“The Air Force Captured a 12 Foot Giant in Afghanistan!” -Tim Alberino | MEMBERS RELEASE

down. They were extraterrestrial. They mated with man. They created Nephilim. And then we have evidence that a lot of this actually holds astronomical weight in the ancient world. There are ruins of an ancient civilization on the planet Mars, specifically in the region of Cydonia. And this, what's so fascinating about this, is that the ancients believed that the gods descended from Mars. We can understand the modern phenomenon in light of the Book of Enoch. Hearing about the Book of Enoch, and it sounds a lot like Prometheus, where you

have the Titans who try to give mankind sacred knowledge. So these were very, very intelligent beings, probably in possession of what I would describe as advanced aerospace technology. I myself have seen a UFO right above my car. And this thing just descended and just hovered there like I was supposed to see it. That is some top secret.

Nothing too unusual about that. could not be more excited to speak with you. I have been just going through all your stuff, all your podcasts, your book, your amazing book called Birthright, which is really

awesome because I think people in this space, it's always an anecdotal story that's really crazy and interesting. You have a lot of those anecdotal stories. I want to talk to you about the Peruvian face peelers. I want to talk to you about the giants of Kandahar, all of these amazing things that you cover. You're this kind of modern larger-than-life adventurer. But you also are I think a really impressive kind of philosopher and sense maker and you do such a great job in this book Birthright, which I recommend people get, uh in reconciling

the whole kind of alien, you know, NHI phenomena, which is now kind of all the rage with kind of the modern disclosure movement, but with ancient traditions and with the Bible and Plato and in the book of Enoch, which is where I kind of want to start this conversation. So, I appreciate what you're doing. I think it's really cool. What does the Book of Enoch hold in terms of relevance for our life and our world today? Well, let me first say that the feeling is mutual.

I've been watching your pod podcast with great interest. I think, you know, I have to tell you for for some years now I've been waiting for a new generation of competent ufologists to arise because I'm I'm an I'm an OG guy. I like to follow the OG ufological stuff. Um and I feel like there's a lot of noise out there now. There's a lot of people who sort of just come into ufology fresh from from zero and suddenly you have an overabundance of experts saturating social media, but there are a few people

who are who truly have deeply familiarized themselves with the body of material that creates the substrate of what we know in ufology. And and man, you've you've mastered it. And I want to say uh well done. I mean, you you are I'm very encouraged to see what you're And uh you and and people like uh what is it? UFO Girl? >> Yeah, UAP Girl. >> U- UAP Girl? >> She's amazing. >> You guys are just awesome. And it's encouraging to to see this a new

generation of ufologists who who who know their stuff. I I I partially accept that compliment. I thank you. That's really nice of you. I'm bad with compliments. But uh I think, you know, it's funny how how much as you go deeper and you probably know this, too, the more you know, in some ways the less you know, and the greater the surface area of your questions. And so um you know, I yeah. >> It's important to have that foundation, though. Yes. >> Because as I said, so many people are coming into the topic brand new, and they're disregarding

>> we're very lucky, and there's a long rich history here. And I think if anything you know, what I can relay is just going through it with like earnest and like normal ep- kind of epistemics. Like >> right. uh you know, I don't know. And just being an audience surrogate and sort of having the conversations and doing it in like an intellectually rigorous and honest way. And that's all you kind of can do in this field. >> You do very well. You do very well. So, in regard to the Book of Enoch, um

the foundation for Hebrew cosmology as it pertains to the antediluvian world. So, you cannot separate what I call the Enochian narrative or the Enochic tradition. You cannot separate that out from the biblical narrative. It is fundamental to how the Hebrews, ancient Hebrews, view the antediluvian world, the world before the flood. And not only is it the the ancient Hebraic view, it's the view of our antecedents across

the board. The ancient Egyptians, the Mesopotamians, the Greeks, the Romans, they all viewed the antediluvian world in a particular way, namely that it was a time of great learning. It's a time when the the fundamentals of civilization were imparted to mankind from extraterrestrial entities. in the pagan world, and pagan just means everybody but the Hebrews, in the pagan

this was known as the golden age or Zep Tepi to the ancient Egyptians. And it was a time when the gods commingled with mankind, literally. They procreated with human women. They a race of hybrid demigods in the earth. In many accounts, these demigods were Such as in the biblical account and the Mesopotamian the ancient Mesopotamian account, the Epic of Gilgamesh. Gilgamesh himself was a giant. And so, these traditions are ubiquitous

across the earth. this is how civilization began in the minds of our antecedents. Again, whether it be the Hebrew account, you know, the Judeo-Christian account or the pagan Now, among the Jews, there was no greater prophet and scribe. and these are important terms prophet and scribe than Enoch. Enoch was the greatest pre-flood patriarch. He was revered above all others and the Bible says very

little about Enoch. It says that he walked with God uh for 365 years and then God took him. that's pretty much all the Bible says of Enoch and there's a couple of references in the New Testament. But it it always was strange to me as I was a teenager thinking and and reading that the the scant information provided in the biblical text concerning Enoch who clearly was the greatest pre-flood patriarch and the Bible has much to say

about its other prophets and scribes. The Bible says a whole lot about Moses. It says a whole lot about Elijah. It says a whole lot about Noah. It says almost nothing about Enoch. And it occurred to me when I was I think I was 16 years old. I just had got my driver's license and uh my father was a pastor. So I grew up in a very very good home. I had a very very good upbringing. My dad was a excellent father

and pastor. And I had a wonderful mother. My mother died when I was 14. Um but I remember when I was 16 years old I I I drove to um Borders. That's the one that went out of business, right? Borders? Yeah, Borders just sort of I wanted to to to buy a a and I was I was particularly interested in the Pseudepigrapha. And I pulled this the Pseudepigrapha off

