My Joe Rogan Appearance: What I Learned (ft. Young Jamie & Viktor Hovland)

special show for you today. Apparently, dreams do come true. I achieved one of mine when I went on the Joe Rogan Experience. The episode is live today. I don't really get nervous for anything, but I was pretty nervous for this. I've been a super fan of Joe's show for the last decade and so it was tough to contain myself and lay low when leading up to the episode. He had been texting me talking about binging our show American Alchemy and loving it. Joe is a hero of mine. I think he's a strong force for good and free thought and he

showed a ton of courage under fire during the pandemic. So saying that this was an honor would be a massive understatement. On the show we talk about all sorts of crazy from artificial intelligence. It doesn't matter whether AGI, you know, hits some like perfectly touring passable point. You're going to get this like these weird cultlike dynamics like the meta sociological thing is you're going to get like religions dedicated to AI. Oh, for sure. Oh, for sure. There without a doubt there'll be people worshiping certain branches of AI.

It's a secret science and I think there is technology that is black technology and science that is black science and then I think there's stuff out in the open. And so I think this has already maybe happened in certain contexts and you know super secret department of energy facilities which I think it's crazy to say that that hasn't happened. You're saying that it only happened with the Manhattan project and it hasn't happened since. That's insane. There is black science to exotic propulsion. Gravity is out here hanging out by itself on an island. So you have the standard model quantum field theory and you have Einstein's theory of gravity.

overly sensationalist about this. If it's a hoax, it's the best hoax ever. And finally, the legendary Thomas Towns and Brown. Towns and Brown's biographer has him on record in a in a phone call that is recorded saying the tests were very tricky, but in the end, we got it to work and he's on his deathbed. But before you go and watch that, just wait a second. We have a very special episode for you today. Before going on Joe's show, I had already been friends with his producer, Young Jamie. Jaime is an awesome guy. He knows a ton about UFOs

and is down some pretty crazy rabbit holes, so naturally we hit it off. He's also a huge golf fan. Serendipitously, one of the best golfers in the world, Victor Havlin, reached out to me last year because he's a huge fan of American Alchemy and happened to be coming to Austin in late April. Victor is the absolute man. Outside of being a top 10 golfer in the world, the sensation from Norway is humble, down to earth, and super smart. In his spare time, he's reading Plato and learning about UFOs. Let's all root for him in the US Open

this month. So, Jamie, Victor, and I did a little golfing at Barton Pitch and Putt when Victor was in town. They watched me absolutely embarrass myself as we discuss a bunch of trippy fun topics. Without further ado, please enjoy this week's amazing American Alchemists, Jamie Vernon and Victor Havlin. Oh, and one more thing. We just launched maybe the coolest merch line ever, which I'll link in the description. I mean, just look at these designs. We have our cowboy UFO tee and our atomic space age tee. So, go grab

those and watch my episode with Joe Rogan, but not before watching this amazing special episode of American What got you into UFOs? Dude, it's cool. Yeah. [laughter] Oh, no. There's like a lot of evidence there crashes and that they [music] have anomalous stuff. How much and how deep it goes is kind of the question. What's the deal about the the pyramids? What was I doing wrong before? Like I'd hit it. Where do we start? [laughter] Summon [music] the egg. Summon the egg. Multiple different factions.

He has some conspiracy theories. Okay. I don't even know if they're conspiracies. [laughter] Never thought about it until right now. I might want to pull up my phone. Pull it up, Jamie. [laughter] that I'm going to ask you for any tips, but I'm I'm in a driver only right now. I'll take a look, bro. I might go till I run out of balls cuz I know I'm going to whack it [music] into weird places. No, you're fine. This is sweet. All right. Who's first?

You're going first. [laughter] You want to send it? That's too hard. Not bad. That's fine. There you go. Just hit the shell first and we'll see what we got. Okay. Yeah, man. Not working with much. to run right down there. That's it. What got you into UFOs? Obviously, those um videos that were released or leaked from the Pentagon that came out

Especially when a lot of their um stories like corroborate each other. Yeah. you start to hear about the case in Virginia or um Bib Grush mentioned in 1933 it was in Italy. It's long been known that the regime of dictator Benito Mussolini documented numerous UAP during this time. This internal memo from the Italian secret services includes crude drawings of the UAPs. It's true. It's real.

