“I Saw A 300ft UFO In The Indonesian Jungle” (Ft. Michael Herrera & UAPGerb)

technologies from these black programs and putting them into the hands of people who don't know what the [ __ ] they're doing is a smart move? James Allen, the documentary of Mark McCandish and the Flex Liner story, he was diagnosed and dead of an aggressive form of cancer in about 3 weeks. Yeah, the UFO stuff's cool cuz they fly. the medical [ __ ] the stuff that we could also do with this technology is going to be far more advanced. couldn't be more excited to talk to you.

This has been a long time coming. You were a former Marine, correct? who experienced something just really fascinating in 2009 in Indonesia in the jungle and uh it involves craft that prosaically is not understood as far as how it works and uh and also seemingly special forces. We don't know if it was special forces. you don't describe them definitely as special forces, but a team with prowess and wherewithal as far as

the machinery they're using and how smooth they're operating that also seems like at another level and they're kind of apprehending you when you see this craft. And so I'm very excited to talk to you. I know it took a lot of courage uh for you to speak out. And then we have Sammy UAP Gerb as well here, uh, who's a legend, has an amazing channel, goes as deep as anybody when it comes to actual legacy operations from like a core detail, uh, way, just just the facts. And, uh, so very excited to have you, man. And you, you guys have done a great show together, too. And if you

guys want like very low-level details as to what went down, drawings, pictures, illustrations, extremely detailed, you know, uh, uh, accounts, uh, go to your channel because you have you have some great stuff with Michael. So, It's very thorough, which is something that's very especially in this space. It's extremely Correct. Correct. And that's kind of the thing why it made easier to talk to you because you were actually able to connect the dots and see and compare notes basically to what you've experienced with other talking to other people. I mean, your story had been floating around for a while and people

were pretty dismissive of it until, you know, our our mutual friend Joey is not my name started to uh reach out to you and speak to you and he got me in contact with you and you were able to provide quite a bit of interesting information including, you know, direct evidence from yourself and Joey that you met up with a who you referred to at the time as an insider. Who now turned out to be Jake Barber. Correct. And that was the thing that I was kind of weirded out about. So in 2023 when I testified um with the

up going up to he was doing a book signing so I went and got a book because that was the only way to get in front of him at the time when he was doing book signings. He doesn't do that anymore people can get very crazy. I've seen it firsthand. It's a little hysterical but you know this this subject brings a very interesting crowd with it which is something I don't relate to as whatsoever but I mean to who of their own so I had uh told him you know hey u you know I'm a former marine you know I had witnessed something such as like a

drug running operation using this kind of technology do you know anything about that so I was trying to get his attention he was kind of like yeah I've heard a lot but then when I said that he like told everybody to shut up and he stood up and handed me his card and he was like, "Don't tell anybody this information. Don't relate to anybody. Just keep it between us. Contact me when you're ready." And then when uh he did the first episode of Sean Ryan um is when basically he was talking about the whistleblower protections and going through the system to basically go through that route. So I was like, you know what, that might be time to actually pull a trigger on this and see

don't know if you remember me." And he goes, "I know exactly and I remember exactly who you are." Which was weird. So, um, he gave me his phone number. So, I called him. We basically talked for about an hour. Just kind of went through what I've already discussed publicly, which was essentially that we were a part of 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit that was tasked out to basically respond to a humanitarian assistance operation out in the Philippines. which was Operation Katsana. And then what ended up happening was we were the only ship which was the USS Denver that routed out to the western part of Sumatra in

Indonesia and which was a little weird but you know of course I've never been on a mission before that point so that was kind of the first one for me. Why were you guys rerouted? It was the only ship but that was the orders we were given. I don't know specifically why. Um there was speculation and then when we actually got briefed at the in the ward room that there was some Obama's family members that were there. So they had some SEAL team that was going to be there to retrieve those people if need be. That's interesting cuz Obama lived there from age 6 to 10 I believe with his mom or something. Yeah. And so there were some relatives and they were going to

get them out because what happens in that part of the world is when there's a natural disaster happens usually these terrorist organizations or these insurgent groups will typically try to take over that area and inflict harm, chaos, ransom. I mean whatever they do and uh so they were afraid of that. So that's why they sent a reactionary force to basically go cord the area off and then go deal with that which we didn't do too much of that. All we basically did was try to provide security for an LZ so that way they can keep, you know, we can keep if there were people there,

which would this particular LZ didn't have anybody there, which was weird. For the audience, what's an LZ? Landing landing zone. It's more like a hasty LZ. So hasty LZ means it's a hasty landing zone. So it's something that wasn't like prepared ahead of time like we're going to plot here and this is where we're going to go. It's just like here's the clearing. This is where they're going to land. At least that's how it felt. Pilots can probably attest to something different. I don't know. And then uh basically that's when we disembarked the helicopter. And for us it's like okay you're going to have the tactical advantage take the high ground. So that's what we decided to do. And I

wasn't the one who was in charge of all this you know. So there was weird to not have the comms because everybody's talking about that. I was not the one to set up. Maybe the squad leader or whoever was in charge at that point had something. You guys had no comms, no signal. No. I don't remember anybody having that. We could have had a little radio or something that the the sergeant that was there at the time sent into the jungle alone basically with your with your unit. Correct. You know, so it's like a a fire team plus two, you know, so six guys and uh so we end up, you know, seeing this craft which

that's amazing. Who made this? So there's a I was actually looking for other accounts of octagonal craft that people may have seen. So, I did a quick Google search, came across this on Etsy, and uh so some I can't remember the gentleman's name, but I end up getting in touch with him and told him who I was. So, he sent me two of these. One, I signed for him and sent it back to him so he can have that and two because he, you know, he hooked me up with two models. And but did he make that to spec or he had already built that and

No, he he made this to spec. So, this was after the fact of what I came forward with, but this essentially is what we saw. Wow. So, um it almost looks like a like a fractal like you have like uh you know kind of an accentuated version of the eightgon or octagon shape on top that's like a pyramid and then you have like a lesser you know a less concave version in the in the middle and then like an even less you know more kind of spread out. And this is off from memory because what people, you know, yes, this was like a very matte black, but then it was also

transitioning like a light matte gray. And I don't know if we were going down this hill and we could still kind of see it and maybe sun was hitting it to an extent or I don't know, but it was basically like it was changing colors, but these this panel right here, whatever these are, were basically the very vanta black, which was the blackest I've ever seen anything. There's like light could get absorbed into this almost like a like a like a black hole or something. Kind of. That's the only way I can describe it. Or Van Vantablack is this car, this BMW the paint that they did that it basically absorbs light. It's very crazy

have done that. I would have fired on him." It's like, "Yeah, good luck with that, but get pulled over by a cop and have a have a weapon and see how fast you can reach while he's already got his drawn on him. We'll see how well that works for you." You know, FFO. You and your fellow Marines, you did not have rounds chambered. No, we did not. when you were encountered in like a pinser formation. We were in condition three. So all we had was a magazine insert. So all you have to do is hit the charging handle to chamber around. But if we're sitting there patrolling because this is the funny thing is there's a lot of optics that are played in stuff like this, right? So it's not like yeah you're

wanting to use this. Now granted [snorts] Indonesia is the second largest terrorist capital in the world, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to encounter any kind of bad guys, which we really didn't encounter that. And for these operators who we encountered, who's to say that they're really bad? Because the difference is is if some if we were to do an operation ourselves and we had people we had no idea that were armed coming up to us, I'm pretty sure we'd react in the same way, especially if there's something that's going on that we either need to protect people, protect assets, or something going on, we're not going to have the same kind of welcoming like, "Yeah, go ahead and take

a look, guys." You know, before we speculate on what was going on there, just the core details, how long did you get a clean shot? like a look at that craft uh several times. Um because while we're being held up at gunpoint, which these guys are at standoff distance, it's not like they're sitting there pointing a muzzle right at your face like this close cuz you know that's only Hollywood that does that and these guys are smart enough just like in the military you're going to be at a standoff distance so nobody can get the advance advantage of you trying to disarm you whatever it might be. So um but frequently dealing

with these guys and dealing with that craft it's just going back and forth. So, like how long is this process where you Yeah. have a clean look at the the craft? Is it like It's minutes. It's not It's minutes. Okay. Wow. It's nothing like substantially long. It's just enough because like I said, these trucks were coming up. Which were either Tundras or F350s. More than likely, they're probably Tundras, but the only thing I could make out was that it was some sort of heavy duty truck that was built on that some sort of chassis that was big enough to pull these containers. And how close are you to the craft while

you're being apprehended? maybe 150 300 m if that because the the way like this clearing was pretty big but this craft was enormous and there was because even in the rendition there's like a platform below the craft correct and do you have any like first intuitions as to what that served as the platform versus the platform came into that craft itself it lifted off the ground now when you're looking at it like this I mean of course then you can see that there's like a metal pole there to basically hold this up up top but there is no metal pull or

nothing to support that. Right. So, this thing was either anti-gravidic itself and how it basically merged in together. So, it's something like it's very like a there's air force cargo planes that basically detach the fuselage so that way they can just roll the plane off, load up everything, load it, and then just take off. I'm hyp I can't even speak today. I'm hypothesizing that that might be the same kind of concept, just something very quick. They just load up, get whatever they want, and get the hell out of there. And so these guys apprehend you and what sort of equipment do they have? Do they

say anything? So they're they're obviously talking about they want to smoke us or what should we do with these guys? They're making threats. We can get lost out here. We can, you know, take you anywhere pretty much. We can kill you. Should we shoot these guys? You know, like it it it's going back and forth and it was only just two of them talking with this. But you could tell by their dialects that they were American. You can tell by their facial expressions that they were, you know, they were serious people. How many are they versus how many are you? So there's six of us and there are eight of them. And they, like I said, they were split off. So when they kind of approached us

when we were going down in a tactical column, they were four and four on each side. So they basically almost have what they call a nosebleleed. So they basically had sectors of fire like this on. So for them to fire upon us is not going to take as many rounds because they could just hit us instantaneously. So these guys knew what the hell they were doing. And uh that was interesting, you know, having thought about at least what these guys' backgrounds could be. Then Jake comes forward, which is interesting, especially his background and his people, you know. So very good

guys, by the way. But these guys in particular, I mean, it's they were so fluid and so smooth. It's like they've done this several times. It's just protocol. They just know it so well. It was just very fluid. Hey guys, I want to tell you about my new favorite piece of apparel. These are called the perfect jeans. They're literally the perfect jeans. I used to wear jeans all the time and they're kind of rough and not super stretchy or breathable. These are extremely comfortable. They work in casual environments. They work in work

