How the CIA Creates Mind Controlled Assassins | MEMBERS RELEASE

American citizens to murder other American citizens? >> Well, that's the question. So, >> you have documented project called MK Ultra and other kind of variations of mind control, creating splits and multiple personalities, couriers and spies, manurian candidates, assassinate world leaders. They used whoever they could get their hands on, hypnotizing them, brain electrode implants, electric shock, creating the super spy. >> This stuff is shocking.

>> The US Army released a list of 120ish different drugs that had been used for mind control testing. 1,500 people times 120 different drugs. It's a lot of people, right? It's a lot of people. When you get into the documents, you find out this guy is connected to this guy, this guy's connected to that guy. It's this whole network. >> Lee Harvey Oswald, who's the supposed lone gunman, probably wasn't the lone gunman when it comes to assassinating JFK. Jack Ruby killed Lee Harvey Oswald,

so he probably was an MK Ultra patient before having shot Lee Harvey Oswald. He doesn't remember shooting somebody. Sir Han, Sir Han, to this day says that he has no recollection of having shot RFK. >> What do you remember about the shooting if you're willing to talk about that? I I was obviously I was there but I don't remember the exact moment. I don't remember pulling my gun. >> Then you have a guy like McVey who's an MK Ultra patient. Manson who's an MK Ultra patient. These people are

committing horrific acts. >> You think that my mind is like your mind but it isn't. >> This is really creepy. I wonder if the same thing happened with Epstein. >> The thing is it's not just some crazy conspiracy theory. It's actually possible. Can I give you my crazy Epstein MK Ultra theory? >> Oh, you'll be in trouble if you don't. >> Nothing too unusual about that.

Their existence cannot longer be denied. my mind with a just a really kind of bombshell crazy book. It's called uh CIA >> I brought you a copy, actually. >> Thank you. And uh well, here's my copy. >> And um >> here's your other copy. >> Yeah. Amazing. Well, thanks. I I'd love

a second. Um, and I'd love to hand as many of these out as possible to as many people as as you know I can because uh >> as long as it's over a million, I'm >> Okay, perfect. Yeah, just give me an affiliate fee. >> Um, but I truly um this stuff is shocking. You have documented >> the kind of medical malpractice of a whole host of uh psychiatrists who are either officially or unofficially associated often with CIA and project

called MK Ultra and a lot of the derivatives and subco compartments and other kind of variations of that uh mind control largely. Um and it talks about uh dissociating personalities, creating splits in multiple personalities uh so that you can send couriers and spies, create Manurion candidates, uh assassinate world leaders. It is mindblowing and it's jarring to say the >> Well, and the thing is so I'll give you

background, personal background a little bit. So I grew up in Canada. Uh medical school, psychiatry training, worked in Canada for a while and then moved here equals Texas in '91 to a and my specialty is multiple personality equals dissociative identity disorder. And so, uh, I was in a program there at a hospital up in Plano and 2 or 3 months in, one of the patients who had multiple personalities comes up with this little sheath of papers and all paranoid and

scared and hands them to me and I don't want these and take these and I look at them and I go, "Hm, MK Ultra, first I've heard of that." That's how I got into it by this woman handing me this pile of papers. Otherwise, wasn't interested know about it. I w I thought The Search for the Manurian candidate was some kind of movie or something, but I wasn't really sure. >> It is a movie. It's I think 1961 Frank Sinatra >> and it discusses the creation of this

assassin essentially post Korean war that China, you know, Manuria is this northeastern part of China. >> It's and it's based on a book from the >> There you go. So fiction, Hollywood, entertaining, end of story. So what I did was I read a couple of books that existed. There was no published like mainstream journal type papers. And then I was down in uh Northern Virginia for a conference in 92. And I corresponded with the CIA, which

was like pre- internet back in the era. And uh they gave me an address to come to to read the MK Ultra Papers. So I'm at the conference hotel. This is just a crazy side story in itself. Uh walk out, get in a taxi, and it turns out the taxi driver is telling me his story of he was a police officer in Afghanistan before he moved to the United States. Wonder if this is a coincidence that this guy's driving me. And then he goes,

"Would you like to go through the grounds of the Pentagon on the way?" Whoa, sure. Okay. Um, and then he says, "Well, what are you where are you going? What are you doing?" "Oh, I'm just going to meet with some people." Drops me off at this building that it's very You can't tell what it is. And I walk in there and I mean, this civilian guy has nothing to do with the military. Uh, and there's a whole bunch of military guys in uniform. One sign says uh secure line

DIA only. Another one is secure line CIA only. I walk up to the desk. Hi, I'm here to read some documents. And the guy gives me a look like, oh, here's one of these guys here. Sign in and the woman comes down uh after 10 minutes maybe. Get in the little jammed elevator with a bunch of guys in uniform and bunch of guys who I don't know who they are. go up to fifth floor, seventh floor, whatever it was. Get off, walk down the corridor, and there's like a submarine door with she

has to key code in. Then another door, and then we're in a small office and assign a piece of paper. walk over here through another one of those doors into a room where there there's a cart with all the 149 MKL projects there and 15,000 pages of documents. Had to read them all. Uh which took a while. Thank God you did all this um because it's a really comprehensive book and it it clearly touches kind of close to the

metal as far as what actually transpired and and and what went on >> and uh if you really want to kind of understand what these psychiatrists were doing, how they were communicating with, you know, CIA, this book is great. So just real quick for the audience, you give a little context as to how you got into this topic. What's your day job? >> Uh psychiatrist. >> Okay. And you have no affiliation with MK Ultra, I assume. >> Of course, people go, "Oh, yeah, that's what he says."

>> I'm just a civilian guy. >> Um, so I know lots about all these documented facts. >> And I have this pile of documents, >> but I don't have any insider knowledge about stuff currently at all. >> Which is kind of disappointing in a way, >> Yeah. Well, the the trail goes dark in 1975 with the Church Commission where all this malfeasants, you know, in the CIA, not just mind control stuff was investigated and there was this kind of large reform. Let's go back to the very beginning of uh cowboy intelligence

interventionism in the human body. So, I want to talk about uh you know uh >> we're talking China 3000 BC. No, no. In at least in the American context. So, um let's talk about the Tuskegee experiment because that for people who are in their minds they're like how could the government ever do something like this? It's just seems so horrific and beyond what they would ever do. >> I think this is a really good jumping off point. >> That's why there's a chapter in the book about Tuskegee. So, one of the skeptical

things is you could never do all that stuff and keep it secret. And if it was known, it would get shut down. So Tuskegee, which is a town in the southern United States, um 1932, the the public health service was the organizing entity. Uh surgeon general signed off on it. All these top medical people were aware. And I've got a one of the papers I copied is called side effects of syphilis in the male negro is

the title of the paper. So g give people context on just high level what happened because it's so shocking. >> They recruited 400 black rural mostly illiterate guys who had syphilis and then prevented them from getting treatment all the way till it was shut down in 1972 cuz a reporter blew whistle on it. So it was studying the effects of untreated syphilis and the astounding medical discovery was

people would get sick and die earlier. >> Yeah. Shocker. >> That's all they learned. >> Shocker. Uh pretty pretty pretty crazy. So you you have that obviously uh occurring. You have early radiation experiments. What you know, how does radiation interact with the physical >> It's all documented 100%. And there's all kinds of like on the edge things I've heard, I suspect, but right now we're just 100% documented. So, uh, Clinton had a report in the late '9s on

radiation experiments. It's like pretty thick, couple inches thick. And in there, it describes a whole bunch of stuff. U including uh I think it was seven, HP7 was his name, which means human product 7. >> Mhm. This is guys they did radiation experiments on. So, and this is in one of the Harvard hospitals in Boston. He comes into the ER unconscious in a coma. They inject him with plutonium and he he dies without ever waking up.

Not from the plutonium, just whatever happened with him. So, they're just how does it go through his kidneys? How is it excreted? They're studying that. >> Jesus Christ. So, if the guy arrived in a coma, I'm guessing he didn't give informed consent, right? >> Definitely not. >> And there's uh >> is wasn't Edwin Land who I think started Polaroid? I believe he had an institute in Boston and they were doing some interesting studies when it came to radiation the human body. >> I know the Polaroid company was involved

somehow, but I forget. >> But it is connected in there somehow. >> Okay. So let's get to MK Ultra or or just mind control generally. When did the idea of mind control cross the minds of American leadership? >> What's documented is in the second world war the because people have been manipulating and controlling people forever right so just making it government organized sophisticated scientific doctors involved that's at least in the second world war. So uh

1941 or two uh all the intelligence agencies which are kind of scattered all over the place in the US were brought under the umbrella of the office of strategic services which is the OSS and then the OSS was disbanded at the end of the war and then in 1947 the CIA was created and a lot of the OSS guys just moved over there. So um there's a guy named GH Esster Brooks who's on the he's a chapter in the book uh Colgate College

upstate New York. He uh published a book in 1943 on hypnotism and a paper in 1971 or two in a magazine describing creating the super spy. Uh, and I have copies of his uh, contract with the war department back in 43 or so. um him corresponding with MK Ultra top secret cleared contractors, inviting them to uh Colgate

College, corresponding with them, co-publishing with some of them, um giving talks on the super spy at US Army conferences, inviting uh the number two or three guy and FBI to Colgate College to a conference and corresponding back and forth with Jed Ghouver from 30s to 60s I think it was. This is all totally documented. So he doesn't describe his methods very much but he says he gets a susceptible guy.

This is all in the published material. Uh puts him through some sort of conditioning which he doesn't really describe in any detail. And then he describes uh which is also in the MK Ultra documents. He describes a a hypnotic code word that's implanted which was the moon is clear. So he brings this army guy in or the he assigns it to the colonel. The colonel brings in this army guy gives him a assignment to take some m care courier

materials over to Tokyo and then says the moon is clear. Out comes the artificially created identity created by Esther Brooks. Gives him whatever the information is. sends the guy over to Tokyo. The officer on the far end says, "Oh, thanks for the documents. The moon is clear. The secret message is transmitted. The response is implanted." Switch back to the regular guy. He goes back home. This is explicit clear

detail. This is described. And then in the um CI created in 47, bluebird and artichoke were the precursors of ember culture which started in 1950. And in those documents it describes uh experiments where they used secretaries and whoever they could get their hands on, hypnotizing them, getting them to do tasks and assignments and then having amnesia for that. This is all described in great detail. So the idea is if you

could compartmentalize a person from an aspect of themselves, you can get that compartmentalized aspect to do whatever you want. >> And you can create a trigger >> to move somebody from their normal generic personality into this >> kind of, you know, secret courier person. And in the documents it describes uh words, verbal trigger, touch. In the manuran candidate book and movie it's a playing card.

