Exposing the CIA's Darkest Mind Control Secrets

Why would the government program American citizens to murder other American citizens? Well, that's the question. So, you have documented project called MK Ultra and other kind of variations of mind control, creating splits and multiple personalities, couriers and spies, manurian candidates, assassinate world leaders. They used whoever they could get their hands on, hypnotizing them, brain electrode implants, electric shock, creating the super spy. This

stuff is shocking. The US Army released a list of 120ish different drugs that had been used for mind control testing. 1,500 people times 120 different drugs. It's a lot of people, right? It's a lot of people. When you get into the documents, you find out this guy is connected to this guy, this guy's connected to that guy. It's this whole network. Lee Harvey Oswald, who's the supposed lone gunman, probably wasn't the lone gunman when it comes to assassinating JFK. Jack Ruby killed Lee Harvey

Oswald, so he probably was an MK Ultra patient before having shot Lee Harvey Oswald. He doesn't remember shooting somebody. Sir Han, Sir Han, to this day says that he has no recollection of having shot RFK. What do you remember about the shooting if you're willing to talk about that? I I was obviously I was there but I don't remember the exact moment. I don't remember pulling my gun. Then you have a guy like McVey who's an MK Ultra patient. Manson who's an MK

Ultra patient. These people are committing horrific acts. You think that my mind is like your mind but it isn't. This is really creepy. I wonder if the same thing happened with Epstein. The thing is it's not just some crazy conspiracy theory. It's actually possible. Can I give you my crazy Epstein MK Ultra theory? Oh, you'll be in trouble if you don't. Okay. Ignition sequence. How is this possible? Nothing too unusual about that. Their existence cannot longer be denied.

As you know, a lot of the guests I sit down with, whether they're physicists, intelligence officers, people who've worked inside black programs, are operating at a really impressive level mentally. Sometimes I feel like I'm a chimp talking to human beings. Often their work takes a toll. And a lot of them track their health obsessively. regular lab work, obscure biomarkers, often things that most people never look at. Meanwhile, last time I went to a primary care doctor, they ran maybe like eight biomarkers and they told me I was fine and sent me home. This massive difference between

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with code alchemy. Head to superpower.com and use code alchemy at checkout for $20 off your membership. After you sign up, they'll ask you how you heard about them. So, please make sure to mention American Alchemy to support the show. I'm here with Dr. Colin Ross, who blew my mind with a just a really kind of bombshell crazy book. It's called uh CIA Doctors. I brought you a copy, actually. Thank you. And uh Well, here's my copy. And um here's your other copy. Yeah. Amazing.

Well, thanks. I I I'd love a second. Um and I'd love to hand as many of these out as possible to as many people as as you know I can because as long as it's over a million, I'm good. Okay, perfect. Yeah, just give me an affiliate fee. Um, but I truly um this stuff is shocking. You have documented the kind of medical malpractice of a whole host of uh psychiatrists who are either officially or unofficially associated often with CIA and project called MK Ultra and a lot

of the derivatives and subcompartments and other kind of variations of that uh mind control largely. Um and it talks about uh dissociating personalities, creating splits in multiple personalities uh so that you can send couriers and spies, create manurian candidates, uh assassinate world leaders. It is mindblowing and it's jarring to say the least. Well, and the thing is so I'll give you background, personal background a little bit. So I grew up in Canada.

Uh medical school, psychiatry training, worked in Canada for a while and then moved here equals Texas in '91 to a and my specialty is multiple personality equals dissociative identity disorder. And so, uh, I was in a program there at a hospital up in Plano and two or three months in, one of the patients who had multiple personalities comes up with this little sheath of papers and all paranoid and scared and hands them to me and I don't want these to take these. And I look at them and I go,

"Hm, MKL first I've heard of that." That's how I got into it by this woman handing me this pile of papers. Otherwise, wasn't interested. Didn't know about it. I w I thought the search for the manurion candidate was some kind of movie or something but I wasn't really sure it and it is a movie. It's I think 1961 Frank Sinatra and it discusses the creation of this assassin essentially post Korean war that China you know Manuria is this northeastern part of China. So

it's and it's based on a book from the 50s. There you go. So fiction, Hollywood, entertaining, end of story. So what I did was I read a couple of books that existed. There was no published like mainstream journal type papers. And then I was down in uh Northern Virginia for a conference in 92. And I corresponded with the CIA, which was like pre- internet back in the era. And uh they gave me an address to come to to read the MK Ultra Papers. So I'm at the conference hotel. This

is just a crazy side story in itself. Uh walk out, get in a taxi, and it turns out the taxi driver is telling me his story of he was a police officer in Afghanistan before he moved to the United States. Wonder if this is a coincidence that this guy is driving me. And then he goes, "Would you like to go through the grounds of the Pentagon on the way?" Whoa, sure. Okay. Um, and then he says, "Well, what are you where are you going? What are you doing?" "Oh, I'm just going to meet with some people." Drops me off at this building that it's very nondescript. You can't tell what it is. And I

walk in there and I mean, civilian guy has nothing to do with the military. Uh, and there's a whole bunch of military guys in uniform. One sign says uh secure line DIA only. Another one is secure line CIA only. I walk up to the desk. Hi, I'm here to read some documents. And the guy gives me a look like, oh, here's one of these guys here. Sign in and the woman comes down uh after 10 minutes

maybe. Get in the little jammed elevator with a bunch of guys in uniform and bunch of guys who I don't know who they are. go up to fifth floor, seventh floor, whatever it was. Get off, walk down the corridor, and there's like a submarine door with she has to key code in. Then another door, and then we're in a small office and assign a piece of paper. walk over here through another one of those doors into a room where there there's a cart with all the 149 MK Ultra projects there and

15,000 pages of documents. Had to read them all u which took a while. Thank God you did all this um because it's a really comprehensive book and it it clearly touches kind of close to the metal as far as what actually transpired and and and what went on and uh if you really want to kind of understand what these psychiatrists were doing, how they were communicating with, you know, CIA, this book is great. So just real quick for the audience, you give a little context as to how you got into this topic. What's your day job? Uh psychiatrist. Okay. And you have no affiliation

with MK Ultra, I assume. Uhuh. Okay. Of course, people go, "Oh, yeah, that's what he says." But I'm just a civilian guy. Okay. Um, so I know lots about all these documented facts. Yeah. And I have this pile of documents, but I don't have any insider knowledge about stuff currently at all. Okay. Which is kind of disappointing in a way. Yeah. Well, the the trail goes dark in 1975 with the Church Commission where all this malfeasants, you know, in the CIA, not just mind control stuff

was investigated and there was this kind of large reform. Let's go back to the very beginning of uh cowboy intelligence interventionism in the human body. So, I want to talk about uh you know uh we're talking China 3000 BC. No, no. In at least in the American context. So, um let's talk about the Tuskegee experiment because that for people who are in their minds they're like how could the government ever do something like this? It's just seems so horrific

and beyond what they would ever do. I think this is a really good jumping off point and that's why there's a chapter in the book about Tuskegee. So, one of the skeptical things is you could never do all that stuff and keep it secret and if it was known, it would get shut down. So, Tuskegee, which is a town in the southern United States, um 1932, the the public health service was the organizing entity. Uh surgeon general signed off on it. All these top medical people were

aware. And I've got a one of the papers I copied is called side effects of syphilis in the male negro is the title of the paper. So g give people context on just high level what happened cuz it's so shocking. They recruited 400 black rural mostly illiterate guys who had syphilis and then prevented them from getting treatment all the way till it was shut down in 1972 cuz a reporter blew a whistle on it. So it was studying the effects of untreated syphilis and the astounding medical

discovery was people would get sick and die earlier. Yeah. Shocker. That's all they learned. Shocker. Uh pretty pretty pretty crazy. So you you have that obviously uh occurring. You have early radiation experiments. What you know, how does radiation interact with the physical body? It's all documented 100%. And there's all kinds of like on the edge things I've heard I suspect, but right now we're just 100% documented. So, uh, Clinton had a report in the late '9s on radiation

experiments, like pretty thick, couple inches thick. And in there, it describes a whole bunch of stuff. U including uh I think it was seven. HP7 was his name, which means human product 7. Mhm. This is guys they did radiation experiments on. So, and this is in one of the Harvard hospitals in Boston. He comes into the ER unconscious in a coma. They inject him with plutonium and he he dies without ever waking up. Not from the plutonium, just whatever happened with him. So,

they're just how does it go through his kidneys? How is it excreted? They're studying that. Jesus Christ. So, if the guy arrived in a coma, I'm guessing he didn't give informed consent, right? Okay. So, let's get to MK Ultra or or just mind control generally. When did the idea of mind control cross the minds of American leadership? What's documented is in the second world war the because people have been manipulating and controlling people forever, right? So just making it government organized sophisticated scientific doctors involved that's at least in

the second world war. So uh 1941 or two uh all the intelligence agencies which are kind of scattered all over the place in the US were brought under the umbrella of the office of strategic services which is the OSS and then the OSS was disbanded at the end of the war and then in 1947 the CIA was created and a lot of the OSS guys just moved over there. So um there's a guy named GH Esster Brooks who's on the he's a chapter in the book uh Colgate College upstate New York. He uh published a book

in 1943 on hypnotism and a paper in 1971 or two in a magazine describing creating the super spy. Uh, and I have copies of his uh, contract with the war department back in 43 or so. um him corresponding with MK Ultra top secret cleared contractors, inviting them to uh Colgate College, corresponding with them, co-publishing with some of them, um giving talks on the super spy at US Army

conferences, inviting uh the number two or three guy and FBI to Colgate College to a conference and corresponding back and forth with Jed Ghouver from 30s to 60s I think it was. This is all totally documented. So he doesn't describe his methods very much but he says he gets a susceptible guy. This is all in the published material. Uh puts him through some sort of conditioning which he doesn't really describe in any detail. And then he describes uh which is also in the MK Ultra

documents. He describes a a hypnotic code word that's implanted which was the moon is clear. So he brings this army guy in or the he assigns it to the colonel. The colonel brings in this army guy gives him a assignment to take some m care courier materials over to Tokyo and then says the moon is clear. Out comes the artificially created identity created by Esther Brooks. Gives him whatever the information is. sends the guy over to Tokyo. The officer on the far end says,

