Life on Mars Destroyed by Nuclear War! (Ft. Dr. John Brandenburg)

have you, and I I appreciate you taking the time. Well, Jesse, it's a pleasure and honor to be on your show. You have had many awesome guests, and uh I've you know, I've followed your followed your work. It's very good. Well, you're among the most awesome, and um why don't we start with just because we're going to be getting into pretty interesting territory that for the average, you know, person who believes in kind of consensus or mainstream science might feel beyond the pale. So, uh uh I think what's possibly most remarkable about you is you have

very traditionally impressive bonafides and credentials. So, what's your background? Uh well, I I went to uh I grew up in Oregon, and I went to school uh for undergraduate at uh Southern Oregon University, majoring in physics and uh math. And inspired by my uncle, who worked on the Manhattan Project during World War I wanted to uh go on for my PhD, and they encouraged that. Uh and um so, I ended up

things, the nuclear winter came out, and then the um there was a Able Archer crisis of 1983, which was classified. We were as close to a nuclear war as we were during the Cuban Missile Crisis, but it was secret. Only people on the lab premises inside the fence knew how bad things were. And um was felt in despair like a lot of other people at the lab, and that we were going to have a nuclear war by accident. And um

uh then I went from there to uh Washington, D.C., and worked uh as a uh defense contractor, uh as a consulting physicist to the Pentagon and the intel agencies. And um at the time I didn't believe in UFOs, but by after working there for about a year, suddenly it was absolutely clear there was a UFO cover-up. And at what point did that become clear? Uh well, I talked to um a friend of a

friend who worked for the Joint Chiefs of Staff on at their, you know, at their staff level. He was a colonel. I've been hearing all of those rumors. The rumors just very thick in the air during the Reagan administration. He was warning about invasions of outer space and and that we ought to end the Cold War because of that. And and I asked this fellow, I said, "Is there really a UFO cover-up?" And he said,

"Yes." He said, "That's all I can tell you." He says, "The rest you can figure out for yourself." He says. This guy was on the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs or He he worked for the the Joint Chiefs as a staff uh So, you spoke It was a friend of a friend, but you spoke directly to the person. Yes, I did. The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. And he he basically He was not a chairman. He was not one of the Joint Chiefs, but he was part of their staff or something. Yeah, supporter. And he and he was like, "There is definitely a there there." Absolutely. And then I confirmed that through a second uh

um source. Through the second source. Uh he was a some hapless character I called at Space Command. And I said, uh "I've heard there is an extraterrestrial threat whose existence is classified. I'd like to help with that program." And he said, "Oh, okay. Here, let me see if I can connect you with somebody." And then he says, uh he says, "We'll have to call you back on that." What was uh Edward Teller like? You know, obviously famous for inventing the hydrogen very uh very animated very animated.

Uh he had uh big eyebrows. Uh you know, he's Hungarian and uh Jewish. And uh he uh being Hungarian, he had a congenital fear of the Russians. And um he was just a very I considered him a very creative, enlightened person. Really? Yes. And um Because he sort of it's funny post the movie Oppenheimer I feel like he's painted as this sort of villain who wants to Yes. build a bigger and bigger bomb. And

if you if you do read his letters around the creation of the H bomb it it it it does belie somebody who has a conscience who's saying, you know, I think we need to do this for the Western world because if we don't do this the other side is going to do it and it's it's it's actually really important that that we we figure this out. Um so yeah, what what what what's your take on him? I mean I don't Oh I Oh I I believe he he was acting on instinct and he was from Hungary which has a bad history with Russia

and um uh he just intuitively felt that the Russians were working on the hydrogen and now that they had the atomic bomb they'd gotten the atomic bomb secret and that was what you needed to set off the hydrogen bomb. It was basically the detonator cap. And um he says we can't stop working on the hydrogen bomb because if we do Joseph Stalin will get the hydrogen bomb and we won't have it. And Oppenheimer was suffering from a great deal of angst

the bomb being used in World War II and uh he resisted this. He says, "No, we don't need the atomic We don't need the hydrogen bomb. We have the atomic bomb and the Russians will never figure out how to build a hydrogen bomb." And later Teller and Sakharov actually got to meet. And Sakharov, the father of the Russian hydrogen bomb, looked at all of Teller's communications back and forth and said, "Oh, Teller was right. We would have never stopped working on the hydrogen bomb. As Joe Stalin wanted

the hydrogen bomb." Did he So you said you were working down the hall from him and he was working on hydrogen bombs. Uh just for the audience's perspective uh so uh hydrogen bomb is basically uncontrolled fusion Uncontrolled fusion. And the, uh, kind of holy grail and energy would be controlled fusion. Controlled fusion, that's what I've worked, uh, most of my career on. Did Teller believe in the ideal of cold fusion or or not necessarily cold fusion, but controlled Oh, yes, he did. He did he did and, uh,

as curiously enough, Andrei Sakharov is the designer of the tokamak, which is the leading contender to be a a control fusion of the And is there a Is there a relationship between Sakharov and, uh, and Teller? Well, they were both brilliant people and they both kind of, uh, they they thought down the same passages. Uh, they they looked at the data and came to the same conclusions, even though they were completely isolated from each other. Are all the conspiracies about controlled

long time? Like, basically, yeah, I do. Do we Do I believe that they would commit sort of violence to maintain their oligopoly and and and ensure scarcity? Yes. Do I also simultaneously think that we have some zero-point energy machine or or controlled fusion reactor hiding in a in a closet at Lockheed or something? I I I'm I'm not so sure. So, yeah, what what what do you think? Are you still lugging around one of those bulky, worn-out wallets? You I am. And your posture's not great due to that wallet. Yeah.

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Just head to ridge.com/cosmic to see their biggest sale of the year. After you purchase, they will ask about where you heard about them. Where did they hear about Ridge Wallet, Chris? Um they heard it here first on American Alchemy. Yeah. Please support our show and tell them our show sent you. Upgrade your wallet. Thank me later. Uh I think that um controlled fusion would be the ultimate

fusion device. I mean, the ultimate energy source. Uh zero-point energy is very important to understand a theory of unifying gravity and electromagnetism cuz it's it's in quantum mechanics. Uh however, um according to Andrei Sakharov, Mhm. the way to tap zero-point energy is have a black hole in your basement and feed it uh stray stray animals and uh things you don't want and get the energy some of the energy goes into the black hole and some of it bursts out at

at at and you don't want to have a black hole in your basement. No, it doesn't sound so great. But but but I guess the the question is it do you think there's been a line of suppressed science that has been hidden in the black but could amount to real civil side updates in the way we live our lives, the way our cities are built? I'm not known for being a skeptic about things, but I'm a skeptic about that. I do not think short of making your own black hole and trying to keep it in your

basement, you can harness free energy. Now, I could be wrong. The times I've been wrong in my career have been mostly when I said, "This can't be done." And uh so I uh but I don't subscribe to Jim Greer's idea that the government is keeping free energy from us. I think um I I do know that the fossil fuel industry is probably the most well-monied, most powerful Yep.