Yeah, that actually happened. Italian government moved it to a secure air base in Italy for the the rest of kind of the fascist regime until 1944 1945 and you know the Pope Pius the 12th backchanneled that. So the Vatican was involved. Yeah. And told the Americans what the Italians had and and we ended up scooping it. There's so many places where it's happened all over the world. 46 in Sweden they had ghost rockets which looked like modified V2s and Eisenhower sent General James Dittle out there to

investigate and there were like over a thousand of these like V2 rockets that seem to like be able to move and and traverse in ways that like V2s would generally just you know they wouldn't steer themselves that much or whatever and they would go like way faster than V2s and so nobody knows like what those are and I don't know I guess I think Sweden itself has like a lot of UF UFOs or they have like a big UFO contingency and there's like an astronomer there named Beatatric Valale who's big in this stuff. But I don't know. I don't know that. It just seems like

everywhere else outside of the US the governments are like they're it's easier for them to kind of keep that information on the down low versus here in the United States there's so many people who are anti-governor government and kind of think for themselves a little bit. So they push the narratives out there. Um, but it is so frustrating because you don't really have anything concrete and like hard evidence yet. Even though there seems to be so much out there coming from your videos and

like the deep dives that you do, it's it's unbelievable. And you want it to be like you just want to have something you want to believe. But it's hard to just go like full deep into it until you have, you know, something concrete. But hopefully that's going to come soon. You're the youngest in the top 10. I might be. I don't know to be honest. I thought you were. You thought you How old are you? 20. You're 25. Uh 27.

Sit, dude. [cheering] Damn. Just hitting everything far. See Anderil moved to Ohio. Yeah. Like we tech the giant spot there for sure. Yeah, the intel plant there is a little bit of a situation right now, but um they have quite a few data centers. I guess there's like uh it's specifically because there's like no seismic activity. Like no fracking, no other things going So obviously important, but There's also other stuff in that Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like what

I mean it's not a giant state. So Jamie's from um Ohio, Columbus, Ohio. Battel Memorial Institute and Battel manages all the nuclear sites across the US. It's also very close to Wright a lot of stuff has happened there supposedly at least. So, he has some conspiracy theories. Okay. I don't even know if they're conspiracies. [laughter] Just truth. Kick up there.

Yeah. Nice shot, Jamie. No. It's all right. [laughter] Whacking old lady. I know they're just there people all the time. [laughter] what's coming up now for for you? What do you got planned? Um, so going to Mexico and Peru. Um, and then doing this I I interviewed these Skywatcher guys. I was just talking to Jamie about it. Have you seen these guys? They like Sky Watchers? No. They like claim to have this thing called a dog

whistle, which is this frequency and that attract that attracts UFOs like 100% of the time and they have sensors and they like pick up a lot of weird stuff and So, I want to see what's up. Wow. Okay. Even more effective than the C5. Yeah. Well, they also have that. They also have like um psychic like they call them neuritators or whatever and they like try to summon UAP. and Jake Jo he was this guy he had a start for four years and then Jake Barber when he came out joined him and

they had like eight classes of UAP and then he he joined and they're adding the egg is the ninth and they're trying to get the egg which Jake retrieved or whatever in the mid 2000s to like come and like to summon the egg summon the egg. Okay. Yeah. Wow. And like do it in front of everybody which obviously if they do that that's Yeah. That's got to be some of the guys that should be next up if everybody can do that. On tape, please. Yeah. Yeah. On tape. All right. Damn. That's That's cool. Where where they at? It's a bold uh It's a mobile uh like

sensor unit, so they can set up but they did operations in Palmdale and then Finley the Finley Mountain Range. Okay. Uh in East Texas or West Texas actually. Um, which is a critique of theirs is people are like, "Oh, it's next to like sensitive sites." So, it could be like, you know, but it's not their [clears throat] north or or no, it could be like stuff like spoofing them or could be done in conjunction with them, you know. Yeah. It's a bold claim. Interesting. No, that's cool. That's

worth some followup. Yeah, for sure. Go in. Oh, going to give myself Yeah, exactly. No, put on the hill. [music] All right. A It's just pathetic. There we go.