"Oh, thanks for the documents. The moon is clear. The secret message is transmitted. The response is implanted." Switch back to the regular guy. He goes back home. This is explicit clear detail. This is described. And then in the um CI created in 47, bluebird and artichoke were the precursors of ember culture which started in 1950. And in those documents it describes uh experiments where

they use secretaries and whoever they could get their hands on, hypnotizing them, getting them to do tasks and assignments and then having amnesia for that. This is all described in great detail. So the idea is if you could compartmentalize a person from an aspect of themselves, you can get that compartmentalized aspect to do whatever you want. And you can create a trigger to move somebody from their normal generic personality into this right kind of you know

secret courier person. And in the documents it describes uh words, verbal trigger, touch. In the manuran candidate book and movie it's a playing card. Mhm. So it can be anything that becomes a trigger. Yeah. Okay. So you have bluebird, you have artichoke. Then we got Meltra which then runs into the early 60s that's rolled over to MK search which runs into the early '7s. What is MK? Uh there's speculation about that but I don't know for sure. Some people think it's mind control,

but y m y k. So you can sound scary in German. Oh, control. Oh Jesus. Yeah, that's weird. Um, and and what were some of the earliest experiments that even like tipped uh US intel officials off that this was even possible? Uh, in the documents that I have, the GHS Brooks, you know, pitched his expertise to the CIA early in the ' 50s. Yeah, I read this book called um The Controllers by Martin Cannon and he talks about Esther Brooks bragging about this sort of thing. Um so,

okay. Fascinating. You clearly like to brag. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um who in the uh American government and intel community kind of championed this idea at the time kind of post World War II that we should be experimenting with this? the director of the CIA signed uh Bluebird into operation in April 1952, 3 months before the Korean War started in June. And then the disinformation cover story was,

oh, we were just reacting to what the Communist Chinese were doing, but it was already in place offensive and defensive before the Korean War started. So the directors of the CIA were all, you know, knew what was going on. the top guy was Sydney got for MK Ultra uh who's an interesting character in and of itself and uh so he was kind of the organizer main character um I forget the year 50 50s something uh there's a guy in uh Fort Detric in the chemical warfare

division named Frank Olsen and he was starting to have little problem with his conscience and was kind of maybe going to become a whistle fullblower. So, Sydney Godly invited him to a party somewhere outside the Washington DC area and he was given a dose of LSD in quentthro lure and then he had sort of a bad trip. Uh but that in itself is a cover story. Uh because the story was

as a result of the being mentally ill, they didn't mention the LSD, he jumped out of a hotel window, the Statler Hotel, the 10th floor, and died. But actually um Harold Abronson who's involved in Mkeltra was a who's a doctor was involved in the story and there's a guy named Pierre Lefit uh who had like literally like 20 aliases which are all listed in a book. The last name of one

of his aliases was H Highell. Alex Hyell was Lee Harvey Oswald's alias. What? and Lee Harvey Oswald and Pier Lefit both worked at the Riley Coffee Company in the same period 60 to 63. So this is all some secret web of something. So you think Lee Harvey Oswald could have been an MK Ultra patient? Very well. Easily could have been. Whoa. Wait, so just I don't know that he was, but he very easily could have been. So let's back up. So Frank Olsen is working on biological warfare at Fort Dietrich

as part of MK Naomi. was pushed out of the hotel. Pushed out of the hotel window. Pierre Lefit by Pierre Lefit. I believe uh Frank Olsen's son is named Eric Olsen and he investigated this and realized the window was actually too small for him to he couldn't have jumped out of this this thing. He must have been pushed. The the family just bought the story. Uh but then they read one paragraph in a Rockefeller Commission report. Mhm. 73 or somewhere in there. uh describing exactly what happened to their dad, saying that he was dosed with LSD. So that's how they got on it,

got lawyers, and there's a photograph of the family in the Oval Office of the White House with the president giving them the $700,000 compensation check. Jesus Christ. So it was all blown wide open. Yeah. And Sydney Gotley on record, you know, there's a great biography of him called Poisoner and Chief, right? And he's known as kind of almost the US version of Joseph Mangala and like just kind of cowboy border science like you know human subject testing. He was head of the

technical staff services for the CIA. Technical services division. Technical services division. Sorry. TSD. What was there was also TSS though I believe. But anyways. Yeah I think it was the same thing with a different name. Okay. Okay. So okay. I want I don't want to let up on this Lee Harvey Oswald who's the supposed lone gunman who now everybody kind of knows probably wasn't the lone gunman when it comes to assassinating JFK in um November of 1963. I I have a document that's part of the blueberoke papers I think but one of the there's multiple programs project offen

broad mk nom uh there's like five or six of them all parallel the document is um one intelligence officer writing to another intelligence officer that after 63 no before 63 that Lee Harvey Oswald's mother has gotten in contact with the guy cuz Lee Harvey Oswald's mother is concerned that somebody's been impersonating him in Europe. There's a bunch of suspicious stuff going on. And then the other main suspicious thing about the story is, okay, so Marine Guy defects to Russia

and then we just let him back in and don't put him under surveillance or end the story. Nothing to see here. Well, then he goes and works at 544 Camp Street in New Orleans, and the guy who owns that building is an FBI investigator named Guy Banister, right? So, that's strange. And I believe he was implicated in he Lear Oswald like had the gun of he almost assassinated somebody six months earlier or something, right? But he was such a lousy shot that he didn't kill the guy. Yeah.

And and the gun a military guy. Yeah. Walker. Yeah. Walker. Right. Yeah. There's so much off about that whole story. And then he gets a job at the Texas Book Depository. And the woman who owns that or the woman who who he's like living with is is Ruth Payne, right? And she's very close with Mary Bankraftoft who's Alan Dulles's mistress. Alan Dulles is the director of the CIA. Tied in. Yeah. Yeah. So there's so many Ruth Payne is very tied in. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah. And then the guy who owns the Texas Bird Depository is a guy named Harold Bird. I don't

know that. Oh yeah. And he was a I think related to Richard Bird who did Operation High Jump who's headed towards you know um Antarctica and and and might have ran into like flying saucers. Sort of weird lore around that. But Harold Bird won uh you know some award for the Civil Air Corp from Curtis Lame and I believe was the Bird family was close with LBJ as well and there you know reasons to believe that LBJ might have had something to do with the assassination of JFK. Obviously he was a ruthlessly political guy. So that's the sort of politics conspiracy side of things. It's

the same thing when you get into the documents you find out in documented documents. This guy is connected to this guy. This guy is connected to that guy. It's this whole network. It's not just two guys in an office running the show. What are the Let's set the landscape as far as what are the modalities they are testing. So clearly hypnotism is one of them. Um is there like electroshocking, right? That's like uh there's all kinds of stuff. Brain electrode implants. Okay.

Electric shock. Whole bunch of different drugs. Uh classical sensor deprivation isolation. Mhm. Uh, basically they just kind of like threw everything at the wall to see what would stick. Yeah. It's very I was going to say helter skelter was probably not a good choice of term for this, but so in 75 or six at committee hearings um the general council for the US Army released a list of

120ish different drugs that had been used for mind control testing by the army. and they admitted to 1,500 LSD subjects. And there's videos of those online still. And sometimes it seems like they're admitting to 4,000. But if we do, 1500 people times 120 different drugs. It's a lot of people, right? It's a lot of people. That's pretty egregious. What did they discover worked of

all of those modalities? Were there things that worked better uh than others? Were there different use cases for the different modalities? So on Manurion candidate, they just poo pooed that totally. Yeah. It's not possible. We can't do that. We never use those people. Yeah. Which is just straight up lie. It's just a straight up lie. And we'll get into some examples that kind of prove that that's a straight up lie. Well, why don't we just get into that? So what what um what's a good example of somebody becoming a Manurion candidate? Well, we uh and Manurian

candidate is a is a compartmentalized trained assassin that you could trigger somebody to become an assassin. Why are they called Manurion candidates? So there's another document in the uh files there where the CIA officer writing to another CIA officer says he can he's concerned about reports this Korean war stuff that um a group of GIS going through a zone in Manuria were captured and hypnosis was used on them. That's the plot of the Manuran candidate in CIA documents

before the book was written or published. It's not just pulled out of nowhere. My take on all this in terms of the politics and the ethics is the CIA military would be negligent and guilty of dereliction of duty if they didn't look into this, didn't have expertise cuz obviously these kind of people are being run at us by terrorists, foreign intelligence agencies. So, uh, give me some of the early psychiatrists that were kind of pioneering these methods. Uh so again this is all documents

for sure within MK Ultra which is the same in other programs. There's kind of three categories of projects. There's 149 of them total. Uh a third of them are just straightforward sort of chemical procurement industrial contracts. A third of them the investigator who's some professor somewhere is unwitting. means he doesn't know it's CIA money because it's funneled through a front organization which they called a cutout. And then a third of them roughly are cleared at top secret. They know

it's CIA money. So two top secret cleared guys were Martin or Jolly West. So Martin Or being and it says in the documents the purpose of the project and says the amount of money and so on. Um and the year the purpose was studying hypnotic and dissociative states. So for sure they were working on that. Uh and Martin or was aware of JHester Brooks and back and forth. Um so Jolly

West is famous for several different things. One is killing an elephant at Oklahoma City Zoo with a dose of LSD. Uh he also was sort of involved in the UCLA violence project which was when uh Reagan was the uh governor. The idea there was to implant electrodes in prisoners brains and then when they're released sex offenders, track them, and if they go outside the allowed perimeter, send them a

signal and paralyze them temporarily. And that was shut down before it got started. But uh Louis Joan West was involved in that. He uh interviewed um Timothy McVey. Really? Oklahoma City bomber. So here Oklahoma City bomber. He Louis Jolian West is over in LA. There's lots of psychiatrists everywhere. By random chance they had Louis Jolian West come and invest interview Timothy McVey. Why

do you think he interviewed Tim the Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVey? Legend has it that in 1943, the Navy tried to teleport a ship in what's now known as the Philadelphia experiment, and it kind of worked. It disappeared, reappeared, and then half the crew got atomically fused into the ship's walls. Others just vanished. No one was where they were supposed to be. Talk about a breakdown in communication. And you know who was leading the whole project? My favorite, the

mid-century anti-gravity inventor Thomas Townsen Brown, who literally had a nervous breakdown that year due to the very poor communication among the team members. You know what that sounds like? Your team before you had quo. This year, upgrade your system to a workspace that keeps your team from shattering across dimensions. If you've ever tried to schedule a meeting across five time zones and six platforms, you know the absolute horror of losing people to the ether. That's why today's

