The Moon Is An Alien Spaceship (Ft. Randall Carlson)

should have deformed into the state of least energy, which is a sphere. Why hasn't it done that? What do you think? I am willing to consider that the moon has been geoengineered. [music] And how would it have been geoengineered by a civilization with a technology advanced enough? Do you think Atlant's geoengineered it? Look, the Imperial Mammoth stood 16 ft tall at the shoulder. The Ursus Spalius, the bear that stood 6 feet tall at the shoulder and 12 feet tall when it stood up on its hind legs. There were giants.

But if you had all of these mamalian megapa, oversized compared to today, why not people? This week's American Alchemist is the always fascinating and extremely knowledgeable Randall Carlson. Randall and I have been friends since 2018. I annoy him constantly with random phone calls on everything related to esoterica, ancient civilizations, and geology. This interview spans two conversations, one in 2022 and one in 2024. [music]

In private, Randall and I have had some pretty trippy conversations about the ancient site of Atlantis, a cataclysm that might have disrupted life there, [music] and then where those survivors went. Randall has speculated with me given certain anomalies with [music] the moon that maybe some of these survivors have camped out on the moon. I think about that with respect to the UFO topic where [music] there's constant lore around underwater bases and there are a lot of real anomalies with our moon. And so I decided to grill Randall [music]

Carlson on this thread. So my disclaimer here is that this conversation is going to be stepwise more speculative than any conversation you've [music] heard Randall have. And I have no idea if there's veracity to any of this, but it's extremely fun to speculate and it's also important. [music] It drives science. I also think if you look at a lot of Randall's earlier work around the younger [music] dus impact hypothesis, it would have been considered extremely speculative [music] in the '90s, but now we have an abundance of evidence that he's probably just right. So, in the

about this for a year or two or three. Yeah. you know, since we met, which was it's got to be at least a couple years I want to say it was three years ago. I think it's still pushing three years. I tried to get you to move to LA and become my mentor. Uh but I was sorely tempted. Um but um yeah, when push came to shove, I couldn't pull it [laughter] off. You got busy. You did. I remember at the time you were like, "You know what? I've been I've been thinking I need somebody

to you know uh uh transmit my teachings [clears throat] to and I've always remembered that because I've you know uh called you uh randomly from time to you probably know me as a guy that call you you know sporadically. Yeah. Right. Right. I sometimes my phone ring I'll Oh god it's Jesse Michaels [laughter] Hey Jesse. No I'm always happy to get a call from you Jesse. Thanks man. So far, I love I love our conversations. We We

talk about some trippy out there stuff. Speaking of which, I've been on a weird uh kind of rabbit and I've been thinking about the moon and I think uh the moon doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I would agree. I would totally agree that it doesn't make a lot of sense. Yeah. What's up with the moon? It is way less dense than the Earth. The material predates the Earth and yet it's supposed to have come from the Earth itself from some sort of asteroid impact. So that

You have uranium [clears throat] 236 and and uh chromium and and chromium and titanium titanium on the moon. These are sort of rather rare high refrractory metals. [snorts] It's very strange. And then it feels almost like you know this perfect ball and it rotate. It orbits in this perfect way where you never see the dark side of the moon. If you ask people and I do this just for I'll say to people, does the moon rotate on its And most people go and they can't

conceptualize in any way that allows them to even answer the question. Does it? Well, yes. Okay, it does. Okay. Or no? Well, let's say because most people now, unlike our ancestors of long ago, don't pay much attention to the moon. Our ancestors all over the ancient world paid obsessive attention to the moon. They built huge structures and monuments

dedicated to observing the motions of the moon. Uh, and they did this all over the world. Why? Why were they so interested in the moon? Why were they so intrigued with the moon? Um that they would create these large astronomy observatories that would allow them to track, for example, the 18.6 year lunar cycle between maximum rising and setting, minimum rising and setting, which takes a full

it takes 18.6 years to go through the full cycle. And to put it into a a a very what I would think of as kind of a a a comprehensible motion is you've got a minimum rising, a minimum setting, a maximum rising, a maximum setting, and it goes like this. It goes maximum Uh like maximum rise,

minimum set, maximum set, minimum rise, and it oscillates like that back and forth. It takes 18.6 years. Give or take a few days to complete that full cycle. There's a place that we'll go to at some point [clears throat] in Colorado called Chimney Rock. We can pull up a slide of it a little bit later if you'd like. It's a It's two natural pillars, huge pillars are thousand ft above the valley floor and they're connected by a ridge and you can

go up that ridge and where the ridge sort of flattens out before you get to these two huge pinnacles of rock. There's a the remnants of an ancient structure there in an ancient Ka that would have been built by the Chakan And this was one of the Chakan outliers part of the whole Chakun civilization that was pretty much covered the 10,000 square miles of the San Juan Basin in New Mexico whose hub was Choco Canyon.

And there was a whole series of outliers that were uh places of uh observation um high pinnacle points that would have been um probably used as as a communication system. We can pull some of this up and I can show you some of these slides. You'll kind of see how it worked. But at Chimney Rock, the ra remains of a kar there. And if you position yourself at the at the right location within that ka which is circular, you peer through those through

those two pinnacle rocks and it marks that position where you will see every 18.6 years you will see the moon rising in between those two rocks. And that's coming up later this year. So, I'm thinking uh a little trip out there and the park, it's a national monument, I believe. The park service that governs it is going to open it up so people can actually hike up the ridge and get in that position and see the event.

on the moon right now. I don't know. I don't know the explanation for it. I don't know why carbon dioxide is being outgassed from the moon, but carbon dioxide seems to suggest well carbon dioxide you associate with plants, with vegetation, water vapor. Well, you know, coming out of the moon, the moon's super weird. So Apollo 10, right, uh it took off from the moon and it rang like a bell and NASA became very confused. Then in Apollo 11, they put seismometers in the moon to measure this effect. They intentionally crashed the

booster, the first stage of uh the lunar module in Apollo 11 back onto the moon and it rings like a bell for three hours. So they're like, "What the hell's going on here?" And it turns out that if you excavate, you know, if you dig on the moon, uh lower sediment layers on the moon actually are newer than higher sediment layers. So it's the exact inverse and it actually pattern matches to an excavation site. So, you think that there might be a a little camp out from

this past civilization on the moon? But in in the spirit of the outrageous hypothesis, let's consider it. Okay, I like that. And so, why haven't we gone back? You know, 1969 to 1972, we went on all these cool missions. You had the uh NASA Saturn program, uh the Apollo programs, and uh we don't seem to be able to go back. You even have NASA admins saying we lost the technology. Like that's that's not even like a controversial conspiratorial thing to say. The more conspiratorial thing would

be that was a hoax or whatever. You know, one the more prosaic explanation is that Nixon decided to pull the plug on the Apollo program because the Vietnam War was costing us so much money and we were going into debt that he didn't feel like we had enough, you know, money to to continue the program. So they decommissioned the whole Saturn rocket fleet, which was really dumb and stupid, but that's what they did. And so, you know, you could make the argument, well, the Vietnam War won out over the Apollo program. There was probably more to it

than that, but I don't know what that would be unless something was found that, you know, what might have been found, I don't know. And there there are civilizations pre-moon that talk about they talk about you know the moon not existing and then there you know Sumerians talk about the premoon civilizations and so what's up that I don't think that means what people think it means because here's why I think that it means something very

interesting but obviously if you had the moon arriving into earth orbit during the time that humans would be here the arrival of the moon into earth's orbit would be an extraordinary event and it would be profoundly catastrophic. So, how do you think the moon formed? Oh, well, uh, that's part of the mystery. Um, come on, Randall. Well, see, I I don't necessarily have all the answers on that, but I will say something. [laughter] As far as the moon, the the the

structure of the moon, you're right that the moon is much less is slightly more than half as dense as the Earth. Mhm. So [clears throat] the the interesting thing about the moon is if you get enough mass together the gravitational attraction will overcome the resistance to deformation of the material. What that means is that if you have a small object like a like say for example an

astronomical object like Phobos or Deeos the the moons of Mars they're not spherical. There's not enough mass there to uh the the the the rigidity of the Hey, American Alchemy fans. After years of trying pretty much every shaving product under the sun, I finally found something that I love. It's called House of Atlas. House of Atlas's razor kit has raised my grooming game in the biggest way. The razor that leaves you with the smoothest shave you'll ever get. They

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That's hu.com your new razor kit and before and after set. So stop wasting money and time on shaving products that don't look good, aren't effective, and cost way too much. Visit houseofatlas.com today. Trust me, you'll love it as much as I did. There's not enough mass there that the gravity attraction, the internal gravity

can overcome the resistance of the material and cause it to deform somewhere between say the moons of Mars and the moons of the earth, you will get enough mass where it does um overtake that the gravity will overwhelm the rigidity of the material. it will deform into the shape which requires the least energy to maintain which is a sphere. The mass of the moon is sufficient to do

that. Yet, it hasn't done that. How do we know that? Well, there's a number of ways we know that. The most prominent way we know that is the fact that there is two moments of inertia in the moon. Um, let's see. Grab like one of those wooden compasses off the top right there, I think. Yeah, one of those. Let's see. Will that work? Is there another? Let's see. Is there should be Is there anything else up there? Tubular That'll work. That'll work. Okay. So,

now I'm going to hold this pen as if it's locked into a single moment of inertia that coincides with its center of mass. Okay. Now, what I want you to do is try to grab each end of the pen and try to rotate it. No, rotate it horizontal plate. See, I You're You're going to easily overcome my resistance. I'm going to I'm going to resist and you see I can't. Okay. rotate it in the same plane.

One moment of inertia. Two moments of inertia. Okay. when I what you are okay so here's here is a spherically radially symmetrical object let's imagine it is a sphere and this is an axis and you are earth's gravity field so again very little resistance right but now you're earth's gravity field and there's two moments of inertia

so what's happened there is the moon is locked into Earth's gravity field in a one:one coupling between the spin of the moon on its axis and its revolution about the earth. One spin orbit coupling. The moon has sufficient mass and low density that it should have deformed into the state of least energy

Not really. I'm not ready to go into some of the, you know, that the moon is an artificial object. I am willing to consider that the moon has been geoengineered. Okay. And how would it have been Well, by a civilization with a technology advanced enough that they would be able to Do you think Atlant's geoengineered it? Well, now you're

into the question of could there have been a a civilization in the remote past that had technologies that we currently don't know about. And I think the answer is yes. That is a plausible hypothesis that is not um is not warranted by just summarily dismissing. How would they have geoengineered the well, if you look at the schemes for [clears throat] building lunar bases, have you ever looked at any of NASA's

ideas for building lunar bases? Um, I should pull up something here. Uh, if I've got it handy, I will pull it up. basically the main problem with building a colony on the moon or a u kind of a a facility [clears throat] on the moon is cosmic radiation. So how do you solve the problem of cosmic radiation that to which you are going to be subject on the surface of

the moon? You need some protective shielding maybe a magnetic protective shielding. Good. You which means you're thinking immediately something like there one of the schemes is and if I can find it here I'll pull it up. One of the schemes is a a dome like structure. Yeah, something like that. Yes, you could do that. Or what would be another possibility? Oh, under. So there you go. So it could be this hollow structure. Interesting.

That's right. And there's a famous uh space adviser, I think he was NASA affiliated uh to Eisenhower named Gordon McDonald who said the only way that I've read his work, the only way that the moon makes any sense is if it's hollow. But that's an oversimplified Like a simple like if you picture a a a basketball that has an outer shell but completely empty. It has maybe compartments or something. Do you think they're Atlantean survivors uh within the moon?

He says with a guran a a sly guran. You already said yes on my show and 800,000 people watched that. Did I say that? You said you go there's a loaded question, Jesse. And then you go, well, Do you believe that there are survivors of ancient Atlantis that are among us perhaps with underwater bases or bases on the moon and advanced technology? Ah, now there's the loaded question, Jesse. I will just say very provisional.

well, let's put it this way. If there were ancient cultures, whether it was Atlantis or not, that's a whole like a separate question. I think that questioning the existence of Atlantis is definitely valid. Mhm. If we go through and we take line by line our primary source for information on Atlantis, which is Plato's two dialogues, and we actually break it down line by line, [clears throat] we look at the multiple translations, we look at um

even going back to the original Greek to some of the the the the possible alternative translations of some of the words. So, I think we can do that, but that's a conversation you've had with other people. And I feel like you have sort of evidence that is, you know, in the form of uh these sort of archaeological ruins that will always be hotly contested and are and are sort of hard to prove that that was Atlantis because the actual survivors have been washed away. And then you have all these

believe it was excoriated his colleagues for being overly conservative in their thinking and not willing to consider new ideas and he wrote a very famous paper called which you might want to read you could I bet you you could find it as a PDF form on Google it's called the value of outrageous hypothesis love that Yeah. So, in the spirit of outrageous hypothesis, why don't we conjecture

that given the the at least 150 to 200,000 years that we modern humans have been on this earth that consistent with a lot of the myths um flight was not discovered back in the you know by the Wright brothers but was rediscovered by you Here here's the the perspective that I kind of consider if we look at you know the dominance of just feudalism of subsistence farming you know uh that was

up until the 17 1800s and the scientific enlightenment followed by the industrial revolution. Uh that was pretty much 90 9% of the earth's population. When my grandparents were born in the 1890s, the primary mode of transportation aside from aside from rail rail was foot, horse, mule,

you know, ships of course, but obviously nobody had uh well, the first automobiles I guess were just showing up in the mid1 1890s, but then [clears throat] when I was born there was no computers. We had no presence in space. If you look at how far and fast we've come scientifically in the last 200 years. And then if you were to think that, well, what if a cataclysm wiped out our modern civilization and we had archaeologists

coming and digging up looking for, you know, prehistory 10,000 years prior. Well, would they find any evidence that we were we were even here? And the answer is well it depends on the severity and the intensity and magnitude of these events. Now if we start talking about the younger dus I think we can safely state that the younger dus was a global catastrophe and it involved multiple factors all of which would have

for the existence of Atlantis. Now, if we look at what happened with Ancient Apocalypse, Graham Hancock show, it got attacked on multiple fronts. It's all the establishment coming out. And of course, [clears throat] if you dissect their attacks on the show, there's no substance to them. It's just name calling. It's every logical fallacy in the book, right? But if you go back to the original accounts, there's nothing there that's

really so implausible that it couldn't have existed in some form or another. Well, the objections people have are it [snorts] was told that sort of a mythos festival, right, in the Tus and [clears throat] Creteus account. And so, you know, there's there was a question of like how how true the actual telling was. And then the other the other sort of argument is they were supposed to have fought a war I think against Athens and Athens wasn't around you know sort of thousand years prior. You've got a whole bunch of assumptions. If you go back if you go back to you

know the the the late ice age times you know you go back to the times that Plato is talking about and his date is is very interesting. you know, 9,000 years before Solon's uh exile to Egypt, right? Which occurred in 600 BC. So, the 9,600 BC, which is the end of the Younger Dryus, right? Precisely the end of the Younger Dryus and Meltwater Pulse 1B. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you are going through something,

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show and tell them we sent you. That would go a long way. Now, to [clears throat] me, that is quite an amazing coincidence that you have a very rapid pulse of sea level rise. At the same time, Plato is saying that there were islands in the Atlantic that sank due to seismic events. And one of the things I've done is gone in and studied the marine geology and oceanography of the Atlantic Ocean basin. And it's right there. There is overwhelming evidence of major subsidance on the

floor the Atlant the floor of the Atlantic Ocean, particularly concentrated along the mid-Atlantic You don't happen to have any slides around this, do you, Randall? Well, I do. I actually do. Yeah. Should we get into it? Uh, I'd love to, you know, um, while while you're pulling that up, Randall, do you think that there's any sort of sacred geometry about the human body that allows it to Oh, yeah. tap in to what is what is that? Well, it's primarily the the golden

section, also known as the divine Uhhuh. where also known as the uh extreme and mean ratio which um is basically well this right here actually is a compass that demonstrates that ratio where the ratio of the small segment to the large segment is exactly the same as the ratio of the large segment to the hole. You know what else displays that? The How so? I believe