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perfect gene.nyc. After purchase, they'll ask where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them that we sent you. [ __ ] your khakis. Get the perfect jean. basically take our weapons from us and they're just taking the magazines out. They're checking to make sure there's nothing racked in there, which there wasn't. I think they may have said something about that, too. And um because there's no way if they would have engaged us and we have to raise our

weapon up and it's not chambered. Well, yeah, you're going to have to rack around into the chamber and then flip it off safe and fire while they already have their safe. You could hear them flip them off and then basically just they could have got us. You heard the safeties flip off? Oh, yeah. Wow. And did they have any other um They had uh something that was like a a biometrics. It's like a bat system because that's something that we were kind of taught a little bit on how to track people. see biometrics tracking and uh so when insurgents were having

this used on them that takes fingerprints, it takes pictures and all that kind of stuff. They had something very similar to that. And then they had like a um did they take photos or or fingerprints? They were trying to take So they took our CAT cards out of our our pockets which we always have our CAT cards in our left breast pocket. And so when they took that out, they were trying to scan them and I don't know if it didn't work or whatever, but they were getting frustrated with it. And then this is when they took out another device that looked like a, you know, modern day smartphone, very thin. And then I've had people that were formerly of the CIA tell me that these are CavCom devices

that they use. And that's basically what they were able to translate and get that information to whoever had it cuz they knew who we were after that point because they had our IDs, had our names, they had our ranks, everything. So, as that's going on, they're searching us down, you know, which I had uh before making that truck down the hill, I had a little Panasonic camera that I actually took pictures of this thing with from a top view, at least because there's some parts of it that were obscured because of vegetation. And I also had pictures of the helicopter, you know, like one of them was, you know, when we're on the ship and, you

know, I had all these photos that I took, you know, even out of town and all that. And um they didn't find it in my dump pouch, which was good cuz then the whole time I'm thinking like I got something that can [ __ ] prove this. It's not just [ __ ] hearsay, right? And uh so what did you have that could prove it? The pictures and and that was in your That was in my pouch. And they never searched that pouch. So I was a saw gunner by trade. So that's what we always had was, you know, everybody has a pouch, but typically I

just had like um drum mag pouches instead of a regular M16 or M4 magazine pouches, which I had a magazine pouch right here just in case we had to use magazines for the saw because it could take both belt fed with magazines. So as they're going through us, they're basically searching us up and down, and then they're basically just threatening us again, just kind of roughing us up a little bit. And then that's when the trucks started coming because yeah, I'm paying attention to these guys that are doing this stuff to us and then all of a sudden I'm paying attention to these trucks that we start seeing pull up and

they have these trailers on the back that have this HVAC system on the top. So that was the suspicion I had that it was drugs because some of the heavy equipment industry that I do deal with um they have containers that do that for like um vegetation or for like food or for equipment that needs to be chilled, whatever it might be. So I'm like, "Okay, I think it's drugs. So they drove drive these trucks onto this platform here which is you can see like when the trucks were going up that it was getting the trucks were getting smaller which was able to kind of gauge

the size a little bit and then they were loading it on. I mean I don't see how they I didn't see how they actually took trailers off drove onto the platform that like seemingly levitates up make any noise. It didn't make any noise. You said it makes like almost like a bass like a hum the whole thing itself did the whole time and it's something that's so different that if somebody was to recreate it accurately like Joey kind of did the same thing which is very Correct. And it was something like that

cuz it wasn't a traditional propulsion system by any means. It's not like a rotor inside something. And so you got photos of the crown. Yes, I did. I took video and photo when we were on top of that hill is when I took photos of this thing and it was obscured by some vegetation. And that's what caught our eye because it was something that was very abstract from the rest of the environment is changing colors. It's like is it a building? What the what the hell's going on? That wasn't the one who made the decision to go down there to go find out. And when you were on top of the hill, you couldn't see the trucks or the operators. Couldn't see people because like I said, it's very dense

jungle, very thick vegetation. There's some clearings of course there's some what I could remember at least, you know, which mainly was a vegetation. I can't tell you if there's mountains or hills or anything, which I remember there being hills of course when we were flying. it could kind of peek out. But, um, other than that, I don't know exactly where we went or or where we landed to or anything like that. And I know there's been people that have been trying that have asked for help to see if they could find the LZ's, and to no avail, they can't because there's no information on them. And the F350s or Tundras or whatever these trucks are, they're attached to

it's like containers with H. Yeah. Yeah. What do the containers look like? So, it's like a kind of like a shipping container a little bit, but a little bit more reinforced if you want to call it Okay. And um that and that's what I hypothesized it was drugs. It was just like you know and so it also had things that are like pelican casings on the back of the actual truck beds themselves. So there could be weapons, there could be other things in those things cuz they're very airtight and they seal up from moisture pretty well. So it keeps everything dry. So yeah, it could have been weapons, it could have

been anything, but we mainly would put weapons in those. So I'm assuming they did the same thing, too. Yep. And uh so when we saw the last trucks go up is basically when this whole thing happened with the platform raising up and then the craft lowered itself and then it went over the tree line cuz it was right in it was like literally on the ground or not on the ground but it was hovering on the ground but it was low enough that it was actually lower than the treetops. So this thing rose up past the treetops and then it shot off to the left. But prior to doing that because it's rotating and it was rotating in a uh

clockwise motion. So you can start seeing these lights appear on the very corners of this thing which were red, yellow, green, and blue is the only things I remember seeing. And then this thing just shut off and it was just like a black blur. So extremely fast. Extremely fast. Fast enough that obviously it for some reason did not disturb the vegetation around it. There was coconuts in these trees that could have easily fallen off with rotor wash or exhaust wash from low-flying aircraft. That didn't happen. And obviously it didn't make a sonic boom either because of how fast this thing

flew off. But it was just like a black blur. That's incred. I mean any estimates on speed or is that just really hard? I mean several thousand miles an hour. I've never seen anything fast like that. I wanted to be a fighter pilot too. So you know I know what aircraft and how they move and I can tell you all the armament that can go on these things and this was never something that I ever would think I would ever experience. Did it shoot off inland or towards the ocean? towards the ocean and any sort of uh ruffling of the treetops or like so like it almost like felt like it was

it was almost like in his own set like it own environment nothing that could react to what our environment was and so this is important I think to tell the audience like ETSs are never mentioned in the context of the the core details of this story have nothing to do with and did you did did you have a first instinct on whether this was made or not of this earth or two things. Well, prior to that, I didn't believe in the subject and I ridiculed the hell out of people for it.

It was like you guys are [ __ ] crazy. Like they make movies great, you know? Of course, the movies they come out are all [ __ ] terrifying and [ __ ] So, it's like you can imagine a xenomorph if that exists and what it would do here. You know, like um or The Thing from John Carpenters. I mean, something like that. I mean, that [ __ ] that [ __ ] [laughter] But you know, did you ever encounter it in military context before this where like Yeah. Okay. So like literally no zero context. Zero context. And it was one of those things. So I didn't believe in it. I never saw anything like that. Did you ever suspect we had aviation

extremely ephemeral, weakly entangled with that. Maybe there is some sort of sensor pickup. But things like this where you see a thing sort of hovering there, fly off, people interacting with it. I mean, that seems mostly if the man-made were Why would ET be trying to help out these guys out of anybody? You know, that's that's kind of the thing that I that I, you know, repeatedly say because it's like, no, 100% it was man-made, right? we based off of that I can confidently tell you and I know for a fact recently you know throughout the last almost two

years I know for a fact we have you know reverse engineered technologies um and that's where the big secret is is because they don't want people to know that because then they have to explain to the whole world and why we're still on fossil fuels why are we still having to depend on oil and gas for our vehicles or even medical technology being as it could be further advanced you know which I've been exposed to and uh everybody gets confused to think that Jake's team has access to this technology. It's like, no, this was somebody else that was in the programs that was on a geneticist level that was

dealing with this kind of stuff that has this technology. I'm even hearing this cuz I've heard you on a couple of podcasts, Gerbs and and Sean Ryan's and I I think maybe the most overlooked detail is the mission itself. It feels weird. It does. It's like, okay, Obama's family is You don't have comms. Yep. Do you ever think you were sort of set up or there was something around the mission itself that was a little I mean it's it could be entirely possible. I don't know. I wasn't in

planning this mission or planning anything like that. I don't know. It's very odd and it's very weird. It's not typical. But then again, this is the first experience of going on a first mission by, you know, since I was freshly in at that time. So that was the first mission I ever did. So it's like, okay, it's kind of like just put together really quick, you Yeah. That's what it felt like. Cuz I think this is important to touch on too. This wasn't with your normal fire team. No, it was not. Your squad leader, your fire team leader has spoken out against you before public, but this wasn't with your team.

No, it was not. And this wasn't a special mission. No, there's no secret mission with this. This is basically almost like a working party. It was good because we just wanted to get off the ship. and that's all it resulted. So yeah, if we do LZ security loading up boxes, well, yeah, it's better than being cramped up on a ship. Do you ever think because later Jake Barber backneled with you and I think he dealt with the transport of highv value targets. He And so do you ever think that maybe this actually had something to do with Obama's Indonesian long-lost family and they were actually being transported on

these uh containers? I don't I I don't think so because when So now that everybody understands the mission and at least with what we encountered now I can kind of go into talk about how I met Jake. Yeah. Okay. But real quick before we get into this, what happened to the photos? Okay, so good question. [laughter] So what happened was we end up going back to Subi Bay after that whole, you know, the mission. We end up getting shipped going back to the Philippines. Basically regrouping for the rest of the We pull into Subic Bay. So we have like I think four or five days of liberty

So I had my camera so you know which these guys also had their phones which I don't think they took them with them. They may have. I don't remember. But I had my locker secured when we were going out into town and we were supposed to report back, excuse me, at night time, right before, you know, I think 10:00 is when we had a B or 11:00, I can't remember. But um end up going back that night, the first night we were out. And then I go into my locker and uh so of course there's nothing there's the camera's not in there. And I look at my rack and then there it is cuz I had the

top rack and uh there it is. And the battery is missing and the memory card is missing. So, I had another battery in my locker. So, I went and got that, popped it in, tried to turn it on, and it wouldn't work. So, I threw it away. The other guys that were with me were missing their phones and some other stuff that they had. And that's still remember what I can remember, at least with one of the guys was there. But, um, that was very weird because who else would have access to that? And the lock was not broken. M. So I don't know how they jimmied open

that locker with that lock on it unless they popped it somehow and took that camera out because that camera was secured and then they get back and there it is just completely, you know, disheveled and you can't turn it on. It doesn't work anymore. So there goes the the evidence of that. So somebody knew what was going on. And then obviously this Air Force lieutenant colonel if that's really who it was. But as somebody is, you know, they had an Air Force dress blue uniform with ribbons, a shitload of them. They had um jump

wings. They didn't have no pilot badge or nothing like that. Then they had Lieutenant Colonel Insignia, which is a silver oakleaf. And uh he was at the CP and basically threatened me. What's CP for the Audi? Control point or command post. Sorry, not control point. So it's a command post. And uh this was back when we were Camp Hansen. And so there was nobody there. So this is back state side in No, no, no. This was in Japan or Okinawa. Okinawa, which is Japan, but So um when that happened, so it happened to all of us, but it wasn't at the same

time. And that's basically when he had made us sign an NDA saying you weren't going to talk about this. The only things I remember on it was TSSCI and Indonesia were the only things. I remember putting my social security number on there. I remember putting my first and last name or middle name too. And then um he told me flat out that if you talk about this, you can go to prison or you can be executed over it. that means it's time to get organized

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Armed Services for example, there's no protocols that would allow for something like that to happen unless you were working on a program. So I don't know whether this was just a scare tactic to basically just say, "Hey guys, we haven't forgot about you." Also, for the audience's sake, I do think it's important to say uh you haven't made any money off of coming out with this story. And in fact, I know this about you and I know you know this GB, too. you have a pretty successful business out here in Colorado. Multiple companies. Yeah, multiple companies. And so, if anything, you're sort of losing money.

I mean, I don't know. I've had, you know, I I have Rolexes. That's one thing I collect. That's another business that I do with, you know, obtaining watches and trading them up or selling them. You know, it's a good side hustle if you can find the right buyers, of course. But, you know, it's one of those things that I have to grind to make money and the best way I do is with my companies. You know, this doesn't I'm not getting paid to be here today. I don't get paid for interviews. is I don't get paid to go have meetings at Cap Hill or anything like that. I sure as hell don't get paid to go attend Griers events to either, you know, speak at some of them because

something may be valuable. And that's kind of the thing that, you know, I wish I was making more money because who the hell wouldn't want to make more money, but this isn't a path to do it. the thing that I tell people is just like, you know, you'll know people by their deeds. You know people based off their actions and what they do. And what I'm trying to do is basically solve this problem we've got. I remember hearing your story around that National Press Club event and my first reaction is this is the weirdest of all the testimonies and so I didn't know what to make of it and then my second like meta reaction is like

maybe it's the most likely to be legit because it is so not like a script you would write like it's so weird it is and it's there's so many loose ends where uh of course you're signing up to get accused of all sorts of [ __ ] you know by just telling the story of who are going through this get accused of it. It's nothing new. I don't pay attention to it. I don't care what anybody says. Doesn't do anything. They're not paying my bills. I mean, this is the problem with people these days is they put too much validation into people who realistically hate to say it this way, but don't matter. Why am I going to care

what a cab driver or a bouncer or some random person walking down the street that I have no idea exists until just seeing them? Why Why am I going to put more emphasis on what they care about? Or because somebody says something on Twitter who is hiding behind a ghost account? like I'm not going to put effort into that. I put effort into what I'm doing as best as I can, which business is my first thing. That's my livelihood. That's how I make money. And I've lost I've lost contracts. I've lost business because I've came forward. So if anything, it has hurt me. Yeah. So you come back to the US and

this is what 2009 2010 2009 rough or Yeah. So probably 2009 and then yeah getting back probably 2010 early. How long do you stay silent on the topic and what convinces you to go public? So, at the time, like I talked about meeting Greer in 2018, I kind of hinted around that my ex I was with at the time, I told her a little bit of the reason why I was wanting to approach and then so she kind of heard a little bit of it, but then when I came forward

fully um through Greer's press club or press club event, but also he had a two-day event before that, too. This is where Jake was basically where I'd met Jake, but I didn't know it was him, if that makes sense. He introduced himself, but I had no idea it was this and uh so he I mean he's you know, so that was the first time you had ever come out was this National Press Club event with Greer and you can add color to this as well because I know you know know a lot about Steven Greer. Um he had held a similar National Press Club event like two decades earlier or something.