>> So it can be anything that becomes a >> Yeah. Okay. So you have bluebird, you have artichoke. >> Then we got Meltra which then runs into the early 60s. >> That's rolled over to MK search which runs into the early '7s. >> What is MK? >> Uh there's speculation about that but I don't know for sure. Some people think it's mind control, >> but y m y k. >> So you could sound scary in German. >> Oh, control. Oh Jesus. Yeah, that's weird. Um, and and what were some of the

experiments that even like tipped uh US intel officials off that this was even >> Uh, in the documents that I have, the GH Brooks, you know, pitched his expertise to the CIA early in the 50s. Isn't there a story of Esther Brooks going to parties and like being able to hypnotize somebody into literally a completely false identity and being and like sort of bragging about that ability? >> Uh I don't know that story. I wouldn't be surprised. >> Yeah, I read this book called um The

Controllers by Martin Cannon and he talks about Esther Brooks bragging about this sort of thing. >> Um so okay, fascinating. >> You clearly like to brag. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. um who in the uh American government and intel community kind of championed this idea at the time kind of post World War II that we should be experimenting with this. >> The director of the CIA signed uh Bluebird into operation in April 1952,

3 months before the Korean War started in June. And then the disinformation cover story was, oh, we were just reacting to what the communist Chinese were doing, but it was already in place, offensive and defensive, before the Korean War started. So, the directors of the CIA were all, you know, knew what was going on. The top guy was Sydney got for MK Ultra, uh, who's an interesting character in and of itself. And, uh, so he was kind of the organizer, main

character. Um I forget the year 50 50s something. Uh there's a guy in uh Fort Dietric in the chemical warfare division named Frank Olsen and he was starting to have a little problem with his conscience and was kind of maybe going to become a whistleblower. So Cindy Godly invited him to a party somewhere outside the Washington DC area and he was given a dose of LSD in quentthro

and then he had sort of a bad trip uh but that in itself is a cover story uh because the story was as a result of the being mentally ill they didn't mention the LSD he jumped out of a hotel window the Statler hotel the 10th floor and died. But actually um Harold Abronson who's involved in MKLtra was a who's a doctor was involved in the story and there's a guy named Pierre

uh who had like literally like 20 aliases which are all listed in a book. The last name of one of his aliases was H Highell. Alex Hyell was Lee Harvey Oswald's >> What? And Lee Harvey Oswald and Pier Lefit both worked at the Riley Coffee Company in the same period 60 to 63. So this is all some secret web of >> So you think Lee Harvey Oswald could have been an MK Ultra patient?

>> Very well. Easily could have been. >> Whoa. Wait. So just >> I don't know that he was, but he very easily could have been. >> So let's back up. So Frank Olsen is working on biological warfare at Fort Dietrich as part of MK Naomi. >> He was pushed out of the hotel. >> Pushed out of the hotel window. >> Pierre Lefit >> by Pierre Lefit. I believe uh Frank Olsen's son is named Eric Olsen and he investigated this and realized the window was actually too small for him to he couldn't have jumped out of this this thing. He must have been pushed. >> The the family just bought the story.

>> Uh but then they read one paragraph in a Rockefeller Commission report. >> Mhm. 73 or somewhere in there, uh, describing exactly what happened to their dad, saying that he was dosed with LSD. So, that's how they got on it, got lawyers, and there's a photograph of the family in the Oval Office of the White House with the president giving them the $700,000 compensation check. >> Jesus Christ. >> So, it was all blown wide open. >> Yeah. And Sydney Gotley on record, you

know, there's a great biography of him called Poisoner and Chief, >> right? and he's known as kind of almost the US version of Joseph Mangala and like just kind of cowboy border science like you know human subject testing. He was head of the technical staff services for the CIA. >> Technical services division. >> Technical services division. Sorry. TSD. What was there was also TSS though I believe. But anyways >> yeah I think it was the same thing with a different name. >> Okay. Okay. So, okay, but I want I don't want to let up on this Lee Harvey

Oswald, who's the supposed lone gunman, who now everybody kind of knows probably wasn't the lone gunman when it comes to assassinating JFK in um November of >> I I have a document that's part of the Blueird Archoke papers, I think. But one of the there's multiple programs project offen broad MK Nom uh there's like five or six of them all parallel the document is um one intelligence

officer writing to another intelligence officer that after 63 no before 63 that Lee Harvey Oswald's mother has gotten in contact with the guy because Lee Harvey Oswald's mother is concerned that somebody's been impersonating him in Europe. Well, there's a bunch of suspicious stuff going on. And then the other main suspicious thing about the story is, okay, so marine guy defects to Russia and then we just let him back in and

don't put him under surveillance or end the story. Nothing to see here. >> Well, then he goes and works at 544 Camp Street in New Orleans and the guy who owns that building is an FBI investigator named Guy Banister. >> Right. So that's strange. And I believe he was implicated in >> he knew that they were, you know, ex agents. They were running ops. You know, they were uh white supremacists in many cases. David Ferry certainly was. Uh Guy Banister certainly was. There was this whole white supremacist thing that was

going through the assassination. And Guy Banister was very fishy. Former FBI guy, long history in the FBI. Uh retires from the FBI, opens up this operation on Camp Street in New Orleans. And the the Fair Play for Cuba leaflets that Lee Harvey Oswald was passing out had the address of Camp Street, the same address. >> And Guy Banister died in ' 64. So he died before Garrison could interview >> But Bannister and Jack Martin got into a a fist fight >> over the assassination. Jack Martin

threatened to tell the feds all the weird stuff that was going on and in his office and so Banister pistol whipped him. Yeah, there's so much off about that whole story. And then he gets a job at the Texas Book Depository and the woman who owns that or the woman who who he's like living with is is Ruth >> And she's very close with Mary Bankraftoft who's Alan Dulles's mistress. Alan Dulles is the director of the CIA. >> Tied in. Yeah. Yeah. >> So there's so many

>> Ruth Payne is very tied in. >> Yeah, that's what I'm see. Yeah. Yeah. And then the guy who owns the Texas Bird Depository is a guy named Harold Bird. I don't know that. >> Oh yeah. And he was a I think related to Richard Bird who did Operation High Jump who's headed towards you know um >> and and and might have ran into like flying saucers. Sort of weird lore around that. But Harold Bird won uh you know some award for the Civil Air Corp from Curtis Lame and I believe was the Bird family was close with LBJ as well

and there you know reasons to believe that LBJ might have had something to do with the assassination of JFK. Obviously he was a ruthlessly political guy. >> So that's the sort of politics conspiracy side of things. It's the same thing when you get into the documents you find out in documented documents. This guy is connected to this guy. This guy is connected to that guy. It's this whole network. It's not just two guys in an office running the show. >> What are the Let's set the landscape as far as what are the modalities they are testing. So clearly hypnotism is one of

>> Um is there like electroshocking, right? That's like >> uh there's all kinds of stuff. Brain electrode implants. >> Electric shock. Whole bunch of different Uh classical sensor deprivation, isolation. Mhm. >> Uh, basically they just kind of like threw everything at the wall to see what would stick. >> It's very I was going to say helter skelter was probably not a good choice of term for this, but >> so in 75 or six at committee hearings um

the general council for the US Army released a list of 120ish different drugs that had been used for mind control testing by the army. and they admitted to 1,500 LSD subjects. And there's videos of those online still. And sometimes it seems like they're admitting to 4,000. But if we do, 1500 people times 120 different drugs. It's a lot of people, right? >> It's a lot of people.

That's pretty egregious. What did they discover worked of all of those modalities? Were there things that worked better uh than others? Were there different use cases for the different >> So on Manurion candidate, they just poo pooed that totally. Yeah, it's not possible. You can't do that. We never used those people. >> Which is just straight up lie. >> It's just a straight up lie. And we'll get into some examples that kind of prove that that's a straight up lie. Well, why don't we just get into that? So, what what um what's a good example

of somebody becoming a Manurian Well, we uh >> and Manurian candidate is is a compartmentalized trained assassin that you could trigger somebody to become an >> Why are they called Manurion candidates? So there's another document in the uh files there where the CIA officer writing to another CIA officer says he can he's concerned about reports this Korean war stuff that um a group of GIs

going through a zone in Manuria were captured and hypnosis was used on them. That's the plot of the Manuran candidate in CIA documents before the book was written or published. It's not just pulled out of nowhere. >> Interesting. It's fascinating. And so, and then what did what was the first uh kind of replication of that in the Western world? >> Well, all we have is GHS Brooks describing it >> in terms of documented.

This person was the candidate, this person was the controller. Don't have the documents. >> But you do have a couple of examples you give later like that Danish guy. So that's slightly different in that it's not organized military government >> sure operations. So, this is a guy who's in uh late 40s, I think. Um, but somewhere in that era. He's in prison and he's his cellmate is another guy who's in prison and this this guy's

Bjorn Neielen and the cellmate basically hypnotizes him and after he's released he does a bank robbery under the control of the the not CIA mind control handler in prison. And so that went to uh several levels of court and the court finding was the guy is not criminally responsible and the guy in jail is responsible legally.

>> Wild. So that literally the the court actually took into account the mind control in this case and I think his name was Paul Hardre. Is that right? >> Yeah. Pal I think it's I don't know how to pronounce it. P A L L E. >> Okay. Pi Pali Hardreup. Fascinating. Okay. So, we know that if there are v vigilante manurion candidates being created, we know that there are government manurian candidates being created. Um, >> so as I was saying before we started recording, my take on all this in terms

of the politics and the ethics is the CIA military would be negligent and guilty of dereliction of duty if they didn't look into this, didn't have expertise cuz obviously these kind of people are being run at us by terrorists, foreign intelligence agencies. So uh give me some of the early psychiatrists that were kind of pioneering these methods. >> Uh so again this is all documents for sure within MK Ultra which is the same

in other programs. There's kind of three categories of projects. >> There's 149 of them total. >> Uh a third of them are just straightforward sort of chemical procurement industrial contracts. A third of them, the investigator, who's some professor somewhere, is unwitting, means he doesn't know it's CIA money because it's funneled through a front organization, which they called a >> And then a third of them roughly are cleared at top secret. They know it's CIA money. >> So two top secret cleared guys were

Martin Orley West. >> So Martin Or being and it says in the documents the purpose of the project and says the amount of money and so on. um in the year the purpose was studying hypnotic and dissociative states. >> so for sure they were working on that. Uh and Martin Or was aware of Jester Brooks and back and forth. Um so Jolly West is famous for several different things. One is killing an

elephant at Oklahoma City Zoo with a dose of LSD. Uh he also was sort of involved in the UCLA violence project which was when uh Reagan was the uh governor. The idea there was to implant electrodes in prisoners brains and then when they're released sex offenders track them and if they go outside the allowed perimeter send them a signal and paralyze them And that was shut down before it got

Uh Louis Jolian West was involved in >> He uh interviewed Timothy McVey really >> Oklahoma City bomber. >> So here Oklahoma City bomber he Louis Jolian West is over in LA. There's lots of psychiatrists everywhere. By random chance they had Louis Jolian West come and invest interview Timothy McVey. Why do you think he interviewed Tim the Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVey?