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get 20% off your first 6 months when you go to quo.com/jesse. That's quo.com/jessie. Quo, no missed calls, no missed customers. Now, back to the show. McVey, this is all public domain. Uh McVey said when they took him to Tinker Air Force Base, they removed a computer chip from his buttock. What? This is all This is not conspiracy theory. This is facts that I got out

of, you know, public domain. Was he newspapers? Did he have any criminal background? Where do you think he was implanted with this thing? Like was he at UCLA? Were because Jolly West was obviously head of psychiatry at UCLA, right? Was he were there any connections between him and Jolly before the bombing? Not that I know of. But they removed But it wouldn't have to be him. I mean, it could be there's lots of people in the military, right? They removed a computer chip from his butt. It's [ __ ] weird. Which means they know exactly where he was every minute of every day up to the time

of the bombing. So the and then you hear things like Charles Manson, the responsible for the most famous murders, the Tate Lab Bianca murders, Sharon Tate, famous actress at the apex of her career, murdered in cold blood while pregnant with Roman Palansk's uh I don't know, son or daughter, but uh and and and and we now know from Tom O'Neal's amazing book, Chaos, that very amazing book, amazing book and just hard-headed journalism over decades. He started as like this, you know,

beat reporter like looking into, you know, the it was like the anniversary of the Manson murders. He was just going to do an article and then he he met Vincent Bugliosce who was the lead prosecutor on the case who wrote the book Helter Skelter and realized, oh my god, this narrative is entirely off. It's all cover story. It's all all cover story and realized that Manson in 1967 was going in consistently to the hate Ashbury Free Medical Clinic in uh San Francisco. Oh, you mean the one that Louis Jolly and West was at? Exactly. And Jolly West had an office there. Yeah. Yeah,

he did. And then you have this like transformation of this guy from this petty criminal who's being caught and released to this like sex god cult leader musician, you know, in LA who's like living with one of the Beach Boys and it's just this like, you know, day and night sort of thing. Um, so well I guess the meta question here is if you have a guy like Manson who's an MK Ultra patient and then you have a guy like McVey who's an MK Ultra patient. These people are committing

horrific acts. Why would the government, like the CIA, like a guy who had top secret clearance for the CIA, Jolly West, or any of these people program uh American citizens to murder other American citizens? Well, that's the question. So, probably because their ethics are a little off, number one. Yeah. But we don't know. So, it could be that Jolly West was just sort of a secondary character in the show cuz he's not going to be the only Manurion candidate creator on the planet. Uh,

can you create a chain of Manurion candidates? So, this is really creepy, but say what if the psychiatrist themselves is a manurian candidate and they are doing treatments that they're not even aware of to I'd advise not going to that psychiatrist. I know, but how how does anybody know? I mean, you you document all these people who are cutouts and not even like, you know, connected explicitly, and then what if they're themselves compartmentalized? So,

as I always say, we know the tiny tip of the iceberg. The stuff, the whole iceberg is just who knows what's going on down there. It's exactly like the Epstein story, right? Yeah. So, we know he exists. We know he's a trafficker. We know he supposedly killed himself. He either killed himself or was murdered in jail. Uh who else been prosecuted? Him and his girlfriend. That's it in the United States. Just just his girlfriend. Who's gotten the heat? Now Prince Andrew. Yeah. Some

expendable foreign guy. Yeah. None of the people who actually committed the crimes and then all the people in the documents all happened to not go to the not commit any crimes. You know, most of them say we didn't go to the island. It's preposterous. It's absolutely preposterous. Okay. I have a crazy question about him. Do you think do you think he was an MK Ultra patient? I have no idea. But the thing is it's not just like some crazy conspiracy theory. It's actually realistically possible that

any and a whole bunch of these guys were Can I Can I give you my crazy Epstein MK Ultra theory? Oh, you'll be in trouble if you don't. Okay. Um, so Manson, if you look at who he modeled his life off of, it was um, Stranger in a Strange Land, Robert Heinline, this like 1968 or nine bestseller sci-fi book. Uh, I believe he um calls his son, Don Michael Valentine, who is like the lead character

in the book. And he even calls his parole officer, a guy named Roger Smith. I believe he calls him Jubal. Jubal Harshaw was this protector character in this book. Manson, I sent you an email. I don't know if you saw it. Oh, I don't. You know, I don't think I did. The TV show FBI. Oh, you did? Yeah. What was this again? So the it's a fiction about FBI and they're always getting the bad guys and there's the woman who's sort of like the head, but the actual operational guy who's always, you know, checking stuff and looking on the screen and assigning people to go here and there,

his name is Jubel Valentine. Well, there you go. A mashup of two names in Stranger of a Strange Land. It's not random. That's not random. Clearly. So whether it's just some screenwriter with a sense of humor who read that kind of stuff or Well, this is where it gets really creepy. I'm like, are do you think that LSD was given to Manson or he was dosed up made to be extremely impressionable? We know that on record at the time there's a program called Operation Midnight Climax where actually

it's a sub project within Multra. Operation Midnight Climax is sort of an informal name for it, but it existed. So, it existed and they were dosing up hippies off the street in Hate Ashbury, putting them behind a, you know, a one-way mirror and then viewing them, you know, with prostitutes and stuff, how they'd behave. And so, here's a wrinkle on that story. So, that was mostly in San Francisco, a little bit in New York. Um, the guy who was sort of running that was a former whatever

the DEA was called before, can't remember the name of it before it was called the DEA. So, he was, you know, involved in various things that had to do with intelligence. So, he was running it. Um, and he's quoted as saying, his name was uh, George White, something along the lines of, "Where else could a good American boy rape, murder, and kill with impunity?" Jesus Christ. That's what he said in public. That was the head of the equivalent of the DEA at the time, the drug enforcement

agency. He was the head of Operation Midnight Climax. I know. But then he became the head of the DEA. Yeah. It's not a low-level. So none of these guys, the same with the psychiatrist, they're not just some, you know, off-the-g grid person in a basement somewhere. These are top psychiatrists, top government people, top secret cleared. So creepy. Okay, so here's my question. Okay. If they're doing stuff like that, um, they what I think is if you have a guy who's illiterate

who's modeling his life off the book, he can't read the book, but the book becomes the template for his life. Stranger in a strange land, Charles Manson. He was probably read the book while dosed up on LSD or ketamine or something. Could be. I don't know. Speculating. But if that's the case, I wonder if the same thing happened with Epstein because Epstein started at Dalton school, which was, you know, prep school in New York for no apparent reason. Wasn't qualified to work there. You jumped from nowhere to 300 million in a blink. Yeah. Well, that so that was Dalton and then Bear

Stern and all the other stuff. But even Dalton, you know, I think he was engaging in underage, you know, relations with his students at the time, right? Was unqualified for that job. was like this street kid and gets the job there. Um, I believe the guy who gives him a job is a guy named Donald Bar. And Donald Bar was a former highly cleared Navy guy and he wrote a book called Space Relations. And it's all about using underage sex as comprom. It's about this like,

you know, this guy that is, you know, uh, going to another planet and then ends up being groomed by this other woman and and the the woman almost, it could be like Gain or like, you know, like one of his handlers or something. So, you have another case where it's like his life seemed to be modeled off the book, right? And so I wonder if there was some sort of like weird screening of, you know, or made, you know, he was made to be very impressionable and then he was, you know, this this book was somehow the model or template for his life. Here's where it gets even crazier.

Uh Donald Bar's son is William Bar. William Bar was the attorney general under Trump and under Bush 41. under Trump when Epstein got arrested and as the acting attorney general, he went and visited uh Epstein's jail cell and and met with uh uh his cellmate, this guy Stone Reyes, who mysteriously died 6 months later. What acting attorney general ever visits the the jail cell of, you know, a random person who's committed a crime? That's crazy. But here's where it gets

crazier. Bill Bar was the CIA intern in 1974, 1975 around the church committee. He was a Senate CIA intern. Pull it. So, as far as like obstructing justice and possibly deleting records, you know, around MK Ultra, like that would be the perfect place to do it. The story on MK Ultra records is uh they were all destroyed by Richard Helms and Sydney Gotautle. Uh but they somehow found seven

boxes of documents in a storage facility somewhere. And then those are the documents that got released eventually. So that's called a limited hangout. That's actually the CIA's term, which is you let a little bit of information out, cover up the greater information. It's a standard operating strategy. So, I wonder if Bill Barr was like covering up for his dad's, you know, horrible. This is crazy speculation. I'm speculating. I have no idea. But it's very

it's weird fact pattern. Have you ever heard of a woman named Patty Hurst? William Randph Hurst's daughter who was kidnapped by the Limb Simbanese Liberation Army. Tell me this story. So William Randers for people that don't know is the model for Orson Wells Citizen Canain. He is the premier uh kind of publisher of you know the biggest newspapers San Francisco Chronicle and stuff in you know in the US and specifically California right this connects into Jim Jones and Jonestown

as well. Okay. So uh Patty Hurst's boyfriend whose name I just forget now. Um he was observed and it was reported in public domain on site at the people's temple location in Yukaya, California before they moved to South America. Then uh Donald Dreeze uh who was a petty criminal, same thing. Couldn't read a book. uh he was transferred within the prison system to a new location where

he walked out of the prison into the public. Um, and then, uh, a psychological warfare expert with the army in the Vietnam War came over under cover of the Black Cultural Association, met with him repeatedly, gave him his code name of CINQ 5. Uh, and then lo and behold, he kidnaps Patty Hurst.