What is up with that? That's weird. How is it that Well, see what's up. See, here we get into the fact that that's just one interesting item in a whole array of weird coincidences about this reality that we inhabit. M when we look at the whole solar system, the whole solar system looks curiously like a work of like when you begin looking at the ratios of planetary sizes, masses,

there's some really interesting things going on which if you change the even a little bit. For example, the the masses and distance spacing of the four larger outer planets are precisely what they need to be to transfer comets from the inner zone of the Kyper disc into uh a uh the inner solar system. M if you were to change the spacing or the masses, this whole phenomena of

capturing cometier comets out of the Kyper disc, transferring them into the inner solar system would cease. Why would it uh you know comet air burst from the torren meteor streamlate? Well, it wouldn't it would not on the earth. But if you have a major influx of a cometary mass into the inner solar system and and so here going back to the torid meteor stream here is right now the idea that's coming from the new

and Jupiter that this huge comet began to undergo a a system of of hierarchical system of breakups forming ever smaller um cometary nuclei pieces that then went under again another um process of breaking up which ultimately led to the torid meteor stream. Now in the early days of of a cometary destruction like this was the comet Anky. Comet Anky. Now that's good. That's

good. Not comet Anki wouldn't have been the progenitor comet. It would have been one of the secondary or tertiary comets from the breakup of the original. Got Does that make sense? Yes. So in early times going back 10 12 15,000 years ago 20,000 years ago this debris has not cleared out. It's it's very dense within the stream of the torid meteor stream. The earth crosses that stream twice each year crosses. So picture this Jupiter

the sun the stream comes around the sun. It makes its perihelion passage around the sun, goes out, goes it it loops back in just inside Jupiter like this. And so it's streaming around like this and it lays close to the plane of the ecliptic and Earth passes through that stream twice each year in its orbit. When that stuff is coming from its perihelion passage behind the sun, the earth that's

the summertime torids which occur in late June and early July. Now the earth is moving and then it comes to the falltime torids that are coming in towards the sun but coming from apparently space. Now, all meteor streams are named after the that you would look at to see which direction you're emanating from. The torids obviously are named after the constellation Taurus and specifically

they're almost t the radiant point is almost targeted right on the pleades which is the shoulder of the bull in the classical depictions. So, in the fall time, oh I forgot to mention that. Today, we are right now, today, tomorrow, and the next day in the peak of the Torid meteor streak. That's kind of scary. Well, at this point, the most of this stuff has been is it's very diffused.

It's not but you were answering the question as to why the sun would be involved. Here's what I'm getting at. Okay. What we now have is evidence that the infall of meteorites into the sun can trigger solar outbursts. So coronal mass ejections because it's intaking mass. Well, that's amazing. Okay. So interesting. So that's sort of this hybrid. It's almost like this torid meteor stream sets off a chain of other calamities because you're talking about seismic activity, volcanic activity, sun

Yes. I think that's the that that's the way you have to look at it. We're looking at a coherent system. What I think is we're we're getting to the point where we can now understand kind of almost a unified process where the the motion of the planets, the sun, the in the ingress of cosmic material coming from the kyper disc or the ort Can have profound effects on the planets and the sun. So all of your ideas around you know cyclical cataclysms

uh when it comes to the torid meteor stream wouldn't be made possible without that sort of architecture to the solar and see so what happens is it's the conjunctions of the large outer planets that can perturb the comets in the inner zone of the Kyper disc which are in very quasi stable orbits which means that if you have imagine that you got a flat surface and you put a sphere on it. Well, if you have an impulse in any direction, it can move. Right? Now, suppose you have a dimple in a flat

plane and you put your sphere in there. Well, now it's going to take a whole lot more force to move that because you've got to overcome it the fact that it's sitting in this depression, a basin. See? Suppose on the other hand, it's sitting on top of a hill, right? And it's sitting there. As long as nothing disturbs it, it sits there precariously perched. But a little bit of force pushed on it, it begins rolling down, right? Quasi stable. So comets on the inner portion of the

Kyper disc are quasi stable. So what that means is that the the consequence of that is the conjunctions of the large outer planets when they conjunct like let's say uh you have Uranus and then you have Neptune. Okay. So when they're on opposite sides of the orbit whatever influence they have just is minimal or it cancels each other out. Okay. But now Uranus is on a faster orbit than Neptune. So it's coming along like this

and as it's catch c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c catching up the gravity fields of the two objects will combine right now let's say you've got comets picture this big disc it's rotating slowly about the sun it's way out there you know outside the orbit of uh Neptune it's rotating right they're not just sitting there the whole disc is rotating so now you have Uranus [clears throat] and Neptune they combine their gravity fields so the gravity is and you've got a comet out here. So that

combined gravity pulling on that, what's it going to do? It's going to be like putting on the brakes. Okay. Now, on the other hand, let's say that a comet is behind it as you're getting this conjunction. So now these combined masses of of Uranus and Neptune are in front of the comet. They're all moving in the same direction. Now the the gravity field is pulling. It's going to accelerate. Okay. So now, how does the comet then respond to a deceleration or an acceleration? An acceleration will move

it to a higher orbital level. It'll it'll speed up and it'll move out. It'll move away from the sun. If it's decelerated, it will move in. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. As it slows down, it sort of falls in. Closer to the sun. When it does that, it now comes within the zone of the planets. Saturn, Uranus. So now you've got comets within the orbit of Neptune. Think Saturn, Uranus. Same f same thing.

If they break, if they slow down the orbits, it'll transfer in. It'll come inside the orbit of Saturn. Now the big daddy granddaddy of planetary masses is Jupiter. It'll it then it'll be Jupiter that in most cases the determinant picture Jupiter with the thundersstone. So Jupiter's sort of a Jupiter will grab that comet and either throw it back out towards the outer outside the planetary orbits or he'll throw it down towards

the sun. Now that comet gets caught in that game of cosmic pingpong where it's back and forth between the Jovian orbit and the sun. So it's doing this and now what happens is with that transfer of the comet into the zone of the planet what determines whether Jupiter throws it towards the sun or same principle here's Jupiter it's going around the sun here accelerating then right here here comes the comet it's rotating this way and here comes Jupiter

so as it's coming up like this gravity is pulling on it slowing it down and it falls in towards the sun that's what does it. So, it's the huge mass of Jupiter's gravity. Aren't we about to hit a particularly heavy time for the torid meteor stream? Isn't the twice each year the earth crosses the torid meteor stream? That's what September uh the end of October. The fall torid is sometimes referred to as Halloween meteors. And I gave a whole I've got a

whole presentation I did last Halloween or day or two before Halloween where I talk about the connection between the ancient origins of our uh Halloween celebration and the Torid meteor shower. Interesting. What are the what how do those connect at all? Well, because for because [clears throat] for one of the things see the like the earth crosses the torid meteor stream twice each year and actually after the break I'll pull up a graphic and I'll show you the

and what two month so it's it's uh no late October early November early November takes about a week for earth to comp to to cross it's a southern and the northern torids are the distinction yeah then in late June early July. If we can picture, let's push your cup over here. Or or or the coaster. We can use the coaster. There we go. That'll be the You know that moment when you slip into something and instantly wonder how you ever lived without it? That's exactly

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sent you. Don't blend in with the crowd. Stand out with chubbies. Okay. And this is the Earth. Now the Earth is going around the Sun, Okay. So, here's what happens. We get that here. Picture that the torids are coming in. Jupiter's out there somewhere up there where the the screen is. The the torid meteor stream is coming in like this. It makes a parahhelian passage around the sun. Mhm. which is its closest passage to the sun.

Then it's coming out. Now bear in mind that as these meteors and are coming in, as they're getting closer and drawn into the sun's massive gravity field, they're accelerating, right? So they come flying in going faster and faster. They make that round, make the perihelion passage, then they come out and immediately now they're moving against the sun's gravity. So the sun is now slowing them down. M. So now picture it's slowing down and slowing down and then eventually it gets

far enough out that Jupiter's gravity field is has a stronger attraction on it than the sun's. Jupiter will begin accelerating it and then it'll come out. It'll round Jupiter or sometimes it won't go out as far as Jupiter. It'll it'll it'll fall back. Um but in any case, you can picture it's making this orbit like this. The torid meteor stream [snorts] is lays very close to the plane of the ecliptic which is earth's orbital plane.

Now, if most comets that come in from the Kyper disc are going to be ecliptic plane comet comets because the Kyper disc picture it's like a disc and it's in that same roughly 15 16 um degree band that the planet that the zodiacal belt is and the which the planets move right now the or cloud which is outside of there is a sphere. If a comet comes in from your cloud, it can come in at any angle, right? And usually what that

means is that it comes in and it the geometry of its orbit will be described by a a parabola which is an open-ended conic section. Whereas a Jovian orbit is a closed ellipse. So if you can observe a comet and make enough observations over enough long long enough period of time you can determine whether it's orbital geometry is elliptical or parabolic. If it's parabolic it's open. So what that means it's coming in circling the sun going out never to

If it's elliptical you know it's going to be periodic toward meteor stream. So that accounts for June the June The June torid are elliptical. The the whole stream is elliptical. Okay. the whole stream. Just picture a stream of material and it's elliptical. The stream itself is elliptical. Okay. So now Earth's orbit intersects that in two places. It intersects the torid stream in late June, early July and then again in late October, early November. Now here's the the the thing

you have to grasp. the summertime torids when the earth is crossing the stream that stream is coming from around it's just made its parhelion passage around the sun. So if you were to look in the sky towards the the radiant point from which those meteors are emanating you're looking right up towards the sun. So what is that going to do to your the the your visibility of the meteors? They're going to be hard to detect, hard to see. On the other hand, when you go to late October, the stream is coming in from

this way. So, when you're looking upstream, you're not you're looking away from the sun. You'll see light showers. And so, now you'll see the meteors, right? And you'll be able to see the radiant point. And the radiant [clears throat] point is that point in space from which the meteors appear to be right? And you have, you know, one example would be comet Shoemaker Levy 9, which was, you know, a half mile wide in And that caused uh basically the the when it impacted

Jupiter, it was 600 times uh all of the uh you nuclear TNT. [clears throat] The interesting thing about Shoemaker was that it had been a it was a single comet nucleus. M it passed very close to Jupiter within the uh the zone called the Ro limit. Okay. The ro limit is the limit whereby the gravity field of a primary mass can overcome a sec the the and cause the

disagregation of a secondary mass. Now Jupiter has this massive powerful gravity field. A comet nucleus is a very fryable. It's it's it's a uh uh it's not a strongly bound object like an iron asteroid, It it can break apart. Shoemaker Lev9 passed within the Ro limit of Jupiter. The really powerful gravity field of Jupiter ripped it apart and what had been one nucleus

broke into 21 separate objects. Those 21 separate objects then began to spread out in a so-called string of pearls and that made one orbit around the sun and came back out and crossed intersected the orbit of Jupiter at precisely the time Jupiter was there. Right? Most likely what had been happening is, you know, it had been orbiting Jupiter dozens if not hundreds of times and every time getting a little

closer. Every time it went out there was drawn in a little tighter. We discovered it right at that point where it was making its final passage, right? It may have made dozens of passages before that. We discovered it right at the beginning of its final passage when it was had just been ripped apart and was now 21 pieces. So in I think the second week of July 1994, those 21 pieces impacted Jupiter.

Impacted Jupiter. Yes. One of them that was 600 times the entire nuclear arsenal on Earth in terms of its destructive force. And uh what's kind of worrying is I looked at the NASA dart mission and you know that was a spacecraft uh I think was knocking into Dorphice which was a dorphice which is actually two object that's why it's two die means two right yeah and the but the spacecraft was you know was was was pretty small and dorphice is pretty

small dorphice is what like 250 m or was small so it's you know you're talking about a half mile wide versus 250 m. I still worry about, you know, and rightfully so. Rightfully so. Now, the thing is the larger object really the more lead time you need. And if we find an object, see, and just like with Jupiter uh with Shoemaker Levy 9, you know, it took three months of because you basically need two things. You need the velocity and you need the geometry of the orbit. When you have those two of what are called the orbital

elements, you can now make accurate predictions about when and where something is going to be in its orbit. So when you describe the solar system as it's set up to almost funnel in material from uh outside of the kyber belt uh you're almost talking about or touching on this you know sort of anthropic principle this idea that or fine-tuning principle like if plank's constant were slightly different you know gravity would be different the whole climate of the earth would be different.

Do you think that the solar system was intelligently designed? Well, see here we get into some really deep questions that I, you know, I say intelligently designed. I'm almost, you know, my my philosophy of life, spirituality and say is that the entire universe seems to have intelligence. But what does that even mean? I don't know. It's it's it's almost beyond my comprehension, you know. Um, but let's [clears throat] put it this way and say I was totally an atheist and I knew about and I studied these extremely

narrow range of parameters within which it seems higher life is even possible. Right? I would if I was an atheist I would have to conclude this that our solar system is extremely unique in that it has exactly these extremely narrowly defined parameters that has allowed life to emerge first of all even to emerge on earth second to get from single cell microbial life up to us

for example you we talked about the moon earlier if you take the moon away there's no intertital zone So fine, not to mention the earth would be not rotating in a stable way around its axis. It would be wobbling. The moon [clears throat] actually think of the moon is like a great stabilizing That that helps keep the earth locked into its 23 and 1 half degree Another reason it might be geomagnetically [clears throat] Yeah. Well, see, I'm I'm so mindboggled

at the whole situation that I I try to wrap my head around and it seems like no matter what explanation I come up with, it's just beyond our ability to even fathom. Well, do you think that NASA might have figured something out? Because I mean obviously there are all these sort of conspiracies around Neil Armstrong comes back. He gives a speech three weeks afterwards and he's giving the speech and he he looks kind of he goes this is a big step for mankind and he looks very kind of scared and sheepish and like he's been you know dragged out there and

possibly traumatized you know around what he saw. Uh and so yeah is there's something that we're missing in terms of the the story uh with the moon you know I think there's a lot we're missing. Was this created sort of as a noble mythology around the space race with the Soviets where we wanted to encourage [clears throat] maybe rightly so you know uh technological innovation and and and exploration and and the knowledge of a final frontier but uh maybe maybe you know we sacrificed ontological truth in

the process perhaps or we're getting closer to it. I mean I I you know what I try to do is I say you know there are cosmological and epistemological questions that I don't know if I could answer. So I I kind of like bring it in a little little closer. Um and I I think like in terms of this if if we look at the very narrow range of parameters that we see in our particular solar system, I was about to say about the moon creating this inner

tidal zone, you know, and if you if you're let's say you're geoengineering a planet and you're introducing life into the marine realm, you you have to have an ocean first of all. You introduce life into there, but in order to get the higher life, you have to bring it out onto the land. If that's a requirement to get higher sentient beings with with, you know, 1100 cubic centimeter cranial capacities able to think and reason and and uh all of the things that go along with our intelligence,

you have to go through a certain sequence of of of transitional phases. Well, to get from the the ocean onto land would be impossible essentially without an intermediary zone where you could where species could make that transition from an exclusively marine existence to an exclusively terrestrial existence that's provided by the intertidal zone. You know, even earlier early early um speculations about the origins of life

always went to these, you know, the tide pools um that form in the intertidal zone as being the the the optimum nurturing place for multi-elled life. You got all sorts of chemical reactions, primordial soup, but you take the moon away, you got no intertital zone. And now it's a whole lot trickier to get life from the ocean onto the land. M do you think in some ways, you know, maybe we're part of a cosmic war and that um you know, if you [clears throat] had to describe the two factions sort of very