And just also broadly Steven Greer was the guy over the last three decades if you were going to come out and say anything on this topic. He was kind of the only game in town in many ways. And there are other researchers that you like to talk about, Bill Hamilton and others prior to Greer who've set a lot of the foundation for what he talks about. Yeah. But he was kind of the guy for somebody like Michael and his, you know, with his experience to come to. Not only that, but there was a long period of time, which may continue today, where researchers give Greer witnesses.

And so researchers say, "These are witnesses. This is their name, number, and background." And one example is Bill Hamilton giving primary witness um Brad S to Greer back in 97. So he's doing a more modern version of this National Press Club event. You're speaking at this event. Jake Barber, who's recently come out um again this Air Force vet who uh claimed firsthand retrieval is there, but he's there trying to infiltrate Greer on behalf of Legacy UFO programs. And so what what Well, you know, so it's interesting. So

I wake up to this message from Greer one morning and he sent it to me like 2:00 in the morning because he stays up pretty late. you know, he tries to be he lives in obviously the east coast and then he's like lives off a west coast time which is odd but that's his schedule. So I I I go to bed pretty early when I don't have anything pressing because I like to get my rest and then the next day I mean my days are usually crazy as it is. But um so I wake up this message and it's literally hey this gentleman you know I'm not going to say the alias that he was using um

because I don't want that to be out because then all of a sudden it'll just could create problems. If Jake wants to speak about that then Jake can speak about it on his own accord but I don't want to put anything in front of him that he doesn't need to be concerned with. So he says this gentleman uh knows what you saw but here's his contact information. Get a hold of them when you can. So I'm like, "Oh shit." So I sit on that for like a day and a half. I'm just thinking like, "What should I do? Should I just blow it off or so I get in touch with him." So I call him, no voicemail can be sent or

anything like that. Send him a text message. So all of a sudden he kind of goes off of a little bit in detail, wanted me to come out west to uh meet with him face to face and he can explain what it is that I saw, what he knows about it. I said I'll take my ser my security into consideration so cuz we got picked I got picked up in a armored vehicle which was pretty badass. And this was after you had met him at the National Press Club after you had given

state. I I had intro I was introduced to him but I wasn't in introduced to him as the guy who knew what I what so you had met him but you didn't connect the dots that that was this guy he didn't Yeah. who Greer was talking about who knew a little bit more about what you had experienced. Correct. Okay. Got it. So um you know the thing do you remember that interaction though at the national like I told him a little bit what I do business-wise and all that. So, he was kind of asking me questions, but you know, he he looked like I mean, because everybody's seen what he looks like when he wears his glasses and he's wearing like this suit jacket and the kind of stuff like

that. He kind of looked like a geek a little bit, you know what I mean? So, it's like, okay, this, you know, this guy's just probably something that with this, but here's a former tier one operator that's, you know, a badass guy that I mean, I wouldn't double cross that guy. He's just the guy's a him and his team are very good people, very good So, um, so he talks about the security aspect of it, which they'll pick me up in an armored vehicle, which was pretty and, uh, so we were trying to negotiate when I can fly out. So, we got a time

scheduled. So, I end up booking the flights and telling them this is when I'll arrive and you know, basically tell asking him where should I fly in and where do I, you know, fly back. So, he had told me basically how to set all that up and then he had transportation waiting for me. So, he gave me this gentleman's number and uh so they picked me up and uh we drive um from the airport to another location and uh we go to this pretty cool place and um where Jake was at. It's like an

And um where are you? I Well, I'm just going to say it's in Cal um California. Okay. Um but that's all I'm going to say, right? I'm not going to give specifics to where this location was, which is hard to do because I mean there's people who who research this and by all means research it, figure it out. You're going to find some interesting So, we go to this particular place in and he's so he introduces himself again. As this alias, right? And uh so he ends up sending a driver to

go get us lunch, which was cool. And uh so he he ended up knowing what I wanted, which was weird, but that's on a separate tangent. Um he knew what you wanted food-wise. This gentleman did because I told him I wanted some Subway cuz I haven't had that in a while, but he knew the exact order that was your favorite order or something. It was very So they had like a little dossier on you or something. I don't know if that's what the case was where this guy was. Well, it would make sense in the context of Jake even saying that his initial role was to red team or infiltrate. I

mean, he ran. And I mean, it's speculation, of course. He told me personally that what his role was after the fact of getting to know him and and you know, getting information from him for almost the past couple years. But this guy that was with him was a very good person, very good guy. Cool. And uh I mean everybody that I known through Jake was was a great person, you know. So we end up going into this office building or not really an office building, just like an office, like a conference room. So we sit down, he tells me, "Okay, go ahead and take

out your phone and put it in airplane mode and set it off on the side." So he I do that and then uh actually prior to that, he pulls out this wand thing. M it's like this box with this loop and he says so he went over it himself and was like go ahead and you know take it and do it to yourself and that's when he we heard the beeper go off on that wand because it went over the phone and it reacted. So he's like oh yeah go ahead and put on airplane mode and do that. So he's making sure it wasn't tra wasn't chipped or had any kind of you know listening devices or something you know like a wire for

example. So then we sit at this conference room table and you know he's explaining to me what it was. He explained the containers. He explained the program P3 which is P3 is not the real program designation. It's just what they call it. Which was a psionic potential predisposition. Okay. And so yeah. Yeah. What which I mean it sounds it sounds very far out there. Yeah. But being in these shoes for the last almost two years and understanding that consciousness is really the key to this whole thing.

If you under if you want to understand how these UFOs operate, you need to understand consciousness better. And so who Yeah. What was in these containers? Because he thought initially it might have been drugs. I thought it was drugs. And he has said I was completely wrong about that. And what is he telling you? He's saying it is basically these people who are psionic assets who have been screened from third world countries that they use them because there's different groups that are recruited out of the United States to participate in different parts of the world. and explain what a psionic asset is.

These are people that are they have a psychic ability to an extent to my and they use these people to basically hook up to this advanced technology whether it's NHI technology ET craft if you will and um basically either summon them or call them invite them in. And then um the dark part about this whole thing cuz everybody started getting wrapped up in the human trafficking that got slapped onto it. Now

understanding how the dynamic is now where these people volunteer for this kind of work because one it's if you had an if I know if you guys had the opportunity to participate in something that was mind-blowing with this technology would you guys accept it? I'd be I'd want to know more. You [laughter] would I'd be cautious. What about you? You'd be cautious, but but if it was in a sense where you're participating because everybody's like, "Oh, there, you know, these people are dying and all that." Well, why aren't you complaining about people going to the military? Because you're taking risk going in the

military, too, where you could die. Or you, hey, you want to drive a a race car for a living, you happen to crash, well, that kills you. Or you play professional sports, you could always get screwed up. You know, when I did competitive bodybuilding, people talk about the risk of being on per performance-enhancing drugs. Well, let's even just super basically for the audience. So these psionic assets are what are they doing visav UFOs? They are basically getting into a cognitive or a state of consciousness to attract these craft to appear at these certain ranges in this

organization, not Jake's team. So everybody needs to understand that Jake's team is completely different from what this organization does. this organization will then sometimes target them with these EMP weapon systems, their scalar, and they knock them out of the sky. So, you're sort of baiting the UFOs to come in and then you're knocking them out of That's where Jake's team would come into um need is because his team would get contracted to go pick up these vehicles and then transfer them to a facility. Okay. So, you speak at the MPC, you're

then contacted by Jake and you're then taken to a location. Now, what about the other five Marines that experienced the eight gone possibly reverse engineered craft with you have what have they said because I don't know, but I want to only two of them have reached out after the fact. The other three have not and I don't think they're going to and I frankly don't think they're they ever want any part of this. Now, you I can attest to this. What have you personally seen because I've shared some communication with two of them. What did

you see them do? Yeah, both from communications like between you and them that you've showed me as well as Joey trying to speak to these two specific Marines. They always every single time say, "Leave me out of it. I don't want to talk about it." But never once have they denied it. You've offered to actually show us some of these texts while obviously removing any personally identifying information with your communications with one of You saw that. You saw the unredacted before, right? To make sure you did choose. You know the names. You guys have seen them. Yes,

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your first order. Lucy has a 30-day refund policy if you change your mind. Again, that's lucy.co and use code jesse to get 20% off. And here comes the fine print. Lucy products are only for adults of legal age. Every order is ageverified. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. Thanks so much to Lucy for sponsoring today's episode. Okay. So, this is which side is you, Okay. So, um I'm the pink the light pink text and this guy is the purple

purple text, right? Okay. So, he says, "Sounds good, bud." Says, "Hey, man. This is asking too much of me and it's not worth the risk." And this is presumably after a phone call you guys. Gave him a phone call from when I was instructed by some people in the Senate Intel. Try to get a hold of him to see if he wants to actually talk to us. Okay. So, you just spoke. You asked him to come out. He said, "Hey, this is this is asking too much of me and it's not worth the risk. My family and military career far exceed anything you are asking of me. It's not worth my life or jeopardizing my family. You need to get

out of whatever you are in and don't get me involved." Presumably, I can't view it because it's a screenshot. But he basically after that says, "Don't ever ask me to do this [ __ ] ever again." That's what he said, the last part. All This was another guy that reached out to me. Yep. Through LinkedIn after he saw my Shawn Ryan appearance. Yep. And again, Gerb and I both have seen the names. But squadmate, right? So, what the [ __ ] else does that mean? Saw your interview. My email is blank, right? So, I sent him a message said,

"Check your email." Sends this over. So, what's up, buddy? How you doing? He says, "I'm doing good, brother. Saw that you're getting the word out. Mad respect." Said, "Means a lot hearing from you, brother, especially since we were close." And then he says, "Yeah, brother. Keep the faith. there is nothing, no borders lines that they won't cross. Says, "Well, I have a spot for my team." So, basically, if you wanted to get involved with us trying to do this and um but that's pretty much it. And you guys saw it when it wasn't redacted. You guys saw the names. You guys saw that nothing was Yep. And you said, "Well, I have a spot

for you on my team if I go after trafficking ops." So, that's the human Yep. If that is the case, because there's some people who reached out to me that are combating real human trafficking in Africa, South America. he's uh obviously trained. So if he wanted to participate in doing that kind of stuff, I got people reaching out to me, hey, you want a part of a task And he says at the end, sounds be easy and stay safe. Wow. But yeah, it says, "Yeah, brother, keep the faith. There are no borders nor lines that they won't cross." Yeah.

Yep. And he's say you're getting the word out. The word out. Yeah. The word. Yeah. What is he talking about if he's not implying that he knows exactly what you're talking about? That's exactly it. the original Daily Mail article uh on you posted just a screenshot of one of the Marines. I know who it is saying. I'm like, "Leave me out of this. I don't I I have a family. I'm still in the military." Something like that. Like, I I don't want to speak about this. But you've showed many further. Well, I I have showed Yes. And I have reported though or not reported, but I have provided Senate Select Committee on

Intelligence all those messages because why would he be afraid to help? What's the repercussions if he helps? Obviously with what we experienced, why would the other guy be appreciative of me bringing that this out, getting the word out as he says? So, what happened to the other three? Are they just completely off radar? Maybe. I [clears throat] don't know. I'm I'm sure they're aware. I mean, most people are, you know, but I mean, it's it's up to them whether or not they choose not to. I completely understand. I'm the one that jumped the gun on us. So far, they have not contributed in a

sense at least that it was able to give me the messages that they sent me that I can provide to say, "What the [ __ ] would they be talking about?" If this wasn't real, they would be saying, "No, what are you talking about, dude?" But the fact they're not denying it, the fact that they're against it, such as they don't want to talk about it because of the ramifications, the first clue. Second clue, why would they be acknowledging and getting the word out? Yep. The only person saying this never happened was your fire team leader, who But I got two other Marines who say Right. Right. The fire team leader was not on the mission. He was not on the mission. I don't know what he was doing.