lobbying group uh on Earth. There are countries where it is their entire lifeblood is fossil fuel. If you endanger that, um you will uh take away they'll you'll be viewed as taking away their entire way of life. So, do I believe that there's an energy oligarchy trying to guard its turf? I'm afraid I do, uh but I I think that because of global

it went black. And that was like this famous line from that interview that got like clipped a bunch cuz, you know, he's this kind of spooky insider. I agree with Hal. There's a famous series came out in the Miami Herald and other newspapers in um probably the '50s. The author was Talbot. And he did a series where he found out that a number of aerospace companies were suddenly interested in anti-gravity. And that people like

DeWitt, on up and down, really top-level physicists were suddenly getting grants to look at the idea of anti-gravity. For example, the Gravity Essay came along. It's from the Gravity Research Foundation in Boston. Right. And so, it looked like it's going to be a big explosion. But anyway, then it all sort of quieted down. Like I could take two implications of that, and that is it quieted down because nobody ever got

Or it quieted down because they did get somewhere and it went black. So, you think from Hal that's like a I can neither confirm nor deny statement and I would say confirming it. Hal Hal uh is still very much part of that world, and he has to follow its rules. Why did Why do you agree with Hal that anti-gravity updates were made and and and went black? Well, obviously, if you have anti-gravity technology or what they call gravity modification. That's

We're not anti-gravity here. We're We just want it to be a little bit more That's right. And so uh so it would have great military importance. Einstein worked very hard on trying to do a unified field theory to unify that you know the four forces of nature. Two of them are infinite range. One is electromagnetism. One is gravity. Mhm. The weak and the strong force they run things at the size of the nucleus in the And they're powerful but they don't have

long range. Einstein just figured okay, I can pick out the two long-range forces and unify them. And he made a lot of progress and he helped get Kaluza-Klein theory which has a hidden fifth dimension to unify gravity and E&M mathematically. He helped get that published. Uh he didn't like the fifth dimension but he that it it the math worked out so beautifully that it must be true.

Fifth dimension is one of my favorite groups during the '60s by the way. So uh Up up and away. Up up and away. Wait wait but so you're saying that Einstein might have figured out the unification mathematically cuz the the modern understanding is that No he well um there's a saying that on his deathbed he suddenly became ecstatic and was started talking excitedly to his nurse in German. Mhm. Like he'd had a a conceptual breakthrough. Mhm. And the nurse didn't understand German. So then

he got back in his bed, lay down and passed away. So he died happy. So he may have some last moment Hal Puthoff and I both have come up with similar theories. And um we just did it by just simple deduction and you know from physics. The nice thing about gravity theory and electromagnetism, you don't need to have a quantum theory of gravity to unify

gravity and EM. There is electromagnet, you know, there's electromagnetic effect I found that looks just like gravity. You can call it radiation pressure. Mhm. And uh Saunders-Sakharov found something very similar and this is what led Hal Puthoff to develop his work. And um the only thing different between my theory and Hal Puthoff's theory is my theory predicts big G. Okay. The gravitation constants and uh and the

mass of the proton. Imagine, beginning of the universe, the Big Bang. Before the Big Bang, nothing. Mhm. Suddenly, 1 second later, Mhm. the universe is a fireball of hydrogen plasma. Mhm. Almost pure hydrogen, like 1% neutrons. Enough to trigger some uh you know, nuclear reactions. But it's it's basically just hydrogen. So, the the vacuum is hardwired to make hydrogen. Electrons and protons,

which are both stable, they last And um so, and if you ratio their um their their masses, it's 1836 and the square root of that is 42. Which I did not know when I wrote I did not know about Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy when I wrote my original theory and derived that result. The key number of the universe is 42.85, as it turns out to. Well, I so I want to get into your unification theory towards the end of the episode because I think that's

vacuum tube technology kind of mission. Um and they sent these probes to Mars. They photographed the surface of Mars in great detail with just superb cameras. They landed two landers to tested the soil for um life. And they got mixed results which now can be interpreted as they they found life but um at the same time they also sampled the atmosphere and um uh found

a a great excess of radiogenic isotopes. They're stable isotopes but they're formed by you know, powerful nuclear reactions. They found that on Mars and that made Mars unique. It was so unique that when then when then we started getting meteorites, we started recognizing, oh, there's these strange meteorites. And it looks like they come from Mars and they tested the gas trapped in the and they found the same the same pattern of strange radio strange isotopes in the Mars what they

solar system here. And the you said there was one other argon There was a also there's a when you irradiate rocks that have potassium in them and all rocks do they produce a isotope called argon 40 and that's super abundant on Mars. So you have two things that are products of what looked like an intense nuclear reaction on Mars in the and they're both they're most the

residues of that remain in the atmosphere they're stable and they last um but they also found what looked like archaeology on Mars and that was the initially the most exciting thing. I only found out the significance of the isotopes on Mars from a staffer at Sandia Labs. What's the convention if I were to you know be sitting across from Neil deGrasse Tyson you know

I've I've No, but would he admit that we found Oh, oh, yes, he would. Yes, he That's a fact. That's a fact. Indisputable. And um So, he would he would just say there's probably some other explanation, but I don't know what it is or But yeah, that's what he would say. I I have reviewed the literature very carefully on this. You can imagine I'm sticking my neck out as a scientist. Yeah. But I found that the the consensus among the real experts on isotopes, not just on Mars, but other

second thing, the argon 40, that's a result of some sort of explosive event with potassium. Is that Well, it's it's it means a lot of potassium was irradiated by neutrons. Okay. It which is a typical byproduct of any hydrogen bomb or any atomic any nuclear explosive produces a lot of neutrons. That's where they got the neutron bomb. And okay, so that's interesting. Okay, so let's that's kind of hard to argue, that's right. Like that's that's one piece of evidence, right? Now, let's let's get

calling these shots? The intel and defense defense department. NASA's NASA is a I call it a hood ornament on the mysterious black sedan, which is the real space program in the country. Okay. And that's just completely bound up with it. It is. They They make sure that they clear everything with the three-letter agencies. Okay, so you have That's my understanding. So you have this face face of Sidonia, the pyramid of Sidonia, you have this other artificial structure, which has recently been popularized.

