The Most Important UFO Investigator On The Planet (ft. James Fox)

couple of versions of out of the blue uhuh so I count that as almost two but it's at least one and a half cuz I spent another two and a half years completely revamping it so I did 50 years of denial then it was out of the blue I a blue director's cut I know what I saw the phenomenon moment of contact shoot I guess this would well six and and the and the program which is coming out we just had this amazing screening last night with Hal put off of all people who's a star of the documentary itself our detection platforms are so well

Advanced so we could see a lot more then it really is a zoo of options and possibilities and it's just incredible and so I I hope you're very proud of it and uh I know this has been a long slog many decades for you and I I feel lucky to kind of ride the coattails you know kind of draft aerodynamically behind people like you so I'm I'm very grateful to you and thank you for for do oh thank you I love seeing younger people the new generation recognizing how significant the story is it's it's it's uh you know

I used to often ask people when I was first started out they'd go you don't you know you don't actually believe in this [ __ ] do they literally would say that to me and I'd say well let me ask you if it were true and I'm not telling you to believe that it's true but if it were how significant of a story would you give it and everybody says be the biggest story in history I was like well I'm convinced it's happening so it's not a story that's easily just dropped right yeah kind of changes everything totally

from from math science physics to religion to to to everything and it's interesting I was with Danny shean as you know you're friends with him as well just interviewed him and he was talking about the root of the word uh religion is relig religare which means to relink the Latin root of religion is religare uh which is like to relink and so in some ways I think what you're doing is relinking us to our true kind of epistemology which is knowing that these

other beings might exist and may maybe in the past we we did know that and and we've forgotten for a very long time I don't know what do you what do you think well I think what's really exciting about it is that the phenomenon I refer to um transcends politics transcends religion transcends borders it's one of the few topics that is really encouraging to see both Democrats and Republicans working together on yeah we're going to uncover the cover up and I hope this is just the beginning of many more hearings and more people

coming forward about this we should have disclosure today we should have disclosure tomorrow the time has come and it's that that really excites me because we're live in such polarized times so to see that and for people to recognize like this is bigger than all of us right this is potentially has something to do with the bigger picture of who we are our our place in the universe and our very existence so it's it's very exciting I mean people ask me like do you think it's scary I'm like no I don't think it's scary at all yeah I think it trivializes our differences

totally and and in many ways I think people always worry about it sort of debunking or overthrowing religion I think it reinforces religion I think if you actually look at a lot of biblical stories uh that stuff becomes a lot more real and less mythical and so I think in some it's reinforcing and and this sort of Cold War era kind of low energy thinking of like you know we can't accept this this truth might just not make sense in fact it might actually reenchant us I interviewed a theologian at Berkeley named Ted Peters way back

from my first film UFO's 50 years of denial because everyone was like well it conflicts with religion and he's like no it doesn't and he gave of course he's a theologian at Berkeley and he's also like part of the science uh uh you know science and theology at Berkeley University so he's like there's room for both and there's for all God's creation you know it's we're we're just part of a much bigger picture and I thought that was cuz I thought that was an important aspect of

of accepting the phenomenon not being afraid of it or assuming that it was demonic yeah or just because we can't explain it doesn't mean we shouldn't look into it or doesn't mean that you know totally it doesn't exist religions there are beings between man and God on the in the Consciousness chain so to speak so well I mean gosh you think about it imagine caveman watch this a flying saucer descend out of the sky they'd probably think of them of gods you know yeah or think about us landing in you know North Sentinel Island or

French Polynesia back in the day you know it's like what what are these things what's going on so well yeah it's I'm so excited to be here I I don't even know where to start I mean there's so many jumping off points but how did you get into guess UFOs to begin with so I had a really good friend this guy Renee Harris and um in high school and uh we when we when we graduated at 18 we uh we flew to Europe we bought an old beat up uh Fiat 131 in London and we

painted the doors we wanted to kind of spice it up a little bit so we pained the doors red and the rest of the body was white and we're we're going to take this car and we're going to drive it all the way down to Port Portugal and I remember my aunt was thinking oh my God these guys aren't going to make it to the to the Chan to the English Channel right and so we drove across Europe together in this old Fiat 131 and and uh just had a wonderful time and and um that was like six weeks across Europe and then he flew home a little early and I stayed on and we re we just kind

of you know life happens and we just kind of lost contact for a couple of years and then I came back and we reconnected when I was like 23 and he was all into like UFOs and alien spaceships and Roswell and and I remember thinking to myself God what a bummer man I'm going to lose one of my best friends I'm GNA have to cut this guy loose cuz he's clearly lost his mind I'm serious I I was what a bummer I was like this is such a bummer it was like one of my closest friends you know and

so I was like lamenting about it at the work I was a I was a uh kind of a go for at a production facility in San Francisco and there was a guy that was my boss uh Richard vanle and I said Richard and I really looked up to him he's very smart and and really just educ really great guy so rich just my buddy and man I'm have to cut him loose he's just all into like these UFOs he's talking about and he's talking that an alien spaceship crashed in Roswell and I

was expecting him to go oh my gosh thank God you cut that he goes James you haven't heard about that you haven't heard about Roswell I was like how would I have no I haven't heard about Roswell he goes ah yeah the US government actually admitted that they recovered I said really so I started like looking into it reluctantly and I thought wow there's something going on I I want to know what's going on would you ever open up Roswell and let us know what's really going on there so many people asked me that question I know it sounds almost ridiculous but it's actually the real question sounds like a cute question but

it's actually there are millions and millions of people that want to go there that want to see it I won't talk to you about what I know about it but it's very interesting but roswell's a very interesting place with a lot of people that would like to know what's going on yeah so I and that was it I went to a few conferences I met some some military folks and I thought I think I'm going to make a documentary on UFOs and I remember my dad who was a mainstream journalist and uh he was like

son you have lost your marbles you've got to reconsider he said it's a deadend street it's not going anywhere don't waste your time and uh of course that drove me even even and uh and so I stuck my teeth into it and and I made my first dog it's interesting too it's like people on the outside looking at UFOs often just assume there's nothing there but I think the second you like take it Ser it's like almost like a week into taking it a little more seriously

you start to gather probably enough data even in that week to make your like probability that there you know there's something there something here where the investigation like it becomes very clear like pretty quickly actually once you kind of flip it looks like that we have a problem here that needs further investigation yes okay so I remember when I was 19 I was dating this girl Rachel Miller and she was a year older than me and she goes oh my previous boyfriend was really into UFOs and I

it was let's systematically downplay UFOs through media books movies everything cuz what's funny about a pilot claiming to see something that he can't explain that's actually should be of concern yes some of them appeared to remain stationary in winds Aloft move against the wind maneuver abruptly or move at considerable Speed without discernable means of propulsion um that's pretty intriguing I mean you're picking up something on radar you're seeing it visually the towers got it and yet this policy of ridicule and laughter

just really stuck and it was a very effective I have to hand it to him it was very effective it was a very effective campaign and it was kind of in some ways the Constitution for Blue Book like it became the Mandate for them to you know swamp guas and you know the lights and what you know the easy ways to rationalize explain away you know what was actually going on and I think there's actually this 1971 document that came out of Australia from The Joint intelligence organization by their head of their nulear division named Harry Turner between 1952 and

makes the case that there's this cleavage almost where the cia's office of scientific intelligence splits off and they're studying the real stuff and then you have the Air Force and blue book and it's just this kind of fake sham you know understaffed job exactly so I remember uh jacqu talking about a document that he accidentally found in the files of Dr jayen heinik Who was the scientific adviser to Project Blue Book in my association with Project Blue Book I don't I know very well that it was not

a scientific project also I also know that they never never would notify the media when an interesting case came up they did everything they could to keep it down so they definitely withheld information um and jacqu worked with uh Dr heinik and I guess heinik was asking him to help organize his files and he came jacqu valet Came Upon a file of of a document that was classified that he

shouldn't have seen uh that basically talked about this a program that paralleled Project Blue Book but it was way underground with way more funding way better scientists all these things the document revealed an ultra secret highly funded scientific investigation working parallel to Blue Book unknown to all but a select few the letter was signed by HC cross director of exotic Metallurgy at Batel National

Bluebook was just a dog and pony show the phenomena by the way is an incredible movie and I want to say half my friends got converted into believing in in UFOs from that movie it's just so comprehensive and detail oriented and um yeah I I remember that part of of that uh movie and and then I interviewed Jo and I think I had forgotten that there was a deeper program Than Blue Book and he goes there was you know there was a deeper program that the Air Force had around this this stuff they had a real project going on that was secret okay is

that true and the Air Force did oh I didn't know that um and in this Australian document they do mention Freeman Dyson Edward Teller had you know father of the hbomb Robert oppenheimer's mentioned John Wheeler so guys who are you know we just made a $130 million movie on Oppenheimer it would be mindblowing if he you know was part of any of the UFO stuff and there's a book by William Steinman called you know um UFO crash about the Aztec crash retrieval and they say Oppenheimer was part of the retrieval team it wouldn't

surprise me because if you you know if these accounts are true and of course I believe they are these crash retrieval accounts you'd want the the best mines you would you need the best you need the best mines so yeah Auto yeah of course you would and you have these weird you know so Oppenheimer was facing this King karoo court it's documented in the in the Nolan movie you know supposedly the kangaroo court was around you know his sympathies for the com you know Communists or whatever shmooing with socialists in the 30s and 40s whatever

Eisenhower explaining that a secret group of scientists and military men had been created by President Truman to study the UFO situation and to keep a lid on it and so the guy who might have been on Truman's you know official UFO panel Eisen 's official UFO you know advisory team is heading up the kangaroo Court basically stripping Oppenheimer of his Q clearance and there's some very weird quotes in that transcript as well it's it's online now and you have Von neyman defending Oppenheimer saying uh

you know don't don't blame him too much it took him a while to accommodate to the new Buck Rogers universe that we're living in so it's like like weird stuff like that like why are you referencing Buck Rogers you space travel time travel you know strange stuff like that and then he and and Oppenheimer keeps saying a lot happened between 45 and 49 he keeps saying that really and when did all the crashes happen a lot of the crashes 45 49 and if it were really about you know leakages in the uh Manhattan Project or socialist

sympathies or whatever that would be 41 through 45 it wouldn't have anything to do with so anyways yeah well you know it's funny because people often ask me because I've had an I've been I'm actually quite skeptical at a lot of the cases that I've reported on over the years I didn't believe when I first heard about them I didn't believe Roswell why would I believe Roswell if an alien spaceship crashed and live aliens were recovered how do you cover something like that up with the level of involvement with all the different military folks you know that's that was the skeptic in me going this is

impossible right one of the things I've learned over the years over the decades is to suspend judgment and at least listen the testimony and and review the evidence because I have that knee-jerk reaction of that's impossible like but it's good it's good you have that yeah because I think you wouldn't be where you are if you just if your knee-jerk reaction was credulousness you just believed everything you know I think I think it it adds an element of trust for people when they watch your movies I think of like okay well that that old

that's a slippery slope right particularly when I you know I remember when I did the phenomenon I got that really big break and I got an interview with Senator Reed former Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and he wouldn't sign off on the I don't blame him he wouldn't sign off on the movie until after he could see it right well I had excuse me an alleged Landing case in Ru Zimbabwe 1994 where roughly you know there were 66 school children reported there were 100 school children in the playground when it happened we

saw this like a silver thing down thing it was a silver oval thing that um flew past really slowly I saw the bigger one and a spaceship like four or five of them it was red green and yellow there was this big ship it had these lights these patterns and it FLW and a lot of them reporting these little entities and then there's telepathic communication with these little entities well that's in the movie that said to read is it I'm like he's going to take a look at this movie and go take me out right yeah yeah but I wanted to do it in a way where I

had that skeptic in the crowd or I'm presenting my case to a jury and that's how I think about it when I'm editing films yeah I'm not catering to people that already know about the phenomenon of course I want them to enjoy it too yeah for obvious reasons but I I'm thinking about that skeptic I'm thinking about the one that's constantly accusing the phenomenon is only having anecdotal evidence well excuse me there's so much more than anecdotal evidence beond so much more yeah I actually think the quote uh extraordinary claims require

extraordinary EV extraordinary evidence is massively overused when it comes to UFOs because I think we have extraordinary and I think the better thing is extraordinary evidence requires extraordinary investigation and there are a few people yourself included you know I could name four others or something it's like a very short list of people that are actually doing the extraordinary investigation but we have we have we're oversaturated in data we have an abundance of evidence it's really about people's uh epistemology and beijan reasoning where I just got hammered for so long on that that it was

like I got so tired of hearing that but people would say that to me all the time and I'm like photographing radar visual like all these you call that anecdotal that's not anecdotal that's everything but having the craft in their possession right no you you are told as a kid or something this can't be real and you're putting it a priori in this bucket of not real and that's it and you you have to admit that at a certain point if you if you actually sat down you were locked in a classroom and you were shown slides of these very real artifacts all of which you've uncovered you'd have to

come out being like okay my base case is there's there's something real here and then we have to invest figure out how to classify it it's called The phenomena cuz it's hard to classify but there's something going on so I yeah I'm with you it's Global it's ubiquitous it's like people say to me like well what conclusions have you drawn from all the years and because I'm coming to the that I'm probably not going to know what's really going on I'm probably not going to ever get the full picture right

yeah I mean maybe but I doubt it you might maybe maybe you're taking on a craft and giving it download but but you know one of the summaries I would give that I feel quite comfortable the conclusion that I have reached is that the phenomenon is has the ability to manifest itself it's ubiquitous and it can manifest itself in like a physical form like technologically like an engineered craft yeah but also has a psychic

ability as well right I remember interviewing this guy who was a former I think he was a North Northwest Airlines anyway uh he's just he's actually in Arizona and he just a real honest sincere salt of the earth character that was a pilot and had an incredible experience and and uh he goes he goes ah there's something else and and and and I said well what is

it and he goes ah I can't I can't tell you and I could tell he was like he knew how ridiculous what he was about to say sounded you know because he's a very pragmatic guy and just a grounded pilot you know a commercial pilot and um I said no give it to me you know tell me you know and then he finally goes talk to me yeah he was a it was it North Northwest Airlines I'm sorry I'm trying to remember the name but yeah um he said that and that was like kind of the first

time where I really learn started learning about the psychic nature that a lot of people have seen craft and had that communication you know pretty instant communication or be you know it was like in the world all the trees will just go down and and there will be no air and people will be dying mhm and those thoughts came to you had you had those thoughts before this experience no no and did how

did those thoughts come to you did they come to you from the craft or from from the man the men which sounds crazy to a lot of people that don't aren't familiar with the phenomenon but there are a lot of Close Encounters of the and I remind people CU I deal with one in the program right this is nothing new there's been reports of Close Encounters of the Third Kind dating back to the early 1940s and probably Millennia right but at least

modern day versions of that and I remind people it's like okay this I know this sounds a little crazy however let me remind you yeah that the very person who documented or researched UFO cases for the United States government Dr heinik uh from 47 to 69 or 70 um he's the one that coined the phrase close and counter of the first kind close and counter of the second kind and close Encounter of the Third Kind so that's been going on for decades for decades yeah very credible reports can we get into the

story you tell in the program of a face-to-face interaction US Air Force Master Sergeant Jason sanss was stationed at the nearby Nellis Airbase with the 67th intelligence group at the time this previous week the UFO came on the Range flew right by the what we called the schoolhouse because that's where we did the training and it went down into the valley and continued on so they have actual video of it and that's what you see out there in the public this Nellis range UFO E1 control doesn't

know what typ aircraft it is either that's his truth yeah we have the names of the other on duty military personnel yes we have a location and we have a yes I opted to report on it even though I don't I can't prove that it happened yeah but I think it's a pretty compelling account what's the location it was excuse me um Nellis Nellis testing range in Nevada