Uh so the story is that the Simbian Liberation Army came into the apartment of Patty Hurst and the boyfriend knocked the boyfriend out. So he's just an innocent bystander who happened to be a Jim Jones 3 months earlier. And then they take Patty Hurst and they uh terrorize her, sensory deprivation, sensory isolation, hold her in a closet for weeks on end. She now has a new identity, Tanya, who participates in a bank robbery. Jesus. She's convicted. And then at

trial, the people testifying that she's been mind controlled include Louis Jolian West. It just like everything's so interwoven and interconnected. So weird. And then she gets pardoned by can't remember which president. No, Jolly West is like this bizarre figure who he's like Forest Gump or something. He pops up in all these places like hiding the truth. Like he, you know,

he saw Jack Ruby. So Jack Ruby killed Lee Harvey Oswald and he sees him in his cell, right, for was it 24 hours or something and then he comes out does a press conference says Jack Ruby's gone gone crazy. And literally that was the breaking point. Actually, he according to West shot Oswald while having an epileptic seizure. What? That's what that was what he said. Because he didn't remember having killed Lear Oswald, right? So, he probably was an MK Ultra patient before having shot Lear

Oswald. Who doesn't remember shooting somebody? Siron, we're just jumping around here. So, that's he's claimed amnesia for that. So the all the way so the guy that killed the supposed but not really lone gunman of JFK MK Ultra patient and then the guy that killed JFK's brother RFK was a you famous presidential candidate attorney general under JFK he was also probably an MK Ultra patient who I

think is still alive and to to this day does not says that he has no recollection of having shot RFK Robert F. Kennedy. Yep. It's so crazy. One of the can't remember the title of the book, but one of the RFK very wellressearched books, there's a photograph of the uh Los Angeles County corner with a ruler and he's measuring and counting the bullet entry holes because he knows another person got hit, RFK got hit, and there's certain number of in the door jambs and the walls. Those add up

to more than the chambers in the supposed lone shooters gun. I for a fact. That's right. And I believe it was the same coroner who saw JFK who wasn't happy about the treatment of JFK's body before he examined it and thought there was some malfeasants there. And I think it was a lot of gunshots specifically from the back in RFK's case. And yeah, supposed shooters four, five, six feet in front. In front. That's right. her hands shot was close range from behind. That's right. And I

believe Robert F. Kennedy cuz I think he was like giving a speech or something. Falls back and grabs this guy behind him and falls down on this guy. That guy was a locked skunk work bodyguard named Eugene Thne Caesar. Oh man. And I believe if you asked Robert F. Kennedy who's obviously now you know health and human services secretary right he will say I think Eugene Thane Caesar that locked security guard killed my father he would say that or he has he would say that he would say that I

think he believes that and why I'm not doubting it but why do you think that's what he believes you must have said something oh I I believe he no I'm saying I believe that he has publicly said this he's publicly said a 24 year old Palestinian man named Son Siron shot him with a 22 caliber revolver. He was hit three times. Five other people were wounded as well. Well, I didn't first of all I I would dispute that description of what happened. Okay. Um I don't believe that Sir Han's bullets ever hit my father. Oh, he was shot from behind by somebody who was standing

behind him with a gun pressed between the two of him and firing. And that man was almost certainly Eugene Fain Cesar who was a security guard who had been hired the day before. So pretty wild. And I think he thinks it was all done at the behest of this guy Bob Mayhew who was the general counsel for Howard Hughes or like the right-hand man for Howard Hughes, right? And it's all just so spooky. You have all these guys who were tied in with the 5412 commission at the time, the sort of inter

agency coordination group that I think originally starts out for, you know, if the government if the president wants to do some spooky covert action, it's plausible deniability for him. It's inter agency coordination and it turns into this sort of runaway, you know, deep state faction that just, you know, well, is it really runaway or not really is always a question right there? That's the other qu. Yeah, you call it runaway, but maybe it is always plausible deniability for the president. Who knows? I mean, you do have this famous speech obviously Eisenhower gives, beware of

the military-industrial complex, and you have to wonder if he was referring to groups like that. But, okay, so we're just we're just knocking them down as far as sacred cow assassinations, and they just all seem to be related to MK Ultra. You know, one person that people wonder about all the time, uh, not in the kind of political realm, but in the cultural realm, is the icon John Lennon, you know, the lead singer of the Beatles, who was this obviously counterculture hero, was probably viewed

as a threat, you know, by Jed Hoover and other people. Well, those guys were definitely unhappy about him. That's known. So, so tell me about his killer and was he possibly an MK Ultra patient? Uh, I don't know about who controlled him, but he was, you know, sort of like a low-level guy without a whole ton of money. Took off on a world tour. What's his name? Um, Mark David Chapman. Mark David Chapman. Uh, he was in a psych hospital in Hawaii for a while. He comes back. Um,

and there's I can't remember the name of the biography, but in the biography of him in great detail, it describes uh he had a whole bunch of people inside his head. Robert was the head guy. I mean, he had MPD, DID by description for sure, if that's all accurate. The MPD for the audiences, multiple personality disorder, which was renamed dissociative identity disorder at 94. Did one of the personalities was it saying you have to kill John Lennon? That part's not known. So why do we

think that he possibly was MK Ultraid and not just like you know MK, you know, multiple personality disorder you might associate with some sort of generic mental illness or something. Uh maybe could be. Don't know for sure. Okay. So hard to say there. But it's it's not just wild out of nowhere theorize it. Uh-huh. It's realistically possible that he could have been handled. Well, is there anything else any other evidence besides just having multiple personality disorder? Um, uh, let's see. What's the, uh, cuz I think those details, there's so many of them. What's the book

that was published in the 50s that was a trigger for him? Oh, uh, Catcher in the Ride. Catcher in the Ride. Yeah. Yeah. JD Salinger. Yeah. U, so he went to a bookstore and got that book. which maybe was the trigger before doing the shooting. Oh, interesting. Like the book triggered. Oh, Jesus. Maybe. That is wild. Well, I think Sir Han, Sir Han, going back to the Robert F. Kennedy thing, I believe he was writing in his diary at the time like must kill RFK or something like he had this

sort of like it was like he had been programmed. You can't I've looked at that in the different books. You can't tell. Is it just psychotic, rambling, obsessing, or is it programming? And he also like didn't he had like memory lapses, right? Like didn't he have some like he was traumatized uh in the Middle East as a kid cuz there's a lot of war going on. His apartment was bombed and he uh saw some dismembered bodies and stuff. So, he has a trauma foundation for being a dissociative

guy. Speaking of trauma foundation, you read some of these Epstein files and you start to go beyond this is just sick, you know, pedophile elite powerful people fulfilling their bizarre fantasies, uh, and into a territory of they're systematically conditioning some of these young people and creating what you call the the trauma foundation so that these people are susceptible and impressionable to future sort of manipulation. Do you think there was some sort of undercurrent

there with the the Epstein thing? Well, first of all, it's a bunch of sex offender guys. There's huge financial part to it. Sex trafficking. I mean, it's a multi-billion dollar industry, right? So, there's their own personal sexual whatever. There's the money. There's the scoring points with the other guys and being high ranking in that subculture. and then who knows what else. It's pretty pretty bizarre, man. It's a it's a weird world. You read that stuff and you're like,

"Oh my god." Like it really not only does it sort of vindicate the super conspiracy theorists like people who believed in Pizzagate cuz it looks like jerky and hot dog like these foods were like code words for children and stuff. It was just gross. Not only is it vindication for that, but it's vindication for people who I think viewed uh like the world more metaphysically and thought elite power structures weren't just vying for power but maybe were doing the bidding of some

like evil entities above them. Like what would drive anybody to do these sorts of things? It's, you know, it's like I think Les Wexner who was Epstein's like one of his closest associates and I think you know he like provided him with a house in Ohio and stuff and like piles of money. Yeah. Piles of money. He was the Victoria Secret founder and CEO. So do we think this guy has access to women? Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I mean there you go. Um, and then but but also I believe in the 80s or

90s less Wexner is writing in his diary and he's talking about being haunted by a dvak. And a dbuk is uh I think in Hebrew it means demon. And so you get into this these, you know, weird territory where it's like you're not even doing this for your own sick, sadistic, twisted, you know, pleasure. You're doing this because you're doing the bidding of some higher, you know, even more evil. Well, now now we're definitely outside the documents. Yeah. Yeah, we are. We're outside

regular psychiatry. Yes. So, but now you're into supernatural multi-dimensional entities, which then takes us into aliens. And sure, who knows? I mean, I don't pretend to know the answers to all this stuff. Well, speaking of supernatural entities, I know you're not interested in aliens at all. Not at all. It's not Yeah, who cares? Um, you know, maybe we'll get to that at some point, but uh, no, uh, uh, it's funny. Um, one of the people you mention in the documents as far as,

uh, you know, psychiatrists deeply implicated in MK Ultra is a guy named Michael Persinger. And do you know about his God helmet, the Persinger God helmet? So, tell us about that. Well, there's Martin Ore and Jolly West were on the board of the False Memory Syndrome Foundation that was formed in 1992. Mhm. And there's a if you ever watched a movie called Star Wars, there's the light in the dark, right? Universal themes. Yes. So, uh, in 1980 comprehensive textbook of psychiatry

that I studied is like the Bible of psychiatry. Three volumes. It's like literally this thick. Uh way at the back of volume two, there's a small section called topics of special interest, which is irrelevant stuff that we thought we'd throw in way at the back, and a chapter called incest, which is not a relevant topic in psychiatry. In that chapter, there's a reference to a 1955 study saying that incest occurs in one family out of a million in North America. Those were the medical

facts in 1980. So there's been massive cover up of childhood trauma, childhood sexual abuse, sexual harassment on and rape. There was no rape crisis centers around. It was all completely irrelevant to the mental health of the population. Is the implication of these psychiatrists who are causing trauma being on this false memory foundation? Is it like they're gaslighting the people that they've traumatized by saying they're false memories or like what's the Well,