The squa- the square on Mars and I call it the Mars Masada. The the square on Mars, you have the even conventional understanding that there was probably water on Mars. Oh, yes. There was an ocean on Mars and what happened is we found that there was a shoreline Uh-huh. near Sidonia Mensa and it was on the it was like on the Riviera of Mars and we followed the shoreline around at the at the cuz they had good elevation contours. Mhm. And uh we found that the elevation contour of what was called 0 km Mhm. wrapped all the way around the

planet and the transition in terrain was dramatic. It was rocky and rugged above elevation and below it it was all Mhm. Obviously it was all ocean bottom and also the river channels all fed into this uh basin. And and if you were talking to a conventional astronomer or Neil deGrasse Tyson, nobody could argue with that. No. everybody says that water probably existed on Mars. Well, yes, one guy kept saying it was liquid carbon dioxide, which is which is

ridiculous. And is that taken into That's the only other that's the only you had to have something that was common that liquid that was liquid Mhm. uh to make these channels and water is the most abundant chemical compound in the universe. It's made of hydrogen and and oxygen is the third most abundant element in the universe. And so um so it has to be water. Mhm. And so it's been confirmed. I gave my paper at

Yes, he says He said, "Why are you causing this trouble?" I was at Sandia Labs, I'm working on directed energy weapons, and he calls up yeah he I get this phone call and he says uh you know, "Is this Carl Sagan? I want to talk to Brandenburg." And he's I said, "Why are you causing this trouble?" As you know, I'm always on the hunt for things that help me stay sharp, focused, and full of energy while I'm diving into life's mysteries and making this show happen. And I've got to WTR has completely transformed

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he knew all sorts of stuff and uh apparently I was uh I was the first author on this paper we'd given at this conference. And um he he kind of was very dismissive. Then we found the second face and we advertised that at this conference. And face it. And uh it was some place they just called it Utopia. And um I got a phone call, another phone call from him. He said, "I'm sorry I was kind

of uh short with you on the phone." and I said, "You know, we found another face." He says, "Yes, I heard about that. Could you send me a copy maybe of this face, a picture of it, and tell me where it is?" And I said, "Sure." So I I I had a bunch of pictures I stuffed them in an envelope and I said, "You know, I got his address, Carl Sagan at Cornell University astronomy department." And I put it in the mailbox and I I actually watched the mailbox truck take it away

and go. And then um at that time I was at Sandia Labs and I left there in in in the next month and I was moving to Washington D.C. to work at Mission Research Corporation, really excellent scientific organization supporting the and the agencies. And so when I got there I gave him a call gave his office a call and said, you know, what do you think of the you know, I just talked to his secretary. I said, "Uh this is Brandenburg checking in. I'm in Washington D.C. now. Just wondered what he thought of the pictures.

in those days people didn't have cell phones. It was all if you were lucky you had a beeper. Yeah. And over the next and I'm going in and out because we're doing all these marketing meetings. It's the Reagan Arms build up. My God, there's all this work going on in Star Wars and stuff. Every time I come back to the office the the office manager who's this very nice lady and he says John Carl Sagan called and wants to talk to you and I would get on the phone to his office and of course he wasn't

there. And so we played telephone tag for 2 weeks. Mhm. And finally I'm talking with my boss about we're going to go to Naval Research Lab and pitch this program and and the office manager walks in and she says, "John has a phone call." And then my boss just looks at her like really annoyed. Like what is this, you know, why are you interrupting our meeting? And and she says, "It's Carl Sagan." and my boss looked really amazed and said, "Well, I guess you better take the

call, John." So it gave me instant credibility. I mean everybody it's kind of talked about me cuz of my Mars work this, you know, and Were they like, "Yeah, why's why's Carl Sagan on the but well, they really they kind of made fun of me as the Mars guy and then suddenly Carl Sagan is trying to get a hold of me all the time. And so I go to my office and here's Carl Sagan on the phone. I said, "Well, Carl, what did you think of the pictures?" He says, "I never got them."

silence. I said, "Okay. Here's the frame number. Here's the long lat. Here's the, you know, I'm going to fax you a copy right now. You know, just give me a fax number I'll fax it to you." And that's what we did in those days before internet. And he said, "Thank you." And he He called me back later and said, "You this isn't as big as the first one." I said, "It's about two I said, yes, about two-thirds the size." He says, "But uh yeah, it's very interesting." He

says, "It's very interesting." And And that was it? And that was it. That was it. And then they changed the name of the region from being just Utopia to Galaxis Chaos. And I really What What's the significance of that? Chaos means kind of cliffy ground. So, it was kind of a technical description, but it was apparent that I'd thrown somebody's galaxy into chaos by finding this second face of Mars that looked

found I'd found and digested the isotopic evidence. And when it all kind of sitting in my office, it all hit me. I wept like a child for about 4 minutes. Why? Cuz they were all dead. It looked like a thermonuclear holocaust and it happened there and uh we were so afraid it would happen on Earth working at Sandia Labs. And I just I just was just overcome with grief.

a few minutes, I said, "Get a hold of yourself." I just started I said, "Get a hold of yourself. Get a grip." You know, and I said, "Don't be sad, be happy." Cuz now you know. Now you know. The universe has no safety net. Bad things can happen in the universe and make sure they don't happen here. So, it became I became very very dedicated at point to see that we have a human mission to Mars, boots on the

to find out exactly what happened on Mars to make sure it doesn't happen That's my focus. Isn't one popular theory even in again conventional circles that Mars had a magnetosphere? And that allowed for water to exist and stuff and that its magnetosphere was somehow stripped? Uh well, Mars is only half the size of Earth. It has about 1/8 of the mass of Earth. What that means is its core

would have cooled off quicker and the the molten core is what allows the liquid iron dynamo that generates the magnetic field on Earth to exist. So, Mars may have just run out of gas, but Okay, so the magnetosphere just died out. died out. Uh it's that wasn't So, you think they had actually extincted themselves before that or after that they were unrelated? so. I think uh Mars and and for every for the audience, the magnetosphere

with a nice greenhouse going. Mhm. On Mars, greenhouse effect was not a bad word. It helped Mars to have Earth-like temperatures even though it was farther from the Sun. And what happened then was um suddenly all that was gone. The Something some cataclysm what looks like a thermonuclear holocaust blew most of the atmosphere off into space. So, it's only got a thin tenuous atmosphere left and it leaked all its heat and um a greenhouse planetary

greenhouse traps heat. So, even the core stays hotter. Uh so, it could have it could have accelerated the decline of the magnetosphere on Mars and losing its atmosphere. And there's still areas of Mars that are still strongly magnetized and they found aurora over them. Due to the magnetic field presence. Yes. Wasn't there a meteorite found in Alaska as well in the '90s that Clinton then spoke about publicly?

really rather convincing. And but they were attacked viciously. We have uh archaeological structures on Mars that seem to imply that water existed at the very least. We have, you know, conventional astronomers saying, you know, there was probably a magnetosphere back back in the day and that would allow for a Yes, it would. And then you have these artificial You don't even need uh you there could have been water in the ocean life in the oceans without even it being on land and it would survive the

radiation because of the sea water stops all the radiation. Right. Right. And then you have you have artificial structures and then you have Carl Sagan calling you saying why you making all this trouble. So there's a seems like a decent amount of evidence that at least at the very least this is worthy of further investigation and you know maybe we should move our probability from 0% life on Mars to much higher than that. Oh I I I think the data has received and then you have the critical mass has achieved critical mass And and you have

but the fact that he's being given coordinates for a million years ago is fascinating and so what do you and then I was just at his place and he's showing all these between him and JPL people or whatever and like and with these photos that they're sending him and I'm like are you are you sure this is real and you're not being like duped or whatever and he's he's showing me these photos of tons of artificial structures on Mars and I'm he's basically implying to me that it's an open secret at Jet Propulsion Lab that there was life on Mars and I'm like