roughly speaking, there's maybe one celestial faction that minds humanity for consciousness or sort of wants to keep us sort of in the fetal position or or repressed or dumbed down. and maybe Allah Roswell a lot of our internet technology was sort of dropped by these people uh to distract us constantly or not but not not people but beings and then there's some other you know uh uh there's some other entities that are maybe you know want us to ascend to their level and want us to so you the

dichotomy would be described by like you know antichrist and Armageddon and uh you know on the one hand you know the apocalypse the great unveiling you can you see more And then on the other hand, you know, we're we're sort of chained to our little cubicles and we're maybe being mined for something, you know, uh not not not, you know, unwittingly, if that makes sense. That's a interesting scenario and [clears throat] I'm not sure if I necessarily go along with it. Um,

you know, I don't rule out the possibility of interstellar contact. I am tend to be skeptical about the UFO phenomena being interstellar. You think it's sort of non-Capernican. You think it's earthbased. That's what like if you talk to Jacques Valle, he would say that they've been with us for thousands of years and they're sort of controlling like the earth in many ways is like you know they're upping and lowering the thermostat and they have a control system

and religion has a protoarchitecture that maybe these beings have created. Well, see, that's where my thinking where I tend to is is not so much these beings as being the other, but basically just being a separate branch of So interesting. Okay, so let's get into that. So are these the Atlanteanss? Well, there are traditions going back to the Calaldanss to the Samrians. I mean, I think Rob brought we have it right

here. They called the account of uh I don't know if I could find the passage immediately, but but there are references to when for example the great catastrophe overwhelmed the earth, the is your point that maybe at every civilizational cycle when there's cataclysm, some subset saves themselves. Yes. In fact, I think there's a tradition that's been handed down. Now,

this is speculative, but I think that one could make a pretty strong circumstantial [snorts] That there has existed since prehistoric times a tradition about these great cycles and how the planet is subject to periodic catastrophes. Let me let me Do you think we're verging on one now? Let me put it this way. I think that what happens is [clears throat] here's the analogy I've used many times. I think it's an appropriate analogy. Suppose you're on a

big racetrack and you're in a car. You're driving along and there's nobody else on the racetrack. You're let's say it's a country road and it's a huge big elliptical highway you're on and there's nobody on it, right? No traffic. All right? So, you're listening to your headphones. you're maybe, you know, texting while you're driving because it's cool. You're going down a country road, nice, spacious country road, and there's nobody else on it, right? You don't drive with the same attention and the same type of awareness

as you do if you're in rush hour traffic, obviously, right? I love driving on country roads when there's no other traffic and just sitting back enjoying the scenery, listening to some tunes, maybe, you know, having a talk now and then. Or at least back in the old days. In the old days, anymore. Not. No, not anymore. [laughter] That is way back in the old days, you know. Um, but suppose you're driving down the road and up ahead there's an intersection and it's a busy highway that crosses the

road you're on and there's traffic coming and going or they maybe they're all maybe it's one way. They're all going in the same direction for a little while. When you're crossing that intersection, the probabilities or possibilities of an impact of having a crash go up by orders of magnitude. Now, as you're traversing that intersection at this point now, you need to be cautious. You need to be aware of what you're doing. um presumably if you can accelerate or break as you need to. But

let's say you're in a car where you have no control over it's a one of maybe uh what do they call it? The robot the the the car self-driving cars self-driving cars. You're on a self-driving car. So, okay. So, now you're coming up to this intersection. You got to go, well, I hope that there's a space when I come up there. Now the probabilities of an impact of a crash are going to be totally dependent upon the density of the traffic. Do you do you think this is the hermetic reason to try to get to the moon?

We'll come back to that. Good question. Come back to that. So to complete the analogy is this. Um if you know that there are periods where you're crossing the intersection, there's two things to take away from this. It's not necessarily for ordained that you're going to 100% every time you're going to have a crash. It simply means that the periodicity is that there are zones where the susceptibility of a crash increases by orders of magnitude. Right? I think this is an analogy of kind of

like what we're in. There are places like for example, let's say that there's a red light somewhere down on this highway that you're crossing. So what happens is a red light when if if there's no red lights cars naturally gets spread out kinematically that's called okay if there's a red light everybody gets clustered right so the red light changes to green and now instead of cars spread out they're clustered and they're moving along together right let's say that for

whatever reason as you're crossing the highway there are zones where the density is fairly low but there's other places where the density is high. Right now, instead of a highway, you're crossing, you're crossing a meteor stream. Depending on how old that meteor stream is is going to determine how spread out the stuff is and whether or not there are clusters, clumps if you will, within that orbit. That's exactly analogist to the to the torid meteor stream. If you know that we cross that

torid meteor stream twice each year and that within that stream which covers millions of miles there are clumps. If you knew that you know what in such and such year for 10 years we're going to be crossing the stream when there's a high density clump there. Okay. So now you know that the the the danger it's not again for ordained that there's absolutely certain

that you're going to have an impact but what you know is is that the possibility of an impact goes up exponentially. Now if you're a civilization and you know that and you're aware of that what do you do? How do you plan for such a thing? I'd say there's two things. one, you [clears throat] try to take preventative action somehow to prevent the crashes to prevent that. How do you do that? Well, [clears throat] the idea I like most is that you are

actually able to move stuff out of the way if you've got a an advanced enough civilization. And we saw the very very first attempts at that with the Dart mission. Imagine that we continue the dart experiments um for another 50 or 100 years. I'd say we're probably going to be pretty good at being able to nudge dangerous asteroids out of the way. Maybe you get the the second stage of Starship which is much bigger. You know, one of these that might be able to move

something bigger. But let's say that you also know that there might be circumstances where particularly if you're in a clump if the difference between a single asteroid and a the shower of a fragmented comet nucleus will actually be two very different scenarios because in a in a cometary shower you might have hundreds of objects. Now [snorts] the other thing I said in the the summertime torids, late June, early

July, what happened in late June of Tunguska event. Isn't there speculation that the [music] 1908 Tungusa correct event was possibly correct? Correct. Because the Tunguska event took place on the 30th of June 198. [music] It was an air burst. It exploded in the air, flattened 2,000 square miles of trees, didn't kill anybody [music] because it was over an uninhabited area of Siberia, but did enormous, enormous damage. And the fact that it occurred on the 30th of June

suggests very strongly that it was part of the torid meteor stream because that is the peak [music] of the torids in Almost certainly a member of the Torid meteor stream. June 30th. June 30th. And it also actually its radiant point where it came from space. Remember, here's the sun, right? Exactly where it needed to be if it was a member of the So, the second thing you would do outside of deflection [clears throat] technology is move underground. Move to a place of refuge or a place of refuge, which could be the

which could be off planet and to a a civilization with space fairing capabilities. To me, the moon would be the logical place. So why would they have some sort of prime directive of non-interference if they're so far advanced, you know? So let's just assume let's this is we're crazy speculative territory here. I know that you know [clears throat] you're not you're not saying any of this is true, but say that there's aspects of the Atlanteanss. Say that there are groups

of Atlantanss that uh saved themselves and moved into sort of compartments of the moon. Uh and maybe they're the UFOs that we've been seeing. Maybe they use sort of water on Earth to refuel. Maybe they're actually underwater bases as Again, crazy speculation. If that's true, why do they seem to be so weakly entangled with human beings? [clears throat] Why do present themselves to us? I would say this. Um I think as we advance, like I look at what's happening

right now and I look at what our own government has done since World War II, it's interfered and intervened in a hundred different things, you know, engineering, uh, you know, uh, elections, organizing you know, economic interference, political interference, military And what we see now is we're sitting here moving close to a major

confrontation with the greatest nuclear power on Earth. Yeah. It's pretty scary. For what? For what purpose ultimately is the endgame of us trying to control eastern Ukraine? You know, man, I I it's Yeah. No, that's crazy. And it's it's provocatorish and and it's and it's scary. I think uh the the today, as of today, the Russians dispatched this nuclear ship uh and it's it's now above Norway. And so, and then uh you know, we just ordered all of our citizens to leave

Russia. And you know, we have no idea why. It's very scary. Crazy, crazy. And I think Putin has a tattoo that says Ben a knee for no man. And you know, obviously was president of the not the KGB, the FSB or were very involved in the KGB. Not a thug. Not a good guy. Now, here's Yeah. He doesn't, you know, none of the Soviet leaders were good guys, but we managed to avoid war with them. We carried on diplomatic relations. That's how we avoided war,

right? Um you know um Roosevelt met with with um Stalin. Stalin was way worse than Putin. Way worse. Way worse. Yeah. And I mean Stalin was um Time [clears throat] magazine's man of the year in 1945. Yeah. It was Well, yeah. But so we've you know from you know through from Stalin through Cruchef through you know Andropov Cash Cigan Yeltson male Gorbachev

we have carried on dialogues right this is not going on now well here's what my basic mapping of the [clears throat] world is it's almost like the globalist forces that repressed war over the last 70 years like the sort of neoliberal order [snorts] is in its death throws. Well, I'm hoping see and this circles back to your question. I think that what we have now is we have a

belligerently interventionist foreign policy. M I think that if we evolved to where our leaders were wise um you know and looking at the long-term picture they would realize that this kind of intervention is ultimately going to lead to the demise of civilization. Well the the US is running a loop that worked for some time. you know it it works and [clears throat] then you had you know desert storm and then you get Iraq in 2003 and then it's just continuous like sort of false flag

create an opus and then you go in and you know the dollar is it's a petro dollar it's tied to oil and so you create all these sort of mandates to be you know pretty aggressive and and almost be kind of a neoimperial regime and it and it really did work for a long time but it worked in a regime of economic growth um and domestic you know, relative domestic peace and uh it doesn't it feels like a cargo cult now like it's not working. You're running this like kind of loop that doesn't really work anymore.

And so it's scary. It is scary and it's it's leading us into a confrontation because there's no see when you go back to the days of you know the diplomacy and you actually had people running this country who I think had some level of consciousness about them. And you look at some of the the great leaders after World War II, you know, going say John Kennedy, he was to me a preeminent example of somebody who you can even see the the wisdom um just

in the few years that's that's emerging in his his understanding of the world. Um you know, we can certainly get into all the discussion of his assassination and all of that. I think that was a major turning point, but they didn't make people like even him today. Like he he won a Purple Heart I think in Vietnam or sorry, no, he won a won a Purple Heart in World War II. because he like dragged one of his people crewmen on of his ship by his teeth to shore two miles. He swam he

saved the guy's life. Yeah. And then they were like, you know, on on on the beach somewhere for for like two days until uh uh somebody in the air finally found them. Fighter pilot finally found them. And so, you know, that's not today's leaders. That's not you don't you can't find that anymore. It is not. And that's him. And you know, people then would probably call him soft compared to like Theodore Roosevelt. So perhaps so. But here's I guess the point would be this. I think that if we

survive as a civilization on this planet, it's going to become because the dominant powers basically become non-interventionist. In other words, I have neighbors next door here and we're friends and we communicate in this. We don't fight, right? I don't intervene in their business. They don't intervene in mine. And because we don't do that, we get What we have now is an a a a a

government that's totally committed to intervention around the entire world. This is full spectrum dominance. This is global hegemony. This is what there's a cabal within the US government that wants to dominate the entire planet. And one of the things the greatest obstacles to that dominance is Russia. Because for one thing, Russia isn't buying into the new world order that they're and and they've decided that they're going to disconnect from the uh the American dollar and perhaps

even go back to gold. Do you think that there um is [clears throat] a kind of a paramilitary group or there kind of old old wealthy families that might have leverage over the United States beyond the kind of It seems like prima fascia. It seems like it. I I don't know if there's really any hidden hands so much as I I'm kind of more of the mind that we can we can figure out and see who who the key players are. Do you think there are uh elements of the US government that are have retrieved alien craft and are reverse

engineering it? Well, now see that brings us back to the other question that you asked that we haven't really answered yet is why you asked this. Why have they not if these entities living wherever and we're we're speculating that perhaps based on the moon. You asked why they haven't Yeah. Why do they drop little things Well, I think at most I I I would think that's exactly how we would do it. Um, if we, you brought up

the cargo coats, if we were trying to make contact with a primitive civilization, let's say that there's a civilization on an island that, you know, I mean, for even in going into the 20th century, we know that there were advanced industrial cultures living almost side by side with primitive hunter gatherers. Say you're Indian now and you want to affect the North Sentinel who haven't been touched. Basically, what do what do you do? Like, you know, would you act like the Atlanteanss on the moon or

I would think that's how you [clears throat] would do it. So, so in what in your mind, what have they been doing? They've been airdropping tech here and there and well, maybe whispering in scientists earing up in our skies to let us know that, hey, there's something bigger going on here. And I don't think we need to go to the stars and think extraterrestrial for Yeah. because I think we could we I think we could make the case that that and and this actually fits quite well with some of the the ancient traditions

humanity has split on maybe even several And if we were faced with the kind of disaster on the scale of the younger dus now and we knew that that you know we a large comet comes into the inner solar system and we are observing it on a monthly and yearly basis undergoing a hierarchy of fragmentation events and we know that sooner or later we're going to have encounters where it's very likely

that this planet gets pummeled. What do we do? Well, we could do a bunch of things, but the main thing is we create create a place of refuge. And the logical place, and this is even scenarios that have been profered by is that a logical place for us to create a place of refuge would be the moon. And this is being presented with no reference whatsoever to the possibility that this may have once or more than once happened before. And in fact, think

about this, Jesse. What if there was a tradition that there was an ongoing place of ref just like think about the I the book the I how the Irish saved civilization. What happened during those dark ages of the of the 500s to like the 900s, 400 years where the advance the forward momentum of civilization almost came to a screeching halt, right? And [clears throat] we can see, excuse me, we can see the effects weren't just

cultural, they were also natural. We can see that there was literal times of darkness. Uh the years 536 to 542 AD were periods where, you know, the the the the the records of the monks and the the people who were living through that time talk about weeks and months at a time when they couldn't see the sun. That could be the result of two things. It could be a a spasm of volcanic activity that fills the atmosphere with stuff or it could be close encounters with disintegrating comets.

Fred Hy has done a whole scenario where some of the particulate matter of a disintegrating comet nuclei would so saturate the upper atmosphere and have be so highly reflective that it would that that thermal energy of the sun would get radiated back into space and it would do two things. it would create perpetual uh absence of the sun from the visible sun in the sky and it would also cause a plunge in the temperature. Those two things seem to have happened

in that period in the mid6th century. This in turn led to pretty much a collapse of civilization that took around 400 years for civilization at least in Europe anyway to recover. And that recovery occurred once the cold and the dark dissipated and the the warmth of the medieval warm period came back again in between uh you know around a th000 AD right now. Think of it this way.

[clears throat] you had during that period of time like you can again I would recommend the whole the book how the Irish saved civilization because during that time the Irish retreated into a series of and what they did was they dedicated themselves to preserving as much of the knowledge of the times uh the historical records the the the traditions to keep all of that alive [clears throat] and so you have Deritic and Celtic traditions being

preserved in these monasteries. And when the climate of the earth ameliated again with the with the return of the warmth and the sun, they were there with their They were there with their traditions that they had preserved. This helped to accelerate the recovery of Western So what if but if you're the Atlanteanss, why don't you just come down? You say, "Hey, we have this advanced technology. we can get a bunch of you up to the moon. Are they waiting to see who's worthy? Is that it?

Well, there could be a number of reasons for that. Um, limited space on the moon, I'm thinking. Well, that Well, there might be more space than you would anticipate, but the um the Earth is the moon is a fourth of the Earth's size. Is that right? It's a good 2.72, I think. Let's see. yeah, the moon is to the Earth as 11 is to three. Okay. So, yeah, roughly. 11 to three is very close to the Earth Moon diameter ratios.