It's just wild you're in it. Sorry. Go for it. Yeah. I don't want to cut you But no, you know, it's just, you know, to him, they can think and believe whatever they want. I don't care. It doesn't ruin my mood. It doesn't do anything different. It certainly doesn't derail my mission and what I'm trying to achieve, at least with the transparency with this to get this problem reeled in once and for all. It begs all these questions of like if we're engaging in Black Ops in the jungle in Indonesia and you guys just kind of happened upon this thing, how many other remote locations where, you

know, you just never expect anybody to any passer by to kind of encounter this stuff? Is this is this going on? Right. Well, I mean, like I've been told, Jake's even aware, too, that there's several different sites all over the world. That deal with this and you know, Southeast Asia being one of them, third world countries, Mexico being one of them. And so because in your Shawn Ryan episode, Shawn uses the term human And so there's this big debate because I interviewed Jake and you know it's like this question of there was I believe

it's tsunami warning at the time, right? It wasn't a tsunami warning. So the the thing is is everything already happened. Oh, so this was post tsunami. This was post earthquake and tsunami. So then were you guys because I get the Shawn Ryan thing it was like there was like you were almost taking advantage or that the the the the quote unquote tier one operators whoever they were were taking advantage of the fact that this was a disaster zone. Correct. That was that was a theory. That was a theory. Or it could have been that their their

operation was compromised somehow and they needed to get away or whatever it might be. I mean it's it's just Do you have a bias in either direction? Do you think they were sort of rounding people off? I'm just neutral about it because of being in this situation and now understanding at least to to my knowledge of what takes place now. I had a negative, excuse me, outlook on it at first. Cuz I didn't understand it. The more I talked to Jake about it, the more he was able to put it into reference and why it made Now, is it something that is uh agreed

agreed upon? No. Because they're using children and that that's bothersome. that I don't know anybody who would who would feel good about that because I don't have kids but if I had kids they were getting plucked into these programs and you know being subjected to this kind of stuff. I would have a problem with that and I think anybody in their right state of mind would have a problem with that too. I agree. So you know there's there's some trade-offs with this but what people have to understand and they vilify these legacy programs like nobody's business like they're the they're all bad guys. It's not the case. This is the best and brightest this

country has to offer that get pulled into these programs to basically make our country better to an extent. Now there are some breakaway parts and factions of this that take their own routes i.e. Jake with his initiative with what he wants to do, which essentially make everybody understand that the legacy programs are not all that bad, but also have another outlet for people to pay attention to as far as making contact with other civilizations and inviting them in and

basically assessing the data that they which is public to an extent because this is what they're talking about doing. If you are baiting a thing that seems like it's coming from another world or planet or interdimensionally or whatever this is and then zapping it out of the sky, if you know it's bad, that's fine. If you don't, shouldn't we have some caution or should some be some sort of system diplomatic or whatever you you would say? But this is the thing is, you

if you're in the military or you're in some sort of capacity where you're taking orders, you're not really in a position to think necessarily. You're just going to do what's instructed for you to do. And I feel the same way is probably perpetrated in in people in these programs to an extent to think the same way. This is a reason why they cross deck into these agencies because they still have the same structure. They still have the same type of uh orders that are given or things like that. Yes, you're more freethinking, but at the same time, you're also doing sort of the

same work, but just in a different capacity. So, if you're taking orders to say, "Hey, this, you know, whatever comes into range, take them out." I don't think anybody's going to argue with that because the amount of pay that comes with this and this is your only opportunity. And these guys get paid pretty good. Yeah. Well, this isn't necessarily blaming the operators who are involved. No. That's the thing is that they're they're told one thing because the management level of these know what's going on to an extent and this is where it comes into either they're doing this for their own personal benefit or their gain um for

the whatever group they control i.e through money corion of certain things. But again, this is speculation, but at the same time, the facts are is that we are shooting them down. Yes, they are facts. And regardless if everybody out there says, "I've never seen this happen." Well, yeah, you're not going to. You're not a part of these programs. You're not a part of anything that's going to get you into this. Because the people that are involved with this, they don't like to talk about it. They like to do the work and they do what's required of them. They get paid a lot of money to do it. And some of the work, a

lot of the work that they do is probably very fun. They probably get to do things that are not normal that nobody in this room gets to say that they get to do, Do you think because you hear rumors of the psionic assets having sundowner syndrome or health effects or whatever and you get I mean I think this goes back to ancient esoteric practices and it's sort of this thing where if you're not of an extremely pure you know internally coherent state then you get a reflection of the pain that's inside of you. going to manifest whatever you're you're projecting out there. I think

that's realistic. But what we're talking about is not like trying to summon a You're summoning essentially technology that has consciousness to it. Now, what's the distinction? Well, the difference is is obviously if they're extraterrestrial that have a consciousness, they're coming from a different star system. That's what's Do we know that? We don't. This is the Now, they may know Yeah. based off of where however they're Could this just be like an occult thing that's been going on for hundreds of

How do you think they learn? How who these groups they learn from the occult? Sure. Interesting. The secrecy aspect of this is it, you you have different fraternities or secret societies. I mean, everybody knows I'm a Freemason. I've talked about it, but everybody speculates, oh, because I'm a Freemason, I'm a disinformation agent or something or I'm a part of the new world order. and then they see the SDG pin that I wear, which everybody says is the World Economic Forum. Sorry, I am too poor to be one of those guys and I do not fit

whatever they need. I think this is a important discrepancy to bring up too. Uh when Jake discusses Sky Watchers and some people on the Skywatchers team, the P3 assets are um quite engaged with what they do. They're happy. They're former military or they're, you know, well-treated individuals. When we first did our interview uh early in summer of 2024, what you knew at the time was that the P3 assets were essentially treated like trash given drug cocktails to interface with the craft, treated like garbage.

How does this well bridge connect? So here's the thing is I think a speculation because one of the things is because they're given drugs doesn't necessarily mean that they're treated like Travish. What it does is it allows them to operate at a higher level of consciousness even though there's some disassociation with it or if there's trauma related things that happen early on in their lives or they induce it somehow. Granted, this is not what Jake's team does. The operators he has on this team do not do what may these

legacy programs do. It's completely different. So everybody thinks that if Sky Watcher is participating in the same type of operations as Legacy, I hate to break it to you, it's not even remotely close. It's much more peaceful. It's much more um informative and something that's going to be a little bit more transparent compared to what Legacy is So it could have been a different program outside of Jake that referred to the P3s as like pink assets. Well, that's what they call that's what the program calls them or pink assets. What's pink asset? Bi biological equipment like cattle,

right? do. Yeah, that that's and that has always stood out to me. And granted, that is something that has been communicated to me is yes, that some of the programs refer to them as that. Doesn't mean Jake thinks that that that's the case, or at least that's how he personally views these people because he doesn't view him that way. But this is what the program treats him like. Now, corporations out there are no Big corporations treat people like numbers. Okay? Well, guess what? this guy died, so we have another person filling his spot and we can forget about it. The military is the same way. It's

just a constant grinder of repeating the trainings and getting people in these roles and then basically getting them up. If somebody gets out, they get in or they get killed, they get another person to fill the slot. So, it's no really no different from that. But in the same token, because it's so abstract that people want to lynch onto and say, "Oh, this is evil." Well, military is doing the same thing. Is there is there a way to do this that um is above board? It brings up all these philosophical questions because it's like I'm all for protecting the free world

and I do like the people who like you know create some false equivalence between right um you know the way people live in domestic China right now in the US as messed up as our country is I think you know I'd much rather live here and I'm I'm all for protecting% and so there are these game theoretic dynamics where I'm sure they're doing similar things but but then the the the metaphilosophical question is like we're talking about aspects of the sacred and like you know I don't know what these beings are you know they they could be angels they could be really you

know I they could be demon I don't know what they are well angels and demons don't need flying saucers to come here for let's get that so you think they're extraterrestrials but do we know but if they're not bad you're just baiting them and zapping them out of the sky it's no different than if I was to have an exotic car driving through a bad neighborhood and they decided to shoot me and steal my car because be messed up for them to do that's that's exactly it you want to talk about the ethical conflict here because that's really what it is, This is the reason why Jay came forward, right? Because there's nothing that he

there were things going on that he was not a fan of, right? Because I think Greer has spoken about this that when he spoke to Jake, Jake relayed that craft were being down and he was deeply un he was bothered by that 100% especially with the P3 is the way they're treated. So, and his goal now is to just get them peacefully because I I you know there might be biologics in the craft. If that's the case, you are turning possibly living biologics to dead biologics like well and that's what happens when they fall in the sky because they're subject to our laws of the universe with inertia and gravity and all that kind of stuff

if we could peacefully commune with these things that would be amazing. I Well, I think that's what Dr. Greer's whole C5 initiative is all about which I've personally attended a few of them. who you invited me to because it's more I like to see things firsthand to see whether or not it's there's anything credible. And yeah, Dr. Gri C5 is very real. It's very incredible and it's something that I think a lot of people need to understand that it's not by any means false. But if you if you listen to the ancient traditional

version of this stuff, it's always like you need to be 35, married, grounded, like you shouldn't like try to summon Well, this is this is the thing is we're going off of interpretation. What one purp what one person's interpretation is not going to share the same as the other Your interpretations are different than mine. Mine are different from yours and so on. It's just whatever you personally experienced, whatever's been your upbringing, whatever you believe valuewise is going to shape your narrative and what your thought process of a situation is. So, if you're brought

up on the more religious aspect of things, then yes, you're going to think aliens are angels or demons. If you're somebody who's esoteric, you're going to say, "Okay, it's it's interdimensional or it's something that could be extra right?" But it depends on what your upbringing is and what you believe on yourself of what it might be. But it doesn't mean it's correct. And so do you think these things come down and then you know we're talking about this octagonal eightgon shaped craft that seems to be possibly man-made

part material derived from what lands or gets zapped out of the sky then gets reverse engineered or implemented in these terrestrial exotic craft that we build. Is that right? That's to my understanding that's exactly how it happens. From my understanding, from what's been relayed to me was that every craft that they recover, they also make reverse engineered versions of trying to replicate that technology or that specific craft. So this I mean Jake saw pretty much the same thing except much

smaller. That's something that was able to be lifted up by a helicopter. This [ __ ] thing is estimated 300 ft. I don't think his helicopter could pick something up that big, you know. So, it take probably several helicopters. But in the same token, So, you think what you saw is a reverse engineered man-made version of what he saw? Cuz he locked on to possibly possibly because I mean, again, these there's different groups all over the world that are doing the same thing. So, yes, there's multiple black sites that probably have P3s that are being used to

lure craft out and then to shoot them down. That was the most fascinating part of my Jake interview is he was like, "Who is we?" And I was like, "I don't know. I assume like the US or like whatever, you know, aerospace corporations you might be working for." And and and then he was like, "No, we don't have shit." Yeah. Well, he's like, "It's all He's like, it's black money." It was almost like it was like mafia wars and international transnational corporations and interests, you know, across the world doing this stuff. And yeah, trying to investigate this subject, particularly with the vehicle

you saw, hit so many dead ends. I mean, it's been talked about publicly by Greer, but he always says that he knows the craft you saw, the souped up version of the agon retrieved is made by the Lockheit skull works in North Brumit. He he says that I myself have pressed into that with, you know, people who do art for him and say, "Where does he get Well, that's the thing is I think it's I think it's speculation. I mean, because unless you're physically working for these companies, you're not going to know what's what. I mean, he may be put connecting the dots because he's talked to over a thousand other people that may