why are they not publicly making a statement about this and he's like oh well they don't need to and I'm like what what are you talking about like the old stagers like these these other you know citadel keepers I know. rule of day. So so, but no, but The old guard of Mars. Actually, if you were to walk into JPL and talk to a or, you know, a random sample scientist there, randomly sampled scientist there. If you were to walk into JPL and you were to talk to a randomly sampled scientist there and say, "Hey, like there was I think

there was life on Mars, you know, a long time ago and they might have, you know, extincted themselves." What would they say? Would they call you crazy and laugh you out of the room or Their eyes would dart around to to see if they were being anyone was listening. And then they'd say, "Yes, but don't tell anybody I told you so." Why is that Why is that not some like, you know, thing that humanity should just immediately know? That's just interesting and exciting and Uh, it's

my explanation Yeah. it's partly due to just old-fashioned institutional politics and agendas. Jet Propulsion Lab versus, you know, the robotic space program versus the human space program based at Houston. But it also has to do with the chilling effect on American science and global science because of the UFO cover-up. Um, I uh you know the I can say the the Mars bone is

connected to the UFO bone and the UFO bone is connected to the head bone of this government. And so, it would be disruptive from like a we are the sole authority on on Earth or disruptive from a religious perspective and it would just kind of upset people's worldviews and that sort of thing. that's that's there's a great deal to that and that's and that's kind of old-fashioned thinking. If people's the public's understanding and awareness has evolved sufficiently now that if you told them there was life on Mars, they would just accept it, especially if it's

bacterial life. And even a dead civilization on Mars is not threatening. It's not going to invade us. We've gone so far beyond. We're saying that there are saucers and hangers at Aerospace Corporation and stuff. And like, you know, the people are getting into all this psychic stuff. There's the number one podcast in the country for a bit was the Telepathy Tapes. And and and you're saying that people can't believe that, you know, a million years in the past there there was life on Mars. If anything, we live in this multipolar world that's a a complete powder keg

where you have mutually assured destruction between global powers that have nuclear arsenals. It would be an amazing wake-up call. Oh, it would be. It'd be wonderful. Uh but at the same time, you you got to realize the public needs to be brought up to speed. it's it's Once you find life on Mars, then you know there's life in the stars. It's just a given. If it's if it's here on Earth and it was on Mars, and it's still on Mars, by the

Uh there's a remnant biosphere there. Um and we have very strong evidence for that. Then uh then they know people know that there's life elsewhere in the cosmos. They've gotten over the first hurdle. The second hurdle is are we the only intelligent life in the And then you find the Martian archaeology, and then you realize, "Oh, we're not the only intelligence uh culture in the universe. There was

there's a dead humanoid civilization. What's interesting, the faces look human. They don't look like lizard men. They don't look like praying mantises. They don't look like little gray aliens. You think the faces are fake? Cuz there there is a concept called pareidolia. Call call call Oh, sure. Where you see a face because it's a pattern that you're used to seeing or Yeah, there's a Yeah. you're you're you're sure that that face is a monument that was specifically built to resemble it's slightly eroded like all archaeology. You look at pictures of the

Sphinx when it was first photographed, it looks like hell. They've spruced it up a lot for the tourist bureau in in Egypt cuz it's money, you know, and they they want people want to come there and see this this good face. But the thing is is that there's pareidolia and there's also another phenomenon in Egypt that's called denial. It's called denial. Denial is not just a river in Egypt. There's what's called a reverse

and you know, for the for Israel three times or something. He's like very well respected. Yes, he is. And in conventional circles. And I actually am in touch with like an an understudy of his who speaks very highly of him and and But Mossad knows. Yeah, but But Mossad, they know. It's their business to know. I'm sure they do. And so, and and hopefully I would love for Haim to speak and for him to come out because that would be such a an

amazing crossing of the Rubicon as far as his background and credentials and I I he's We're talking He's getting older. But he says that there's a Galactic Federation, that there are like factions of aliens fighting each other, and that there are American astronauts working with aliens under uh the ground in Mars that there's like a biosphere under underground or something. Does that Does that seem crazy to you or I'm I'm I'm amazed he's saying that um Let's talk about a guilt-free

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I tend to uh believe that uh we should just have a public program to send astronauts to Mars. But my my basic thing is 1 2 3. You go like there's life on Mars, past and present. There's a dead civilization on Mars that looked just like us and built stuff that looks like us. It's not a threat to us. It's not threatening. Mhm. They look primitive. They look bronze age. They were look human. They and they're dead. And did I forget

he goes the men he goes the the the the the people from space. He was talking about JFK and then he goes, "What do you think about the people from space?" And then he immediately there's some weird non sequitur to Mars. There's no reason not to think that Mars and all these planets don't have life, you know, because we Well, Mars we've had probes there and rovers and I don't think there's any life there. it's life that we don't know about. Maybe it's there was life there at one point in time. Do you think like the highest levels of our government are aware Yes, they are. Yes, they are. Okay. and then and there's just some tacit

cover-up because of some kind of Cold War secrecy overhang of not wanting to kind of rock the boat too much. the the UFO cover-up is the the crown jewels, but the the you know, the treasure in the box of treasure is actually on Mars. What what what about the moon? Is the moon bound up cuz there are some weird the moon has a lot of you know, we've been to the front side of the If people want to watch Earth and monitor our stuff,

then the moon is strategic. Mhm. So, you would have bases there, but you have them on the far side interestingly enough. It's almost as if you're afraid we'll see them. The UFO cover-up people didn't want any extraterrestrial life or intelligence talked about. But, Mars My my view is the human race is extremely fortunate. We have a nearby planet easily accessible just by camera we don't even use need to use breakthrough propulsion to get there. We can get there with sheet metal,

is a golden opportunity for the US government to advance disclosure without making the public feel threatened. Var- Yeah, it's good I like that. That's a like a political Yeah. You don't want you don't want it's the bad signal. Yeah, yeah. Well, okay, let's hope the right people hear that. Um that that would be an interesting kind of Elon Musk can call me anytime he wants. I love it. And I'll take calls from President the President, too. President Trump. I'm sure you will.

I don't I don't know. I don't believe any of it. You don't believe any of that? My favorite quote about Jet Propulsion Lab is actually from Whitley Strieber, who I've sat down with a couple times. And he said one of the managements people had said at Jet Propulsion Lab, um, they were talking about finding life on Mars and one manager had scolded the rest of the managers saying, "Don't you realize that life on Mars means death for JPL? Because that'll mean Houston.