1994 it was August it's pretty wild it's pretty wild I mean you've you've heard but it doesn't not pattern match to Other Stories like I don't know if you have you heard of uh Colonel Charles Hall I was given a clearance to allow me to go anywhere anywhere in Dreamland as long as I was alone I discovered that up there at the North End of Indian Springs Valley which you can see on the map in the state of Nevada here in America that there was a base which the US Air Force

didn't know but that's what he said it looked like but he goes uh you know a lot of times when I if you want me to go into the story I will yeah okay so and the reason why I'll tell you this is that I did not believe what I'm about to tell you guys and I'm sure a lot of your audience have heard of this heard about this case um it was probably in the early 1960s maybe 64 65 was it 64 yeah I don't know the exact date and there was a landing case that I was investigating at sakur New Mexico that happened April

24th 1964 and in the process of investigating that was one of the cases that caused Dr hinck to do a complete 180 on close en counters of the Third Kind and I'll go back a little bit uh jacqu valet had just met with Dr at rright patteron Air Force Base in Dayton Ohio in 1964 and he was telling heinik look you got to look into these cases that are classified in Project Blue Book files as psychological because those are reports

with the guy wrote the book on it Jay Ray Sanford um Soro saucer in the Pentagon pantry and um and I come across these articles uh in the UFO bulletin by a woman named carral Lorenzen excuse me if I don't pronounce her name correctly but she was writing articles about a landing that happened at Hallman right around the same time very very credible reporter she was thought in the UFO Community to be very credible like if she put something out there it was thoroughly researched and

it was there was substance to it so I read one article and she had uh I think some military officials that were interviewing uh they might have been Anonymous and then another one was a pilot so it's two separate articles about this Landing hman so that was pretty much the first credible time I'd really heard about it right cuz I just quickly dismissed it in the past well I'm going all right well I'm investigating a case The Landing case in zakuro hman is just a stone throw away from zakuro where where the crow flies I

believe that the creatures you know that that that sakuro happened it was the case that turned around heik why not have cameras rolling and have it happen just you know at White Sands or Air Force Base which is really close by so I was open to it mhm then I I watched uh I'll give you the truncated version I watched the documentary UFOs past present and future by em Ander and alen Sandler and that talks about an event that may have happened or may or that

unprecedented cooperation with active and retired military personnel going on to Air Force bases like these guys something was up with that movie during that time they had unprecedented assassin so anyway so then I get in touch with the filmmakers &er I interviewed him and he's like yeah that you know that event really happened we were going to we were going to get the the the video and and feature it in the film and then uh the last minute they they pulled it whatever and so then I'm talking to alen Sandler about it and

this is going on over a couple of year period and alen's like oh I saw the film excuse me you what he goes I saw the film I said the one at Vander Air Force base with the no MM the lane at hullman I said you saw the film and I was driving my car and what I do a lot of times is I I like to close my eyes and listen to words and have those words recreate the imagery in my brain so it's almost like I'm reliving The Experience through them right so I pull the car over I said Allan what did you see I

need every detail like what did it look like he goes well he goes it might have been a training video I don't know but it was real flying sauce and there were three flying saucers that came in over the base it was I don't know what time of day but it was it was Daylight and there and the film there was film of three uh discs at a relatively high altitude coming in over the base and then two peel away and one and they were escorted by military jets and then one

comes down he said it was like a like a leaf almost he he thought it was in trouble the way it was flying but I've heard that description from a lot of people that it kind of flutters like floats down like that right so that he described it he said it was kind of floating and he's like well it looked like it might have been in trouble I'm thinking to myself that's I've heard that before the way it's coming down so it comes down he goes it it landed and um he goes you know James it was just like a sci-fi movie you know those doors just open and there's no seam or anything he said

that's what it looked like it opened and dropped and then two uh individuals beings aliens whatever you want to call them this is according to Alan Sandler he told me this they came out and they flanked the stairs on either side and then the main guy got out and he had like a Egyptian he described it as Egyptian the description in the film is very similar and a being with big eyes and vertical slits tall Egyptian hair or head gear I don't

know uh vertical eyes vertical slits big eyes big nose mouth almost non-existent little slit very small chins and came out and had a he said he had a device that he thought was an interpretation you interpreter you know to help communicate and that they met with Military Officers and then they got into a Jeep and then they went off and then the film just ended with the disc just sitting there on the on on on the base and Paul Charle

Google it with Bob eeger talking about it are you conspiratorial at all about the head-on collision I mean it's a bummer definitely a bummer yeah you know and then Allan didn't tell Bob egger and then I when Allan told me I I've actually got video footage of it somewhere I did a in Bob's dead now Bob emer's dead but I did an extended interview with Bob eer this craft came in there were three of them one of them wobbled down to the ground and landed and apparently the base was alerted to

it and uh went out to meet it and uh the this craft door opened and three normal looking no they weren't normal looking but short five foot high people came out with sort of a blue gray complexion and they had a some sort of a headgear on and uh he describing this to us so Allan so I got I get on the phone I was in I think I was in was I in Florida anyway I got him on the phone and I said Bob did you know that

your partner the the guy you did the movie with saw the landing footage at Alman airb base and he didn't know and Allan never told he like well you know I you never told and I got the two of them talking on the phone about it but Allan swears up and down that he saw that footage what did you see on the film was it color was it black and white was black and white it was black and white I saw you me black white friend but it was nothing other than what we end said in the book we see this thing this round thing and it wasn't that stable funny

part and it landed and a door opened and guys come out looking like they were outer space guys I think about if I could could I sway a jury at this point I don't know but I based on the research that I've done on the Hollowman Landing case I kind believe it happened yeah you know and so that I hear this other story that I'm reporting on in the program now yeah to those skeptic out there I can't prove that it happened I certainly can't but

we have a date we have a location and we have three other active at the time on duty military personnel you know let's dig into it further for sure yes you it's too significant if it happened it's too important to just dismiss because of a lack of of evidence well it's hard to look into something if you don't know about it of course yeah no and I think widening the surface area on something and saying I think it's true yeah but we also need to look more into it a very valid form of right I

from being exposed to the being I tell me about that process it's just crazy because so a little known fact I um was doing out of the blue in the in the late 90s and this case had just happened a couple years earlier and I had a partner this guy Tim Coleman who's a former BBC correspondent super smart guy walking encyclopedia massive respect for this guy and and uh we were like mapping out out of the blue and we were putting

ideas on the wall and and he's like ah bloody H mate we got to go to Virginia Brazil and investigate this UFO crash I was like oh God I think I picked the partner you're telling me that live aliens are walking around the town of a UFO like I looked at him like oh God please not only did I not look into it but I refused to look into it for I think 10 years maybe so when I made the documentary he called me up he goes bloody hell man you wouldn't even look

into it back in the day I said I said you're right I'm sorry he goes I was the first person to tell you about that case that you didn't plenty well believe me and I said I didn't Tim I'm sorry I tell you what I'm going to give you a special thanks Credit in the movie so I gave even though he had nothing to do with it that's awesome that he planted the seed in the 990s and I remind your audience like I'm making a documentary on UFOs my second one and I heard about that story and I refus to look into it because it's like how is a UFO going to crash yeah live aliens in broad

cowering hiding suffering like come on man really and the whole world's not going to know about that that's I I was like please like that's impossible but you know what I started looking into it I traveled there five times over a 12year period And I walked away going oh my God that

sticking my teeth into it I don't know if I should use their names or not but a couple of very prominent researchers in the field that I have tremendous respect for were telling me don't do this you're going to tarnish your reputation you you know you're working with all these Intel folks and people you've got a great level of access you're going to burn you're going to just destroy all that by reporting on this well I think you proved them wrong you did an amazing job and you show you know like this guy Carlos duza and this Shi character who was he he was a military officer right

who's who's handling the being did more than handle it he just manhandled it grabbed it can you imagine no total Cowboy just gets out of the car and grabs it and then it B that basically ends up killing him as a result of the side effects he sort of occurred he had this oily greasy stuff on his body and apparently according to friends and family he was rubbing himself down with rubbing alcohol trying to get it off of him smell and the we were talking about this last night with Hal put off Chase Brandon uh wrote a a book called crypto

conundrum Chase Brandon is this I think it's pseudonym for a CIA guy yeah cuz you said he disaar appeared on you yes so yeah so I think Chase BR is a pseudonym and I think he's Hollywood Le his own and he writes this this book under his pseudonym but he writes about Roswell and I know it's a bit of a detour but it relates uh because he he talks about Hillen coder and you know one of the first CIA directors uh who dealt with Roswell and the readout on Roswell was this being and it was emitting this sort of sulfuric you know

thing and the women that you interview around Virginia also say I think it might have been sulfur like there was this is emitting this strong odor and in its presence it's it's almost like you know this like radioactive substance is like coming off of it a day later they could still smell it and also it smelled smell that that was there as soon as you entered the room yes it was and that's what struck me as as unusual why that this smelly junk would be piled on the General's carpet that was one of the few Recollections that I have that

didn't make sense I mean the hospital where the be were reported reportedly this they were done x-rays they had to close that Wing in the hospital for like weeks cuz the smell was so intense that's so insane

nothing really to gain by saying this in fact many of them feel kind of traumatized people knew the lengths that I went to to get people to go on camera like people think that they're just out there trying to sell no it took years we would find witnesses and they would like I am not coming forward period's not going to happen what's in it for me yeah I was already threatened my family was threatened I have nothing to gain by by testifying on camera why would I do that and the highest ranking military guy that you

interviewed around an Anon anonymized version of terrified he was like all the money in the world it's not going to happen I will not go on camera period not going to happen like this how'd you get it well I was like put me in the room with him right yeah okay so we are sitting here with military X um who clearly doesn't want his identity revealed which we're not going to do and uh he's going to provide enough detail not too much but enough detail on on

operations that he was involved with with the Virginia case I I I I look into people's eyes and I just like like look into their souls and just say this story is so much bigger than any one of us yeah that you know future Generations have a right to know like what is is it going to take what will it take to get you to you know what I mean I'm ready to tell you everything right now I do I look deep in their eyes because I communicate on a more spiritual level with people it's like

you know and and I and I remember when I arrived in Australia some of the researchers and I'm not tting my own horn I'm just I mean I'm really bad at a lot of things but some things I'm not bad at and and uh I the researchers when I arrived I was investigating this Landing case happened in the 60s they're like they like you know we've been going at it for 50 years and these particular Witnesses are never going to talk period I just just get me in the room with them I got two of them to talk after 50 years so I I looked this guy in the eyes we it

was so sketchy man we drove up into the depths of Brazil like 4 hours into the night north of Virginia wow and uh maybe 5 hours it was thunderstorm and there was lightning it was raining and we get up there and there's this like bar that kind of spills out into a dirt parking lot and there were it just felt looked I stood out so heavily you know when I got there and two guys walk over to our car they look inside then they get in the

back and let's go you know like all right so they're taking us somewhere else I don't know where they're taking me you know I'm driving I'm thinking God I hope this isn't a setup right you know and then they drive me to some other location and then we go to this bar and it's outside as well and we all talking he's just as paranoid as I am we were we were both paranoid yeah you know and he's looking at me like are you an agent yeah are you a secret US government agent I'm like no you can look me up you know i' got a reputation I've been doing this for 30 years like go ahead and Google me you know one of the reasons he

might have been paranoid is because he mentions to you that the body goes from hospital to hospital but it ends up probably going United States going to the United so we meet with him that window opens people because people go oh yeah people

just trying to sell a crazy story I'm like you have no idea what it took to get every single witness on camera it took years of begging and pleading you know and there's still people that we identified people that have the footage people that don't even have any physical evidence are terrified so there are people that have the footage of no question no question in my mind I've talked to people that have seen it how do we get that well so if I was there at the time for an extra six weeks I'm quite confident I would have come home with it how would you have done that

well because I was in touch with the people that had it right so the problem was like for instance give you an example why would they not they were freaked out oh my God people were freaked out without any evidence the people with the evidence they were terrified yeah ter how how did you even know I had it you know what I mean kind of thing like we were about one day away from my buddy Marco going with military X to this individual's house I was going to go he was going to Marco my part my counterpart was going to go to show the

footage apparently it was like it goes from as a military base into the town of Virginia and all the way back again so they filmed the the excursion going out the alien and then coming back again now I don't know in that particular footage that the alien was alive or not but there's other footage of the aling that was in the hospital that does have footage and I talked to the doctors that saw it and I knew the doctor that shot it wow he had just died of a heart attack so he went to his wife's house like's like so many leads the the the the um the chief of police in the area he had a photograph and one was alive

one was dead and there wasn't there wasn't one person in the town who said this was a hoax or Fab no no I mean a lot of people like oh yeah I've heard about it some people are like oh yeah no I believe it happened but nobody in and around said it didn't happen it's a hoax not one person sorry um so I you know just as this was happening you know you're investigating something for that long and you're getting this close to getting I mean all the people that we got to come forward the doctors the X-ray

the mayor of Virginia does he believe that this case happened as the Witnesses are reporting it to have with in 10t of the creature alive

them interview it's just like they're not lying like they seem kind of shy and afraid to speak to you and no way no way and uh anyway then you know we're getting close to this footage I mean it was it's pretty intense like I mean it's you feel like you're stepping on you feel like you're poking around that there are Extreme Measures taken to

keep this the lid on this story right so you could feel it when you're poking around out there you feel like you're being kind of w you know you sound paranoid but I tell you I got spooked I could just feel it right the military base calls the guy that we had just met with on camera calls him up hey um this is so and so at as a military base um there's an American uh filmmaker around you um he contact you at all did

you meet with him or yeah are you still living at this address how's the family oh wow I swear to God they got calls like that yeah so then he got the call the guy that we were going to meet now I just put him on camera they called him the next day no way yes so how how do they track that so that's crazy well granted we met with who do you think it is in the US you think they say like the CIA Global access the guy with the footage that was going to show it to my but my partner Marco yeah they summoned

him into the base and I don't know how far as a military base was but it had to be at least four hours MH from there MH they summoned that guy in so the so my guy the guy that we just put on camera who drove the alien around was like you need to get out of here just leave us like disappear do you know what happened mon sum no I don't no no no cuz I we left he's like you need to leave this is getting really