the shelf. It was this big, you know, ancient looking book that they had there at Borders. And I was most interested in the Book of Enoch. I'd heard about the Book of Enoch and I didn't really know what it was. And so I I remember pulling it off the shelf and sitting down on a bench in Borders and opening it up and and sort of skimming through the Book of Enoch. I was instantly cap- captivated. And I bought it and I took it home. And that sort of began my my fascination with the antediluvian world. Because what the Book of Enoch does is

it provides, as I said earlier, it provides the the found- the foundation of of Hebrew cosmology in regard to the antediluvian world. I remember, um, reading when I was a teenager, reading the verses in Genesis 6, those enigmatic verses inscribed in Genesis 6 about the sons of God who saw the daughters of men that they were beautiful and they came down and they took wives of all whom they And they copulated with these women and

progenerated a race of giants in the earth called the Nephilim. But that was it. Just this little footnote. It's a It's a It is a a bizarre digression in the Genesis narrative. And this precedes the flood. The next chapter is the flood. And and then you get to the New and and you see Peter referencing the angels who sinned. And as a result are chained in in the in the the the gloomy abyss, Tartarus.

takes verbatim from the Book of Enoch. He copies and pastes into his epistle a few verses straight out of First And it's the same sort of and and and the the the it comes from uh the Book of the Watchers. And the Book of the Watchers in First Enoch is the story of the descent of these beings, of these heavenly beings, these celestial beings. you realize when you read the Book of Enoch that the reference in Genesis 6 is

an abridged version. It's It's It's just an abridged It's a It's a Cliff Note basically of a story that was clearly already well known by the audience. So the author of Genesis when he when he inserts into Genesis 6 again this bizarre digression of the Genesis narrative about these heavenly beings the sons of God who descend and with the daughters of men and and and copulate with them. The reason he doesn't expand on that

story is because it was already well known from oral tradition but I also think from written tradition namely the book of Enoch or some version of the book of Enoch. So the story was was already so well known to the to the audience that the writer of Genesis whether it was Moses or someone else didn't need to retrace the details of this story. It was so well known. It was so essential to the fabric of their cosmology. And and indeed the book of Enoch lays out this story. So what does it say? The

book of Enoch says that in the days of Jared who was the sixth from Adam. Jared was the father of Enoch. these heavenly beings which the book of Enoch denominates as watchers and the watcher denomination is not exclusive to extra biblical text. It's in the Bible. It's in the book of Daniel. that these these beings called the watchers 200 of them decided that they were going to descend to the earth

or maybe they were already on the earth but that they were going to they wanted to take wives from the daughters of men. They wanted to wed the maidens these these the daughters of Adam because they were beautiful and they wanted to procreate with them. And and they wanted to to to to essentially to make families, to sire And these watchers

these 200 watchers knew that this was a grave transgression. And so before they did this thing, they bound themselves on the summit of Mount Hermon. According to the Book of Enoch, they descended on the summit of Mount And they bound themselves by an oath of mutual imprecations. In other words, we're all in this together and we're all going to suffer the consequences whatever befall. So they bind themselves with an oath and that's why to this day Mount Hermon is known as the mountain of oath. Mhm.

so after binding themselves by a oath of mutual imprecations, they descend into the plains, they choose for themselves wives, and then they make a transaction. I believe with the with the fathers of these maidens a dowry of sorts is paid. they provide the the the the fathers provide their daughters' hand in marriage, the maidens, and the watchers in turn as a dowry, remember this is a very patriarchal society in the pre-flood world, the fathers give their daughters' hand

away. It's not like today where, you know, it's mutual agreement, let's get married. In the in in the antediluvian world and even in the ancient postdiluvian world, and still is the case in some parts of the earth, the father gives the daughter's hand in marriage in exchange for something, a dowry. so the watchers receive the daughters' hands in marriage from the fathers and they in turn gave the fathers information, knowledge, forbidden knowledge. Book of Enoch says they gave them the knowledge that they were that the men were striving to learn.

And this I think this was technological Sci- what we would call today scientific And then the watchers just as it says in Genesis 6, they they copulate with their wives who conceive and give birth to a race of giants called the Nephilim. And then what results is men are corrupted by the forbidden knowledge of the watchers, the giants grow to a enormous size and ultimately begin to consume all of the

acquisitions of the land so that men can no longer sustain their appetites. So human beings were basically subjugated to these to this race of giants and they were spending all of their time and energy feeding them and when they could no longer satisfy their enormous appetites, the giants began to devour mankind. And it's at this point that men begin to cry out to God and the court of heaven hears the appeal of mankind and God dispatches some angels to the earth. He

causes the he binds the watchers. But by the way, I should say this is nobody knows the duration of from when the watchers descended the days of Jared to the to the flood of Noah. Uh at the very least you're looking at hundreds of years if not thousands of years of this going on on planet Earth. And then so the watchers are dispatched I mean the the angels are dispatched to the earth. They bind the watchers. But before the watchers are incarcerated

in the abyss, they're forced to watch the destruction of the of their beloved sons of the giants who are enticed who are incited to war with one another. So you have this fratricidal war that takes place among the giants. And I I describe this as the empire of the gods because it's not like, you know, big dumb dis giants from Disney movies when we were growing up, you know, bashing each other over over the head with clubs. These were exceptionally intelligent beings. Their fathers, the Book of Enoch says,

taught them and their and their wives. They instructed them in in their knowledge. So, these they were receiving the instruction of their fathers. So, these were very very intelligent beings, probably in possession of what I would describe as advanced technology, maybe even advanced aerospace technology, which I do believe existed in the antediluvian world. I think that's how the watchers got to the summit of Mount Hermon, by the way, at the helms at the helms of of of advanced aerospace vehicles, what we would describe today as UFOs.

And so, to close out the story, the watchers, rather the giants, go to war with each other. I believe this is a technological war. And then, the flood ensues, the great flood. And the flood was intended to to cleanse the earth of the abominable seed of the And to reset mankind. So, that's it in capsulation, a summarization of uh of what the the first section of the

Book of Watchers describes. Uh the rather the Book of Enoch called the Book of Watchers. It's a great summary. If I were a biblical scholar, would I have any points around the Book of Enoch to say that it's oh, it's just apocryphal and it's not connected to the Bible, and what would you what would you say to those points? um nearly all scholars agree that the Book of Enoch provides the cosmological substrate um um for the ancient Hebrews.