>> McVey, this is all public domain. Uh McVey said when they took him to Tinker Air Force Base, they removed a computer chip from his buttock. This is all this is not conspiracy theory. This is facts that I got out of, you know, public domain. >> Was heapers? >> Did he have any criminal background? Where do you think he was implanted with this thing? Like was he at UCLA? Were >> because Jolly West was obviously head of psychiatry at UCLA, >> Was he were there any connections

between him and Jolly before the >> Not that I know of. >> But they removed >> But it wouldn't have to be him. I mean, it could be there's lots of people in the military, right? >> They removed a computer chip from his It's [ __ ] weird. >> Which means they know exactly where he was every minute of every day up to the time of the bombing. So the and then you hear things like Charles Manson, the responsible for the most famous murders, the Tate Lobianca murders. Sharon Tate, famous actress at the apex of her career, right, murdered in cold blood

while pregnant with Roman Palansk's uh I don't know, son or daughter, but uh and and and and we now know from Tom O'Neal's amazing book, Chaos, that >> very amazing book, >> amazing book and just hard-headed journalism over decades. He started as like this, you know, beat reporter like looking into, you know, it was like the anniversary of the Manson murders. He was just going to do an article and then he he met Vincent Bugliosce who was the lead prosecutor on the case who wrote the book Helter Skelter and realized oh

my god this narrative is entirely off. >> It's all cover story. >> It's all all the cover story and realized that Manson in 1967 was going in consistently to the Hate Ashbury Free Medical Clinic in uh San Francisco. >> Oh, you mean the one that Louis Jolly West was at? >> Exactly. And Jolly West had an office >> Yeah. Yeah, he did. And then you have this like transformation of this guy from this petty criminal who's being caught and released to this like sex god cult leader musician you know in LA

who's like living with one of the beach boys and like it's just this like you know day and night sort of thing. Um, so well I guess the meta question here is if you have a guy like Manson who's an MK Ultra patient, then you have a guy like McVey who's an MK Ultra patient. These people are committing horrific acts. Why would the government, like the CIA, like a guy who had top secret clearance for the CIA, Jolly West, >> or any of these people program

uh American citizens to murder other American citizens? Well, that's the question. So, probably because their ethics are a little off, number one. >> But we don't know. Oh, it could be that Jolly West was just sort of a secondary character in the show cuz he's not going to be the only Manurion candidate creator on the planet. Uh, can you create a chain of Manurion candidates? So, this is really creepy, but say what

if the psychiatrist themselves is a manurian candidate and they are doing treatments that they're not even aware of to >> I'd advise not going to that psychiatrist. I know, but how how does anybody know? I mean, you you document all these people who are cutouts and not even like, you know, connected >> and then what if they're themselves >> So, as I always say, we know the tiny tip of the iceberg, the stuff, the whole iceberg is just who

knows what's going on down there. It's exactly like the Epstein story, right? >> So, we know he exists. We know he's a We know he supposedly killed himself. He either killed himself or was murdered in jail. Uh who else been prosecuted? Him and his girlfriend. That's it in the United >> Just just his girlfriend. >> Who's gotten the heat? >> Now Prince Andrew. >> Yeah. Some expendable foreign guy. >> Yeah. None of the people who actually

committed the crimes and then all the people in the documents all happened to not go to the not commit any crimes. You know, mo most of them say we didn't go to the island. >> It's preposterous. >> It's absolutely preposterous. Okay. I have a crazy question about him. >> Do you think he do you think he was an MK Ultra patient? >> I have no idea. But the thing is it's not just like some crazy conspiracy theory. It's actually realistically possible that any and a whole bunch of these guys were >> Can I Can I give you my crazy Epstein MK

Ultra theory? >> Oh, you'll be in trouble if you don't. >> Okay. Um, so Manson, if you look at who he modeled his life off of, it was um, Stranger in a Strange Land, Robert Heinline, this like 1968 or nine bestseller sci-fi book. Uh, I believe he um calls his son Don Michael Valentine who is like the lead character in the book and he even calls his parole officer a guy named Roger Smith. I

believe he calls him Jubal. Jubal Harshaw was this protector character in this book. Manson, >> I sent you an email. I don't know if you saw it. >> Oh, I don't. >> You know, I don't think I did. >> The TV show FBI. >> Oh, you did? Yeah. What was this again? So the it's a fiction about FBI and they're always getting the bad guys and there's the woman who's sort of like the head, but the actual operational guy who's always, >> you know, checking stuff and looking on the screen and assigning people to go here and there, his name is Jubel

>> Well, there you go. A mashup of two names in Stranger of a Strange Land. >> It's not random. >> That's not random, clearly. So whether it's just some screenwriter with a sense of humor who read that kind of stuff or >> Well, this is where it gets really creepy. I'm like, are do you think that LSD was given to Manson or he was dosed up made to be extremely impressionable? We know that on record at the time there's a program called Operation Midnight Climax where >> actually it's a sub project within

>> Okay. Operation Midnight Climax is sort of an informal name for it, >> but it existed. >> So, it existed and they were dosing up hippies off the street in Hate Ashbury, putting them behind a, you know, a one-way mirror and then viewing them, you know, with prostitutes and stuff, how they'd behave. And >> so, here's a wrinkle on that story. >> So, that was mostly in San Francisco, a little bit in New York. Um, the guy who was sort of running that was a former whatever the DEA was called before,

can't remember the name of it before it was called the DEA. So, he was, you know, involved in various things that had to do with intelligence. So, he was running it. Um, and he's quoted as saying, his name was uh, George White, something along the lines of, "Where else could a good American boy rape, murder, and kill with impunity?" >> Jesus Christ. >> That's what he said in public. >> That was the head of the equivalent of the DEA at the time, the drug enforcement agency. >> He was the head of Operation Midnight

>> I know, but then he became the head of >> DEA. It's not a low-level. So none of these guys, the same with the psychiatrist, they're not just some, you know, offthegrid person in a basement somewhere. These are top psychiatrists, top government people, top secret >> So creepy. Okay, so here's my question. >> If they're doing stuff like that, um, they what I think is if you have a guy who's illiterate who's modeling his

life off the book, he can't read the book, but the book becomes the template for his life, Stranger in a Strange Land, Charles Manson, he was probably read the book while dosed up on LSD or ketamine or something. >> Could be. >> I don't know. Speculating. But if that's the case, I wonder if the same thing happened with Epstein because Epstein started at Dalton School, which was, you know, prep school in New York for no apparent reason. Wasn't qualified to work there. >> They jumped from nowhere to 300 million in a blink.

>> Yeah. Well, that so that was Dalton and then Bear Stern and all the other stuff. But even Dalton, you know, I think he was engaging in underage, you know, relations with his students at the time, >> Was unqualified for that job. was like this street kid and gets the job there. Um, I believe the guy who gives him the job is a guy named Donald Bar. And Donald Bar was a former highly cleared Navy guy >> and he wrote a book called Space Relations. And it's all about >> using underage sex as compromant, but

it's about this like, you know, this guy that is, you know, uh, going to another planet and then ends up being groomed by this other woman and and the the woman almost, it could be like Gileain or like, you know, like one of his handlers or something. So, you have another case where it's like his life seemed to be modeled off the book, right? And so I wonder if there was some sort of like weird screening of, you know, or made, you know, he was made to be very impressionable and then he was, you know, this this book was somehow the

model or template for his life. Here's where it gets even crazier. Uh Donald Bar's son is William Bar. William Bar was the attorney general under Trump and under Bush 41. under Trump when Epstein got arrested and as the acting attorney general, he went and visited uh Epstein's jail cell and and met with uh uh his cellmate, this guy Stone Reyes, who mysteriously died 6 months later. >> What acting attorney general ever visits

the jail cell of, you know, a random person who's committed a crime? That's >> But here's where it gets crazier. Bill Bar was the CIA intern in 1974, 1975 around the church committee. He was a Senate CIA intern. >> So, as far as like obstructing justice and possibly deleting records, you know, around MK Ultra, like that would be the perfect place to do it. >> The story on MK Ultra records is uh they

were all destroyed >> by Richard Helms and Sydney Gotautle. Uh but they somehow found seven boxes of documents in a storage facility >> and then those are the documents that got released eventually. So that's called a limited hangout. That's actually the CIA's term, which is you let a little bit of information out, cover up the greater information. It's a standard operating strategy. So, I wonder if Bill Barr was like covering up

for his dad's, you know, horrible. This is crazy speculation. I'm speculating. I have no idea. >> But it's very it's a weird fact pattern. >> Have you ever heard of a woman named Patty Hurst? >> William Randph Hurst's daughter >> who was kidnapped by the Lim Simbanese Liberation Army. >> Tell me this story. So William Randers for people that don't know is the model for Orson Wells Citizen Canain. He is the premier uh kind of publisher of you

know the biggest newspapers San Francisco Chronicle and stuff in you know in the US and specifically >> right this connects into Jim Jones and Jonestown as well. >> So uh Patty Hurst's boyfriend whose name I just forget now. Um he was observed and it was reported in public domain on site at the People's Temple location in Yukaya, California before they moved to South America. Then uh Donald Dreeze

uh who was a petty criminal, same thing. Couldn't read a book. uh he was transferred within the prison system to a new location where he walked out of the prison into the public. Um, and then, uh, a psychological warfare expert with the army in the Vietnam War came over under cover of the Black Cultural Association, met with him repeatedly,

gave him his code name of CINQ Uh, and then lo and behold, he kidnaps Patty Hurst. Liberation Army came into the apartment of Patty Huren, the boyfriend, knock the boyfriend out. So he's just an innocent bystander who happened to be a Jim Jones 3 months earlier. And then they take