I think it's This is now speculation, too. I'm going to speculate if you don't mind. Sure. I know you don't like speculation. I love speculation. Oh, I mis misread that. It's hard to tell. So, um I think there's if you look at the people on the the board and the people been active in the false memory, what was that organization trying to do? for sure, for a fact, publicly stated, get rid of multiple personality. Nobody's diagnosing it. Nobody's treating it. Discredit

it. Ridicule it. Shut it down. So, what were their motives? It wasn't just one thing. So, there's a bunch of people who are sort of memory experts and it doesn't fit with their model of memory that you can induce amnesia or even have amnesia just on your own as part of PTSD. So, they don't like that. So they want to shut that down. Then there's u I think a group of people who actually were mistakenly falsely accused of incest. So they want some organization to help them out. Then there's

people who were actually incest perpetrators. They need a defense. So it's all false memories. And then there's a group of people who just think that's a whole bunch of stupid Freudian theory and we've grown past that and we want to shut down all that nonsense. And then there's Jolly West Martin or their motive being to cover up the menuring candidate programs because therapists are starting to tune in to multiple personalities. Uh which didn't exist back in the back in the day

hardly. Uh and we're just starting to hear stories of I was taken to a military base. I was taken to a lab. I was spun around physically. Did things with goggles. all kinds of experimental stuff to create alter personalities. So this is leaking out into public. So that better get shut down. Jesus. So there's multiple motives there. You said spun around and disoriented. Yeah. It's all What do

you If you go to Abu Grae or Guantanamo Bay where we've all been by looking at photos, right? What do you see being done? torture, food deprivation, sensory deprivation, isolation, hooding, sitting in forced postures for hours and hours and hours and hours and hours at Abu Grae. Um, being forced to naked do sex stuff with other male uh, Muslim guys with a female US officer watching

uh, mock dog attacks, electric shock. There's photographs of all this stuff and um insulting the religion and stomping literally physically stomping on and destroying the Quran. Why would I mean but doing that to our it's horrible to do that to anyone, right? Doing that to our own citizens feels even crazier. Well, so jumping back to Guantano Bay, why would we be doing all

this stuff? That's just classical brainwashing, mind control. M technology. So suspicion they're actually trying to like Guantanamo Bay is actually a training breeding ground for Manurion candidate double agents who then get released. Wow. Go back home maybe. Oh interesting. So it's like the like worst case outcome is you inflict a lot of pain on the person. They give you vital

information. You break them. The best case is that you can actually create some split personality or something and then send them back into their home turf, their home countries, right? Jesus Christ, that's gnarly, man. That I mean that makes sense. It makes sense. The odds that it's never been done anywhere seems slim to me. Well, yeah. No, I mean that definitely has been. That's crazy. There's a a little side story. Since I'm Canadian by birth, I got two passports now. Um, there's a guy named

Omar Kedar. I'm not quite sure how you pronounce his last name. Um, who was a terrorist in the Middle East. I think it was Afghanistan. It was either Iraq or Afghanistan. Um, and he uh threw a grenade that wounded uh several American service guys. Well, How'd he get his hands on the grenade? How old was he? 12. So 12-year-old kid, a platoon of US soldiers invades his village way out in the

middle of nowhere. There's a firefight. He gets shot. This is according to the US military. He's under rubble. He gets pulled out. He gets taken back to here and here ends up at Guantanamo Bay because he's a known terrorist. And the I I don't know if it's true or not true, but they say that they are interested in him because his father may have communicated with Osama bin Laden. So, we're going to hold a 12-year-old kid who's now 18, 19, 20 for almost a decade to try and

get information out of him cuz we can't get that information out in a couple of weeks and he's a terrorist. And then he gets released and goes back to Canada and Canada gives him 10 million and place to stay. This is such stupid stories and such ridiculous behavior for what purpose? It's very weird. So you think there's this ulterior motive of I don't know if it's just gung-ho as you mentioned cowboy craziness or Yeah. there's some sort of ulterior motive or plan.

Like, what are the odds that a 12-year-old kid knows anything about anything? Speaking of kind of couriers that are split off from some hermetically sealed, almost encrypted part of themselves that's carrying a message into kind of deep foreign territory. One of the craziest stories from your book is about a woman named Candy Jones, right? What's her deal? The control of Candy Jones is uh is her auto not auto biography, not autobiography. Uh so she was a pinup girl in

World War II in the Pacific theater. Came back, was just kind of living a fairly regular life, nothing much going on. And then um there's a guy who's oh not going to remember this name either, but there's a guy who is a military intelligence guy who's living in the same building who kind of interacted with her a bit and she ended up uh getting worked on by this psychiatrist uh had a a new identity that was doing courier assignments and who knows exactly what kind of

assignments. And then she wrote it or she and her biographer wrote about that in detail. Did she What were the career assignments? Where did she go? Uh Philippines. I can't remember the whole list of places. Maybe Taiwan. I think probably it was over Eastern Asia. Yeah. Um the gifted and talented education program in the United States. This often comes up as possibly related to some of these mind control experiments, but being done systematically on young people. You have a lot of

people now coming out saying they had me drink a pink drink that erased my memory or I was told to stare at a sine wave and collapse the sine wave or, you know, look at a piece of metal and see how I mentally interacted with the metal, right? sometimes being spun around on, you know, their, you know, people's vestibular systems being messed with. I think I think there's something called the the G-lock or something like that. I don't know that. Do have you heard anything about the gifted and talented education program? A few sort of floating rumors. That's about it. Okay. But

I've had people have told me whether whatever the program was called that how did they get into it? Well, um, their dad took them over there because they they had dirt on their dad cuz he was a sex offender and so on. Now, the route is after school programs, special school programs, and then the special school program got transferred over to the base. So, I've heard those stories. Do you think any of this stuff do UFOs ever come up in your research? Do you think

any of this relates to UFOs? I've actually touched on that a few times. at risk of being dismissed as a EUO conspiracy nut. Of course, you're in good company. Uh, you outrank me. Actually, I'm just I'm just a lowle guy. Yeah. Yeah. You can you can uh you know, look look very sane next to me. So, I'm wearing a ridiculous shirt that says believe and alien on. Uh I'm wide open to aliens like uh

uh we know that there's like multiple multiple multiple multiple reports of uh visual sighting from the ground, visual sighting from the pilot, simultaneous radar sighting from the ground, radar sighting from the jet, you turning right angles at Mach 3, jumping up 80,000 ft in seconds. That's all documented. These things have been observed over and over and over. Uh which maybe we can get to Roswell in a second here. Um so there's clearly craft and the it's kind of like taking the lid off

little bit by little bit by little bit cuz it was all mockery mockery mockery mockery. But now it's not mockery anymore. Why? We're not talking about those crazy UFOs anymore. We're talking about UAPs. So that's sort of a sanitizing take the bad aura off and the military and the government are saying there's UAPs that are not from us. So okay, so is that cover story for some advanced program of our own, but it's it's not any technology that's anywhere near the public domain. Uh so

there definitely are UAPs flying around. Do they have biological occupants from other planets? Just based on that information, you can't say for sure. But it's not just a madeup by nutcases thing. It's an officially acknowledged phenomena by the government. And if it's not like it's not the Russians, it's not the Chinese, it's not us. Yep. We kind of run out of possibilities here. Well,

also if you think of UFOs as this like sacred truth, like a UFO itself is just a kind of a byproduct. It's this like, you know, it's the tip of the iceberg, which is just this object, right, that's flying in ways that we don't understand. And then if you think of that as uh the tip of the spear on like a deeper kind of worldview, metaphysical worldview that is just much more expanded than this kind of materialist reductionist, you know, kind of overly scientific view that we have today. Uh, I wonder if government or power structures think about people

who are seeking truth and looking systematically into UFOs as some some sort of like, you know, uh, threat because it's inherently kind of in a reverent search. It's you're looking for, you know, authority beyond the government or you're looking for, again, metaphysics that's very kind of expanded. And so I do sometimes wonder if there are divi if there are initiatives in the government to kind of manufacture division and stoke conflict within the UFO community or instigate belief in sort of bizarre ways or so without having any evidence.

I'm sure there are. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure there are too. Just the way intelligence operations operate. Yeah. You're always sewing to stand back in one side, back in the other side. Yeah. And if you just see it as a huge theater distraction, Uh-huh. what's it being distracted from? Well, it's because there really are aliens and somebody in the government is interacting with them or it's our own advanced weaponry that we want to keep a lid on. Yeah, I know. I know. One or the other.

I know enough to know that there's some aliens is a you know you are kind of being presumptuous by saying aliens as far as you know them being from another planet and I'm saying not you. I'm saying anybody. Um I'm I'm never presumptuous. And you're never presumptuous. Now you do stick with the facts. I don't. Um but uh well I just like to use facts as the base. I don't mind going off speculate. That's what you have to do. That's what you have to do with these things. And and I actually think it's irresponsible not to speculate if per what you said, you're being given little

bits and pieces of information strategically per these limited hangouts. If you're not trying to figure out what's actually going on and you're just taking at face value what you're being given, that's that's an issue. If you're being given the data set by somebody who's trying to throw you off, um do you have to sip on the Kool-Aid while you're doing that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's the thing. you have to sip on it and then say this Kool-Aid tastes bad and spit it out or something, you know. So, it's it's it's a really tough these things are tough to look into because the people that are the bad actors are often the sources of information. So, it's

it's a weird it's a weird space. Um, but yeah, I do wonder how much interaction the UFO stuff and the MK Ultra stuff is. I mean, okay, why don't we There's zero in the MK Ultra related documents. Not one word. The only connection I think I can Yeah. The the only connection um I have is I believe in Jacqu Valet. Jacqu Valet is this famous French godfather. You're aware of him.