This is This is This is uh Houston versus Pasadena. Ah. And Mars right now is an all-you-can-eat buffet for Jet Propulsion. Why is it Why is it death for JPL? I don't believe it. Because it means that they'll get all the money will go to the human space flight, not robotics. And by the way, But well, you would you That's really limited thinking. Well, that's a That's very limited thinking. I don't believe it. I don't believe that, but they do. That can't be

the over That I mean, they they they have to be smarter than to actually believe that. I'm sorry, but like you have to believe that if we found life on Mars, you would get a net increase both on the robotics and human side as far as exploration in mind. I My My But that's not the way if you're in upper management at Jet Propulsion Lab, you might not look at it that way. You're risk-averse and you're you're you're you're you're a bureaucrat and you you don't get fired. You don't want to rock the boat. I understand all those local incentives, but the idea that you

wouldn't have more resources poured into your organization, um which ultimately is probably even good for your local incentives if you were a higher-up there. But you were talking about this ontological truth that rocks the boat on a social level. And usually the people that work at these places are not selected for based on their, you know, desire to rock the boat. So Yeah. Uh yeah. I can see how emergently you'd net out anti-disclosure of something like this, maybe. But I still think it's ridiculous and like they should just disclose it. If If they

believe it of money get large enough, even ridiculous things that normal people like us would think it are ridiculous become concerns. And um they uh they view that uh things are working fine. Mhm. Why fix it? Mhm. Mhm. Why change anything? Can Can you So cuz I'm sure a lot of people are going to accuse both of us of being quacky or crazy just because Oh, get used to that. Of course. I'm I am used to it. But um is there anything

found it with, you know, they fired in space to raise the orbit of the spacecraft. It was a space tug. What company operationalized? Momentus. Momentus Space? Yes. They do like ride share and space tugs Uh they're doing space tugs. I worked there as a consultant for a summer and got everything running for them and um So it was it was great fun and I have the patent on it. Uh and uh I think the patent's expired. They wait They waited till the patent had expired and then hired me as a consultant to get it to fly. So it's it's a So that was one

thing I did. Um I'm also the only person who's gotten uh a simple formula for big G with no diddle factors in it. I took it to a string theory conference and presented it there and they did gave me the ultimate compliment at that conference. What did they say? mad at me. Yeah, that's great. Cuz they've never been able to derive the value of the gravitation constant from string theory. How do you like the thing about theories of everything which you it's so hard. You know, I'm like I'm

yeah, like my buddy Eric Weinstein, he has a theory of everything called geometric unity. You have quantum loop gravity. You have That's been discredited now. Sure. You have string theory. You have so many theories of everything. And if you're My theory is not a theory of everything. It's a theory of basically what's Pretty much. You have Wolfram physics. My point is is like Oh yeah, well you know, we're all we're tr- all trying to solve the big problem. The Einstein unification problem we're

trying to solve. But the string theory people have gotten distracted by adding 11 new dimensions when all you need is actually just one new dimension. Can you accept That's the That's actually the thumb on the hand. dimension. Can you experimentally prove your theory? Yes. How? Oh, I presented it at a conference. Uh we got experiments where we uh found we could pulse electromagnetic fields and uh uh get a local weakening of gravity that we could easily measure was like a one part per thousand. It wasn't, you know,

we didn't have any flying around the room. It was was basically our coils at beneath balloons that we could turn on the power and they If you if you got some physicist from Stanford or MIT or whatever to, you know, try to stress test the experimental protocol, would they have anything they'd be able to say like it get to discredit the experiment? No. So, this is what I like to Well, you know, I I got up we have three different methods of doing this and I presented it to APS meeting gravity modification.

yeah, yeah. And you know, and I um I'm I'm waiting for somebody to verify because we It's it's it's it's interesting and I don't know, you know, it may I don't know if your theory's right or wrong, but like it's interesting I speak to a lot of these scientists at prestigious places like a buddy is a PhD you know, physics at I'm like, you know, talking to him about experiments that could prove various theories of everything and he's always like it needs a wow factor. And I'm always like, well, why if it

what if it doesn't have a wow factor, but it just like measures out accurately on this thing and like you can you can about a big budget. No, but that it's true. It's like you have all these theories of everything and a lot of them are attached to scientists like yourself who seem like they've done credible things in other areas. So, like you can't a priori just write off, but the the theory is That doesn't stop anyone. But the theory is sort of sitting in this like liminal space where you're like I got this small effect and then like I'm waiting for peer review or

whatever. Like nobody else is qualified to peer review it and like the effects are small and it's just extremely it's frustrating. Oh, it it is frustrating, but I've learned to become patient and Uh, know, I presented it at a conference it was well received. I showed everything on how to do it. And What do you What do you need resources wise to make this experiment successful? You can do these experiments for about uh the simplest experiment you can do for about $200. And then the other ones You can do the simplest experiment you can

do for $200? Yes. Are you serious? It's just a Mylar balloon with some uh toy motor armature hung beneath it. You hit it with about um 30 W of AC power at about 400 Hz and it will get a little bit lighter and the balloon will rise. So you'll see weight You you see weight reduction and it's it's just a balloon. It's just It's It's just something hanging below the balloon. I have a video of it and uh I can uh and and uh and then we also did

we hung it from um hung a coil is the the the best way to do it is use Tesla three-phase rotating Which is very commonly used now in a lot uh motors for uh drones. It's very lightweight, very compact, very powerful. And we got things to lose they weigh 100 g and we get them to lose like half a gram. Can you explain what's happening to cause the weight reduction?

Uh yes. So I mean we have what's it called a vacuum Bernoulli equation. Which basically says if you imagine uh people are used to electric lines of force. That's you know, that's uh you know, somebody touching uh Van de Graaff generator and your hair all stands up. Those are electric lines of force. Uh the the hair basically is materializing those. And then uh magnetic lines of force, you just shake uh put a piece of paper over a magnet and shake iron filings, you see these

lines of force from the magnetism. And then gravity has lines of force, too. It's basically just, you know, raindrops fall, lines of force and gravity. And um apparently uh we get the lines of force to um move away from the object and just be surround uh just concentrated in the areas around the object. And so the object itself feels less gravity.

And that's the center of mass. And so the it it if it's like hung underneath a uh the balloon will rise and and uh cuz it's more buoyant, you know, it's less uh there's less force there is seeing the force of buoyancy. And then or you can put it on a chemical scale and do it that way. People don't like doing the chemical scale because they can you know, it looks like well, maybe the electromagnetic field's interfering with the coil uh the um chemical scale, but we we're able to show that that wasn't happening. So

you're where where in your in your theory, where does gravity and electromagnetism, where do they unify? Okay, they unify the key to unifying gravity electromagnetism is called the pointing vector. If you combine electric and magnetic fields like in a ray of light it points in the direction of the travel of the light photon, the light ray, uh and it's it's the the direction of the radiation Um the theory I proposed uh shows that

uh if you have two objects in a room or a weightless let's say you have a box on the space station, no gravity. You have uh and it's a dark box and then you put two bright objects in there, they will repel each other due to mutual radiation But if you turn the box white hot and then have two dark objects in there, they'll actually attract each other because of mutual shadowing with a 1 over r squared force, the same as And that's a conceptual way, but then

there's of course there's the plasma physics way where you um you have two two plates uh charged uh differently so that there's electric field between them and there's a magnetic field running down the plates uh across the faces of the plates. And everything every charged particle you put in there uh regardless of mass, regardless of charge, all drift in the same direction at the same rate. Then if you can't the uh if you tilt the plates relative to each other, they all accelerate at the same rate. It looks

just like gravity. And so I wrote the theory around that. Um one interesting um result of it is that when you combine that with the tensor metric tensor formulation of general relativity in uh you get that the the vacuum weighs nothing, which is reassuring. The anti-gravity effect of the zero point fluctuations actually neutralize their own mass. So that the gravity ends

up weighing nothing in my theory. And uh and then of course it involves also the fifth dimension. So you can show that you can derive the value of the gravitation constant. fund you to work on this? Yes, 200 grand. And what did what happened at the end of that? I handed them a report and they said, "Thank you, Dr. Brandenburg. Here's your check. Don't let the door hit you when you go out of the building." They didn't say we think this is valid or invalid.

