Meet the Navy Scientist With UFO Patents (Ft. Salvatore Pais)

complex [music] of problems has the simplest of solution depending on perspective. When I saw that thing open up, I saw the pis effect man. This is the pis effect. I'm gone. So we talk about artificial long time coming because I've consumed a

are you wearing? First off, thought I'd uh give a little props to uh a very successful organization uh aonomously known as Skunk Works. So, thank you for your service. There you go. And we have a amazing Navy scientist who has sent shock waves in kind of UFO world. It's interesting in 2017 you had, you know, revelations around their the existence of UFO study groups and stuff, at OSAP, that sort of thing. But you also had these patents that were filed

level. You you able to trust me on this. I've I've seen many podcasts and you're one of the best. So, absolutely. Well, we can kudos to you, brother. Agree to disagree. But I'm I'm happy to be the last mile of uh kind of cogent distribution on deeper people like yourselves. So um do you have any kind of disclaimers at the top because you are very sensitive areas as well and I want to make sure we don't hit any trip Let me see ya right off the bat with um yes my name is Salvatore Chesar Pis. I

other words, to enlighten and educate the enemy. So certain things that I think certain subject matter that we may touch upon if it deals with certain frequency. Jack, you know this well. We keep numbers out of play and certain things that if you for example see me slip, please orient me and guide me Before we dive into today's amazing episode of American Alchemy, I want to thank Aura for being the amazing sponsor of this show. Have you ever Googled

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time for Aura to find out if any of your personal data is exposed and for you to realize that Aura is a no-brainer. As Dave Grush said, we're not here to help the adversary do their job. Mr. Grush is 100%. But simultaneous to that, it's actually a national security risk. Extremely intelligent STEM students growing up in the wrong frameworks and not being privy to any of this stuff and thinking it's all quackery. That seems like actually a matter of national security risk.

it's an absolutely broken paradigm. You're right. And uh it's something that has weedled its way inside the R&D framework of our national defense infrastructure and uh it's kneecap us from making critical advances that have national security implications. I want to start with uh kind of autobiographical because it's interesting you go on all these podcasts and we talk about the science and I want to get into the science and I think Jack can help kind of drive some of the conversation later. But who are you? Where are you from? How'd

York Reuben. Oh my god. You know, from the Brooklyn Delhi. A real Ruben, not Anyway, I'm not gonna I'm gonna keep it nice since this is a family show of Every now and then, I'll let it slip. The people that know me know that almost every other word the real Salvatore will use is the F word. So, every now like you would not believe, I can weave a tapestry of obscinity. second to none. Took that from a Christmas story, but hey, you

know, every now and then you don't have to be an original. So, uh, yeah. So, again, I was born in Romania. I came here as a young kid. I, uh, grew up in the public education system. I I went to Brooklyn, uh, in Brooklyn, uh, to one of the well-known high schools there was Brooklyn Technical High School. uh not as on the same level as Bronx High School of Science or Styes in Manhattan, but uh from a technical uh point of view

is very well known and very wellliked and um then I went to Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio. No, it's not a military school. It's actually very highly accredited. It usually makes the US News uh top 50 universities almost every year. And uh uh I I love my CW that I I would never exchange it for example going to MIT or any other school. It's just I I was brought up there and I stayed there. I

did my graduate studies there. Then I was extremely fortunate to uh to have um how should I say a job at North Gman. Well, before then I had a couple of stints in New York, Electronic Systems Associates, Cisco and Hennessy, but I was extremely fortunate to uh to work for North Groman Corporation and um Advanced Systems, Advanced Concepts and other things. And then I transitioned to

the USPTO in in um at the time was Alexandria, V, Virginia. they had moved from Crystal City and and um and then I was fortunate enough to come here Nav there and uh then uh certain things occurred and and I was fortunate to work for strategic systems programs at the Washington Navy Yard and then uh I went for the Space Force and

any documentaries or things it was a lot of things that were done by Dr. Steven Greer. And and uh a great deal of things. As a matter of fact, I I hold the man in in very high esteem. I'm I'm very that I feel it's very unfortunate that the the UFO field seems to be so divided. It's almost as divided as the country is at this point in time. And and uh I wish people were more unified. I've always

been a person that drives toward unification. Unification of concepts, ideas. You can always work things out. You can always reach a compromise. Always. And I think everybody benefits as a result. the the uh the alternative is the enemy wins. When we fight amongst each other, our strength is divided is weakened. The enemy will will always take force take strength from that. So you're watching like close encounters

Newtonian third law of action reaction can't all be Newtonian. What if there's nonnewtonian propulsion? So in other words, can we do something to the field that we operate in the gravitational field for example to make have diminished inertia? Since inertial mass and gravitational mass after all there is equivalence between them. So I have a dumb question. You publish a thing like this and it seems like pretty

well synthesized and researched. Why doesn't you know presumably there are legacy programs if you believe David Gush reverse engineering this stuff why don't they immediately kind of hit you up no idea whatsoever as a matter of fact at at one point in time I I almost expected to be contacted to me so then the idea almost occurred to me almost instantaneously that they must have this somewhere they've already sort that they have figured it out and they

already operating ing certain devices and and then I hear these things with the reverse engineering craft and then that thing bothers me because everything I've done is really based on Olive Oliver HeavyID's version of Maxwell's The four equation four unknowns that electrical engineers have have grown up to love and use. Thank God because the original were absolute trans the 21 and unusual. [clears throat]

Yeah. unusable. Yeah. Mess. Quatturnian formalism. My goodness. Yeah. So again, the genius of all of Oliver heavyside and all you do couple it with the harmonic oscillator and certain things occur based again on resonance. Resonance is extremely important because it talks to energy So you're implying that you don't believe in this or de craft hypothesis. Do you think this is all sorted man-made or do you think you've just stumbled across the same physics of operation?

I believe that there's man-made tech and there's ET tech. It's possible the ET tech was reverse engineering from gifts or craft that were found historical items. Who knows where and how? And there's another avenue, this man-made tech. Why can we have that kind of acumen? That kind of mind. You mean only these um

they call nonhuman non-human intelligence. Only NHI can have this kind of intellect. Why can we? I mean we should take pride in who we are as homo sapiens sapiens. We we we represent a certain intellect. And this is an interesting question. Are there multiple branches, multiple tech trees that could be filtering their way through the defense intelligence space? Some of them, some of them approachably nuts and boltsish from the, you know, a technology that's a couple of hundred

years more advanced than us. And then other examples that are far more exotic that when you open them up, you see nothing familiar. You see nothing Absolutely. So, in other words, there's man-made tech and ET tech and I think you can tell them apart. The one thing that struck me based on what I came to understand from the idea of the super force. If you take the gravitational field equations of Einstein, you can readily deduce that uh the super force acting on the

spatial temporal geometric structure what we understand as a quantum vacuum locally can actually give birth generate energy density. Right? This is the idea of Robert Wheeler. the notion that energy density uh determines the shape of spaceime or the shape of the quantum vacuum and the quantum vacuum determines the propagation of that energy and the super force equation which is really a a rerendering of the Einstein gravitational field equations right talks to this talks to the and then Bob Lazar

mentioned at one point that it seemed to him that the so-called sports model was as if grown out of the vacuum itself absolutely smooth like a 3D printing out of the space-time fabric itself. This the super speaks to that directly. Are you familiar with Ken Shoulders's work of exactly of exacting vacuum objects? I've heard I've I've read certain papers as well. It's very interesting this idea of the vehicle being 3D printed out of the

quantum vacuum because we can't seem to quite understand exactly because you know when you talk about chemical vapor deposition the manufacturing techniques associated with making very small nanoructured heterolatis you know my my graduate work for instance is in topological material physics and so we we do know more than is generally acknowledged about how to manufacture those lises but there is still we don't have a lot of control over where exactly the atoms go. We just spit them out and physics takes over and it deposits them

where it wants to deposit them in the lattice. So if you need them to be in extremely specific lattice lattice points and then you you need to do layer after layer after layer to get these really novel behaviors, you know, topological superconducting layers, topological insulative layers, Joseph's and junctions and then and then one after the other. We don't know how to do that. So does that get 3D printed somehow? Fascin Okay. Well, I want to we get deep quick. I I want to just for the for the mass audience kind of lay some scaffolding, lay the groundwork. So, you

mentioned heavy side. Most people now when it comes to kind of classical electronamics go off of all Oliver he sides and simplification of Maxwell's Absolutely. So where is conventional classical electronamics off where you think you found kind of a you know a different branch of heavy side because most people adhere to it right this is not anything new this is not new physics this is this is a a new perspective on all physics all I've done was taken the heavy side version of Maxwell equation