Yeah. He's this amazing UFO researcher. He's the basis for France Rufo's character in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. He was Jen Heinik's assistant in Blue Book and he was also one of the kind of early pioneers of the internet. um he helped build Arpanet under Doug Angelbart. he um in he has these like series of diaries where he just writes about his meetings that he has and they're called forbidden science and he has like I think five volumes at this point and he talked about I believe Sydney got uh or some or like some of his sup some like people in like the CIA

you know technical staff services like that world them having books on UFOs and trying to understand what's going on with them, right? But like not really understanding what's going on with them. So there's some sort of interest on the part of people who are clearly deeply implicated in the mind control stuff in the UFO stuff. And then that book I mentioned, Martin Cannon Controllers, he says abductions are just like alien abductions are just a smokeokc screen for MK Ultra. Like

States in the '50s and I believe was at Time magazine was responsible for the Zaprder film. So the missing frames in the JFK assassination video like this guy was clearly sort of like the missing frames in the jail cell for Epstein. Exactly. The whole minute missing and the raw data. Crazy. So CD Jackson is in is meeting with the Betty and Barney Hill a few weeks after they get abducted back to uh Epstein. Yeah. So what if there's let's say it was accidentally missing? Mhm. Which is how

slack is that operation? But okay, everything's fine. Then a minute later he's dead. You you can't even die of asphixxiation in one minute. It takes longer. No, it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. that that case smells so bad. It's so obvious and you know, I don't know. I It's funny to me to see a lot of like the podcast circuit is like all like up in arms now and I'm like it's we've known this for five years. It's like so like just look at the facts like it's so obvious. Um you know,

not that they shouldn't be up in arms, but they should have been up in arms many years ago, right? But um the human energy field, let's we've been covering so much dark stuff. And I think the the positive element of this is that we all have these kind of bioelectric electromagnetic fields. And I think later MK Ultra stuff unfortunately deals with like chip implantations and stuff that is kind of freaky and weird. putting implants in dolphins brains and guiding them to drop bombs

is what? Who did that? CIA military documented. No way. Being able to remote control a dolphin to drop a bomb. Uh what's that? Uh the day of the dolphin. Yeah. You know that movie? Yeah. It's about John Lily. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. John Lily is the actual real life character. So the mysterious organiz government organization comes over and starts jacking around with he's working with dolphins and giving them LSD which John Lily actually did. And then what they do is

they get a dolphin they attach the bomb to the dolphin. The dolphin supposed to go under the can't remember if it's the vice president or the president's fishing boat and go tick and release the thing and it blows up and then that gets all shut down. But the documents described using brain electrode implant off he goes control the route being drop the bomb off that's described in the document. Jesus Christ there's so we'll veer into that before we get to the energy fields.

So in MCAL and related documents there's implanting electrodes in uh animal brains to control their behavior. Uh there's a guy Jose Delgado who's a neurosurgeon at Yale. He's got a published a book called towards a psycho civilized society and he says what we need to do is implant electrodes in the brains of the entire population not counting the lead generals and the top politicians and that's how we're going to make society psychosivilized. What

the stated in the book clearly so it's the mark of the beast. Yeah. And so uh there's photographs in medical journals. One is a 16-year-old girl who's had electrode in her brain. And Delgado, the technical advance he made was you don't have to have the wire connected. You can use a remote transmitter to activate the electrode. So depending on which electrode is being activated, she's normal. She's strumming on her guitar. She's pounding furiously at the on

the wall or she's just like out of it. This is photographs of this girl. And then in monkeys, uh, and one of the stupid cover stories is, oh yeah, we were trying this on cats. We had the cat with an electrode. We're sending it off into the world, but it ran off in front of a car and got killed. So we never do that again. Um, so, uh, this is how it leaks into Hollywood as fiction, but it's actually fact. uh the uh and it's treatment of epilepsy is why we're putting

electrodes in people's brains. All 100% documented. Then there's a guy in Tulain University, Robert Heath, psychiatrist, who's funded by uh CIA and multiple branches of the military. He's doing brain electrode implants and has the remote transmitter. He's curing the well-known mental disease of homosexuality because according to the American Psychiatric Associ

pornography over and over and over and over to condition them while you're stim stimulating the electrode to put him in a state of pre-orggasmic arousal. So you're pairing arousal with heterosexuality. And towards the end, this is all published in mainstream medical journal that I've actually published in myself. Um they towards the end they brought in a female prostitute, had her have sex with the guy while they're monitoring his brain waves and then they

debrief him and the prostitute and she says yeah he functioned well normal. No way. And then the end of the paper is so he was cured of homosexuality with only one relapse in the first 6 months. Jesus in the only one but that's what that's in the mainstream literature. Well, just like the Tuskegee syphilis study is published in mainstream journal. That is this is this is crazy. That's crazy. So, that's the crazy stuff that goes on in the psychiatry literature and in the official manual of psychiatry, let alone the hidden stuff. Jesus,

man. So we're just more I mean John Lily who we were talking about the inspiration for the day of the dolphin he would do he kind of invented the isolation tank and he would take you know a lot of um ketamine and would you know get into these dissociative states and he even like I think at one point summoned this thing he called the SSI the solid state entity and would communicate oh yeah communicate with this sort of alien intelligence and um he wrote a book called I think was it human uh programming and metarogramming. I haven't read it. I think so. So, you you just on

on the note of what you're saying, it just feels like humans are far more like programmable than we we don't think of ourselves as suggestible. We think of ourselves as sort of fixed, but in fact, we're way more impressionable than we'd ever believe. Well, just take a look at Hollywood. In the 50s, we were hunting communists, some of whom were communists and a bunch weren't. And like everybody was on board with we got to clean up, clean up America here. So that was pretty

unanimous. And now it's flipped to the opposite extreme where if you're not way over on the left, try finding work in Hollywood. Yeah, it's really hard. And so then that's just the programmability of people in general. place swing over here, they swing over there. Humans are extremely mimedic and uh you know, you just sort of ideas are fashion statements and you see it especially on social media is like really amplifies this cuz it's a hall of mirrors massively. So if you're not like

saying the thing that's like really popular right now, then you're sort of you're you're falling behind and you're not staying relevant or something. There's a guy in British Columbia, uh, so me being originally Canadian, uh, he just got fined. It was something like $750,000 for making, uh, just stating an opinion. Yeah. That there's only two genders and two sexes. That's insane. You got to find threequarters of a million dollars. That is so crazy. That is so

crazy. So that's what's the difference between that and the McCarthy era. Do you think do you think people like Jolly West tried to affect culture via celebrity? Like I actually I met a woman who was Charlton H's daughter-in-law. It's really sweet lady and um if you're out there hello uh and she you know uh uh Charlton H obviously you know this legendary actor but Charlton H was this NRA champion. Yeah. So he was this, you know, National Rifle Association, you know,

uh when shootings would happen, he would sort of be in the counter rally saying we, you know, protect the Second Amendment, the right to bear arms. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. That's right. And that, you know, and if anything, it mitigates violence and all this stuff. And then I found out there's some data to support that. the in in a reverse sense there's fewer deaths at home from guns in how homes that don't have guns which well hello it's pretty obvious that's a good stat

and for me this is not I moved from California to Texas so I'm not this is not a pmic on you know I'm not anti anti-gun necessarily but I do find it interesting that a guy in Jolly West who's clearly programmed a lot of violence at high levels in the US is best friends with the guy who's the head of the NRA and this gun champion. Like that seems interesting to me. Is there something there? You keep asking me questions as if I might know the answer. I don't know. You know, we're speculating.

We're we're in kind of really murky territory, but Well, obviously that it's a huge industry, right? Yeah. So, there's the financial part of it. There is the gung-ho cowboy part. Mhm. In Canada, I lived up in the Canadian Arctic. I probably killed two or 300 tarmaggan, which is a type of gross that turns white in the winter. I owned a rifle. I never did shoot a moose, but I owned a rifle. So, you know, I was out in the woods walking around hunting, killing, eating. Uh, in

southern Canada, I shot lots of rabbits and cooked them and eat them. So, I'm not, you know, we can't kill the animals type person, but the amount of gun violence in the United States when you look at the graphs like per 100, the United States is up here. Next country is like down here. Well, that so this is so out of control. It's out of control. And this is what I'm getting at. And this is a really weird deep conspiratorial thread of which we've, you know, developed a few here. But but it

seems like the things Jolly West are involved with and this cuts to Tom O'Neal's uh thesis with chaos is the construction of somebody like a Manson because he looked and talked and walked like a hippie when counterculture was at its greatest threat to again people like Jad Garoover who were running the FBI at the time, the State Department. These guys were a little bit straight. What's that? They were a little bit straight. What do you mean, Juber? I mean, they weren't hippies. They

were straight guys. Oh, that exact. Well, speaking of the, you know, kind of uh proverbial, you know, he wasn't exactly totally straight. Well, he was a cross he was into crossdressing and they had all this compliment on him. I know. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's always it's always this sort of narcissism of small differences weird thing going on. So, but the point like he had it out for counterculture, right? And so this is what Tom O'Neal concludes in his book is they're going to construct somebody that looks like a hippie in Charles Manson who literally had he was like this wannabe artist.

He has a song called Look at Your Game girl. He's living with the Beach Boys. And then um you have you know uh uh this you know famous quote by Joan Ddian right after the murders saying you know August I think it was 8th 1968 was the you know the day that the or maybe 1969 I don't remember was the day that the 60s ended the day that he you know committed the murders the next day the 60s ended counterculture hippie culture all that stuff's over so the threat is over if you're you know part of the establishment structure and so you have to Wonder, you know, again with this

connection with Charlton H and gun violence, was Jolly West specifically stoking symbolic violence, violence where you were creating local violence in order to move society in a specific teology. Like if you look at certain violent things that happen now, they get amplified so much across social media, right? Whether it's Kyle Writtenhouse on the right or George Floyd on the left, I'm not

making a comment on either of those things. It's not something I want to weigh into like both both, you know, kind of there's a very curious thing with George Floyd. Yeah. Obviously not a good guy. Obviously didn't deserve to die. It didn't deserve to die. Maybe was killed by the police officer, but he was cranked up on Coke and had heart condition. Sure. But we should say it was a it was a horrific video and and it would get any reasonable person whipped up. Yeah. So, but why select him as the poster child? He's for a documented fact held a pistol to a black pregnant

woman's abdomen while robbing our house. We want that guy to be our hero. There are all sorts of So, yeah. So, is that chosen on purpose to set up the counter argument that he's a no good bad guy or they just overlook it or how does that operate? Well, this is the thing. I think in either of those cases or you could you come up with a million different examples of like public violence um you know, violence that gets amplified across social media. again, not making a comment on,

you know, you could go get in all sorts of like deep arguments as to, you know, who's the guy who's like, you know, I can't breathe and he was being choked out, you know, in Brooklyn. Clearly, it's way past time to there's all sorts of police malfeasants in these cases. But I think if you're intel and you're viewing uh the effect of symbolic violence, there's something there's something very powerful about that. And it's very powerful if you want to sway things on particular issues. And so I think the public should just be aware and not susceptible to uh the the sort of you

know artificial construction of some of these violent cases. Good luck on that one. I know. Yeah. So here's a little slightly related. We're saying all these things and then it's like we're we're trending in the complete wrong direction as a society as far as our ability to make sense of any of these things. Like you go on Twitter or Tik Tok or Instagram and people's brains are being melted by this stuff. Debate now means shouting your feelings really loudly. That's right. So it Yeah. It almost makes me feel like because I So do you ever feel in danger talking

about this stuff? Like I did a little bit way back but then nothing happened. So okay, why am I sweating a couple decades later? Yeah. So it's been a story of my podcasting career. I'm like really I can say that. Okay cool. So far don't come on. Have you ever encountered MK Ultra being used in the context of spooky science? So I think of if you had a modern Manhattan project. Spooky science means means classified science or science that you know maybe would lead to it's

low barrier to entry and very destructive or um but we're talking actual engineering not confer a tactical advantage you know in aerospace or weaponry or anything like that because I think of we talked about the Manhattan project for a second if you had any sort of modern equivalence of the Manhattan project and you were working on something really sensitive. Mhm. You might implant one of the scientists with a chip or tell them to drink a drink or something and then you'd have

like a shutdown switch if they ever, you know, got lost in foreign territory. I mean, this is really dark stuff, but have you ever encountered anything like that or Uhuh. Okay. Um, let's get into lighter territory because this is a I'm officially really spooked. This is a great book. This is the the So, so far we've done mostly this book and a little bit this book. Now we're going to do that book. Now we're going to do this book, The Human Energy Field, right? What inspired you to write this? And what's the basic thesis? Uh, so I'm a hardcore scientist, right? Yeah. Mainstream.

