CIA Contractor: "Obama Received An Alien Prophecy"

And the only person that story can have been told to in that envelope was Barack Oh my god. Very honored to have you. Your name keeps coming up. I think, you know, we are kind of in a lot of the same circles. You're very involved in kind of UFO Twitter, but uh you know, UFO Twitter can be a very murky place.

And uh I think you're uh you have a lot you kind of rise above the rest as far as really impressive credentials and thorough investigation into UFO propulsion and theories about, you know, where they exist, how they exist. And I think you have the background to kind of uh back all of this up. You you really have an amazing history. For a couple of decades, you worked various freewheeler agencies inside the government, and then you started Hot Guy 360, Federated Wireless. And so,

couldn't be more honored to have you, especially amidst this amazing new backdrop. We have a new set for American Alchemy. And our co-host, recurring co-host, Jack, uh who's here, who uh is is also very excited to talk to you. And again, can always speak at higher levels than me when it comes to kind of heterodox physics frameworks. So, honored to have you both. We're glad to have the great science Oh my goodness. So so please tell that to my girlfriend so she'll so he'll think us if I'm not lying to Well, let's let's get this to millions

who has a near perfect photographic who decided not to do physics and I'm ready to turn him over my knee and spank him for not doing physics. Because the guy is the real deal. He commanded the entire field. Talk to you about detail stuff that excited me, excited my imagination and he did it without looking at a

single note for hours. Yeah, it was extremely impressive. It's very impressive. It was one of the few times especially when he was getting into branchial and ruleal space where I felt like I could barely track or barely keep up with what he was saying. hypersurface foliations of branchial space that are compositionally bounded relative to the underlying structure and so they have to do this massive equivalencing and then they perceive they have a linear thread of history. So they believe that they are continuous And I was like trying to you know ask decent questions but it was definitely

tough hearing that for the first time. there's there's an issue. Law everybody understands the issue in physics now is we have quantum field theory which is terrific at doing what it can do. And we have general relativity, which is terrific in what it can do. Every test of general relativity that science has been able to cook up, it continues to perform perfectly. Every test, it passes because one failure and we have to redo the physics.

Quantum field theory is the same. It's oops, we're we're blessed with all sorts of electronics and gadgets and other things in our life now that would not have been possible without the quantum revolution of the 20th century. And the man kind of at the heart of all of it is Albert Einstein. But so, Einstein did a differential equation that equates the material in the universe to how it curves the universe around it. David Hilbert did it a different way. The big

development in the 19th century uh look one one of the big developments was Lagrangian mechanics. So, you take a thing called the action and physics bodies always follow the principle of least action. They take the path of least action to do something. And Hilbert formulated the problem of gravity is a principle of least action and got to the answer by a different path than Einstein.

Do you think that the principles of least action or Fermat's principle where, you know, light seems to, you almost follow an optimal path between two points, that that points to some sort of informa- information theoretic underpinning to physics where the whole thing is sort of optimized in this kind of computational So, I think through we we now understand that all this matter and energy around us is governed by quantum mechanics. And in the the description of it is in

quantum field theory. So, quantum information theory is now kind of all over the place and burgeoning and growing hugely. And eventually, we're going to find what John Archibald Wheeler said to me and many others. You You met him? I'll tell you that story in a minute. I want to hear that. That's amazing. Listen. You won't You're not going to believe how lucky I was. Okay, so he said it from bit. And what he meant was that which constitute the universe all around us are actually

bits of information that is that describes their configuration and the state they're in. So, that's what it from bit meant. Yeah, but I never understand that on a lower level. Like he he'll be like the collapse of the wave function breaks down into like a bunch of yes-no questions and so you get it from bit or What does that exactly mean? Like because I think about, you know, yeah, it does feel like, you know, whatever eigenstate gets chosen is like, you know, an on-off switch or something.

But like how is it a series of yes-no questions that gets the wave function Uh okay, so well, people don't really don't really yet have a really great theory for the wave wave function. There are some There are some guesses. There are some theories that to me have not yet been proven. a theory. Okay, well, that's good uh it's always good to have a theory cuz that that describes a theory should allow you to describe an experiment that will falsify what you've what you're describing. So,

uh the but but some kind of interaction with or observation of a quantum state collapses the wave function. And all that means is you take all this possible states and you collapse all these possible states, which is a huge amount of information, to one. Pick one state out of all the possibilities and doing this observation collapses it to that one state. You can't predict ahead of time what that

state will be. You can predict it probabilistically so far as we know and that's the only way. And the system of Everitt's perspective is there, right? What's that? The Everitt hypothesis for the reduction in the of the wave function. There's some hypotheses. I'm not is that? I'm I'm not convinced effect collapsing the wave function which is is heavily referenced by a lot of these simulation theory universes. So in line with I'm not I'm not convinced that any of

them are exactly right. So Everitt was our Wheeler's student and Everitt did the multiverse and that seems to be growing in popularity which gets rid of the wave collapse problem. Yeah, well in this in Everitt's case he would say wave function collapse never actually occurs and you just get universe branching off. universe is branching off. And so that that's apparently is perfectly good mathematically. To me I don't know how we'll ever test the hypothesis that the universe is a multiverse. But apparently others think

we can and I'm hoping an experiment will be constructed that will say allow us to say the only possible way we could have gotten this experimental result is if there was a another universe that branched off ours and is still impacting it through this some mechanism. It's the mechanism that we will have to find and test. And Sabine Hossenfelder has recently argued that you can't test it but it's an untestable hypothesis and sort of therefore not scientific hypothesis. Sabine is a hypercritical

fantastic scientist who has had to give up on her academic career cuz she's angered too many people which yes I hate cuz I she's very very Extremely capable theoretical physicist, but she doesn't suffer fools gladly. How how'd you meet John Wheeler? Ah, that's interesting. So, I lived in New Jersey for a period of time, worked for an entity that worked for the intelligence community. And my wife was

a nurse at a retire in a retirement And so, she came home one day, she says, "We have a new resident in the retirement community." And she says, "It's the same name on a bunch of your books." And I went, "John Wheeler?" And she She pointed to I said, "John Wheeler?" And she said, "Yes." I said, "Well, take my books out there and see if you can get him to autograph them and ask him if I can come and visit he autographed my books and invited me

to come over. So, I went over and had tea with him. Uh and met his wife and he had a house on the It's a retirement village where you were guaranteed to be there all the way through your final hospitalization. It was that kind of retirement village. And he had a place and I went over and visited him and it became a regular visitor and we No way. What were the What were those interactions like? Did you Oh, they were fantastic. Yeah, look, I would ask questions, he would ask me

questions. We would He would tell He He explained to me the parts of his big thick gravitation book that I couldn't understand even though I had a lot of differential geometry. Yeah. Wow. that was That was interesting, but I occasionally just was his chauffeur. Yeah. I would take him up to the Institute for Advanced Studies, core Princeton University so he could hear a talk and hear those talks and you know, it was just amazing. Can you imagine? That's That's That's incredible. It was just amazing sitting in the back

of the room watching these people kowtow to Wheeler. But but the other thing was where I worked, a member of the advisory board for that place that I worked, Freeman Dyson was on it. So I got to interact with him. And I went to church with him often. say Can you say where you worked? Yeah, it was the Institute for Defense And Freeman Dyson was involved in that. Yeah, he was one of the scientific advisory board members at Can you say what you did? Yeah, I worked on communications problems for the United States

source and that have been classified by the US government? We not Not only do I believe it, I know the mechanism because the Atomic Energy Act has the ability, so long as you brush up next to it at all, of classifying new physics from birth if it's viewed as touching those fields. So one example of that would be and we're going to get into UFOs and how you got into that, but the special definition of nuclear material in the Atomic Energy Read the definition of special nuclear material in the

public Atomic Energy Act of 1954. It basically states any material that releases any kind of atomic energy. That would be retrieved crash material. So it's kind of a sneaky way and No, it is. If you actually read the Atomic Energy Act, if something is not a nuke, but it has radiological energy coming off it, you know, alpha, beta decay, whatever, Same secrecy. Same secrecy. So, it is, in my opinion, given Oppenheimer's status up until he lost his clearance,

it is impossible, given what we know now, that he did not know what was going on because of the makeup of the people dealing with the UFO problem at the at the top national security level, especially after the 1952 flyover of Washington. for Truman lost his lost his launch over it. I mean, he really went nuts. And and it Is that true? Cuz I've heard uh there's a there's an aviation journalist named Curtis Peebles. He said that uh Truman