couple them with a harmonic oscillator and shown that you get nonlinearity with respect to the ang the angular of frequency either vibration and or spin because as you well know the mathematics is heavily similar and and and come up with under second conditions you get resonance condition phenomena they're not immediately obvious under normal circumstances so let's let's break it down what is a harmonic oscillator a harmonic oscillator if you think of of

uh the best way to describe it is from Hook's law the whole idea of f= minus A a spring. A spring. Exactly. That makes a sinosoid in XY. Yes sir. And then you just write as you well know from Newton's second law and acceleration or m xp prime dt². The whole idea of uh ma

equal this minus kx. From that results your harmonic. So we're talking about derivatives from differential calculus and this is how you go from y= kx hook's extremely simple stuff for you combining that concept with heavy side from there from a what happens is from a a simple scalar as a matter of fact I send you what we presented to the patent examiner and you can have that with a podcast you can actually sure absolutely that's been

already presented it's in the public domain. So, it's considered uh um um unclassified domain. That's it. It's public domain since the uh USPTO primary examiner, a gentleman by the name of Philip Bonszel has already um has put it into the public domain. It was given to him uh via phone conversation. So that particular uh PDF was sent to him and

again it is in that PDF and you can follow the math it's extremely simple but the The whole idea is that you get from the scaling analysis you get a simple relationship that shows the it that it must be correct because the electric field it that relationship it gives you a a rel. So the scaling analysis of the heavy side version of magic equation give you a relation a simple relationship for the electric field strength E and also one for the

magnetic induction otherwise known as the magnetic flux density also known as the B field. Well, from those two relationships, you can actually see that divided by BAX equals C equals the speed of light. Exactly what Maxwell showed the whole idea. that must be correct. And when you couple the harmonic oscillator within those two relationships, you get

something for the Bfield, which is amazing. It shows um um it shows variance with respect to angular frequency square. So in other words, that's interesting. So you in that now I'm tracking because in your patent you you have the you use microwaves inside the annular channel and it's like you called it a confined photoelectric effect. Uh that's exactly what's interesting is the high temperature superconductor patent is necessary for

the high frequency gravity wave patent. They speak to each other because there's a high Q factor associated with the high temperature but for some reason the patent examiner did not even take that into Exactly what you said because then just by that simple argument from an enablement point of view he should have passed or they should have passed the room temperature. So what allows that frequency? Victor Lacno Dr. Victor Lagno Russian of the Russian Academy of Sciences actually shows in his archive published paper.

I've never been able to publish an archive. So the man must have you know either known some moderators again some he showed that my room temperature superc conductor from a mechanism point of view could work and yet the the patent examiner just refused to grant the patent. So it was an incredible idea because you describe what is a proximity probably also a topological

someone that actually has that knowledge. Thank you Jack. Yeah. So encased in a ceramic and so the it's the interfacial layer that is superconducting. That's where the current moves. And so when you've got these 100 terahertz microwaves inside the annular channel of your triangle patent, it's it's exciting and you're you're setting up that standing wave and that's the that's what it's all about the square. That's why this blows up. Yeah. That omega square is very important. And for some reason people refuse to see the mathematics speaks to the physics.

Are you worried at all about that huge B field and the surviving materials surv surviving it? Because that's something we have to be aware of Tesla fields you know as you well know as you well know you have to be extremely careful because usually when you go above even above 10 to the second maybe even pushing 10 to the third Tesla we're talking about tremendous we never made a magnetic field any larger than 30 Tesla 40 Tesla

usually in in gigantic I've heard of something up to on 20 Tesla, but that's a rumor. Yeah. And the Earth's magnetic field is like a a thousandth of a Tesla or How would you insulate materials from that size of magnetic field? You wouldn't insulate it. You would have to you'd use something that uh this would all want to be synergistic. So you you would want to use something that benefits in some way from exposure to that field rather than trying to fight physics. I think that's where really brilliant engineering comes in is that

you're you're not going to put a bunch of things together that are parasitically affecting each other in negative ways and you're trying to finagle your design space to make it work. You'd put a bunch of things together that actually help each other work better with their side effects. Physics is not enough. The engineering of the physics trumps everything else. Again, experiment trumps theory every time. And I believe trumps should become a verb. Have you have you worked on this from an engineering perspective at all or is it

Usually I define it as controlled motion of electrically charged m um of electrically charged objects usually from solace to plasma based on accelerated vibration and or accelerated spin giving rise to extremely high energy densities. Hence electromagnetic energy fluxes. However, it can also be thought of as uh the production the generation of high

It it it makes a lot of sense. But look very carefully slides four to slides nine in that particular presentation and you'll see why the terohertz frequency is so important. It speak something to that uh that Dr. Eric W. Davis uh published in one of those DIA reports that I saw in teleportage uh more to do with a certain macro A fifth dimension a fifth dimension.

Right. So there's a I don't know how much you want to say, but there's a there's a there's a coupling factor between the electric field that you're setting up to generate high frequency gravity waves and this oscilly uh behavior of the particles uh which uh polarizes the quantum vacuum and allows you the analogy that I have used is imagine you have a ziplockc bag that's full of water but it's kind of sloppy and you imagine you can push on it on one side and you set up pressure

gradient. So now you have the quantum vacuum doing work for you and pushing on you with its own pressure and it has such a tremendous energy density like 10 the 44th you know uh calories per square per cubic centimeter something bananas that it does an incredible amount of work. So literally is based on metric it's using it is and quantum electronamics even Simon would say or whatever you know the zero point is fold energy it's using and how put off talks a lot about you know polarizable back

you can electrically polarize and so it's using kind of creating a brainia basically to propel an object is some of your work has cited Max Borne Paul Durac and and more to the swing limit breaking the swing the limit. Why do I talk about that? Not just because I want to make black holes, but the whole idea is that when you put more and more energy into a particular space-time locality, you can actually unravel what we understand as continum

volts per meter commensurate with a B field and your 10 to the 9 volts per meter. Again, what is a schwinger limit? The Schwinga limit truly it it represents how much energy density you the quote unquote quantum vacuum or rather space-time fabric can withstand before it breaks apart. And how [clears throat] does this impact the black hole information limit, right? Because you've you've talked about this. I I never looked too much into the

information gloss paradox. Summarize what you said for sure. So So basically what you're saying is you're using this you're using this electromagnetic amplification methodology to create this Yes. To essentially break the fabric of reality in a way that uses it as propulsion. Is that right? That's 100% correct. Because once you form this black hole, I truly believe that every black hole quote unquote has a white hole has a there's a wormhole

that truly forms between whatever that locality that you've broken the Schwingle and somewhere else that it talks to. And then what where based on the super believe it or not, what where does quantum entanglement where does spin kind of you know uh where's what what how does spin involves here? spin. Oh. Oh. Oh. So in other words, you can accelerate even spin or accelerate in vibration depending on which is easier from an engineering

point of view. As you will know, when you spin something even surpassing 10 to the four RPM, it's very hard to do so and keep this thing. So again, you might choose vibrate. I just chose to to to put in both spin and vibration because the the mathematics is highly similar. certain things from an engineering point of view, you'd want to go with vibration. You say spin. You mean spin like literally spinning a thing not like around it action. And [clears throat] this is interesting, right? There have

been a number there's a there's a very common through line in a lot of alternate gravity manipulation approaches relating to either macroscopic spin uh visav something called the poems theory, Pope Osborne uh angular momentum synergy theory, something that Richard Esgridge looked into at Marshall and then uh Alzafon's nucleonic spin approaches that he sort of scrubbed with Fineman back in the Very complex though. Yeah. But then you got Ming Le's work with the rotating superconductor of IBCO. Also, Eugene Pleutnov used

retrieving a lot of Shaburgger's files. So Sha was one of the first people to talk about rotating you know I think in his case he had something called an impeller machine. This was pre kind of superc conductivity based on implosion rather than right the whole idea of creation again a physics based on creation rather than destruction. Yeah. Well, do you do you think there's a Yeah, but there was a connection between this and then Peninov said, but we just needed more higher RPMs

but again from an engineering point for you, you know how detrimental that can It's very hard to do. It's very hard to do and that's why I chose vibration. Yeah, sure. And not just vibration of an electrically charged object, but So you think that lineage doesn't make sense from an engineering standpoint? Actually, vibration makes more sense. And you know why? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, because with with Let's listen [clears throat] to Jack. By the way, Jack is brilliant. No. No. Far from it. Jesse, please.