Oh, some of them said that they thought this was quite valid and they were very pleased. But other but the head of the whole program who was signing all of the head of the program uh had a very poker face and he just said, "Thank you, Dr. Brandenburg, for your help." So, I I got the feeling that I they wanted to know what I knew. I had a DARPA program manager in here named John Bletch and he didn't say this. This is my speculation, but he kept having these programs in certain cases with

nine-figure budgets. Hundreds of millions. And they would seem to get start to get successful results or at least be very promising at at the start and then they would sort of go into a black box and like, you know, they would they would disappear. It happens. It means you're doing good So, that means you're doing good work because you think it's being funneled into some sort of Yeah, it's just going it's going black. You think that's going black? Do you think that's going to the legacy UFO I No, I think it'll all come out. In fact, what's interesting Well, no, what do you What Where is that

going? Where's the work going though when it gets funneled? Oh, Site 51. Area 51. Yeah. I mean, they they probably found some parts of my theory interesting. I I think they had a working kind of engineering working model of a that gave them, you know, the effects they wanted, but they always wanted to get, you know, a more polished physics model. So, were you ever Did they ever try to recruit you to legacy UFO efforts I sensed that they were kind of

trying to do that at one point, but um What happened? I was blackballed by somebody. That's And that's okay. I I I decided I was probably fortunate because I would have ended up at Site 51 and a lot of bad stuff happens out there. Who blackballed you and how did it how did they approach you initially? Oh, well, I was uh talking to uh one of the intel agencies people and they What which which can you say which agency? Uh I'd rather not. Okay. And

then they uh um they kind of invited me to uh discuss things more deeply and then then I was invited to the headquarters of this agency and went through a very bruising um kind of interrogation about something else and they it was like this person didn't want me involved and he was trying to make me uh look like I was a

uh person, you know, and so it what was funny is the person who was trying to recruit me apologized to me before I even went into the room to meet with these people and uh he says, "I'm sorry, John, about what's going to happen." I had been blackballed. And who was the and so yeah, who was the person blackballing you? Do you have a sense of I didn't know his name at the time. I found out his name later, but I'd rather

not talk about it. You don't want to talk about it? Okay. It was in the you know, it was in the lower levels of an interesting building and I just you know, it was it was I did think all of us have have good and bad days as scientists and it was uh I I I didn't feel badly about what my answers were, but they this one person was very unhappy with me and so I it was kind of his way of getting me ruled out. And um so it was a it was an adventure,

but uh I've you know, I also become aware that a lot of the safety considerations that you find at a normal government facility are not followed at Site 51. Mhm. And also Have you been to Area 51? No, never been there. And uh but I've I've heard of cases of people, you know, being told to dispose of very hazardous materials, getting sick, and uh getting cancer, and uh then they ask, "Well,

what was I you know, what was I handling that gave me this this thing?" And they said, "You don't work here anymore. You never worked here. This place doesn't exist." And one guy had to take pictures of it from the highway and said, "I used to work there." He had to tell a federal judge, "See this all these buildings in the distance in the desert? I used to work there." And the government attorneys denied seeing any buildings in the pictures. Jesus. I

know. That's horrible. It was, and I So, I was very glad I didn't end up there, and um Yeah, they were they were basically The people were basically told, "Take this stuff out to, you know, the back 40, dig a big pit with a bulldozer, hose it down with diesel, and burn it." Jesus. And then this And then they they stood there in the smoke and and the the orders were so stupid that it was upwind

of the uh facility. So, this this horrible chemical smoke got all over the facility. Everyone was coughing and wheezing, and they then developed cancer, lung cancers from what it is they were disposing of. And that's when they tried to And the government then fired them all and wouldn't cover their medical costs. It was just a It was just a It was It was a horror story and they they Yeah, the the crucial day was they they showed a picture of Site 51 taken from some

viewpoint on the highway where you can actually see it. And the federal judge said, "Yeah, I see the buildings there." And they said, "That's where we used to work." And and the government attorney said, "We don't see any pictures We don't see any buildings in those pictures." Have you heard of a Z I used to work uh next to the Z machine at Sandia. What is that? Well, it was a what's called a Z pinch means zeta. It means uh you're running a bunch a kind of a miniature lightning bolt through a chamber and it the magnetic uh force crushes the

plasma so you can get fusion that way and that's a way to get fusion. And uh at Sandia Labs, they decided to make the chamber really small and the bank of capacitors that powered it We're talking a million lightning strikes worth of power. Do you think you get with sort of high energy physics, directed energy, that sort of thing, do you think you get weird uh side effects with time? Because in general relativity, gravity and time are

then what do you Where does that lead you ontologically? Cuz I Well, it it gives you warp drive. You can open up maybe a portal to Alpha Centauri, uh know, a time with a you wormhole connecting you to Alpha Centauri. So, do we have some sort of like sub rosa space program that involves like portals to like other like star systems or something or By By the time you realize we're not the only intelligent people in the universe and we're not the most advanced because

the universe is a lot older than we are. And uh then you kind of have to adopt a slightly science fiction attitude that well, kind of everything is possible. Then you kind of finally say, well, what's probable? Um you'd say, well, if we had stuff like that then people would blab about it in their sleep or at in a bar or something. But then they do. Right. Yeah, I don't know. I mean So, we don't we don't know. It's it's all very

there's a there's a a part of intelligence work that's called rumor int. Mhm. People ruminate over things. But actually no, it's rumor intelligence. Do you but so do you know anything so that you would say no or yes on that sort of program as some sort of super say probably not but maybe. Okay. Like I said, the only times I've been really wrong in my career is when I've told people, "Ah, that nobody could ever do that." Yeah, sure, sure, sure. What um you know

a lot about what happened at Roswell in Yes. Um so so what happened there? Uh You know, it's known as the most famous UFO crash perhaps of all time. This like dividing line, the advent of the nuclear It is. It is. It was the It was the beginning of the nuclear age. It was World War II had not even been over for 2 years. Everyone was still on an adrenaline high because of World War II and how it had turned out.