Uh there's no doubt about that. I mean, the the the story is referenced indirectly in the Old Testament, obviously Genesis 6 and in other other portions, but also in the New Testament. In fact, when you get to the New you find Jesus of Nazareth using a title, a very specific title, the title he preferred more than any other. It's a Messianic title, but it doesn't come from the Old It comes exclusively from the Book of Enoch. And that title is the Son of Man.

Now, there are several titles that Jesus could have employed when referencing himself, Messianic titles. And he did use various titles, the Son of God, for example, which he was. But he uses the Son of Man the most. And there is no reference that it's that that is a proper title, the Son of Man. So, the only reference in the Old Testament that that scholars will go to is a reference in the Book of Daniel, where Daniel sees one like a son of man,

but that is a descriptor. That is saying like I saw I saw one who looked like a human being, like an offspring of Adam. It's not a proper title. The proper title the Son of Man comes from First Enoch, specifically from the second section of First Enoch, which is called the Parables. And the Parables are the Oracles of And the Oracles of Enoch pertain primarily to the Son of Man. And were fulfilled, clearly fulfilled in Jesus of Nazareth.

um there is some dispute in regard to when the the the Parables were authored or compiled. The Book of Enoch, first of all, the Book of Enoch is a compilation text with several authors. And and the various sections of Enoch were probably written at different time, different periods of time. The oldest section, namely the Book of the Watchers, containing this the the the Enochian tale of the Watchers, that was written at least circa 300 BC. But I think that that the oral tradition

at least is way older. I think it's began with Enoch. And in fact, the the Hebrews believed that Enoch was the was the inventor of writing. That he was the first to write. remember Enoch was revered as a prophet and a scribe. So, he prophesied and he And it the and a tradition says that those writings were delivered ultimately to Noah and preserved through the flood. So, is it possible that portions of

First Enoch actually originate thousands of years ago? Maybe the very first writing ever conceived by the human was written by the hand of Enoch. And that's why people the contention here is mostly from the secular world that the Bible is all of the stories in the Bible are just copies of the more ancient Mesopotamian texts. Well, sure, but what if the the the foundation for those stories goes all the way back to Enoch? Then everybody's copying Enoch and

everybody has a has a version of what Enoch wrote. And it's very possible in my mind that the Hebrews have the most faithful rendition of what was of the oral traditions and of of of in in in fact of the written compositions that came from the antediluvian world, which far predate the ancient Mesopotamians. And Enoch was related to Noah, is that right? >> Yes. Yes, I believe Enoch was his great great grandfather. Uh Enoch was the father of Methuselah,

who's the father of Lamech, who was the father of Noah. >> Interesting. And yeah, in the Old Testament you have the Methuselah, a lot of these guys lived for very long periods as well, which I think cause you to ask all sorts of interesting >> That's right. Yeah, it's so fascinating. How how is it found? How was the Book of Enoch discovered? The Book of Enoch was preserved by the Ethiopians. Mhm. Um and had the had had had the Ethiopians not preserved the Book of Enoch, we would not have it to this day. Because it was clearly expunged

from the scriptoriums of the Middle East and the West. There was controversy, a lot of controversy in the early church age over the Book of Enoch. Some of the early church fathers wanted to incorporate it into the canon. So, there was a debate, an ongoing debate that what what cannot be denied is that the Book of Enoch was is that the early church was conversant with what we call First Enoch today. there was clearly a different manuscript in circulation because some of the early church fathers cite the Book of Enoch.

And they're citing portions of of of the Book of Enoch, which we don't have today >> we call First Enoch. But, then they also cite portions which we do. some of these early church fathers reference the Book of Enoch as In fact, in the fourth around the fourth century AD, the Tewahedo Orthodox Christians and the Beta Israel Jew Jewish community in Ethiopia incorporated the Book of Enoch into their canon.

That's why they preserved it. So, to this day, if you visit Ethiopia and you visit a synagogue or you visit an Orthodox church, among the scriptures that we have in in in our canon in the West, you'll find the the Book of Enoch and and some other apocryphal works as They revered the Book of Enoch and so they preserved it. So, um but as I said, the early church was undoubtedly undoubtedly conversant

with portions of what we call today First Enoch. And and what I was going to say before was you have the Book of Enoch attested in the Old and New Testament. And when you read the parables, the Oracles of Enoch, which are primarily um prophecies pertaining to the Messiah, to the Christ, again fulfilled in Jesus of Nazareth. You realize that the writers of the New Testament derived much of their

eschatology and Christology, their theology regarding the Messiah, directly from the Oracles of Enoch. And in fact, there are citations throughout the New Testament that are not found in the Old Testament. References, indirect references, that are only to be found in the Book of So, um it's So, scholars will say, you know, it's divided. The scholarly community has lots of different

in opinions there in regard to the Book of Enoch. They all will concede that that the earliest portions of Enoch are were were compiled around 300 BC. Some scholars will say that the book that the parables, again containing those Messianic were compiled some sometime around 100 AD. Um there's a lot of debate about that, but because precisely because it's apparent that the authors of the New Testament are are deriving so much

of their theology from the Parables of Enoch. Um and so it's it's it's hard for some scholars to to believe that these that these prophecies, which are so astonishingly uh fulfilled, clearly fulfilled as I keep saying in Jesus of Nazareth, that those could have been written before the advent of Christ. I believe they were. I believe that the Oracles of Enoch ancient, that that First Enoch,

um that the earliest portions of First namely the Book of the Watchers and the Oracles of were written by his hand. That's what Or some version of them, you know, carried through the flood in the form of oral tradition at the very least and then someone later compiled them. Um, so those are uh Fascinating. >> some of the contentions. And I should mention that there is a one of the primary contentions against the Book of um, in the Christian community is