No flaky stuff at all. No, you're right down the middle. Here comes the the mainstream, not flaky story. Yeah. So, I'm in uh England in ' 67 and I just remember not particularly thinking about the topic. Uh Nodding Hill Gate is right at the corner of a big park and I'm just walking into the park and all of a sudden I see a cone of light that comes out of my eyes. It's about 25 30 feet away. Diameter is about like this. And as I moved my gaze, it moves up onto the back of

a person. Then it dissolves. So what the hell? Hadn't taken any LSD that day. So I just stored that experience instead of oh that's stupid. And then that made me think about the sense of being stared at which is very common experience. And then uh it's called you know there's a word for it scopesthesia. I watched you talking to the Rupert Sheldendrick. Rupert Sheldrick. That's right. And I've read his book, so I'm aware of him. Yeah. So, uh, because you got to make it sound scientific,

right? What? Scopesthesia. Scopesthesia. Yeah. We're not fooling around here. You got to make it sound official, right? Yeah. So, which is good strategy. I agree with it. So, then uh UAP. So, the sense of being stared at uh and then I started to actually for some reason was more in Italy when I was traveling in Italy. I remember one time in particular, I could actually feel the spot on the side of my face that was being stared at when I turn around and look at the person that's

staring right at me. Wow. And then I had another experience of which is common. I'm looking through the window. So this energy goes through glass at a nicel looking Italian woman walking down the street. She turns and looks right at me. There's a look of mutual recognition and then it's like, "Huh?" So that's a very common experience that a lot of people have had, right? So then I go, I'm not going to just blow that off and say it's which mainstream quote science people say it's misperception. It's an illusion. It's not real because there's two theories.

There's intrammission, which is light comes into your eyes, goes to your retina back to your brain. That's clearly real. And then extra mission is something comes out of your eyes. Extrammission it not allowed. No way. Not happening. Going all the way back to John Lock. It's just forbidden. It's not possible. And that dominates academia today. So I go, "Yeah, maybe not. Something's got to be coming out here for you to sense somebody staring at you." So that's kind of what got me off on this. And then it was a spiritual, anthropological,

philosophical reading, walking around in the woods in England, in the bush in Canada, sensing energy fields. One time 1977 or 71, we've got a cabin in the woods in eastern Manitoba. So I was out there with my shotgun hunting rabbit and all of a sudden I go I could actually feel the stare of the rabbit and feel it was rabbit like energy. Turned around, shot it, ate it that evening. So that makes me

think, hm, there's survival advantage to being able to sense stare. And then that made me think, well, if you're a gazelle out in Africa somewhere and you can sense the predator staring at you and you feel uneasy and you take off, that's going to be selected for over evolution. It's a good survival skill. And so I'm thinking along those lines and then I go, well, okay, that's nice, but how are we going to study this scientifically? So Rupert Sheldrick talks about morphic fields,

right? But what are morphic fields? It's like how do you measure them? It doesn't lead to a natural experiment. So then I just went uh we know for a fact that every atom, every everything in the universe emits an electromagnetic field and then inside there's the strong nuclear force and the weak nuclear force and then gravity's in there somehow but who knows how. So it's it's just basic physics, right? So then I go, okay, I'm how am I going to

be able to marry eastern and western medicine? I'm going to say that energy, the spirit, the whatever, the whatever and the electromagnetic field of the body are the same thing, just looked at through different lenses. If you look through this lens, it's all spiritual, mystical, you can't study it. It's outside science. But if you look at it through ah it's electromagnetic energy. We can measure that. So you put 20 electrodes on your brain, you measure your EEG. You put

12 electrodes here, you measure your EKG. So we're already measuring the electromagnetic field of the body for diagnostic and treatment purposes. It's mainstream science. Nothing wacky about it at all. So the human body only has two parts, the brain and the heart. There's only brain disease and heart disease. That's it. Well, so the whole human body is emitting information of probable high level medical relevance all the time. Why aren't we measuring that? So then um I published a paper

in a uh pretty obscure electrical engineering journal where um a guy got these guys to sort of weld together a normal electrode that you put in mice's brains to measure stuff and suspended it in front of my eye so it's not touching my body at all. I've got ski goggles where I took out this side so I could actually see out. This side is covered with tin foil and copper mesh that I got at Target. So, it's high level science. U but that's very good electromagnetic insulation. Then

there's another electrode hanging out in front just in space. And then there's the 20 normal EG leads and these two frontal leads here. You can see the squiggly lines like normal EG. So here's the two frontal leads. Here's the lead in front of my eye. no physical contact with my body. Here's a control lead that's just showing background little it's a completely physiological real signal that's been picked up in front of your eye. It looks very similar to the electrode readings here.

So I mean the whole world hasn't said good job we know that extra mission is real now cuz you still have to say does it have any uh physiological or ecological function and how far does it propagate out into space? Turns out that uh there's an inverse square law shows that signals drop off really fast, but extra low frequency light brain wave level propagates because if you figure the the wave like is so huge, it's not going to drop off and it doesn't drop off and published in

mainstream journals for thousands of kilometers. The signal intensity doesn't drop off. So it's perfectly realistically possible that from here to the gazelle, it's still a strong signal. So then I go into the anthropology of it. Well, what about uh the sense of being stared at? But there in Italy, these people are called jettiatory. So they jet the evil eye out of their eye. There's

evil eye beliefs all around the world, right? And you can cause evil eye sickness by staring at a person if you're a jediator who's got bad energy. So like, okay, so there's all kinds of cultural precedence for this. What if it like 80% of that superstition? I don't care. My thesis is there's a core real electrophysiological signal there that can be investigated. That's fascinating. So you have the and what's really crazy is you said ELF extremely low frequency Andre Puharic who isn't in

some of the documentation that you went through for CIA doctors but you're aware of him. He was fascinated by ELF waves and thought that that was kind of the signal for consciousness right and that was I think the more kind of shut down part of part of his work. So what are you saying is uh evidence for extrammission this idea that the what are you saying that that the eyes emit photons or electrons or what specifically or or ELF waves? So your brain emits brain waves which

we measure by putting electrodes on your skull and we have to do uh a little contact pace there just to get a good contact otherwise there's too much noise. So these which I mentioned before before we started recording these electrical engineers mainstream grant-f funded mainstream publications they could take a normal clinical EKG from a meter away with no contact with the body. Sure. So these signals for sure are propagating out into space. If they go a meter because it's ELF the ELF

component is going way the heck out there. We know for a fact, proven, no doubt. And me with my one little paper of proven it's coming out of your eye. So there's all these brain waves going on. They got to get through your skull to get to the electrode. Oh, they don't have to go through your skull to come out your eye. The optic nerve is this giant electrical cable literally right there. and just the geometry of the skull and focus concentration probably the signal is going to be

stronger coming out of your eye. Oh, it's so wild. And it but it's completely scientifically testable and scientifically plausible. It's not mysticism. Yeah. So that's what I'm trying to do is take all this stuff and transform it into very specified ways this could be tested. Um which by the way I would like some financial help with that from somebody some kind person somewhere. Yeah. Um, and so this is electro technology. It looks like from a little bit I've looked into it,

probably an antenna technology is better. There's very high sensitive uh antenna that exist and you can buy them online. So whether it's electrode or antenna, start uh measuring these signals. So, for the eye part of it, which I'm just it's kind of my personal hobby horse because I've already been ridiculed in public for talking about extra mission, which I called the human eyebeam, but then I realized actually my daughter told me you can't call it the human eyebeam if you're going to publish it. So, it's human ocular extrammission. That sounds way more professional.

Is does it decay at all? So, I think of a normal electromagnetic wave as decaying at 1 / r 2. So one over distance your life doesn't decay like that. What does it decay like? I don't know for sure but minimally for literally hundreds of kilometers. So if I'm just thinking about a thing is the idea that I somehow know how to like when I'm when I'm imprinted when I'm literally just thinking of something. I'm conjuring it up in my mind. Am I affecting it somehow in this

model via these ELF waves that well geollocate it and literally reach it like a physical wave comes out of my brain or eyes? The whole body actually whole body and reaches this object transmitter is the solar plexus in my opinion. Okay. But but is a wave emitting from my body and reaching something that is geoloccated and tempor temporally located in our time space because I think of consciousness

like if you have a mental image of something. I don't necessarily translate that as like you are beaming a thing at it or do you think you are with these ELF waves? Well, we're back to yes, no, maybe. So that's why like the starting point. So my effort is to boil it down to actually testable stuff. Yeah. And you got to start here before you go way out here, right? So what would be the next test you would run? Uh develop a high high sensitivity electrode. I would just assume

that you can't repeatedly affect an object or a person who's across some sort of, you know, totally electromagnetic shielding Faraday chamber. And if you if I and I know these experiments have been done, how put off did experiments like this with Ingo Swan. It's part of Stargate, the official CIA psychic spy program. Sheldendrick's looked into that too, right? He's looked into this, but I my understanding is it's like it's replicable and it's real. It's a real effect, but that you can't do it every single time and you can't detect like an exact ELF wave every