He I do, too. He's on record with me saying, you know, we were like, if you could meet anybody in history, who would you meet? And he goes probably ask Starbucker, Oppenheimer, and be like, what was your thought process in the '40s and '50s, you know, squirreling this away? I mean, besides overlaying the Manhattan Project Cuz Oppenheimer was the one who created the classification that included the UFO Oh, all those guys. And it was one of the most interesting parts of your interview with him cuz I

totally agree with. And I'm on record on Twitter, Facebook, and other places saying people keep pointing a finger at the CIA and they're not looking at where the secrets have to be kept. I kept pointing the DOE. I kept asking about why people weren't looking at DOE. I kept asking why people weren't looking at the Battelle Institute. And a friend of mine who is a deep researcher in all this, she was also jumping up and down about Battelle. And that's Linda

Thompson, who's who's a premier researcher in the UAP area. Yeah. Well, it was speaking of the DOE, you know, they funded the Human Genome Yes. So, do you think that connects it all? If they If they somehow have a greater ontological truth around, you know, that we're not alone, that aliens I was asked by uh IARPA to take a look at Do you want to just tell the audience what IARPA is? IARPA is the the Intelligence Community Advanced Research Projects Agency. So,

uh it's was formed It was It was put together after DNI came into being to be the equivalent of DARPA for the Intelligence Community. And the current Deputy Director DNI, Stacey Dixon, was the director when I was asked could I take a look at using CRISPR-Cas9 encoding information into DNA. Yeah, so I decided not to put together a proposal. I was too busy with other things and doing some work I can't even

discuss for them. But they asked you about putting Oh, yeah. Well, we had some some people in my in our in my team at at at Hume Center at Virginia Tech did put in a proposal and I think worked on it. What year was this? That would have been 2013 or 14. These kind of novel data storage techniques are all over different media, right? DNA for instance, crystals, stupid things. We were talking about this on the way over here that the notion of encoding DNA with information,

I mean how many layers can you go down into that, you know? Particularly with CRISPR Cas9. There There is tons tons of space, terabytes of data you can put on DNA that we don't know what it's used for. So, it's in the quote, you can use the quote junk DNA to store all kinds of Well, that that it's that's just fascinating. Yeah, you can store semantic information on DNA. It just takes a while to retrieve cuz it needs

to be stored you got to you got to you got to read it all you you'd have to figure out the RNA to read it off. But it's when I was talking to Lou Elizondo, I said, "If you were an alien race and maybe you in the instance of getting wiped out wanted to save some monument or you know, some really important you know, time capsule for a future civilization that might you know, encounter you uh what what would you do?" And I was suggesting all sorts of things. I was like, "Would you put an object in the Lagrangian point that like, you know, is sort of you know, just hovering you know, right next to

the Earth?" You know, there are all sorts of things you could you could come up with. Build a pyramid, whatever. And he said something really interesting. to make something truly enduring, truly enduring, there's really only two ways to do it. You either put something out in deep space where the chances are of it coming into contact with something are minimal or biology, genetics. Because genetics is a fingerprint and that will continue as long as a the survives and finds other places to live, so will that message. And you can put a

lot And the beauty about DNA is that it So, that message, in essence, if you code it right, could be there So, what's as long as the species has survived. And I was that freaked me out. I was like, "Whoa." If if I were a betting man, I would bet that the intelligence community has figured out how to uh use CRISPR-Cas9 to transport intelligence that's been gathered in the

person of a uh intelligence officer already. Whether or not they do it or not, I don't have any idea, but I am convinced that it is Whoa, wait. So, here you're saying the person is a storage mechanism. And can walk right through any security system undetected, is carrying all that information in their person. Do you think it would be local or systemic? Like, could it be a fingernail? Could it be a hair? I don't know. I I am insufficiently familiar with the technology to know how

how much you could localize it, but you can store the information. Tremendous amounts in the DNA of a human. Whoa. This is fascinating. So, it's almost like we're walking hard drives or something. What what would be the practical use of that? Like, do you have any examples? Suppose I wanted to get out all the schematics for and construction documents for every classified projects that's being done by Russia or China. I could encode all of

it probably on one or two humans and walk it out. Whoa. That is true. That's what I think is possible. I don't know that it's being done, but I think it's possible. They can remotely sense that? Like, code it in? No. No. You'd to to other words, it's like the human is a one-time pad. Yeah. Then you have to know the human's carrying it before you even know to read It's like the the moral equivalent of something the moral equivalent of a

one-time pad. How'd you get into UFOs? Okay. So, uh I had some interesting experiences growing up. They're kind of inexplicable. And I woke up one day when I was very young before I went to school, walked into where my mother and her friends were visiting with each other, and uh they were drinking coffee. And I went over to a bookcase, pulled a book out, opened it up, and started reading it to them. And I had never spent a day in

school cuz I was 3 years old. And so, it was just wild. And so, and I didn't really remember it until my mother and her best friend later reminded me of it. I didn't remember it, but my mother because I just knew I always could read. And my mother and her friend told me the story repeatedly. So, it was came kind of apocryphal, if you So, you think maybe it was a it was primordial knowledge or something? I have no idea. I'm not going to guess.

The gods or the aliens or whatever gave me a knowledge. And so, that kind of went on until I was 10 years old. And I was bullied when I was 10 years old. I built a built I built my own telescope from parts. I became an amateur radio operator and built my own equipment. I memorized Gray's Anatomy from cover to cover, knew the functions. So, you were tested by I was tested by a doctor who who didn't believe me. And he quit to came to a Thanksgiving dinner at my parents' home

and told me that it told me to stand on the the hearth of the fireplace and be be grilled by this doctor. And he couldn't stop me. So, he knew I knew Gray's Anatomy. So, I got rid of Gray's Do you have like a perfect eidetic I did. So, it's gotten worse with age. Uh but, it's still good. It's still very, very good. But, it's not perfect. Uh but, so and everyone thought I was going to be a doctor. That was just the going in

assumption. So, went off to college with my girlfriend from high school. We went to the same place. That was how I chose where to go is where she was going. Uh and so, I picked her up first month at the school. I picked her up on a Friday to drive us home for the weekend. And it was 2 and 1/2 hour drive. And about 2 and 1/2 hours into it, suddenly we found ourselves in the middle of nowhere. Didn't know where we were. Didn't know how we got there.

And eventually, looking at our watch, we figured out that somehow we had been asleep for an hour and a half. So, this was a classic example of missing time. I had no idea what to call it. I had no idea what happened. I just knew her mother was going to be upset. So, I quickly got her home and apologized to her mother saying we were talking so much I I took a wrong turn. And but, we're here now and I apologize. Have you gotten a hypnotic regression to

I have, but not the kind you're talking about. I want one. So, what but a month later, I left that college, stopped wanting to be a doctor, I became a mathematician and an engineer, and went to a technical And that changed my whole life, whatever that experience was. It's just I I don't I can't explain it. I don't have a reason for it. I'm just telling you the outcome. Cuz I don't know what actually happened during that

To the extent you can talk about it, what were your what was your government Uh I did work for NSA and the CIA and NRO, etc. for depending on what was needed for for all nearly 30 years. Mainly math and engineering. Math math and engineering and lots of computer science and embedding programming to do things they needed doing. But it was always I had developed something that they needed.

And the need would arise and they would ask me to implement it and put it in the Did you ever run into UFO stuff there? No. And this is I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Later, when I decided to leave there and doing that work every day and become a a member a founding member of the Hume Center for National Security and Technology at Virginia Tech, the rumors get began to run around and I was still well connected all through the

community. And people told me about this UFO stuff being floated around and I saw some of it, pictures. Some that have not come out in the open. And really? Yeah, some that have not been shown and some of them are like wild. Yeah, and I don't want to get anybody in trouble so I just don't tell any details other than they're they're they're the one is a massive triangle above the water. I mean, this thing is huge. And so so Can we get in touch with the person with

the photo and try to I don't know that we can. Do you did you ever interface with the office of scientific intelligence or or the office of global access? A director of the office of global was a member of the advisory board for the Hume Center and later has done consulting with and advises Hawkeye 360, which is a company I founded. Wow, that's amazing. She's she's quite bright. I mean,

Hawkeye, let me just give you give you one example. Hawkeye's has on its advisory board Tish Long, which was the first female head of a fluid through letter agency. She was a director of the NGA. As Hawkeye's big contracts are with NRO and NGA. explain what Hawkeye 360 does? So, uh is a geospatial sensor. What do I mean by that? One of the inputs to geospatial intelligence is

somebody is transmitting a signal on the ground. Where is it? After after you figure out where it is, can you tell us about it? So, Hawkeye developed satellite sensors uh and got them lost first on SpaceX and now on Rocket Labs regularly from And they orbit the Earth and using their the the received signal and motion and time difference of arrival on

multiple sensors does some math uh using highly accurate clocks and the position of the satellites over the Earth and other things to derive the location on the Earth as they pass over. So, the intelligence is, here's a signal, it's located right there, and now we can look at the externals and say we think it's this. And that's handed off to the intelligence community. We don't know why they want it because they give us a tasking and the equipment does

it automatically. multi-sensory analysis. So, multi-sensory analysis of where are things transmitting from on the ground. And that is a very valuable input to only You founded that company. Yes. And my my name are on the patents that make it work. That's incredible. This is a hosted payload on the vehicles that it goes on. It's just software package. No. It's a It's We build the satellites. Oh, well, the whole bus. The whole bus. Satellite and bus and what's in it are things we developed at