Book of Enoch from the Ge'ez, by the way. That So, I I guess I should back up. So, in 1776, James Bruce of Kinnaird, who by the way was a collateral relative of of Robert the Bruce, Mhm. uh the famous Scott, right? Who who who freed the the Scots, Mhm. um, from the English. James Bruce of Kinnaird also happened to be a Freemason, of one of the most influential and oldest in Scotland. That's right. Number

>> Um, that that that meets this day in the historic Chapel of St. John. He went on this very daring mission to Ethiopia. And it was it was daring because you'll recall back at that time, the 1700s, late 1700s, mid to late there was there was the the the scourge of the Bar- Barbary pirates in the And they were just taking they were taking a lot of Europeans

captive and enslaving them. It was just that enslavement was awful. I mean, most of the men, you know, were castrated and then relegated to live out the rest of their lives in the What do you call it? The the belly of the ships. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Whatever that's called, um, where they would be chained to the to the rows uh to the oars and they would have to basically just row for the rest of their lives in absolute misery. So that that So J- So uh James Bruce

sailed into this very dangerous situation. He made it through. And his mission was to try and find the source of the Blue Nile ostensibly. I think he had a different mission Probably in my very likely my estimation was sent by the lodge. James Bruce of Kinnaird was brilliant and he was also unusually tall. He was like 6'6" if I remember. He was very very tall. Um very brilliant man. And he went to Ethiopia, made it to Ethiopia. He did find the source of the

Blue Nile. And while he was in Ethiopia, he also discovered, and maybe this was his mission, three three manuscripts of or he procured three manuscripts of the Book of Enoch, what we call today First Enoch, which as I said earlier had been preserved by the Ethiopians. And they were written in the liturgical language of Ethiopia, which is called Ge'ez or Geez, depending on how you pronounce it.

by the way, I should as an insert here, I think his primary mission was to find or to seek out the Ark of the Covenant. I think that was his primary mission. And uh Graham Hancock wrote a really really uh good book called The Sign and the where he talks about the the the Ark of the Covenant being probably concealed in Ethiopia. In Axum, right? That's right. In Axum at the Church of St. Mary, I believe. really great well-written book. And um It could still could still be there to

this day. To this day, yeah. The late Chuck Missler um believed that the that the Ark of the Covenant Covenant was in fact an Ethiopian Axum as well. Wow. So, um I tend to think that's that's there's there's a very strong indication that that that that that is in fact where it But James Bruce, he didn't find the Ark, but he did come back to Europe with three copies of uh of the Book of Enoch written in Ge'ez. And he gave one to the to the King of France. He he entrusted one to the

Bodleian Library at Oxford. And then the and then the the final copy he took back with himself to Scotland. Probably I would guess he entrusted it to the Uh to the Freemasonic lodge in which he was inducted. And so, the problem was that it was written in And hardly anybody read Ge'ez, but in the early 1900s, R. H. Charles, the Anglican scholar R. H. Charles,

uh translated the Book of Enoch written in Ge'ez First Enoch into English, and he created the There was a previous uh translation, I believe, by a gentleman named Lawrence, uh but but it was it was it had some problems. So, R. H. Charles translated that he he created a definitive translation of the Book of Enoch, which is what most of us read today, which is what my Book of Enoch is a a translation from R. H. Charles. And the reason why I'm going through all of this is because going back to the one of the primary contentions today

that you'll find in the Christian community against the authenticity of the Book of Enoch is found I believe it's in verse uh 71 or chapter 71 of First Enoch. It's at the end of the parables in which in in the parables, Enoch is He's he's dreaming and he he's being escorted through the heavens by an angel. And he's being shown basically what he's what what what is being revealed to Enoch is the gospel of

that is unfolded in the New Testament. Messianic content, right? So, he sees the Son of Man again, the Son of Man, proper title walking with the Head of Days, very reminiscent of the Daniel's vision of the one like the Son of Man. And Enoch sees the Son of Man and he learns about him from the angel that that this that this Son of Man was hidden from the from from the foundation of the world and that and that he would be a staff to the righteous on which they would stay

themselves. That in his name they would be saved. I mean, these are doctrines of the New Testament that appear in the Book of Enoch in the Oracles of Enoch and all kinds of Messianic content prophetic content. And in fact, Enoch was told that this Son of Man would be the great judge of the earth, that he would return at the end of the age to judge the world, the living and the And so many other principles that that become foundational

to the doctrines of the writers of the New Testament. And so, when you get to the end of the Parables, as I say, I think it's in chapter 71, in the Geez, there's a there's a verse that says the angels So, Enoch's having one of these Messianic visions in a And the the angel is showing him the Son of Man and and telling him about And in the Geez, the angel says, "You, oh Enoch,

are that Son of Man." And then it proceeds The angel proceeds to add some more prophetic color to that statement. And so, scholars say, The the the Messianic content in the Parables is referring to Enoch, not to Christ." And so, they crumple it up and throw it in the garbage. And I I actually think that that's absurd because of two reasons. Number because it's clear that Enoch is not the

son of man. That Enoch is having a vision of the Messiah. Of the son of God who would come into the world and who ultimately would be the judge of the world at the end of the age. And it was not himself. He's not having a vision of Clearly, this So the context is extremely important. And then R. H. Charles recognized that this must have been a mistranslation from the Ge'ez because the Book of Enoch was not originally written in Ge'ez.