And they had a Roswell was only about 100 miles, I think, from the Trinity site where they tested the first nuclear where they turned the desert to glass. And it was a plutonium bomb, so there and the fallout those days with people thousands of people getting killed every day on Iwo Jima and Okinawa, they you know, they don't they didn't worry about safety stuff that much, so the fallout full of plutonium

uh that didn't get burned up in the explosion, it just was still there passed over Roswell, so there had a big strip of of uh ur- uranium uh plutonium contaminated soil around Roswell that they conveniently didn't tell anybody And so then they had this uh the 509th, I think it was the 509th Bomber Group there. They had all the nuclear weapons on Earth were stored at Roswell. Wow. All five of them. Wow. They had

the delivery system for nuclear weapons, and they had all the nuclear weapons on Earth stored there. And so they he said they concentrated their security uh operations there. They didn't tell the people at Roswell Army Air Base about it, though. They were out of the loop. It was So, the UFO cover-up even in those days was operating as a compartment in the US So, I talked to the veterans from Roswell. You spoke to the veterans?

wreckage out there. And um so they said uh everybody was seeing UFOs. So, the uh base commander, who was a very well-liked fellow, very popular fellow named Colonel Blanchard, called up the newspaper and said um you know, "Look what we found. We found a crashed flying saucer." Nobody you know, he had no orders regarding them at all. And so so they uh then they published in the newspaper. And um what happened was a

bunch of World War veterans who were in a motorcycle gang called the Booze Fighters, which is a play on Foo Fighters, took over uh Hollister, California for a day and had a drunken party downtown. And uh that kind of stole all the headlines that weekend. Uh it was like the weekend of 4th of July. And so then this story came out that they had a crashed UFO. And uh Blanchard, the commander at the base, got this very angry phone call from Fort

Worth, Texas, the big air base there. Uh I can't remember what the general there was in charge, but he basically chewed his head off over the phone and "You're not supposed to talk about that. You know, it's a weather balloon. Don't talk about the the wreckage. It's nothing. It's nothing." And he said, "We're sending people up there to collect everything." So, they said this in back in those days the Army Air Corps was Army Air Corps. It was not the Air Force yet. It was still part of the army. My father was in the Army Air Corps in World War II and he flew out in

flying out of England. And um they said this red-haired colonel showed barking orders. You know, several deuce-and-a-half trucks arrived full of troops. They basically took over Roswell Army Airfield for about a week. They went and gathered up all the wreckage they could find. They had guys walking along side by side across fields, you know, picking up any piece of metal or something. And some guys

apparently put put put put it in their pockets, you know. And so, this red-haired colonel kind of took over the base and uh was known for just screaming at And uh then so then and they flew all the stuff out and they had, you know, I-beams with hieroglyphics on them and they had all these plates and stuff. They they they told me about this stuff and uh at this conference. It was called the remember uh reminiscences

of Roswell. And it was a bunch of people brought together who were the survivor officers and the daughters of the sheriff. And um and uh it was a great experience to be there and I sat at banquet next to these people and and uh we had a great time and um uh but what happened then was then suddenly everything was gone. And life went back to normal and they said they had a the base commander would have a meeting with his chief officers

every Monday morning. And Blanchard the next meeting after everybody the deuce and a half trucks and the screaming colonel had left that they had this meeting and one of the officers at the meeting says, "Well, what did you think about what happened the last 2 And all Blanchard would do was laugh and said, "Boy, did we screw up?" now they that apparently was a bunch of people were completely out of the loop. I mean,

they were guarding the atomic bombs but that didn't mean they knew everything the government knew. And at the same time roughly the morning of 4th of July an object crashed on the plains of San Augustine about 100 miles away. It had a big hole in it in the side. And a bunch of people saw it and then the same red-haired colonel showed up. This was a few days before the Roswell he showed up at Roswell, but this guy showed up

like the morning of the 4th of July screaming orders to everybody and they gathered up this flying saucer that had crashed there with a big hole in the side of it. the dead aliens and there was apparently one live alien and they got them all and just hauled them away. And there was some a team of archaeologists investigating Indian ruins. And um then there were some campers and this red-haired colonel lined them all up and said that if they told anybody about

what they had seen the government was going to kill them. And their families, too. I mean, it was wartime seek war-like secrecy. And you must remember it's less than 2 years after World War II. It was loose lips sink ships. Everybody was still operating that way. Um these people who remember seeing the whole sky light up because of the first nuclear test. And then wondering what had happened and then the government saying, "Oh, we had a

accident in an ammo dump." Mhm. That's what caused the big flash that lit up the entire sky. That's helpful context. That's Oh, yeah. It's It's So the context of it was everyone was used to secrecy. Used to following orders. And used to trusting the government for everything. And uh so then So then um So there were two recoveries. Basically following um roughly the early morning of 4th of July.

they were about 100 mi apart. One of them was a saucer with a big hole in the And the other one was a field of wreckage of uh you know that this something that exploded in midair. And um what I found out was that we had a night fighter during World War II called the Black Widow. Was painted glossy black just like the spider. When the big UFO surge of sightings happened, they pulled all of those night fighter squadrons from

Europe and Japan into the United States and apparently into the Southwest around Roswell. So it Apparently what happened they had those patrolling over Roswell to protect the nuclear weapon stockpile. Do you think there were bodies found at Roswell? Oh, yes. Yes. I'm quite confident that they recovered bodies. They even apparently recovered you know the reports are they covered at least live alien. And they were the little short gray guys with the big eyes. And

And the vultures and coyotes had apparently eaten some of the bodies, too. And you know, that sounds almost like human beings miscalculating. apparently because Uh I wrote a book on this recently called Cosmic Awakening, and I have this all documented in there, or you know, as as best as you can take the reports and document them. Um Uh and um

People make mistakes. Even Even people from outer space make mistakes, just like humans do, right? They miscalculate, and not only that, you're trying to find some plutonium They're there flying over Roswell trying to have figure out how many nuclear weapons we have there, how big they are. And but there's so much plutonium in the area that they have to fly really close to the ground. To to to to get a good signal. In fact,

they're flying two crafts close together so that one can get the kind of noise level, and the other one will get the And you could just imagine and there was apparently a very bad lightning storm that night. So, here are these people from outer space flying around. They're trying to get this very sensitive signal to to get some good data. And there's lightning storms going on, you know, and it's all in electromagnetic interference. Which really bothers like micro sensitive electronics, but they

B-29 Black Widow was vacuum tube technology. They were used to flying through tropical thunderstorms. the conventional story in Philip J. Corso's account and others is that it's some sort of high-powered radar directed energy attack. I I don't think so. It was uh I They They They were During World War II, the Foo Fighters were commonly spotted, and there were all sorts of radar beams flying around. They never reported any crashes then. you know, they they would have been

operating in the Earth's environment with a powerful radar beams scanning around. So, that that is that some sort of myth? Like, that's what Steven Greer and a bunch of other people sort of repeat all the time is that directed energy weapons is how you take these things out, which I I feel awkward talking about cuz I think it's a really bad sort of semi-unethical thing if that's the case. But, not semi, extremely unethical. But, um yeah, is it that's not You don't think that's real? to reflect on the fact that there may

have been secret clashes between our military and extraterrestrials and um Well, one is where it's almost like uh going out in a plastic boat and running into some killer whales and they start ramming your boat. You know, what are you going to do? Well, often it's like I think we lure them in with nuclear material and do this There's uh yeah, there's um Isn't that messed up? Well, there's I heard

accounts saying that the government wanted as many crashes as possible so they could harvest as much technology. And you know, if you if you can't capture one in craft intact, you can maybe capture three pieces of different craft and you know, kind of combine them together and find you know, figure out the systems. So, it was it was the Cold War. We'd just gotten done with World War II. They were fighting the Korean War.