HawkEye 360s. Now, the way I did HawkEye 360 is I didn't want to give up my day job and go work at 105 hours a week. So, the deal we worked out with the VCs is we got a small percentage of stock and we helped them develop the ideas and help them get the patents, help them defend the patent process, which we did successfully, help them hire talent that we knew from all of our experience and from our teaching

and other things. So, they got young talent and senior talent, brought it in and they took the company after I ended my year and a half of consulting. So, I became a stockholder after that. I never was involved in the day-to-day operations because I didn't want to be. And have you guys ever detected UFOs? I don't know whether we have or not, but but I As I told you earlier, I went to SCU in 2022 in Huntsville. The SCU

What does SCU stand for? SCU It's the Society for Studying UAP. But I'm a scientifically And Scientific Coalition for the Study of UAP. And it's the the leadership is in Huntsville and other places, but the regular meetings have been the in-person meetings have been held in Huntsville near Marshall Space Flight Center. At at at etc. So, I went there in 2022 and people associated with Space Force

from three-letter agencies came up to me and talked to me about Hawkeye abilities to just looking for UAP signals on the ground. By then, I had given up my security clearance, so I couldn't help them directly. So, I pointed them to the right people inside of Hawkeye 360 that could help them. I don't know what they did because I'm not privy to it. How would you guess you might detect

Okay. So, let's let's let's suppose that the government knows that UAPs are using or emitting a certain transmitted And they get some inkling that the thing is over there somewhere. Hawkeye will figure out by looking for that frequency exactly where they are. Like hypothetically 1.6 GHz? 1.6 GHz at interesting places I am certain has been looked at by Hawkeye

That's fascinating. Very interesting. But I don't know it for a fact cuz I'm not on the inside anymore. Sure. Did you ever interface with any kind of um centers that work on atomic stuff or you know, anything like that? Sandia National Labs for in 1976 into after I got done with my math initial mathematics degree. It was fun. I learned a lot, but it became quickly clear, especially in the

if you wanted respect and to be a leader, you had to have a PhD. So, I left there and went and got my PhD in applied mathematics from Brown What was your PhD thesis? Uh non-linear filtering and how to solve the non-linear filtering problem by using approximations and perturbation theory to get nearby things to linear. So, you can use linear, but then you can perturb it and

get non-linear looks at it. So, it it's it allows you to figure out something about the non-linear behavior. It's the same thing as hidden Markov models. It's the same thing. It's the same thing, except it's dynamical systems where this might be a rocket emitting a signal or UFO emitting a signal and you're trying to track it or you're trying to demodulate a signal. I'll give you an example. This is a great the first application I ever did. A person that was very highly placed at

the Jet Propulsion Laboratories figured out what I had done for my PhD So, he asked permission if I could be allowed to work on the computers that we had at the institute, which were provided to us by the intelligence community, to work on that the signal. And the the sig- the signal was the Russians and the French sent a probe

to Halley's Comet. The probe on its way did a gravitational assist flyby of Venus. While it was near Venus, it dropped two balloon probes into the atmosphere of Now, the Soviets, they did a great job with that, but they made an assumption which turned out to be false. They how fast the temperature in the atmosphere would be conducted inside to

where the thermometer was, because what it does is if it got too hot, it figured it was getting too low, so it increase the helium in the balloon to lift it up. So, the the The did this in the atmosphere until the batteries ran out. But the first entry, it went too deep. And the temperature got really high, and the winds were really rough, and so the signal was distorted by Doppler and other things. But eve- even though

tracking a signal is a non-linear process, people had linear capabilities. My process does non-linear things, so I coded it up on the supercomputer. We demodulated the signal, and they got transmissions back from Venus. Uh uh for for that showed us the data, so we knew we had gotten it right. And the day we we we literally took a piece of paper and wrote down the zeros and ones, called a type type it or

or on piece of paper, flew it out to the Jet Propulsion Laboratories. They took the paper from us, walked it into another room, and gave it to the Soviet and because it was interesting data from Venus. And how do I know it was interesting? Well, a few years later, I was called and told to come down to the chief scientist's office at NSA. And I went down there, and they told me it was about tech transfer. This is during the Clinton era when technology

transfer was was mandated by executive uh if it was no longer critical to the nation's security to keep it secret. So, this technique I'm telling you about was a thing they wanted me to come and talk about. And it I didn't understand why, but I went down. I walked into the room, and I knew why. Because in the room maybe the most famous Venusian planet scientist that ever lived.

And he said that once this story was told, you billions and billions of people would think it was a great thing the NSA had done it. Carl Sagan was sitting in the room. No way. Yeah, Sagan was sitting Wait, this is crazy. Sagan was sitting in the office, the NSA So, what did they figure out? They figured out that the transmissions that they got gave them details on the clouds that were in the atmosphere that they never thought

they were going to get cuz they never intended it to go that deep. But, so this data the data frames coming back were telling them the data collected by the scientific fish on the mass on board and Sagan learned how it happened and how it was done and who did what in that Wow. So, it's clear that Sagan was somehow like super deep. I always thought he was deep on the inside cuz He would also I don't mind telling you he's he's past. I don't mind. He had a contractor green badge with a picture on it. You don't get that if

you're casual. He did not have a casual relationship. he was into He had to have to have that badge. Well, he was He's a consultant. Well, he he had a top secret clearance for sure in the I believed early 70s, late 60s cuz he was or you know it was a little before that, but he was he was working with the Air Force and um it was a project called A119 and they were considering nuking the moon as a show of force against the Soviets and he

was like the main consultant on that. And it was interesting, too. He grew up very interested in UFOs. He would write about it in his diaries. He would debate his mentor, an astronomer. He would constantly say, you know, I think this needs, you know, more credence and people we should we should look into this. And then, boom, he just flips into being this dogmatic anti-UFO person. I believe, without knowing, it's a fact. Here's my belief. He bumped up against the program and was told he needed to change his to He must have because then he he he had a contractor badge for the

National Security Agency. Well, he also goes on to reiterate contact and pale blue dot and if you if you if you watch contact that you know, and you're into UFOs It's very disclo It's disclo It's disclosure through fiction in a way that's palatable for for people. Demon-Haunted World which ironically is sort of I think it's has a blurb by like, you know, Richard Dawkins or something and you know, the demons are supposed to be like, you know, um

fundamentalist or like overly zealous thoughts that humans have, but in fact you just you take The Demon-Haunted World as this sort of like double entendre and maybe that represents Sagan's worldview a lot more and he just believes in the UFO thing. Yeah, I I I don't have direct knowledge, but kind of nothing else makes sense. probably, you know, I was ta- talking with Jack earlier and one of the reasons we were so excited to have you on is that you're probably one of the deepest people when it comes to really trying to

discover kind of ontological truth in the UFO question. And so uh yeah, do you have a working theory as to how these UFOs fly, where they're from, that sort of thing? So so I'm into the physics and I'm pursuing the physics. I did not do physics all my life as my uh avocation. So I am relearning physics, consuming it rapidly, learning from

people who tweak my interest like Eric Weinstein and uh the people at working at Wolfram, etc. And uh Paez and Sarfatti and all these people, but they have one thing in common. Every single one of them is trying to figure out some manipulation the stress energy tensor in Einstein's field equations that when

you fiddle this over here, it goes into the machinery, it goes on this side of the equation, and you get manipulation of gravity out of it. All of them are doing that. That's amazing. All of them. It's all That's what they're doing. question is how do you manipulate that stress energy tensor? That's a good question. Because can I just set it up for the it's prosaically understood even in conventional physics that the stress energy tensor in Einstein's field equations, which govern, you know, general relativity,