Uh most scholars believe there's either an Aramaic original or a or a or a Hebrew original, right? And certainly it was translated into Greek cuz we have Greek fragments from from various places. In fact, the Book of Enoch, by the way, was found among the Dead Sea Scrolls. Greek fragments of And it confirms the the the Ge'ez translation. It It comports. So, so R. H. Charles, being the excellent scholar that he was, recognized that based on the context of all the Messianic content, the visions of the

son of man, that clearly this is a mistranslation. So he corrected it. He put a footnote. He corrected it in his version. Instead of it saying, "You, oh Enoch," he he renders it, "This is that son of man." And then it proceeds to recognize that son of man in regard to the to the prophecies that And that is the correct translation. And so that's a lot of people who are uh that's where a lot of the controversy comes from. So a lot of these people out there who want to discredit the Book of

Enoch, they use that verse >> Yeah. to just completely trash the whole thing, which I think is is misguided. So that's well said. I think it's also that Enoch is sort of an offshoot of the Old Testament. Is that right? So, it was This was pre-Christ that it was likely written in your estimation? >> the the earliest portions of Enoch the Book of the Watchers the earliest portion of Enoch, the Book of the Watchers, definitely written long before Christ, at least 300 years before >> So, sort of predictive of Christ, too,

if it's talking about the Son of Man? >> the the the Well, yes, because within the uh the the Book of the Watchers, again, the first section, the oldest section of the Book of Enoch there is Messianic content there as well. In fact, this is part of the that was copied and pasted in the Book of Jude in the New Testament. Was Was regarding the the the judgment of the of the ungodly. And And who's the judge? Well, the Son of Man is the judge. He will be the

judge of the ungodly at the end of the Um so, yes, the Book of the Watchers does contain Messianic content, but the bulk of the Messianic content is in the next section which is the Book of Parables. That's the one where scholars are divided. Some believe it's very old. Some believe it was written somewhere around 1 100 AD. Again, because it's so foundational to the doctrines of the New Testament as

uh as articulated by the apostles of Christ. Do you think Jesus and the disciples, specifically the disciples that wrote the canonical books, were aware of the Book of Enoch? >> 100%. Yes. So, I would argue that were we to go back to the first century AD, when Jesus of Nazareth was walking through Judea were we to enter a synagogue we would find some representation in their scriptorium, we would find some representation, some scroll

that was similar to what we call today First Enoch. I believe they considered it to be scripture. I mean, Jude would not copy and paste directly from the Book of the Watchers first in First Enoch. He wouldn't copy and paste it and he if it weren't considered scripture specifically because he's referencing it Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied pasted it right there. Where does that come from? It comes from First Enoch, the Book of the Watchers.

And that should be all the evidence that people need to conclude that some portions of the Book of Enoch were considered scripture by the Jews during the time of Christ. >> Also, where were the Dead Sea Scrolls found? They were >> Those were found in the caves of Qumran in 1948. >> And so you have those being found in 1948, you have uh James Bruce going to Ethiopia independently finding a thing. So that seems like really interesting as a data point, too. Very interesting timing that the Book of Enoch disappears for hundreds of years and then suddenly

in our time. Well, a a burning question I have and I'm sure the audience has is why is the Book of Enoch showing up in Ethiopia and then why is the Ark of the Covenant possibly showing up in >> Well, well, the Book of Enoch is in Ethiopia because it was preserved by the Beta Israel Jews and the Tewahedo Orthodox Christians in the 4th century. It was expunged, as I said earlier, from the scriptoriums of of of the Middle East and Europe. Uh and I think that was done intentionally. so many other ancient documents,

especially uh apocryphal apocryphal manuscripts, were preserved by the But the Book of Enoch was was extirpated. Why? I think part of the reason is because there was there was so much controversy. As I said earlier, there's no question that the early church was conversant with Enoch. So I think what happened, this was just a speculation on my part but I think what happened was there was so much controversy about around the book of Enoch that it was ultimately rejected in the canon.

and in order to quell that controversy it was it was expunged. From the world basically from the scriptoriums. Just Now does that mean that somebody went around confiscating the copies and burning them? I don't know that it was that that that happened. But if there's no reason why copies of the book of Enoch should not have been preserved by the church. Is there some sort of control mandate or something? If you think of the Council of Nicaea and you know creating the modern canon Yeah, I

think so. Is there a reason to specifically get rid of the book of Enoch because it's sort of subversive or irreverent in some way? >> Yes, because the prevailing view became especially because of um Augustine or Augustine I always forget how to pronounce his name. Uh the saint. Because he was a he was a proponent he was a he was a proponent of what's called um the non-supernatural view of Genesis 6. The supernatural view of Genesis 6 is

that that the sons of God were the angels of heaven. Clearly this is the case because in the Septuagint which is a Greek translation of the of the Old Testament which was in circulation during the time of Christ and and certainly during the early church. Um this is the the this was the manuscript that um the non-Jewish converts were reading was the Septuagint of the Old Testament right? So it's a it's a translation of the Tanakh the Hebrew Old Testament into And in the Septuagint when you read Genesis 6

it doesn't say the sons of God it says the angels of God. So that's definitive. These are not human beings. These are celestial beings and this was the prevailing view. probably the 2nd century AD when the Jews the Jewish community rending rendering of that of that verse. And and what they did was

they said that that the sons of God in Genesis 6 that that copulated with the daughters of Adam that these were noble men from the line of Seth. And or the Sethites is what they call this called the Sethite theory. And these were not heavenly beings. These were just men. And the church adopted that position. They followed suit and they adopted that primarily because of St. Augustine.

And and so that became the prevailing And it is the prevailing view to this day. Although the tides are turning. More and more people are realizing that that's preposterous. Based on the Based on the By the way, the story of Enoch uh the the Enochian tale is attested not just in Enoch but in several Dead Sea scroll including the Book of Giants uh the Book of Jubilees, the Genesis Apocryphon, and others. All all of these and and there's no question

that um that the supernatural view of Genesis 6 was the prevailing view during the Second Temple period. No question >> And then you combine that with the Zep Tepe, with the Greek gods, with like all of these other kind of myths across disparate cultures all involving sort of demigod like little g gods and then some sort of flood and it's like okay this maybe we should stop treating this just as myth and start treating it as history. Plato and Solon and all you

know uh >> you you it's just a, you know, kind of ubiquitous, you know? The difference is, this is kind of what makes the Hebrew account unique. The difference is those other cultures, they viewed the antediluvian world through a lot of a laudatory prism. In other words, they viewed it as this wonderful time of peace and prosperity, of the sharing of knowledge from the gods to mankind. That the gods, as I said earlier, were establishing