have been working for these programs and maybe have articulated something personally to him. I'm not entirely sure of because I I'm not in Gish's head. What I will say is that this field offers a lot of speculation and it offers a lot of confusion because really at the end of the day we only know what we experience personally and what your interpretation of it and how you tell the story is going to be different than what you say. Because

here's the the problem. Every time you retell a story, you're reframing it based off of memory as much as you can. So yes, I understand that for myself with the story. There could be details I left out that I don't remember or there could be certain things, you know, so it's just going off of memory of what you retell your reframing. So with Jake's incident with him red teaming the event, I think it was it one of the things that is a little bit hard for me to accept is the fact that this meeting back channelled

from somebody in the programs. Doesn't happen with anybody. It didn't happen to Hecker. It didn't happen to DC Long. It didn't happen to Steven DNA. It hasn't happened to anybody else I know. And these are all these are all people that came forward forward with you and some of them went on Sean Ryan. I'm the only one that has been corroborated with or by people. Why do you think they chose you Because they knew what I experienced because of what their personal involvement is with what they And that's kind of the thing of why he offered when I went out, you know, to go

see him for the first time personally, not at the event, but just on a personal basis to explain what I saw. And um one of the things that was, you know, because anybody can say that they're a part of something, right? But how do we really know? when uh Jake took me on a nice little trip out to the desert, that was something that proved to me that this guy was legit. What' you see? I'm not going to tell you. I can't I can't talk about that. I'm not going to I'm not going to burn Jake in

the process because I had given him my word that I was not going to do that. Mhm. He could have easily had me sign an NDA or he, you know, originally they wanted to blindfold me and then just take it off and basically here you are, but that didn't happen. But you saw something cool and mindblowing and confirming of his Personally, yes. Yes. Personally, yes. Are you at least able to say if this was above or below ground? I can't tell you. I'm not going to hint to either or because I just, you know, like I said, I

don't want to burn Jake. Of course. He's he is the reason why I've been included in certain aspects of this because for me he wanted me to have firsthand experience with a lot of that are about this subject and he didn't have to do any of this for me. He could have just laid low. He could have just done his original job and I would have never seen I would have never understood it. I could have been just labeled one of the crazy psychopaths that some people think I am and that could have been it. Have you learned anything more about the fact

that maybe we have reverse engineered working craft like this 8gon craft in in our possession that we've actually built and we know how to fly and that sort of thing like this idea of alien reproduction vehicles which check out Gerb's channel. He does amazing work on and he talks about the Mark McCandish story. Have you heard anything confirming of that? Uh yes I have. But um it's not something from Jake's side of the house for example. It's more with other people that I've been in communications with

Anything you can share or Well, I mean, I can just say that they And I know where some of them are stored at, but that's about it. And do you think that the designs are copied or we derive material from the UFOs that come down or like what's the My understanding is that we don't necessarily replicate the same materials these things are made out of. Well, my understanding is we have the same they can get them to look the same using materials we have on Earth. Probably even, you know, of course,

who's to say that they probably replicate the same materials too in a lab somewhere or they make them because they know what they're made of now because they've been doing this ever since the 40s and 50s. They've been bringing these craft out. So, it's like design inspiration or mimicry or something. I think it's mimicry for the most part because if they get them to look, you know, something that looks extraterrestrial, but it's man-made and they want people to believe that, then by all means, they're going to do that. The other implication is that we have propulsion modalities in our possession and we can we can work this stuff.

let's just say you come up with something that's could be very beneficial. But for you, you understand it can make you money or you can control people with it and it puts you on a playing field that's above everybody else. Nobody else has the same stuff you do. But if you're this person who's greedy and this person who likes the aspect of being able to do whatever you want, except you get to fold it into some people who make decisions, i.e. and you pay them a lot of money or you pay them money to basically steer clear,

donate to their campaigns and you basically are above the law, you can coers politicians, you can coers military officials, generals, you name it, by just throwing them sacks of cash. Are you going to really want to share with everybody if you have the stranglehood on the most powerful country in the entire planet? I think most people wouldn't, but I'd like to think I would, but I don't know. I mean I mean or not necessarily on the but isn't

there a midpoint between those two things where like you use it as leverage to get, you know, dictatorships abroad to reform and you blackbox it in certain ways that can't be reverse engineered. You dole it out in civil infrastructure. You still make the world a better place, but you also allow it to confer an advantage. fiber optics and night vision and stuff like that. Right. So you believe the Philip Corso to an extent. I think that the the what's derived from it real but I don't you know his theory of how they were you know we have a jetliners that can fly

through a lightning storm no problem and very dead thunderstorms that have a lot of lightning and they get hit by it and nothing happens. So why is a something that's not even from this planet or from a different civilization that's more advanced than we are. way is something gonna be susceptible to a lightning strike. It's not. Do you know when we cracked gravity? If this is using like electrogravitic propulsion, do you have any theories Well, just from what's been already disclosed, which is 1954. We've had the hook on gravity control

since then. And what was 54 specifically? Well, it's just from what um Greer has alleged one of his teammates that was in a vault that saw the documents that talked about gaining that kind of control. And this guy's been on the record several times. I don't know his name specifically, but he's been mentioned quite a bit. There was some experiment where we tied electromagnetism to gravity based off of like even, for example, when they retrieved the stuff from Nazi Germany back in the ' 40s and then sent them over here with Operation Paperclip.

Now, this can get into a whole different but um they had some discs that they The Nazis did. The Nazis developed the stuff, but it wasn't stable. So, when they brought them over here, of course, you had the best scientists who were already working on this kind of stuff that were able to amplify it somehow. Now, that you have the US government backing you, giving you basically giving you right to do whatever you want because they need your And this is how NASA was created because it was a German who created this. Yeah. It was also the CIA and the FBI were

created by these people too. Yeah. Everything you're saying now I can tell you is definitively factual. Like conspiracy or von Braun Arthur Rudolph basically that the NASA Saturn project was a transplantation of the Nazi space program. And then you had Richard Mita Victor Shawberger uh you know a lot of these guys Henry Kanda who were working on lenticular lenticular aerodine saucers. either they moved over to the to the US or in Mita's case I believe he there's speculation he worked uh on the Avarocar project the Canadian

version Shaburgger I know the army counter intelligence corp tricked into giving all of his propulsion exotic propulsion stuff uh to the US and that made it actually to Brook Haven National Labs Nick Cook.com So and that that even brings up the question like did we even really win World War II if that happened? If we if we took the the brightest minds, the top military leaders of the Third Reich, and brought them here and they basically got into positions of power and influenced our government and created intelligence agencies which they wanted to replicate in Nazi Germany.

We are living present day of what they wanted to accomplish back in the ' 40s. I speak fluent German. I know a lot about German history and I know for a fact that this is like this Philip K. dick man in the high castle narrative, but like an undercover version or something where so what so if they infiltrated our highest ranks, which they sort of did, but do you think you you think they sort of maintained Nazi allegiances? Well, look at what happened with Ukraine and this is what people don't talk about. Look at them waving Nazi flags. A lot of the people that went out of Nazi

Germany went and occupied that area. There's Nazis here. I mean, look at some of the prisons and stuff like the Aryan gangs, but yes, there's there's societies that have Nazi influence in them. I can tell you for a fact. So what what Hitler wanted to achieve was a militarized police force. What do we have now? A militarized police force. We have basically uh healthc care, some free healthcare. They have some sort of system for education, which is what they wanted to do. They wanted to basically put a ban on smoking a whole lot um because they wanted healthier people. And it was funny

because even as a Freemason, one of the things that Hitler despised was us as Freemasons because of the secrecy that we have and the way that we do rituals, which you know is nothing spectacular to an extent because it's just tradition. But one of the things that he liked was how we kept things very secret and very word of mouth, i.e. um what we call a pass and a grip. So a password and then a grip is obviously a handshake. depending on what um degree you are demonstrates what kind of grip you will give and then of course

there's some grips that you give in the public and there's grips that you give only behind the doors of a lodge no I mean yeah like Warner von Braonn Rudolph Hess himler all these guys were really interested in the cult everybody on that top level was because that's so part of this council of foreign relations was something that helped set up the CIA well do you think most of these people that were in the CI CFR at the time they were people who were read into the occult or participating themselves in some of these societies.

That's how they learned the secrecy in these programs was based off of these that know how to keep things compartmentalized. That should sound So they keep people segmented and then they basically being bring people under those segmented parts to basically stay in their lane. This is how you have different divisions and different things that people work on that basically integrate into a bigger picture. You're almost implying that there are like control systems that go deeper than just you know NDAs and this is your

very much so that is the truth and this has happened for thousands of years. This is no different. The only difference is is the people who exist today are taking the influence from the past and still implementing it. So when the next person steps in line, they get to do the same thing and basically keep it going the same way that it never changes. The only thing that changes is when you have people like Jake, for example, who come forward and expose what their personal experiences are and basically try to not necessarily shatter the secrecy, but they want

certain parts of the secrecy to be out so that way humanity can benefit. I don't have a problem with that. Yeah. What do you guys think is like because disclosure is in this very interesting place now where I feel like it's made kind of a quantum leap forward and then mainstream societ I mean a lot of this stuff came out around the inauguration. And if you look at like what's happening in the White House and with US aid and like Doge like most people are concerned with that and they don't give a [ __ ] about UFOs. And then you have UFO world

where they're like, we have a guy who came out who says he retrieved a craft firsthand and it's like they're on an island like from the rest of the rest of society doesn't there's some dark matter between them that's like undetectable. So where does disclosure go from here and is there like an aspirational, you know, good place for it to go Let me let me ask you something. So everybody understands how the government is astray these days, right? Yeah. So, you have all these moving parts and people don't know what they're doing or they do know what they're doing, but there's just so many different things that are um developing

within the government right now. Do you think realistically pulling these technologies from these black programs and putting them into the hands of people who don't know what the [ __ ] they're doing is a smart move? No. Not willy-nilly. Not like, you know, This is why amnesty and this is why this needs to get more transparent at least for a government side. Now, now some of the free energy tech we could benefit from, but as far as a craft or being able to fly, that can stay top secret and it can just be like, "Yeah, we know

nuclear weapons exist or thermonuclear weapons, we don't know how they work, but we know they exist." It could be the same way. Shouldn't that be the right analogy where it's like nuclear physics versus nuclear trade secrets? Correct. It's like obviously yeah we shouldn't let trade secret that but as far as the physics should be open to I can tell you personally that I don't think the government would even have any kind of first indication on how to manage these programs they're not going to know what to do with it if they're so and this is the problem to your face they're going to tell you they're all about the right motives or

or doing the right thing for this country but when push comes to shove and they don't want to do a [ __ ] thing about it they're going to put people oh it's my political career I give a [ __ ] more about well Congress has an 11% approval rating. I've always thought one of the most overrated uh versions of disclosure is having congressional oversight over the like I think a lot of these guys don't know their asses from their foreheads. As far as the public understanding basic ontological truths and benefiting to the extent they can from the the the tech. I mean that feels like a clear net good.