Please. 100%. That is totally unfair. Never never ever say that. No. I mean, I But I'm just You guys are more advanced than me. So, Well, there's interesting things you can do when you set up standing waves in plasmas. I mean, you can you can generate cold plasmas as he was talking about. This is something I did in my graduate research back in the day with uh certain frequencies that will pull electrons off of the atoms and then you can start doing interesting things with those electrons and you can set up double layer plasmas and things like this and you know if you can control where the charge goes I mean this is the

problem with a lot of hot fusion experiments is that they can't control where the electrons go. They can't control where the hot ions go and so you get all kinds of breaking radiation. You get breong and you get all kinds of you know tremendous losses and this this this approach ameliates that. So that's why you need cold plasma for the vibrations. It's ideal. Yes. Interesting. And how do you produce cold not easy not easy that is ecubed. Okay. Got it. Absolutely. We'll not touch on that. It's in the in the academic literature but perhaps we don't verify it.

Since you're since after all this is my so-called uh uh first in-person interview. So I should offer something to the uh audience. It involves something that has been given the uh Nobel Prize uh physics. Nobel Prize in physics I believe it was last year. M non-local reality guys. Lasers. Interesting. Leave it there. So, okay. So, that's a better approach

than And then what does this have to do with superc conductivity? I guess believe it or not, everything is related at the quantum vacuum level. So, I I'll throw something out there. So, in in [clears throat] superconducting physics, so we have this baseline theory called BCS theory. Um, Bardin Cooper. Bardin Cooper. Yeah. So, so Bardin brilliant physicist two two Nobel prizes the transistor and superc conductivity and um so so most superconductors their their behavior is characterized by BCS theory. However, they're the these are typically ultra- low temperature

superconductors and extremely high B field superconductors. So these are not terribly useful in industrial commercial application because the environments you have to put them in are very exotic. So of course superconductivity is very useful because it's it's it offers lossless power transmission. uh very high electric fields, very high magnetic fields. I I've often said that the development and discovery of a room temperature superconductor would be is as transformative to commerce and industry as anti-gravity. 100% destructive.

Now um so there's been a a lot of research last 30 or 40 years into uh topological materials, topological insulators and then something called topological superconductors. The nature of a topological material is so typically you have crystal latice materials. So metals are crystals, insulators are crystals, semiconductors are crystals. Ordinarily those crystals have the same properties throughout the bulk of the matrix. Like no matter which way you know frequently they're isotropic meaning this way or that way or they're anotropic meaning it's different this way versus that way. When

you make semiconductor crystals, you get poly crystallin. So you get grain boundaries and you know features stop at these grain boundaries and so you start to get anotropes that's significant to manufacturing semiconductor materials where we're doping these layers with different atoms. And we've been doping since the 1950s. I mean this has been around some time but the level of precision in semiconductor doping is three or four orders of magnitude lower than what we're talking about with these quantum heterosstructured lises where you you really need these big chromium

and venadium atoms that that install their fer ferroagnetic ordering across the lattice. You need them in very specific lattice locations. Jack, you're absolutely brilliant and right on, but let's bring it to a very simp again aams razor simplicity and minimalism. What does superc conductivity truly represent? A macroscopic quantum And it speaks directly to macroscopic quantum coherence. Look very carefully at slides 4 to9 in the 2019 AIAA scitec.

A lot of people have gone over those slides as if there's nothing there. There's something of incredibly important substance. So how do you how [clears throat] do you maintain go microscopic skills? Not easy at all. because everything wants to decoher. Everything wants extremely cold temperatures. again the atoms being in this nice dance because again because of electron hulam repulsion these things

don't want to pair up and yet BCS theory says that they should and Dr. Victor Lagno believes it's not the electrons that but bipolarons. The whole idea of a bipolar mechanism that occurs at these higher temperatures which is a quasi particle. It's it's a composite quasi particle of two polarons. A polaron is itself a quasi particle which is and the pis effect speaks directly to what to this mechanism of room temperature superconductivity. How? It basically says once you form the um an

uh magnetic field once you form this Bose Einstein condensate that Victor Lagno speaks to you can use a pulse current again an alternate current to move it to move it to manipulate it real temperature and yet no one has on either the Victor Lagno paper or my how wait how thinking again pseudocience. How would you do this? So when the reason generally you can't get super conductivity at high

temperature is because the atoms in the in the material have all this thermal motion. They have all this thermal energy. And so the the nature of superconductivity is that this thing called a phonon which is a vibratory mode of an atom inside of a lattice. Phon facilitate the transfer of electrons through the lattice as cooper Um so the polyexclusion [clears throat] principle only applies to spin 1/2 bzons. I know this is really deep, but what happens is when you force electrons close together, they behave as though they're a spin one particle, meaning poly no longer applies and so they can

both occupy the minimum ground state. So they can move together. So there's no degeneracy, there's no energy splitting, and so they move very efficiently through the lattice. problem is if this lattice is warm and all these atoms are vibrating randomly, you can't get this coherent phonon behavior in extremely novel comprised lattises. You put atoms in just just the right place such that these internal magnetic fields set up these roadways, stop signs, highways for

the type two superconductors. This is basically it can be done as long as this thing at any point in its structure has been superconducting. For example, that's why I chose um lead circate titanate all all three components at very low temperatures are And yet because of the bipolar mechanism that uh Dr. I believe in his paper it's a just a three-page paper but on the third page

latter half of his career looking at physioctric material. They're very because one talks to again the whole idea that pressure induced what the electric field can also induce pressure changes in the document. Well, I discovered something very interesting. The towns and browns ceramic insulator of choice was very on the chalkboard in videos of him. They have dismissed his work. This is what changed my mind about

Winter Haven. Yeah. How can they have dismissed his work by the way of Towns Brown's Winter Haven proposal? He says Oliver Heavyside had a very adequate theory of gravity back in the 1890s and we would be right to listen to him. So, you know, that was his opinion as well. I'm convinced that some well-meaning physicists just didn't see the application to exotic condensed matter physics at the time. You know, because I think these are subtle effects for which the coupling is small in natural materials. And you know, as we

started to manufacture semiconductors, this was the world's first meta material in the broad sense. It's not an optical meta material in the strict sense, but and you start to set up these uh these solid state environments that have fundamentally different environments. And we're just now getting to the point where we have the SEM tools to interrogate these things and we have the chemical vapor deposition and the atomic vapor deposition to actually make them and then we have the interrogation tools to know for sure what we really made. I mean these experiments take years to set up and execute. That's why it's been they're not easy. They're not easy at

What would be the next step for I mean cuz let's build a UFO. I mean, if there was ever a time where we were, you know, geopolitically unstable on a macro level and need to throw a Hail Mary, it would be right now. And I don't I don't know what we have still, you know, maybe maybe we we're way more advanced than I mean, what do you think? Do you think we're way more advanced than meets the RI or I truly believe we must be this democracy must win. This republic must stand.

We must survive. So yes, I believe we shall. Do you think that what you're looking into has already been discovered and then some in kind of private quarters or do you think that you're deriving something fundamentally? Absolutely not. I do not think I'm an original and this is at all. As a matter of fact, the physics that I speak to was available in the 1890s and they were great physicists at the time. So you great brains I'm 100% sure

that I'm not an original in this not at many interesting the way that [clears throat] I address the bice effect especially from the room temperature superconductor now the vice effect driven room temperature superconductor I do believe I'm an I would believe that and Victor Lnau attests to that he says it could work now for a man of his capacity if his capability of his mathematical prowess and not just mathematical physics we're talking physical ical mathematics where the physics drive them drives the

paper with six authors and then they published another paper with three authors because only three people can share a Nobel Prize. They were that Then what happened on the There were people that replicated [clears throat] it issues. Yeah. There were Chinese teams that replicated the the experiment. It it it went into the void as if so you guys seem to lend a little more credence than meets the eye to uh next maybe. Yeah. I think I I I had heard there were reproduction issues. Other labs tried to make it and I I find it hard to believe like other labs would

cover it up because again it's brands galore waiting to happen. You have what you talked to dude who I love and I think he's an American hero, great guy. when when I when they speak to him, he really has to speak super cryptically about like you know some very destructive like save the world but also destroy the world. me off and play nicely together like the toy or whatever is this or is he talking about room temperature superc conductivity or who knows

yeah [laughter] if the man doesn't drink I believe so you might not be able to get any information out of him he's also a very you can tell the man has seen a lot is so on that note you know on the subject of proliferation um I'm I find it very fascinating to think about the fact that Manhattan we got a little lucky and that nuclear weapons turn out to be very difficult to make and so proliferation was slow in terms of the weaponization