the the the foundations of civilization, of learning, of science, were imparting them to mankind. And that the world that existed in the antediluvian world was in every way vastly superior to to their own civilizations, to their post-flood, post-cataclysmic Post-cataclysmic civilizations. That they they when they look back into the past, very this is antithetical to the way we look back into the past. So, when we, as moderns, and we look back into the past, we see this, you know, the timeline of history,

right? We are in our minds we're the pinnacle of civilization right now. We're the pinnacle of learning, scientific learning, we're the smartest human beings ever to exist on planet Earth. Everybody that preceded preceded us was was inferior to us intellectually speaking. And and there's this this gradual retrograde of civilization as you go backwards on the timeline of history. So, you start from superior man, and then you you you progress backwards through history, and people are getting dumber and dumber and dumber

their antecedents that existed in the world before the cataclysm. They when they went backward in time it wasn't a decrease in the knowledge and sophistication of of civilization but the the civilizations that preceded them in the antediluvian world were vastly superior to them. Speaking of which, you said something amazing earlier. You said you think that that time period, those sort of demigod creatures used advanced aerospace

vehicles. And you know, I think of the Vimanas as kind of the you know, proverbial example of this. Do you have a Is there any other evidence that they actually had kind of technological, you know, aerial vehicles? Obviously, we have to go to texts and You have to go to texts. Yeah, so I don't know of any archaeological evidence. Sure. Of course. You have anecdotal You have accounts like Bob Lazar Yeah, yeah, >> who said that you know, among the craft that he saw in the hangars at the S4 facility he was told that one of them had been retrieved from an archaeological site.

>> That's right. >> very ancient. Not the one he worked on, not the sports model. But but a a different one had been allegedly He and he didn't know if this was true or not, but allegedly it had been recovered from an ancient burial site, an ancient an archaeological dig. So yeah, I I I don't have any problem with that. Um you know, when you when you look back into the again, this is a period of time that the ancients described as the golden age. And what I was illustrating earlier was that to in in in in the mind of of of the pagan cultures, this this was the pinnacle of

of mankind, of civilization, and it was a time of peace and prosperity. But from the Hebraic per- perception, it it was this was This was a dystopian nightmare. This was a time of great oppression, the empire of the gods, essentially the watchers were governing the the earth by proxy behind the thrones of their hybrid giant offspring who were devouring mankind, who were oppressing mankind. It was a time of unparalleled bloodshed and sorcery and and all manner

of transgression against the king of heaven. That's the difference. >> Mhm. So, from the from the pagan these the the These were the the gods were like our Promethean benefactors. They stole fire from the gods and and gave it to mankind. But, from the Hebraic perspective, these watchers were evil. They were uh These were malevolent beings and and their the their intention was to deceive mankind and that mankind was corrupted by the knowledge that was given to them, the

forbidden secrets as the Book of Enoch has it. And that all of this activity led to the flood, to the destruction of the world. So, that's the That's That's a very different view of the antediluvian age >> Yes. from the Hebraic perspective. What value does this book or I'll put it Do you think this book is not just this kind of, you know, past thing about, you know, kind of metaphysics pre, you know, uh uh flood. And do you think it holds a

relevance today? Where are Where are the watchers today? Yes, it does. So, to your first question, according to the Book of Enoch and the Bible and the New Testament, according to Peter, according to Jude, the watchers are currently chained up in Peter calls it Tartarus, >> Mhm. the abyss, Mhm. in in in the gloomy And this is directly from the Book of Enoch. So, when the angels were to bind the watchers, remember the watchers were first forced to watch the destruction of the beloved sons in this

fratricidal civil war, which again I think was technological. And and then they were they were they were imprisoned. They were incarcerated. And they're still incarcerated to this And according to the Book of Enoch, they're going to be incarcerated until the end of the age, when the age is fully consummated. That's what the Book of Enoch says. And until the day of judgment. So, until the very end. Now, there's some uh um biblical commentators,

some colleagues of mine, who believe that the watchers are going to be released at the end of the age, and that they're going to create a lot of havoc that you see unfolding on the earth in the Book of Revelation. I don't know. I personally think that the Book of Enoch is pretty explicit that the watchers are going to be chained until the day of judgment, which would mean all the way to the very end when when the when the great judge returns to the earth. By the way, I should probably um This is a little bit of a digression, but here's another um another attestation of the Book of

Enoch in the New Testament. Jesus was in in the land of Gadara with his disciples, and and and he was approached by a man that that a man who the Bible describes or or two men, depending on which gospel you're who's who's described as the Gadarene because he was full of a legion of demons. You'll recall this story. So, Jesus disembarks on the shore of Gadara, this demon-possessed man, who has a legion of demons inside of

him, comes running up to Jesus and throws himself at his feet. he declares, "We know who you are, you son of God." And then he says, "Why have you come to torment us before the appointed time?" And that always puzzled me when I was, you know, growing up as a teenager reading that. What do you mean before the appointed time? What does that mean? They recognized that Jesus was that son of man from the Oracles of Enoch, the son of God.

And that there was an appointed time of judgment for them. So, why were they freaking out? Because they recognized two things. They recognized that Jesus was the great judge. He was the judge who was going to judge them at the appointed time. And the second thing they recognized what it wasn't time yet. But here's the judge. What are you doing here? It's not time yet. You're you're you're early. Now, where does that come from? Doesn't come from the Old Testament. It comes from the Book of Enoch.