Just didn't believe it at all. So, I haven't seen your interview, but I began to believe it when I figured out on my own that all of these people were working on the same stuff. I'm in the private email exchange that Jack Sarfatti conducts while he's doing his work every day, and he keeps insisting that there's a low-power version of manipulating the stress energy tensor that will give you the necessary things on the output of the equation. His His idea is manipulating

constantly creating out of magical magical mathematics and the Heisenberg uncertainty principle virtual particles. So you care about can I take can I take that vacuum with its particles and do anything useful with it? Pais has said I can subject the vacuum to tremendous electromagnetic fields and in so doing take virtual particles, pull them out,

know, but I'm going to guess. They gave him some crash material and he figured out how they write down the equations for it. And it's a strong case because there are three patents that are all really compelling on their own, but they don't work on Until you glue them together. They need each other. They need each other. This this piece This produces the input. This takes the input and does something with it. You need all of that for it to work. The only thing that makes sense to me is the Navy wanted it worked on. They took it

into a lab or Piasecki worked and he figured out how to make it work. And why would the Navy care? I'll tell you why the Navy would care. I'll tell you exactly why. Because the Chinese care and the Navy is the military entity that will take on the Chinese if they started acting ugly over Taiwan etc. They want an advantage over the time the Chinese PLA People's Liberation Army and we know for a fact they are working

on reverse engineering. They have down crap. We know it. Can can what's your smoking gun that the Chinese have a program cuz this is always something that you know, you see here and I've heard it from a lot of very credible people, but I don't hear a lot of first principles like you know, this is where There there is a ton of evidence all over the place that they are inundated by UAPs that's shutting down Air Force and people are putting it up on Telegram. You can see it how and I guarantee you the Chinese are shooting

stuff down. The Chinese famously of course appropriate IP from other developed countries particularly in aerospace and defense. What's your sense of whether they got their first start by siphoning off of our program versus their own crash retrieval. my opinion is that in order to prevent accidental intercontinental ballistic missile exchange, we revealed some things to both the former Soviet Union

and China. And you can see that we did this in the Nixon-Brezhnev Yeah, 1971. It's written the B D the red phone the red phone was invented to stop UFOs from starting thermonuclear war. Yeah, yeah, it's crazy it's wild it's just hidden in plain sight. Literally in the 1971 SALT talks. It's like we want to make sure that the Soviets don't uh mistake these unknowns in their airspace

for acts of American aggression and that's it would be a huge part of détente. And it's literally written in the official to to but we don't have we don't have a treaty with China. But to think we would not want the same protections is foolish. And we know for a fact because of the balloon causing a disruption that we have a red phone to China. Because the Secretary of Defense and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Milley, said that they pick up the phone they call their equivalents in the

People's Liberation Army. And that's what the red phone was for from the beginning to stop mistakes from being Deconfliction line. Deconfliction line. deconfliction lines. We have We've even seen deconfliction lines work in current events. So, the the Russians through their proxies it uh proxy militias attacked a bunch of Americans in Syria. And we called them on the deconfliction line. Of course, they denied that their

existence or having anything to do with them. So, they fired some stuff at our Marines and other people that were with And we called in the armada. And we wasted all of them in hellfire for about 15 minutes until there was nothing left. So, we know the deconfliction is still exist and we've seen America act on things what only after deconfliction is done. I mean, if their people are being attacked and they go through the process of deconfliction

before they will defend their people, you know it has to be it has to exist for protection against inadvertent It's still just this crazy black box as with all Chinese politics as to how much progress they've made, where they're at. You know. Well, the first the first thing you know is the government of the United States who will constantly work to gain access through any means. Human, technical, whatever on what it is the Chinese are

doing. So, well, let's suppose we get an inkling through a leak or far we get a break and we get some kind of intelligence that says they're doing this over here. And so, this can only be this. And as you see and and they they inadvertently display a saucer into our overhead satellite systems. I mean, just people make mistakes. Oh, yeah. The number one source of intelligence is human fallibility. Holy, these are number one source. 99%

faster than light, you know, EM drive there'll be a ton of work done, but I think the way I think the government wants to protect both the people, their reputations, and the institutions that have done things and that that they don't want known, and would harm the institutions and the people if it were to become known. So, the thing I would expect the government to do is as cold disclosure gets going,

and we learn that anti-gravity and propulsion propulsion are being worked on, that suddenly some people will be allowed to do it without being stomped on in in corporate corporate startup or has to be the case cuz assuming that Russia and China have this if the average talented STEM student in America isn't aware of any of these frameworks, then we're at a massive Yeah, so let's close off what we were starting before. I want to finish the The Navy would have PAIs do it if they

wanted uh exotic propulsion, so they'd have a massive advantage over the Chinese because they're going to be fighting in the Chinese pond with their navy, and they the Chinese are going to throw everything they can at the navy. Yeah, or or the PAIs do And they wanted it known. Or it's like a a limited hang out, or it's like we're going to give you, you know, it's like the cicada thing, or it's like we're going to give you a little bit of info, if you're smart enough, you can figure out the info, and then you get initiated into the the program. Yeah. And I think that's probably what's going on here because,

about this stuff. I think they're very on on top of it. So, it's like how would let the cat out of the bag without you know, tipping your hat off to your adversary, but how would you let certain STEM students who are qualified in America know? And you might come out with these three disparate patents that you can piece together if you're qualified enough. I think that the changing milieu for educational institutions and what people choose to go into has been changed dramatically by

modern society. People don't go into those fields in sufficient numbers for us to get the talent we need to do this in a major way given that it costs so much to go to the university that people want to have a high-income job when they get out so they can pay back their loans quickly. It's just the the system is biasing people away from doing what's necessary to make a big sh

We we built the modern world because our university system was the best there is and we've hobbled it by making people go on debt. Yeah, it's horrible. It's horrible. It feels like we're living in late-stage decadent capitalism or something where the smartest people are working on the dumbest things. Very best mathematicians are working in Serving quants. And I know all these young people out here who are they're awesome. They're really smart and they're irrationally playing casino games with crypto. They're like on Solana investing

in meme coins and I I don't blame them because that's the way you kind of, you know, leapfrog everybody else. Yeah. That's why you get the huge pump. And meanwhile, like you know, our the world of atoms and engineering has completely stagnated over the last 50 years and that's as far as, you know, our national competitiveness, that's way more important vector. If so so let's suppose I wanted to cover up gravity. So I would have see all this unbelievable stuff that Wheeler got started down in the down in North

Carolina with two industrialists supporting him and all of these people came to Wheeler re-Regenny gravitational research. And his first was Richard Feynman doing an approximate quantization for with of gravitational for as his talk. He's the and it's a great model so long as it's not super high energy physics or super gravitational physics. It works. It simply works in the regime in which

the approximation works. Feynman did that for Wheeler. And why would Feynman do it for Wheeler? Wheeler was Feynman's graduate advisor. He wrote his PhD thesis for Wheeler. Do you think both were associated with For yes. Okay, so anyway, but all these aerospace people or people who for working on gravitation etc. would go to these conferences and interact including Towns and Brown and a Lou Whitby and

Witten and those others and they got some place it looks like. didn't just they went they went dark. Louis Whitby didn't do anything else in gravitation and T Towns and Brown went to work for the military industrial complex and never published another thing about his work. And somebody started grooming up string theory and the government threw money at it. So, money is what causes research to happen.

Why? Because it's publisher perish and you got to have money to do the throw money at string National Science Foundation funding, Department of Defense direct funding, DARPA funding, etc. is sort of a limited hangout for more real physics than No, I think string theory is they know it's wrong and it's aiming them away by quote bribing all the people into doing what they have to do anyway, which is do interesting work to get keep their to

forget promotions But why have a lab? If you want a vital core national security, you know, program, like what, you know, why wouldn't you why would you deflect? Why would you why would you get all Why would you get all these secret apologists in a room with a blackboard in the basement of Lockheed somewhere or they know it? Yeah, right. we had we had enough stuff we've gotten from other things that we used it to recreate what could be done and we didn't care about the all these stories about people working on anti-gravity stuff and getting stomped on and or

their life ended. I I just think there are too many of these things telling us they don't want people to go down the route they were going in the 1950s. Well, it's really fascinating history because the establishment of quantum gravity which led to string theory was in 1957 at the UNC North Carolina Chapel Hill conference headed up by Agnew Bahnsen who had uh Louis Witten there from uh Martin Corporation pre-Lockheed merger. Yeah, from their anti-gravity division RIAS.

The whole thing is sponsored by Wright Air Field. And then Agnew Bahnsen simultaneous to doing this kind of top theoretical physics conference is uh funding Towns and Brown. And so there's this question of like is Towns and Brown doing the vital stuff kind of in the back room where they're doing the the more kind of theoretical work and maybe you know getting some things wrong or groping in the dark. And the one thing that Eric Weinstein has pointed out about this conference, which I find fascinating, is there's an Austrian mathematician named Hermann Bondi. Yes, Bondi. Yes. Bondi asks this really interesting question about he goes, but what about

what if you remove the positivity conditions in Einstein's field equations? And don't you get all sorts of weird anomalous effects in physics that involve negative mass or negative Which is all you need to manipulate the stress energy tensor so you can warp There you go. He kind of gets like laughed out of the room or marginalized or maybe he asked the wrong question that was a little too provocative for some of the, you know, sponsors of the conference. And then you end up with, you know, Alcubierre, this, you know, Mexican physicist, you know, University

of Mexico PhD, um who solves Einstein's equations for faster-than-light travel. And then you get Sonny White who is a, you know, propulsion engineer at NASA, who is working with negative energy, negative mass when it comes to faster-than-light travel. And so you really have to ask the question did it all start with this these positivity conditions, this sort of governor that was placed on Einstein where if you take the governor off, you get all sorts of really anomalous interesting effects. And maybe Towns and

Brown was doing this in the back room. Here's Here's what I Lots and lots of things in science are discovered serendipitously. And I think Towns and Brown and others uh excited the vacuum field and got weird stuff out of it and saw gravitational anomalies. Mhm. Mhm. And once Once Once you see that, you can't go back. Once I saw a UFO, I couldn't go back.