of UAP physics and we've of course mentioned there could be multiple branches and different techries do do you have a sense that this technology will be difficult to replicate difficult to manufacture or very easy no however there's a paper out there plasma compression fusion device you and I were talking right before uh it's being cited by some very important and uh research teams in China and the latest that's being start cited is of this year I e journal

can you imagine making a plasma compression fusion device something compact now in what artificial intelligence uh domain would cybernetics couple with if you were to use such a device. Say such a device was operational. It could be made operational in a small footprint, a power source, something like Iron Man's Could you imagine what you would use that in? Why would the inle journal of

cybernetics be interested in that particular word? Think what that would mean. Terrify. I mean, you Terrifying. There's so many ways. Enormous energy densities are terrifying in every way. Every But imagine an army of those. What they could mean? Leave it there, Jesse. Trust me on that. Leave it there. That's freaky. It's very freaky. Again, the fusion of ideas cross domain

ability of using information from different disciplines. That's in the open literature. That's why OENT can be so incredibly important in the right hands. Yeah. In cross domain technology interdisipline across those oent could prove extremely dangerous. It already has and it already is. Uh you know the use of AI tools in reverse engineering all of these ideas right out of the right out of the ether right out

of um off the internet is very powerful already. I mean, it's it's helped a lot of us in the disclosure effort find things uh that are out there in the public domain that it just maybe we didn't realize they were already in the public domain. However, it's also ecubed. Not a good idea. Well, okay. So, you also have written a lot about high frequency gravitational Yes, sir. And so, how does that play into all of this? And why don't we actually zoom out real quick and just explain how okay if you had a room temperature superconductor and then you had the

how would this allow you to possibly build a UFO like hey how does that play into you know travel I cannot speak to that but again please there is no such thing as faster than light travel Einsteinian physics is never broken Einstein was 100% everything Einstein has come up with is 100 100% % real and I truly believe that for example even quantum entanglement we're not talking about instantaneous communication here

so you don't believe that like a lot of people in national security disclosure world talk about alciliary warp drives you know involving negative mass or negative energy to allow for faster than light travel you don't think that's I do not believe then again once you break once you create this black hole Einstein and physics no longer truly applies eyes. Think of the paradigm it's as if you have broken known physics to begin with a whole again I I choose

not to call it new physics but truly that's what truly let's get a little because you hit the swinger limit break space time what happens visav this fifth dimension will not we'll not touch on that not touch what's interesting about a kubir drive I think is this notion of negative energy And there have been people who have associated negative energy with quantum vacuum energy. That's right. So what's interesting is it could be the case that the the alubier approach and the and the quantum vacuum approach in

fact arrive at the same result. They're just different paradigms for looking at the same thing. What but what's interestingly different is alubier is a strictly Einsteinian notion in a manner of speaking. It operates entirely within general relativity. It doesn't require a TOE. It doesn't require new physics. Whereas which which also is somewhat unhelpful because it doesn't give us guideposts to new physics. It's not really informative in any way. Whereas these kinds of approaches do require those things. Huge news everyone. We've been sitting

behindthe-scenes footage, and monthly group calls where we discuss the ideas we love most. Plus, you'll get early access to merchandise drops and be the first to know about the upcoming conference we'll be holding later in 2025. Our WAP community will serve as a private space where curious individuals and tech enthusiasts can come together to challenge the status quo and explore ideas shaping our future. If you're passionate about exploring unconventional ideas and want to dive even deeper into our content, I invite

you to join our [ __ ] today. Head over to premium to become a premium member today. Thank you so much and enjoy the rest of today's episode. Can you talk about how highfrequency gravity waves might allow for UFO like activity or I would rather not. I would rather not go there. I found it interesting that it could all and that's just because it can be weaponized. So it can be well let's let's not go there. Well I I I did find it interesting just

high level that I believe if Glennov has hit on something already and if it's true that he has made this impulse gravitational cuz he's is he sort of because he's funded by the Russians and he's in he's in uh help once upon a time I was told he was working for an American contractor is he I thought he might be because I the latest rumors is that

I had heard Boeing oh Phantom I hope he's I'm pretty sure he's repatriated okay so this is really scary setup because basically it's funny Because after this conversation, I'm neurotic about this conversation, but I'm so much less neurotic about outing Towns in Brown, who I'm sure is right, because that is so far down the chain of like it's like so not dangerous. And it's and it's to me it's absurd from an American

national security standpoint that like it would at all be controversial to destigmatize him. You know, he's this scient also Navy scientist. He was a great man. Great man. He stigmatized his own work probably for good reason because at the time I think it was the tip of the spear and you it was this cold war secrecy era but just based on this conversation it sounds like all nations are pretty far advanced as far as these heterodox frameworks and if you're the US you need to be getting as many young people aware

of these things as soon as humanly possible at least from a high level. Yeah. Otherwise where the hell's the talent going to come from? Yeah. What? Like seriously. Yeah. And Weinstein has spoken on this too and I think you know I don't I don't I think I think there's missing names like what's going on who's who's actually working on it. Right. Right. Totally. Or even just like what are the proper frameworks? It's like finally it seems like string theory is capitulating after getting bashed over the head for the last you know 10 years by phmicists. You know they've seemed like not a super uh you know self-aware

crowd up until like maybe the last couple years. They're all saying you know like Leonard Suskin just won on theories of everything. Kurt J great interviewer was like I think we've kind of you know put the cap on. Yeah. So, but but it just would see you would you would expect some sort of coordinated effort on high when it comes to the American national security state when it comes to letting this stuff out. And it's it's it's I I always feel like, you know, I'm sort of in an awkward position with it. You know, for example, with the Towns and Brown stuff where

clearly that was the right thing to do, but it's in retrospect having this sort of conversation that, you know, it's like you never know what the right thing is. I I suspect some of this has to do with the fact that the majority of the program was executed during the Cold War and I think perhaps at one time we were quite certain that we were the only ones with anything and we thought worst case scenario we we put a big footprint on this and just like Manhattan the adversary infiltrates the program and steals what we've gotten and all of a

sudden there's this proliferation of next generation weapons of mass destruction as I spoke to Dave Gush about and maybe they thought for the longest time. Max priority is bury it. Keep it totally totally silent. No one knows it exists. Distant second priority. Glean as many technical insights from it as you can every once in a while. And unfortunately somehow eventually they did get it either through their own crash retrievals or infiltrating our program whatever it might be. And now there is a race and we are not in first. That's wild. Wait, what do you what do

you need to get the first? I I if I had to guess between Russia and China, I'd say China. That's yeah they they have they're not distracted with a regional war. They have a significant amount of resources to put towards it. Do you know treated a lot of their alumni from this Yeah. Every year China graduates more STEM professionals than exist in the entire United States. They're brilliant. How many times they've won the math Olympiads? You think that's simp? And you think it's probably, you know, it's like the threebody problem or whatever. the PRC if they want you to

work on some highly classified stuff they just knock on your door and here it's just this complicated bureaucratic you know you have all these corporate thief do this with local incentives taking shots at one another I truly think that one day we must unite the factions because I think one day we shall have one day you need now what do you mean listen as soon as possible because I think we have an external enemy and by external enemy I mean very external very external. What are you talking about?

Yeah. But do you have any in everybody's Sure. But like it's like we you have thousands of years of history where like we haven't had contact or maybe if we have had contact at least it's ephemeral enough where like our modern historical perspective I believe we've had contact with thousands of years but in this weakly entangled ephemeral way in a way that you know if you were to talk to like an conventional historian they would not say that you know they'd say we're alone we're at the top of the consciousness food chain. So, do you guys have any information that I don't

when it comes to something coming down the pike uh as far as hostile content? Well, there there are people who feel strongly that there have been reset events, right? Human history reset events. For instance, 70,000 years ago, we know genomically there was a bottleneck. There was a human bottleneck event where, you know, something like 7,500 uh members of the population are are our descend or our ancestors. And I don't I don't know what to think of that. I mean, I don't really necessarily see the purpose, but you you do have to speculate. There's so many degrees of freedom associated with what