>> Right. Because um when the giant when the giants destroy themselves in this fratricidal war, they're cursed. God puts a curse on them. Because they're not fully of their of their celestial fathers, the watchers, and they're not fully of their human So, they're they're unsanctioned sentient beings. And so, they're cursed to when they die and their spirits depart from their bodies, their spirits are now going to be forced to wander the

earth as disembodied vagabond wraiths. Mhm. But the curse is this. They're going to have all of the desires of the flesh. They're going to be hungry, thirsty, presumably have all of the sexual impulses of the flesh, but without corporeal bodies through which to satiate these desires, to satisfy them. That's the curse. And you'll probably recall that this was the Mayan curse in the curse of the Mayan gold in Pirates of the Caribbean. >> Yeah. That's the Nephilim That's the

Nephilimic curse in the Pirates of the Caribbean. Barbosa and his crew they were deathless, basically. They couldn't die, but neither could they enjoy anything while they were alive perpetually. They remember Barbosa wanted to bite into the apple and it was revealed, I forget in the story, when I think on a full moon or whatever, that they were like these And they couldn't enjoy anything. And so they desperately wanted to break the curse. That was the premise of the story. And that's exactly the situation

of the spirits of dead giants. And this is where you get the origin of >> Mhm. in the New Testament. And in the Old Testament, demons, according to ancient Hebrew cosmology, are the disembodied spirits of dead giants that persist in the world as evil >> like the definition. >> That's the definition. And in the book of Enoch, the judgment that comes that comes against the giants is you will be called evil spirits in the earth or unclean spirits in the earth.

And you will wander the earth. You'll have all of the you you'll be hungry, you'll be thirsty, but you won't be able to satisfy your your your desires of your flesh cuz you won't have any flesh. And so what are these beings do? What do these disembodied spirits do? They seek to inhabit human flesh. They possess human beings in order to attempt to satiate these desires. That's why they inhabit the body. So fast forward to the New And you have Jesus of Nazareth encountering, and his disciples encountering people who are demon-possessed. And they recognize who

he is. And he tells them to be quiet on a couple of occasions cuz they say, "We know who you are, you son of God." Right? And so now fast forwarding to the the Gadarene Demoniac who who's inhabited by a legion of demons. Oh, and I I actually I actually skipped the most imperative point here. Going back to the book of Enoch, part of the curse was this was going to be your lot. This was going to be your curse to the spirits of the dead giants the great judge appears

Mhm. to judge the living and the dead until the day of judgment. And then they will be judged with And cast into the into the uh lake of fire. And so the the the legion of demons recognizes that Jesus is the great judge from the Oracles of Enoch. And and and as I said before knows that the time is not yet come for their final

That's right. >> and saying, you know, read the Book of Enoch. That somehow is important for this whole story. Like imagine a world in which if Enoch was left in the Bible and people are like, wait, what happened? Okay, so if you read it, it talks about the fall of angels um thus creating really the precursor of civilization that led to the first Um I think that when you even go into potentially the technology that was given to mankind by these angels, it talks about the hidden um beliefs and

and theories in astronomy etc. Metal workings, all of it. If you have this information pertaining to UAPs, whatever might they they might be the origins I mean, if you have a understanding of what Enoch was talking about, kind of makes sense. So what does this clearly, you know, not so apocryphal, actually probably core text in the Book of Enoch and the Nephilim and the watchers, What does that have to do with modern kind of alien UFO disclosure? Well,

what you have in the book of Enoch and in Genesis 6 are extraterrestrial beings descending to the earth. >> And why do you think that? Well, because they are by nature extraterrestrial. This is a This is one of the things that I I I talked about in my book Birthright. So, I think the word extraterrestrial is a very uh useful word. It's a very useful term. Because extraterrestrial simply means a being whose provenance is not planet Earth. Mhm. So, a being whose origin

whose origin is not the Earth. That's an extra-terrestrial. Of course, we're contextualizing this term within the context of sentient beings. I'm not talking about amoebas here or something like that or bacteria. Although, those would also be considered extraterrestrial extraterrestrial bacteria. Should we find bacteria on Mars, those would be defined as extraterrestrial bacteria, right? Because they're not from the Earth. Even if they're very similar to bacteria on Earth. Well, they're extraterrestrial cuz they're not from the Earth.

So, it's a very accurate term. Very useful term. Now, um opponents of mine will say, "Wait, that's not a biblical term." Well, I would like to highlight that neither is the term fallen angels a biblical term. >> And a lot of people think it is. It's not. You'll never You will not find fallen angels in the Bible. Doesn't exist. Now, the concept is biblical. The concept of a {quote} fallen angel is very biblical. These fallen angel are defected sons of God. They are

apostate sons of God. They're angelic beings who defected from the kingdom and now are in opposition to We all understand that. That's what fallen angel means. In the same way, the word extraterrestrial doesn't show up in the biblical text or extra-biblical text. They didn't use that terminology back then. But the concept is accurate, is biblically accurate. In that, you have beings who are clearly not from planet Earth, whose provenance is not planet Earth,

and in and indeed whose origin is preexistent to mankind. They preexist This is clear, especially in the book of Job, where we read that the morning stars sang together, and the sons of God shouted for joy as the foundations of the Earth were being laid, or depending on how you view that, as the Earth was being previous to the creation of mankind. So here you have sentient extraterrestrial beings. By definition,

there's there they're not on the Earth. They're observing the creation or the reformation of the Earth, depending on your theological worldview, and they are celebrating it. They're shouting for joy. And the designation morning star and sons of God, morning stars and sons of God, is very important because morning stars the the Bible uses the stars as a metaphor for angelic beings, for celestial beings. So a morning star, what that designates

are beings who were created early on, who who who are preexistent. They you know, they're they're the first beings to appear. In other words, the stars you see in the morning, they're it's like those are the the the the morning stars. These are the beings who appear at the at the beginning of creation, the first sentient beings. So they're I think they're very old, and and furthermore they're called sons of which is very important because that's a designation that's a fam- familial

These aren't just whatever sentient beings, these are sons of God. These are members of the family. This becomes very important in the biblical text and this is something that I articulate in is is that Adam was created to be a son of God using that same familial language. Um and that we through Christ become the sons of God according to Jesus of