Lopez uhhuh right Eric Lopes and he was the alleged driver during the second capture of one of the alive creatures where his buddy Marco sherei jumped out of the car who's in the passenger seat and grabbed the thing you know according to the all the researchers that I talked to the military didn't say hey there's a UFO crash and Aliens running around they were like there's some unusual creature and be on the lookout it's being cited and it's in this area so they were so Eric Lopes just called his buddy who was

off duty they were real they were both military police but he called them up hey you want to join me I got this weird thing I'm doing tonight and he jumps in the car and off they go and then they see it cowering coming across the road stop the car it was pissing rain I believe it was pissing rain when it happened what's his name um Marco sherei gets out and grabs this thing doesn't think twice about it just manhandles it puts in the car sh off they go they go to a clinic and the doctor comes out was like I don't know what the hell that thing is get it out of here so then they

go to humanitas hospital and that's apparently where it ended up humaniti hospital and then the military came in and crazy but this is a side note and if I'm going on a tangent stop me in 2013 uh UFO researcher uh Lear Roger Lear he was in Los Angeles I was shooting in Los Angeles and I at the time even though I was covering Virginia and I was covering the landing case in Australia I had a specific Focus that

week on the witnesses from Ru Zimbabwe so I I uh made arrangements to I mean it's was like the stars aligned somehow and they all just agreed for the first time ever to get back together after 20 years of the case The Landing case in Ru Zimbabwe and during this time aerial School aerial school yeah aerial School 1994 uh I think it was September but I'd have to look into that in any case um so I'm really focused on that and making that all happen and people are flying in from all different corners of the world and I remember my financial guy at the

dying cancer and that he had critical things to share with me and I kicked myself because I kept trying to make it for him to come in and he got upset with me Roger fny was like you know hey man like you know you keep saying you're going to get me on camera what the hell and I said Roger I'm so sorry I've been really busy and this is out of the blue you approached me and I I I'm doing like 15 hour shoots every day 16 hour shoots I'm exhausted we don't have it you know so he said well you're not going to meet with me and I was like it's not that I'm not going to meet with you I want to meet with you he goes well at least take my t I went there and I wrote the book

on the case and so he he gives me these tapes and then I kind of forgot about it and then I digitized them and then I sent them back to him and then he died and I don't remember exactly what year that was cuz I it was all all thing went down so then I'm shooting the film in in 2021 2022 something like that 21 yeah and uh record time you know we've done a lot of research prior to that and and I'm like oh oh my gosh I've got those

Roger Le tapes so I take those tapes out I I had them digitized and I go through them I'm like whoa he got this person oh he did that oh this is amazing and so I'm going through him and I was like wait a minute he wrote a book too so I I buy the book I read the book and I'm like gosh the the book is basically a transcription of of of the tapes yeah right I'm like and met with this person met with that person and then not part of the tapes in his book

yeah he describes a meeting with these two doctors at a hospital that worked on the alien that was a liive I'm thinking oh boy this is pretty crazy this story like really they had telepathic communication like there's some smoke started to fill the room and there was like telepathic communic this is according to him in his book right and I'm thinking my god there was communication face to face with the aliens by the doctors and everything

else in the book is totally accurate because I have the tapes then he just goes off in a tangent about communication with these aliens in the hospital building but I so I find out who was he with yeah he was with Uber Uber Rodriguez who was a very prominent UFO researcher that happened to do like at one point he was the biggest Advocate that this happened there no question we have all these Witnesses toter to nothing happened and it was all just a big know blah blah blah so he did at one point he did a 180 so now the guy

won't even meet with me he's one rear Roger Lear he's he's deceased and then he was with another doctor I got a hold of that guy and he had just died so now dang it I I can't verify the claims I don't know who the doctors are right but according now had I met with Roger he would have told me who those doctors were on camera and I could have like looked into do you know what I'm saying so it's like but those doctors are still alive so I'm going to go back you should go back I'm going

back cuz I've got two forensic Pathologists that are coming that just came forward so I'm going to go interview them apparently they have some physical evidence left over from the from the case they talk about the bacteria that was On's body that they've believe killed him a

say anything about the bacteria I you know in my limited scientific knowledge no I have not gone and met with them physically but they had communicated some things in Portuguese to my buddy and I haven't had anything so I need to go there and there's other people I'm going to go meet with and I'm going to re-release kind of like what I did with out of the blue just revamp it bring it up to bring it up to date so anyway I getting off on a Tang but my point is is that it is extremely difficult getting people to come forward it's not like you just go there and everyone's like hey I want to sell my story no no it's exactly

actually passes in you know a more robust form than it you know got got kind of diluted last year do you think that this year we actually make some progress or well it's funny because so with the program again I'm talking about Crash retrieval my previous film was all about a specific case of Crash retrieval and the American involvement and uh but again I'm sitting there in the courtroom with a jury a skeptical jury and I'm thinking to myself how am I going to present this in a way that's going to make it palatable to mainstream right

because this is pretty crazy let's let's just call a SP is bait here you want to start talking about we have a super secret crash retrieval program that's been going on since at least World War II right uh I was informed in the course of my official duties of a multi-decade uh UAP crash retrieval and reverse engineering program that's you know people are going to go this is impossible so I was thinking about that when I put together the program I was

like okay I've got that skeptic in the audience I've got you know this the the panel the jury to to to sway and again I'm not talking about manipulating anybody I'm just talking about putting the evidence forward in a way that makes it digestible to to and I really think that we have created a very compelling case yes with the program that a very a very program like a crash probably does exist right yeah so that um that I think we accomplished

yeah I feel I feel like you did an amazing job and and did accomplish that I mean it's a maybe a little hard for me to say because I'm already bought in right but but when like when I have a really good friend of mine who's very smart guy he's a former teacher at Berkeley University and and he he watched some of it and he's like the stuff that's being said I I wouldn't even consider believing it but it was coming out of the mouths of rounds and Schumer and you know yeah yeah our most you know and then I'm looking at all this data and these reports and boy this is really hard to

dismiss you know like you really got me thinking and that's that's all like one can do I want the program to come out and get people to do more work on it dig deeper ask the right questions you know hold their feet to the fire like you know let's look at because you got a lot of noise right and it's like you got pushed back from the intelligence communities there's really nothing in it for them for the stuff to come out but they ain't putting the genie back in the bottle I'll tell you that much it's coming well I think there's a fight within the Intel Comm of course some people want it out other people don't want it out I get it you know it's going

to if an airline pilot uh has a sighting that when he makes that report to the FAA that it would come to Congress but I was told that the intelligence community did not like that and the bill was the amendment was not even heard committee I think it's time for this country to take back our country we need to tell the folks at the Pentagon they work for us God gam it we don't work for them it's a little scary I'm sure they have a lot of answers and I'm sure they have a lot of things that they can't answer because they possibly don't know or like you know you know what the

status quo is scary though you just like uh you know move forward on our current geopolitical trajectory and it's not good and so if if you have some sort of Hail Mary in the form of like some big paradigm shift as a result of like a higher life form just throw throw the Hail Mary now I could I think it's going to unite us yeah I think it'll unite Humanity yeah I really believe that do you think we'll we in our lifetime because all of these contact events are somewhat ephemeral there it's always

like like you have all these examples we were talking about it uh at the bar the other day you have all these examples of like these near misses where like you have in in the program frustrating you have you I landed every now and again you do you do I mean in the program you show like an incredible photo out of out of Scotland I don't want to ruin it so people should watch if we were you know sitting here and it was like Stanton fredman and Leonard Stringfield or something yes they probably would have said like we hope in our lifetime things shift on this thank you Stanton fre by the way love you brother absolutely

absolutely yeah we're standing on the shoulders of giants you know I'm I cried when he died he's I cried when he died fredman a physicist who's been involved in nuclear space and research for such companies as General Electric Westinghouse and General Motors he has studied and lectured on UFOs for almost 30 years such a genius sorry no no well I'm just I'm just saying so so um you know actually like Peter teal went on

Joe Rogan Rogan kept bringing up aliens it's like half of half of Rogan shows are like fully about yeah yeah he keeps bringing them up and up and um I think at one point Peter goes uh you know uh you you probably don't want to spend your whole life on this stuff because if you had started doing that in the 60s and you know nothing would have dramatically shifted or whatever and you could you could easily push back and say the last six or seven years post 2017 and a tip which you highlighted at

the beginning of the program my name is Leslie Kane and I'm an investigative reporter and I was one of three journalists who broke the story in December of 2017 about the Department of Defense secret program studying UFOs and that story was kind of a catalyst for a lot of things that have happened since has really shifted this stuff absolutely super important right but do things shift in a more dramatic way from here because I go back and forth there's some intuitive sense I have that in the next 5 to 10 years we get a big shift on this

and then there's some other sense that maybe it just keeps kind of muddling along what do you think okay I wouldn't have said this excuse me I wouldn't have said this 5 years ago but but I believe the momentum is there's a title wave at this point and yes there's push back and I remember people feeling discouraged after David grush came forward and testified under oath uh to a bipartisan group of lawmakers um wow I I sat there and I just I watched that from my phone it was

like one of the only times my son was like Hey Daddy let's go play outside let's go you know said son I need to watch this I'm sorry I'm watching this live I prom just give me I need an hour and a half and I'll do whatever you want to do and I was glued and funny enough I watched it from my phone live and I sat there and I think I remember I had tears just coming down my face because I've received so much ridicule and laughter for so long like my whole adult life you know getting laughed at and made fun of and I remember going to cocktail parties

and just saying would you do me a favor please don't tell people what I do cuz I'm going to spend the whole night just defending it and I don't want to do that yeah that's that's tough right cuz you yeah you bring it up it's funny when people ask what I do at this point I spend so much time interviewing people about the UFO thing but I but at this point like when people ask what you like oh I'm an investor or whatever which I that is a big part of my life but it's so much easier just like neutral like vanilla thing oh maybe they ask one more question go Tech startups you know whatever right but the the UFO thing

there times you don't want to talk about too cuz in either direction it's either their fanatic or there you know the way here's the way I feel about it now I feel like people will say you know they look at me sideways whatever and I just say you know what you're a Believer and I say well no it's not that it's you either know about it m or you don't yeah because it's not a question of believing or not believing I mean it's a reality it's happening now we don't have an explanation for it or certainly I don't

have a prosaic explanation for it I you know um but it's happening it's happening you know and there's no question there's an intelligence behind it yeah and it might be a myriad of different explanations I don't know you know I I don't know I'm open to it yeah but it's it's it's real and there's a non-human intelligence behind it and I'm convinced i' put my life on it you know behind that yeah yeah everything else there in my opinion is speculation but I know because I've talked to certain people that according

to them that seem to be in a position to know there are probably a handful of people on this planet that have the bigger picture but again that's do you think that all of those people are hardcore Intel or do you think some of these people exist outside of any sort of you know government military classification but they just have expanded aperture well I go back and forth because I I I don't know if I would but but I but I I me I know cases that I go I go to locations I meet with Witnesses that's kind of like what I do right yeah and I and I and I don't just

believe David grush like when he was testifying in those open hearings yeah I was like tears rolling streaming down my face like so I didn't believe it just because he's under oath and he's a high level intelligence officer of course he's incredibly credible he's an amazing human being I believed it because what he was saying aligned with my 30 years of research yeah absolutely and all the different locations that I've gone to particularly Virginia but I've investigated Roswell too I mean I've been out there I went to the th anniversary of Roswell yeah and the

advantage I had back then was there was a lot of momentum a lot of talk a lot of happening there were at least at least 20 people that were in Roswell at the time that I got to meet with when I was there they all all oh talking about the threats they'll be picking your bones out of the desert not they I had guys tell me this is what was said at the time um not only will they be picking your bones out of the desert but your family's bones out of the they told me that lots of different people told me

that I was just with uh the founder of a very prominent multi-billion dollar you know Fortune 500 company like Beyond you know reproach you this guy's not a liar exem yeah he's also super humble and like out of the Limelight actually as as a Founder he's like 20 years old detail but I'm I'm with them we're talking and you know um turns out he he watches the show and I'm like what you

what like you know why do you don't have time to watch you know Al he goes well let me tell you uh you know at the end of his life my grandfather was in you know the 9th Atomic bomber Squadron he was stationed at Roswell in 47 and he goes he wasn't there when the crash happened but he came back to base and he came back and he said that everybody was beyond spooked Beyond a weather balloon Landing Beyond some test dummy you know that the air force

keeps changing their story it's all BS or whatever but like people were pale in the face and and psychologically really messed up and so I when I hear a story like that from him and he said his grandpa he like an old school guy who would barely talk and he really started to come out like towards his death and so you hear thing and thing you know thing after thing like that you're like something happened there whole flock of microphones there they wanted me to they wanted to something comments from me but I wasn't that Liberty to do that so all I could do is keep my mouth shut

something really profound when I was making out of the blue and it's funny like some of the things that never even make into any of my documentaries are the things that Propel me more than anything else any other bit of evidence or bit of testimony that's on camera I was making out of the blue and the woman who owned the building where we were editing the film when I wasn't editing at my house we were going back and forth uh she was 88 and she told when she found out what we were doing she told my my partner

Boris who I've made he's been partners with me Bor zubov on all the films I've ever made since I was in my early 20s and uh Boris goes yeah the lady owns the building wants to meet with you I said really why he goes I don't know you found out what you're doing and wants to have tea I said oh okay he goes I suggest going have tea with her so I said fine biggest regret that I didn't put it on camera but anyway so we meet and she's like I heard you were doing this documentary on

UFOs and I said yeah and she's pouring me tea and and she's like I just want you to know I've never told anybody this but my it was either husband or almost husband boyfriend at the time in the early 50s told her he was a very prominent scientist that a spaceship crashed in New Mexico and that there were bodies Al I recovered she's I was told he told me that in the 50s and and she I'll never forget and

when he says that's what happened by golly that's what happened MH she say I couldn't talk about it with anybody but I wanted you to know that I said thank you that's that really resonated with me like course do you know what I mean like why would she do that why would she do that and we were just talking why would she do that we were we were driving over here and you were telling me about Buzz Aldren the second man to walk on the moon his sister what what what did she say I'll let you repeat it so well getting back to Roswell for a

brief moment transition of no because it actually relate this story also relates to this as well so Mickey Rooney I was working on a a movie set called The Legend of obie tager in New Mexico and I was working on my first film and and I was a movie I was an extra I was a prison guard and um uh uh I get the who so what else what else do you like to do Sunny you know and I was like oh here we go you know and I told Mickey Rooney and his wife Jan Rooney and whoever else was there oh I'm doing this documentary UFOs and oh and then