It starts with very interesting words. It's I believe we are property dot dot dot. Read that book. It's very interesting. What's the It's for your audience. Let them look into this little breadcrumb. We're property. So we are property. So we're already colonized. What are we again the whole idea of are we a civilization with amnesia as a certain gentleman? Well, Graham Hancock Graham Hancock. Sure. Well, we we

definitely seem to, you know, follow this like local incentive scarcity gamified thing that doesn't seem like it's in the best interest of our race ascending into anything, you know, more real. And uh that's the thing that attracts me to the whole UFO phenomena. all its weird cast of characters and you know Hall of Mirrors vibes. It it feels like a somewhat transcendent topic where you know maybe we can ascend out of our I think we will soon soon enough anyway

face a tremendous threat from without and I believe as the great Ronald Reagan once said if we do not come together as a unified earth we will not withend what's coming. Do you think it's already I mean, you have these rumors of like, you know, the gray aliens are collecting biological I do not know. I truly do not know. Why do you think contact? Cuz that that that's a crazy that's a really big Do you ascribe to the battlefield

preparation hypothesis that the vehicles acting uh aggressively with fighter planes that the vehicles uh you know overflying the missile fields and shutting missiles off? Of course, they're testing us. You think so? Oh, and that's why we should be very careful on putting all our money into reverse engineered ET craft because because they already have their own technologies. They know how to defeat their own thing. What what if there's good factions and bad factions? Like when I speak to Robert Hastings,

I'm praying for that because otherwise we do not have a chance in hell. Well, a lot of a lot of the nuclear stuff is like shutting down silos and maybe and then a lot of the messaging that people get seems to be like you're going to destroy yourselves in some sort of nuclear holocaust and you need to come together now and focus more on the environment and that sort of thing. So, right. It's like green PC type things. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm [snorts] so I'm not saying that's not some tricksterism. You know, it's hard to say is all I'm saying. We need to maintain that. If there are multiple Yes. I completely agree. There are multiple actors in the

space. It's incredibly hard to attribute what to what. How does your work s connect with the great Alputo off? I read a lot of his papers and he is great indeed. Uh don't forget I I believe this man uh if he was not connected with things that are taken as non-scientific and I'm pseudo science like remote bung would have deserve is deserving of a Nobel prize truly especially the the physical review paper

on gravity and that's that's pure brilliance. What does he say about when he describes gravity as an emergent property of of the underlying uh space-time foam and it it's it's how it's put offs like seminal work of space can electrically polarize the vacuum and then you can manipulate gravity like you can manipulate variables in Maxwell's Yeah. And and he's the first to talk about that. Yeah. It's funny he was touching on it in my interview with him and Eric Weinstein and we didn't quite get into

like the mechanism because this idea I think you know Eric couldn't believe that he worked on remote viewing I could tell that um again for Harvard trained mathematician the idea of even remote viewing being possible such an abnormality. What do you think of remote viewing? I think remote action is possible. So that's even farther than remote Can you imagine stopping at heart just by thinking about it? Say from Qatar.

That's scary. That's some scary [ __ ] [laughter] Anyway, who needs the CIA's uh heart stopping gone when you can do it with a thought? Well, well, and there there are there are rumors about the fact that there was other teams of remote viewers being trained by uh by Pat Price and Joe McGonagal other than than put off. Yeah, there are rumors that still going on. And I mean, you even if you read skim marketers at the Pentagon, it was definitely still going on in the context of Osap, but like you know, I don't

think it ended in 1995. I mean, you have Joseph McMongle won the Legion of Merit for over 200 times, which he helped collect intelligence, hostage cases, drawing up, you know, nuclear sites, that sort of thing. You don't just end a program like that. It Yeah, it just wouldn't make sense. But yeah, I also think we're emerging, we're we're figuring out more and more possible physical models of consciousness that might explain remote viewing. So if the brain is a hybrid quantum classical system which you know you Penrose would

be one model and I don't know if microtubules are the right thing but they can maintain coherence up until the you know single point you know the that's important and if if that's the case then in quantum systems you have temporal nonality and you can send you can reverse cubic positions in quantum and so if then if you go get into a working quantum computer maybe you can send information on the application life back In time many people building quantum computers say that that's right. So if your brain is a hybrid you know quantum classical computer maybe you are

accessing shards of information from the future especially if you're given How does the brain prevent the coherence? That's the question I should probably through nonabelian statistics just like the pi effect. So how would you uh that must be you know some meditation technique or No I'm sorry nonabelian statistics it's like firmy duroc statistics. It's a type of particle statistic model that emerges from standard model physics. And I know from a mathematical perspective, but like a dog isn't doing vector calculus when he's catching a frisbee.

Like what protocol should we do? It's very interesting. To maintain coherence. So great question. So what do you think? Great question. What do we do? Great question, Jack. What do we How do we get to the how do we get to the fifth amen? How do we hit the swinger limit with [laughter] Oh my god. W I'm 100% for example in these UAP phenomena they speak of a mind matter connection called Stephanie there but there must be there must be a trans there must be an intermittent medium

what is that intermittent medium it has occurred to me that the vacuum itself oh yeah what else can be there the medium through which how does light transfer through photons. But you're saying where's the medium? Because every other wave has to move through a medium. The ether I don't know a quantum vacuum. But is it a super force level is that at the plank scale,

I talk about I mean the super force you talk about 10 to the 44 Newton be has to be in a dimensional It would have to be which Ken shoulders talks about fifth dimensional space for exotic exotic vacuum object. Yeah, I suppose it doesn't have to be. It's not it's not necessarily required that we have higher dimensional spaces. I mean there there could always so kuzacle compact compactified subdimensions. Uh it has problems but it the the the general notion of higher dimen it it solves some problems. It explains the hierarchy problem. Uh it

explains the gravitational weakness problem. Why is gravity you know 31 orders of magnitude weaker than the strong nuclear force or something. And remember what Kuza thinks of electrical charge is what motion in the fifth dimension. M [clears throat] he how interesting. It was interesting to fascinate. I was reading from Frontiers of Propulsion Science by Eric Davis. Great book. By the way, he's Eric W. Davis. No matter what he says on my physics, the man must be congratulated for that book. Just just for that book

I brought my copy. Him and Mark Millis are are are amazing. But you can tell that the real forte behind the physics is is Dr. Davis. Well, he says my head off to him. He says something around the live build brown effect, which he he believes and that was from the book. Uh if you take it at face value that that's, you know, just, you know, coronal wind or ionic wind and it's not actually, you know, a tie between electromagnetism and gravity. But I think at one point he says you would need a fifth dimensional space to connect EM and gravity if this

were to actually work. So exactly very interesting. I I think fundamental Oh, Dr. Davis is very intelligent. How did how does torsion uh playing cov? Oh, Jack, please. Well, so one of my favorite subjects. Now we're going into heavy pseudo science for everyone out there. So here's what's funny is that all fake. [laughter] That's right. If you talk about heavy side as a more fundamental treatment of of uh of of Maxwell, similarly Einstein carton is a more fundamental treatment

of Einstein because Einstein felt the torsional tensor should be treated symmetrically in free space and therefore zero out. You know, T21 minus T12 equals Z. And Eli Carton came around and said no, you can't make that assumption. You know, there could be exotic environments where this is a non-zero contributor. And so basically the two contributions to gravitational force in a geometric context are curvature to spacetime and a twist to spacetime. So torsion is the twist. And what makes that interesting from a gravity manipulation standpoint is that contents of the torsional tensor are the

spin density tensor which can contain contributions from electromagnetic spin. So if you can do really novel things with spin either by coupling electron spin to nucleionic spin or maybe like you're talking about axial spin to uh uh harmonic vibratory modes that sort of blow up real fast. Uh you can maybe generate really large contributions to the spin density sensor and get these torsional repulsion fields that act like gravity, look like gravity, but technically they're not exactly gravity. No. Wow. However, they can couple to

under certain conditions. So then you could basically because gravity can't traditionally manipulate in a lab. So you might be able to manipulate in a lab. Again the whole idea of the graviton itself being a spin two whereas the photon spins Yeah. Now in the broader context torsional physics is not a theory of everything. It's just going to be a piece of a more complete theory of gravity that slots into some broader theory of quantum gravity. Interesting. Do you think Oh, so that's

fascinating. So, so but but this would be tortional physics a way to direct gravity that vibes to gravity more tightly than traditional transverse Hercian electromagnetic waves along the lines of multiple tech trees. This could be one of those branches that's important and significant. That's fascinating. And what do you think of, you know, you mentioned Greer, you watching this stuff and that's sort of inspiring some of the work did Bob Lazar. Do you think that he was I think Lazar is right on the money. When I I'll tell you the truth when when I saw in in

in the super force equation C to the 4th divided by big G being the super fourth and and that talking as a linear operator really to the spatial temper um temporal geometric structure thereby giving rise to energy density. When I saw that and I I remember his words that this sports mile is as if it was 3D printed our space time. That's exactly what that equation says. So that means

that they have the capability to manipulate the space force at a Plantian level where we talk about a physics that we it's unfathomable. That's why I'm saying they would at a that's that's his root access. That's a pretty well. And so what about his idea of gravity a gravity b two I don't know about that. It's occurred to me maybe it's curvature gravity and torsional gravity.