What you and I have as an expectation for the government is much different than what they have for themselves. Their expectations is I get to go home every night. I get to check my bank account and make sure I'm getting paid the same funding I got last year or if not more. And that their reputation still sticks around as I'm senator so and so and I'm this cool person because I'm in government. Yeah. I mean it's it's it's an oligarchy. It's it's special interests run the entire thing. These people are not powerful at all. This group that has this kind of stuff is way more powerful than them. So these guys on Capitol Hill that think that

their [ __ ] doesn't stink. I hate to break it to you guys. You guys are Do you not that? But so you think that the UFO legacy programs are almost like breakaway power thiefs that have leverage over the federal government? Oh yeah, they have more money than our government. Are you kidding? So you think like like with this do these UFO programs automatically roll up to Trump or are they their own thing? They're going to be their own thing because here's the thing, Trump's not going to know what to do with this cuz most of the people on Capitol Hill don't believe in this [ __ ] and some of the ones that do are very far and few

between. But Trump Trump has to know that this stuff is real. You don't think so? But his son on his podcast interviewed Ross Colart before Ross Colthart broke the Jake story. And I I I'm just reading between the lines and Let me let me let me break it to you. I've had meetings with some of these people in Trump's administration. And I can I can back it up because I got photographic evidence and I participate in a lot of meetings in Washington. Yeah. Because of what I'm able to provide them as far as little bit of advice, but a little bit more like

personal experience. Okay. To you, they will say it. Yes, they're interested into it, but when their political careers come up because now they're going to be thought of as nut cases. Every single person in this field is thought of that it's the stigma until you have somebody like Trump for He's more fixated on things that are short-term. Yeah, that can be a long-term thing which is great. I'm not bashing that. I think his approach of trying to clean up the government is great because what happens

is now they start seeing funding go in different directions that's not known. When that's apparent, that is going to basically say where is this money going to? Then you're going to have people like Jake knocking on the door saying, "I know exactly where that's going to and it's going to these programs." Well, what are these programs centered around? Well, NHI technology or reverse engineered and all this kind of stuff. So, it could segue into it. What's going to happen with this closure is not an overnight thing. This is going to be something that has to take a few

generations for people to understand because this is unfortunately how fast humans learn. you know a lot about the money flow of like all this stuff. You want to just talk about that a little? Yeah, but I got to say I fully agree with you guys that disclosure probably won't come from the Congress. I mean, look at uh Kirk McConnell, the staffer for Senator Gillibrand on the Senate Armed Services Committee. Since 2017, he has been pulling witnesses, talking to witnesses, and briefing his senator. He's great. He knows a lot. I know. I know. I talked to him in a

He's Okay. You So, you spoke to I spoke to him directly firsthand. Yeah. So, he's a good guy. Yeah, because at Soul he was asked by a couple individuals if he had heard of a blue-on-blue firefight team with a locky brushal team and about you know transporting humans in reverse engineered craft and he said both he had heard yes. So definitely you have talked to him so that sounds like maybe the craft is Well I yeah but as far as the money I I mean I agree that this is probably like a black programs are breakaway projects. I think most of these operate in DoD

laboratories or various MRTFBs, major range test facility bases. A lot of these have underground locations. This cash flow is generally uh generally moved through FFRDC's, federally funded research and development centers or URC's, university affiliated research centers. And this is so the federal government can in in those who know when the federal government can engage with legacy programs operations through these FFRDC's and URC's to make joint USG and contractor programs the block programs as we think of them.

Give us a few big examples of FF fdc. MITER rand center for naval analyses the IDA institute for defense analysis. How much money do these organizations all get tons and there's something called crystal city? Do we have a sense of like cuz like Yeah. Yeah. What's Crystal City? Sorry. Crystal City is a location just south of the Pentagon in Washington DC. That is where pretty much all of the biggest defense contractors are. It's in Arlington, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You have the Aerospace Corporation, you have the IDA, you have

the CNA, the Center for Center for Naval Analyses. And I really think the amount of money that's moved can't really be tracked because I myself have talked to witnesses who have seen cash moved like physical bales of cash taken to Most of the transactions are in cash. And this is something that most even people I've talked to have talked about that that's how they do things. Everything's self-funded in that regard, right? So if you have a program that you can benefit off of siphoning funds from the from the government, right? tax

that get allocated to that, but then you don't have to tell people what you're specifically doing, you just say, "Yeah, it's going to this program and we need 60 billion for it, So then when it gets to a point of them actually generating own revenue by themselves, they still need that lifeline of government funding because then it gives them a purpose because the government gives them the legal authority to do so. If the government was like, "You know what? We know what you guys are doing. It's [ __ ] We're going to go ahead and cut off funding." Well, they're still making money, but that's the thing that they'll discover is how they're making money, which is not an illegal sense, right? Because

they're still kept from the government. You're using tax dollars to generate programs which then can generate revenue which then enrich certain people's lives or they use it to re replicate technologies, if you will. So, essentially, if they figure out everything they're doing is illegal, then guess what? They're not going to risk it. So, what are they going to do? They're going to continue lying to everybody on Capitol Hill and because some of these senators and politicians are also read into this, but at least

maybe they're getting, hey, I'll give you a couple million for a campaign. Just don't look over here. It happens all the time. Yeah. Well, you have, you know, um, Congressman Mike Turner who represents the the district that Wright Pat is in, right Patterson, which is the center of all UFO lore and reverse engineering. back to Roswell and I believe his top three donors are Boeing, Locked and maybe I'm getting the third one, Rathon, you know, some Rathon. It is Rathon and he uh basically uh was

helped nyx uh the eminent domain clause, you know, as part of the I'll explain why that happened. All Now, everybody thinks, oh [ __ ] that sucked and you know that we didn't get anything out of that. Yes, we did. We understand that it's always going to be one step forward, two steps back. We're going to figure out what's going on and who's a part of what. When that was gutted and who opposed it was basically saying, "Hey, we're the ones that oppose it. Now

time at the Air Force, he went on to work for the Pentagon for the research, development, test, and evaluation panel chain for the Air Force. It was here during the span of I think 2012 to 2016 he spoke of $34 billion and $40 billion being scrubbed from the books for non-transfer of authority funds for the Air Force in respected years. I'm not sure which year is the 34 and which year is the 40, but just wiped off the books. And then but then you simultaneous to all of this, you know, if we're talking about octagonal shaped crafts that can use

electrogravitics, it's like China and Russia are like eating our lunch as far as I know on hypersonics. and so so like how do you kind of I will I will say this and hypersonics are associated with the same contractors that are associated with this issue. Yeah. So, it's always this question of like, have we actually just stagnated and this is just like some softening of the en enemy sort of, you know, narrative or whatever. Yeah. I had an interesting meeting on Capitol Hill and one of the things that was brought up by a particular gentleman who

knows of what's going on, I'm not going to say who he is. Mhm. What he was able to figure out and um provide us during that meeting was Russia and China have their own retrieval teams of non-human intelligence and they have their own technologies reverse engineered and they're pretty much on par with what we're doing. And it's to the point to where we as in the United States assets that deal with this have gentleman's agreement with both countries to say if we target and shoot down NHI whatever team gets there first gets the prize.

whatever team gets their second has to wave off. And this person's a pretty pretty high place in the government. So, the fact that that was established because that was a theory. I was like, we can't be the only people that have this in this country. But it's not even just these countries. It's this organization which is transnational. They just happen to exist in other countries that are doing the same stuff we do here. Do you think that this could bring us together? I mean, you have rumors of like, you know, um Reagan and Gorbachev. This isn't even a rumor. Gorbachev,

Mikuel Gorbachev, says in an interview with Charlie Rose that he was sitting with Reagan at some like UN event or something and Reagan, you know, whispers over in his ear, he says, "If the United were attacked by someone from outer would you help us?" I said, "No doubt about it." He said, "We do." And so like do you think there's any hope of this not being

this sort of game theory dynamic but actually sort of you know creating kind of peace between the nations or is that just totally naive? I think I think the only way that we're going to get full disclosure is if we are peaceful to each other. I think if everybody puts their [ __ ] swords down and understands that we have a bigger problem to deal with here and it's bigger than ourselves. This is the only way we're going to gain ground. M the problem with this this field if you want to call UFOs or a community right I don't even consider my part me a part of it I'm just somebody who saw something [ __ ] crazy and here you go so there's

so much division there's so many factions with this where everybody thinks that oh this person's right this person's wrong or this doesn't make sense or this makes sense if everybody was to understand that we're all trying to do the same thing and we all group we could get so much further along with this but everybody's like oh I hate this person because to this or I heard this about this person so you know he doesn't contribute anything. [snorts] We have to be uniting together to make this happen. And it's the problem. I don't think it will ever happen unless everybody puts their damn swords down.

Yeah. The quote unquote UFO community, which I say I think it's so cringeworthy, but it's like it's it's the it's the most like it's like a reality TV show. It's just this weird. I try to stay out of all of it, but it's it's so bizarre. I don't even pay attention to it because it's just, you know what, I got more important [ __ ] to deal with, such as either having these meetings or trying to gain ground on That's more my focus. I don't give a [ __ ] what other people say in this community. It's just like you you guys, they can criticize people

so easy. But if they were ever called to go on Capitol Hill to like talk, they would never do it. None of them would. Do you feel like people have ever tried to co-opt you given your story? Because I mean you you signed something basically with this Air Force, you know, lieutenant colonel where it's like your life is under the threat if you say Well, now that they've passed these laws, I mean, that doesn't apply. I mean, you know that I have had some blowback. You know, I've had I've had harassment. I haven't had direct threats that I'm aware of, but other people have

heard things, but I can't confirm that. But one of the instances, so when I testified to Arrow in April of 2023, After that trip, I started having these hover over my house or, you know, my dad's residence for example or over my What sort of helicopters? Uh, some of them most of the time are Blackhawks. And then there's one particular um CH47 um which is a dual rotor helicopter. It's army variant that um doesn't matter where I'm at in the city. If I move to a

different area, it pops up there. Mhm. And this has been and it's it's weird because you can I have flight radar 24 where I can track these because this is you know I had referenced this to Jake several almost several years ago explaining that this is what kind of harassment there's other people in the government as well that were having harassment like that happen to them too and partially I think that's why there's why we can't rely on government to do disclosure because once they figure out what they're up against they're not going to do that

something that has much more money than them has their own private military has their own assets. They're more cutting edge than compared to what we've got. I mean, but it's a symbiotic relationship because we need these contracting companies to help build stuff for our defense programs, which the government needs because this is what helps us keep as a superpower in this country, but it also curbs terrorism. It curbs wars that we could have in any other part of the We need them. So, if we're to gut them from what they do best, then that basically weakens us as well because we

need these companies to come up with our next, you know, um, generation 7 fighter jet whenever that comes out or a new, you know, tank or new, um, medical systems for military or whatever it is that they do. So, gutting them would be something that would basically So, you think they're actually producing a lot of innovation because like society at large is stagnated when it comes to Society has, but look at the military. It's much more advanced because that's their focus. That's the war machine. So if they don't have a war, but it also goes back and forth like you

hear these stories of like, you know, nukes operating off floppy discs. You know the story in I think it was like 2017 or something. Yeah, I had talked about that and it was it was something I found out personally was that they keep it archaic because it's harder to hack. You can't h if you have a signal that goes up topside. So that's intentional. That's intentional. NORAD operating offline so no systems Yep. That's why they do it that way. And some of these black sites work the same So there, you know, what everybody has to understand is black sites operate independently. Yes, they get funding from the government with some research

and development programs that they do, but they operate entirely by themselves. It's almost like its own country. They got their own people to manage these things like these refugees they get from these other countries that they scream for P3 that don't cut make the cut. Well, they have them as janitors, cooks, you know, people to maintain these facilities. For every single operator, you're going to have 20 personnel that are going to basically support that operator that are in these facilities, if that makes sense, such as a medical officer, whatever that is, and admin people, payroll, if you

So, there are people essentially missing all over the world. Are they are these people willfully signing up to be psionic assets or in certain cases, are they being rounded up? Well, they're they're signing up to my understanding. This is what I've been you're in a country where you don't get that much money and you don't get to do anything cutting edge, but you have a skill set that could be used in a it could be in a positive way. Granted, we're not in these programs, so we don't understand really what they do, but if

they were to do something that's fun that they put their skills to, they're going to do it. You know, anybody who's got the skills to do that. And so you're saying their family might be taken along to work as logistics and maintenance and so forth potentially, but I can't confirm that because, you know, I haven't I haven't talked to a P3 refugee from a you know, that was Oh, yeah. My family came with. No, I've never heard of that. But then again, I would say it's entirely possible. If they're going to take the people that are essentially going to make them money or give them

technologies, then why not? Are there gifted and talented education programs in the US that work as feeders to legacy UFO program that I cannot I don't know that personally. I have heard it from multiple people. I know people who claim that they were a part of that but I can't personally talk about it because I have no idea. Do you know anything about this? I only know one individual and that is Yeah. who has talked about, you know, working on on programs and being in gay

programs as a kid. Yep. He's the only individual I know and it was interesting to see him come forward with Skywatchers. So, I always knew him by his previous suited in Martin. So, I'm interested to hear more from him about that. What do you guys think about Arrow generally? This is the all domain anomalies resolution office. Yes, I I understand it was a front for basically sifting through information and plucking people to figure out what they know and then either trying to shut them up or just publicly dismissed the person, you know, like they did with anybody that testified. You know, they they

misconstrued all our stories. What I understand now is that the director there is really hellbent on getting the right information. Now so do you like the this is John Kuzowski who's formerly of the National Security Administration and and or National Security Agency, sorry. And before that, you had Kirk Patrick who like I don't know one person in this world who who likes you know I think most people think he was anybody who's associate with them of course are going to like them because I'm pretty sure they're getting paid the same. But right,

you know that's just what it is. They're going to they're going to stick up for their own guy. But mo so most people think I think Kirk Patrick's sort of a bad faith actor and then Kazowski the verdict's still out but you think maybe there's hope or from what I've heard from people dealing with him on a personal level that he's for the right issue. Was yet to be seen but we will see. I mean like I've said and Jake Steven said the same thing. You'll know them by their deeds and if they start doing good things then that could potentially bring us something to good. But if they start doing things that we're not approving or, you know, that is not going to help with what we're trying to do, then I

would say it's definitely somebody that we need to consider not even involving. You know, I think the hardest part is figuring out who's going to be on the right side of history with this. Yeah. What do you like? How do you position yourself now to be on the right side of history? I mean clearly just by coming out in my opinion I think you're you're showing courage and on the right side of history but on a go forward basis now that you're kind of implicated in the topic how do you position I mean if I had a job around this where