Remember, in 1952 they were overflying uh UFOs were overflying Washington, D.C. And they were still fighting the Korean War in Korea at the time. So, it was very much a I grew up during the Cold War and in the shadow of World War II and it uh it was a you know, I mean all my uncles except for my nuclear physicist uncle had been combat you know, had been in combat

veterans of World War II. Some of the most interesting evidence I found for Roswell is actually that there was a contract between Los Alamos and Battelle Memorial Institute in 1949 and it was around Nitinol and Nitinol is basically this like almost memory metal that Yeah. Yeah. you know, remains unperturbed no matter how much you kind of you know, put stress against it or you know, shape-shift it always kind of goes back into its original form and it's it's really cool and it was like declassified

by Battelle in the 60s. So you have to ask this question, why was it like classified for a decade plus and then why does Los Alamos have a contract with Battelle in 1949, you know, right after the Roswell crash or maybe Aztec crash of 1948. I don't know, but it lends some credence because Jesse Marcel is the most famous account around Roswell. He was you know, shown Yes. what taking a picture next to a weather balloon which he he came out he was a it was a a Air

Force intelligence officer. He came out in 19 this funny look on his face. I love it. In 1979 he came out and he was like, you know, this was a I basically was part of this cover-up and that was BS and in fact I handled this memory metal. Yeah. And that's what he says it was a shape-shifting memory metal. So you have the contract and then you have the fact that he's saying he's handling this metal. I think that's kind of Oh, according to Philip Corso, a lot of stuff recovered from these crashes, especially Roswell was the seed crystal for a lot of the technology we have now.

There's clearly some BS in that book cuz he he had a co-author. I'm blanking on his name, but the co-author gave him 24 hours to edit the thing and so it's like he didn't you know, it was clearly like somehow, you know, that the narrative was was controlled in some ways in a way that sprinkled in BS with some maybe some real elements. So, but That's a standard technique, by the way. Oh, it's that's that's been the strategy in UFO world. It's why I'm so frustrated like doing this show cuz I I know there's so much real stuff, but there's

so much BS. It's the flood is noisy signal as they say. The signal to uh is low. I mean, they have a lot of noise out there and the government will release uh pieces of you know, supposed leaks and they have what they call a a destruct package in them, you know, they have a something that can be immediately proved That's right. The government hands you a mix bag and then you have to sort of like, you know, chew chew through it and it's passage material and it's recruiting and it's it's all it's all

River Site as plutonium, you know, reactor in South Carolina. And he he goes to and he's a serious physicist. He goes to J. Allen Hynek and he says, "You've been, you know, taking part in this cover-up. This is ridiculous. Like, what you saw in Michigan wasn't swamp gas. Like, you know this is BS." And J. Allen Hynek gets all sad and he And then J. Allen Hynek, the the nominal story is that J. Allen Hynek flips to being like reformed and pro-UFO. He had a come to Jesus moment, I guess. I I think that's fake. I I think that's a real story. Actually, this is really

extraterrestrial hypothesis. That's what it feels like. Jacques Vallée then sort of moves out out of and he he moves more into this kind of interdimensional control system hypothesis. Angels. Angels, demons, that sort of thing, which I think is probably directionally more correct or something. But at least I don't know. Who knows? We're seeing a medley of phenomena. But um you know, they're sort of pushing that and then the there is like a little bit of video from I think Edwards or or one of the other Air Force bases, and it it just

drama of him uh sighting things over. There's a a mountain out in the desert at Kirtland Air Force Base called Manzano Mountain and they store nuclear weapons there. He'd sighted UFOs flying over there a lot. Mhm. And had all sorts of recordings from him. The government came to him and said uh uh Paul, don't do this anymore. Quit doing that. And don't talk about it. And and he told them where to stuff it. And um

I d- I wasn't aware. I heard he died in a mental institution. I They yeah. They involuntarily committed him. And that's what happens. Uh generally the government will at least you know, it in a lot of countries they will just take you out and kill you. But in this country they will actually approach you and say quit talking about this. Yeah. Don't don't you know, don't do this anymore. And if you don't listen to them then they they raise the ante and they'll put LSD in your toothpaste or give you cancer or something.

Uh but the reports I heard several reports of it in DC and um uh Leonard Stringfield talked to me about it and he said he'd heard three different versions. The only different version the only difference between the versions was the number of people who got killed, both human and alien. And he said that um so he believed it it really happened because he talked to military veterans. Do you think aliens are good or bad or Oh, they're like us. They're some of Yeah, they're a mix. I mean, if you

pick up pick a human for think they're extraterrestrial or interdimensional or all of them? Well, I think most of them are just flesh and blood like we are. They make mistakes like we do. They crash in the desert, the coyotes and vultures eat their bodies. That doesn't sound like an interdimensional being to me. But at the same time, human beings are partly interdimensional. We have a that is not There are parts of the human being that can't really be isolated and

analyzed scientifically right now and that's probably a good thing. But then I you know I'm just a I'm just an Episcopalian. I I was funny. I was a Pentecostal fundamentalist when I was younger. Because of that I believe in So there are interdimensional beings I believe and what's really fascinating to me is that

the major religions on Earth are cosmic religions where the supreme being is a cosmic God. He's not just a God of Earth. He's not just a God of human beings. He's a God of everything. And that makes our religious heritages among the major religions and I'm I'm most familiar with Judeo-Christianity because I am part of that religion, a Christian. somebody can tell it come from outer space and land in my backyard and say,

"Well, I created you. I own you. I own this planet." And I say, "Well, no, God owns me. Mhm. I don't know who you are. God owns you, too, even if you don't realize it." I said, "You know, look, you may think I'm a speck of dust, you're a speck of dust to God, too. We're all We're all equal in sight of What is God to you? How would you define God? Well, he's a supreme being. He's the almighty. How do you How do you follow God?

Oh, well, I just go to church. Mhm. My My Christianity's fairly boring. I I just go to church and I I worship and it's a very personal thing for me and uh I wouldn't even be doing this unless I felt God wanted me to do it. It's uh some of parts of it are kind of But uh when I realize God is in charge, it doesn't make me afraid anymore. That's beautiful. Well, Dr. Brandenburg,

I really appreciate your time, man. This has been It's been a pleasure and an honor. Yeah, no, likewise. Thank you for the wonderful questions. Oh, yeah. Well, I think people will really enjoy this. Uh yeah, and also I wrote I did I will mention Yes, thank you so much. fiction novel about everything I heard about in Washington, D.C. around the water cooler and the coffee machine. I have uh people who have approached me from Hollywood now. They're going to try and make it into a movie. Cool. Love it. Well, thank you, Dr. Thank you so much. This is a blast, man. Oh, it's great, great. Don, I'm so glad you liked it.