Okay, so it's just I I believe these people saw it and they were determined to spend their lives figuring it out. Well, we talked about multiple tech trees in the physical phenomena, the non-physical phenomenon. What for you is like the most convincing evidence that there are multiple ways of doing this? Uh in the Okay, so Alcubierre is one way, but that's not the only way. The other way is uh it could because he the because of the amount of negative

energy required. I believe that Sarfatti is saying, "No, no, no, no. You You can You can do faster than light travel with a battery." And his is work is totally different. It's low energy. Uh go has a has another uh scalar field involved in his equations as his modification to Einstein's field equations. I don't yet know of an experiment that says Sarfatti is correct, except he's been on this problem for 50 years. Uh when he first

claimed he had a UFO or alien ET non-human intelligence experience, he's been on it forever. And he was one of the group the great young physicists out out in California uh that wound up being amongst the hippies that saved physics. He think Uh he is one of those guys. And uh his career has been very non-traditional, but he was a student up at Cornell with some of the best. He had a terrific

education and he is capable and he he's he's irascible and hard to get him to explain stuff for normal human beings to understand. I posted an 8-hour interview with him and it was not enough time to get to the heart of the issue. But he like He doesn't like me very much. I don't I don't know why, but You're not a You're not a PhD scientist. That's what he say said. You're not a I'm not I'm not saying I'm a physicist. He's a snob.

I'm not trying to be He's a hard-nosed scientific snob. But he he also feels he's been uh treated badly by those who are in the mainstream of physics. He has some uniquely incisive ideas. It's kind of He's over here on the the very low energy Planck side of things with with Pice over here on the very high energy Schwinger side of of things. Yes. Yeah. Schwinger's A lot of people don't realize that everybody knows that Feynman was involved in quantum electrodynamics, but

Schwinger also won the Nobel Prize at the same time as Feynman and Tomonaga. And Schwinger's version of quantum is being used by Pice in the implementation of his stress energy tensor manipulation to get the stuff we need to do engineer through the next step, next patent into warping of space-time. Schwinger's brilliant. He was hard. He was as hard to understand

as Sarfatti is. He's very hard to understand. And the thing that changed for Tomonaga, Feynman, and Schwinger, and all the rest of physics is Freeman Dyson existed. He got in a car with Feynman, and they drove across the And so Feynman happened to be driving from Cleveland to Albuquerque, and he offered to take me for a ride just to see the country. And he talked

about physics, of course, a great deal. And and and there I I argued with him a lot because I still had strong resistance to his way of doing And Feynman had an inspiration and wrote down on two pages showing the equivalence of all three of their models. And so quantum electrodynamics was born because Feynman will wrote across the country with uh uh Freeman Dyson in his car. How do you think when you look at quantum electrodynamics,

you know, you have energy in the quantum vacuum, which is this fascinating concept, you have uh you know, anti you know, particles and and it's it's just such like very kind of trippy kind of ontologically like you know, when you when you learn a little bit more about it? Do you think it comports at all with the UFO phenomena, quantum electrodynamics? Yeah yes, because it this it's the of quantum electrodynamics to the vacuum that is produced and what's needed to make warp drive work.

One of many different paths, but it's it's it's got to be something like that. it's magic that we don't even have the language to describe. Do you think Einstein-Cartan is relevant in this big picture? Yes, because I think Wait, real quick, what is Einstein-Cartan? Yeah, so about 15 years after general relativity, French mathematician Elie Cartan comes around and Einstein had had equated the the torsion tensor, he said it's symmetric in free space or anything, zeroed out.

And Cartan was like, wait a second, it's not it's not zero in matter. You could have spin density fields that are substantial enough to add meaningful contributions. And so this was pursued by a number of different uh there's if it was like the Duffin-Kemmer Lee's associates, Dr. Vargas, Dr. Torr were into this, and it allows you to get electromagnetic contributions to the spin density tensor, which then builds essentially like, you know, curvature-based gravitation, warped But here's what here's what here's what here's the bottom line.

What this does Cartan's modifications is given given fertilizer to the following field. I could put interesting materials in and around quantum electrodynamics things going on and I get gravitational effects out through this torsional tensor which inside those materials does not zero out the way Einstein assumed because he was thinking of the vacuum. So topological insulators which you're very deep on these are these materials.

Totally totally. These materials It's there's a meta material involved. Topological insulators is the kind of thing where you've got to do some weird uh constitution of it so you get you get uh weird squeezings so you trap the right vacuum particles at the right frequencies and then you manipulate them out but the the material is what's doing the squeezing that allows the quantum vacuum to give you something you can

use. So you got to have the material otherwise you don't have the torsion tensor being non-zero. So what what's an example of a topological insulator then? One of these materials that seems to you know when you do weird quantum electrodynamics high energy physics around them they seem to exhibit anomalous effects. tell you how you know a true scientist. They say I don't know cuz I'm not a material scientist but I'm going to ask this guy over here because he is. Bismuth antimonide telluride. So this is what's so crazy is when you

say bismuth I think of the magnesium bismuth parts that uh Gary Nolan has in his lab and I think of the magnesium bismuth that um Lewis Witten in front of a class Lewis Witten is working at Martin Corporation's anti-gravity division. He says that he was contracted by Wright Air Field to work on gravity and he said that there was a guy named Townsend who had a weird isotope of bismuth that exhibited anti-gravity properties. And bismuth shows up in Townsend-Brown's papers as didn't use the word topological

insulator, but as a high-k dielectric in his capacitor experiments. And so he's using high energy and applying it to this insulator, and so that's Bismuth is an inherently topological dopant to different semiconductor materials, so when you have a lattice, which can be a a metallic conductor or an insulator or a semiconductor, has this band gap between the valence electrons and the conduction electrons. In a conductor, they overlap. There's no gap. In an insulator, they're quite far apart. They don't jump on their own with

thermal energy. In a semiconductor, they're very close. Topological insulator is kind of a warping of the semiconductor definition in that that band gap can move and change if you apply a B field, if you warm it up, if you do different cool it down, if you do different things to it, you can it could be individual quantum states the the band gap. issue is you can apply an external field and it stops being an insulator and turns into something special. And what's Unobtainium. It turns into unobtainium by any other means. And what is that something special involved as far as its properties? What

can that something special do? the right meta material with an external magnetic field on it might emit positive and negative matter that you can drive the warp field with. Wow. And so with negative mass, you could theoretically affect kind of the the the quantum vacuum and you could create a gradient that you could sort of surf. You could surf space-time itself. Is that Yes. That's right. That's one of That's one of the most That's the Alcubierre notion. You can have a gradient that you can

Well, except for Donald Hoffman and I think a lineage of what's called parapsychology at elite universities mid-century where they're studying basically random or conventionally thought of as random quantum mechanical effects like radioactive isotope decay and seeing that there is an ability for the mind to affect in a statistically significant way, you know, the output of ones or zeros on kind of a graphical people that that knee-jerk reaction that that can't happen need to go read the

hundred or so papers written by Dean Raiden and demonstrating conclusively these effects are real. I I couldn't agree more. One of my close mentors who couldn't be more credible as far as like what he does in the in the real world and I think we're going to come out with an interview saying uh was very involved in the Princeton parapsychology lab and and the random event generator experiments. And I've hit him with every single skeptical, you know, file drawer issue,

survivorship bias, P-hacking, you know, whatever. And like he has great answers for all of it. And at a certain point you have to be like, well, that can't exist cuz I don't want it to exist and actually maybe there maybe there's something there. Yeah. Yeah, that would be me. I had to be converted to be convinced that there's something here. But there's definitely something there. And I think the thing that is there, the physical possible model of consciousness would be if the Penrose thing is right. So if if there's something in the brain that can maintain quantum coherence and then it kind of, you know, uh decoheres and then

you see reality in this kind of macroscopic relativistic way, then you're sort of rendering reality in real time. as you as you live it, you render it. Exactly. You're it's and it's comports fully with the Wheeler observer theory of the universe model. So, if you are responsible for the the rendering and it's but that decoherence is going on in your mind, then your ability to affect matter isn't like you're like shooting particles out at

the material world. It's you're affecting the rendering of the material world, if that makes sense. Like you are the interface. It's going on inside the mind. So, distance is not a factor. So, distance is not a factor, which is all the quantum stuff. If distance is not a distance and time are not a factor. You have temporal and spatial You almost kind of need something like to get from to get from here. You need an effect that appears to take place in a realm where where distance is not a limiting factor.