You don't have to name any names, but do you talk about this stuff on tour at all with anybody? Uh people look at me pretty crazy when I when I came out everyone was like what Victor are you okay pretty much pretty much I feel like you're good at spinning the questions that you get back to golf you're like yeah it's like you can't be dogmatic with your golf swing either but it but it's so true though it's like in everything in life obviously I was trying to connect it together but it's you you have to question everything and

in doing so you find that either you get rid of the beliefs that you have or you believe in the things you believe in even more deeply. So it's like I think it's good to just be open-minded and ask a bunch of questions especially to that topic that you're involved in. It's like you spend more time researching it, you just get more questions and it's it's so interesting. And the implications of all of it is I mean if just objectively speaking if that's not interesting then what else is what else is interesting and nothing

else is. That's it. Looks great. [music] That could be pretty good actually. Yeah. Pretty good. This is a hard hole. Just over that. Jesse, did you see what he did? Do that. [laughter] That's not bad. Get up. What was I doing wrong before? Like I'd hit it.

Yeah, it's [music] uh Where do we start? Yeah, that's better. [cheering] There you go. [music] Partner golf. Most improved. Most improved. [laughter] It's a low bar. travel you can like see the places you go or are you like so focused?

Generally when I feel like I'm playing pretty well and I'm trying more to conserve my energy. Yeah. I like to just find a a cool spot in the town that I'm in. Or yeah, like a couple years ago I was in London and Stonehenge wasn't too far away. So, all right, let's drive an hour and a half and check out Stonehenge or Like in um Ohio or Columbus uh for that tournament. I drove to Serpent Mound. Oh, nice. There's a few things in I mean, you'll be there like a month if you're going, Yeah, there's a

didn't get anywhere if that makes sense. I mean, yeah, I just those debates aren't like usually the best debates even because they're really kind of coming in not willing I don't think most people are willing to like budge. They're coming in to like say what they had to say. Yeah, exactly. Kind of get those clips recorded and I It's not a conversation of trying to figure out what's going on. It's like my side is going to win or Yeah. It's can they just hear me say it again. Yeah. Yeah. Now they'll believe me. Yeah, exactly. And it's just two different like data

sets like like Graham has his stuff and Flint hasn't even like looked at it. And then he has some slide with two shipwrecks that like you know didn't even happen. He's got a good point like you haven't looked everywhere. It's like we haven't looked everywhere. Exactly. [laughter] Yeah. Yeah. We know. As you know, I'm always on the hunt for things that help me stay sharp, focused, and full of energy while I'm diving into life's mysteries and making this show happen. And I've got to say, Mudwater has completely transformed my

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free shipping and a free rechargeable frother when you use code Jesse. That's right, up to 43% off with code jesse at you found them. Please show your support and let them know we sent you. Keep your energy natural and refreshing all year long with Mudwater because life's too short for anything less than clean, delicious energy. What's the deal about the the pyramids? What they discovered underneath the pyramid? Is that just

like a a weird gadget that they're reading that stuff or is there actual physical structures underneath the pyramid? I guess that's what they're maybe debating. I'm a little skeptical like this. The answer is yes. Yes. What? All the above. What's your take? Have you looked into There's definitely stuff under the pyramid. That's how much and how deep it goes is kind of the question. I've heard that too, but why do you think why are you high conviction that there's stuff under the pyramid? Well, I mean just that people have like gone under it and shown it on video, I think.

Like there's like at least a chamber, but this new thing is like synthetic aperture radar, which doesn't penetrate below the ground enough to be able to like these generators at that level of granularity be able to draw them up. So, I'm skeptical of this latest like They seem very, you know, like I don't know if excited or but like very like adamant about their point like no, we did this is it. we did find this. But I don't think anyone's going to let him go dig to check either though, right? But can you not figure out a way maybe like from you you dig a hole from