Patty Hurst and they uh terrorize her, sensory deprivation, sensory isolation, hold her in a closet for weeks on end. She now has a new identity, Tanya, who participates in a bank robbery. Jesus. She's convicted. And then at trial, the people testifying that she's been mind include Louis Jolian West. It just like everything's so interwoven

and interconnected. >> So weird. >> And then she gets pardoned by can't remember which president. No, Jolly West is like this bizarre figure who he's like Forest Gump or something. He pops up in all these places like hiding the truth. Like he, you know, he saw Jack Ruby. So Jack Ruby killed Lee Harvey Oswald and he sees him in his cell, right, for was it 24 hours or something >> and then he comes out does a press conference says Jack Ruby's gone gone

crazy. And literally that was the breaking point. Actually, he according to West shot Oswald while having an epileptic seizure. >> That's what >> that was what he said. >> Because he didn't remember having killed Lear Oswald, right? So, he probably was an MK Ultra patient before having shot Lear Oswald. Who doesn't remember shooting somebody? >> we're just jumping around here. So, >> he's claimed amnesia for that. So all

the way along >> so the guy that killed the supposed but not really lone gunman of JFK MK Ultra patient and then the guy that killed JFK's brother RFK was a famous presidential candidate attorney general under JFK he was also probably an MK Ultra patient who I think is still alive and to to this day does not says that he has no recollection of having shot RFK Robert F. Kennedy. >> Yep. It's so crazy. >> One of the can't remember the title of

the book, but one of the RFK very wellressearched books. There's photograph of the uh Los Angeles County corner with a ruler and he's measuring and counting the bullet entry holes because he knows another person got hit, RFK got hit, and there's certain number of in the door jambs and the walls. Those add up to more than the chambers in the supposed lone shooters gun. >> I for a fact. >> That's right. And I believe it was the

same coroner who saw JFK who wasn't happy about the treatment of JFK's body before he examined it and thought there was some malfeasants there. And I think it was a lot of gunshots specifically from the back in RFK's case. And >> they're supposed shooters four, five, six feet in front. >> In front. That's right. Sir Hans shot was close range from behind. >> That's right. And I believe Robert F. Kennedy cuz I think he was like giving a speech or something. Falls back and

grabs this guy behind him and falls down on this guy. That guy was a locked skunkwork bodyguard named Eugene Thne >> Oh man. >> And I believe if you asked Robert F. Kennedy who's obviously now you know health and human services secretary >> he will say I think Eugene Thane Caesar that locked security guard killed my >> he would say that or he hasn't >> he would say that he would say that I think he believes that and

>> why I'm not doubting it but why do you think that's what he believes you must have said something >> oh I I believe he no I'm saying I believe that he has publicly said this >> he's publicly said >> a 24-year-old Palestinian man named Son on Seron shot him with a 22 caliber revolver. He was hit three times. Five other people were wounded as well. >> Well, I didn't. First of all, I I would dispute that description of what >> Um I don't believe that Sir Han's bullets ever hit my father. Oh, he was

shot from behind by somebody who was standing behind him with a gun pressed between the two of them and firing. And that man was almost certainly Eugene Fain Cesar who was a security guard who had been hired the day before. >> So pretty wild. And I think he thinks it was all done at the behest of this guy Bob Mayhew who was the general counsel for Howard Hughes or like the right-hand man for Howard Hughes, >> And it's all just so spooky. You have

all these guys who were tied in with the 5412 commission at the time, the sort of inter agency coordination group that I think originally starts out for, you know, if the government, if the president wants to do some spooky covert action, it's plausible deniability for him. It's inter agency coordination and it turns into this sort of runaway, you know, deep state faction that just, you >> well, is it really runaway or not really is always a question, right? >> That's the other qu. Yeah, you call it runaway, but maybe it is always

plausible deniability for the president. Who knows? I mean, you do have this famous speech obviously Eisenhower gives, beware of the military-industrial complex, and you have to wonder if >> he was referring to groups like that, >> okay. So, we're just we're just knocking them down as far as sacred cow assassinations, and they just all seem to be related to MK Ultra. You know, one person that people wonder about all the time, uh, not in the kind of political realm, but in the cultural realm, is the icon John Lennon, you know, the lead

singer of the Beatles, who was this obviously counterculture hero, was probably viewed as a threat, you know, by Jed Garoover and other people. >> Well, those guys were definitely unhappy about him. That's known. >> So, so tell me about his killer and was he possibly an MK Ultra patient? Uh, I don't know about who controlled him, but he was, you know, sort of like a low-level guy without a whole ton of money. >> Took off on a world tour. >> What's his name?

>> Mark David Chapman. >> Mark David Chapman. Uh, he was in a psych hospital in Hawaii for a while. >> He comes back. Um, and there's I can't remember the name of the biography, but in the biography of him in great detail, it describes uh he had a whole bunch of people inside his head. Robert was the head guy. I mean, he had MPD, DID by description for sure, if that's all accurate.

>> The MPD for the audiences, >> multiple personality disorder, which was renamed dissociative identity disorder at 94. Did one of the personalities was it saying you have to kill John Lennon? >> That part's not known. >> So why do we think that he possibly was MK Ultra and not just like you know MK, you know, multiple personality disorder you might associate with some sort of generic mental illness or something. >> Uh maybe could be. Don't know for sure. >> Okay. So hard to say there.

>> But it's it's not just wild out of nowhere theorize it. Uh-huh. >> It's realistically possible that he could have been handled. >> Well, is there anything else any other evidence besides just having multiple personality disorder? uh, let's see. What's the, uh, cuz I think >> those details, there's so many of them. What's the book that was published in the 50s that was a trigger for him? >> Oh, uh, Catcher and the Ride. >> Catcher in the Ride. >> Yeah. Yeah. JD Salinger. Yeah. U,

>> so he went to a bookstore and got that which maybe was the trigger before doing the shooting. >> Oh, interesting. Like the book triggered Oh, Jesus. >> that is wild. Well, I think Sir Han, Sir Han, going back to the Robert F. Kennedy thing, I believe he was writing in his diary at the time like must kill RFK or something like he had this sort of like it was like he had been programmed. >> You can't I've looked at that in the

different books. You can't tell. Is it just psychotic, rambling, obsessing, or is it programming? >> And he also like didn't he had like memory lapses, right? Like didn't he have some like >> he was traumatized uh in the Middle East as a kid >> cuz there's a lot of war going on. His apartment was bombed and he uh saw some dismembered bodies and stuff. So, he has a trauma foundation for being a dissociative guy. Speaking of trauma foundation, you read some of these

Epstein files and you start to go beyond this is just sick, you know, pedophile elite powerful people fulfilling their bizarre fantasies, uh, and into a territory of they're conditioning some of these young people and creating what you call the the trauma foundation >> so that these people are susceptible and impressionable to future sort of manipulation. Do you think there was

some sort of undercurrent there with the the Epstein thing? >> Well, first of all, it's a bunch of sex offender guys. >> There's huge financial part to it. Sex trafficking. I mean, it's a multi-billion dollar industry, right? So, there's their own personal sexual whatever. There's the money. There's the scoring points with the other guys and being high ranking in that subculture. and then who knows what else. It's >> pretty pretty bizarre, man. It's a it's

a weird world. You read that stuff and you're like, "Oh my god." Like it really not only does it sort of vindicate the super conspiracy theorists like people who believed in Pizzagate cuz it looks >> jerky and hot dog like these foods were like code words for children and stuff. It was just gross. Not only is it vindication for that, but it's vindication for people who I think viewed uh like the world more metaphysically and thought elite power

structures weren't just vying for power, but maybe were doing the bidding of some like evil entities above them. Like what would drive anybody to do these sorts of things? It's, you know, it's like I think Les Wexner who was Epstein's like one of his closest associates and I think, you know, he like provided him with a house in Ohio and stuff and like, you know, >> piles of money. >> Yeah. Piles of money. He was the Victoria Secret founder and CEO. >> So, do we think this guy has access to >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, there you

go. Um, and then but but also I believe in the 80s or 90s, Les Wexner is writing in his diary and he's talking about being haunted by a dvak. And a dbuk is uh I think in Hebrew it means demon. >> And so you get into this these, you know, weird territory where it's like you're not even doing this for your own sick, sadistic, twisted, you know, pleasure. You're doing this because you're doing the bidding of some higher, you know, even more evil.

>> Well, now now we're definitely outside the documents. >> Yeah. Yeah, we are. >> We're outside regular psychiatry. >> So, but now you're into supernatural multi-dimensional entities, which then takes us into aliens. And >> who knows? I don't pretend to know the answers to all this stuff. >> Well, speaking of supernatural entities, >> I know you're not interested in aliens at all. >> Not at all. It's not Yeah, who cares? Um, you know, maybe we'll get to that at some point, but uh, no, uh, uh, it's

funny. Um, one of the people you mention in the documents as far as, uh, you know, psychiatrists deeply implicated in MK Ultra is a guy named Michael >> And do you know about his God helmet, the Persinger God helmet. >> So tell us about that. >> Well, there's Martin O and Jolly West were on the board of the False Memory Syndrome Foundation that was formed in 1992. Mhm. >> And there's a if you ever watched a movie called Star Wars, there's the light and the dark, right? Universal

>> So, uh, in 1980 comprehensive textbook of psychiatry that I studied is like the Bible of psychiatry. Three volumes. It's like literally this thick. Uh way at the back of volume two, there's a small section called topics of special interest, which is irrelevant stuff that we thought we'd throw in way at the back, and a chapter called incest, which is not a relevant topic in psychiatry. In that chapter, there's a reference to a 1955 study saying that incest occurs

in one family out of a million in North America. Those were the medical facts in So there's been massive cover up of childhood trauma, childhood sexual sexual harassment on and rape. There was no rape crisis centers around. It was all completely irrelevant to the mental health of the >> Is the implication of these psychiatrists who are causing trauma being on this false memory foundation? Is it like they're

gaslighting the people that they've traumatized by saying they're false memories or like what's the >> Well, I think it's This is now speculation, too. I'm going to speculate if you don't mind. >> I know you don't like speculation. >> I love speculation. >> Oh. Oh, I mis misread that. >> It's hard to tell. >> So, um I think there's if you look at the people on the the board and the people been active in the false memory, what was that organization trying to do? for sure, for a fact, publicly stated,

"Get rid of multiple personality. Nobody's diagnosing it. Nobody's treating it. Discredit it. Ridicule it. Shut it down." So, what were their motives? It wasn't just one thing. So, there's a bunch of people who are sort of memory experts and it doesn't fit with their model of memory that you can induce amnesia or even have amnesia just on your own as part of PTSD. So, they don't like that. So they want to shut that down. Then there's uh I think a group of people who actually were

mistakenly falsely accused of incest. So they want some organization to help them out. Then there's people who were actually incest perpetrators. They need a defense. So it's all false memories. And then there's a group of people who just think that's a whole bunch of stupid Freudian theory and we've grown past that and we want to shut down all that nonsense. And then there's Jolly West Martin or their motive being to cover up the menuring candidate programs because therapists are starting to tune

in to multiple personalities. Uh which didn't exist back in the back in the day hardly. Uh and we're just starting to hear stories of I was taken to a military base. I was taken to a lab. I was spun around Did things with goggles. all kinds of experimental stuff to create alter personalities. So this is leaking out into public. So that better get shut down. >> So there's multiple motives there.