Do you worry about a a [snorts] cataclysm or maybe answer that question first? Yeah. So, why why don't they interfere with us more directly or why would they try to help us more directly? Well, I think that um part of it is I think they have a very strict and of course purely speculative, but it would seem to me that if you advance to that level, you would most likely practice a strict non-interventionist policy. Why is that? Well, the same reason because there's always downsides. When we whenever we intervene, there's always a downside.

Oh, we're going to intervene with our foreign aid. Well, what happens? The foreign aid doesn't go to the recipients. It goes to a bunch of oligarchs and dictators who use it to oppress their people like the Iraq war. You remove Saddam as a sort of a pressure valve. And all of a sudden Iran is emboldened and ISIS. I think that what we've seen 20th century history has shown us that there's always blowback or the CIA trains Osama bin Laden and the Yes. Hajadine. That's what I mean. There's

always this blowback and at some point you figure out, okay, you know what? We're not going to intervene anymore politically or militarily. We'll we'll practice free trade, but there won't be a policy and and and so there's a huge difference between free trade and cultural exchange, artistic exchange that happens that brings people together. So Gene Rodenberry, the creator of Star Trek, had it right. Says prime directive, non-inference. Yes.

There we go. And do you think that gravity is uh do you do do you have a theory of physics that um maybe transcends gravity? Do you think gravity is maybe couched within electromagnetism or this gets complicated and this brings us into some of the where I'm at now with my studies? And and as I'm trying to wrap my head around plasma physics as possibly Yeah. in part of our own energy future

as well as possibly our remote energy Well, people have always wondered about gravity. Well, I've So, the two anomalies that I always look at in physics, and I'm an idiot when it comes to this stuff, but the things intuitively that I feel are off are gravity and time. And in relativity, those [clears throat] two are coupled in very weird ways. And then when you get to super subscale quantum, you you can't really reconcile that with gravity, right? And then you possibly get some time spookiness around subatomic scales as

well. That you know, that would be certain interpretations. Um and so yeah, obviously gravity's much much weaker than the electromagnetic force as well. Is there some sort of pulling force between celestial bodies that weakly correlates with its mass but that's more magnetic in nature or yeah I don't know how do you think about it? I don't really have thoughts on that so much as but thinking about you know the

whole issue of quantum entanglement and can I shift gears then unless you want do you think the the magnetic field of the earth is weakening which then allows for all sorts of solar storm events and I think scary X-ray I I think you know radiation I think it's more volatile and dynamic than it has been assumed. I don't you know what does it take to cause a magnetic field reversal? I think the last magnetic field reversal was about 700,000 years ago.

But there's also magnetic geomagnetic uh excursions they're referred to. What causes that? I don't know. I would certainly think though that what the events of the younger dus if anything would be capable of causing fluctuations within the geomagnetic field. those events could be and and why is that? So, there's a guy named Charles Hapg good who we've talked about and he writes about pole shifts. And there are people especially a lot of people online that are like you know

every 12,000 years the poles shift and then you know everything resets. That to me feels way too kind of neat and perfect and oversimplified. And so [clears throat] you have an interesting explanation for why the poles shift which then might result in geomagnetic anomalies as well. But there's something upstream of both of those, right? Well, I wish I had my globe sitting on the table here, which I will have here eventually, but the Earth is [clears throat] an oblate spheroid. The um equatorial diameter is 26 milesi greater than the polar diameter. So that

means that [clears throat] if you're starting at the equator, you travel at the equator to the North Pole, you've gone downhill 13 miles relative to the Earth's center of mass. You've gone downhill 13 miles. Okay. Now, as the earth is spinning, you have the distance, say, from the crust at the equator is going to be 13 miles farther from the earth's center of gravity than say Antarctica now or or the the the Arctic ocean

crust. Right? Now what happens is is during an ice age you have this gigantic transfer of surface mass. Right now at the beginning of the Wisconsin ice age we went from a state of basically less far less glacial ice on the earth than there is now. This is you know way back say 108,000 years ago. [snorts] Okay. So now over a period of a very short period of time in the geological

framework, you have this enormous transfer of mass out of the ocean basins up onto the continent up to the point where ocean levels worldwide drop 400 450 ft. You get 6 to 7 million cubic miles of glacial ice piled up on the Earth's Now, I've gotten very much into this the phenomena of how the crust of the earth responds to this redistribution of surface mass and I get very much into

that in my Atlantis 8 hour 9h hour Atlantis lecture that's available online for download if anybody is interested in diving into this further. Okay. So what happens is is there isostatic adjustment that's called which ever since the 60s we've accepted that there's lateral movements of the earth's crust. You know Hapg good in a sense kind of anticipated continental drift although in his scenarios it was much much faster than the models of CL continental drift now

is a few centimeters per year. And so supposedly, you know, if you have a um a uh [clears throat and cough] you know, coalescing where plates are coming together, you're going to have either an overriding of one plate or you're going to have a buckling. This produces orogenesis, the uplifting of mountains. Um if you got like on the leading edge of a plate, or if you're on a a separation zone like the mid-Atlantic ridge, it's going to be separating. Uh magma's going to be welling up from the mantle, spreading out. And this is how

they set up that chronostratographic framework based upon changes in the geomagnetic field because when the magma crystallizes it it freezes in it locks in the orientation of the minerals along the prevailing magnetic field. Right? So this is how we know that the magnetic field the primary way we know that the magnetic field has is actually quite dynamic. But now getting back to what I'm talking about here is that we're accepting lateral movement and we know just from Hudson Bay for example that uh

and [clears throat] even from oh studies around Lake Bonavville and other places that the earth's crust can move vertically. This is the isostatic movement vertical. Right now, up in Hudson Bay, it appears that the crust of the Earth has been depressed by the weight of the ice at least 1500 ft, maybe in places much more than that. Now, picture you've got a big beach ball, right? That's the That's the Earth. And let's say we decide to put massive amounts of weight at both of the

poles and it's going to compress the Earth this way. What's going to happen this way? It's going to expand, isn't it? The beach ball, assuming that that the amount of air is constant, the beach ball is going to try to maintain a a um a a uniformity, a consistency of volume. So, in other words, if it shrinks one way, it has to compensate by expanding elsewhere. This is why I get into the whole question of what happened with

Atlantis is because when you pile up 6 million cubic miles of ice onto North America and maybe another million cubic m 2 million cubic miles of ice over northwestern Europe, it's squashing down the crust. Right now, at the same time you're doing that, what you're doing is you're creating subsurface pressures. Also, as you're increasing the weight here, what's happening to the weight of the water in the ocean basins? Because the the water in the oceans is being

evaporated out, precipitated out as snowfall. But when you have the onset of a glacial age, the whole natural yearly annual hydraological cycle of the planet is completely disrupted. Like right now, what happens is that we get a lot of snow in Canada, northern United States. accumulates every winter. Spring comes, it melts, it goes into the rivers, it's transported back to the sea, it goes into the groundwater, right?

So, you've got this this um this in in the system, the amount of water evaporated out. It may [clears throat] in the summer it falls as rainfall, but and it immediately goes into the hydrosphere. If it's a northern latitude, Canada for example, northern Europe, it falls a snowfall, but then there's a delay of up to months at a time before it melts and reintroduces into the hydrosphere. Right? So now what happens with the onset of a glacial age? It is almost

this it would be almost and and given that we know about the time frames in which these climatic transitions can occur. It is almost as if somebody flips a switch, winter comes on and then it doesn't end for 10,000 years. But the conundrum and the problem is is you're still evaporating very large volumes of water out of the ocean basins to precipitate out and build up an ice sheet that's a mile, mile and a half, maybe even two miles thick. So there's

the paradox of an ice age. For one thing, it's got to be cold enough that that snow is piling up, compressing down first into fern, then to compress down more into glacial ice, but it's not melting. But at the same time, you're getting huge amounts of snowfall, which means that there's water vapor up in the atmosphere. And how does that water vapor get there? It requires heat. There's your conundrum. Can you explain that paradox? No, I can't. I have some kind of vague thoughts on

it, but let's circle back to this idea of isostasy. The onset of an ice age comes along. It interrupts that cycle. Mhm. Now, what happens is winter comes on to the world and it doesn't go away for 10,000 12,000 years. You've got this huge mass of ice pressing down. You have hundreds of trillions of billions of tons of ice pressing down on the surface of the earth. At the same time, weight is being released from the ocean basins. So,

what's going to happen naturally to the ocean basins? What's going to be the counterpart of the pushing down the isoatic depression under the ice sheets? It's going to go in the other direction, isn't it? The ocean basins are going to raise up [cough and clears throat] And then when you reverse that and you melt away the ice sheets, pour that water back into the ocean, what's going to happen now? The ocean is going to res basins are going to respond isostatically by

depressing the continents as we know from observations are going to rebound. Now think about what happens in the geophysical sense of the distribution of the continental masses, the crust of the earth when over a period of a few thousand years, which is just a geological instant. It's suddenly 2,000 feet out of whack with the latitude it would normally be at.

In other words, if you push down the ser the polar region, like say North America's pushed down 2,000 feet, you release that weight. It's now But when it's rebounded 2,000 ft farther away from the center of mass, now it's not in equilibrium with its latitude anymore, is it? No. So what is it going to try to do in order to achieve re-equilibrium?

I think that what happens is is that with the process of glaciation, rapid glaciation or rapid deglaciation, it induces a tremendous amount of instability in the Earth's crust that could manifest as an accelerated episode of continental of of lithospheric movement. And that would explain the pole shift. And that would explain the pole shift. But I don't think that it's something that occurs, you know, in days or weeks. I think it

takes several thousand years. And in fact, it's still happening. It's still happening. But one more thing within that, I think there are episodes where the transition just like what we saw happen in Turkey and Syria. The stress builds up on a fault line. It keeps building up and building up until finally it it overcomes the resistance of the rock. It moves and it creates a an earthquake. And you've said that there can be possibly tropical zones in Antarctica,

need to do an Antarctica expedition. Let's do it. You've been suggesting it, haven't you? I can't wait. Yeah, let's do. I'd love can we do the Azors first? Yeah, let's do the Azors first. It sounds more suitable for my disposition at this point in my life. Perpetual spring. Yeah, there you go. Yeah. More of a Caribbean cruise. Yeah. [laughter] Um, you've been a Freemason for over 30 Well, let's see. I was initiated 1978.

How many years is that going on? 45 years. Yeah. Almost. I was a young man of 27 when I was Okay. Okay. I was raised in March of became master of my lodge in 1990. Randall, you've been a Freemason for over 40 years. Unbelievable. Um, how does that dovetail with your interest in the origins of humanity and in these civilizational

I mean, very much. How do they connect? Masons are the custodians of a very rich tradition of ancient knowledge. what is that ancient knowledge? architecture, sacred geometry, astronomy, music. You're you build both homes and commercially during the day. That's your day job, which always fascinated me because I don't know how you know as much as you do about this sort of esoteric stuff and and the geology. And yet you are able to uh be we're we're

going to a restaurant later that you That's right. That's pretty cool. Yeah, it is very cool. Um well, you know, to me it's all intertwined. You know, my interest in geology, sorry, geometry primarily stems from early building projects I did in the early 70s. you know, building Buckminister Fuller Dome, for example. You built like you built uh what do they call Bucky? Uh yeah, Bucky domes. Bucky domes. Yeah, you built a Bucky

Yeah, a couple of them. Is that true? Yeah, that's true. I wouldn't I wouldn't make that up. So, that that got you into Freemasonry. Was Buckminister Fuller? Well, I didn't do it with Buckminister no. I mean, no, I never met Bucky. I would have loved to have met Bucky, but I didn't. No, I know you didn't meet, [clears throat] but but but uh but you built Bucky Domes and was he was he inspired by Freemasonry in any way? I don't I've never seen any evidence of that, but maybe my friend was just telling me that he went to this place called Black Mountain College or something or Black Mountain

University. North Carolina. North Carolina. Exactly. Which I've been there. Yeah. Freemasonic in some ways because it was so interdisciplinary and it taught Plato Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that kind of has served that way as a model a smaller scale model of the school I'd like to build, which we are going to build. Wait, so so how does what does Freemasonry have to do with this? Well, Freemasonry historically, I think we can trace it back to the the

conservative interpretation is it traces back to the early 1700s, but and when I became a Mason, that was a dominant view. I think there's been plenty of scholarship now that can show us succession going back to the middle And the building of the Gothic cathedrals. And I think there were two uh traditions that sort of merged together that that became the basis for modern firming. One being the guild uh this the lodge system of guild builders that actually built the cathedrals and

the Templar knights. M and because we find [clears throat] both very prevalent throughout modern How did how did the Templars [snorts] uh affect the Freemasons? Well, I think a lot of their particularly in things like the York right and and a lot of the ceremonies and stuff there's a lot of Templar references um things that seem to have parallels with what we know about Templar ceremonies and things. Um, so yeah, I think that the the two main streams that came together out of which

modern Freemasonry was born was the Templar tradition and the and the guild tradition of of of cathedral builders. So are these, you know, in popular lore, people see Masons both as very good, you know, the founding fathers were all masons, obviously, uh, and then and then sometimes evil and sort of trying to control the world or whatever. And you even read like Manley P. calls what is [clears throat] it like the secret destiny of America or whatever and it [snorts] just feels this like this sort of globalist aspiration. Well, I I'd like to point out that you

know if you know Masons are very proud of famous individuals that have been Masons. Um so it's well documented who's been a Mason in history who at present is is a Mason. Although here's the thing. If you start looking at all of the characters now that we think of when we talk about New World Order, when we talk about the World Economic Forum, the World Health Organization, when we talk about, you know, the the the the main politicians

that are, you know, when we look at all of that, you're not going to find any You know, you look at Claus Schwab, George Soros, you know, Bill Gay, you start going down the list. What are what are those people and what ties? I don't know what they are, but they're not Freemasons. Do you think they're old old European families that sort of I think some you know obviously the Rothschilds and and see here's the thing. You might have had some of these people become Freemasons obviously, but I here I'll point out several things.

You said you mentioned the founding fathers. A lot of them were Freemasons and they drew their traditions of the worth of the individual, of liberty, of democracy and all those were being practiced within the lodge system America was founded. Yeah. The Washington Monument is an obelisk and it's an obelisk. The eye of Osiris on the you know, again, you know, if you look like the biblical injunction, you know, by their works you shall know them. I

mean, Freemasons do incredible work and they they they uh any kind of recognition. They I mean to the extent that you know um I'll use an example. You ever heard of the Scottish Wright Hospital for crippled and burned children? No. Is that Freemason? Look it up. Look it up. Look up Scottish right Hospital. Yes. They they on average in America and I this used to be accurate since the

numbers of Masons have declined. This number may not be absolute accurate anymore but in round numbers uh m masonry in its heyday like when I came in in the 70s and the 80s and stuff a million dollars a day they raised in Million dollars every day. It's awesome. Yes. And it went to good works. Yeah. and Mason's a big huge part of the Masonic traditions is charity. Um, and that's the first thing when you're initiated, one of the first

things you're taught about is the importance of charity, taking care of your fellow man. you know, the whole idea of brotherhood and and brotherly love is right at the cornerstone of the thing, is it? And the the stuff that's being promulgated online is total garbage. That's garbage. That's my sense, too. I think if uh, Freemasonry has unfortunately lost a lot of its vitality. Like, oh, I wish our leaders were Freemasons.