Jan Rooney goes my dad was a general in Roswell in uh in 47 and he told me that if what really if the truth about Roswell came out it would have a devast impact on organized religion she said that's what her dad told she's probably still alive anyway they both knew Buzz Aldren and they're like we can connect you with Buzz Aldren because I remember been out in the balcony we've been friends with him for decades and we'd be out on the

balcony hanging out and he would tell us these crazy UFO stories like really Buzz Al land on the moon with Neil Armstrong yes we'll get you an interview well while that was happening and I was working on my first film that I UL ultimately sold the Discover Channel um a buddy of mine was working as uh he was he was working as a bartender at an at an art gallery um they had a particular opening and he met a woman named Fay andne Potter and Fay andne Potter was Buzz olden's sister so now I meet with

fayan Potter at a restaurant in larksburg called the Left Bank we meet like my brother told me about a UFO encounter that he had while piloting a a jet a military jet I be honest with you I can't remember if she said it happened in the 50s or if it happened in the 60s but she said he was rattled to the core that he chased a disc as high as he his plane would go or to the point where it was going to be dangerous if he went

anymore but he was really rattled it was a disc according to her then she said the other thing that he had told her was that they were followed by something to the Moon she did not say anything about an encounter on the moon nothing that but that that there was something that they encountered that followed them to the Moon that did not appear it that was that freaked him out I saw this illumination that was moving with respect to the Stars we were smart enough to not say Houston there's a

light out there that's following us so that's what she told me she's like I think I can get you an interview with buzz and I don't know how much more of the story you want me to tell you tell all the way up okay yeah so now I've got Mickey Rooney and his sister sorry Mickey Rooney and fanne Potter Mickey Rooney knows Buzz Aldren fan Potter Buzz Aldren sister both going at Buzz Al saying you need to meet with James Fox so he agrees buzz aler and he says

well I'm on book tour right now and but I'll meet you if you want to if you want to come to Monte Carlo I'll meet you in Monte Carlo and I'm thinking to myself hell yeah so I borrow the money um excuse me I borrow the money to get the Hammer gear get my buddy Tim Coleman my partner at the time my girlfriend at the time Samara and we go to the south of France actually we flew to Paris and we took a highspeed train down to Monte Carlo and I was like when I got there I was like oh my God this place is so expensive the cheapest hotel I could find was like 400 euros a night yeah

sounds about right oh my gosh I was like I'm going to be broke in a couple of like and and Buzz kept like you know oh we'll have the meeting on Tuesday you know it was like Monday it was like Tuesday comes out oh I got some Wednesday you know and then it got to Thursday and I was like with all due respect sir I traveled all the way here just to meet with you got the cameras going I got I'm all ready to go and and uh I can't really afford to stay here forever you know he goes okay okay okay well meet me let just say it was a Friday meet me meet me tomorrow in the

lob in my hotel lobby No cameras rolling he said to me no camera don't have a cameras rolling I said I won't have any cameras rolling I'll meet you in the lobby so I show up a little early Tim Coleman I phot gra of this somewhere Tim probably still does and my girlfriend the time Samara sitting down in a cafe and we're having like a Quon and some coffee and the coner comes over and he says uh Mr Fox you have a phone call I actually speak for one of my one of my few College accomplishments I learned

uh Mr Fox is a telephone call for you uh Mr alen and I oh okay I was I was assuming he was going to be like hey I'm I'll be right down you I was like yes go pick up the phone I'm not doing the interview I said I said what what what do you what do you mean you're not doing it was like I I can't do it he Paul Allen just invested in SEI and he got labeled a a UFO freak or something and I can't jeopardize my initiative I'm working with Congress right now I'm trying to get money to

develop a rocket that's going to help put civilians in the space I I can't do it he's implying that he has something to say about UFOs but if he did it would hurt his reputation then he said he said How's my story going to change anything anyway and I said well with all due respect sir people of your caliber coming forward really helps Elevate this topic uh your testimony would be Paramount uh to to do that and remember this is in the 90s right yeah probably late 90s I I thought

to asked him but yeah it was a while ago and so uh he's like well I can't I'm I'm sorry it's not going to happen so that I was devastated like devastated come on right yeah I mean that's that's and then that would have been a earth shattering was devastated I was it took me a year to get over that one right yeah so then so well you know you know astronauts sign ndas

out I had fast forward probably 10 years again I have to remember exactly when I have talked to my buddy Tim but it was late 90s I'm almost positive anyway I break the story of the governor of Arizona 5 simonon well I saw a uh a huge craft just kind of come right over [ __ ] Peak um that was you know was just breathtaking of the fact that he saw the ca he saw the the massive UFO that he said was just had to be otherworldly

otherworldly so I broke that story I interviewed the governor of Arizona 5 Simon we we becoming friends and that catapulted me into I mean I got invitations on to every talk show I mean it was was unbelievable and and F actually said James is the one that broke the story with me he's the one that approached me he's he should get credit we're going on together whatever we do we're doing together real quick that's such an amazing Story by the way because he's a he's a governor

former Air Force guy and in the beginning he sort of downplays the thing makes fun of it in a press conference and then he he comes out later thinks to you saying no not only do I think it was real and and do I believe all the witnesses but I saw it with my own eyes which is just so profound you have governor of Arizona say and McCain was asking for information on all this stuff he friends with McCain too it's so wild I mean that's another case where it's just like how much evidence do you need Kurt Russell you know said he could have landed his airplane on it right yeah exactly he was flying around and he saw

I'm going on Larry King with f simonon and guess who's in The Green Room who Buzz Aldren two distinguished gentlemen an astronaut a governor different views from what you've seen I didn't see what he saw but you say you're waiting for people to come forward people have come forward high ranking military officials have come forward and talked about the the validity wow yeah the last contact I'd had with Buzz Alden was roughly 10 years earlier when he stood me up in south of France is that a coincidence or I don't know I he was they invited him on yeah

coincidence yeah weird so I'm going on live Larry King live with Buzz Aldren and fight Simington you know wait Buzz was going to be on with you yes live what Larry's just like space like you have a like what I don't know I didn't organize it you know but I'm looking I got a picture of I got a picture of him in the gr the woman goes no pictures Sir what are you doing click I shot a picture of Buzz Buzz getting his makeup put on yeah right and he kind of looks over at me I'm like

click got that somewhere so anyway so I said to I said to F I said five oh man oh man I'm going to like this and I told him a little bit of the story what happened I was like God he stood me up and I sent all this money and borrow all this effort I flew to the South and he goes James this is an iconic figure of like this guy is I mean you cannot disrespect him and you need like so I was like you know you're right

he was right and I was like I'm going to be respectful but I sat there knowing what I knew and I watched him lie on television and it was really frustrating and I did try to call him out a little bit and then I talked to F Potter right afterwards cuz of course he saw it you should have called him out you should have been like hey dude I kind of did a little going do an interview and you were going to talk about UFOs and I didn't know if his if if he was G if she was going to be okay with me putting out her name on national TV WEA was going to be cool you did the right thing you know

but I was really frustrated look in his eyes and like he was like so I was like I did bring it up and uh actually there was a guy um who did a a film on it uh covered it space film Darcy Weir uh and he kind of he found the clip on Larry King he interviewed me about it it was like you know that was that was kind of frustrating but anyway so I talked to F Potter I actually went to her 80th birthday and she said uh somebody's

gotten to him I said what do you mean she goes somebody got to him she goes he won't even talk to me about it anymore that's what she told me I swear that happened yeah no I I believe it so anyway so yeah there's again a classic example of how difficult it is every single interview is difficult to to get the better the witness the better the case the more unlikely they're ever going to want to talk yeah and the more the more uh Prestige the person has the

more they have to lose yeah they going on record it's not a career enhancing move for often not often not things are changing a little bit I think they are yeah you had Neil Armstrong I think he was winning the Congressional Medal of Honor something in the 80s and he goes there are great ideas undiscovered breakthroughs available to those who can remove one of truth's protective layers there are places to go beyond

that then he comes back and he dedicates the rest of his life to Consciousness research for 40 years I've been studying the properties of consciousness and it goes throughout all of Nature and matter and it begins with the quantum property that when particles are in a process together and they go apart from each other they maintain their correlation regardless of where they go which is just so so F Well any any I I had something really weird happen to me in during the making of of out of the blue

let's hear it so so we were in the building that I was telling you about the woman owned the building whose husband or boyfriend at the time I wish I could remember exactly told her that that he was a very prominent scientist that they recovered this uh that that that a flying saucer UFO and aliens were recovered told her that in the early 50s I'm in that building I'm editing out of the blue probably late 90s early

and we get into an argument me and this guy Tim Coleman who I just worked with a little bit on the program mhm and he was like bloody hell mate you know it's got to be like this and I said you know Tim actually no I'm the director and it's going to be and he's older than me and a smart guy but I felt really adamant that I wanted it like this and he wanted that he got really angry and he stormed out of the room and cuz I just put my foot down and you know I was like I'm sorry I'm not doing that you know and um he wanted to add like cheesy smoke to a

scene you know the kind of stuff that one expects with the UFO back in the day you know all the things I wanted to avoid he was like he wanted he thought it would spice things up a little bit or something I just it was a hard no good for you he got really aggravated he B he left oh slammed the door off he went 10 minutes later I'm sitting there it's on the third floor there's a balcony but I'm not on the balcony I'm I'm inside still editing I get a visual image in my head I see him with a

key clear as day it's like a film strip keying the right front fender of my car even need the validation of walking out on the balcony and looking down on the street below that's how positive I was I just carried on editing 5 hours later 6 hours later finished up the editing packed up my gear walked down to go leave and there lo and behold was the key scratch on the panel that I saw

there it was plain as day so I called to him told him hey I know you out of you out of frustration and you keyed my car I demand you take that back I demand you retract that statement how dare you accuse me of such a thing I said Tim listen I know you're upset but I saw it I know you did it and I'm okay like I know you were angry and but I I'm not going to you know go around telling him you know just get it fixed and we'll put it behind us it's not a big deal and he

demand you you know CLI about three or four days later he calls him he goes you're bloody psychic how do you know I said I I don't know man I saw it when it was happening how do you how do you explain that right how do you explain that I couldn't I didn't ask for it I didn't like and I have proof that it happened I I've got you know it it happened I saw it I knew exactly where it was it was like I was already outside looking down at my car how do you explain that's really weird I actually told how put off about it well I was going to say he could explain it yeah I

know but I told her I was like I had that experience I well there's something about you know there are two models of Consciousness one is that it is produced simply by the senses and it's produced locally and then there's another where uh the body is a biological collapsing function on a default state of Greater perception or greater omniscience and so actually if you cut off certain senses or silence certain things are the tank yeah like sensory deprivation you

sense more not less and so the the body is like a transmitter like you have in Consciousness you have The Binding problem of Consciousness right you have the battery so so you have like uh you know the occipital lobe you have the you know the prefrontal cortex reasoning you have warik area which is reading comprehension you have broka area which is speech you have the cerebellum which is movement right we have no idea though how those all mesh together uh to to create our seamless perception of like it's almost like you're watching a movie when you're you're conscious yeah and um

uh so so so what is that and then if you look at the radio a radio has its own binding problem so you have the capacitors the battery the antenna you have all the constituent Parts but you have no idea how it's playing of all these four seasons and you could take out a battery and you know it will it'll stop playing but that's just one of the components and in fact you'd have to know that it's tapping into something much larger it's tapping into you know an electromagnetic frequency that's allowing it to play the actual music and so um maybe you know this is something

I've sort of started to get interested in maybe there's an expanded version of electromagnetism that allows for more wave types than just your traditional uh um transverse herzan wave and then you know maybe maybe your brain is sort of an antenna and and and William James is a big fan of this called experiencers have a certain kodate nucleus and pame and the basil ganglia uh the kodate pame and basil ganglia is at the core of uh many of the

let's say the more mainstream things that we were claiming even before we had our first publication that theodate is the basically is a central node involved in intuitive and uh other um well crystallized and um fluid intelligence that could be the part that is an exactly because it it when people make going on around us but some people can detect it better than others right and it it allows you to yes and it's the neuronal density in that area that determines your ability to do this and

it's this ability to act on Instinct so it's not based on the senses that you're picking up in fact that area when hooked up to an fmri lights up when somebody makes a quote unquote brilliant move and go and a brilliant move is a move that makes no sense rationally it only makes sense in the context of a future endpoint of the person winning so it's almost based on you know their opponent making some dumb move that they somehow psychically knew about wow and to begin with so that part of the brain I I do

and yeah and you have in in Stargate H put off's program it was up for funding and defunding every year from 1972 to 1995 and every single year it got refunded in the 1980s the defense intelligence agency began project Stargate it was top secret it's actually Beyond top secret Dean Raiden a scientist worked on the program that employed about a dozen psychics and mediums for what for Espionage to see whether someone in the United States

could spy on other countries from here right just using their mind right did it work it did work and you have to think you know the amount of optical scrutiny a program like that would get they'd cut it off if it weren't working absolutely and you have the top guy Joseph mcmonagle winning a Legion of Merit for over 200 cases where he's adding to real intelligence and then you have Skeptics Jessica UTS who's a statistician at Stanford Ray Heyman who's a skeptic at Oregon they're coming in they're saying

we think this is BS they they go they they look at the data that's been you know revealed post 2017 and they come out saying we think there's something here that's unexplainable didn't they have an SR71 go down or a spy plane or You2 or something in Africa yeah in uh Zer in 1995 former President Jimmy Carter revealed that the CIA without his knowledge consulted a psychic to locate a missing government plane in Africa the plane had crashed in zire during his

presidency and despite extensive satellite searches it was still missing the psychic from California entered a trance and provided specific itude and longitude coordinates when the CIA focused their satellites on that spot they found the plane pretty incredible it's incredible and it had found it yeah and it had Russian Weaponry on board yeah so it's yeah what are the chance it's it's beyond probability there's something here and then it's hard I think why science doesn't accept it is

because it is not fully repeatable and it's it's hard to turn into instrumentation and you need but but exact you know what that means it means we're the Stone Age it's like with with quantum mechanics you had black body radiation which occurred in the we figured that out in the 1860s and but we we didn't exactly know that light came in quanta and so there's no way to harness any of this stuff or do anything with it you couldn't build you know semiconductors and all the stuff we use you know Quantum field theory for now uh because we just didn't

understand it but there's this anomaly that's happening right that's it's not fully repeatable you can't instrumentalize it but it's a thing that's measurable just because you can't explain it doesn't mean it doesn't it doesn't real in fact that leads to the next Paradigm anomalies lead to the next par if you read uh Thomas Coon's structure of Scientific Revolution you have to systematically look at the anomalies because that breaks the current model so I wow that's really yeah you know it's fascinating you know and and I'm kind of a nuts and bolts guy yeah I just I have been I I am but I'm

also have had some experiences that have to get me to be open to you know who knows well I think it's empowering I mean it happened to me I can't explain it and I'm not out there trying to prove to anybody that it happened fair enough if you don't believe me that's fine yeah but I think I think it's good to share because I think nine out of 10 people if you actually probe a little bit more you're like hey have you ever had like a really weird synchronicity that just makes no sense everybody's had that unless you're completely cut off I was 13 years old I was with my cousin Ian on