>> You said spun around and disoriented. >> Yeah. It's all What do you If you go to Abu Grae or Guantanamo Bay where we've all been by looking at photos, right? What do you see being done? torture, food deprivation, sensory deprivation, isolation, hooding, sitting in forced postures for hours and hours and hours and hours and hours at Abu Grae. Um, being forced to naked do sex stuff with

other male uh, Muslim guys with a female US officer watching uh, mock dog attacks, electric shock. There's photographs of all this stuff and um insulting the religion and stomping literally physically stomping on and destroying the Quran. >> Why would I mean but doing that to our it's horrible to do that to anyone, >> Doing that to our own citizens feels

even crazier. >> Well, so jumping back to Guantano Bay, >> why would we be doing all this stuff that's just classical brainwashing, mind control? M >> technology. So suspicion they're actually trying to like Guantanamo Bay is actually a training breeding ground for Manurion candidate double agents who then get >> Go back home maybe. >> Oh interesting. So it's like the like worst case outcome

is you inflict a lot of pain on the >> They give you vital information. You break them. The best case is that you can actually create some split personality or something and then send them back into their home turf, their home countries, >> Jesus Christ, that's gnarly, man. That I mean that makes sense. >> It makes sense. The odds that it's never been done anywhere seems slim to me. >> Well, yeah. No, I mean that definitely has been. That's crazy. >> There's a a little side story. Since I'm

Canadian by birth, I got two passports now. Um, there's a guy named Omar Kedar. I'm not quite sure how you pronounce his last name. >> Um, who was a terrorist in the Middle I think it was Afghanistan, was either Iraq or Afghanistan. Um, and he uh threw a grenade that wounded uh several American service guys. How'd he get his hands on the grenade?

How old was he? 12. So 12-year-old kid, a platoon of US soldiers invades his village way out in the middle of nowhere. There's a firefight. He gets shot. This is according to the US military. He's under rubble. He gets pulled out. He gets taken back to here and here ends up at Guantanamo Bay because he's a known terrorist. And the I I don't know if it's true or not true, but they say that they are interested in

him because his father may have communicated with with Osama bin Laden. So, we're going to hold a 12-year-old kid who's now 18, 19, 20 for almost a decade to try and get information out of him cuz we can't get that information out in a couple of weeks and he's a terrorist. And then he gets released and goes back to Canada and Canada gives him 10 million and place to stay. This is such stupid stories and such ridiculous behavior.

For what purpose? this ulterior motive of >> I don't know if it's just gung-ho as you mentioned cowboy craziness or >> Yeah. there's some sort of ulterior motive or plan. Like, what are the odds that a 12-year-old kid knows anything about anything? >> Speaking of kind of couriers that are split off from some hermetically sealed, almost encrypted part of themselves

that's carrying a message into kind of deep foreign territory. >> One of the craziest stories from your book is about a woman named Candy Jones, >> What's her deal? The control of Candy Jones is uh is her auto not auto biography, not autobiography. Uh so she was a pinup girl in World War II in the Pacific theater. Came back, was just kind of living a fairly regular life, nothing much going on. And then um

there's a guy who's oh not going to remember this name either but there's a guy who is a military intelligence guy who's living in the same building who kind of interacted with her a bit and she ended up uh getting worked on by this psychiatrist uh had a a new identity that was doing courier assignments and who knows exactly what kind of assignments and then she wrote or she and her biographer wrote about that in detail. >> Did she What were the career

assignments? Where did she go? Philippines. I can't remember the whole list of places. >> Maybe Taiwan, I think, >> probably. It was over Eastern Asia. >> Yeah. Um, the gifted and talented education program in the United States. This often comes up as possibly related to some of these mind control experiments, but being done systematically on young people. You have a lot of people now coming out saying they had me drink a pink drink that

erased my memory or I was told to stare at a sine wave and collapse the sine wave or you know look at a piece of metal and see how I mentally interacted with the metal >> sometimes being spun around on you know their you know people's vestibular systems being messed with I think I think there's something called the the G-lock or something like that >> I don't know that >> do have you heard anything about the gifted and talented education program. >> A few sort of floating rumors, that's about it. >> But I've had people have told me whether

whatever the program was called that how did they get into it? Well, um their dad took them over there because they they had dirt on their dad cuz he was a sex offender and so on. Another route is after school programs, special school programs, and then the special school program got transferred over to the base. M >> so I've heard those stories. >> Do you think any of this stuff do do UFOs ever come up in your research? Do you think any of this relates to UFOs?

>> I've actually touched on that a few times at risk of being dismissed as a EUO conspiracy nut. Of course, >> you're in good company. >> Uh you outrank me actually. I'm just I'm just a low-level guy. >> Yeah. Yeah. You can you can uh you know look look very sane next to me. So, >> I'm wearing a ridiculous shirt that says believe and alien on. >> Uh I'm wide open to aliens like uh uh we know that there's like multiple

multiple multiple multiple reports of uh visual sighting from the ground, visual sighting from the pilot, simultaneous radar sighting from the ground, radar sighting from the jet. you know, turning right angles at Mach 3, jumping up 80,000 ft in seconds. That's all documented. These things have been observed over and over and over. Uh, which maybe we can get to Roswell in a second here. Um, so there's clearly craft and the it's

kind of like taking the lid off little bit by little bit by little bit cuz it was all mockery, mockery, mockery, mockery. But now it's not mockery anymore. Why? We're not talking about those crazy UFOs anymore. We're talking about UAPs. So that's sort of a sanitizing take the bad aura off. >> And the military and the government are saying there's UAPs that are not from >> So okay, so is that cover story for some

advanced program of our own? But it's it's not any technology that's anywhere near the public domain. Uh, so there definitely are UAPs flying around. Do they have biological occupants from other planets? Just based on that information, you can't say for sure. But it's not just a madeup by nutcases thing. It's an acknowledged phenomena by the government. And if it's not like it's

not the Russians, it's not the Chinese, it's not us. We kind of run out of possibilities >> Well, also if you think of UFOs as this like sacred truth, like a UFO itself is just a kind of a byproduct. It's this like, you know, it's the tip of the iceberg, which is just this object, >> that's flying in ways that we don't understand. And then if you think of that as uh the tip of the spear on like a deeper kind of worldview, metaphysical worldview that is just much more

expanded than this kind of materialist reductionist, you know, kind of overly scientific view that we have today. Uh, I wonder if government or power structures think about people who are seeking truth and looking systematically into UFOs as some some sort of like, you know, uh, threat because it's inherently kind of irreverent search. It's you're looking for, you know, authority beyond the government or you're looking for again metaphysics that's very kind of

expanded. And so I do sometimes wonder if there are divi if there are initiatives in the government to kind of manufacture division and stoke conflict within the UFO community or instigate belief in sort of bizarre ways or >> so without having any evidence. I'm sure there are. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure there are too. >> Just the way intelligence operations >> You're always sewing to stand back in one side, back in the other side. Yeah.

if you just see it as a huge theater >> What's it being distracted from? Well, it's because there really are aliens and somebody in the government is interacting with them or it's our own advanced weaponry that we want to keep a lid on. >> Yeah, I know. I know enough one or the other. I know enough to know that there's some aliens is a you know you are kind of being presumptuous by saying aliens as far as you know them being from another planet and I'm saying not you I'm saying anybody. Um

>> I'm I'm never presumptuous >> and you're never presumptuous. Now you do stick with the facts. I don't. Um but >> well I just like to use facts as the base. I don't mind going off >> speculate. That's what you have to do. That's what you have to do with these things. And and I actually think it's irresponsible not to speculate if per what you said, you're being given little bits and pieces of information strategically per these limited >> If you're not trying to figure out what's actually going on and you're just taking at face value what you're being given, that's that's an issue. If you're being given the data set by somebody

who's trying to throw you off, >> um do you have to sip on the Kool-Aid while you're doing that? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's the thing. you have to sip on it and then say this Kool-Aid tastes bad and spit it out or something, you know. So, it's it's it's a really tough these things are tough to look into because the people that are the bad actors are often the sources of information. So, it's it's a weird it's a weird space. Um, but yeah, I do wonder how much interaction the UFO stuff and the MK Ultra stuff is. I mean, okay, why don't

>> There's zero in the MK Ultra related documents. Not one word. >> The only connection I think I can >> Yeah. The the only connection um I have >> I believe in Jacqu Valet. Jacqu Val is this famous French godfather. You're aware of him. Yeah. He's this amazing UFO researcher. He's the basis for France Rufo's character in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. >> He was Jen Heinik's assistant in Blue Book and he was also one of the kind of

early pioneers of the internet. um he helped build Arpanet under Doug he um in he has these like series of diaries where he just writes about his meetings that he has and they're called forbidden science and he has like I think five volumes at this point >> and he talked about I believe Sydney got uh or some or like some of his sup some like people in like the CIA you know technical staff services like that world

1961. where they're >> they actually say, you know, in their hypnotic regression, the beings look like Nazis or whatever. So then you get these operation paperclipip scientists brought over. >> There's a very cool X-Files episode. I don't remember the whole story, but the UFO crashes or something and the the woman is being like manipulated and she's probably going to get anal probe and everything by the aliens. Then all of a sudden, it's human beings. And then the boss guy says, "Okay, rinse her

>> Right. So, yeah. And you know what? I think certain abductions have been that. And then this is where it's so weird. It's kind of the perfect smoke screen for intel because I also think there are real alien abductions. So, the Betty and Barney Hill thing I think was a genuine abduction. But also, you know, the the other weird fact around that is Charles Douglas Jackson who worked at he was like head of, you know, a part of the psychological strategy board and ran psychological warfare for the United States in the '50s

>> and I believe was at Time magazine was responsible for the Zaprruder film. So, the missing frames in the JFK assassination video like this guy was >> sort of like the missing frames in the jail cell for Epstein. >> Exactly. The whole minute missing and the raw data. Crazy. So CD Jackson is in is meeting with the Betty and Barney Hill a few weeks after they get >> Back to uh Epsteines. >> So what if there's let's say it was accidentally missing? >> Which is how slack is that operation?