I don't know half a mile away and try to get close to it. I don't I think they've people have been asking to go underneath the Sphinx for a long time and they're not letting them do They think there's stuff under the Sphinx. Well, the the minister of culture in Egypt, Zahi Haw is like has like a gatekeeper clamp down on that entire area. He said in the '9s he said there's stuff under the Sphinx and then I think they dug some really superficial thing and they're like nothing to see here and then didn't didn't like pursue it further. So I there's probably some like

you know like planned obsolescence like with like Apple products or something where it's like it's I think they I think they like to like dribble out like the reveals for like tourism and they don't like things that go against the Egyptian national pride. Like if something predates Egypt that's not They can't claim it. They can't claim it. So I think it's like too much all at once is kind of a threat to them. Do you think there's uh do you think they know kind of the the bigger history of the pyramids, but

they're not deciding to release it or is it like I don't they I don't think they fully know like but I don't know. I believe the like Graham Hancock and Robert Shock, John Anthony West theories that like limestone damage on the Sphinx shows that it predates, you know, whatever it was the the old kingdom or, you know, 5,000 years ago or whatever. And you know, maybe there was a tropical climate at that time and then maybe the feronic headdress was like retrofitted onto this like older structure. But

beyond that, I think there's decent evidence actually that the pyramids themselves were built uh during the ancient Egypt. So I I don't know. What do you think? without going Yeah, somewhere like that. I don't know. I was just trying to think in my head. Could be a silly question. I'm like, nowhere in the Bible do they talk about the pyramids, do they? But I don't I don't know. That's kind of I should probably have Google in front of me to have that kind of I don't think so. No. So, it has to be 2 to 3,000. But that's what Why wouldn't

they say it's this is speculation under Ramsy's II in Egypt. And so, but then I Yeah, I don't know if they talk about pyramids. I just I' never thought about it till right now. I might want to pull out my phone and pull it up. Chat GBT. Pull it up, Jamie. [laughter] That's mentioned in the Bible. He's like, "Fuck [laughter] you."

Go, go, go, go. Yeah. Was that um Harold Maldgrren video that you did? Was that maybe the craziest one that you've done or I think so. I kind of think so cuz it's like hard to argue with his credentials. Like they're kind of unimpeachable, you know, like I mean maybe now last they changed the Wikipedia page. It's so crazy. It's insane. They literally changed. Did you see this, Jamie? Yeah, they uh they literally changed him from

like top presidential aid uh you know JFK LBJ Nixon Ford to like American writer and lobbyist and said he was like part of the Japanese whailing lobby and like and then involved, you know, involved in some other scandal or what. It's insane. And if you hear him speak like to any discerning person, you're he was an extremely like elite player in politics. like you just know, you hear how sophisticated he is. It's just insane. But um so yeah, I

think I think so. Like I I thought about it after that and I'm like how much deeper can you get without like unveiling a saucer in a hanger, you Yeah. Yeah. And I could I I don't have the knowledge that you do, but I could see that in that interview as he's talking, you're just like making all these connections like with certain things that he's saying and the people that he's been around. It was like it was just pretty cool to watch from like an outsers's perspective. I was like, "What the fuck?" Like he the magenta thing.

Yeah. What else did Richard Bissell tell He said this didn't start last week. This has been going on. He mentioned that 1933 He did. Richard Bissell mentioned the 1933 magenta crash. That's amazing. That is such corroboration cuz that is a highly conflicted, you know, account. 1933 was the first recovery in Europe in uh Magenta, Italy. I fully trust David Grush, but that's

wow and his voice is not good And so he said that on the phone to me and if I had more time with him I would have asked him a hundred questions about So he could have been using that in its counter intel context like just referring to some group but like he didn't want to say the name of the group or whatever. So it's just it's hard to say on some of the stuff like I wish I had more more time with him but but still like and and the fact that they changed his Wikipedia right after like that makes you pretty conspiratorial when you see

stuff like that. I mean, like, why would you do that? For no other reason than to discredit what the man said. Totally. You can come up with these like meta games that they could be playing where it's like they want to show he's credible by by like faking some detraction on it, but it's it's crazy. At a certain point, you're like, I think the guy you just take it at face value or whatever. And then there are other things like he's at the end of his life and like you don't always remember everything perfectly correctly but like I don't know if you add up the fact that

maybe they know something that most people don't. Yeah. Like why are him and like Elon out there shooting chemical rockets into space. Like if they have more advanced technology or crafts, like why are they pushing it in that direction? Yeah. I I think about this a lot and like I I think if they do have stuff, which I do think they have stuff, I don't think they know how to use it. And I think if there are SCOPs, it's like convincing people they do or something. It's like softening the enemy I wouldn't imagine they test that like