the Streets of San Francisco we were we were attending an older buddy of ours 18th birthday party our we weren't with our parents at the time somebody dropped us off we're going to go into the building in San Francisco downtown San Francisco and some creepy guy approached us and he was going to mug us or do something I don't know what and he he my cousin Ian was on one side I was on the other side and I was scared man I was 13 years old I was scared something bad was happening and we communicate he communicated to me telepathically he said on the count of

three I'm going to we're going to break you're going to go left I'm going to go right you're going to run as fast as you can I'm telling you I swear and boom just like there was like instant we just looked at each other and that was the plan wow but I was in a heightened state of you know what I mean yes that's what it happened I never questioned it it just happened yes yes but I'm telling you it happened because that exactly we executed exactly like the communication was instantaneous well I think some of the sometimes studying that yeah well I think humans are way weirder than we

realize and and there's something certainly are we are and the the VAR between I'd say the top ape and the you know or maybe not even ranking just the variance between like apes or dogs or whatever is just far less wide than the very there humans are you ever you I'm sure because of the line of work you do I'm sure you meet people all the time where it's just like what's going on with you you know like sometimes a very interesting way I don't mean that in a denigrating way like like there's you're on some sort of trippy thing and so it's

it yeah the defense intelligence agency documented the event in a great detail and it was sent to NSA the White House and the CIA the DIA assessment said this case is a classic that meets all necessary conditions for a legimate study of the UFO phenomena and that didn't end well for him no it didn't yeah

but he goes why you want to tell the audience what happened yeah so he was flying an F4 Phantom jet it was it was at night over tayron Iran I want to say it was 75 but it could have been 76 your audience have to look it up UFO encounter over Tyron his name was parvis Jafari and I remember I was working with Leslie Kane and I was about to go down to the bottom of the Grand Canyon on a two- week Expedition maybe even almost closer to 3we Expedition and Leslie and I were putting on this event at the national Press Club in 2007 where we're going to have all these highlevel

military and government officials from like seven different countries come and convene and talk about the reality of the UFO phenomenon and I thought i' be a really good example to demonstrate the global nature of what's going on right so she calls me up and I'm about to go down in a canoe in actually a wooden Dory with this guy I was shooting a short film on this guy who helped save the Grand Canyon from like five introduced dams during the 50s and 60s his name is Martin L amazing guy sounds like a hero yeah total hero Co and uh uh he was greeted like a king going down

the going down the um the the Grand Canyon of Colorado River in the Grand Canyon anyway I said Leslie I'm going to be off the radar there's no phones i' we have a satellite phone under absolute extreme emergency if one of us gets hurt we have the satellite I'm not going to be reachable at all she goes well my god well we got this event what are you doing parvis Jafari he he needs you know and it was like some astronomical amount of money to go from because they just George Bush at the time had said that it was the axes evil was Iran and so now

they're on the terrorist list and like trying to fly in the United States and he's North Korea and Russia yeah it was I can't remember but at the time it didn't help my efforts because I was like oh God now I need to fly this Iranian General in from tyan right so he had to fly to like Dubai or something for a week or two to apply for a Visa and I had to put him up in this hotel for like I don't know it was a week or it was two weeks it a long time and it was like really expensive thousands and thousands of dollars and and Leslie says

you know and that's not even sure that he's going to get his Visa what do you want to do you I says so I have to spend I'll just throw a number out there five grand maybe six grand Seven Grand whatever it was and I don't even know he's going to get a visa and then I have to fly him out on top of all that and she's like yep I said let's go for it let's green light this yes go so I go down the Grand Canyon I come out got the good news he got his Visa so he comes to DC and it's an incredible encounter it was at night uh he was scrambled to intercept some unknowns or an unknown and um he uh said

this this object was it was exhibiting a technology this is the 70s that was just so far beyond his jet like he was like it would be here and then it would be here in the blink of an eye like and it would Traverse these miles you were talking about like like you said it would just stop and it was but he got a lock on it and he got the I guess he got the the the green light or the authority to shoot at it right so he locks on it and he tries to shoot it and his whole cabin

everything locks up and he starts spiraling out of the sky or loses control and he was like I thought I was going to have to eject at night over you know Tyron and uh then the last minute he regain control but then in retrospect he told me on camera this was a very intimate cool moment you know on reflection of you know all these years to think about what had actually happened and he goes you know my biggest regret was why did I take a hostile position on this thing I could have

communicated with it in a friendly way like I you know like we have an unknown and I just try to shoot it I mean yeah so that was his biggest regret you know and it was very interesting but there was also a psychic too it's like it read his mind that he was going to shoot it yeah and then it locked up everything in his p in his in his jet that's so wild isn't that wild you hear that a lot but it was so worth yeah like all the effort we got but people don't know the backstory like this that was just one out of many you know we ended up making a I know what I saw amazing about yeah

yeah you know for its time yeah yeah Spielberg L know compelling Spielberg who's by the way a total UFO nut is obsessed with he's obviously coming out with a new well he came out with his Netflix thing and then he's coming out with a new feature movie uh with Emily Blunt I think in the next year or two so he told me about Ru he told you about the aial about aerial School in the 90s that's wild so yeah he knows his stuff he's like he we have a mutual friend jenet Yang that worked with him and Janet I was of course just

young and naive enough to think that I could get a hey I'm doing a documentary on UFOs of course Spielberg is going to meet with me right and uh that didn't happen but he did actually say to Janet hey tell him you know he's doing a film on UFOs he should look into this Landing case that happened in Africa and of course I didn't uhhuh because I was like that didn't happen there's no way a UFO could landed at school with 100 Witnesses in broad daylight and the whole world not know about it I just not know you know yeah how wrong I was yeah well it seems like a recurring Trope in your life is you just believe things

when they're first told you so now I I I know I'm not going to believe it yeah but I suspend judgment I'm not going to not believe it good I will look into it I will review the evidence that's why yeah it's the best way to be I know I'm going to get a lot of push back criticism for including that encounter in Nellis test range in the desert 94 I know but people are going to say I'm already seeing the Steven green streets and the I know what they're going to you know

they're going to try to discredit the whole film based on that and I don't say with any definitive position that it happened but how is one supposed to determine or dig into or uncover more evidence about a specific case if you don't know about it yes so we got to start somewhere you have to start somewhere absolutely and as long as you're honest and not Shilling a thing that you actively disbelieve or whatever I'm yeah if I didn't believe it I wouldn't put it in there promise you I wouldn't do that no you don't guy that

would do that no I fortunately you know I've never done any of this for the money you know of course takes money to to to survive but yeah I just learned you were while making some of your early films you were working other job you were Bing cars it's amazing I worked at a hotel I I painted I used to paint houses thank God you persisted yeah I know awesome and I I I've got a photograph of me I'll share it with you not now but during the making of the phenomenon I mean I that was an

eight-year eight years I ran out of money had to find new investors you know disagreement with former partners as this one partner he was like we're going to create a hybrid it's going to be part sci-fi and part reality I was like no we're not yeah yeah yeah but anyway I I was doing random jobs just to you know keep the cash flowing in because I the the Investments dried up and even though I'd made some pretty good documentaries prior to that you think it would have been a little easier yeah having had you know what 20 years or 17 years under my

belt yeah you know I've made money every one of my films has made money I paid everybody back 100% of the time they were considered some of the better films out there on the topic but no it was not it was very hard you need a a medich it's getting easier now for friendly Patron yeah it's getting easier now provided I don't get ripped off on my distributor you won't don't even say that sorry don't even let it enter the you're gonna you're gonna be good I don't want to say that because I'm not going to have a distri no yeah exactly go go go I'm going independent I have to yeah it's exciting so the the

know the guy that found it and I'm I also know I do too I also know onar who is Edgar Mitchell's goddaughter M she was a model in the 9s and she was one in instrumental in helping me get to Edgar Mitchell for the first time sarus and a number of other efforts as well I think I wrote Edgar Mitchell it was in my 20s I wrote him probably this letters right I don't even didn't even read emails I wrote well emails probably two later but 20 and I had like 20 uh you

know you're persistent I did and that's awesome I'll get back to the relevance in a second but I was I was finally with him at his home we were walking in his he had a a Corral with horses and beautiful house in uh in Florida and I was walking with him and I said gosh you know Dr Mitchell like what finally you know allowed you or permitted you or made you approve to to meet with me and I was expected some sort of profound

answer and he go he goes I realized James you just wouldn't go away yeah that's awesome that simple that was it think I didn't woo him with any kind of no that was it you wouldn't go away there was no other way yes there have been ET visitation there have been crashed craft there have been uh material and bodies recovered there was no other way to get rid of me that's hilarious funny what any anything that I want to jump back to the Wilson

mem no so I'm G to get to that in a second so so inar uh met a girlfriend at the time that I was dating and they she's like oh my boyfriend's trying to get to Edgar Mitchell oh he's my go you know my god father whatever and let me help so she did and she got me the interview she ended up she's doing a biography on him now and we were talking and she's like yeah that interview that you got do you think you can make it available to me for my I said absolutely you kidding me yes you can have the whole thing and then we're talking and she goes you know uh Edgar michell died and ratry died

there was a FLIR of activity at his house and this Australian guy I caught leaving the house with like a big briefcase just like bloated with stuff and she was looking at him like what are you doing MH and he's like oh nothing to see here kind of thing and just kind of just goes around her and out the door and he was gone that's what anares told me she saw that she's like I don't know what he went into his files took stuff then later the document right and so that's I think the moment that that document walked way out of his house on

when that memo finally went public or was leaked officially in the sense that when did it actually become made public once it walked its way out of Edgar's house do you know I don't I maybe fairly recent what year would would that have been do you know because I'm only asking because I didn't put it in the phenomenon but I maybe I wasn't ready for it I don't know so you have this this document basically saying that uh Wilson is extremely frustrated

and he has to meet with Davis because he met with some Corporation the corporation has no oversight no government oversight and uh it's completely outside of his jurisdiction he finds a special Access program right he finds a special Access program they have 4 to 800 people working but they're then they're working on uh craft that is not of this world but progress is sort of slow and and it's cumbersome and it's this bombshell document and he's extremely frustrated and he's like what's going on like who's

who's in charge here um and he and he says to to Eric Davis if and he was saying I should have oversight he's saying I should have oversight they told him to kick rocks it's so wild they told him to kick rocks it's so wild so what do you you think that document's real I I I think that's real yeah I would never have spent 6 months on it because God there's so many complexities and so many different moving parts and meetings in DC and people at at that lab um there was a guy Shannon up in Shannon Oak Shannon yeah Oki Shannon at Los Alamos

at Los Alamos verifying you know who Eric Davis was and to meet with uh with with the former head of the DIA like there was just so many things and I was like okay I need to condense this down I remember my sister and I worked on this and I watched everything I could possibly watch I read it 50 times I I was like God this memo is just there's so much to include but but I I really need to kind of simplify it for the film right so I really just highlight I mean I worked very hard on that I was a very

good and the reason why I got the level of participation I would say even from Hal is like Hal was like I'll talk about this because it was mentioned in open Congressional hearings and it was actually uh made part of the record of the Congressional hearings and I think that made Hal feel a little more comfortable to even not to say that hey look I can affirm this or you know but he didn't say you know what that's outright that's just hogwash nothing happened it was like Hey if this individual is willing to admit that and then I talk to a bunch

of people behind the scenes a bunch of people and they all say it's real absolutely again I wouldn't have put it in the film if I didn't feel it was legit I think it's legit too do do you think the corporation talking to Wilson is throwing him off when they say the progress is slow and cumbersome do you think maybe it's actually they have reverse engineered UFOs I talked to some staff members of the Senate arms committee uhuh and they I was like well you guys could subpoena Admiral Wilson right mhm he like yeah we could I guess we could but we talked to him and uh and

he's like look you know I'm not I'm not saying anything at all on that they're like well we're going to bring you into a skiff he goes okay well you can bring me into Skip and I'm going to tell you the same thing I'm telling you right here so it's not going to make any difference so they kind of and I asked this particular staff member I said well could you subpoena him and I think they said that yeah that could be done and not to say that it wouldn't be done at some point but they that's that was Admiral M Wilson behind the scenes recently a couple of weird that's fascinating couple is that interesting it's very interesting couple of weird

things about that that meeting took place in the parking lot & which is where Bob Lazar I pretty sure worked really yeah I think bobazar I did not know I think they found him they found him in the records there so that's very strange there's some other weird connections around G&G like what what might be going on there a government contractor to sort of extremely secretive government cont techies and right I don't know exactly how they relate to this but they've come up enough where they clearly relate to it

phenomenon's real but there's no cover up I looked at him like really well it's it's one of the things where phenomenon is real but there's no you're in a room and you don't know who the py is you're the py if you're saying there's no cover up maybe you're part of the cover up or something so one fact about John Alexander that I find interesting is you covered renam so well and I know what I saw so this is this case of these guys work I Liv in renam for a long time for a long time so this is Royal Air Force Woodbridge right near suffle it's one of the best landing cases in all of England's history and you have and

certainly not you know the history of the that's pretty good case Jim penniston John Burrows I interviewed the only I'm the only person to have interviewed cabansag burough and penison all the three guys that went out that night to investigate that and cabansag got cold feet when I met with him and yeah and I hear burough has has sustained some weird possible injuries that cabansag got close to the craft and he was got really freaked out and he apparently stayed back but carry on let me interrupt you very good liing but but a very good case that's worth looking in

and and and col Charles halt looked into this stuff and came to the conclusion that you know there's something here and the crazy thing about the whole story that relates to Alexander is I think John Alexander gave the readout and knew about this before anybody in the US yeah yeah so there's some there's some how you how do you know that I heard about this from a friend who's incredibly well well connected somebody that you you hold up yeah very high esteem yeah and so interesting yeah yeah yeah H that's

funny because we were shooting in La MH and John and I have had great you know dinners together and I'll tell them exactly how I feel yeah you're wrong I'll say I and I think I could Prov in a court of law that you're wrong with overwhelming evidence yeah and he you know kind of but then he was on set in La when I was telling you I was filming stuff in La he was on set and again I I like John Alexander I really get along with him I mean in the sense that but I tell him to his face how I feel I I disagree with you strongly I don't think

you're correct on this one and and but then there were people on set they like who's this spook I'm serious they were like who's this spook this guy's spook he needs to leave are there are there any he's just poker around the are there any people you can definitively say are sort of Bad actors in modern ufology then I know maybe I I don't want to I try not to be negative or overly negative but just for the audience's sake around who should if you're new to this stuff who should curate information for you is there anybody to look out for as to you know maybe steer clear maybe avoid maybe look

at a little more skeptically well here's how I feel about it anybody making definitive statements as to exactly what's going on I'm highly du of oh it's for sure do you know what I mean I do you tell somebody that's like I know exactly what's going on I'm like really I don't know about that you know I'll be the first one to tell you I have no idea what's going on yeah yeah I have a little tiny idea yeah you know when people say this many six races yeah I'm like I don't look I'm starting to cover Close Encounters of the Third Kind only