So, do I I wish they were. I wish they It's both about you. Good luck finding anybody in the Biden administration that's a Freemason. Totally. Totally. [snorts] Um, and it's all it's all about sort of self-ultivation, but in a, you know, outside of obviously charity and and generosity and brotherly love, but in a well-rounded way as well and in a multid-disiplinary Yeah. way and in a way that's practical, too. and so practical very much the the idea of Freemasonry is very much about leading a

practical life but [clears throat and cough] the symbols of Freemasonry um you know the compass and the square the plumb bob you know um the plumb bob like how do masons meet you've heard of this um saying you know we conclude a business deal and we just I do a project for you you hire me you know we fulfilled all the terms of the contract. We're both happy. We end with a handshake, right? We go, "Are we on the level? Are we square?" Meaning,

yeah, we're square. We're good, man. We're both happy. Both of those are pure Masonic terms, right? Out of the Masonic philosophy, you know, are we square? Meaning, you is is everybody happy with this outcome? Yeah. We've had a fair exchange. Um, on the level, how do masons meet? On the level. So when you go into a lodge, it doesn't matter whether you're uh you know a millionaire businessman, corporate head, a plumber

or carpenter or a famous celebrity. When you go into that lodge, you're all on the same level. Yeah. And I've been in lodges where I'm sitting where there are retired admirals of the Navy and illustrious people who who've been very successful in society, but the master of the lodge sitting in the east with the gavel in hand who's controlling it all might be a carpenter. And when everybody walked comes in, it doesn't matter. They pay deference to the one who's sitting in the east

because he's the one who has just spent seven years climbing the Masonic ladder that now qualifies him to sit in the east and control all the proceedings in the lodge with his gavvel. Right. So that's how it works. How do masons meet on the level? How part on the square and how act? By the plum. Think about a plumb bob. You're holding a string with a weight. Okay, up. Think about morally uprightness. Think about

the term rectitude. See, these are the moral teachings that are just right at the very core of Freemasonry. And I've had people argue with me online say, "Well, you don't know because you know, you get up to, you know, you go through up to the 32nd degree, but then when you get to the 33rd degree, that's when you find out it's all evil and satanic and all of that." And I go, "Well, how do you know that? How do you know?" So, what you're saying to me, though, is I've been a

Mason for 30 years, 35, 40 years. I've I've climbed up to the 32nd degree and all of this time I didn't know that the third and I've sat in lodge with men that I highly respect that I know that are 33rd degrees that are pillars of their community that do so much good in the world but somehow I've gotten up to the 32nd degree and I don't know that really this 33rd degree is this evil cabal but you who's

challenged me who don't know nephen thing about it, the history of it. You read some online and now you think you know. And so you're going to tell me, oh, that that it's a secret that I don't know that the 33rd is actually this evil cabal, but you're so astute. You figured it out because you spent five minutes looking at something on the internet. It just it's so ridiculous. It would be laughable except for the fact that there are people out there who are totally

invested in this belief system, including the dumbass that I was once partnered with who built Sacred Geometry Interesting. Well, [laughter] um, these group, why do these groups always seem to get persecuted? like [clears throat] if there is a line back to the Templars. Well, you know, I think about the Templar story and um I believe uh they owned a lot of the debt. They had kind of an international banking system and they owned a lot of the debt of Philip the Fair, Philip IVth of Spain. And Philip

IV basically slandered them and said that they were doing they were engaging in all sorts of, you know, uh, weird rituals with each other. And uh, in fact, I think it was they were sort of dedicating themselves to something higher. And so they were, you know, the the rumors were that they were spitting on the cross and and and doing stuff like that. And I think in their mind, this is this is what I read from Rudolph Steiner, who's this Austrian philosopher. They were sort of simulating Peter's denial. And so it was it was all about

sort of dedication to something beyond symbology and higher, but obviously there ways to misinterpret spitting on the cross. And they all ended up getting burnt at the stake in 1307. And I don't know how much of that would have been, you know, you can see the smear campaigns going on today and you know that they're BS. You know, when you see, you know, the mainstream media closing ranks on Graham Hancock and calling him a white supremacist, racist uh promoter of dangerous conspiracy theories. And if you know anything at all, you know

that's complete BS. Right. But the idea is, you know, now they can't they'd like to, some of them would probably like to take and torture but they can't get away with that, right? Like they could have once upon a time. But look at this. Every time if you go through history and you look at what happens when desperates and tyrants and dictators take over nations, one of the first things they'll do is they'll shut down Masonic lodges. that's one of the Hitler did it, Mao did it, Stalin did it. They outlawed

Freemasonry. Now, if Freemasonry was really this secret cabal of Satan worshiping global controllers, why would that be? Why would every dictator then shut down a Masonic lodge? Right. The other thing I like to point out is of American presidents, 14 of them have been uh master masons. 14. Yeah. 14. But how many have been episcipalians? I make that point. 23. [laughter] That's exactly the point I'm I'm making. 23 of them have been Episcopalians.

So you could make exactly the same kind of argument with with just as much credibility that it's the Episcopalians who are the secret puppet masters of the globe. See, it's that ridiculous, right? Um do you think that um it was rumored that when Jacqu de Mole who is the last grandmaster of the Templars was persecuted that he had sort of a a theory of how the world worked that uh might have been somewhat subversive to like the setting authorities because because I do think that the

Templars were custodians of of advanced and they were also supposed to have you know protected maybe a a bloodline of Christ. This is another possibility. This leads us straight into the whole uh tradition of the of the Holy Grail. Yeah. So, what do you think the Holy Grail is the human heart or do you think it's something physical and real? I think it's a very complex it's an image for a very complex technology of restoration of regeneration of

and so on. And that technology can be applied from an individual all the way up to uh a nation all the way up to the planet. And how do you what's how do you even start to think about the Holy Grail which you know feels like an impossible to even conceive of? Well, you do what I did. I spent like a year or two just diving head first into the you know late 12th early 13th century grail romances from Craig John

Detois to Robert Deborah Ron to um from von Ashenbach to Parival. Exactly. That's what I did. So [laughter] there is headlong into the 12th and 13th That's it. Easy. [clears throat] Or, you know, uh maybe I'll, you know, part of what I'm trying to do is to provide shortcuts for people. You know, I have been a student of these

things since I was in high school in the late 60s. So, I've got, you know, half a century. And, you know, you asked like, you know, to me it's just I don't know. It's just natural. I I learn things. I tend to retain. I have good retention. You have amazing retention. Like as good as anybody I know. It's like it's an idetic memory. It's a I've been told it's an idetic memory. That's I I'm not definitely not photographic memory. Thank God. I don't think I'd want to be photographic memory, but idetic is that um yeah, I have good retention. I have a great what

I have is a a welldeveloped storage system and a good retrieval Yeah. Well, although my retrieval system sometimes lapses and I know that the information is there, I just can't get the drawer open, you know, and then later it'll pop open all by itself and I go, "Oh, okay. There we go. Okay. Yeah. See, there's my file on the holy grail. Let's see who said what." But, um, but yeah, see, I think that the mind is just, you know, it's it's the same way as any organ of your body. If you use

it, it gets stronger, more efficient. If you don't use it, Yeah. people tend to they get out of school and they they quit using their brain and they just instead of getting smarter through their life they just get dumber. I agree. I also think that the mind though needs a strong constitution behind it. I think the mind is pre-leveraged by um the stomach and by other other organs in the body. And if if if any of those are sort of out of line um the mind can often it

could be very powerful but if it's not well integrated that's like like right now my big challenge is getting back you know a decade of the last decade I've had a pretty tough time in some respects. Um Sorry to hear that. Oh well, you know, it's natural. And you know, it's main part of being in a human body and doing the kind of work I've done. You know, it was between, you know, construction work and extreme type sports things. You know, you don't come

through that unscathed. And I wouldn't trade it other than, you know, I've got issues that have have slowed me down and because of that, it's shifted my metabolism. But I have the resources now that I didn't have a few years ago. You know, my business was going like gang busters when the um when the real estate bubble popped in 2009 2010 and I had went from pretty good income to like very large debts within one year and the dissolution of my company.

Um [clears throat] so I realized then that that you know can have a big effect on you. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it really, you know, it it sent me reeling. Um, created a lot of stress. And stress can actually be a killer. Oh, it's really bad. It is. So, I've tried to do things now to de-stress my life. And, you know, it's working. I had a few years spell there where it was a struggle, but I thought, okay, I got to keep my eye on the the prize here. I've got to keep moving. Um,

And I got through it. Uh but now I've got residual effects that I'm dealing with. But you know I've got say la the l last few years you know my my access to resources has increased enormously as a result of what I've been doing. So I'm in a very position now to pretty much regenerate. May speaking of which and at the risk of displaying extreme hubris in this question, but also this sort of is emblematic of what I do with you all the

time. You are a man of uh you know helping other people with shortcuts. What is your shortcut to the Holy Grail? Oh, my shortcut for the Holy Grail would be that I have well, I've put together a whole where I break it down. I get into the authors and I analyze the symbolism. And I Do you think it's a physical thing or [clears throat] do you think it is I think I'll put it this way. I think it's a technology.

It's a It's a tech. Now we talked about within the human body or outside of it anything that's living. Yeah. It's it's a technology of sort of regeneration. Yeah. So for a debilitated body it can regenerate. For a debilitated wasteland. Does it explain sort of spontaneous remissions and healings and that sort of Well, in a sense perhaps yes. But I

think that understanding the applications of the technology may appear to be spontaneous, but I mean it just it there's a very interesting overlaps between the Grail stories, the Grail traditions and The Grail basically is like the counterpart to the philosopher stone. The philosopher stone, you know, is right? One of the things that conver

confers longevity. Well, so does the grail, right? M there's uh and in my presentations and in the things that I do publicly in lectures and classes in private meetings and classes and what I will be doing in the content that I'll be creating over the next year or two I'm going to be incrementally taking pieces of this information and disclosing it as much as possible. Do you think that

religion has a sort of protoarchitecture and that uh you know there are connections between Dionis and and Jesus and Diane rituals and Jesus and so you do? Yes I do. I I you know I look at the spiritual tradition almost as being like like a great underground subterranean river which periodically emerges and breaks through the surface and flows over the surface and it waters

the world. It it it brings the the subterranean minerals and the and the life replenishing waters to the world. It might be 200 years of the magnificent cathedral building which coincided with the the the the disclosure of the grail romances to the world which coincided with the trouidors using their their their spiritual songs and poetry to carry information sacred information

around the world and civilization. uh coincided with the first schools of Cababala that were established in Spain. corresponded to the rise of Catherism, of Templarism, of the Gnostic building tradition and the building of the magnificent cathedrals in Europe, the architecture of Southeast Asia, the final wave of monumental earthworks in North America,

etc. Something came out. Something emerged and it watered the spiritual fertility of the planet and then it went back underground. Do you think that we are living in another such age? So Carl [clears throat] Jasper is the German philosopher had a term called axial age and that was like a time when past meaning structures were sort of sloed off and you'd get these new sort of revelations. I think he used it to describe uh the 8th century BC to the

3rd century BC. You had Confucious and Lu and uh uh who else would you have had at that time? You know, Plato and Socrates and Aristotle. They were a little later, but yeah, during that period of time, I well, I think there are times where, you know, you do need new forms. Uh it it's time changes. You know, the the planet changes, the planet that we inhabit is um we have to evolve along with it. But at the same time, in order to maximize

the probabilities of successful successful transformations going into the future, we have to keep a a uh a viable vigorous pipeline to our own past because there are traditions I think that have woven their way through the whole history of civilization. And again using that analogy of an underground stream emerging from time to time watering the the the the meadows, watering the valley and then life and civilization is uh you know abundant and

prolific and then it goes back and then after a period of time the things are forgotten. You know there's kind of a drought. We have been in sort of a Yeah. in a sense of of spiritual wisdom and knowledge. And now we're at a point where I think the pieces are aligned where if there's a even a small group of people that understand these traditions and the power of these traditions that can take us back to a clearer and deeper understanding of our own origins, we'll

have a much better framework for understanding the potential of our future. And and it's it's it's it's I it is incumbent upon us now that those of us who are making these connections and realizing this that we do whatever is necessary to turn this tide that's leading us into Armageddon. Absolutely. Well, absolutely. there's there's external knowledge um and then in some ways external knowledge has a

limit and there's also sort of internal latent or dormant knowledge that can be somewhat activated and so how do you mix those two because you seem to be a person who's filled with external knowledge and yet some of this stuff feels somewhat intuitive as well and maybe maybe revelatory one of my mentors the late Keith Kitlo used to say the inner and the outer are reflections of one another and if If you keep that in mind and if you remember that then you realize that that the things we do externally

can be can be ritualized can be symbolized and have corresponding effects within the inner domain and vice vice versa. So, as we go into exploration of our own consciousness and our own subconsciousness, that leads us right back into the entire racial story of our species on this planet. If we recognize that, we can begin to see that

all of the external world is really a sacred symbol. And vice versa. See, it works both ways. The inner is a reflection of the outer. So we use the inner to learn more about the world and how it works and understand that the world is this externalization of our own And I think that's the approach and and we have to look at the world as a sacred So how do you because to me it's partially like some sort of holograph and I'll I'll talk to like you know a

boomer crystal healer and they'll say it's it's all you know an emanation from what's inside. the only thing that matters is, you know, interiority and and being self-aligned. And then I'll speak to, you know, some industrialist and they have no internal spiritual life and, you know, they're complete materialist reductionist and neither model is very charismatic to me. This is exactly my perspective. Okay. So, how do you uh reconcile those two things? Well, like where I said, I mean, you you you begin to look at at the things in the external world. You begin to look

for the sacredness and the symbology of the things in the world around you. Yes. But not everything is a symbol. You're not looking in the book The Alchemist where everything is like I'm you're wearing green and green's my favorite color so it's a great day, you know, like that's too much. There's too much. But then there's sometimes it does sometimes you are experiencing a real synchronicity that is some you know there's some esoteric underpinning and you're experienc the exoteric layer and that's a really exciting almost recognition of some primordial soul

knowledge in the real world and that's crazy. One of the things that I've been doing recently is I did a um I did a a presentation on Halloween to show the sacred origins of Halloween, the symbolical origins. And then I did one on winter solstice, Christmas, and that's the the the deep symbolical connotations of that going back transculturally way back into the past. I'm going to do another one uh Easter. I'm going to do up in Nashville.

Nashville. Am I going to No, no, no. It's out in Arizona near Sedona. Um we're going to be doing Easter kind of an Easter um recognition and coupled with that will be a lot of material on the Holy Grail and and with Easter that sort of matches like this tale of Pepan's quest to the Yes, very much. You want very much. Yeah. the idea of the the death and resurrection of the of the of the the royal personage, you know, the death and resurrection of the

king or the queen. Yeah. The crucifixion, you know, took place. Yeah. Easter is a recognition of the crucifixion. The whole crucifixion story is a Christian Christianization of the whole grail mythos. Yeah. because it it it very much the whole idea of the chalice is that Joseph of Arythea who took the body of Christ off the cross which is all symbolical. Um, I'm not I'm not saying that there wasn't really an actual crucifixion that happened, but even if there was, it

doesn't negate the possibility that it was also symbolical. And I think that maybe we to understand it we have to look at it in that um biodal fact that it was both symbolical that it was a a a recapitulation of the ancient mystery play which was the death and resurrection of nature, the death and resurrection of the royal personage, the death and resurrection of the world right? The death and resurrection of civilization. All of these things on these levels. Last time I was with you,

we did a you did a private presentation for me after our on air conversation where you presented this whole case for Jesus having not actually died. And you talk about the hissop as this actual sedative that he almost used to trick uh the governor at the time, the Roman governor Pilot who poked him with a stick and he was sort of like incapacitated but he was actually alive and he was sort of resuscitated by these herbs of Joseph of Arya. Do you sort of stand by that thesis?

first of all, am I making you uncomfortable right now? No, [laughter] it was not Pontius Pilate poking him with a stick. It was It was the centurion with the lance. Oh, it wasn't Pilot. No, it wasn't Pilot himself. He said Pilot was the one who said, "Who are you?" And he said, "I'm the king of the Jew." Or he said, "You you said you're the king of the Jews." You said that. I didn't say that. Right. That's Yes. He was the governor. Pontius Pilate was the governor. Yes. Okay. So, the centurion went and prodded Jesus to see if there was any response to know if

he was still alive. M now I think what I would rather do is I am planning to put a lot of this out there at some point uh probably early next year. Threads of this have been around for a long time. This is nothing new. It's no Brian Morescu believes this as well. He's the author of the immortality key. And he he believes that maybe this was some sort of mystery ritual where like you know you have the the guy with the water jug or whatever who's coordinating this. Yes.