I could contribute and and bring the answers and basically provide to the public that this is real I would enjoy that it's much more interesting business-wise is always interesting but it es and flows and the fact is is you know when I have these meetings in DC and with important people. It kind of it always fuels my fire because I get to contribute in a sense to actually help people understand what they should be looking for. And so when I get invited

to partake in those meetings and I was like, okay, this is this is cool. I get to meet very interesting people. I get to meet people I never think I'd ever meet because most people see these people on TV and it's like, oh yeah, there's this person here, you know, he's a part of the administration or he's doing this. So I think if I can contribute in a sense that's positive, I think that that's that's what I can die leaving this earth knowing that I I tried to help get us somewhere better because I all I want from this is just for us to be

better, for us to have these technologies that we could live a lot longer, we can live happier, we can be healthier, and we can be more knowledgeable and can be at a higher consciousness. Do you think that these technologies will ever come out and you know we'll get some of them are there's room there's there's some rumors and speculation from some reputable people I know that that's what they're trying to do and it's more medical based technologies like what so it's a scalar technologies right so this device essentially all they do

is if you're not there presently they use a photo of you and it has to just be like a symmetrical photo of your face and they did this with my dog for example because he would like I said he was diagnosed with some sort of bladder mass that they thought was cancerous and then uh this scan it hits the body with around 886,000 different frequencies to up to 1.2 two million frequencies. And then what it does is when one of those frequencies registers or pings, that specific ping tells you that you have this specific element. With this specific element, it

also talks about specific frequencies that can terminate that specific cell. And it can do this remotely via a photo. Correct. Now, the caveat to this is that they could kill people the same way by manifesting harmful cells like fasting cancers. Does that sound familiar? Have you ever heard of whistleblowers or people trying to come forward that got hit with this kind of [ __ ] to get them to shut up or it kills them pretty You might know better than me. James Allen, the documentarian of Mark McCandalish and the Flex Liner story. He was diagnosed and dead of an aggressive

form of cancer about 3 weeks. Do you think that that was caused by some sort of remote scalar weapon? I'm more interested in the fact his autopsy said he was poisoned with heavy metals. So that almost sounds more prosa like more like you know conventional or something but have you so you've heard you know specifics of people having hit been hit with cancer. Yeah but I can't talk about the people I'm associated with on that cuz I don't want to Okay, that's scary. It is scary. This is the problem is that bullets and stuff like that are archaic. They don't need that [ __ ] These weapon

systems that they have that they can turn into weapon systems with scalar manifesting growth and cancers into your or they could [ __ ] with your eyesight. it could [ __ ] with your brain. You know, that's very real stuff. So, when they are able to use this technology in a good sense, there's always going to be somebody who's bad who wants to use the same technology in a harmful way, which is why it's not public. And um you know, it's not like these people that use it that I know that have used it on me are like greedy people, but they cure a lot

of people. And sometimes they cure I've seen. So you think that technology is going to be these scalar wave healing there may yeah well yeah there's always a a flip side to everything in order to have good you have to have bad this is what people don't understand nothing's always ever good and nothing's always ever select tech is dual use correct AI car right I need to go to the store do this some guy looks at it as like no I'm going to go run over 30 people yeah yeah nuclear free energy or nuclear bomb or you know it's the same thing with this technology

you know it just depends on what the person wants to utilize it with. A knife that can cut food for you so you don't choke to death is the same person who's going to go think ill of it and go stab a bunch of people. It is interesting when you say like the remote there's this guy Joe Despensza that does like you know selfactualization work and it's always like you know you have these like remote healings and like people concentrate on a photo and stuff and I you know I I don't know what to make of it. I I don't know what to make it of either, but I know this device was pretty um crazy, but it's great.

And you know, so the type of frequencies and when So here's the thing that's cool about it. So the frequencies that it pings and then it suggests, you know, because it goes down to your DNA, but then it goes all the way to the atoms and molecules that make up your And then it can also detect things that haven't manifested yet, and it can curb that. So, uh, for me, for example, I didn't tell them my medical history, but when they did the scan on me, they found out everything about me that I never told them

And I didn't even know this about myself. My dad, you know, I was born with very thick blood and so I needed a transfusion when I was born. My dad's like, "Yeah, you've had thick blood." That showed up on the scanner. You showed me because the reason why I showed up because the way that my arteries and veins are working harder because of having to pump the thick blood and but you then you talked about it with your dad. You didn't even know I didn't even know. He told me, he's like, "Yeah, well, you know, I I told him, I said, "Well, they said that I thick blood." And he says, "Yeah, you've had thick blood since you're a baby. You had to get a transfusion, and that's the reason why my arteries and veins and

capillaries have there definitely like quacky versions of this that exist commercially. Right now, there is, and it's called energy enhancement systems, which are, you know, so you stand by these screens or sit by these screens and the frequencies they hit you with are supposed to be of healing frequencies. I have yet to do that. I can't say if it's legitimate. It may be. There's people I know that that have had that done. But with this particular device is it's something that I I really hope to God that this comes out because

you I mean you're saying there is a plan to exfiltrate it for commercial use. Yes, there is. Then you're getting into something that's like alternative medicine is what this will fall under because Western medicine is so heavily involved with FDA and having to do things regarding that and with what they said. Wouldn't this theoretically take out big That's why they don't want to out. Could you live forever on this thing? Are there are there people in the UFO program going to live to 300? I mean the person that one of the people that exists today and I don't know who they are. They're probably on the first already part of living forever in our

world right now because of what the technologies that is a possibility. Well, I would I would love to understand this stuff better because it seems so primmaaccia absurd. But I also do, you know, I'm interested in this stuff and there's um you know, you can turn molecular mass into frequency. That's not at all woowoo to say in physics or biology and every you know, if you if you did take almost like a bank of like this organ should be operating at, you know, whatever optimum frequency, you could probably tune it. There's a field called simatic, correct? Correct.

with vibrations you could you can create, you know, sand structures in like these vibrational plates. And so you could theoretically and we know that um cellular communication occurs via voltage gated ion channels. And so you can the the the field there is a bioelectric field to every body. These are all sort of facts. And so theoretically with acoustics and electromagnetic fields, you could affect bodily functions. How you do that in a precise way to heal people that feels very hard for me to understand.

Well, it's it's hard for me to understand because again, like I said, I was only exposed to this. So, the first scan took 12 12 and a half hours. I was in this chair and they were sitting there working like literally And you're sure this isn't really good counterintel like the subway order. No, this is [laughter] not a good counter intel. This was something that this was something that I that I was that was used on me in a sense to one build trust with this particular person, but also to understand that this is something that is real and it's something that can benefit humanity. I'm more interested in

that. I don't, you know, yeah, the UFO stuff's cool cuz they fly. The medical [ __ ] the stuff that we could also do with this technology is going to be far more advanced even with consciousness. I mean, that's more mind-blowing than just watching a craft fly. I'm sorry, but you know, people are so enamored with those, but it's like that's the boring part of it. Jake's even said the same thing. Yeah, totally. Yeah. You know, so when I So, the first treatment was 12 hours of hook to this. So, I fell asleep. They gave me uh stem cells in the same process and exoomes, which was good. They also took my blood because it was

thick. So, they put under a microscope to see how thick it is. It's pretty thick, but you know, being on hormone replacement therapy and having to do blood dumps and stuff like that is what I keep up with it. Plus, they told me to take baby aspirin, one 81 milligrams or micrograms, if you want to call it that, daily to help with it. So, it I didn't even know that. It said I had osteoporosis. Well, I don't drink milk. I hate milk. Milk I mean, I like stuff that has milk like cheese and ice cream, but it hates me. So, yeah, some days it's worth it, some days it's not.

So, um it knew that about me. There's a bunch of other things that it said, you know, that it was able to detect. And you've never seen the machine. I have never seen a machine. This was last year, late February, early March. But you felt it it it healed your dog. And did it heal something with you, too? It healed something with me. I had parasites. I didn't even know because I started getting like very bad heartburn. My stomach like I was my appetite was [ __ ] I could not eat. And I was wondering what it was. I was like, "Okay, well, I need to take this medication." And it didn't make it any

better. Then when I got the scan and it got rid of the parasites cuz it listed three different types. And you felt better immediately. I felt like I was like 20 years old again. And this was happened over a week. So, so part of it, so 12 hours of the first one, roughly 6 hours the second one, and then the destruction sequence that they do using these frequencies to target the parasites and to kill off the bad cells took about 4 and 1/2 hours. They what they also do on this device is they program purified water because water in itself if you look through ancient history also is a conductor for the body

just like anything else in our life. So, they programmed this water and then basically you ingest it twice a day, morning and evening. There's [snorts] no medications. They didn't have to cut me open. They didn't have to do any of that. And everything that they scanned me of was resolved. Can I speak to these people? I can get you in touch with these people. Yes. [laughter] It's only word of mouth. So, don't put their information out if they've agreed to it. But they'll ask you questions and they will basically, you know, they want to know who you are first to kind of which if you you're Jesse Michaels, everybody knows who you are in this and I'm sure they do too.

So, um, with my dog, like I said, they, my dad took him to the vet because I gave him to my dad when I was competing because I had a full-time job and then having to train for a show, which took about four to five hours a day on top of a 12, 13 hour job, which is not fair to my dog. So, I gave him to my dad. So, my dad took him to the vet and they said that he had a bladder mass and it was looking like cancer. So, they're like, "Yeah, you got to go to a a um oncologist to figure out what it is." He didn't want to do that. So I told my dad, I said, "Hey, this is going to sound [ __ ] nuts, but hear me out." So

I explained a little bit to him, at least what he understands, and um so I got in touch with these people and said, "Hey, dog's not looking too good. Can you guys do anything with animals?" And they said, "Yes, they can do cats and dogs right now and humans." They're trying to do other, you know, like bovine, for example, or horses is something they may be able to do at some point because they're always refining. And I don't know how they do this. So they told me to take a my I told my dad send me a picture of his face, you know, as of a re very recent photo. So I did

that. My dad had told me within a matter of weeks because I started giving him this other stuff that they have which is like a blue is like a nano blue for example. So what this blue stuff does is that you ingest it and it starts to basically kill all the bacteria and viruses inside your body. So it makes it easier for this treatment to take a to take effect as well. So I told my dad, I said, "Yeah, give him one ml in the morning every day and then they're going to do the treatments." So they did about four or five treatments on him. Said he wasn't looking too good, but then they started

doing the more treatments and with this blue and he was when he would urinate it was very small because his bladder was taken out. Now he'll sit there forever just trying to get everything out. Wow. There was no surgery involved. Like I said, he had cloudy eyes because he's getting old. They got rid of all that. He's like a puppy again. And his appetite is still the same. You know, he was some days he wasn't feeling too good where he was didn't want to move. I

mean, cuz he's 13, 14 years old almost. Now it's a different story in knowing that this exists. What my my grand my grandma was basically like my mom to me and she raised me. She ended up dying from pancreatic cancer. there was a stage where when they found it, if I could if I would have known about this, then somebody like her I could have had helped and they could have done something about it. Now granted, talking about curing cancer is very iffy and it also depends on obviously what

side of the fence you sit on. I know from my experience with what it did for me and what it did for my dog completely cured us. M I do not doubt that this would be something that could help people that are literally losing their lives over And the reason for not putting this out super publicly like right now is the dual use implications. Dual use, but also the FDA. If this technology exists and with these people, it could really be profound and change this. But you have big pharma that's more interested in getting this money.