every week or every night. They might be like every six months like, "All right, we've got a test. Everybody's in place. We're going to do it at like 3:00 a.m. to 5:30 a.m. Yeah. and we'll get back next week and we'll see. Oh they saw it. Ah, [laughter] no. No. Delete. Like what's supposed to happen? How' they see it? Who saw it? Now let's pivot in this direction. Yeah. All right, stop. We have to three months later we have to take a break. That's also a little bit too extreme, too. Like it can't just be that either. but the like the only You don't have a

ton of evidence that they know how to use this stuff. It's like Bob Lazar, Dan Berish, you have like a few possible data points and then otherwise there's like I think a lot of evidence there crashes and that they have anomalous stuff and then it could be like a USB drive for like a caveman where it's like even if they know how to use it, you have no idea. Even if you know to use it doesn't mean you know how to make it or deconstruct it or recharge it, Refuel it, you know? Who know like

you have like how put offs like electrically polarized vacuum you have like a million different frameworks but I like to start cuz I'm dumb on the physics level like with the doesn't seem like it but no really like you know I could like barely keep up but like I think finding like the the like initial effect that was like an anomaly that got classified is like probably the best starting point and I think this guy Towns and Brown figured out basically a way to manipulate gravity with electromagnetism

and then a lot stems from that that's like more sophisticated. So I I like to like start there. But I don't know. I'm sure they're like way more advanced at this point. yeah, you would think so or you would hope so. I think so. And there's like I don't know like aerospace gray beards that I speak to and I bring up brown and that sort of thing. They're like, you know, we can't say but like wink wink nudge nudge like or it's the opposite where they're like bizarrely like aggressively like there's definitely nothing there. I saw your

video but there's nothing there. And it's like why are you watching my video like you're like [laughter] you're like some like wacky like exact or something. You have there's so many physicists that are talking about like okay advanced whatever technology and you can use a quantum vacuum or whatever the word that they're trying to say and then you have so many other scientists whatever the establishment that are just fully materialistic and uh any anomaly that we see is just prosaic or conventional and it's like why do you have such there's such a big divide and

u uh podcast, but I might have listened No, I'm pretty sure it was what Star Wars. Yeah, maybe I I I think so. May maybe I'm wrong, but um I I wonder if he knows a little more than he left or he said the high mesh like did you hear that high mesh? So this guy like ran the Israeli space force and he's like there's a galactic Federation and we're working with like aliens on Mar like crazy and he's like I think he knows that from his intelligence background and I'm like how would you know that?

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After you sign up, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. That would go a long way. McMonagle. Yeah, you're the CIA remote viewer. Yeah, [laughter] that was that was a wild, dude. Cuz he pulled out on your Here we All right. Aliens are coming. down. They got us [laughter] in the train. but but remote viewing millions of years ago,

But then also they say that like only 30% of what they were seeing was Yeah, for sure. And and some of the images he showed me I like debunked. Like some of them are not legit. So who's to I don't know. But the Mar the Mars thing, I think it's actually dogmatic and crazy to say 0% chance that there was life on Mars. You have the water caverns. You have the like the excess of like argon. The only thing I have I've read and I don't believe it's true is that the uh

the current rover up there wasn't equipped with anything to actually look for signs of life. It's just got like cameras and it's looking for other stuff. Like the goal wasn't to look for Interesting. For the same reason I'm I heard someone talking about the mood landing stuff again recently. I'm like you're going through this whole process and you have to also film it because no one believes you. It's kind of a tough process and thought process to get through cuz like you're doing all the have to go don't care film it. That's not my I'm here to like make sure the rocket goes and doesn't explode and we get there and we get back and these

other guys like you got to film it. No one's going to believe you. It's [laughter] a kind I'm starting to like it's a tough I still believe in the moon landing and all that but like it's still a weird thing. Like you don't believe uh Barty Cyrell or what? [laughter] Joe does. I don't even know if he does. It's just a fun conversation to have. It is a fun conversation. That's really a lot of it's just fun. Joe Joe was arguing with uh who was it? Dave Smith or Well, he Joe was really into it at one And he's just back and for I think like

we've talked about like just depends on the day you wake up. You're like where am I at today? Like I'm a little more this way today. Yeah. That's so keeps it interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, Jesus. Come back. Right. We got on one green. [laughter] When's your next tournament? Next week. Oh, is it? Okay. So, you have the week off and then Yep. Go to Philadelphia and then it's

Charlotte and then to Memorial. Nice. If you want to get good at golf. Stay friends with him. [laughter] Two hidden tips. I like that. Just act like it doesn't exist. Woo. Oh, that's really good. Look at that, dude. Crazy. [music] That was insane. So, it's a 100. You have a perfect 100 shot then. Yeah. It's right in your Yeah. It was uh I had a club up for that That's needs to sit though.