This whole the whole last supper feels very coordinated, right? Yes, it does. And they're sitting and you know, you have the 12 disciples and then he drinks this this or whatever this drink and it maybe it's similar to the kekon in the Elucinian mystery rituals. Martin Luther King actually wrote a very interesting essay called the pagan continuity hypothesis about uh basically you know or was about the pagan continuity hypothesis you know pagan and and and Greek influence on early

and so like maybe these mystery rituals you know took place. Oh yeah. I I mean the the the archetype of the death and resurrection of the divine king is precedes Christianity by millennia. Um and to me, you know, that's and again, I'm not going to make any final definitive statements. I [clears throat] think we need to be open to well, like we talked about earlier, outrageous ideas. And one outrageous idea might be

that Jesus didn't die on the cross, like you said, and that there was a lot more to the story going on behind the scenes. And I think that one could make a plausible case for that um just by reference to some of the things you just named. And it's it's very instructive. If you go through um the gospels and you pick out the details, you can make a case that there is definitely something going on behind the scenes and this

thing was that it was the whole ritual was pre-planned for some reason. Okay. Now that what that reason would be that would be speculative. There was like an upstairs and a downstairs as well, right? In this Yes. the last supper was and of course you know then that brings us into the realm of the grail because the chalice from which they all drank at the last supper that is the grail. Yeah. And then that was the chalice that Joseph of Arythea collected

the blood of Christ when he was removing him from the cross. And it was sealed in the form of a cyoreium and that was transferred to the uh to England. And when Joseph of Arythea arrived in England, he met up with Arvaros, the the pagan chieftain, who then granted him 120 hides of land as the sacred precinct where he would establish the first

Christian church according to legend. And so there's a whole story there that that brings the Grail mythos into this whole question. And then you know then what happens is it gets convoluted there because we're getting as soon as we get into the the realm of the grail now we're in this realm that's very much like trying to make sense out of a Do you think that uh Jesus had a bloodline and he had kids? Well then that's see that's one of the

the hypotheses that if he did survive he could have generated a bloodline. And again, there's circumstantial evidence that points in that direction, but we don't have what could qualify in my mind as definitive. What's the circumstantial evidence? Well, traditions like particularly the origin of the Maravvenian king line in France possibly. I mean, because that was part of the the lore was that he escaped to the forest in France, right, with Mary Mary

I'm not familiar with that. Okay. Now, Mary Magdalene, according to some traditions, did travel with Joseph of Arythea, and she disembarked at the place that is now Marseilles. And I mean, Marseilles is named after Mary. Okay. That's where it gets its And so, so, okay, these bloodlines. So, you know, the kings of France, what what other possible, you know, evidence do we have or or just lore, mythology do we have around this? Well, most of it that I know of is is mostly like traditions,

legends, hearsay, that kind of stuff. I don't know, you know. Well, there is a possible way that we could determine or or now that is gets us to the shroud of Turin. Yeah, I was just gonna That's crazy you're bringing that up. I was just going to ask you about the shroud of turn. Can you tell the audience what the shroud of turn is? Well, it's a it's a appears to be a burial cloth with an image of a man on it. And a man looks like he's been tortured. And all of the

wounds are 100% consistent with the wounds described in the passion in the in the gospels, you know, the the the um the nails through the wrists, the crown of thorns, the piercing of the side, the whipping of the back, all of that. the holes in the in the feet. What was interesting about the the the um the uh shroud is that you know it was originally you know it first showed up

in history with the nephew of I think it was Jeffrey Desarie who was the last grandmaster of the Templars. No, Jacqu de Mole was but Jeffrey Desar was his Who? What? They were associate. Jo de Mole was the last Grandmaster of the Templars, I think. Well, yeah, he was the last. Well, so Jaffrey Desarie was the second second to last. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, got it. Um, so it was his nephew that had the shroud in his possession. And I'm a little vague on how that it ended up in the in

the uh in Turin, but it went through a succession of owners and it finally ended up in Turin and where it still is in the repository there. Wasn't it studied by NASA like a piece of the fabric and it was sort of Well, it's been studied by a group of scientists several times since they and they they said they debunked it or whatever. They said you know so but you have some interesting takes on this right about its actual veracity. Yes I again no definitive final proof

but I think we can show where the debunking was actually not a debunking how where at least the first the early ones in the in the 80s when they first did the the um the analysis. Now, there have been several things that have been done, scientific studies that have been done since that first one that was approved by the Vatican. I'm not up to speed on what the results of those were, but it does appear that they contradicted some of the the debunking claims. Um, but

going through the debunking cla claims, I could actually I think show you where I think um the debunking went wrong. I couldn't do that without preparation. I mean, because I haven't really looked at the Turin Shroud thing for at least 10 years, but um and I know there's been some additional studies on it, which I haven't followed up on, but I have a very I have a pretty comprehensive mass of material on the shroud and the testing that was done in the 80s and the early 90s. So, maybe sometime we could

do a a uh an interview based pretty much on that. That would be great. But it it but but maybe give us a little teaser on, you know, where the conventional debunks were wrong. For one thing, it came in which part of the shroud did they actually test? there were several repair jobs that were done to it. And so you have se several pieces of cloth that were much younger than the original piece of cloth. So if you test that instead of the

original piece of cloth, obviously you're going to get a much younger date. Interesting. And so why do you think there was some sort of incentive to debunk this thing? You think they were bad faith actors? What? And so what what is that to kind of because whoever whoever's the image was and of course the claim is that it was painted on there by an artist and and and I kind of don't like to put out vague generalities without getting into the precise specifics because that's how science works. You can't just say, "Well, this may have happened, that may

have happened." You have to actually be precise and you have to come up with definitive evidence and lay out your your your chain of reasoning and and the evidentiary support for that chain of reasoning which in a casual conversation obviously we don't do like if we were going to if we were going to do a a discussion about the shroud I would review all of my notes and we would have some graphics some images to look at and so on. But let me put it this way. I think it boils down to this. If that was not a painting, and I think that we can

make a very strong case that it was not painted on there by an artist. Um, if it is some kind of a photographic image, you know, it's a negative, right? You knew that. So if that was taken over on a a a man wrapped in a shroud, the image of the man in the shroud, even though all of the wounds are consistent with the biblical description of the wounds of Christ, the man in the shroud was not a

The man in the shroud was living. How do you know that? Well, several reasons. The main reason is this. This is how the arms were folded. Right now, if you got a corpse laying supine and there's no heartbeat, all of the blood pulls up in the bottom of the of the body. It doesn't flow out. Right? the highest points of the wrists,

blood has been flowing out the feet. The blood is flowing. You can tell from the shroud that the blood from the wounds was flowing, which means that the heart was pumping, which means that the individual was not a corpse, but a living body. There's also evidence in the original Greek of the scriptural evidence itself in the words that are being used to describe and I'm not going to get into that right

now, but I would want to have those words in front of me and it show you then um the meaning of the these words that are used which imply again the same thing that this was a living being, a living man. But in the Christianized version, Joseph of Maraththea took the the grail cup, which was the cup used at the last supper, right, by Christ and the disciples, and from the wound in Christ's side, he caught the blood and the water issuing

forth, sealed that into as a cyoreium with a with a cover on it, and then according to legend transported that to England where he met up with the pagan chieftain Arveragos. who bequeathed to Joseph and his 12 followers or disciples 120 um hides of land. And a hide of land is 120 acres traditionally in Britain. And so and

that was established to be the sacred At the center of the pre sacred precinct, again according to legend, a small circular church was built that was just under 40t in diameter and it was built out of waddles which were sort of um almost like woody [clears throat] vines or something. So it was built [cough] and that that chapel was maintained for a long time and then eventually fell into ruin as was

replaced by another circular chapel that maintained the dimensions of the original and that eventually decayed and then in the 10th century I believe it was an abbey was built there where the width of the abbey was the same as the diameter of the original circular chapel that fell into ruin and it was replaced by Glastonberry Abbey. There was a chapel built on the uh west end of

of uh Glastonberry Abbey dedicated to St. Mary. Now whether that was Mary Magdalene or the Virgin Mary could be either one. It's called St. Mary's Chapel. Its width of 39.6 6 feet it is said preserves the diameter of the original chapel. Now the 12 hides of 120 acres each that meant that the sacred precinct acres and 1440 is the one of the key

numbers in the whole sacred cannon of numerical cosmology. You know there was 144 cubits in the wall the circular wall around the holy city. There was 144,000 who were the redeemed of the earth, which I take to be Isn't that the latitude of the pyramids, I think the latitude of the pyramids is close to 30°. Okay, never mind. Yeah. Um so I think that the 144,000

could refer to the 144,000 that are going to save this planet from self-destruction. Mhm. And if we can get 144,000 of us that are committed to to that work, which is the great part of the great work of our time, we will be able to have a future without being sent back to the dark ages and struggling to survive for another few millennia, man. you'll be in that. So, I want to shift

gears to Atlantis. The story of Atlantis uh came from Solon. Mhm. Uh who was Plato's [clears throat] great uncle? Is that right? Or I think great uncle. I mean in the lineage uh I believe it was um Solon to Dropus to Critius the Elder to Critius the Younger who then presented the story at the Socratic forum. At the Socratic in Athens and so and Solon [snorts] got it from Egyptian priests and Sius I think was the name. Was it

Crantor who gave the name? I don't remember but yeah and there's a a guy uh named Jimmy Corsetti who um was just on Rogan and he he and you know Jimmy met important haven't met him personally but we've had some great interaction over um you know digital digital things. Yeah. And so he's presented a theory that uh maybe Atlantis existed in the the richot of Moritania of Moritania in Africa. And you I know

I've talked to you about this many times for for years have a different theory about maybe uh an area in the Mid-Atlantic ridge that is currently underwater. And I I still hold to that and I you know I've looked at Jimmy's stuff and here's what I would say about Jimmy's stuff is that he's done some really interesting work there with the recap structure. There are some some some parallels that are quite striking. However, when you break it down and take Plato's detailed accounts, I don't think it applies to the recat structure. And in my presentation that I've done um

again that people can get online, I forgot what we're charging for it. It's pretty affordable, but they can download like an eight or nine hour three two-part three-part lecture where I break it all down. And I do devote like probably an hour anyway to an analysis of the recap rehat structure. I think it's rec. Um but um what I do say is that according to again in my lecture what I do is I go okay what if we just took Plato's details literally

do they hold up under what we now know about oceanography geology marine geology astronomy geography etc does it hold up is there consistency and I bred a lot of books on Atlantis and the many places it's been proposed. Um, and in every single case, you have to change the details of Plato's account. Let's say that you accept the island of Terara and the Santorini

eruption was the story behind Atlantis. Well, this happened 900 years before Plato. So, the assumption is as well Plato made a mistake by a whole order of magnitude in dating. you have to change something. You, you know, it's been proposed to be, um, southern England, uh, Cuba, uh, Turkey, the list goes on and on. North America. North America. Yes. Now, Graham Hancock sort of implied that in

America before. Well, here's what I would say. Mhm. If we take Plato's account as being legitimate to some extent, he's describing an a midatlantic island-based empire with sophisticated maritime and navigational skills. Well, right there you have the the possibility of there being colonies all over the damn place.

Northwestern Africa would seem like a very obvious place to have outliers to have colonies. So, but why do you think why is it your base case that it is there in the center of the Atlantic and not well that's what I get in Yeah. And that's why it took me eight or nine hours to explain. Turn that into two minutes, Randall. Because it during an ice age world that was of one of the most favorable places on the planet for

uh a civilization to evolve. That's why for many reasons, but you know, our good friend, our dear friend Rob Reinhardt that recently visited Atlanta, who you know, I was hoping maybe we could persuade him to talk a little bit about, but I don't think he wants to. So, we're not going to go impose upon Rob at this time. Um, what we'll do is we'll just talk about him as if he wasn't sitting right over I like that. Let's do it.

I actually don't like Rob. He's got you. Oh [laughter] Well, uh, so anyways, I was really excited to hear that our mutual friend Rob recently visited the Azors. Yeah. And I think the implication of that is Rob is now going to be integral to this Azor expedition, Azor tour that has kind of been sort of germinating for a couple

of years now. Let's go. Is that possible, Rob? All right. He's not going to speak, but he Everybody, he is nodding his head. He's nodding his head. Well, yeah, we should we should I would love to go we should do a follow-up where we go to the Azor. That sounds great. Well, so it was sort of climate wise it was just optimal. That's the reason that you think it's there. Are there any? Oh, yeah. Multiple reasons it was. So that's number one. Give me the super highlevel summary. I know it's annoying because you have so much unique facts in your head. Super high level. It is uh

from a climate perspective, it's optimal. What else? Number one. Number two. Well, I mean, okay, so what I talk about in the in the in the eight or nine hours is how isoatic adjustment shows that that a large port that that what we're seeing now, those islands are the tops of mountains, sunk in mountains. And I get into the I get into the evidence for that. I mean, I show that, you know, the the dredging of the ocean floor, the core samples, the findings, the of submerged shorelines and things.

There's a very strong case because the map looked entirely It's like the map of Piri Race where you have the sort of uh tropical parts of Antarctica that are shown uh you know at the top. The Rontius Phineas that shows parts of Antarctica. Yeah. I mean, and Graham makes the case that's never been refuted, which is that the this knowledge of geography comes from some culture that had had the ability to navigate the world.

Okay? So, optimal climate for living, number one. Number two, well, now you've got you're strategically poised where you've got access to Africa, Europe, North America, and South America. So, all the land masses. So now if you're interacting with people, resources, all of these kinds of things, you're you're you're strategically placed where you've got fairly regular access. I mean, literally, it took what

Columbus 6 weeks to sail. All right. That means that if you're poised on a large island or island complex in the Mid-Atlantic, you're three weeks of sailing your to Africa and Europe, three weeks of sailing to North and South America. Yep. And now you've got access to all of those resources. It's pretty awesome. Yeah. It seems to me that for multiple reasons that would have been a a an ideal place for a civilization to evolve when sea levels were lowered by 400 ft

and the mid-Atlantic ridge was probably 1,000 to 2,000 ft higher than it is now. A lot of esoteric traditions talk about involution as opposed to evolution. And there are rumors that maybe in the past um in in past civilizations uh homminids have been giant and we've found sort of possibly giant bones. Graham Hancock has talked about this. What say you? Well, I would say that I've never seen a giant skeleton myself, but I've I've

taken some pretty deep dives into some of the actually archival stuff. You know, the Emory Library where I used to do a lot of research has an incredible collection of 19th century writing, state archives and and records of, you know, early archae Bureau of the American Ethnological Society, the early Smithsonian papers. There's an incredible wealth of stuff in there. And and in fact in one of my presentations which I've not yet presented in a public

forum uh I've pulled a lot of that stuff together. The excavations particularly associated with the monumental earthworks giant skeletons. Those accounts are repeated over and over and over again that in the excavation there's a giant skeleton dug up sometimes seven feet sometimes eight sometimes even nine feet in height. Now [clears throat] these accounts of course the skeptics say all these were just hoaxes and made up and you know yeah maybe in some cases yes but look there

was no internet so for somebody to get you know 10,000 likes if they went and said that they discovered a you know it's going to be Dr. so and so and Reverend so and so that's out there excavating with with a group of local towns people witnessing the excavation and they dig up an 8ft skeleton. I'm just not buying that you can just dismiss that and throw it out of hand a hoax. Well, if you think about the trajectory of mankind now, it feels like we're moving from, you know, if we were

wolves in the past, we're turning into and we're being domesticated and you sperm count or testosterone. So on a human kind of body hormonal level and then and then probably size of body as well. It's like this has become vestigial. We're not hunter gatherers anymore. You're not that's not being selected for [clears throat] anymore. And so do you think yeah I mean you think about sort of these these possible large homminid creatures in the past and then there are a lot of traditions that talk about demigods

the you know in the book of Enoch you had the watchers that you know mated there were giants in the earth in those giants in the earth do do you ascribe to possibly uh you know any of the theories that ancient alien astronauts might have come down co-mated with mankind and we are their descendants. Uh that's kind of a sticky question. Um well, let me just say I think about every human and there's something very depraved about them.