Exactly, which and all the random event generator experiments, time and distance don't matter. And it's so it's it's really So, how do you guys think if you have on the one side you have kind of consciousness stuff and then on the other side you have, you know, exotic propulsion, high energy physics, do you guys think they converge You know, so I've been into the work of Hoffman now for 3 years. And he's come up with this model of

consciousness in uh challenged from um uh the famous physicist at Princeton uh who told him, "I need you to show me that your model of consciousness might be able to uh be based upon or utilize what's called decorated permutations because they are involved in physical object called amputee hydrants which are relevant to modern current

ongoing quantum physics. Okay. this is a really interesting model and Tofon does brilliant at describing how you get from this gigantic collection of conscious agents that are implemented in these permutations that are decorated with other information project down to each of us individually to to to give us our space time

rendering that's our desktop that we view the universe through. But we all are derived from this up here. So his from the outset requires a universal consciousness pool. All right, so that's interesting. So then over here, you've got Wolfram and his team with a brilliant physicist writing papers in it who have taken hypergraphs which are basically structures for programs and so forth computational

structures and they have now worked out in peer reviewed papers how you can take one of these hypergraphs and keep twiddling it and working on until you get down to cool. What I've got here is I've built from code the general theory of relativity. And you do it over here slightly differently and you get down to I've run this code and done all this work and what came out of it is quantum field

So, I asked the following question. Is it ever going to be possible to connect the information field that's being manipulated by consciousness to all the stuff over here. So, I asked the following technical question. Is very technical Is there a mathematical connection between decorated permutations and And I found a mapping through certain

permutations that directly map from the decorated permutations onto the components in the hypergraph. And that's my only result so far, but it's the beginning of how you marry consciousness, if he has the right to physics, if they have the right model. So, for me, it might be it might be string theory. It might be something a goofy crazy mathematician would do, but it's really enticing. And I have this mechanism written down, and I'm

writing it up. Cuz I just week. That's incredible. He He described it to me on the train over, and I was kind of mind-blown at If we got to get you and him and Pines in the same room to go over the hypergraph connection, because Yeah, I'll just I'll let you guys go to It was soup to me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, Pines Pines Pines, if you're seeing me, you're amazing. Let's talk. Oh, let's do it. Let's do it. We'll do We'll do a part three with all of us.

Yes. That sounds like a blast. Yeah. It'll be This is what what people are seeing. Is this kind of conversation and that kind of interaction? Is how scientists work together. They have ideas, they bounce them off each other, they write them down, they make mistakes, they correct each other, they're hard on each other, they're supportive of each other, and in the end, we get somewhere. I don't know that this is going to go anywhere, but I'm You You as when you're a scientist

in my case a mathematician and you're working on something and you have this and you sit down and all of a sudden chill washes over you. You feel the surge of adrenaline and you see your way through and you write it down and you go, "I have figured out the connection between this and this and here's how we do it." It's just this most unreal thing that happens to people in the moment of

That's amazing. So so what do you think is happening overall? Cuz it feels like we were talking earlier when I first saw you were like, "Things are happening." I was like, "I know, things feel like they're speeding up." They really do. We just had hearings on the hill both in the Congress and then this week in the you know, this revelation of this program called Immaculate Conception. We have a new director of the All Domain Anomalous Resolution Office. But even more broadly it just feels like in the zeitgeist aliens that's for me that's to me the important

the zeitgeist the zeitgeist has changed sufficiently that it's okay to discuss this and bandy about ideas about it without being afraid you're going to be called a or crazy. Well the the felt sense of it is like this is and I feel it with the show it's too where I'm like I'm going hard like traveling everywhere and like like it feels like things are about to blow up in this area. Like the next year is going to be extremely And that's really like based on instinct. Like you know, maybe I know it

more than the average person as far as possible things coming down the pipe but it's really like this kind of intimation that uh big things are happening and and real revelations are going to happen, you know, when it comes to ontological truth. Maybe again that's supported somewhat by the new administration. Say what you will about it, but it feels like there's some they if if if the new administration will come in and release research funds to support the university faculty and

the students, we will build a cadre of people that can move us down this line faster. The the the How can they not? It's like how if if if you're aware of the the reality of this stuff and you're aware of the reality of science that's been totally suppressed that is important for the US to maintain its, you know, national you know, international primacy. How could you in your right mind not, you know, just keep going with this kind of cold war secrecy where like nothing

gets revealed? I I the the most damaging thing to technological and intellectual progress inside the United States nearly hampered it into non-existence is while we were doing all this wild development of quantum mechanics and general relativity, nuclear energy and so forth and so on, we were wide open. We interacted with people all over the world. Scientists got on boats and traveled to Europe. People came from Asia. Okay, to interact

at conferences and they shared stuff. We've stopped doing allowing that. And people are trapped with the inability to travel or interact cuz they don't have the funds to do that operation. So support for this is the only way we will make major breakthroughs because we don't know who like peo- people are going to look at this and they go who is this guy with a purple shirt on for the southern accent? Why does he know this? Because I was allowed to take time to

think about it and listen to others who talked about it. And so I had an idea. It may be useless, but I not I feel it's not. But if that's happening across all sorts of places, who knows who will walk into the room as a young person about to learn something and make a major contribution to this and just change our entire universe. Well, it's a beautiful thing, too, cuz I think the elite citadel of, you know, physicists or, you know, even philosophers, like academia itself

is going to be, you know, proven to be kind of stale in this new model where like this stuff exists and so you're going to get these kind of amateur experimentalists, people who just listen a choice. earnestly and we have to let them in and we have to allow them to contribute because it's this is it's a really interesting field where if you're just early on it have good instincts and earnestly, you know, work at it. much admire Eric Weinstein's public stance on the disastrous things we have done to intellectual development,

education, et cetera in the current environment. I hope people listen to I hope people listen to him, too, and I hope we can maybe we can create some sort of institute outside of academia that allows for safe exfiltration of science that has been suppressed historically and stuck and lodged in these compartments in government and And I think it's really important. If there's a way to do that, you don't want to tip your hat to the adversary. You

know, you don't want to allow infinitely destructive tech out, but the idea that science itself should be sta- you know, snapshot whatever we had in 1957 is is the end of history when it comes to science, that's crazy. And it's and it's not even good from a national security standpoint. good from basically any any standpoint. new physics, new math, new biology, new chemistry, From that, we're going to get new materials, new medicines, new ideas, new ways of doing things, and renew

ourselves. What we need, major ideas to figure out how to undo the damage we're doing to our environment. Overuse, the the the the recovery of materials in an in an energy-efficient manner. But we you need serious research. You need it to be sexy to get into the technical fields again. He And but I I got to tell you, the Hume Center

was funded by science and technology guy from CIA named Ted Hou and his wife. Ted was left CIA, started a company, did well, sold it to Kinetic, and plowed some of the money back into the center. And the goal for the center was talk young people into doing technical science and engineering, etc., and be willing to think about doing it for the

government in the intelligence community, Department of Defense, etc. And he put his money where his mouth was. And so what we did was we got kids to work on problems of the the government wanted by carving off pieces that would be attractive to them, that were totally unclassified, could be used for PhD thesis, master thesis, senior projects, etc. While at the same time

introducing them to the other side of the equation. And some of them would go all the way, and they would get a security clearance, they would get a summer job, and they wound up leaving school not with full 20 years of debt, but with money in their pocket. And they went in and to to a large extent stayed in cuz they did not need to worry about where the next bill was going to get paid from. And so it's a it's a concept which can

root of the word school is the Greek schole which actually double it's a double meaning it means leisure and it's actually come to be associated with the the Latin scala which means ladder. And so actually like academia should be this leisurely contemplation of the world where you shouldn't be worried about where your next paycheck is coming from. And it's just turned into this kind of you know hyper rat race where we're we're scurrying over one another it publisher perish, you know, And so yeah, something like this or a Bell Labs which is you know hybrid you

know private but also public funding where you're putting tons of money into new science and innovation seems like it would be necessary. And the return on investment, how can it not be good? Because when we've the human intellectual capacity to operate freely, we have never lost. Well, out of Bell Labs you got the semiconductor and that is responsible for like a third of our modern economy and you could say oh that could have been happened in a private venture capital context like no it couldn't. Like it you needed way too much money to

make that thing work. And so, the government funding thing is incredibly important and that I hope that does get Dude, Elon Musk is completely and destroying the old way of going to space and giving us a new way of going to space. And he did it because he first bootstrapped his way to money, then he turned his ideas and put his entire fortune at risk bringing us SpaceX. But, so that isn't the only model that'll work. But, the gist of it, freeing

people to do what they can do, so that their minds are engaged and they're not worried all the time, and we will see magic happen come out of it. I agree. And I think hopefully, you know, Elon, I think he's been walking back his dogmatism around, you know, uh basically, like chemical combustion being the only way when it comes to space travel. And so, I hope he becomes open to this because he's obviously, you know, America's chief industrialist. He's incredibly important for anything we do on the science and

tech front. When he focuses on a thing, it seems to just happen. And so, I I hope he he uh shifts his focus towards, you know, more exotic science like this because it would seem to be, you know, right up his alley given, you know, his modus operandi in life. Holding the old and agile structures are not working for this problem set. So, he is pretty much the perfect example of wiping away the old structures with new agile structures. Couldn't agree more. All because he got angry when the