Bounce right. Come on. Yeah, dude. Come on. Come on down. Oh, let's go. Come on down. Uh-oh. Get through. Where'd it go? I don't even see it. Just dropped down right down the bottom of the tree. Oh, it didn't get through. Fun day you can have. Yeah, the vibe is sweet. Good shot. [applause] Um I mean just through it was osmosis.

It would have happened eventually. Yeah, I think one of his videos I found I just found his videos and I DM' him after one of them. And then the link the real link was after Townson Brown video. I don't know if you watched that one. We were already talking and I texted him. I was like, "Are you telling me that Doc Brown had a moment of like lightning [laughter] and drove back to his lab in Pasadena and created time travel? [laughter] Sounds like Back to the Future, dude." And he was like, "Holy you're right." And then [laughter] he googled

some stuff and he got back to me was like and there's even more that you don't know. And I was like, "Okay." Oh, wow. That's weird. That's weird. Hi, Jesse. Let's go. I think Back to the Future definitely touches on some real stuff cuz when the when the Delorean comes back, it crashes and the guy has like a little com the kid has a comic book with like alien UFOs and he's like, "It has no seams, no rivets. like it must be an alien UFO or whatever and it's actually a time travel

machine. So, he's like mistaking it in real time or whatever. Oh So close. And then uh and then the guy Towns and Brown like Doc Brown is EMTT Towns and EMTT Thomas Towns and Brown. I was just with Doc Brown. That was close enough cuz driving to Pasadena which is where it took place and all that stuff which is where Towns and Brown did his experiment and it's called the flux capacitor which is Towns and Brown's experiment as a capacitor like what what do you make of that is

are they like are there like Hollywood movies is that scripted in a sort of way according to Tom Deong it's all on purpose I think I think or or is it just like the wild synchronicities of of life that simulation? Yeah, I I lean more towards that because there's so many weird ones that pop up. I don't want it. Stephen Steven Spielberg executive produced it and he that guy knows some Even if you look at Close Encounters of the Third Kind, they're two crates. Those are like the most advanced R&D programs at Locked and Northrup respectively that

would have to do with this topic. Like how would he know about that in like the late ' 80s? Like I don't know. Fed some stuff. Yeah. I don't know who made one of my favorite ones, Flight of the Navigator. I've told you about that's a Disney Yeah, I know that. But director Randall Clyer. Never heard of that name. I first met Jake Barber at Disneyland. Rand? Really? Yeah. He was there with his family and uh I drove down from LA.

interview I thought with Jake. I thought so too. Like I think it was too much for people to stomach like the psychic stuff and the UFO retrieval stuff all at once. Yeah. And the fact that he says he's handled these crafts himself like you don't hear that stuff very often. No, he definitely No, I mean it's like if that's I I don't know, you know, where to shake out there. Like I think if he's incredibly sophisticated and like so everything checks on the surface like you

it's almost like we'll never know. He's so he's so sophisticated. And if it is true, it's the tip of the spear. It's like that and Lazar and like what what's farther than that? There's an assumption that the United States government is this whole encompassing thing and they all work together and they all know everything and they got computers and they all talk on chats and emails and everybody's That can't now that's nowhere that's probably the farthest from the truth. it would have leaked. And there's multiple different factions, even within factions and factions within factions. And

maybe there's a small group of three guys that found something and stored it in a locker somewhere and like they're afraid to say what they got cuz they don't even know and it turns out and just has more. This group has 50 of them. That's what Barbara was saying with the egg. Like they might not care about the egg because they have too many. It's like what a crazy thing to say. I know. And that's what he said. I was "What did you do with it then? You just threw it back like dropped it off in the ocean? like where did it go? Just left. We're like how many do we have? And he's like who is us? He's like sure it's like all these like factions fighting against each other. I imagine if you told some there's got