recently in my in my long career yeah it's a slippery slope and those claims require evidence you know and even the people who've seen these things firsthand though don't know often what they are they go this is classifiable and there's nothing wrong with admitting just because we can't explain it doesn't mean it didn't happen right yeah or it doesn't mean it doesn't exist and I'm so I was telling you earlier I'm I've learned to be open and and to suspend judgment and listen to the testimony and dig a Little Deeper yeah

again that's why I'm including a controversial case it's going to be a case that people are going have trouble with yeah I know that but it's like hey you know these guys were on duty again we have a date we have a location and we have the names of the other Witnesses hopefully more will come out yeah you know yeah but anyway mean no terms of John Alexander yeah I and I don't know I don't want to accuse of any I don't know but but there's I think there may be an interesting threat always highly dubious of people that say they have all the answers there's this

many races this was happening does Alexander say that stuff no no no I don't think he'd go that far but there are people out there that you know make those assertions and stuff well it's like Dodie would say this guy you know Richard Dodie who was we now know was counter Intel for the Air Force like he admitted like he would throw people off the trail and he would speak insanely definitively about you know we have this many races and like you know these yeah John le would say [ __ ] like that which makes me you again John leer I don't know if he was like an agent or useful idiot but like he was a disinfo

arm or extension clearly to me like he was you know and he was Bill Cooper guys like that white let me tell you how the government works you had the aliens the come on like you know and there there there can be bits and kernels of Truth and a lot of this stuff but look I'll give you an example why I never believed Hollman and I didn't even look into it for a long time and that's because they were like oh yeah President Eisenhower had a meeting with an alien really you know yeah maybe that was deliberately put out

there to throw people off the trail that a landing did happen at Hollowman Air Force Base now I'm kind of convinced that it did yeah well the best often the best disinfo is slightly adjacent to the truth so you what you'll do is you'll say put out some wacky stuff in connection to something wacky actually happens then you'll put out a wacky thing that's like right next to it then you'll debunk that thing definitively and it's like that's over and then it takes the whole thing out and it takes the whole thing out because you can't speculate at all on left at Eastgate I think it was was was a book written

about that there was actual contact with aliens at bent wers in 1980 now all the key players that I've talked to and I've talked to all a lot of them Gordon General Gordon Williams Deputy base commander Charles halt um peniston Burrows bansag nobody and and other one other Witnesses are in um I know what I saw no one talks about aliens none of those guys okay no but then one book came out that there that there was alien contact yeah excuse me and that threw

everybody off it's like oh yeah they met with aliens that is a prime example in my opinion of disinformation to throw people off the trail absolutely and often these things are put out in the worst Outlet so it's like why is the Daily Mail getting like the first stories like they're like the cia's office of global access has a I also think they they systematically use marginal like weird fringy Outlets that aren't super believable when it comes to putting out actually very good credible information and that way you can retract

it if people don't you know most Source not the most credible source so so you have the daily reporting on something that really happens The Daily Mail reporting about you know an egg-shaped UFO from Area 51 a year ago you have uh them reporting on the cia's office of global access being the main you know part of the crash retrieval program all around the world wait wait wait what do they say the in the Daily Mail they say that the CIA has this office of global access C did yeah yeah and so so no it's

fascinating and so you know I think that is a strategy I I hate talking about Epstein I I won't after this but I do think this relates a little bit um so G gilain Maxwell yes she's in prison now she's she's in prison now yeah her father's Robert Maxwell you know this you know MI6 mad Affiliated you know kind of defin definitely that's a fact oh fact fact yeah yeah intelligence Associated guy yeah and he was kind of

always a rival of rert Murdoch like Murdoch and he would always kind of go at CU he owned a lot of um you know various he owned the pergamon Press bunch of textbooks actually in the US he's a big player oh big media mag for sure oh and he would have these lavish birthdays in the 80s and and you'd have like all sorts of you know really famous people show weird he owned the national Inquirer and so I always think it's like if you're trying to like marginalize a thing or actually condition people into

like believing it or put out the adjacent Theory and then like be able test the waters do whatever you buy a publication like that and you can you can do whatever you want you know and so I I think that stuff used strategically I you know uh why did in to relatively unknown filmmakers get this unprecedented level of access making of UFOs past present or future I mean anybody that looks at that film I

mean they've got I mean they've got full access in the military B active you're talking about um bober and alen Sandler but but wasn't Rod Serling uh yeah rodling yeah yeah narrated it but it's like that well they were approached by the dod they basically yeah but they basically admit in the film that it's real and they put forth some really [ __ ] crazy like accounts you know I mean like contact look they're saying contact yeah

with acted military at Hallman Air Force Base in 1972 or 74 Whatever It ultimately got released like who was behind that I'm a I'm a little skeptical of it and the reason skeptical of who's behind it or no well they were originally approached by Nellis Air Force Base and they were I think promised that they would be shown a UFO well yeah were given they were well they were given one bit of footage which he still has to this day and that is u a a

a a launch at vanderberg Air Force Base of an atlas rocket MH and there's uh two or I think it's two discs that are flying around the tip of this Atlas rocket watch doing thousands of miles across the sky how do we get the video Jame I know I'll play a recording from Allan about it yeah um but he's like if you get 25 Grand is like 20134 you get 25 Grand I will I'll you know I had to put the money into an escro account that I go to his house and

he's going to show me the footage and if it's not everything he said it was I'll get the money back you know and if it is and he gets the money you know and then La I got the money together at the last minute nope not going to do it ah and so uh he I I went coincidentally multiple times since then and I met with him at his house and he's got the footage and I was like so you just going to die with this footage you know and and um uh he's like yeah probably you know he said my Lord say I have nothing to gain I'm a wealthy man I'm retired like

I'm not going to risk stepping on I was like well you know then why don't you give it back to the government I know I know some people that could you know so that's I don't know so I I it's always but it's not the Hallen Landing case it's still it's a pretty good totally two different camera angles according I've talked to people that have seen it but some some inside me thinks that maybe the Air Force or the dod decided we were going to flip into being vaguely UFO uh at least in the ET extraterrestrial context in the early

from Alam mordo so he helped pick Los Alamos as the spot for the Manhattan Project for sure for sure fact he wrote the Los Alamos primer which every single employee of the Manhattan Project had to read upon arrival then weeks into the Manhattan Project he falls out with Leslie Groves over issues with like overco compartmentalization and secrecy which is feels like this weird thing it's like you know he's so close with he he wrote actually the first English language Tex textbook on quantum

mechanics he's just renowned physicist he's so close with Oppenheimer and it feels like this bizarre sort of story then he goes on to kind of to work on civilian Outreach when it comes to kind of nuclear initiative so obviously with nuclear you need Nuclear Physics as like an academic program but there's some Trade Secrets around building the bomb that you want to keep Secret in 46 he writes the McMahon secrecy act and this is at the time the most important sort of protocol when it comes to secrecy around nuclear trade secrets in 1954 the

atomic energy commission gets formed doe and the doe gets formed exactly and uh that's basically you know Oppenheimer sarbacher uh uh and they're creating they have you know special special definition of nuclear material is basically anything emitting any sort of radiological properties you know Alpha Beta whole different classification it's immed it's born secret do you actually read the atomic energy act if something is not a nuke but it has radiological

energy coming off it you know Alpha Beta Decay whatever same secrecy same secrecy and so it immediately falls into this sort of do doe classification system completely free from oversight isn't that right completely fre yeah completely as compartmentalized from like you know civilian government so you have you know keep super secret it's not TS TSS it's npq it's an entirely different classification system and you know it's all occurring in these incredibly sensitive areas as well because the crashes sort of mostly occur there that's little known secret and

stripped so you have a UFO knowledgeable FBI agent creating a dossier on the guy who wrote up UFO Secret so so can't make this stuff up can't make it up so cond cond then doesn't have his Q clearance for the longest time till the conon commission 66 he's out of the government and and this guy named Lou branscome comes to him Lou branscome is on the Jason advisory committee and he is uh uh studied under Don Menzel Don Menzel is the number one skeptic UFO debunker but he's also

rumored to be the deepest in the in the on the Majestic 12 or whatever equivalent committee or whatever Stanton Freedman was a real advocate for that he goes if it's not called Majestic 12 there's a group disliked it's a legitimate document it establishes one that a flying Sauer crashed two that the wreckage was recovered 1947 three that the government has successfully kept that secret since that time for that a very high level group including as it happens the first four directors of Central Intelligence first Secretary of Defense Etc was set up

established to deal with he wasc well those were all the guys who were like so so Menzel is this you know kind of incredibly smart astronomer he's at Harvard and um he works at the I think Bureau of public standards as well and you know like the the the time zones like that sort of thing you know so also like the kind of public astronomical data at the time so his understudy this guy Lou branscome who's on the Jason advisory committee so it's again deep as you get as it gets when it comes to larger you know American defense policy

the University of Colorado Boulder and he does an absolute hit job on UF inconsistent with the data within the body of the report it completely incon exactly absolutely it's like they just wrote a summary basically hoping that the media wasn't going to do their job and sipped through the actual cases that they because they they determined that UFOs are real it's not all UFOs are any UFOs real yeah you know it was a brilliant job and it really it killed that was it it all fell apart and it took so long but I want to get back to

you mentioned that guy hoddle's uh FBI memo another FBI memo that was extremely popular on the FBI's website I featured it in out of the blue and honestly I don't know if it's still floating around on the FBI site it probably is I would imagine but it's in is it Eisenhower's own handwriting no no no j gaho j gaho writes and you there's there's multiple interpretations of this cuz it looks like sa yeah or it could be like a w that wasn't written quite right they're

just not quite sure but it says a former director of the FBI J Edgar Hoover was also denied access as he stated in his own handwriting in July of 1947 we must insist upon full access to discs recovered Hoover continued the Army grabbed it and wouldn't let the bureau have it for cursory examination and it's in jover's own handwriting on this document it says as in take the SA or s W could be Southwest and don't know

mhm case the art it was a crash disc the Army grabbed it and wouldn't let us have it for cursory examination and it was written like 5 days or six days or a week after Roswell so that was did you ever see that it's in out of the blue and you could and I actually put at the time in out of the blue of course that's changed now because that was probably late 90s or early 2000s probably late ' 90s and um that was the document that was on the FBI's own website and I remember members of of Staff members of

Congress at the time cuz I it God it was it was right around 2000 I went around and I gave out copies of out of the blue to every single member of the House and Senate uhuh 535 and every letter was personally addressed to their Chief of Staff so there was like a lot of work right so I wrote like a kind of a template letter and then I had 535 and at the time it was VHS tapes that's what they used and I had 535 VHS

tapes that I gave out to every member of the House and Senate oh right God and one of the documents that they were most impressed I had a conversation with some of the staff members at the time but they're like that FBI memo yeah it's like oh my God it's right there in black and white you know if we could just figure out and apparently at the time and probably it's changed since then but it was one of the most popular memos or documents on the FBI's website that was downloaded all the time that's why when you said guy hoddle yeah remember that it's so f it is and it is interesting CU you mentioned maybe there is something

interviewer's face and L's like look I'm not telling you they're real yeah the government just admitted that they're real the government has already stated for the record that they're real I'm not telling you that the United States government is telling you that the phenomenon is real that's done we're moving beyond that you know and that happened that's why I said earlier on the show it's like you're not putting the genie back in the bottle like you can't make that statement the implications are so profound that if all that is true for all of humanity there's no way we're just going to sit on the sidelines and

just ignore you know what I mean like keep keep taking I remember I posted something on on X Twitter x uh I maybe it was like a year ago or something and people were really discouraged because you know David grush comes forward and says all the things he says and amazing gressional hearings and then it seemed like we almost kind of went backwards a little bit like they did a hit job on on Mr gush yeah there were some denials and you know and I said everybody calm down because people were really freaking out I said I've seen this pattern you know

increments nothing like what I've seen in 2017 now but hey I've seen efforts to get this stuff out and we are making progress there's no question about it I mean I remember in 20072 2008 there was a release of previously classified documents of the British government the French government they started releasing stuff there's stuff coming out there's press conferences there's things happening and now and that has escalated between 2017 and and today 2024 um exponentially in my opinion and I just tell everybody like you know

those are feeling discouraged don't worry we take one step back two steps forward um there's going to be there's going to be um pretty significant progress in my opinion in the next five years like I wouldn't be surprised if if it wasn't like at least a disclosure in the sense that and I've talked to government insiders about this a plan is for when I say full disclosure they say they're not going to give up the technology that's not going to happen they might be an admission of having some but that there is definitive proof

that we're not alone now that I'm told by 2030 am I going to sit there and make a prediction that's absolutely F fact no I'm not if I had to guess one way or the other did you I well I bet Mick West $10,000 oh you did okay which is such a stupid bet if you were to have like I should have 100,000 to one odd but I just bet one to one oh you did yeah because because I because I just I believe that I believe what you're say you guys put the money in a joint account so we we like wrote up something and I don't I don't remember it was

signed or gentleman's thing talk to the mick wests out there you know CU there's people I'm going to be under attack everybody's under attack fair enough I've seen this before you know this is nothing new i i in fact there's a lot less of you today than there was when I first started in the '90s I everybody attacking me I think it's good and it causes us to like raise our game or whatever fine hey look I don't blame them I get it you know it's like the issue I just debated Michael Shermer you know Michael sh I debated him on on Larry King l oh there you go if UFOs

were and I use the word if were buzzing around in our airspace who would be best equipped to know about it uh well our government perhaps military maybe so we've got the highest ranking military officials in the world telling us right now that these things are real we've got we've got generals we've got Admirals we've got Colonels we've got presidents Governors but it's always it's it's the same thing about it too you have I'd love to hear your experience cuz it's like always like you have this data set that they don't have yeah and you're like look into that like look at this but you can't right now because we're in a live debate setting and they always

say oh I'll look into that and then they have these like armchair smug like oh God doesn't it just oh irritates the heck out of meit I'll see this little smirk on their face and they're like it's all anecdote evidence I'm like radar photographs visual confirmation ground radar airto air radar like that's not anecdotal I'm sorry okay I might not have the disc in my possession maybe they do but you know that's really compelling evidence that's like all the sensory data that the military has yeah

well like in the case that's not anecdotal it's not anotal in the case of nits it's like multisensory at the very least it's Fleer which we have but it's multisensory you have 11 or 12 Witnesses you have three days you know four four people in Planes put their eyes on four people in the planes put their eyes on it then like dog fight there was like a dog fight with it or whatever and so to say that that's just your eyes Playing Tricks on you no you you either have to figure out that we have Next Level spoofing Tech like that's on you then

it's either that or the thing is is real and worthy of Investigation but look the history of it you know I did in the phenomenon one of the things I really wanted to do was settle that debate once and for all MH there is irrefutable in my opinion and the opinion of anyone that's looked into this refutable evidence irrefutable data that there's a technology that exhibits uh characteristics that are light years Advanced you know than things we had back in the 40s and even

today and what I did at the end of the film is I would put testimony from people that had sightings in the in the 50s 60s 7s all the way up to 2004 and all the pilots are describing pretty much the same damn thing had the ability to hover Accelerate from a stal sight in the blink van ey right angle turns at high speed without any Sonic Boom without any wake without any real visible yeah means of propulsion you know all these things yeah those are that's observed that's that's 75 years easily I could prove that in cor yeah

what exactly is it it doesn't appear to be us it's not the Russians not the Chinese guess what I went to Russia in the 90s I interviewed Generals in Russia I interviewed military personnel I interviewed civilians Witnesses in Russia i' done the same in China apparently in Russia they would use uh nuclear material to bait UFOs I got to Russia and I remember sitting down with this Admiral and he said to my interpreter he's like look if you're here to ask me whether or not the phenomenon is real the door is right over there I'm here to talk about the

implications and opening the doors to a possible uh uh communication um with International Communication like like an exchange of information in on International level is what they're interested in and and um and in China I mean I was Observe technology it's it's it's Global and the Americans are like oh well it could be Russians I was like hear that oh it could be the no it's not the Russians yeah how do I know I've been there right yeah they're shrugging their shoulders just like we are 100% you know and this stuff I mean you really have to go back to like 40s and