>> okay, everything's fine. Then a minute later he's dead. You you can't even die of asphixxiation in one minute. It takes longer. >> it's ridiculous. >> It's ridiculous. that that case smells so bad. It's so obvious and you know, I don't know. It's funny to me to see a lot of like the podcast circuit is like all like up in arms now and I'm like it's we've known this for five years. It's like so like just look at the facts like it's so obvious.

>> Um you know, not that they shouldn't be up in arms, but they should have been up in arms many years ago, right? But um the human energy field, let's we've been covering so much dark stuff. And I think the the positive element of this is that we all have these kind of bioelectric electromagnetic fields. And I think later MK Ultra stuff unfortunately deals with like chip implantations and stuff that is kind of freaky and weird. putting implants in dolphins brains and

guiding them to drop bombs. >> Is what? Who did that? >> CIA military documented. >> No way. Being able to remote control a dolphin to drop a bomb. >> Uh what's that? Uh the day of the dolphin. Yeah. You know that movie? >> Yeah. It's about John Lily. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. John Lily is the actual real life character. So the mysterious organiza government organization comes over and

starts jacking around with he's working with dolphins and giving them LSD which John Lily did. And then what they do is they get a dolphin they attach the bomb to the dolphin. The dolphin supposed to go under the can't remember if it's the vice president or the president's fishing boat and go tick and release the thing and it blows up and then that gets all shut down. But the documents describe using brain electrode implant off he goes control the route being drop the bomb

off that's described in the document. >> Jesus Christ >> there's so we'll veer into that before we get to the energy fields. Uh so in MCL related documents there's implanting electrodes in uh animal brains to control their behavior. Uh there's a guy Jose Delgado who's a neurosurgeon at Yale. He's got a published a book called towards a psychoso civilized society and

he says what we need to do is implant electrodes in the brains of the entire population not counting the lead generals and the top politicians and that's how we're going to make society >> What the stated in the book clearly so >> it's the mark of the beast. >> Yeah. And so uh there's photographs in medical journals. One is a 16-year-old girl who's had electrode in her brain. And Delgado, the technical advance he

made was you don't have to have the wire connected. You can use a remote transmitter to activate the electrode. So depending on which electrode is being activated, she's normal. She's strumming on her guitar. She's pounding furiously at the on the wall or she's just like out of it. This is photographs of this girl. And then in monkeys, uh, and one of the stupidest cover stories is, oh yeah, we were trying this on cats. We had the cat with an

electrode. We're sending it off into the world, but it ran off in front of a car and got killed. So we never do that again. Um, so, uh, this is how it leaks into Hollywood as fiction, but it's actually uh the uh and it's treatment of epilepsy is why we're putting electrodes in people's brains all 100% documented. Then there's a guy in Tullean

Robert Heath, psychiatrist who's funded by uh CIA and multiple branches of the military. He's doing brain electrode implants and has the remote transmitter. He's curing the well-known mental disease of homosexuality because according to the American Psychiatric Associ

>> Mhm. expose them to heterosexual pornography over and over and over and over to condition them while you're stimulating the electrode to put them in a state of pre-orggasmic arousal. >> So you're pairing arousal with And towards the end, this is all published in mainstream medical journal that I've actually published in myself. they towards the end they brought in a female prostitute, had her have sex with the guy while they're monitoring his

brain waves and then they debrief him and the prostitute and she says yeah he functioned well normal. >> No way. >> And then the end of the paper is so he was cured of homosexuality with only one relapse in the first 6 months. >> Jesus. And the only one but that's what >> that's in the mainstream literature. >> just like the Tuskegee syphilis study is published in mainstream journal. >> That is this is this is crazy. That's >> So, that's the crazy stuff that goes on

in the psychiatry literature and in the official manual of psychiatry, let alone the hidden stuff about >> Jesus, man. So we're just more I mean John Lily who we were talking about the inspiration for the day of the dolphin he would do he kind of invented the isolation tank and he would take you know a lot of um ketamine and would you know get into these dissociative states >> and he even like I think at one point summoned this thing he called the SSI the solid state entity and would communicate oh yeah communicate with

this sort of alien intelligence and >> um he wrote a book called I think was human uh programming and >> I haven't read it. >> I think so. So, you you just on on the note of what you're saying, it just feels like humans are far more like programmable than we we don't think of ourselves as suggestible. We think of ourselves as sort of fixed, but in fact, we're way more impressionable than we'd ever believe. >> Well, just take a look at Hollywood. In

the 50s, we were hunting communists, some of whom were communists and a bunch weren't. And like everybody was on board with we got to clean them up, clean up America here. So that was pretty unanimous. And now it's flipped to the opposite extreme where if you're not way over on the left, >> try finding work in Hollywood. >> Yeah. It's really hard. >> And so then that's just the programmability of people in general. They swing over here and they swing over

>> Humans are extremely mimedic and uh you know you just sort of ideas are fashion statements and you see it especially on social media is like really amplifies this cuz it's a hall of mirrors >> So if you're not like saying the thing that's like really popular right now then you're sort of you're falling behind and you're not staying relevant or something. There's a guy in British Columbia, uh, so me being originally Canadian, uh, he just got fined. It was

something like $750,000 for making, uh, just stating an opinion. >> That there's only two genders and two >> That's insane. >> You got to find three4ers of a million >> That is so crazy. That is so crazy. >> So that's what's the difference between that and the McCarthy era. Do you think do you think people like Jolly West tried to affect culture via celebrity? Like I actually I met a woman who was

Charlton H's daughter-in-law. It's really sweet lady. >> And um if you're out there, hello. Uh and she, you know, uh uh Charlton H obviously, you know, this legendary actor, but Charlton H was this NRA champion. Yeah. >> So he was this, you know, National Rifle Association, you know, >> uh when shootings would happen, he would sort of be in the counter rally saying we, you know, protect the Second Amendment, the right to bear arms. >> Guns don't kill people, people kill >> That's right. And that, you know, and if anything, it mitigates violence and all

this stuff. And then I found out >> there's some data to support that. the in in a reverse sense, there's fewer deaths at home from guns in our homes that don't have guns, which >> well, hello. It's pretty obvious. >> That's a good stat. And for me, this is not I moved from California to Texas, so I'm not this is not a pmic on, you know, I'm not anti- anti-gun necessarily, but I do find it interesting that a guy in Jolly West who's clearly programmed a

lot of violence at high levels in the US is best friends with the guy who's the head of the NRA and this gun champion. Like, that seems interesting to me. Is there something there? You keep asking me questions as if I might know the answer. >> I don't know. You know, we're speculating. We're in we're in kind of really murky territory, but >> Well, obviously that it's a huge industry, right? >> So, there's the financial part of it. There is the gung-ho cowboy part.

>> In Canada, I lived up in the Canadian Arctic. I probably killed two or 300 tarmaggan, which is a type of gross that turns white in the winter. I owned a rifle. I never did shoot a moose, but I owned a rifle. So, you know, I was out in the woods walking around hunting, killing, eating. Uh, in southern Canada, I shot lots of rabbits and cook them and ate them. So, I'm not, you know, we can't kill the animals type person. But the amount of gun violence in the

United States, when you look at the graphs, like perund, the United States is up here. Next country is like down >> Well, that so this >> it's so out of control. >> It's out of control. And this is what I'm getting at. And this is a really weird deep conspiratorial thread of which we've, you know, developed a few here. But but it seems like the things Jolly West are involved with. And this cuts to Tom O'Neal's uh thesis with >> is the construction of somebody like a

Manson because he looked and talked and walked like a hippie >> when counterculture was at its greatest threat to again people like Jad Garoover who were running the FBI at the time >> the state department. >> These guys were a little bit straight. >> What's that? >> They were a little bit straight. >> What do you mean >> Joover? I mean, they weren't hippies. >> They were straight guys. >> Oh, that exact. Well, speaking of the, you know, kind of uh proverbial, you >> he wasn't exactly totally straight.

>> Well, he was a cross, he was into crossdressing and they had all this compliment on him. I know. Yeah. >> Well, it's always it's always this sort of narcissism of small differences weird thing going on. >> So, but the point like he had it out for counterculture, right? And so this is what Tom O'Neal concludes in his book is they're going to construct somebody that looks like a hippie in Charles Manson who literally had he was like this wannabe artist. He has a song called Look at Your Game girl. He's living with the Beach Boys. And then um you have you

know uh uh this you know famous quote by Joan Ddian right after the murders saying you know August I think it was 8th 1968 was the you know the day that the or maybe 1969 I don't remember was the day that the 60s ended the day that he you know committed the murders the next day the 60s ended counterculture hippie culture all that stuff's over so the threat is over if you're you know part of the establishment structure >> and so you have to wonder You know, again with this connection with Charlton

H and gun violence, was Jolly West specifically stoking symbolic violence, violence where you were creating local violence in order to move society in a specific teology. Like if you look at certain violent things that happen now, they get amplified so much across social media, right? Whether it's Kyle Writtenhouse on the right or George Floyd on the left, I'm not making a comment on either of

those things. It's not something I want to weigh into like both both, you know, kind of >> there's a very curious thing with George >> Obviously not a good guy. >> Obviously didn't deserve to die. >> It didn't deserve to die. >> Maybe was killed by the police officer, but he was cranked up on Coke and had heart condition. >> Sure. And but we should say it was a it was a horrific video and and it would get any reasonable person whed up. Yeah. >> So but why select him as the poster

He's for a documented fact held a pistol to a black pregnant woman's abdomen while robbing our house. We want that guy to be our hero. There are all sorts >> So, is that chosen on purpose to set up the counter argument that he's a no good bad guy or they just overlook it or how does that operate? >> Well, this is the thing. I think in either of those cases or you could you come up with a million different examples of like public violence

um you know, violence that gets amplified across social media. Again, not making a comment on, you know, you could go get in all sorts of like deep arguments as to, you know, who's the guy who's like, you know, I can't breathe and he was being choked out, you know, in Brooklyn. >> Clearly, it's way past time. >> There there's all sorts of police malfeasants in these cases. But >> I think if you're intel and you're viewing uh the effect of symbolic violence, there's something there's something very powerful about that. And it's very powerful if you want to sway

things on particular issues. And so I think the public should just be aware and not susceptible to uh the the sort of you know artificial construction of some of these violent cases. >> Good luck on that one. >> I know. Yeah. >> So here's a little slightly related. >> We're saying all these things and then it's like we're we're trending in the complete wrong direction as a society as far as our ability to make sense of any of these things. Like you go on Twitter or Tik Tok or Instagram and people's brains are being melted by this stuff.