You know, it's like we're very we're very apelike in some ways and then we do have sort of this divine spark in other ways. We we feel wholly separate from the rest of the animal kingdom and yet also sort of a part of it. And so I've wondered about, you know, this theory as a possible way to explain it perhaps. You know, I'm I'm very open-minded. I I certainly don't sit here and claim I've got final answers on all of this stuff. I you know I don't know if I can't even say that I wish I did because half the fun of life is figuring this stuff out. The journey of

discovery the mystery. Um but I do think that as you go along and you you you think about this, you study, you learn, you meditate, you contemplate, you do discover answers to some of the questions. You know there are there are mysteries and then there are greater mysteries and lesser mysteries. The ultimate mystery I don't know I don't you know I I tend to be agnostic about that. I will say in a more pragmatic sense though that when we go back to the

late ice age when we go back to the late plea scene I mean my god look the imperial mammoth stood 16 feet tall at the shoulder. The American place to seen lion was the size of a horse, you know. Um, gipadons were armadillos the size of Volkswagen beetle cars um of golf carts, you know. I mean, the list goes on. The the the the giant cave bear, the Ursa Spalius, the bear that stood six feet tall at the shoulder and 12 feet tall when it stood up on its hind legs. There

were giants, right? If there were all of these giant the Irish elk with 10 and 12 foot antler spans for Christ's sakes 8 foot tall at the church. Can you imagine encountering one of those things? Talk about an impressive beast there. But if you had all of these mamalian megapa oversized compared to today, why not people? Well, also yeah, how would you survive in that context if you weren't megaized? You know, you had to be awful smart. You had to be awful smart. And then you have all this megalithic architecture

that 10 20 30 ton and and and I think that that gets us into the technological discussion. And because of the the things that I've been learning lately, I think I'm honing in on what that technology was that they were using. And we could do another discussion on that. It to attempt to do that now would be premature. Um because there's still holes in my game and I don't necessarily have all the pieces together. But my instincts tell me that yeah, we have to be looking at these

plasmoid technologies could provide the uh the answer to things like levitation large stones. It's interesting. I mean, an area I've always been interested in is this study of parasychology, which is, you know, uh the idea that there's some sort of mind over matter effect. And to be honest, it's it's a very poorly assembled group of people and and work. It's often not rigorous and it was definitely marginalized and it was chronically sort of underfunded

and didn't really go anywhere and there were sort of scaling problems to it. it was hard to sort of instrumentalize and yet if you look at some of those you know albeit somewhat smallcale studies I'm convinced if you look at the actual data that there is a weak mind over matter effect and uh [clears throat] the ability to cultivate that maybe uh you know is that that that that's an interesting question can that be cultivated and there biblical references to to things like that you know maybe Jesus was the

ultimate par parasychology ology practitioner. Um, have you ever had a what you would think of as a parasychological experience? Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I have. Something you talk about or Yeah, I've had many. Well, I haven't had many. I've had a few. Well, parasychological. I mean, I' i've seen UFOs. Okay. So, I I don't know if that's par I I think that it could be. I I think on one level maybe there is a parasychological component to the UFO

I think I think there absolutely is. But then um as far as like seeing you know something levitate or something you know like you know engaging in telekinetic powers or I've had some weird Okay. The Yes. The parasychological stuff I've experienced calling things very early like predicting things in bizarre ways. Not even coming from my conscious intellectual mind, but it's like it gets zapped into me and I I I experienced like a premonition or something. Yeah. Which I think a lot of people have

Yes, I I have too. I I've had a few things that have been, you know, you could dismiss them as coincidence. I think when I was about n 18 or 19, my best friend from high school that I worked with and his older brother um were out somewhere and I was home sleeping and I had this intense dream that they were in trouble and got busted to the point where it woke me up and it was about 2:00 a.m. And the next morning I go to call my friend and I couldn't get a hold of

them. And it turns out that at 2 am him and his brother got busted for dope and they were sitting in jail. Now, how the hell that always struck me? That was bizarre. That I actually had this dream. It woke me up and then I Oh, that was just a dream. I went back to sleep and then the next day I find out that literally right around the time I had that dream and woke up, they had gotten pulled over and got busted for dope. Well, it's interesting. Scientists are now saying that quantum computers can

send information back in time. And we know that there's temporal non-locality in entanglement. You know, if you have photon A and photon B, if you measure photon A in the future, it affects photon B in the past, which is pretty uh awesome and uh and and interesting. And so maybe um you know there's this concept of the long body and uh you know we experience anesis when we're ported into the limited prism of our physical body and maybe we can glitch into the long

body and access our almost it's almost like prememory our future cognitive knowledge our future state um through some sort of quantum which is very interesting and you know people have tried to find, you know, uh, literal physical analoges or physical explanations for what could be that quantum sensor. And there's a guy named Steuart Hammerov who thinks that it's the microtubules in the brain. And I don't know if that's exactly right, but

that could explain some of this sort of the the premonition stuff. I I think that's I I would agree with that. You know, to me, it's obvious that the human brain and body is not a classical computer. and people like Turring who've suggested that in the past. I think you're sending people into a culde-sac with this whole AI thing. This leads me into, you know, the whole concept of quantum entanglement that somehow there is this something that, you know, there's some level that transcends time and space as we know it. And interestingly, this seems to be one

of the implications that is coming out of plasma physics when you're dealing you know, things on the atomic and subatomic level. And [clears throat] this is something I'm, you know, very much in the infancy of learning about. Um, but you I showed you the slideshow that I put 240 slides over the last three months to help me well, it's doing two things. one, it's it served to to uh for me to learn about

the system, the the the the methodology, the philosophy, the ideas, but it's also going to be used to present by um by the leading scientists of this system to to various entities around the world that have already shown an interest in implementing the technology. Do you think that the military-industrial complex is hiding uh any knowledge around fundamental parasychology? And the the reason I ask

the reason I the reason I ask is because Ben Rich [snorts] who was the head of Lockheed Skunkworks on his deathbed said we have the the ability to go to the stars whenever we want and we've built it. And a journalist asked him, "Well, how do we do that?" And he goes, "Well, have you heard of ESP?" And the journalist goes, "Yes." And then he goes, "Well, that's how." And then um there's a guy named Bob John who was a plasma physicist who worked at Boeing who then went on to run the Princeton pair lab the parasychology lab. And so I

think about that you know connection as well you know where he's working at Boeing and then he he and on plasma and then he goes on uh to work on sort of parasychology and I wonder if there is an interesting connection there. And I think about the modern UFO story and it's usually trying to push people away from thinking about parasychology and towards more kind of nuts and bolts materialist reduction reductionist explanations of how the craft works. And in fact a lot of people say when the crafts crash there's

nothing inside the craft. So um there there must be an interface between the mind of the occupants of the craft and the craft itself. And so it has to be somewhat parasychological from that perspective. I think it's parasychological from the viewer's perspective of the craft as well. And it it feels like that's the thing that's been stigmatized and marginalized. Um you know, you don't want you don't want people thinking about parasychology. You'd rather them think about, you know, um speed of light limits and and right physics,

which takes us into a realm that's probably beyond our um our time frame tonight. Wow. Well, let's eat cuz we're going to miss dinner and we got to we got to go to your restaurant and I'm getting hungry. I've worked up an appetite. Same, man. Yeah. Randall Carlson, Jesse Michaels, [laughter] this is the best opening of all time, man. I It's an honor to speak with you. I I I consider you a really good friend at this point. We always have amazing phone conversations.

We do. I think I consider you a good friend as well. Well, thanks, man. We need more people like you in the world. Two years ago, I went to Decatur, Atlanta, and we did an interview. We did a sit down and I felt like I was kind of low energy, and we never put it out, but it was like this amazing two-hour thing, and a lot of it was around how the moon is possibly this anomalous like alien spacecraft. Well, now you're giving away secrets, but it's okay. She's an insider. So we were talking about how the moon might be this anomalous you know object. The

conventional explanation for how it formed that an asteroid hit the earth and it formed this perfect you know sphere. You never see the dark side sort of just rotates around us. And then there are all these sort of ancient myths that involve a pre- moon period right and the moon actually kind of settled the tides or whatever pre younger dus period. So I I and then you found some really interesting anomalies when it comes to the moon as well right? Oh yeah. I don't necessarily think that there is a record of humans witnessing a

time when there was no moon. Uh there could have been a time that there was no moon if we accept the capture theory which was one of the three dominant theories up until the impact theory gained dominance. We had the the uh capture theory, the sister theory and the daughter theory. Those were the three. Um all three of them have problems but [clears throat] the capture theory has the idea there is you know you have to somehow it's coming from somewhere else and it gets trapped into

this [clears throat] orbit around the earth but the capture window is so small you know it' be almost like we're trying to shoot a dime that's a mile away with a rifle something like that I mean it's the capture window is extremely small and it's because of the mathemat mathematical pro problems that that theory has not gained much credibility. But what they did is they kind of combined several theories that you had in order to get the chemical ratios and

not prepared to get into the technicalities of it, but I've seen some pretty exhaustive treatments of the mathematics of just that. And it's extremely challenging to get from a ring of debris around the Earth to the moon that we see today. Y it's one thing to say, okay, here's a big impact. Stuff gets thrown out, forms a ring. Okay. But now to get to from that ring to the moon that we have today with all of its unique features that

gets problematic. So how do we explain because it's amazing you know when you look into your work and Robert Beval's work Graham Hancock uh all these all these people Robert Shock John Anthony West it seems very apparent that you have all this archaeology that's far older than we date it to and that maybe you know the uh the uh pyramids for example are are much older than than we think maybe you know the the um sphinx at Giza actually there's lime gemstone

dam water damage on it. There's erosion on it which would imply, you know, not this like desert, you know, uh temperature. Uh and so what do you think about when they were built? Like is there is there sort of a positive version of that theory? Because I think what I find frustrating is it's clear the negative thing is clear. It's clear that archaeology is wrong and that our history is much older than meets the eye. But can we actually date uh any of these things? Obviously, you can't date stone, but can we approximate when these things were built and what society built

Well, one thing you can do though with stone is you can um use luminescence dating, which I'm not going to try to get into a technical explanation of how that works. But basically, if you have a piece of stone like let's say in in the Sphinx, you've got this body of the Sphinx and then you've got this it's literally was a quarry around it, right? Have you been there? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So you know then that the sphinx is actually the body of the sphinx is below the grade of the of the of the ground level. The head is above

but if you look at those walls right so before those stones were quarried that was all underground and it was it was not um accessible by cosmic ray bombardment. However, once you've removed the rocks and exposed it to the air, to the sun, to the air, to whatever, now the cosmic ray bombardment causes spalation, which creates which then can be by counting the

I think where you know and I love all the people I just mentioned but like where you can poke holes with Graham Hancock is or or any of these people's work is it's clear these things are older but when can you date them to and when exactly were they built and if he's trying to win in his arguments against um you know the Ministry of Culture and and and [clears throat] Haz and stuff then like it's very important that uh you they have sort of smok and gun proof and if you can get that smok and gun proof it would be great. Like let's take the snakes for example.

I I've [clears throat] been there. I've seen it. I've studied rock weathering. I've studied limestone weathering in the field. I'm convinced that that it is water erosion. Well then what you have to do is turn to other fields of science to determine when there would have been enough water to do the erosion. The erosion. See the Sphinx itself, the body of the sphinx sphinx has been subjected to these restoration campaigns. So now there is, you know, are you looking at a original piece of the Sphinx or are you

looking at a later part of a restoration campaign? You you dispel all of that when you're looking at the Sphinx ditch, right? Because nobody's done a restoration campaign um against that west wall of the of the Sphinx ditch. So what you've got there is pretty much the pristine erosion that happened after those blocks were removed, right? And those blocks were removed using your I imagine typical um you know separation trenches, cutting

them loose, moving them out. And typically if you look at a at a at a quarry wall that has been even modern that uses modern um technologies and ind industrial processes to remove the blocks you'll have this kind of stepped profile. And there's a lot of old uh quaries limestone quaries along the Nile that are supposedly about the same age as the Sphinx. But you can look at the walls of them

and you can literally pick out the the chisel marks in the walls, the uh the pick marks. And in the sphinx ditch, you would assume that would be there, but there are places where the where the surface profile has been eroded back over two feet. So you've had two feet of limestone material removed. Now we go to another scientific discipline and we can

dis we can look at climate change in Egypt and we can tell for example not we but the the scientists that have been studying it can tell when there was like lots of rainfall in Egypt. And there was, this has been documented independently by numerous researchers, that there was copious rainfall during the transition out of the ice age. And freshwater uh muscles and other remnants of of animals that live in the Nile have

been found 120 to 150 ft above the present day flood plane of the Nile. So what that means is is that that water if it's 120 to 150 ft above the modern flood plane would easily submerge the Sphinx underwater. Now secondly if you go to the east back up go to the west you're looking at an UPS slope gradient there's evidence of massive hydraulic movements of water across that which would have also

submerged the Giza plateau. Now the dating of when that occurred is usually given as around 12,000 years. Mhm. So I was already aware of that dating when I first encountered the work of John Anthony West, the late John Anthony West who who was basing his work upon an insight that he got from Schwaller Dubich who first proposed that the Sphinx was water eroded eroded and therefore had to be

much older than Old Kingdom Egypt because it's been desert there since Old Kingdom Egypt. And so what I did is I undertook studies of limestone erosion under all kinds of different environmental and energetic circumstances to to try to determine a various scenarios of how you you know the erosion of the sphinx and the the ditch the quarry. I primarily focused on the quarry walls rather than the ditch itself for the reasons I explained ear

just a minute ago. And what I [clears throat] came up with was pretty amazing because um foram um gravestones have been those are really useful for uh determining erosion rates of different kinds of rock. There are many many gravestones that were like see the thing is is when you put that gravestone into the ground and it's the date of the person that died well that's the date at which that gravestone was now. So, if you had it 1850, somebody who died, I I

live next to a cemetery where that has pre-Ivil War dates in it. And you can look at some of those gravestones and they're very eroded. Some of them you can't even read the inscriptions on them anymore. But, so the idea is that if you have a gravestone, you put it in the ground, that date of death on that gravestone is going to be pretty much the date that that gravestone was now set out there and exposed. So you okay well if this was 18 1850 or 1870 or whatever you now can know how

long this has been sitting in the environment subjected to the rain and the wind and the weathering. So that's one way you study. The other way is there's there have been like on limestone cliffs that are next to a highly energetic um intertital zone where the surf like you see out there is washing up against the against the cliff. Okay. So, let's say that. So, here's what what some researchers have done. They've come in, they've drilled a hole into the side of the cliff, and

they've inserted a a a metal tenon into that hole, measured very very carefully how much of that tenon uh is exposed out of the limestone cliff, and then have come back 10, 20, 30 years later. and to see how much that the cliff face has has recessed backwards and they can now get a a recessional rate uh an erosional rate. Um another thing study that was done is

like they they took a one cube of freshly cut limestone and they put it on the roof of the Smithsonian Institution and then began to monitor its erosion over many decades. So now you've got a perfectly cut cube with square corners. Right? Now you come back in 10 years, what are you going to notice? Well, first thing you're going to notice is that the sharp corners are becoming rounded off. Right? That's the first thing that starts going. They become more and more round and you can now