And that's the thing that upset me with COVID because obviously per diagnosis these doctors are getting somewhere from 16 to 30 grand per [ __ ] diagnosis. It's like yeah. So of course there's incentive for you guys to literally mark everything is co. So anybody in the medical industry if you're going to do the right thing start thinking ethics. This is the problem with this world today. It's because of greed. It's because of the incentives that people get and it's because people want to be selfish about it. And the overlap in financial interest between big pharma and big food is extremely high. Well, that's why I want RFK to do what

he's doing. I have the same. Well, I think the FDA like, you know, governs both food and And on the food side, it's extremely lazy, fair, and loose. And so, like, you have all these like chemicals that are allowed in our food, things like, you know, glyphosate, you know, which are probably autoimmune or cancer-causing. They're like, it's like glyphosate is very close to Agent Orange. It's just horrible for you. And we have all these things that are allowed in the US that are banned in Europe. And then so on that side, on the food side, we're very lazy fair. And then on

the drug side, once people get extremely sick and the big pharma companies are profiting off of, you know, these biochemical solutions for, you know, whatever their ailments are, it's extremely hard to get new drug innovation or anything passed through the FDA. So like this side is then super strict when you should be throwing the Hail Mary because you're already really sick. the the the restriction should be very wide. It should actually be like let's try let's try magnetic whatever you know interference you know sound healing whatever but then so you can't pass anything by the FDA here and then

here everything goes to make you sick so it's just completely perverse well and that's the thing so if they're working in hand in hand trying to make more patients because guess what a patient cured is a patient lost yeah totally they lose money off that so of course they want to keep people sick do do you guys think more whistleblowers will come out and the consensus will shift on this topic because it feels like even shows like like podcasts like you know Joe Rogan's which traditionally have covered this stuff I think when it was less uh sort of like like less activity was

involved and it was like easier to make sense of cuz there were a few kind of hot button stories that you either had you know an opinion on for or against those like Bob Lazar or whatever and now they're like I think extremely confused they feel like the zone is being flooded and like my basic understanding based on the way he speaks on his podcast is He's kind of like [laughter] suspicious of like the whole Well, he should he should be. I'm not saying like, you know, every whistleblower has got to be trusted. I mean, there's people out there trying to get rich. I get it. They're trying to find a livelihood. If so be it, you're going to be found out. Yeah. But at the same time, yes, be skeptical.

What the thing with it, too, is that these people really need to put egos aside. This is part of the reason why we have this problem. Everybody on Capitol Hill thinks they know what the [ __ ] going on because they're senator so and so, or they're the president or their secretary of defense or all this. You guys are removable ponds that are going to have an expiration of your terms and you're going to go living your normal life and some other person is going to step into your point. They're going to do the same thing you're doing. So, it's really just interchangeable people. This is the reason why secrecy exists because they would rather have people who are

permanently involved stay at that level instead of just having somebody interchanged, right? two or two or three terms you're out or you know as a president you're not going to know much because you're going to literally just go out and do whatever you're going to do after becoming the president. So who is if there's this sort of shadow government visa v these UFO programs who's the president of that or is it somebody that nobody knows and is somebody that has a hell of a bankroll that nobody could ever understand or And they probably more than likely do not live in this country because if they were smart they'd be somewhere else.

Do you have any about it? He hypothesized somebody like Dick Cheney. Yeah. Well, he but he would be top of the pyramid. Not Yeah. No, but Dick Cheney would be the representative of like something else. It's It's going to be somebody that nobody knows. That's never Nobody knows their face. Nobody knows they even exist. It won't be a politician. I I would wager that maybe 10 to 20 total people in the world have the full picture of you legacy program and they got more funding than everybody they could ever imagine. I I also understand the Joe Rogan orientation

towards it because it's so the whole the UAP thing is so weird. Yeah. You have on the one hand like you know this sort of like Tim Taylor NASA like the like all this sort of like strange you know summoning stuff around you know UFO or sorry around rocketry like in the history of rocketry and then you have this other stuff of like you know uh aerospace black aerospace and like saucers and hangers and like nuts and bolts propulsion updates that sort of and and then you have like what are the NHI themselves and like the ontology

there and kind of the metaphysical dimension of like Jacqu Valet and Diana of like what we're dealing with and is it spiritual and it's just extremely Yep. [laughter] Well, and I mean it it could it be intentionally provided as confused, you know, or to bring confusion. So, I mean that's kind of where we have to kind of be very careful to navigate that. You only know what you're exposed to. And then again, whoever is exposed to something could be fed misinformation to say, "Hey, go ahead and say this. Thank god I didn't have that problem." you know, there was suspicion when Jake

approached me that I was like, "Okay, maybe this might be the case." But then he's very he's been very transparent about his role, you know, being a red team asset pretty much to try to bump whistleblowers and figure out who's got what and and you are you're sure, you know, I've I've got pretty good impression from him in my interview, but you're sure he's not still, you know, red teaming? Like I as there's this moment in my interview where I was like, "How do we know you're not red teaming us right now?" Well, you don't you don't know that. I'm You really don't. That was an honest answer. Yeah. [laughter] You don't know that.

So, I And all I can do I expect to get asked that a lot is like, you know, I'll paraphrase a book from Matthew. I think it is like you will know me by my Well, and there's what does he really have to benefit from red teaming if he's He's out there. Mhm. I mean, and then not only that, but he Well, if I'm playing devil's advocate, it could be, you know, controlled opposition or, you know, for what though? I don't because he's trying to prove the exist because he's trying to prove this.

This is real. That's his whole thing. And he's helping he's trying to get government institutions to help with Somebody's not going to be in a disinformation campaign just to have government involved and then just to, you know, everybody's trying to prove it's real. So is Jake, which we all know it's real, but even the the consensus of the planet, I think if everybody understood it was real, then they'd actually be the first hurdle they can get over. What do you guys think? And you know, I think that's a very noble aim. What do you guys think is like the disclosure moment? Like because you think you you

would think that a guy saying I retrieved a UFO would be the disclosure moment but that you know I think a lot of people like my my video on this guy only has like a half million views and there are like 350 million people in this country and so you know well it again it depends on what side of the fence you sit on. Some people need disclosure to be something that they have to witness Nothing wrong with that. Mhm. There's some people that Yes. They can take tidbit information that I've provided to say, "Okay, yeah, reverse engineered or something." For me, that was disclosure. Yeah. If I saw that thing humming,

that was that'd be it. Yeah. Yeah. I would have trouble keeping a day job. Like you have a you know, a couple businesses like I'd be like I'd turn into a fiend like trying to figure out. That's why sometimes business gets [ __ ] boring and then you're like, "Man, I wonder what's going on over Start trying to research into stuff. I'd spend my the rest of my life trying to take a ride on that thing. I mean, if that ever happens, I'll be like, "Jesse, hit me up. Don't say anything, [laughter] but let's be me at this point." I mean, [clears throat] you know, it it's it's up in the air what our future

holds. It's it's up to us to create the That's really what it is. Do we want to continue living on the past, going the same kind of habits and rituals that people do, or do we actually want to evolve and actually be a better person at the end of the day and help change the world? Disclosure is going to help change the world and hopefully for the better. or not something that's going to be taken astray and weaponized somehow like it already has been. Yep. Yep. Is there something about So it's the people with psionic assets when Jake even said this on my show where

it's like, you know, their diets, their uh sense of community. They're being tapped into sort of, you know, they don't live in this kind of materialist reductionist framework where like this stuff is actually more kind of second nature to them. Is there something about the land itself? Like you think about places like um you know Skinwalker Ranch, Tacoma, Washington, Sedona. People just report like weird stuff. Well, some of the some of the first E5 stuff I've I've seen was in Sedona with Greer's team. We were with Demi Lovado.

And uh her her That's an absurd sentence. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I get I get Demi Lovado to me to me. She was cool to me, you know. She was cool to me, but you know, she's she's had her troubles just like we all have. So you can't really hold her accountable for that. That's her own thing. But you know, it was it was cool to talk to her and see what she's she believes on this subject, you know, and this this reaches everybody, you know what I mean? So it's all walks of life coming up to a certain point to understand that we're acknowledging something greater than ourselves,

you know. So seeing the stuff that happened out there was pretty wild. What did happen out there with saw orbs Steven? [laughter] So, we we went to this I'm not going to name it because you know, just in case she ever goes back here, I don't want people trying to like You know, I'm from what I understand, she comes here routinely. But it was a it was a cool place. In Sedona. And uh so we end up setting up a circle in two different parts. One was off-rid, one was at this place. And

uh so the first night we were there in in this off-grid place just off of a trail. Nobody knew we were the [ __ ] out there. And there was this is like 2:00 in the [ __ ] morning, right? So I'm sitting there [ __ ] falling asleep. Um, you know, and I'm having to, you know, drive everybody and at least, you know, unless Greer was doing that, but most of the time I was driving us. So we're sitting there and the way that we are seated is everybody has a part of the sky that they're looking at or the surrounding area. So where I'm facing, I

see Greer, Demiy's friend is over here. Demiy's like right her here. Um Paula was she's some she's somebody in the UFO field or something. She's some author. I can't remember her name. Paula Yeah. Paula Harris. She wrote Trinity book with Valle Italian. She was there too. She's a good she's a good lady. She actually lives where kind of close to where we live. she was there. Demiy's fiance was there and then Demiy's good friend was there. And then Demiy's mom was there who's very sweet and very cool. She's very

short but she's a good lady. Both of you know. So, we're sitting there, we're seeing orbs, we're seeing, you know, discshaped craft appear in and out. gold color. And then I don't know what the hell this was. So, I was sitting there and then, you know, obviously we're way apart from each other. Something just [ __ ] slaps me on the side of the on my side very hard. It wasn't a [ __ ] animal. It wasn't any of them because I'm like observing everything and they're saying shit's

happening behind me and I'm like, "Okay, well, I can't see." But then I'm trying to say over here to see if there's anything coming on over here and something hit me really hard on the And you don't know what it was. I don't know what the [ __ ] it was. And was it Did it correlate with a UFO I don't Yeah, they were saying that there stuff was behind me and [ __ ] but then all of a sudden it sometimes just like hard. They were saying stuff was behind you. Like what was behind you? Orbs? orbs, shapes, blue and white color, stuff like And you just felt something not I just felt something literally just like this, like harder than that on my

side. And it [ __ ] jumped. I'm like, what the [ __ ] was that? Holy [ __ ] So, I don't know what it was. What do What do you say to the people that say Greer is like, I don't know, holographically like displaying stuff. Oh, if if that's the case, sign the [ __ ] up and pay the money because this guy I mean, he this is what he dedicates his life to. He gave up his medical career to do this kind of stuff. So, yes. Does he need to have provide a living? I'm pretty sure everybody watching the show, if they're interested in UFOs, they're not going to do it for free when they got bills to pay and the families to pay.

But is he is he faking any of these? He's not faking this [ __ ] at all. Okay. There's people say, "Oh, you know how many op-eds are against Greer publicly to, you know, say that this stuff isn't real that are a part of these programs trying to say it's not." Yeah. Interesting. With any other final things or what you want to add? Yeah. Well, you know, and it's just, you know, I want people to keep an open mind, but I want people to understand that, you know, yeah, whatever side of the field you're going to be on, just understand that we're trying to get something done here, and it's going to happen with or without everybody.

If they want to help and support and great. If not, stay the [ __ ] out of our way. We'll handle it ourselves like we've been doing. I don't think so. Okay, Michael, this is an honor, man. Appreciate you taking the time. This is a blast.