Debate now means shouting your feelings really loudly. >> That's right. So it Yeah. It almost makes me feel like >> because So do you ever feel in danger talking about this stuff? Like >> I did a little bit way back but then nothing happened. So okay, >> why am I sweating a couple decades >> Yeah. So it's been a story of my podcasting career. I'm like really I can say that? Okay, cool. >> So far >> don't come on. Have you ever encountered MK Ultra being used in the context of

spooky science? So I think of if you had a modern Manhattan project. So spooky science means >> means classified science or science that you know maybe would lead to it's low barrier to entry and very destructive >> or um >> but we're talking actual engineering not >> confer a tactical advantage you know in aerospace or weaponry or anything like that because I think of >> we talked about the Manhattan project for a second if you had any sort of

modern equivalent of the Manhattan project and you were working on something really sensitive. >> You might implant one of the scientists with a chip or tell them to drink a drink or something and then you'd have like a shutdown switch if they ever, you know, got lost in foreign territory. I mean, this is really dark stuff. But have you ever encountered anything like that or? >> Um, let's get into lighter territory because this is a I'm officially really spooked. This is a great book. This is

the the >> So, so far we've done mostly this book and a little bit this book. Now we're going to do that book. >> Now we're going to do this book, The Human Energy Field, >> What inspired you to write this? And what's the basic thesis? >> Uh, so I'm a hardcore scientist, right? >> Mainstream. No flaky stuff at all. >> No, you're right down the middle. >> Here comes the the mainstream, not flaky >> Yeah. So, I'm in uh England in ' 67 and I just remember not particularly

thinking about the topic. Uh Nodding Gate is right at the corner of a big park and I'm just walking into the park and all of a sudden I see a cone of light that comes out of my eyes. It's about 25 30 feet away. Diameter is about like this. And as I move my gaze, it moves up onto the back of a person. Then it dissolves. So what the hell? Hadn't taken any LSD that day. So I just stored that

experience instead of oh that's stupid. And then that made me think about the sense of being stared at which is very common experience. And then uh >> it's called you know there's a word for it scopesthesia. >> I watched you talking to the >> Rupert Sheldrick. >> Rupert Sheldrick. That's right. >> And I've read his book, so I'm aware of >> So, uh, cuz you got to make it sound scientific, right? >> Scopesthesia. Yeah. You got >> We're not fooling around here. >> Yeah. Make it sound official, >> So, which is good strategy. I agree with

it. So, then >> So, the sense of being stared at. Uh, and then I started to actually for some reason was more in Italy when I was traveling in Italy. I remember one time in particular, I could actually feel the spot on the side of my face that was being stared at when I turn around and look at the person that's staring right at me. >> And then I had another experience of which is common. I'm looking through the window. So this energy goes through

glass at a nicel looking Italian woman walking down the street. She turns and looks right at me. There's a look of mutual recognition and then it's like, huh? So that's a very common experience that a lot of people have had. Right? So then I go I'm not going to just blow that off and say it's which mainstream quote science people say it's misperception. It's an illusion. It's not real because there's two theories. There's intrammission which is light comes into your eyes goes your retina back to your

brain. That's clearly real. And then ext Going all the way back to John Lock. It's just forbidden. It's not possible. And that dominates academia today. So I go, "Yeah, maybe not. Something's got to be coming out here for you to sense somebody staring at you." So that's kind of what got me off on this. And then it was a spiritual,

anthropological, philosophical reading, walking around in the woods in England, in the bush in Canada, sensing energy fields. One time or 71, we've got a cabin in the woods in eastern Manitoba. So I was out there with my shotgun hunting rabbit and all of a sudden I go I could actually feel the stare of the rabbit and feel it was rabbit like energy. Turned around, shot

it, ate it that evening. So that makes me think, hm, there's survival advantage to being able to sense stare. And then that made me think, well, if you're a gazelle out in Africa somewhere and you can sense the predator staring at you and you feel uneasy and you take off, that's going to be selected for over evolution. It's a good survival skill. And so I'm thinking along those lines and then I go, well, okay, that's nice, but how are we going to study this

So Rupert Sheldrick talks about morphic fields, right? But what are morphic fields? like how do you measure them? It doesn't lead to a natural experiment. So then I just went uh we know for a fact that every atom every everything in the universe emits electromagnetic field and then inside there's the strong nuclear force and the weak nuclear force and then gravity's in there somehow but who knows how. So it's it's just basic physics, right? So

then I go, okay, I'm how am I going to be able to marry eastern and western medicine? I'm going to say that energy, the spirit, the whatever, the whatever, and the electromagnetic field of the body are the same thing, just looked at through different lenses. If you look through this lens, it's all spiritual, mystical, you can't study it. It's outside science. But if you look at it through ah it's electromagnetic energy. We can measure that. So you put

20 electrodes on your brain, you measure your EEG. You put 12 electrodes here, you measure your EKG. So we're already measuring the electromagnetic field of the body for diagnostic and treatment purposes. It's mainstream science. Nothing wacky about it at all. So the human body only has two parts, the brain and the heart. There's only brain disease and heart disease. That's Well, so the whole human body is emitting information of probable high

level medical relevance all the time. Why aren't we measuring that? So then um I published a paper in a uh pretty obscure electrical engineering journal where um a guy got these guys to sort of weld together a normal electrode that you put in mice's brains to measure stuff and suspended in front of my eye so it's not touching my body at all. I've got ski goggles where I took out

this side so I can actually see out. This side is covered with tin foil and copper mesh that I got at Target. So, it's high level science. U but that's very good electromagnetic insulation. Then there's another electrode hanging out in front just in space. And then there's the 20 normal EEG leads and these two frontal leads here. You can see the squiggly lines like normal EG. So here's the two frontal leads. Here's the lead in front of my eye. no physical

contact with my body. Here's a control lead that's just showing background it's a completely physiological real signal that's been picked up in front of your eye. >> It looks very similar to the electrode readings here. So I mean the whole world hasn't said good job. We know that extra mission is real now cuz you still have to say does it have any uh physiological or ecological function and how far does it propagate

out into space? Turns out that uh it's an inverse square law shows that signals drop off really fast. But extra low frequency like brain wave level propagates because if you figure the the wave like is so huge it's not going to drop off and it doesn't drop off and published in mainstream journals for thousands of kilometers. >> The signal intensity doesn't drop off. >> So it's perfectly realistically possible

that you know from here to the gazelle it's still a strong signal. So then I go into the anthropology of it. Well, what about uh the sense of being stared at, but there in Italy these people are called jettiator. So they jet the evil eye out of their eye. There's evil eye beliefs all around the world, right? And you can cause evil eye sickness by staring at a person if you're a jediator who's got bad energy. So like, okay, so

there's all kinds of cultural precedents for this. What if it like 80% of that superstition? I don't care. My thesis is there's a core real electrophysiological signal there that can be investigated. >> That's fascinating. So, you have the And what's really crazy is you said ELF uh extremely low frequency. Andre Puharic, who isn't in some of the documentation that you went through for CIA doctors, but you're aware of him. >> He was fascinated by ELF waves,

>> right? and thought that that was kind of the signal for consciousness, >> And that was I think the more kind of shut down part of part of his work. So what are you saying is uh evidence for extrammission? This idea that the what are you saying that that the eyes emit photons or electrons or what specifically or or ELF waves? >> So your brain emits brain waves which we measure by putting electrodes on your >> and we have to do uh a little contact pace there just to get a good contact.

Otherwise there's too much noise. So these which I mentioned before before we started recording these electrical engineers mainstream grant-f funded mainstream publications they can take a normal clinical EKG from a meter away with no contact with the body. >> So these signals for sure propagating out into space. If they go a meter because it's ELF the ELF component is going way the heck out there. We know for a fact, proven, no doubt. And me with my one little paper of proven it's

coming out of your eye. So there's all these brain waves going on. They got to get through your skull to get to the electrode. Oh, they don't have to go through your skull to come out your eye. The optic nerve is this giant electrical cable literally right there. and just the geometry of the skull and focus probably the signal is going to be stronger coming out of your eye. >> Oh, it's so wild. And it >> but it's completely scientifically testable and scientifically plausible.

It's not mysticism. >> So, that's what I'm trying to do is take all this stuff and transform it into very specified ways this could be tested. Um, which by the way, I would like some financial help with that from somebody, some kind person somewhere. >> Yeah. Um, and so this is electro It looks like from a little bit I've looked into it, probably an antenna technology is better. There's very high uh antenna that exist and you can buy

them online. So whether it's electrode or antenna, start uh measuring these So, for the eye part of it, which I'm just it's kind of my personal hobby horse because I've already been ridiculed in public for talking about told me you can't call it the human eyebeam if you're going to publish it. So, it's human ocular extra mission. >> That sounds way more professional. Is does it decay at all? So, I think of a

normal electromagnetic wave as decaying at 1 / r 2. So one over distance life doesn't decay like that. >> What does it decay like? >> I don't know for sure but minimally for literally hundreds of kilometers. >> So if I'm just thinking about a thing is the idea that I somehow know how to like when I'm when I'm imprinted when I'm literally just thinking of something. I'm conjuring it up in my mind. Am I affecting it somehow in this model via these ELF waves that

>> geollocate it and literally reach it like a physical wave comes out of my brain or eyes? >> The whole body actually >> whole body and reaches this object >> transmitter is the solar plexus in my >> Okay. But but is a wave emitting from my body and reaching something that is geolloc and tempor temporally located in our time space because I think of consciousness like if you have a mental image of something I don't necessarily translate that as

like you are beaming a thing at it or do you think you are with these ELF waves? >> Well, we're back to yes, no, maybe. So that's why like the starting point. So my effort is to boil it down to actually testable stuff. >> And you got to start here before you go way out here, right? >> So what would be the next test you would >> Uh develop a high high sensitivity electrode. I would just that you can't repeatedly affect an

object or a person who's across some sort of, you know, totally electromagnetic shielding Faraday >> And if you if I and I know these experiments have been done, how put off did experiments like this with Ingo Swan. It's part of Stargate, the official CIA psychic expire. >> Sheldrick's looked into that too, right? He's looked into this, but I my understanding is it's like it's replicable and it's real. It's a real >> but that you can't do it every single time and you can't detect like an exact

ELF wave every time. I mean, maybe they just haven't studied the ELF component and it is literally a wave, but somehow my instinct is that it's more complicated than some frequency we're missing. Like my guess is over the last 50 plus years of study in parasychology with the benefit of information technology and chips and receivers and radio tech >> that someone must have done this experiment at some point and picked up >> it's classified. >> Do you think so? >> Yeah. There's again it's back to the

military intelligence community and whoever all the big companies would be negligent if they weren't trying to investigate this, tap into it, figure out what to do with it? >> I agree. But do you think you can repeatably pick up? So you think ELF waves explain all psychic phenomena? >> Nothing explains all of everything. So I'm just saying what can we actually measure now with our current technology? >> Sure. and publish in a mainstream journal and everybody's going to go said something stared at has just been

proven. What do what do we know about the skin? >> What happens if you stay out in the sun too long? >> Get burned. Ultraviolet radiation >> causes the burn. >> What type of radiation is that? >> It's electromagnetic. It's um >> how do we synthesize vitamin D? >> Photons hit our skin. That's right. They're captured. They drive biological How do we see? So your body is already capturing photons and using them to

drive very well organized life essententral processes all the time. So there's nothing. It's just again right in the middle of common sense and science. So there's these sub threshold uh rays that I happen to glimpse a few that they're just sub threshold. Doesn't mean they're not real. You know what I think you should invent? >> So, people have been experimenting with electromagnetic healing modalities for a long time. You have royal refe.