50s around our most precious nuclear assets there's no shot like now yeah we might have like you know I have to drones that are flying you know really fast and of course we've got things that are misidentified as youu yeah but but but at that time we just didn't have anything close you didn't have Dar DARPA was I think the early' 70s or like late 60s there's there's just no chance we we had like the xp80 like I'm just thinking about our most advanced you know uh uh flight tech at the time and it it just wasn't even close well okay this is

really kind of it was sort of a natural um say realization I you know I know I've heard about the connection with with nukes and UFOs uhhuh kind of a little bit you know brush the surface whatever when I met with Senator Reed um and it was funny because you know sat he sat down and I think they said he's got like 46 minutes you know and then he's out of here you know very you know so I got down to like having like three minutes left of his presence and um I said oh god I've

forgot to get a Walkin talk I need a b-roll shot and didn't have time for like oh and the security details looking at me and make it quick kind of thing like okay let's hit this let's hit this hallway you know we hit the hallway and I'm like well I'm walking with the former Senate majority leader who you know spearheaded this whole program I you should ask him a question so I said hey what was and the audio wasn't great because I didn't I don't think we were miked at that point I said hey what was one of the more I think I said astonishing aspects that you uncovered during ATP and during your efforts to you know investigate the stuff and like

munja was in the edit room with me and we're listening to all these different accounts of sightings in and around like New Mexico and other surrounding states and he goes James why don't you get a map out let's put the map on the wall we going to put a little pen where all these are happening so we did that and I was like thinking to myself the time like who do you want to get a map for you know but he was dead right so every time we get to an archive interview or a case in goes the pin the proximity to Trinity

site was unbelievable yeah yeah yeah like it was like here's Trinity site it was like dink dink dink dink dink d d the nuclear connection shows up if if absolutely I mean like it's like the Nimitz you know carrier strike group or whatever is that a nuclear well most most it's can't say for sure it's classified but it's most of these things have nuclear have tactical nukes on board so I don't know nukes on board oh yeah is it nuclear power too and it I

might be I don't know but I I'm pretty sure they yeah cuz they can stay out to sea forever so there so there's that there's there's a there's a town in Japan nuk on there's a town in Japan called Leno which is in Fukushima which is famous for its 2011 spill and for nuclear spill they have a civilian nuclear grid is that when that happened 2011 yeah and they have a town dedicated to UFOs where like you know a very high percentage of the residents believe in UFOs you have a museum around UF Vice

made a documentary on this in like is a nuclear energy grid um and uf's buzzing there Argentina 95 I believe there's a famous UFO case around there so it's one of these things where you know I always this is how I take

Skeptics down the rabbit Hol go you know Robert Hastings UFOs and nukes or the phenomena nuclear connection section you know one of those things because you it's this beautiful like it's like the most credible Witnesses super compelling it's super compelling they're taking out the NSA uses the top cryptography for all of the you know uh nuclear Armament and disarmament and the idea that they're just like taking down silos is absolutely insane in fact in 2010 wired wrote an article about Fe Warren where there was an outage in Fe Warren

it was this big story just because you know one of our nuclear sites went down the power went out for an hour and Hastings after he had retired and written UFOs and nukes back channeled to the missileers there and they were like yeah there was a Tic Tac flying around that's what caused the outage so well I got I got a story from my not well I won't go into too much detail uh but my not Air Force Base some wherever they come from somebody is in minet shutting off the

the report made it to the desk of Chief of Staff General hoit Vandenberg though he rejected it and ordered all copies burned this rejection from the top was in the view of many the death nail for objective study of UFOs and he went around in the 80s I don't know if it was early as the 70s but definitely the 80s and 90s and he interviewed all these critical Witnesses from like the 50s and 60s that were in their Twilight years and thank God cuz he got interviews that quite frankly nobody

even knew existed that's why when you get like an historian like Richard Dolan who watched the phenomenon and he goes God I never knew that archive footage existed or there was an interview with so and so or this person you know and I got in touch with this guy and he's to this day is sitting on interviews from well the interviews were in the ' 80s but the the incidents occurred Min not Air Force space and I want to say in ' 66 or it could have been' 68 they were separated by Miles right and and at

night they had to when they were working on these things they would have one guy down in the hole and then another guy armed guard standing there armed guard protecting while the guy's down there with the silo open working on it and it was like 2:00 in the morning or 3:00 in the morning and a UFO came over the base and apparently was like hovering and the guy was screaming like it's it's Landing it's a you it's like a orange you know orb coming down landing and the guy in the airplane I said was a guy in

airplane flying over the base and he could see the UFO landing he interviewed that guy the pilot he interviewed the guy that was you know the armed guard that was watching it all land parting one of the most spectacular incidences and unprecedented interviews and you reminded me when you started talking about that stuff I need to I need to go back and revisit and and and and do a piece on that because that is test testimony that the world hasn't seen and I know that's amazing the individual has you he yeah I'm going to do some pl we got some plans with it but I I managed to get some footage of it and I credited

the guy in in the phenomenon and I'm sorry I can't remember more details on that but apparently it's the most dramatic case and testimony ever heard ever given about a UFO in the nukes W what's his name Mario is it Mario it'll come to me it's in the credits of of of the phenomenon his name will come to me and when it does I'll I'll let you know we could you could put it over the screen here because I'm I'm struggling to remember the guy but it's so you know another interesting aspect of the UFOs nukes thing that I almost hesitate to

sometime in the next week or so I said Dave please do something for me tell Dr kpatrick that Dr Jacob says [ __ ] you that's that's unbelievable he was so upset because apparently he went he went and met with him he gave him all the the documents and the case it happened and told him where the footage was or where it should have been and it was taken and I guess katrick just completely dismissed all of that he's been traumatized because he or Dr Jacobs was I've never seen he's so articulate he's so funny and he's so I just love that

guy well they they they uh took him out as a photo instrumentation specialist and then they said that he never worked at the Air Force which is ridic all the documentation I covered it out of the blue exactly and then his former his former boss came out later and was like no this guy worked for me like what are you talking but they tried to erase him oh my God it's really it's really messed up and this is time and time again uh Bob Hastings the Fe Warren guys that I mentioned the missileers they they their careers were really hit after this you you and I know what I saw you talk about

it is and it's it's tough I think for people to realize that I mean that guy's so detail oriented he emailed me I never met him he emailed me after I did my piece with grush and he was like actually it was like a lower percent of missileers that I interviewed it was like 12 out of the 167 no way but I loved it I mean he wrote me this long thing wow super detailed yeah and I was like thank you for that I was like I should make a correction you know but it was like extremely semantic thing but I was like oh this guy's legit yeah and we

talked and I could tell he was extremely detail detail oriented and then there's this bizarre kind of follow-up angle of like but you know I've also had these experiences myself which by the way in the worldview where there showing up in on these you know nuclear bases which are incredibly protected for everything else of course they can show up in your bedroom too you know and they can they can track the people themselves and that's a weird thing to admit I've never had those experiences but I've met very credible people that I have tremendous respect for that with nothing to gain

and everything to lose that I have to say I was like I believe them I've never covered that aspect of the phenomenon and any of my films yes and I've had people criticize me for that yes but it's like I feel like baby steps I feel like you can't go too far because I know my own progression has taken decades like you know I can like I said I'm a nuts and bolts kind of guy I need that's entering into a realm that there's even less evidence for right sure than some of these other cases

dying like Hopkin Bud Hopkins he ended up dying like a year or two later of cancer and he was all excited I was I was in New York City to see Leslie we were putting on this event together and he's like oh I want to have coffee with you I want to show you something and he was all excited I'm not really that into the whole I'm not not into it I just haven't really looked in you know professionally for any of my films because I feel like it's a slippery slope in any case he had a number of so-called experiencers from all around

world and he said I want you to draw what you see on the inside of the ship on the the table and they all drew the same symbol on the wall what was the symbol I can't remember but it was like you can't do that I'm sorry I it's like almost 20 years ago but I remember looking at the different variations of this clearly looking at the same damn thing do you know how the hell no I had no idea what it got take it to a symbolic he was look we had a 15minute thing and he was super excited about it and he had drawings from all these different people we have to figure out none of them knew each other well I

don't know yeah again this is not my area of expertise and I don't really look I don't not look into them I'll listen and again I suspend but that was the most compelling evidence for alleged abduction cases because they were all drawing a slightly different variation of that yes no question he was like what do you see and they were drawing it yeah and it was like oh my God this is impossible how how's this even possible and he was all excited about it yeah so anyway that's that's my two cents on the

alien abduction aspect well you have Gary noan who's a Stanford Professor he's you know claimed not an abduction but you know aliens at the foot of his bed I would have been probably six or seven cuz it was in our first house uh that we my parents had bought in Windsor uh of little men in the bedroom you know I mean uh I was awake I knew they were there I could see them room and stuff and so you you have you know some extremely credible people who've done

very real things outside of UFOs and aliens or whatever like he's a Nobel nominee every year and he said that what a risky thing to to report on why would any why would anybody do that to themselves knowing it's like you know well that's what I think I think the dirty secret is that everybody has something autobiographical and that that causes them to look into this or or you know and I think that that's should be owned and it shouldn't be a source of Shame

yeah you know I talked last night cuz I've had my own experiences you know and I just said you know I'd rather just not and the reason my reason going to bring that my reasoning behind it is it really has nothing to do with where my position stands today with the phenomenon and I think that people might interpret that as like oh well he's clearly jaded because he saw something or he thinks he saw something I have no interest in proving well it also would be weird if you hadn't it'd be I think it'd be weirder if you hadn't seen anything so it's like

you're kind of damned if you do damned if you don't but if you do if you do it's like I Bas I base I base my beliefs my research you know I mean I remember going to the National Archives and and that's a whole story but coming up with all those original documents from Project Blue Book files that were so amazing because it was right there in black and white some color of of the documents mentation of one of my favorite Landing cases it

know I thought James was a freak now I know he is no no I I I think I think quite the contrary but you uh I think sold some UFO footage to Logan Paul is that no I didn't sell it to him no here's what happened yeah so this is so funny yeah he went on his podcast yeah well in the 90s on my first documentary I was working with this guy

Chuck Clark Chuck Clark a self-described military Watchdog says FBI agents and other lawmen used a sealed search warrant to seize his property including computers and personal files Bob Lazar was just exploding in the headlines it was all over the place it was in the 90s I think he came met public in ' 89 but in any case it was in the early mid 90s whatever and everyone's talking about bobazar and his tape it was exploding I mean it was all over the news everybody's you know cuz wow if it's true you know really and uh Chuck Clark who had

written a handbook on Area 51 S4 guide and he was an amateur astronomer and he was out under the night sky quite often in and around the base or not in the last fight areas he had he had figured out a way that there were a handful of Vantage points on these specific mountain ranges where he could he could spy on the base and he would take people out there and stuff and so and he had a sighting of something that exhibited technology that was just you know light years like ding ding ding so

I was interviewing from that and and I was going back and forth during that period of production and became friends and hung out with him on a numerous occasions and and one day he called me up and he said I'll give you the trunked version but he said James I got something you need to see and I was like oh okay well I'm like 12 hours away way at least he I said well you know can you tell me anything more he goes well I can tell you that when you see it your jaw's going to hit the floor I said that good he goes that good cancel my plans jump

in my car boo went straight out to to uh Al the alien or little Rachel Nevada going to it he had a he had a trailer and and uh he popped in this VHS tape and there were two guys on a on a typical road trip I know the type I've done it myself you know they videotaping each other goofing off they're listening to music they're driving down the long you know Road super remote desert highway they're goofing off and the little alien and then all of a sudden they're super serious they're inside a parked car it's

Dusk and you know uh they're arguing in the car like one of them's like the object is either over them or coming towards them and almost over them and they're yelling back and forth the car and it sounds to me like they're trying to crawl under the seat that's what it sounded like at the time then the dashboard lights up and I can see all these Shadows eerily moving around so the source of light is moving because it's causing the Shadows on the inside of the car to move weird and uh and then one of the kids

says I'm getting out and the guy's telling him not to get out and he's like I'm getting out anyway and he gets out and then the next thing you see is a orange disc shaped thing just wobbling in like like it looks like magic of the way it just kind of just hovers there like this and I tell you man I was like holy [ __ ] where did you get this so I was telling the story to Logan Paul he's like yeah yeah the footage the disappears I said well you know this guy Chuck Clark apparently still has it but

it had been 26 years of a VHS tape playing over and over and over and over and over yeah it's going to be seriously degraded anybody knows half inch VHS playing over those heads for 25 years it's not going to look great it's going to have Dropout Galore I mean you so so I guess I at the time at that time and this guy's so pissed off with me now he won't even talk to me but whatever sorry you know I feel like the one that he should be pissed off with is Chuck Clark for not sharing that footage when

he could have right yeah wait who's pissed off of you oh the this he's a private investigator I can't remember his name up top but any case I wouldn't say it anyway he's up said but he had found Chuck Clark and he was in touch with Chuck Clark I said do not mention my name because if you do Chuck Clark's not going to meet with you cuz Chuck Clark is pissed off at me because I asked him every two years for 15 years to get that tape he said you ask me again I'm never speaking to you and I asked him again because I had somebody come along that was willing to give 30 grand for it so I said I'll ask can I

asked and that was it he cut me loose never going to talk to me again and he's he's a man of his word so so I told I said keep my name out of it and and so this guy's going to go out and Chuck says yeah I still have the VHS tape I'll show it to you and this is a couple years ago so yeah about a couple years ago so I'm I'm telling like after the Logan B interview you know they shut the cameras off and we're talking and Logan I said well you know the guy's GNA go I got this guy he just contact me I never met him but he's going to go meet with Chuck Clark and Logan's like well where is he