to be a black market on on the darknet UFOs. What's in that box? Buy it and find out. But then how is more ubiquitous? How is it not more leaked and more Yeah. Yeah. If it's that many. No one I just back to the like it's no one knows. They don't It's hard to figure it out. you can see something and not know if you don't have the right tool to get in there, Just in egg shapes. Yeah. If you find an iPhone in 100 but it can't be but there should be more concrete like evidence then I feel like everything is so much more into the

almost a theoretical like you listen to certain people and they've got this whole framework kind of figured out but nothing to kind of show for it. Yes. Unless unless you have a thousand if you have over a thousand of the eggs or whatever then one of them is going to leak. It just will in the modern day you know so it has to be like less than that and yeah there is this whole like theoretical ontology around a thing that we don't even know. We don't even know. Yeah. [laughter] It's just like crazy to speculate and and like I think a lot of the ontology

kind of makes sense. Um when you kind when you listen to people explain it like that. But again, you got to have something concrete to show for it. For sure. It also could like be a bunch of different things. Like the things you're summoning or the things that show up around nukes that like look like blobby like lights or whatever aren't the saucers in, you know, locked hangingers or whatever. Like those could be two fundamentally different things. So, it's just hard to say. Like could be like a zoo of like there's just like the

spooky science world. the DOE has like a lock on like a lot of it or whatever because that's where you have like the most secret of atomic stuff and then that's where you would put the most secret science. It's where we do like the most you know like intense high energy physics. Stuff. So not DARPA but like a different arm. DARPA is a part of the DOE. So, so they you you think they have just a lot of different departments kind of each specialized to particle physics to whatever the cloning DNA.

Well, they the DOE also paid for the human genome experiment. So like they like have like a lot of genomic data that you know other departments don't. They they have the the tightest security like since Los Alamos. And if you even look at like the special definition of nuclear material like in the atomic energy act of 1954, it's like anything emitting alpha beta gamma radiation is like born secret. It's like restricted upon finding it. So you could just contract out a locked or a Northrep or

whatever and if they like stumble onto a thing it's like it's like immediately and then you have these I don't know like the yeah largest particle accelerator in the US is like at Brook Haven National Labs. It's called And so a lot of the secret science stuff is going on at these DOE sites. And that M said that too. Yeah. Do you think that's just from what I've heard like um you know the technology in the iPhone, the screen, whatever um wireless um Wi-Fi, all that stuff is like kind of leaked from DARPA.

I I just heard that. Do you know have you corroborated that at all? to some extent that's 100% true and not conspiratorial like uh there's a a search engine called Menx which was pre Google that DARPA had been experimenting with you know well before Google ARPA e created the internet like Jacqu Valet who's actually a UFO pioneer was like working with Doug Engelbart on like the earliest part of the internet in like the 70s. Wow. Okay. any uh people from like Lockheed or Northrup or uh any of those

companies that you have a chance to maybe um interview and like see from that angle cuz most of it I feel like you're coming or there's a guy I met from Skunk Works who's like really smart doesn't believe in you he thinks like the UFO stuff is kind of he believes in UFOs like in the ephemeral like you see side or you see them, you know, like, you know, around like nuclear sites or whatever. Okay. But I don't think he thinks that's the

same thing as like he thinks it's just human tech like at Locked and other And so, [clears throat] but he works for Skunk Works. He used to used to. Yeah. For like but like for like 30 Okay. And he but he's he's kind of trippy and he believes in a lot of like I think he thinks that we've made a lot of progress on a lot of like secret tech after he left Lockheed or or no like even while he was there but like he kind of hints at stuff like you can't always like you know what's up guys I want to tell you about my new favorite

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No, I mean, I might not know more than you. you know, [laughter] it's fascinating to talk about. So, it it definitely is. And I think I think there's gonna be a lot of momentum in this world [music] for like the next I just I feel like it's in the zeitgeist. Like there's so much even if it's like a vague sense that [music] there's just I don't know. Like you asked me this, you were like uh what if the UFOs just like don't go anywhere? And I'm like I I just don't think that's going to be the case. And that was like 6 months ago. Yeah. Yeah. I would I would believe that it's

[music] going to like keep keep growing. Take off. Yeah. Get your You do a fake walk off or just take off? You see me drive away.