>> We'll get we'll get there. >> I'm just building the core of the territory and then >> it I'll I'll defend you and say that this is a fact. The voltage gated ion channels is how cells communicate. Differentials of the potential between, you know, within the cell membrane and without the, you know, outside of the cell membrane. when it comes to you know things like sodium potassium is how cells communicate local electromagnetic fields affect those differentials affect the communication there studies going back to the 70s there's a guy Gary

Becker wrote a great book called the body electric where >> great book yeah >> great book you can essentially charge the severed you know um arm of a tadpole cut off its arm charge it electromagnetically >> salamander He did too. >> Salamanders. You can cut off their arm and they regrow it themselves. >> You regrow it themselves. But you can regrow, you can create a two-headed salamander, two-headed tadpole also with basically just taking the, you know, uh,

the gradient, the ion gradients of the, uh, head cells and then applying it to that stub of an arm that you cut off. So, you end up with these, I mean, there's literally a guy at TUS right now named Michael Leven who's doing limb regeneration based on this stuff. It's really wild. >> It's all coming. >> It's all coming. Absolutely. So, for people who are saying this is quack science, no, it's absolutely real. So, here's what I think you should do. >> Um, so Royal Refe, >> Who was actually involved? Oh, >> I'm aware of him. Yeah. >> Yeah. You're aware of him. So, he was

involved in some not so savory research per what we were talking about in at Plum Island and you know where where probably the modern version of Lyme disease came from. Speaking of >> Yeah, I've heard about that. Yeah. >> Yeah. Pretty interesting. Um but he had this thing called a rife machine which if you ask a Lyme disease patient to this day ironically uh this is the thing that works for them. It it came from this guy Royal Refe uh and it works on the electromagnetic field from the of the body and it essentially is like a it's a horseshoe. It's a copper horseshoe looks

like basically a Tesla coil right >> and it seems to tune the body in this really healing way. There's another company called Amp Coil which makes things around this area. I've used an amp coil before. >> It's called a Tesla coil. >> It's it's it's a Tesla coil. >> Some guy around here who makes Tesla >> Elon Musk. >> We should get him involved >> possibly. Although >> tricky to get his attention. >> Yeah. I don't know. But um so I think if there's a whole pmic on Elon working on

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> I don't know. Yeah. But >> I'm aware. >> Yeah. Yeah. You're aware. So um if you think of the body as you can turn molecular mass into frequency and every organ or every part of the body should be operating at some optimum frequency. >> Again not quacky to say there's a field called simatics. >> When the frequency goes to zero we know it's game over. >> We know it's game over. And there's a field called simatics where you can put sand on a vibrational plate and create structures deliberately with frequency

and acoustics. And so we know that this is not pseudocience, >> right? Right. >> So what if you created some sort of just like we, you know, you can bank uh stem cells or blood cord uh as if you're, you know, a baby or whatever and then you do an autotogus stem cell transfer later in life if you have some sort of malady and it can really help you. >> Can I tell you a secret about doctors? >> They use long words you don't understand to sound smarter. >> I know. Sorry for using the word autotogus. It's just your own stem cells

is what I'm saying where you don't have an immune reaction due to transferring >> My point is what if you could figure out >> there was like an optimum frequency at which your organs or body was op could operate at >> you could then create sort of a bank of you know what what is optimum health for your organs. You could also do that across a large cohort >> and then you could create essentially a tuning fork for the human body. And if you think about acoustics and physics

and electromagnetics, they exist upstream of biochemistry. Biochemistry is, you know, one layer up on the stack. >> Do you want to know the caveman version of that technology? >> Tell me. Yeah. >> What do you put in a person's chest when they've got atrial fibrillation? A >> A pacemaker. Exactly. >> We're already doing it. >> Can't walk through an X-ray cuz it'll >> primitive level. >> We are. No, we are. Exactly. We are. We know that the body is Yeah. And what is a defibrillator at all? It is it's a way to electrically jump start the body. So

created this sort of generator that could like take that out like this literally this thing that could tune your body. How amazing would that be? >> you should create it. >> Thank you. >> You should get me some money. I'm giving you the idea and getting you the money. >> Well, what else you got to do today? >> I think Okay, fine. I'll own 90% of the company then. >> I might have to negotiate on that. >> Okay. All right. We'll figure it out. so, well, this is all where my thinking

is heading. And it's all there's a TV show and a couple of movies called Star Trek. >> There's Dr. Bones. >> because you use this antenna. Okay. So >> interested about the I-beam but interested in the whole body and then you can have an array of these either electrodes or antenna whatever kind of sensors it is and you lie the person

down and you can have just handheld single version and you can scan around. You can have a like a mamogram X-ray type thing or you can have like an MRI machine would lie in there. You have a ray of these electrodes and you just measure and all the frequencies are coming out of the whole body in all the different locations and can you spot disease at the electromagnetic level before it trickles down to the biological level?

>> Probably. probably or you just do the scan. So, it's not like an MRI. You're not putting any radiation into the person or CT scan or anything. You're just measuring what comes out. So, it's no more noxious than taking a photograph of somebody. There's no side effects at all. >> And then, okay, just what you've been saying, okay, here's the abnormality that we've measured and we've got, you know, all the norms and all the charts and all the different diseases all mapped out. what energy are we going to put back in to normalize this?

>> Exactly. So, it's a whole electromagnetic medicine. And then uh I remember talking to a guy uh at a sort of a dinner get together was talking about sort of this kind of stuff and and I was getting on saying to him, "Yeah, well satellites now they can read X-rays from the sky." And this guy's a military guy and he sort of scoffs at me and surprised me with his reactions. License plate. They can count the hair on a

fly's butt. So, I mean, the resolution is incredible, right? So, if I've got a little lines here, it's called a I've got an iris here. I've got DNA in here. These are all identifying features of me, right? So maybe everybody has an electromagnetic specific signature to themselves which maybe you could track from way up there. So then really there's funny side story about

that too. uh a book about Osama bin Laden uh was uh obviously anti-FBI pro-CIA kind of perspective and they're making fun of um this you know guys in the FBI CIA they're stumbling and bumbling around they can't find him anywhere and oh we just missed our opportunity he was at uh Saudi Arabia I think it was one of those gettogethers where they'll have their falcons and they're hunting and stuff and he was there and they knew who was

there and they were monitoring from a drone or satellite or whatever and then they he just slipped out. We didn't notice him leaving and that's why we didn't get him that year. It's the most ridiculous preposterous story ever. What do you mean? You're surveying like all the time. What you mean the tape changed? You the minute was missing from when Bin Laden left. So we we were obviously able to

any individual we want just optically. So now it could track electromagnetically. So we have that technology. How come we have all these missing children? We have no idea where they are. So there's some big block to getting that operational so we could find all these people and arrest all these guys. >> So it all now we're back into the conspiracy side of it. So what what exactly you're saying if this technology around MK Ultra is in

the black along with the electromagnetic signatures that are unique to people, we should be able to like track everybody on the planet like or some group should with sort of >> but we're already tracking with digital currency, satellite imagery. >> Telephones, emails. I mean, every single phone call, email is tracked and stored, right? So, it's just another additional part of the horrible surveillance >> Yeah, it's fantastic.

>> Well, I'm back to the light side here cuz uh my father's not that evil guy. Uh so, we're just taking mainstream medicine into the 21st century. >> We are, man. while dragging our feet on it a bit. And so then another thing would be security. So you have iris recognition. You have you you're the only person with your key. There's levels of it. Why don't we have a electromagnetic scanner that

identifies a person? Why don't we have a system where you can detect somebody approaching the building or entering the building electromagnetically? >> Let's not let's not do any of that. Let's do the healing thing first. >> I'm just saying this is part of the sales pitch, right? >> There's so many applications then uh in >> Uh we have hydroponic gardening already, >> Yeah, sure. >> It's not that widely used. Uh we know there's some like really stupid, ridiculous people called medicine men.

>> And they like to jump around and chant and wave feathers in the air to help the crops grow. There's uh if you go back 1500 years in England, there's the maple dances, which are fertility dances in the spring. So, it's all cultures all over the place, Well, ridiculous nonsense, but they're they're having fun at the party. But what if the medicine man is emitting a

focused electromagnetic signal which I say probably coming from the solar plexus that actually enhances ger So now we go to the hydroponic garden. We measure what it is that's coming out of the medicine man's body. We imitate that frequency with an emitter. We expose the hydroponent garden to it. We have the control garden. What's the germination rate? >> It's totally researchable. >> Well, like Tesla said, it's all

>> And Dr. Colin Ross, I really appreciate this. I'm glad we ended on this positive note of fertilizing the world, healing people. Uh because we just covered a lot of dark [ __ ] to be honest. True. >> And um but it's dark stuff that really needs to be exposed and uh you really helped uh put it to the light. And so I don't really know what you do with this. I think it's just be aware of all the weird malfeasants when it comes to intel on this stuff historically and you know maybe we can get some good investigative journalism as to what's happening today.

And uh really appreciate you coming by man. It was a lot of fun. >> Sure. Thanks for the invite.