Oh could be interesting. I know it could be different explanation encouraging him but [laughter] well I've I've come around on I I I never I never fully ruled Rogan says that he believes so do I I believe Lazar is not I'm starting to well I I think he was pushed out by Intel I believe because John Leer gave the files to George Knap but and so maybe it was like at the time

don't forget this guy actually knew Teller did not approach anybody that was do you we're talking one of the greatest physicists of all time. If it wasn't for his uh his his sustaining with Openheimer and how much Openheimr was loved by the rest of the physics community, Edward Teller would be remembered forever as one of the geniuses of our time. Remember this is the man that not only is responsible for the teleam device but for something called project sile

it's unclassified look into it well if it's unclassified so what happened look into it imagine creating something instead of uh 50 megat tons the Russian sa bomba imagine something billion whoa yeah he he wanted a 100 gigaton oh I don't know Jesus Christ. Man was an absolute genius from every Genius. He had no no he rightly believed no earth no world

in in its right mind. We all sane. Trust me we are sane as an earth. That's why we must come together unified somehow. I'm down with that amount of energy out No no no. He believed that no no sane world would ever execute such a weapon. So just the very existence of such a weapon knowing that you have that sword. This is the the sword of democles. The man must have been very well-versed in the classics.

Sword of democles always hanging above your head. Nobody is crazy enough. We have enough of a sword of democles in my opinion. But what what what do you think because you made an interesting you've been talking a lot about heavy side here and and him being you know kind of an inspiration for you along the way. I interviewed a Navy scientist another Navy scientist who actually was anonymous in my Towns and Brown episode. He talked about this framework of extended electronamics. So he talked

about the original 21 Maxwell's equations and a more faithful adherence to those equations and the quadinarian you know uh being somehow essential to all these new exotic electromagnetic waves beyond the transverse waves. scalar wave scaler longitudinal waves things like that do you agree with that model or it I believe there are many roads that lead to Rome I understand that view because they believe there's that truly what we are

seeing again the whole idea of the iron of bomb effect the whole idea is that what's true is the vector and the scalar potentials not the electric field per se and the B field it's the way you look at it the way you view was again physics should drive the mathematics not the other way around. I truly believe that. What's interesting is I read a paper recently because I've always been skeptical of scalar longitudinal scalar wave theory but I read it primarily because we don't see them. So the question is is I you know I'm

fundamentally an empiricist. Where are we going to see these? Well, what's interesting is apparently there's a possibility of mistaking very small subharmonics in AC waveforms for or I'm sorry mistaking longitudinal scalar waves for subharmonics. So the notion was if you expose some kind of a novel matrix something like what we were talking about that that that sort of pulls the waveform apart in the same manner that a prism pulls apart you know gra light wave and shows you the different frequencies that you might see something novel out of that that you're

like wait a second that's not normal that's perhaps your scalar wave so there's a possible experimental approach to verification or discrediting and don't for don't forget the fundamental papers of ET Whitaker 1904 1905 a English British mathematician by the name of ET Whitaker writes these two fundamental papers whereby he actually shows that scalar waves non herzian so non-transverse waves are feasible

interesting as a matter of fact wasn't it Colonel Tom Bearden that mentioned yeah Tom Bearden talks about scalar physics there's a guy now named Lebl who publishes papers about woodside is Another guy publishes papers about extended electronamics and these other wave types. I mean these things are not expressly forbidden. So no anything that's not forbidden by physics is allowable. Yeah. And you're not now is it engineerable? That depends on the genius of some Well, you need to polarize a vacuum

again, right? Cuz because it it's all about the in the Lorren equation, right? having a sort of a gauge where the scalar and vector are automatically kind of negated or equal zero. But back there might actually be room a real scalar longitudinal or scalar and vector potentials that are present even if magnetic field is not present. And that the prosaic explanation for that is the electromagnetic force potential. But a lot of the proponents of extended electronamics say that that actually

explains this stuff way way better. This is why I think condensed matter physics is the most exciting field of physics today because these things are being Please don't forget Nicola Tesla. Yeah. His idea of radiant energy is based on No waves. Scalar waves. Yeah. Interesting. Very interesting. Always he he was totally against Hertz by the Was he Tesla was very outspoken known to be he anyway because he thought his own exot these exotic way well he was experimenting.

Don't forget Einstein thought that Tesla was the the most intelligent man in the world at one point in time. This is I've never interacted today. I've never consumed Einstein's commentary about Tesla. That's interesting. Well, I it's funny. Tesla and Towns were doing the same thing. Tesla was doing similar stuff to what Towns and Gravel is at the end of his career at WBY Cliff and in Colorado Springs. extremely high voltages across short distances where you would expect to get these kind of novelous effects rips and somebody should ask the president-elect

about his his uncle. Well, you want to know the the one interview with John Trump is available in a documentary on the Philadelphia experiment. Philadelphia experiment is this wacky scoff, you know, experiment with towns and brown involved. There probably was a real thing going on underneath the, you know, veneer, the fake thing that was distributed that Towns and Brown actually pulled off. But John Trump gets interviewed in this documentary by Bill Moore. And John Trump was tasked with looking through

Tesla's files when they confiscated him from his apartment in New York. And so he he was the national he was very close with Vanabar Bush. If there is a legacy UFO program, John Trump had to he was the top radar expert in the country. I think he even owned a company called High Voltage LLC or something like that. I believe Tesla physics, quote unquote, can bring these things down. This is our trump card. I truly believe what? It's the genius of Nicola Tesla that

will one day help us in the upcoming, let's say, if there's such a thing, a Oh, you're saying invasion. Well, that's what I And that's what uh Greer says. I don't like to talk about that. I think that's a bad I think I think we shouldn't mess with the stuff and let it let them decide. Let them decide. I think they're way more advanced. Again, I believe we have property. Oh man. I think I think they're factions and I think they're they're good initiatory factions and then they're bad

malevolent more actively [ __ ] with us faction. Well, interesting math emerges when you look at the the sheer number of galaxies, the sheer number of stars per galaxy, the age of the universe, the number of emergent species that can that can emerge from a given planet, the numbers blow up very quickly. So, this notion of 1 2 3 four species gets really strange. Like, why aren't there 25,000? You know, why aren't there 30,000? Yeah. And so I think there must so on the nuts and bolts side I think there are power scaling restrictions in play

that restrict how far you can go with any sort of FTL technology. But at the same time I think it informs the political landscape. Yeah. Well we assume right this like binary angels and demons or angels for demons right but it's not great. Well, if you have a hierarchy of being, it's it's likely more of a Cambrian explosion, more uh diversity uh on the food chain above you, maybe maybe even then below you or whatever because you have these uh you know, all sorts of path

dependencies and uh yeah, so maybe maybe there's just extremely complex. As a counterpoint, I Peter Teal gave a very interesting interview where he talked about how he thinks there's an argument for the fact that that there might be uh selective forces that lead to one very good and one very bad. And this that this could this could give rise to the the binary. And I read a st on it. We talked about it. It was very controversial because there are people that hate this interpretation, but I think it's very compelling. Well, it's compelling, but it's biblical. It's the war between the children of

Yeah. Yeah. And the children of That's Yeah. If it ever felt apocalyptic, it does now. I mean, look at what's going on. You look at where the war is actually taking place. It's pretty. It feels like we're in the book of Revelation. But also truly end of time. That's weird. But like I think the point he was making was that tech itself is a forcing function. And so if you have warp drive tech, if you have faster than light tech, you you never see it's it coming. You It's hard to have your defense against that. That was an excellent point.

And so because of that, it is you either have to inflect towards this like totalitarian total clampdown one world government state or you need to inflect towards like complete altruism and like heart-c centeredness. And if you have one, you know, maybe you'll be okay, you know, with the work drive tech and it'll be saving of humanity. And if you have the other, you know, you just you need total control. But, you know, that's not that's hope in that direction. I believe the physics that will win is the physics that's based on creation rather than

So, Victor Shaw, well, how do we how do we get to because a lot of this conversation is, you know, it's fascinating and it's mindopening, but it's also uh bleak and scary because I I it's starting to dawn on me just how we live in a multipolar world and you have these exotic lineages of physics that all of these countries are somewhat privy to. uh and they're they're very destructive. And so how do we get to a more generative uh heart-c centered

positive version of physics and the global landscape? Many roads lead to Rome, but there's only one via only one what? Via the one that the aqueduct was built along. It was the major road that led to Rome. So there could be many roads that led to wrong but there was one of choice was usually followed by the legions. There may be just one way of doing it right. Can we find it before something

tragic happens? What do you think that way is? There's Unification but it can't just be a physics solution. Can we re-engineer human nature? I once asked that of Kurja Mango. Uh I think he's still thinking at it. Can we re-engineer human nature? That's [snorts] where the secret of all this lie. What are we? Who are we? What do you think? I think it's possible.