Russians wouldn't sell him a rocket. He wanted to put a garden on Mars. And then and then it's interesting, he and Mike Griffin, cuz they were the they had really made more progress in liquid fuel rocket engines. And so, he and Mike Griffin will go to Russia and they find the the the rocket engines. Mike Griffin goes, forms, you know, later he forms Space Force, but he became the NASA admin. And um then he forms SpaceX, Elon Musk. And so it's this interesting sort of tech transfer or something that

happened through that. Yeah, they they had they owned the engines for decades with the RD-180 and those things. They're fantastic engines. Musk has left them in the dust. Why do you think it? Elon Musk, uh you know, it's been revealed that he's met with Putin a bunch of times. I found that very interesting cuz I think, you know, it's like he's providing Starlink terminals to Ukraine and he's sort of like, you know, openly helping Ukraine right when the war starts and then he meets with Putin. That is this

interesting thing where maybe the actions don't reflect, you know, what So Elon Elon is beyond important to the national security state and its needs for uh stuff by transporting their stuff to space. He's very important. For his a bunch of national security contracts. So what this means is that he can be above the law. So the following is a fact. If he's interacting with the head of state of an adversary, he is required to do

reporting to his security officer. If he has not done security reporting of all of this to his security officer, he is in violation of the terms of his security clearance. I'm not saying any of this is true. I'm saying if it is true, it's a real problem. Well, I bet I'm sure he was communicative with his security officer and then that begs the question, you know, maybe politics isn't what it seems or something, you know, it's like it's just an interesting kind of

question, but okay, so we've gone into, you know, But I but I don't know what I don't know what impact and haven't told by any what impact Musk having the with Putin has had on I don't either. We got into some of the physics around UFOs and aliens. Why do you think they're here and what do you think they're they're dealing? Hm. So, I know a lot of experiencers and I've talked to a lot of experiencers and for whatever reason, even though I have

an intelligence community background and I'm this, you know, egghead scientist, they still seem to talk to me. And they have for a while. So, the following seems to be their story, not my story, but their story. They're doing breeding experiments for reasons we don't know. Maybe the government in secrecy knows, but the people who are being used for these experiments and don't know why it's being done. Uh, but it's interesting. The

Some are coming because they're constantly telling the innocent and the young and the to go out and tell everybody we're not treating our planet well. So, some are coming because this place is magical. The ecology and the totally perfect conditions for life, they can't be like this everywhere. I believe life is on a lot of places. I

don't all believe there are many places that are so suited to life as this is. This planet is. And we need to take care of it and I think a bunch of them that care about all of this are here sampling our life forms, interacting, trying to figure out how it all worked, how it was all put together and they have the time and capacity and resources to study the problem for a long time because I think they've been here for a long time. met an experiencer that has gotten an

Oh lord, yes. And have you seen the implant? My girlfriend has two implants. One of them is in her leg right next to her femur, and one of them is in her forehead. So, she gets occasionally gets these headaches. She said, I think this thing is going off. And it's inside her forehead? So, I take So, I guessed. I made a guess. I said, "All right, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to get a electromagnetic field sensor, and I'm going to put it next to

her head and see what happens." And I have a video online of me moving this field meter across her head and watching that and the implant RF transmissions. Human bodies don't pulse RF transmissions. That's terrifying. That's And it was coming right out of her forehead. Oh my god. which I will show you and share with

Oh, oh. Right there. Right there. Right there. We found it. That is crazy. Wow. And And so, what does she think the implant might be being used for? I think it's a geolocation and other information transfer mechanism. Why else would they do a digital burst coming out of her forehead? So, they're saying So, look, I didn't believe these Can I Can I tell you straight up? I didn't believe these stories at all about these implants and then they went in the years tracking

until I wrote the patent and formed the company that tells you how they do it. What do you mean? HawkEye 360 is how the aliens would find these beacons all over the planet. Wait, what? The technology behind HawkEye 360 is how the aliens could track us across the Wait, wait, wait, explain. So, you're saying the tech the sensor tech. So, you have a company HawkEye 360 that does the master it does sensory analysis satellites in space.

Yes, but it finds RF emitters on the ground. So if they have a 1.6 gigahertz emitter in your skull. The satellites flying over your head can locate that thing to a square meter. Unbelievable. So with Hawkeye 360 you could geo locate your girlfriend And so you're saying that presumably aliens have this tech. Well, they're a thousand years or more ahead of us so they have the tech.

Were you able to glean much from what the meter was saying about the a pulse. Yeah, it was strobe. So it was pulsing. So to me as a communications that's what I did for Federated Wireless is is it's a digital communication system. I have not taken the time I'm what I already say people going to go why haven't you cuz I've been busy. We're taking the time to figure out what the transmission is, how it's digitally modulated, what is the encoding of the data so I can try to figure out what it

is they're transmitting. But if they're if they've done it right they've got it encrypted and I'll never break the What's what's this that's the crazy. What do you what's the most insane mind-blowing autologically shocking thing you've experienced in all of your inquiries into UFOs and aliens? So okay, so I've put up a bunch of sensors around my house especially after I visited Okay, the most autologically upsetting transformative event in my

controller. It seems like there's a way in which the information that Chris Bledsoe is getting is comporting with sensitive information that the government actually has. And so that's why people are so interested in what he's sort of saying. So yeah, what Okay, so fantasy all sorts of stuff that I told you about earlier, photos and other things that said UAP are here. So I grew curious. And this is these are photos that you saw just through friends in the kind of classified world.

"Have you seen this, Bob?" I went, "No, I haven't seen it. Wow. Well, I don't know about this. So but thank you for showing it to me." But anyway, so cuz I don't have that they did not have the right to transfer it to me. But I just called happened to see it as I was passing by and they might have said, "Look." Anyway, so so I became curious because it heated up. Something was obviously happening inside the government and I because there were I knew there were meetings going on, but I was not privy to them. But I saw some

So I became curious. So the person that I decided could teach me about all these UFO nuts was Richard Dolan who wrote two volumes on UFOs and the national security state. I am a citizen of the national security state. So, I figure, "Okay, I'll go to this guy. I'm going to figure our stuff out." So, I built a working relationship with Richard. Read his books, and then he interviewed Chris Bledsoe in four 1-hour segments. And by the end of it, I

done. I had to go visit. I'm in Blacksburg, Virginia. Chris is over in North Carolina. He's 2 hours from me. So, I wrote him and said, "Chris, I'm a I'm also work for the government doing work and so forth, and I'm very interested in the things that are happening to you. I might even be able to help you with some sensors that help you provide more evidence that's actually occurring." So, he was silent for 3 weeks. And then he said, "Hey Bob, thank you

for your offer. I've decided you can come over." So, I went over, and I stayed 4 days. 3 days it rained. The fourth day we had a clear night. So, for 3 days, he told me every secret thing that's happened to him. It says unreal. All that stuff in the book and more. He told me while I was in his home visiting with his family. And so, on the last night, it

was clear, he says, "Oh, it's going to be clear tonight. We can do sky observing." And I saw this look come over his face. It was like he was entranced and communicating with whatever this this entranced state was. And he says, "Okay, we should go outside." So, we went outside. We stood for a minute, and there were these little things that were going off like flash balls in the skies and in the trees. And I says, "What in the heck is

that?" Well, my brain was going, "That's an electromagnetic pulse. I bet I could detect that." My mind was going. But he was I was totally engaged and focused. And then all of a sudden right above the trees about 3 or 400 m away this thing flashed into existence. It was a massive orb. Very bright. And it waxed and waned in brightness,

colors and royal, floated across the sky, was not moving linearly. It was doing curved and zig zig zags and went over the sky and it slowly faded out as it went over. I went, "Whoa." he said to called and he told his son, Ryan, to come out, Ryan Bledsoe. So, Ryan came out and as soon as Ryan got out there, and boom, another one flew right over our heads, 40 ft in diameter,

very bright, floated across the sky, and all of us enjoyed it until it was gone. So, Ryan was so excited, he got video of this thing flying over our head and ran in to show it to the the the people with me and with the Bledsoe family that he had seen one of these things with me and it was clearly good that I saw it cuz I was a scientist and I could say it was real. That's really why they wanted me there is I could say as a scientist, I saw this and it's real. So, I'm here to tell

you I saw it and it was real. So, we sat there and I began to notice this purple aura that looked like purple glowy smoke right above the treetops. And it just slowly but surely brightened. And it finally got to this place where it was visible and I said, "You know, Chris, I'm seeing something." He says, "Yeah, I can kind of feel it." And all of a sudden, it disappeared. Just all of a sudden, like somebody turned the light switch off.