I like he's in Arizona somewhere in remote Arizona so Logan's like I'm going to meet I'm going to meet with him I said do whatever you got to do to get that footage you know like that's been sitting way too long so I guess he brought like a I want to say about 100 grand in cash I think I think it was 100 Grand was at least 50 might have been 100 and I can ask him and he gets out there and he's got a couple of button cams on his thing and you know the tape was pretty pretty degraded you know and

uh but he filmed could I see it again you know and played a bunch of times and uh I guess he offered him 100 Grand but he wouldn't take it and um anyway that whole story broke and guy wouldn't take 100 grand for evidently he's not going to sell it it's not going to happen and so here's the real kicker what really gets me uh so I don't know what Logan's going to do with the footage but Logan said it's pretty he's like you could see it wobbling but it's really degraded I mean

again VHS tapes don't last you know should have been digitizer put on the footage is compelling not 1995 the tape had been worn down it's been played probably over a hundred times and so the quality is not great and everything about it screams [ __ ] which is the true reason I haven't released it but before that happened and right around that time this really

frustrates me I contacted George knp and I said George this as I was wrapping up the phenomenon I said George you have got to go and get this tape from Chuck Clark or at least see it George is like oh yeah I know Chuck Clark I did a whole story on him for the news local news station his place was was ransacked by the by the feds you know they came in and I don't know what he had maybe had photographs of planes and Hangers I don't know but he had that or maybe it was that footage don't know I said you got to go you got to go

and I kept telling him like I can't do it but I'm telling you I've seen this tape and it's amazing and like you got to go find he's like I'll get on it and I kept pushing George and I like George NAB a lot and I have tremendous respect for him and I kept pushing him and one day he goes listen man you're not my damn wife or you know my girl stop needling me just stop I said he goes I'm really big I said okay sorry I'm just trying to hand you what I feel is the best you've done all this reporting for all these years on Area 51 and bobar and UFOs at Area 51 and I saw the best

footage I've ever seen in my life out so George knap doesn't event doesn't go out there the guy that gave it to Chuck Clark was a TV producer in Los Angeles and he had it on like a beta SP tape and a master I'm told and he from that Master he gave a copy to Chuck Clark right so as soon as the the the private eye and my got the name of that

individual we went after him and he had just died so if we would have gotten there just if if George would have gotten there just a month or two earlier we probably would have had the master on beta SP so we contacted the the the guy's Network where he worked then we contacted his son got in touch with his son and his son couldn't be bothered he's like my dad just died you're talking to me about a UFO tape like you know what I mean and so it might be ripe I can't really do it because Chuck doesn't like me and now this new private eye because of Logan Paul going out with

cameras he found out and now he's pissed at me you know and I'm like you know what all's Fair like as far as I'm concerned Chuck Clark's the one that kept this really compelling data hidden for 20 I even said to Chuck just put me in touch with the guy that gave it to you and let me talk to them yeah and he wouldn't do it so Chuck was kind of in on it so anyway I went to Area 51 just like last year and I went to the little alien and I talked to some people there that there that have known me since I was in my 20s and she was like you think we're that stupid you don't think we

would have made a digital copy uh and looked at me oh wow give me your number let me talk you know and she's like there's reasons why that tape hasn't been leaked like that I was said well can you tell me uh she's like no but you think we're stupid you don't think we made a digital copy and looked at me like that well there you go and then she just walked away I was like so wow so you know Logan Paul's like you know this is seriously eroded and chewed up and but yes he's it's why so why won't he

put the video If like well it's risky for him cuz Chuck said I'll sue you oh he did for one and two he can handle it's not you know it's not Crystal Clear it's I saw it when it was a week old yeah yeah yeah you know I saw it it was pretty damn impressive yeah and this is a button cam version cam of a screen that double corrupted yeah he tried to buy it he tried to get he said he had a stack and nope wasn't having it so the unfortunate thing is the guy that gave him that I'm sure there was a master tape hopefully they when they cleared

out his cubby holes at this at this news organization they didn't throw everything away hopefully maybe his son got it but man I've been chasing it since I was your age you know I mean younger than you like I've done everything I can it's not like I'm giving up or anything but I'm busy making the program I got to go back to Brazil it'll come back around if I got to go back to Brazil I got to update that film I got an event the next Press Club I want to do yeah I want to film that it's going to be a modern day version of I know what I saw like I wish I could clone myself there's only so much I can do and I'm raising a

10-year-old you know it's like yeah yeah yeah it's the most important thing yeah most important thing and I you know and I'm dealing with like nightmares scenarios with all these different distributors yeah yeah yeah Jesus not making it easy on here you know no no no well hey you're doing a hard a hard thing you're getting a very important core truth out and it would make S you signed up for a hard you know it's a hard long road so at least I'm getting laughed at a little less lately oh yeah I've been getting laughed at I've got

laughed at my whole hey you should feel very my whole adult life that's amazing I mean I mean that that's a lot of laugh that's a lot of laughter but you you should be laughing now because you you really I think have been Vindicated and proven right on a lot of a lot of stuff and you were there before it was popular so I think well we have we have you and I are indebted like you know we've got people like Stanton man and Dr heinik yeah and um uh kho and you know all these people that came before us that were Advocates and pushing and they

really had it tough like my God yeah right I mean they never got to see what we're seeing right now yeah I'm so fortunate as someone who's been doing this as long as I have to see what's happening today it's fast I was when I watch those congratul I'm not kidding man I had tears just flowing down my face for an hour and a half straight yeah I was it's coming out look yeah we're not having the you know the progress that we'd like to see is happening as quickly I say be patient you guys like I was in that room you you should have been in that room for me I I had a conflicting I had a conflicting

thing and I just simply couldn't be there something going on for a filming I was delivering something I can't remember I was like if I killed myself I could have made it but it was like that kind of situation right yeah but I just say you know be patient there's we're going to see significant push back L is On's book there's other documentaries there's the program coming out I don't see quite honestly how the program is not going to make waves yeah I think we put together a pretty compelling case oh it's incredible it's awesome like I think it will make waves and and and I

pushed it I wanted a good strong base hit because I knew that I couldn't take the time that it took to produce the phenomenon I mean the phenomenon in my opinion I hate to toot my own horn it was a group effort but it's kind of a masterpiece in terms of like the production qualities and the b-roll and the archive footage that we got and stitching the the whole story together I worked with this guy Mark barish he's really brilliant writer he was really instrumental in helping like Stitch it all together in a in a very comprehensive way and I'm very proud of that film and I'll always be proud of that film but this is timely things are

moving quickly right now and I wanted to get the program out as quickly as I could because it's relevant now yes and a lot of the people that are risking themselves coming forward and meeting with me they want it out now because they want to keep that momentum and so um but I'm still very proud of it I think it's a very good you know what I mean by the assertion that the US government has spaceships of non-human intelligence in their possession that kind of Revelation unearths people's beliefs I would go to jail to say things that I've been exposed

to in the I've known about for a while he's you know a story that's out there this this hacker from the UK yes who is hacking into like American Military databas biggest hack in US history he's getting into NSA archives NSA Dia CIA NASA you name it and a page comes up and

it's this list of 11 or 12 off Planet officers after a year he got paid to it and I found the next s spread sheet that was actually called or at least in the heading of the column it said non-terrestrial officers that's like my God that's just non terrestrial offic non terrestrial officers with um ranks and names mhm and uh then a separate sheet uh with tabs for material transfer between ships and these were I mean I don't remember the names now that's a

long time ago a lot of people give me a hard time for not remembering the names and stuff but it was a long time ago that's crazy yeah so I've always that's always stuck in my head cuz in my mind in the UFO world you have people like you doing very hard-headed and bullets investigations and then you have the kooky like secret space program like really weird stuff like they operation solar Warden and you know 20 in back you get your you know you go to somewhere and like I I've always been super skeptical of that but when I hear that

this guy Gary McKinnon who's in the program you interview who just seems so normal incredible right yeah just like a actually like a cool guy you know he clearly made a big mistake but but but but outside of you know some some big issues oh God that talking head song what have I done remember one of my favorite LS in the movie oh that's what that talking head song Oh God what done yeah that's right he says that yeah he got caught that's what he said that's funny and he has a guitar in the back he's like a funny guy so you know he

just doesn't see he seemed like in over his head but not a liar at all no so God no and so and so what what is how do you interpret that you see a page of off Planet EXT terrestrial officer EXT is it extraterrestrial or off Planet extraterrestrial I'm pretty sure okay either but you could Google that but I'm pretty sure it's extraterrestrial yeah cuz I remember going crazy well extraterrestrial could that be cuz you're off Planet would that be right astronauts that be extral offic but officer no an astronauts not an

officer a list of extraterrestrial officers you just astronaut you wouldn't say officer right right yeah so yeah that's really weird I mean gosh and that was like how do we get that list I know God can you imagine what like what is that and then the craft the craft is very similar to what crashed in in um God and that was 96 MH that's when the UFO crashed in Brazil but it was a cylindrical shape um uhuh metallic object that no rivets no yeah all that

and and and quite similar to what he described except his had like a little like little B well he draws it it's basically a cigar with a thing here and a thing there on either end but but but what like unless they were messing with him like you know which they didn't I mean he's still a criminal according to the US he can't leave leave England and what England and Wales Wales yeah yeah that's right he's restricted there for the rest of his life so yeah that's just what's going on with that that I mean

that's it's it's I find that interesting because at least to me they wanted to lock him up for like 60 years yeah yeah I mean it's that's a but it's also it's like that's real jail time that's real jail time but when you look at these crashes that occur near nuclear sites I don't want to say but still it should be mind-blowing for the average person right I think for me or you it's a little like okay yeah it's expected that's not quite as mind-blowing when you see this new fact this you know this guy hacking into you know these super Mak Wonder makes you wonder it makes you

wonder and you know it's funny because I'd forgotten about that aspect of what he'd seen I forgot about that I remembers that he saw photographic evidence and then he brought it up again and while that while I was thinking about that it was just like officers what and then I interview the individual uh US Air Force X in the film and he talks about this alleged encounter at Nellis in '94 with a guy dressed in you know military

outfit that clearly according to him did not appear to be human M um um I started thinking about the exential officers I was like God is that what they were talking about like we're in touch and there other like you had mentioned earlier about books that have been written from military people about encounters with these alleged encounters with these uh the Ling at hman like I don't know man there's no smoke without fire right well you have you have to Discount everything not to believe any of it

absolutely well you have well you have I think you have to need gradations of probability and and that's okay you can say I think this is 20% probable but worth cataloging in my mind and not forgetting about and then looking for more corroboration but admitting that it's low probability and I think most people they think in this sort of 2D like yes or no binary but you can but you know High mesed you know who's head of the Israeli space force who oh I remember that yeah right like two years ago right two years ago he writes his biography and he it was like yeah he my

God are you kidding me there's a Galactic Federation he says that they're on Mars and you know people know how to that like the just right over the head of almost everybody when you make those kind of statements because not to say they're not true or maybe they are true I don't know but it's like a give you an example of how it's almost too much to process because when I did moment of contact I just got back from Brazil and I had this like news organization at my house with Leslie Kane interviewing me and oh we're so excited let's talk about Brazil I was like yeah now I'm not going

to talk about that case cuz I they weren't ready for it it right live aliens all the rest of it well um what was the example I was going to use uh I just lost my train of with um yeah with with okay I interviewed some hospice workers in the 90s that had that huge uh Boomerang shaped craft that we talked about earlier in March 13th 1997 including the governor of Arizona 5 Simon all saw this massive and there

went right back to their conversation and I'm like you didn't get up and call 911 get a camera like Chase it with your car like nothing they said no I said so you hang on so all five of you stood here you know sat here looking up at this thing as it passed overhead and you say it took like five minutes that's how big it was and and then you did nothing and they said yep I don't know why we just didn't do anything we didn't call we didn't yell for my husband we didn't get in our car and cuz

I was like get in the car chase it you get camera didn't do any of that and I thought maybe it's just too much for people to process like when they hear like sometimes the mainstream media that's not educated on this topic and even it's hard for me to process things sometimes like the crash retrieval stuff and people testifying like I never saw thought I'd see that that day in my career and so with this statements you're saying from this israelian military official was he intelligence or something I know I read about it he was head of the so space force I believe uh

you have the nro which is like Optical observation in Recon and then in National reconnaissance office and then you have space force which supports other you know Navy military but with comms and so he's head of the Israel equivalent of space force okay which is an extremely important position they're doing all their you wouldn't put a wacko ahead of that no but but my point is is like that you know you got someone of that level of credibility of that level of of of government Insider military Insider coming forward and making those

statements it's almost like the media doesn't know how to process it I with 30-year background of looking into these cases all around the world I have a hard time processing right so it's like I'm only going to imagine what the media it's like if you make those statements and they're that significant why wouldn't you put some of the resources that we put in for president sexual picadillos like if you put on Tenth the resources into investigating some of these claims let's get to the bottom of it or David Rush yeah super what David David came forward like he put in his credibility he lost his position like he

at Great sa at Great personal sacrifice he came forward the implications of what he's saying are so profound yeah Beyond how could you possibly not put some resources and follow up I mean news nation's really the only outfit out there really sticking their teeth into this talk right with well I I did a piece with them too but but I I kept thinking the whole time why why why am I in this POS I mean I've become close with him but I'm like you know it you did a great piece and it was but my point is why isn't Fox News CNN to

totally I kept thinking the whole time all be doing about resources and contact well the the the backstory is they they had an opportunity the New York I mean Leslie Kane published the initial article that prompted the whole thing but she had to do it in the debrief because Julian Barnes who I know I was right there when it was all going down he has a bias against the whole I spoke to her at the um Barnes has a bias he hates the UFOs and it was her biggest story in 2017 right wasn't the most popular stories they've ever published when I was I sat next to her at the at the Congressional hearing and I was like

want to continue a nice relationship of course yeah yeah there's nothing to the story no that's exactly what happen it that's exactly what happened don't you think I I know that and I've also I've helped since then with trying to get uh gush's oped out or whatever a little bit and like I I I see the the pain he's going through I worked so hard to portray him in the light that he deserves in the program I he did you know what I mean yeah yeah like I hope I hope he sees that sure he will I told him that yeah and he was like awesome oh

I'm really glad yeah because you know I don't blame him and he was a bit skittish and he was very selective with a handful of interviews that he gave you being one of them and and uh and I talked to somebody there and even Leslie tried to get him for an upcoming production he's like you know I'm just not not really doing it anymore yeah yeah yeah I don't blame him you know I don't blame him I don't either I don't yeah but I really tried to do his story Justice and not for any other reason that I believe him I believe him and I think he merits that that level of of of

coverage I fully agree you know yeah James this has been an honor man this is this is awesome I really appreciate it's been a long time coming yeah thank you for coming cool yeah cool