But again, I think it demands a great effort on our part to leave our individualistic ways and come together as one collective who willing to live in total equality. See, Marx attempted that he did. And yet the practice of Marxism resulted in tremendous atrocities. Paul Grumps. Well, he was diagnostically

and you could say that it was the Leninist uprising and the revolution that led to Nazism that led to national socialism. So in other words, everything came from trying to put this idea of equality into practice but in the wrong manner because it formed elitism. Once you have elitism into the equation, you've destroyed everything. Well, the it's just so anathema to human nature and Marxism and it's maybe it's sort of

diagnostically somewhat correct as far as how capitalism creates these sort of alienation dynamics or whatever, but prescriptively it's just so beyond But isn't it a beautiful thought the equality of man? I think um man I like you know I don't like meritocracy. I think is overused and kind of in in an annoying way, but it's meritocracy is way better than equality. So like the idea that we're all like, you know, equal outcomes or whatever, that that's crazy, you know,

may maybe some sort of, you know, equal footing or opportunity, but that even you end up in these sort of neverending conversations of how exactly to engineer that, right, in these sort of technocratic ways that lend themselves actually to power co-option ultimately of people that don't even care about those things. It's sort of a bait and switch. And so I don't know. I think it's a really hard conversation. If the 20th century was a reputation of anything, it was a reputation of these technocratic ideologies where you could engineer society into anything. It was the it was you had all these utopian ideologies and

none of them weren't. Nazism, bullshism, communism, you know, Troskyist, Marxism, they all failed. No. And um, you know, I think it really was a reputation. It's the most deadly century we've ever had. So, I don't know how we we get out of this, but it feels like it has to be a much more individual path. Maybe we need a common enemy from the outside. No, that doesn't seem good or carries at all. You think that there would be an enemy from within. There would be a fifth column that there would

be people taking their side. Well, I think I think the the right thing is scary. Yeah. the right thing is to look within, you know, it's to to really really look at yourself, think about who you are and and and and and fix what's broken there. And I think that that's probably better path I think we've seen enough microcosms of the outside enemy to to assert unfortunately that there would be fifth columns in in with some manner of That's what the problem is. What do you mean? And again that would

that there'd be some disruption to the idea of global unity by way of an external uh because the the ideology is that there'd be some the most basic of units the re-engineering of human nature itself. Do we have enough self-awareness so you I don't I don't know if I believe in that in some sort of scobby way. Well yeah what I mean what this is an open question. What do you guys think, you know, Reagan meant what? You have rumors, right, of like MacArthur. Why would he have said it in a plain

session of of the United Nations? So, so yeah. So, this is this is the story is that Fan was speaking with Gorbachev. Gorbachev tells this story that uh he says it in an interview I think with Charlie Rose or something and um Reagan whispers to him right before the conversation starts. says, you know, hey, if aliens invaded, would you have our back? Meaning kind of, you know, capadrate on that and defend the earth together. And Gorbachev was extremely taken it back. But uh yeah, this idea of kind of astral

astral politics or something. Do do you think that that and this idea MacArthur there were rumors that you know I'm interested though. What was Glob's was it then the affirmative? I think it was he said if he said yes, Mr. President, we would we would defend you. He meant it too, man. Is that is that real though? I mean, does that is that like Reagan like kind of messing with him or Sometimes you have leaders that are meant to be there at the right time under the right circumstances, but I believe they're born for that particular

purpose to make sure that Earth is not pushed toward the precipice of predition. Maybe we're meant to have a certain balance between the children of the darkness and the children of the light. What do you mean? Equilibrium. And yet everything happens far away from equilibrium. Everything that's physically important. How interesting. What? Whoa. Is that we're speaking to you mystic? What's going on? What do you mean? I don't know. [laughter]

high energy physics or like extremely granular manipulation of you know materials you know whatever and so it's like it's you're really you're pushing the boundary it's like um you have this uh Ken Wilson was this CERN physicist he had this concept of renormalization that's like it was it's really used to describe phase transitions and materials but it's like you know um who was against it he someone spoke against that idea saying that it's like uh is like putting

putting infinities under the rug is like sweeping infinities under the Was it I don't know. But I'm just using really philosophical just like pushing systems to their logical boundary in your case, Um you get kind of weird effects like it is a famous quote of Agnu Bon who's sponsoring the Chapel Hill conference and kind of creates quantum gravity which sends physics down a culdeac string theory. Very strange what happened. Very interesting. But he's also funding towns and Browns work back of the house

know, the whole conference, you know, it was sponsored by sponsored by Wright So, very, very interesting history. And and Agnu Bonson himself, who's the writes a book about man-made UFOs called the stars are too high. Actually, it's about this plan to unite the world via this man-made UFO invasion. But uh he also you know says strange things occur at high megabolt high megga volts across short distances and he's describing towns brown's work. So it's clear that pushing things to the limit even plasma itself is the fourth energy state. We

that? And is that a bad thing? It's most certainly a point of beautiful question. That's a great question. Gorgeous question. Thank you, Z. [laughter] True. Jack, you want to attack that one? It's most certainly a point of inflection forcing function such that when you approach it something perhaps uh un some some black swan event is going to take place and I think that's where we talk about things that are way far from equilibrium right is these are these are uh founder events

the world is inflecting and going we're in a weird timeline and uh extremely very strange one and time time you know we things that there may be uh you know I've I've always said this and I I will hold this to this to my dying breath. The whole idea is that I describe matter as condensed or or rather how do I say it? I I say it in a certain way contained

energy or rather energy that's contained that's bound within fields and frozen in a quantum of time. You know who believes confined in a quantum confined that's it confined that that's uh I that came no joke out of the quantum vacuum I I choose not to to use the term ether because Einstein was so much against the idea of loop even though he he introduces it in 1921 in a

and everybody goes back on it he says actually the ether is compatible with our our orthodox physicist that already believe me of pseudo scientist and craft pot shop I don't want to force you think do you think that in your lifetime on a sort of more mass audience scale you get vindicated and your work uh becomes it's a dream brother it's an absolute do you know how many tears and sweat and blood and freaking nightmares and

sleepless nights I've Uh it just just that's why the Lakno paper means so much to me. That's why I honor that man. You know, we're supposed to not like the Russians and not like the Chinese. We all people, brother. we all people. And that's why sometimes I pray for for this external enemy because it's the one thing that will create a forcing function to unify us once and for all, a united earth as it should be. Anyway, do you think you should want to know

vote for us? Nah, please. But Puto, Oh, yes, Dr. P. That paper is one of the papers that got me thinking. He's so early on everything. He's just implicated in I'm pretty sure that he's had many a sleepless night, too, and concerned about what others have to leave. Well, he's 88 and he's still completely wasted. I saw him maybe a month and a

half ago or something. We watched James Lock's documentary together. He's just sharp as attack. He's just he's an incredible he what a mind that man. Love that guy. And I, you know, I felt especially when I, you know, I met him, you know, maybe 2018ish, 2019, and like I felt really crazy in thinking about a lot. All this stuff's now like in vogue like UFO celebrities. Back then I felt totally quacky cuz I was like really into I felt like a deep resonance with with he was like the one guy who I felt

like was you know somewhat credible who who really uh there's a he's very incredible I think but because the deeper I've got I realize he is just for context for the audience magenta was a rumored crash I believe in Bolognia Italy that ended up it was in Italy's hands for like the next 11 12 years it was uh actually remember to be held at the Vatican at some point and then it would head over to the US. So, well, I think it we do think it maybe went to Germany, but we don't know when for sure or whatever, but and GR

wouldn't speak to when it came here and it went and all that, but yeah, uh some heavy physics there. It's interesting. It's possible it was a first oneoff vehicle that we had at some point before Roswell that, you know, was at Rightfield or something like that. So you think the picture of the because you you see pictures of Kler stuff, you know, and and Dreslaw, you know, and and pills in, you know, in Czechoslovakia and Poland and um you see this tester ring that's like shaped like, you know,

it looks like an acorn or vell or something could be fit in there. You think they were testing maybe the magenta craft? I've heard it's also active on that So I mean why have that shape at all? Why that shape in particular? Yeah. given and then it was transferred maybe to right pad or something right like like at the end of the war when we got in or something like that that would be very interesting or if it wasn't scary as [ __ ] fell if it's true because the implications of [ __ ] but so do you think that was a UFO