And without missing a beat, Chris said, "Okay, they're gone now and we can go I went, "Whoa, that's telepathy or something." He says, "That's just wild." So, we went inside. We finished our visit, pleasantries, hugs, all of those stuff, and I went home. And they followed me home. Like almost everyone who has a serious

experience with him, they follow you I saw them regularly. Things would show up in my yard. I had this video of a triangle of orbs going up and down, making sure my security camera got it. And I wondered if they were bugs, which is naturally what you'd think is the IR is illuminating bugs. So, I decided to turn the the security camera on long record, go out through the carport, and come around and see.

And I went out through the carport, came around the corner, and I could see them with my naked eye. It had nothing to do with the IR. And they were just sitting there doing this on a triangle. And as I turned around the corner, they took off and went straight up. Okay. So, uh you will find that I am the incident in his book, UFO of God. Whoa. Okay. And he told me while I was there that uh Jim Semivan said, "Oh, yeah, you

should let Bob in. This should be So, Jim Semivan opened the door for me. That's so wild. So, what do you think Why do you think somebody who's so high up at the CIA like Jim Semivan, seems like a really smart, awesome guy, uh like what why would he be interested in Chris Bledsoe? Cuz like Yeah, what do you think? He Jim has now talked publicly, so I don't mind saying he had experiences of

entities in his room with with his wife. And they were not pleasant experiences. So, that's traumatized him and his wife. And so, he became interested in finding out answers. And then he heard about Chris Bledsoe and knew enough traditional texts and Latin, Roman, Greek, whatever to show this lady stuff is real. It's in the church and so forth. What is Do you have a sense of what the

lady stuff is? Cuz I believe part of the Chris Bledsoe prophecy is that Easter uh cuz he see he sees uh her every Easter. He goes out to this one little place next to his property and and talks to her. And I he I think it's something like Easter of 2026, we're going to have important event happen. Do you know about this? I have a real story to tell about that, He sees

missiles being fired at the country of Iran. While he is observing the event, including some astronomical events that are in sky over the top of the pyramids at Giza. From the astronomical event, astronomers have calculated that date. So, he doesn't know whether it was a vision or he was transported in time,

the entities intervened to stop the bombs from landing. he sees. Now, how do I know that anyone takes any of this seriously? Here is how I know. Grant Cameron visited, who's a well-known UFO person. Uh right, written many books on the experience of the phenomenon and so forth. He went and visited Chris. And Chris shared a picture with him that

Grant put up on his Facebook page. So, I saw the picture. everyone who had seen that picture missed the import of it. And how What is the import of that picture? It's a napkin and an envelope with a napkin partially obscuring the address that's on the envelope. I knew the address because it was the address of Chris Bledsoe. I knew the napkin because it was the presidential seal on a napkin from Camp

David. There's only one way you can have that napkin cuz it's a crime to copy the presidential seal. There's only one person that can get you to Camp David. And the picture was mailed to him by Tim By Tim Taylor? And the only person that Chris story can have been told to in that envelope was Barack Obama. Oh my god.

The letter to me is ironclad proof that Chris's story was taken all the way to Barack Obama. Via Tim Taylor? So, this is crazy. And you're sure that that seal and that you can't copy it. The Secret Service and those will come and get you. Oh my god. And then Grant and others have not been slapped around for doing it. So, the napkin was legit. And whoa. So,

this is brings up all sorts of you know why I'm a good intelligence agent. Just from looking at the picture. that's really impressive. of stuff I used to do. Well, well, Tim Taylor to me is the like people as like who who's the number one person you want to interview? Like Elon Musk. And like I love Elon. But like I He'll never give an interview. Tim Taylor. He'll never do it. I met him once briefly, but I I he's kind of gone dark on me. And I would do anything. He's my number one person who I want to speak with because he's so I got him to talk to me for about 10

all sorts of interesting things. They go to the Vatican together. At the Vatican Observatory, they know who Tim Taylor And they let him into the Vatican archives without her presence. Without her presence. Without an escort. He's a guy who's I guess he claims that he flashed all sorts of interesting, you know, three-letter credentials like all of them as if he was sort of and then Ryan Bledsoe, Chris Bledsoe's son, says that Tim Taylor was part of told them that he was part of a

secret time travel group in NASA in the Bahamas. And Townsend Brown was the president of that time travel travel group. I would think all of this were to be it totally insane and I'd write it off completely out of hand. But I know that Townsend Brown spent a lot of time in the Bahamas and he experimented with gravity, but he was secretly extremely interested in time travel because time and gravity are really coupled in general relativity. So, who is Tim Taylor and why does he keep popping up in all these places? Your time axis is not my time axis

because whatever gravitational differences are there are between us. Uh your warped space-time so that your time is not my time. You Okay, but that What does that have to do with Tim Taylor? It's just It's just so interesting that all this gravitation stuff shows and Gates. Gates is a famous physicist who has shown how general relativity allows for the transmission of information back in time.

So GR does? But how does it? I didn't because isn't there the Hawking chronological conjecture whatever? How Yeah, how can you send it back in time? So, I think that there's a certain censorship. You can't do certain things if they violate certain conditions. But sending something back that's just information uh doesn't necessarily violate any of those restrictions. And so Gates has written down how you get time travel backwards

out of a general relativity. I don't think others have. I think I think people have already worked out through numerical simulation uh how you could use black hole gravitational curvature to travel through time. There's the traversable wormholes. There's the idea that you can reverse qubit positions in quantum computation. So, it actually makes probably even more sense that you could send info back in time using quantum mechanics. But all this is interesting, but like what about Tim Taylor? Tim Taylor is a NASA mission

controller who has access to the president of the United States? And done miraculous work in uh in uh orthopedic um uh instruments. Vivax Biotechnology. It's a And he's and and and my it made it a hundred million dollars on it. So so who so who is he? I don't know the answer. Because how are you an astronaut mission controller, a biotech entrepreneur, you're telling Diana Pasulka you're part of a secret space program, and you're getting sort of orders on high from places that like even your your you know

immediate superiors don't understand that you're part of a secret space He's he he works for the hammer. That's the story. And no one that I know knows who the hammer is. So the hammer is this like ineffable entity that I don't even know if it's human. I don't know if it's NHI. I don't know what it is except he told Bledsoe he works for the hammer. And does Bledsoe like Tim Taylor or what's what's Yeah, I I I think that the relationship has grown

more distant. They're not really good friends that much anymore, but they were friendly, and the story that I like most is Tim Taylor brought a piece of the Roswell crash, put it in the Chris's hand, and others in the family, and Chris showed an enormous unexpected reaction. And response to Chris being impacted so heavily by this UFO material was

"Why you? I don't understand why you." And they they tell that story all the Why you like in a suspicious way? Why you why you in a curious way? Not negative, just curious. And and his son his son as well, right? His little the connection there. R- re- There are There are There are multiple members of that family that have really unique I got to get out there. Yeah, we had a good interaction.

Yeah, yeah, we should go down I'm supposed to go down and can do show him some new When are you going? I'll let you know, so we'll just go together and maybe even video it. Field trip. Field trip. Love it. Is there anything else we should we should cover that, you know, you think is worth bringing up or experiences that are weird. So, I I can't think of anything except I'm going to keep working on this UAP

based science. Uh I am look having to learn re- learn and relearn stuff, but I'm making progress. but it's not like I don't have any abilities. I took quantum mechanics and differential geometry and relativity when I was in college and did well. And then when I went to Brown, I took quantum field theory from Leon Cooper who gave us the next formation for superconductivity and won the Nobel for it. So, it's it's not I'm I'm prepared.

It's been a lot of fun and excited to see what you do in all your new scientific endeavors and hopefully we go to the blood cells with you and the journey continues. Let's do it.