estimate how much material has been removed in that particular environment. So now a in the surf with you've got this say I I remember one study what it was was it was sort of a collapse of rock into the into the ocean and it exposed this freshly cut vertical rock face. So they came in there and they drilled that hole. They put the metal tenon and they started monitoring over literally over decades and was determining okay here comes the rushing

surf pounding against it. How quickly does that limestone erode back? Then another study was All right, I think we're good. I mean, Randall, I I don't think anybody was expecting that level of thoroughess to my answer. I'm a I almost wanted to keep let you keep going because you listed five studies about water damage on limestone. And I'm I'm incredibly impressed. Can I just name one other piece of evidence? Yeah. If you look astronomically, you have the vernal equinox, Leo at the time, the body of

would have been looking directly at I think it would have been around that time. Yeah, because around I think 12,000 BC or000 BC, right? When it was I think it was 10,500 BC specifically when the procession shifted. It's a 26,000 cycle and true north changes because the earth, you know, right orbits on a wobble and Yeah. And so the vernal equinox is now moving out of uh Virgo into Leo. So now you would have had the the Sphinx

and beyond the Sphinx you would have had the profile of the lion. So when I speak to Graham Hancock, he says, you know, I don't think that a lot of this ancient architecture, you know, for example, he says that the the pyramid was not a tomb and that this idea that it just enshrined, you know, this death chamber for the king and the queen and you have the king's shaft and the queen shaft is is he doesn't believe that. He thinks that it's almost this uh portal to another world. And it's it's interesting, right, that the the king's

shaft uh lines up with Osiris, the queen's shaft lines up with Sirius, I believe. And uh and then you have this just overall mapping to Orion's belt at the time. And then you have a lot of other astronomical alignment when it comes to architecture across the ancient world, whether it be, you know, the Aztecs or certain architecture we found in in Cambodia. Um, so what do you think these and they include a lot of the same symbology, uh, geometric patterns and just building techniques, it seems. What

with Bob Greener yesterday and we got into that and I've got notes and I we I've got a recording of it and he's going to give me his slides. He's got a whole theory on it which I could not at this moment recapitulate. But next time we talk I will have digested it. I will have followed up the various leads. I've got a list of papers to read. Um I do think I do think that it had something to do with the uh

generation of some kind of energy. And if I had to pick an energy I would say plasma energy. Why are you and Graham Hancock both so high conviction in the impact hypothesis? This idea that a comet from the Torid meteor stream maybe there was some sort of air burst event and uh it wiped out civilization on earth. There are other theories that the magneettosphere of the earth weakened. There was you know maybe heightened solar activity. There was some sort of you know solar flare or you know maybe a

calamitous volcano. There are various theories. What gives you conviction in the air burst hypothes? [snorts] First of all, the proxy evidence is now You know, it was the idea was proposed. I proposed I have it on record. I gave re five lectures at Warren Wilson College in 1995. I believe it was [clears throat] where I basically talked about the younger dus, the mass extinctions, the rapid climate change. And I say in my mind the most likely trigger has got to be impacts of

something from space. And I proposed a possible multiple impacts over the great ice sheets as being the trigger. Well, then in 2007, Richard Firestone and Allan West and a number of others came out with a paper. George Howard came out with a paper proposing exactly that. Um they didn't propose that it was the torid or connected with the torids. That came a little bit later. I think it was from Bill Napier over in uh the

astrophysical observatory in England who first proposed it could have been the um the uh the torids. But there is a mountain of evidence now in terms of proxies. By proxies we mean um aridium spike, there's a platinum spri uh spike. Uh there have been nano diamonds found. Uh copious nano diamonds, microsphererals that would have taken between 2 and 3,000 degrees centigrade

to to create um magnetic grains. multiple proxies of the that are associated with these high energy hyper velocity impact events. That's what's pretty much convinced me because you now have like eight or 10 independent teams that have documented cosmic signatures at the lower younger dus boundary. Um now I think that there's an abundance

what would an example of a cosmic signature be? Oh, well, a cosmic signature would be um you you you excavate a core ice core from Greenland and then you discover that there is a layer of glacial ice that has a spike of aridium in it hundreds of times greater than the background. Knowing that aridium is deposited on Earth by hypervelocity impacts that would be an example. Another example

would be finding nanodiamond layers. Um the black matte layer, which I've visited about three or four um quaries now where you can see the black matte layer exposed. And in that black matte layer, you've got typically at the bottom of it, you've got abundant nano diamonds. And these nanodiamonds can only form under extreme uh regimes of of pressure and heat. And they're being found all over the world now.

Even in Antarctica. Pretty incredible. Okay. This is going to be a Well, you were you going to say Well, yeah. So, there's there's multiple proxies. The the other thing I would say is that there are studies that show that would suggest that episodes of intense vulcanism can be triggered by hypervelocity impacts that mass extinctions could be triggered by high velocity hypervelocity impacts. that extreme climate changes as like from a

relatively temperate climate into a what's almost referred to as a cosmic winter could also be produced by hypervelocity impacts massive earthquakes. Now, we know that there were and I if we were looking at slides, I could pull up a slide and I could show you here are extreme flood events that occurred during the catastrophic melting of the great glacial ice sheets. And sandwiched in those layers is thick deposits of volcanic ash.

Which shows us that during that process of deglaciation, there were massive volcanic eruptions going off around the world. There's evidence of seismic earthquakes that might have been like 10 on the RTOR scale. As a result of this rapid unloading because of the the rapid melting of the ice sheet, you've now got trillions of tons of weight suddenly removed from the Earth's crust. You have this rebound that causes a redistribution of the the the magma

reservoirs below the crust and that can lead to seismic events, earthquakes and so on. So we have earthquakes associated with deglaciation. We have volcanoes associated with hypervelocity impacts. I think that for the explanation of how do we when you when the planet is in the full depths of a glacial age, you're talking about five or six or seven million cubic miles of the ocean extracted out, deposited on the land

over a period of maybe 10,000 years. And now it builds up. It's a mile and a half thick. Now, imagine if we were suddenly transported back 14,000 years ago. That beach wouldn't be there. It'd be another 40 or 50 miles to the east. And you'd be sitting right there in forests. The same kind of forests that you now find up in Canada. Right there. This there no beach there. You got to go Miami. Miami Beach would look a lot It would look a lot different. Well, that's amazing. And so volcanic

activity, seismic activity, ice core sampling, all of these pieces of artifacts of evidence would not be explained by any of the other things. So, you know, a lot of sun activs too dismissive of impacts, although I think he's hedging a little bit, but um I do believe the sun had a major role and there's What was the sun's role? Well, the sun's role is that we probably had these tremendous solar storms.

Do you know Matt Lacroy by any chance? Yeah, I know Matt. So, I just interviewed him and he said something very crazy that honestly I have trouble believing. He said that in the '9s through the Pioneer mission that NASA did. It was, you know, this first deep space envoy. um they were looking at these sort of uh orbital anomalies of Neptune and Jupiter and they thought that given these orbital anomalies, they detected this the presence of this 10th planet that

was far way far out like beyond the Kyber belt and and and and beyond Pluto. And um I I found that hard to believe, but he was like, "No, they found it." And then the crazier thing is he said they covered up the presence of this tenth planet because this planet was four to five times larger than the Earth. And it to me I mean it just if this stuff ex if this planet exists it would make sense that it would be outside of the gravitational sphere of influence of the sun right if it's that big. and he was saying that the only

thing that made this planet make sense from a gravitational perspective is that we're in a binary star system and there's actually a dead star in our star system that this I know it sounds crazy but it sort of dances around the sun and it creates these cyclical uh coronal mass ejections because when you get that sort of gravitational force you know coming towards the sun that creates this you know CME event the whole thing seemed beyond belief to me, but I wanted to see if I don't have any opinion on that. I

would first thing I'd say is, Matt, I I got to look at your sources. Yeah, it was like, you know, a couple of um, you know, decently wellestablished astronomical publications and then, you know, these Caltech professors who seem like they had credentials, but I don't know. There there there have been wobbles detected in the outer and some of the speculation around those wobbles is some kind of a gravitational perturbation by some hypothetical

larger object that we have not actually discovered um other than indirectly through these grav gravitational perturbations. So that's been around that idea has been around quite a while. I don't know if that's what he's referring to or if he's seen some data that I haven't seen. That my first thing I would say I got to go to the sources when I hear these things. I want to know the sources. Are they are they rigorously and robustly established or is it more speculative? Um and I don't

know I don't have an opinion on that. How do you explain this is a huge nonsequittor but how do you explain the modern kind of alien or UFO phenomena and your sort of ancient civilization framework? Do you think that these are vestigages of a lost uh civilization and maybe remnant survivors of that Well, we've talked about that and I think that that should be one hypothesis that is investigated uh rigorously. Um I mean I I I've immersed myself in mythology for decades

and like today I was giving in the in the um presentation I did at at Apocalypse uh uh Hereticon Hereticon. Thank you. Was that behind the flood myths from all over the world there have been really there have been real floods that were really big really huge could be described as biblical in scale. Okay. So if we take and go, okay, there was this they're universal myths about these gigantic world destroying floods and now

science demonstrates to us that those were real. Then in my mind, oh that's pretty awesome. So we have evidence now that one of the very most potent and universal of all myths the the great flood myths were had their origin in real phenomena. What about some of the others like the stories the if you look at what other stories from around the world are as ubiquitous as the flood stories? Well,

that would be the stories and the beliefs in gods, right? And the gods are usually sky gods. And I think that we could look at in some cases, I think we could be activity in the heavens and anthropomorphi. Anthroor thank you. anthropomorphizing these events in the sky, which could be or the inverse or we're painting the past over with our modern kind of

materialist epistemological brush and maybe like a bull did come down and have sex with a waterfall and create a titan. You know what I mean? Like these weird like myths like maybe they literally saw these things with their eyes and that was just consensus reality at that time. Well, I do think they literally saw like they would explain like, you know, storms and they would call, you know, they explain like waves and it was Jupiter or whatever. We we we rationalize now. Sure. And I do think that they saw things and experienced things. And

particularly like if we go back to, you know, let's say we go back 5,000 to 8,000 years ago when we know that the Torid meteor stream was a whole lot more active than now and that people would have witnessed on a regular basis these phenomena in the sky. I'll mention and you know well about the the the 1908 Tangus event, right? Of course. Okay. So well one of the things that one of the lessons we learned from that is the local people the Tangusi people they

interpreted it as as in the framework of their religious beliefs. So they believed that the event was caused by their god of fire [snorts] agi coming down from heaven to punish them. M so now unless they lose that mythical connection because they'd be all become college educated or something what would happen is that this would be a a story that would be perpetuated you know in a

thousand years 2,000 years from now they would be talking about when the god Agni came to earth and set the earth on fire and you know did all this damage and so forth well I think behind a lot of the things that have come down to us, myths, we could find that same kind of a phenomena going on that you would have um cosmic events that are so overwhelming in their magnitude that it spawns a religious response in people.

Do I think that that's the full explanation for the idea of gods? No, I don't. Yeah. And I think that there that that there might be a confusion between these things because for one thing let's get back to this point that you know from the scientific enlightenment to now is scarcely over 300 400 years right I mean we're in the the space age now we're in the age of computers now we're in the age of of artificial intelligence all

within a few hundred years right so now let's assume assume that we're talking about two 300 years of of scientific development and we're looking at a span of time going back 200,000 years. How how easily could a thousand or a few thousand or five or even 10,000 years of cultural development, scientific development, whatever you want to think of it, how easily could that be lost

for sure in the noise of 200,000 years. Yeah. Nobody explains why like human homo sapiens have been roughly physiologically or biologically the same for the last 200,000 or 300,000 years. the idea that just at the very you know the tail end 3 to 5% of that time we get culture we get technology we get all but we were just completely primitive during the entire you know rest of it I think that actually requires a greater leap in logic than the inverse than say we actually had it and like you have

these kind of Ray Kerszswe style like graphs where it's just like exponential technology or whatever but it's total hubris like that you know we maybe we just don't the the field of archaeology is 200 years old, right? It's like so it's like we we found the ancient cities of, you know, Babylonia and Assyria or whatever in the early 1800s. And it's almost like a a law, a predictable law in archaeology that the deeper we go, the older stuff gets. And so, you know, it's almost like your base guess should be that human civilization is actually much older

than, you know, we would ever expect. So, I I completely um agree with you. The the question I have for you is like you're familiar with Eric Mondanakin, of course, Chariots of the Gods. So, like you read that book, you read Zachariah Sitchin, you know, all this stuff around, you know, aliens coming down and like seeding culture and like it feels like they are um crossing their tees or dotting the eyes when the dot doesn't exist and the, you know, the cross doesn't exist. Like they're they're finishing a sentence that is incomplete. And so, it's always tough. Like I think

the the difference between kind of a hu and like a genius is like this error correction at the you filling in the gaps with like BS, right? Yeah. And and sometimes that happens, but it does feel like there's like a decent amount of evidence for star people or people from some other planet or like an advanced civilization transferring a lot of our modern wisdom and technology. I think and I think that's a hypothesis that definitely should be explored. Mhm. I have suggested that we also consider

the idea that at least one dimension of it or one facet of it and that explains the whole phenomena because there's some wild stuff going on there when you start looking at the uh the record of of sightings and experiences of people who've witnessed uh these kinds of phenomena. But one is that we should consider the fact that you know we ourselves our ancestors if they were technologically advanced enough could have left the planet. And there is some

very interesting stories about again I mean we could pull some of this up but we chose not to do that this time. Some of the stories like for example the the world tree where the great catastrophe comes and human humanity climbs the world tree and like after the floodwaters have receded some of them climb back down to the earth to repopulate the earth but some of the other ones keep climbing into the higher branches that leads to the heavens. I mean that's like a story that's a common

motif that we run into. So, what if there was a literal truth of some kind behind these stories like that? What if they're actually telling us, well, yeah, there were some people who somehow were able to leave the PL because if you knew if if if you knew the scale and extent of the younger dus events and we knew if we knew that something like that was going to happen again, I can guarantee you there would

be a scientific consensus that well, if we want to preserve the species, we want to preserve civilization, we want to, you preserve our knowledge, our science, our industry, our art, all of that. When we don't know how extreme this is going to be, but we can speculate that it could be very extreme. We probably need to come up with some kind of a way of having a um a place of refuge. Where would that be? Well, the most obvious one would be the

Do you think that um ancient religions like the esoteric versions of them actually kind of comport and go together? Like I think of um you know in meaba the Jewish you know coalistic tradition you have like the seven heckal like the you know and then this there's seven arit you know in uh in the Egyptian tradition and then you have the ziggurat and in Sumeriia has se seven steps. Do you think a lot of these ancient traditions actually point towards these sort of celestial ascent practices that

are there's actually somewhat consistent and go move across history? Sure. I mean, there's got to be an explanation for why universally, you know, humans were so interested in the sky, what went on in the sky, created these monuments to the sky. Um I sure I I think that there probably was a reason and and it could be let's say commemorating the knowledge that there was once a science

of celestial travel was still in in existence but the actual knowhow to do it had been lost. Do you know the the Air Force funded the movie Stargate where there's like a portal by the pyramid? even though they funded it. But yeah, I always found that interesting. You'll have to excuse me. I might be reaching the end of my tether. No, no, this is great. I appreciate your time, Randall. And I'm having a good time, but yeah, I'm You got to go create a thunderstorm.

We'll see what happens there. Yes. Yeah. So, well, I hope you come. But we can certainly do this again. And next time if you'd like, we could do give me a little advanced notice and I'll do some preparation. We can we can sit here and we can look at some slides and things and talk about what we're looking at. That sounds good to me. Doesn't that sound fun? Yeah. Thanks, man. Okay. Appreciate you, Jesse. It's always fun.