you don't know but like in 1933 you don't have some sophisticated bell on that you're building like bro the vice effect Yeah. 1890s physics. Okay. Okay. So, you think people like maybe maybe Guroff figured this out? What I'm worried about is uh Walter Bosley, you know, the friend of Dr. Joseph Pharaoh, Walter Bosley, the whole idea of Nenza. Who the [ __ ] were these guys? The airship quote unquote mystery. What's

going on here? Because that's around her size that speaks to the B. Yeah, but that's that's a really quick translation from physics to engineering. You think the 1890s airship there some terrestrial engineering geniuses back there? Look at Nicola Tesla. But that's that would just be wild. That's beyond belief to me. What if it's all [ __ ] You think it could all be human stuff from the 1890s on all of the records could be gone, you I mean, but that's just a crazy cover

and just use the anti craft kind of like a cuz they never again I believe their [ __ ] craft touches on manipulation of the super force. How the [ __ ] do you do that? How how do you manipulate something at at the Keep that secret for 140 years. That seems crazy. They also didn't have a lot of the material technology advances yet. You sometimes survival makes you crazy. They well they would need some sort of parasychological root access to you know

control it. They would need you know they would need the mind stuff that or possibly a brotherhood of the occult. Yeah something like that like a breakaway civilization that breakaway civilization arriving at some Read up on Dr. Ferrell's ideas on the breakaway civilization. also Dolan. Don't forget Richard and Dolan. But who is who in the 1890s would have been privy to HeavyIDes insights in a way that allowed them to finance the building of you know these exotic crowd.

No, there's some powerful families back I'm not going to name names. These are still extremely powerful. Put it this way. It's much better that we know certain names but we don't know the invisible ones because touching even on the invisible once existence is not a good idea and impact our survival and again none of us here are suicidal. We love being alive. Absolutely. Yeah. That's right.

No, it's Yeah. Yeah. It's not cool. Change the direction of this. All I was going to say was uh I was I was uh I was in graduate school doing uh uh pulse icy fusion work when uh I went to a conference to present. I was introduced to Eric Davis, how put off uh and Sunny White and Oh, Sunny White, right? Yes. Now mention Sunny White. During OAP, it turns out basically Davis was helping write that book at the time for BB. What a book. What a book. That book

opened my eyes, man. Yeah. So, you think Sunny White, you know, is was a NASA engineer. Eagle was trying Eagle works, sir. And he was trying to implement the Al could be a warp drive and I think now he's funded by DARPA. He's a company called Limitless or something like that. Do you think there's anything to Oh, absolutely. Dr. White is right on the money. You think so? Oh, yeah. Because NASA's public Have you noticed he hasn't published anything lately?

Always a sign. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And I think they said it failed or something. That [ __ ] happened right before Ningly Yeah. Interesting. Um so this like Hampton, you know, uh Lingley incursion last year that we now are understanding, you know, happened. You know what I'm talking about? Hampton Air Force Base, you 17-day incursion where it seems like drones are swarming around the area in our airspace. We have no defense against this. Um, it seems

question. I not going to go further into I'm not going to go further. Again, there's ET tech and there's man-made tech. Many roads lead to Rome, but there's only one V up here. If it's adversarial, it's awful and and if it's some if it's some advanced tech, they've got it way away from their shoulders over our territory

where it could be down and captured by us and assess attribution and do any reverse engineering. It's the only reason I'm skeptical of an adversarial war. But at the same time there were witness reports they hear about that they were like lawnmowers there was they were tell what do you do with that you I think we remember the reverse engineering part Lazar speaks to this how why he was there to begin with he was there as a replacement for someone that had gotten killed trying to what use a blowtorrch to go through this re

again again why did they never crack that because because their bucket is expulsion to engineering the super I don't think we can do that. But I think there man-made tech that can go around and again the most complex of problems has the simplest of solution depending on perspective. What if we found another perspective which is the same problem? So, you have

spoken publicly with a guy named Ashton Forbes who is a big proponent of these MH370 videos. And these are these videos where you see these three orbs and they seem to circle around. The MH370 is this Malaysian aircraft. It was on CNN for like, you know, a couple of months and it seemed like this civilian aircraft carrying passengers just disappeared in the Southeast Asian territory. And uh this guy Ashton Forbes took to Twitter maybe around a year ago saying he thinks

but there must be a destination so there must be a fourth or there must be a fourth orb so you think this is it's not me Dave Rossy came up with this idea that there must be a fourth orb I think he's one right on the Honey Dave Rossi is a very interesting engineer that should be looked into as well. Very smart, brilliant. Teleporter a commercial airplane. And where did the airplane end up? Or is it the plotter that All I'm saying is when I saw that thing

open up, I saw the pis effect on action and I told Ashen Ford that was his first podcast, hard truths podcast. I told him this is the Pis. So you think we have room temperature secret those orbs also speak to uh AGI artificial general intelligence autonomy autonomy so we're talking about I think I don't know it's funny I just

interview da da da I just interviewed Matthew Pines and he goes he goes there's an iron triangle he the he goes AI quant Phantom and the Grush stuff. He says or he was talking to somebody. It was like you know deep in national security world or whatever. He was like the you know triangle the connection between those three things is somehow this incredible technological Again cross domain disciplines coming together fusion of these ideas

resounding into what disruptive technology exactly what Jack was talking Very interesting. I hope one day you give your your correct name because you're brilliant. People should know you as you are. You're welcome, sir. Do you think that any of this stuff makes it into our civil infrastructure? I mean, we're sitting in uh decaying by, god forbid, a third party, not even a country. I don't think this is hard to

physics stagnation we have to our physics has to be stagnated because can you imagine some nut some effing person that hates the world engineering this? Well my hope is that the these nanoructured 3D lises turn out to be really hard to make. U interestingly it would be fabs like TSMC to be a two nanometer structures you would need sub nanometer you need the sub angstrom hstrom is 10 -10 m where

nanometers 109 to manufacture those but what if there's another way what if there's a resonance-based way of fabrication that's not based on material composition that's not based on fabrication method of fabrication protocols procedures Just That's simple. You don't want a nut figure that out. That would be bad. That would be a bad day in hell or heaven.

Either way. What do you want the world to know? What what sort of message do you have for people out there? We need to unify 100%. Need unification. We need people to come together. And if these ideas can bring them together, then so much better for it. But too many things are dividing us now. And what we need is a unifying factor. Do you want to build a UFO to take us over Earth? I want

what I want to build is something that can defeat an external enemy, one that's external to Earth. So let's say somewhere close to Proxima Santoriu as we speaking right now an alien armada is being formed. I would like for us us everyone in this room to come together and with other people bring together our our minds

to create in what what see one thing about what Dr. Eric Weinstein is saying is that he thinks that the best of the best, the greatest physicist should be brought together to come up with these ideas. I think even Joe the plumber can contribute given common sense and enough knowledge. As a matter of fact, look at Ashlin Forbes. I am completely surprised what he's been able to achieve in almost a year studying this physics on his own.

Look into his podcasts. This guy's come up quite a bit. He does not have a physic physics pedigree. Again, what if Joe the plumber comes up with the uh physics idea of them all, whatever that may be? But one again that helps us come together as an earth. This interview is coming on the backs of uh congressional hearings in Washington DC around the existence of non-human

from those hearings that one could not for example coming together unifying these concepts into something that can save us homo sapiens sapiens from an external enemy. If we continue on with this trickle by trickle disclosure this again immaculate constipation we will get nowhere absolutely nowhere. Do you think that um there are deeper programs than immaculate constellation?

You think that's sort of I guarantee that arrow will get nowhere in no time at all. So in other words nothing will come of it again. you should come with me. They'll generate another great report that will say absolutely nothing. So, uh there's a Senate hearing this coming week into Arab's activities and Arab has recent report, you should come with me. That would depend on my higherups. Yeah. And uh I would uh because of my

anyway because of certain personal issues uh I'll need a riot if my decide I would be of use gladly but again please let someone drive there. I need a drive. That's all. Jack, do you have anything else you want to get in? appreciate you doing this. The honor was all mine, sir. And please, you are our intellectual equal.

Trust me. What you certain things you've said during the interview make me say that. I would not say that otherwise. I don't come up with stuff. I have decent instincts and you know maybe I would off it is a glimmer of hope and we need all the hope we can have. Right. Appreciate that man. I appreciate the hat. I'm going to wear that. Yes, sir. Please. Please, dude. Yes. Looks really good. Woohoo. Looks good, brother. All right.

All right, bro. The end.