or a key into our greater reality and all this stuff is being funneled through creators and writers and I love that yes I I think that's the case yeah and on the on the scientific front uh Dr Diane Powell medical license was revoked is that right can we how do we make sure that her and people like her are protected uh especially when

they like her have the best of intentions and I think similar to you empowering these kids so they can study this stuff and uh you know teach it to the rest of us and even bring it into this our scientific Paradigm um what happened to Dr po was awful you know when she wrote her book the ESP Enigma she had her medical license revoked because she was talking about ESP and and she had to go through psychological testing to get to get her license back so demeaning it's

ridiculous when they read the book they realized it was extremely sound science of course I mean she's a brilliant you know scientist and researcher and and then she was fine not only in the state where she was practicing Oregon she was fine in California where she wasn't even practicing but she you know she I think she had a medical license there and and it traumatized her she'll say that it traumatized her and of course like you don't want to have income taken away from you you don't want to have I mean I can't imagine if I could if I made a documentary and someone slap me with fines right what yeah and it shouldn't

be happening to scientists either and Dr um Rupert sheldrick certainly talks about this like scientists should have a freedom of inquiry just like journalists just like creators should that by asking a question or presenting a hypothesis you shouldn't be fined and intimidated and have your credentials revoked and tainted and I don't know how to fix that I just hope awareness will I hope even just this podcast going out there kind of lets people think for the themselves when they see that a scientist has had

their name tainted that like huh is that a materialist Paradigm which is this belief that like everything has to be measured and you know it's all like concrete what we understand and see is this a materialist Paradigm that's that's keeping these scientis in check did they really do anything wrong so we all just need to start asking that question yeah and you we also o have to ask you know yeah to the materialists out there if this is all quackery why revoke your license why are you threatened at all let her continue to do her studies you know they're not going anywhere because it's all fake or whatever so uh it shows an insecurity

of these people were earnestly coming to him saying you know we've we've had all these you know alien abduction experiences yeah and he was persecuted by by Harvard there was a trial there and um so he dies he gets hit by a car very tragically in London and she goes to his memorial and I guess all the people at the memorial are like uh Dr Powell you have to take on uh Dr John Max's Legacy this is really important and I think he ends up she ends up running his

Institute I think it's called gem or something and uh then she buys this house which serendipitously like kind of comes into view for her uh in Oregon and the house is birth date when it was built was the same birthday as John Mack or something and so it's this very interesting kind of synchronicity gosh I'm so like just in all right now that you're bringing this up because on the car right over here I was talking to my producer Jen and she said she was talking about the UFO um uh just like

the world how often it's interviews and it's a lot of the science and and everyone's looking at the science and experiencers and I mean not experienc the disclosure and the technology and XYZ and I said I didn't really understand the whole world until I read John Max's book and I understood what all these experiences were talking about and it made my heart and my body like ache and hurt and swell and confused and I bought in I then I was like awaken to it because I understood what people were experiencing you know

and and anyway we were talking about that in a way here that like the gifts of like John Mack bringing these experiences not just you don't have to I mean I can't I can't speak for everyone for my point of view you don't have to prove everything with instruments and data yes and look at these hundreds of people having the same experience all over the world that's what John Mack did yes for euphology I think oh he totally did and he's I think a part of this paradigm shift because there's amazing conversation he had with Terence McKenna who's also one of these Paradigm shifters he's sort of a call him a

fungal philosopher you know really interested in mushrooms and you know new paradigms and Consciousness and just an amazing guy and and he and John Mack are speaking and John Mack you know McKenna is actually playing the role of this kind of like funny provocator where he's asking these questions to Mac but he kind of they're kind of leading questions that he knows the answer to and you can see it on his face and he's like you know what's going to happen to the Western Paradigm or something and John Max says oh it's gonna it's G to burst open and we're all going to realize that the Western Paradigm is

incredibly myopic and closed if you want to shatter the Western mental structures the the Western mind so to speak which is now permeating the whole earth in its dualistic philosophy the way you do it is you take something that's supposed to be in the spirit world because even in the west we can make allowance for the spirit world and we can study it through mythology through religion through imagination through poetry but the one

unforgivable sin to the Western mind is when something that should be in the spirit world world transgresses and shows up in the physical world and I think what he's getting at is this idea that the Observer observed dichotomy is going to break down this idea that there's an impartiality this distance between me as this like perfect instrument of observation and what I'm seeing is going to collapse and these kids are the just the perfect example of

that where they can sense people's energies in this sort of just extremely precocious way and what you're feeling matters and uh that that really I mean the name of the my show is American Alchemy as well and that the alchemical process is is changing the outer world through through the inner and uh I I wonder if we're at the end of this you know John Mack was friends with Thomas who um uh you know wrote the structure of scientific revolutions and he was like you got to look into this

because Thomas Kon knew that um you know uh at end of a paradigm shift or sorry at the end of a paradigm a current Paradigm you have a law of marginal returns declining marginal returns where you're you're just you know kind of dotting the eye and crossing the te on like your final Theory and then it all just kind of blows up and you see it happening right now with string theory and physics where you have people like Leonard suskin the top of the field who are getting interviewed and they're like we haven't really discovered much like I give I give our you know B+ or whatever

and then you have all this stuff that's coming out and it's like kind of undeniable and Academia I think is going to be laid bare as kind of playing catchup on this stuff because they have to play these reputational Optics games I see it with high-profile friends of mine who are like in Academia they have like more of a reputation I'm like this rag tag former VC or whatever I'm like this is real like so obvious and they're like okay like send me the paper and I'll read it and they're like like if the New York Times reports on it then I'll take it seriously like just look at

the data what's you know for yourself think for yourself for sure and that's what I would say to anyone listening who's just like I don't know what to believe I don't want to make of this approach everything with open-minded skepticism because if you're just a close-minded skeptic you're dogmatic you're just like a fundamental religious person who won't listen to anything else or you're you might be exactly what you are against in a lot of ways and being an open-hearted skeptic doesn't mean you don't an ask questions it doesn't mean you don't explore the truth but you need to be open that the truth might be very different than what you think it is and

I think that's what I encourage people to do be open-minded Skeptics and your world will be blown I love it how can we help you and how can we help these kids um you know I'm in the process of of raising money for the film and I'm having some wonderful conversations and I'm hoping we'll have funding together you know um by next year I mean that's my goal um and so you know I will keep people up to date on that I would honestly say the best thing people can do right now is just share the telepathy tapes with their friends and family and

teachers and and just to help with this paradigm shift all I want is for people to hear this message and and as far as the non-speakers go advocate for spelling write to Asha talk to your school district write a letter it you know um AB therapy is not the solution I think every parent will say that I mean spelling has been a miracle worker we have to get Spelling into schools ASAP and universities well this has been an absolute honor Dr Powell and um I hope hope that everybody understands how uh

you know Earnest and rigorous you are in your work and I think it's an absolute atrocity that your your medical license was revoked at one point right just for looking into this stuff yeah and so um yeah thank you for for giving us your your time and uh excited to make something cool out of this yeah thank you very much it's been a pleasure go listen to the telepathy tapes and let's destigmatize spelling immediately and allow these kids to get H and let's get you some no strings attached money for whatever you want to do creatively

around this in the future and uh thank you Kai this was amazing thank you so much for having me a great combo thank you so much to my Heritage for sponsoring this video please check out their 14-day free trial via the link in the description or the QR code