time. I mean, maybe they just haven't studied the ELF component and it is literally a wave, but somehow my instinct is that it's more complicated than some frequency we're missing. Like my guess is over the last 50 plus years of study in parasychology with the benefit of information technology and chips and receivers and radio tech that someone must have done this experiment at some point and picked up it's classified. Do you think so? Yeah. There's again it's back to the

military intelligence community and whoever all the big companies would be negligent if they weren't trying to investigate this, tap into it, figure out what to do with it? I agree. But do you think you can repeatably pick up? So you think ELF waves explain all psychic phenomena? No. Okay. Nothing explains all of everything. So I'm just saying what can we actually measure now with our current technology? Sure. and publish in a mainstream journal and everybody's going to go said something stared at has just been proven. What do what do we know about the skin? What

happens if you stay out in the sun too long? Get burned. Ultraviolet radiation. What causes the burn? UV. What type of radiation is that? Electromagnetic. It's electromagnetic. It's um How do we synthesize vitamin D? Photons hit our skin. They're captured. They drive biological processes. How do we see? So your body is already capturing photons and using them to drive very well organized life essententral processes all the time. So there's nothing that's just again

right in the middle of common sense and science. So there's these sub threshold uh rays that I happen to glimpse a few times that they're just sub threshold. Doesn't mean they're not real. You know what I think you should invent? What? So, people have been experimenting with electromagnetic healing modalities for a long time. You have Royal Reich. We'll get we'll get there. Yeah. I'm just building the core of the territory and then it I'll I'll defend you

and say that this is a fact. The voltage gated ion channels is how cells communicate. Differentials of the potential between, you know, within the cell membrane and without the, you know, outside of the cell membrane. when it comes to you know things like sodium potassium is how cells communicate local electromagnetic fields affect those differentials affect the communication there's studies going back to the 70s there's a guy Gary Becker wrote a great book called the body electric where great book yeah great book you can essentially charge electromagnetically

the severed you know um arm of a tadpole cut off its arm charge it electromagnetically salamander He did too. Salamanders. Salamanders. You can cut off their arm and they regrow it themselves. You regrow it themselves. But you can regrow, you can create a two-headed salamander, two-headed tadpole also with basically just taking the, you know, uh, the gradient, the ion gradients of the, uh, head cells and then applying it to that stub of an arm that you cut off. So,

you end up with these, I mean, there's literally a guy at TUS right now named Michael Leven who's doing limb regeneration based on this stuff. It's really wild. It's all coming. It's all coming. Absolutely. So, for people who are saying this is quack science, no, it's absolutely real. So, here's what I think you should do. Okay. Um, so Royal Refe. Yeah. Who was actually involved? Oh, I'm aware of him. Yeah. Yeah. You're aware of him. So, he was involved in some not so savory research per what we were talking about in Plum Island and you know where where probably the modern version

of Lyme disease came from. Speaking of Yeah, I've read about that. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty interesting. Um but he had this thing called a rife machine which if you ask a Lyme disease patient to this day ironically uh this is the thing that works for them that it came from this guy Royal Refe uh and it works on the electromagnetic field from the of the body and it essentially is like a it's a horseshoe it's a copper horseshoe looks like basically a Tesla coil right and it seems to tune the body in this really healing way there's another company called amp coil which makes things

around in this area. I've used an amp coil before. It's called a Tesla coil. It's It's a Tesla coil. There's some guy around here who makes Tesla stuff. Elon Musk. We should get him involved possibly. Although tricky to get his attention. Yeah. I don't know. But um so I think if you There's a whole pmic on Elon working on Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. But I'm aware. Yeah. Yeah. You're aware. So um if you think of the body as you can turn molecular mass into frequency and

every organ or every part of the body should be operating at some optimum frequency. Right? Again not quacky to say there's a field called simatics. When the frequency goes to zero we know it's game over. We know it's game over. And there's a field called simatics where you can put sand on a vibrational plate and create structures deliberately with frequency and acoustics. And so we know that this is not pseudocience, right? So what if you created some sort of

just like we, you know, you can bank uh stem cells or blood cord uh as if you're, you know, a baby or whatever and then you do an autogus stem cell transfer later in life if you have some sort of malady and it can really help you. Can I tell you a secret about doctors? What? They use long words you don't understand to sound smarter. I know. Sorry for using the word autotogus. It's just your own stem cells is what I'm saying where you don't have an immune reaction due to transferring it. My point is what if you could figure out there was like an optimum frequency at which your organs or body was op could operate at you could then create sort of

a bank electromagnetically of you know what what is optimum health for your organs. You could also do that across a large cohort and then you could create essentially a tuning fork for the human body. And if you think about acoustics and physics and electromagnetics, they exist upstream of biochemistry. Biochemistry is, you know, one layer up on the stack. Do you want to know the caveman version of that technology? Tell me. Yeah. What do you put in a person's chest when

theories again but it's not even a conspiracy. It's literally it's prochemical based and all you know this was Rockefeller was funding this stuff and I'm not saying you know necessarily it was all I'm very critical of big pharma. It's it's horrible. It's a it's a bad system. So this is all it's all this prochemicalbased pills and then if you created this sort of generator that could like take that out like this literally this thing that could tune your body how amazing would that be? So you should create it. Thank you. Yeah. You should get me some money. I'm giving you the

idea and getting you the money. Yeah. Well, what else you got to do today? I think Okay, fine. I'll own 90% of the company then. I might have to negotiate on that. Okay. All right. We'll figure it out. Uh so, well, this is all where my thinking is heading. And it's all there's a TV show and a couple of movies called Star Trek. There's Dr. Bones. Mhm. triorder.

I'm talking about developing a triorder because you use this antenna. Okay, so interested about the I-beam but interested in the whole body and then you can have an array of these either electrodes or antenna whatever kind of sensors it is and you lie the person down and you can have just handheld single version and you can scan around. You can have a like a mammogram X-ray type thing or you can have like an MRI machine would lie in there. You have a ray of these electrodes and you measure and all the frequencies are coming out of the whole body

in all the different locations and can you spot disease at the electromagnetic level before it trickles down to the biological level? Probably. probably or you just do the scan. So, it's not like an MRI. You're not putting any radiation into the person or CT scan or anything. You're just measuring what comes out. So, it's no more noxious than taking a photograph of somebody. There's no side effects at all. And then, okay, just what you've been saying, okay, here's the

abnormality that we've measured and we've got, you know, all the norms and all the charts and all the different diseases all mapped out. what energy are we going to put back in to normalize this? Exactly. So, it's a whole electromagnetic medicine. And then uh I remember talking to a guy uh at a sort of a dinner get together was talking about sort of this kind of stuff and and I was getting on saying to him, "Yeah, well satellites now, they can read X-rays from the sky." And the

guy's a military guy. and he sort of scoffs at me and surprised me with his reactions. License plate. They can count the hair on a fly's butt. So, I mean, the resolution is incredible, right? So, if I've got a little lines here, it's called a fingerprint. I've got an iris here. I've got DNA in here. These are all identifying features of me, right? So maybe everybody has an electromagnetic specific signature to themselves which maybe you could track from way up there. So

then really there's funny side story about that too. uh a book about Osama bin Laden uh was uh obviously anti-FBI pro-CIA kind of perspective and they're making fun of um this you know guys in the FBI CIA they're stumbling and bumbling around they can't find him anywhere and oh we just missed our opportunity he was at uh Saudi Arabia I think it was one of those gettogethers

where they'll have their falcons and they're hunting and stuff and he was there and they knew who was there and they were monitoring from a drone or satellite or whatever and then they he just slipped out. We didn't notice him leaving and that's why we didn't get him that year. It's the most ridiculous preposterous story ever. What do you mean? You're surveying like all the time. What do you mean the tape changed? You the minute it was missing from when Bin Laden left. So we we

were obviously able to track any individual we want just optically. So now it could track electromagnetically. So we have that technology. How come we have all these missing children? We have no idea where they are. So there's some big block to getting that operational so we could find all these people and arrest all these guys. So it all now we're back into the conspiracy side of it. But so what what exactly? You're saying if this technology around MK Ultra is in the black along

with the electromagnetic signatures that are unique to people, we should be able to like track everybody on the planet like or some group should with sort of potentially but we're already tracking with digital currency, satellite imagery. Yeah. Telephones, emails. I mean, every single phone call, email is tracked and stored, right? So, it's just another additional part of the horrible surveillance complex. Yeah, it's fantast. Well, I'm back to the light side

here cuz uh my father's not that evil guy. Uh so, we're just taking mainstream medicine into the 21st century. We are, man. while dragging our feet on it a bit. And so then another thing would be security. So you have iris recognition. You have you you're the only person with your key. There's levels of it. Why don't we have a electromagnetic scanner that identifies the person? Why don't

we have a system where you can detect somebody approaching the building or entering the building electromagnetically? Let's not let's not do any of that. Let's do the healing thing first. Just saying this is part of the sales pitch, right? Yeah. There's so many applications then uh in agriculture. Yeah. Uh we have hydroponic gardening already, right? Yeah, sure. It's not that widely used. Uh we know there's some like really stupid, ridiculous people called medicine men. Yeah. And

they like to jump around and chant and wave feathers in the air to help the crops grow. Superstition. There's uh if you go back 1500 years in England, there's the maple dances, which are fertility dances in the spring. So, it's all cultures all over the place, right? Well, ridiculous nonsense, but they're they're having fun at the party. But what if the medicine man is emitting a specific focused electromagnetic signal which I say probably coming from the solar

plexus that actually enhances German germination. So now we go to the hydroponic garden. We measure what it is that's coming out of the medicine man's body. We imitate that frequency with an emitter. We expose the hydroponent garden to it. We have the control garden. What's the germination rate? It's totally researchable. Well, like Tesla said, it's all frequency. Yeah. And Dr. Colin Ross, I really appreciate this. I'm glad we ended on this positive note of fertilizing the world,

healing people. Uh because we just covered a lot of dark [ __ ] to be honest. True. And um but it's dark stuff that really needs to be exposed and uh you really helped uh put it to the light. And so I don't really know what you do with this. I think it's just be aware of all the weird malfeasants when it comes to intel on this stuff historically and you know maybe we can get some good investigative journalism as to what's happening today. And uh really appreciate you coming by man. It was a lot of fun. Sure. Thanks for the invite. Absolutely.