Nazareth being by the way sons of the resurrection. So so this is a there's a family dynamic The Bible uses these familial terms because there's a family. There's a divine family. And when you when you read the genealogy of Jesus of Nazareth you know, it traces Jesus through Joseph or through Mary depending on which genealogy you're reading back through David back through Abraham back into the pre-flood world

through Enoch and all the way back to And when you get to Adam it says Adam the son of So what the Bible is signaling here is that Adam the human species was originally created designed intended to be a member of the divine family. And so this ties into the gospel of Christ later on because you you you understand when Jesus shows up on the

a bit of theology here. When when Jesus shows up on the scene he makes it abundantly clear that his is to is to bring back the prodigal sons back into the family of God. That he gives us power to become the sons of God. So in other words, that's that's really the message of the gospel that that you were once members of this family. You were once members of the divine family in Adam, and that was the intention. Mankind was in my estimation

created for two purposes. Number one, to commune with the creator, with the maker, and with the other with his with who I describe in Birthright as his elder siblings, these other sentient beings, the other sons of God who preexist mankind, to to fellowship in the family of God. That's the primary purpose. And then secondarily to govern the earth, to govern planet Earth. And these these these theological threads become very very important when you get to the

the the discussions that are currently happening in about extraterrestrials and how we ought to view that if coming from a a Christian perspective at least. And so the whole point of the gospel is to return the sons and daughters back to the family of God, illustrated by the way in the in the parable of the prodigal son. So, you have these sons of God who preexist mankind. They're not clearly they're not human and they're not from planet Earth. They are therefore by definition

The the celestial beings, they're extraterrestrial. Now, you can quibble over whether or not they come from a a literal extraterrestrial world, like a a different planet in the universe, or they come from some kind of a spiritual world, like a a different I guess dimension, or you could just say they're they're interdimensional beings that come from a different dimension. It doesn't matter which of these you choose, you're still talking about beings whose origin, whose provenance is not planet Earth. They are

unequivocally extraterrestrial. So, these these this describes the beings who descended in the days of Jared, according to the book of Enoch in Genesis 6. These beings came from some extraterrestrial realm. Again, whether you think it's a interdimensional realm like Anna Pauline Luna, whatever. It doesn't really matter. >> And this lines up, by the way, with Sumerian myth. You have the Anunnaki. Definitely. Lines up with Greek myths where you have these Titans and they're

the sons of God. And you know, I'm hearing about the book of Enoch and it sounds a lot like Prometheus, by the way, where you have this sort of rebel faction of Titans who try to give mankind sacred knowledge and that are, you know, in this case, I think he's chained up to a rock and uh you know, vulture has to >> That's right. picks at his liver like >> Yeah. So, it's this is an archetypal myth that cuts across a lot of regions and cultures. >> It's universal. Yeah. >> It's universal. The the universal

testimony of our of our antecedents is that there was an age previous to a great flood or a great in which the gods were dwelling on Earth among men imparting their knowledge, establishing civilization, the benchmark, the trademarks of And that those beings came from somewhere. Mhm. And specifically this is, by the way, what the late uh

it was basically out of print for a long time. There's there was a couple places you could find it, but it was extremely That book was That book before Flynn's daughter re- printed it, it was going for two and three thousand >> Wow. Online. Um and then she reprinted it. Now you can get it for like 25 bucks on Amazon. But Flynn Flynn um really unpacks a lot of this in that book. And it really that provided sort of the substrate for my book Birthright. And and what Flynn proves, I would say definitively, Mhm. is that not only did

the ancients believe that the gods to the earth in the antediluvian world in in the during the golden age, but that they came from somewhere very They came from a planet in our solar system. Which planet? Well, uh there's it's which planets. Primarily, there's there's a planet that that Flynn talks about, which is which is, you know, sort of in in in in popular culture, it's referred to as Krypton. That's where you get the the uh Superman

um mythology from. Um but the ancients also had a Krypton in mind, a destroyed planet, a destroyed realm from which the gods descended, or destroyed destroyed realms, uh more And one of these planets Flynn believed, and I and I believe this as well, I write it in Birthright, is actually named in the biblical text, cryptically. Huh. It's called Rahab. Wow. And that this planet there was this there was this conflict that erupted in

the cosmos long before the creation of mankind. Because in Flynn's view, and I completely concur, our solar system was inhabited by a non-human extraterrestrial race of angelic beings. So Flynn viewed this very much not as sort of like an interdimensional thing, but literally the planets were inhabited. That's why on the cover of uh that book there you have the ruined the ruined structures on Mars. And I believe, of course, most of us are

Ruins of an ancient advanced civilization. Of course, you have the remote viewer Mc- McMonagle. >> Yeah, uh, Joe McMonagle. McMonagle, who recently, uh, I believe it was on Sean Ryan's show, um, He was tasked by the CIA to remote view Mars a million years ago and described giant beings. >> That's right. Uh, like >> Yeah. And ruins, 8 to 12 ft tall beings, and pyramid structures. By the way, we I think on Cydonia you do have some pyramid-like structures. >> the D and M pyramid, which was a mag-

which was a a, uh, massive, massive pyramid. It's remarkable. >> And then you also have this guy >> Allegedly. Allegedly. You have this guy John Brandenburg as well, who's a PhD, um, physics, who worked at Lawrence Livermore and Sandia, and he believes that argon 40 and xenon 129 exist exist in excess of what you would ever see just based on kind of natural decay, and this is proof of a nuclear cataclysm that occurred on Mars. And apparently, he got called by Carl Sagan when he

I personally I have no proof of this, okay? I'm just I'm spitballing, but I personally think that that the images from the first mission of the surface of Mars were correct, were accurate, and that NASA um released those second higher-resolution images to sort of quell the the firestorm that had erupted. And and I I I am extremely that there are ruins that dwarf anything on planet Earth.

The ruins of an ancient civilization on the planet Mars, specifically in the region of Cydonia. And this what's so fascinating about this is that the ancients believed that the gods descended from Mars and from this other planet that was destroyed. It's sort of And this is again, sounds very complex, it is, and Flynn lays it out. I mean, you read Cydonia and it's like to me, there's no question that the ancients believe that the gods descended uh from Mars and and and from Rahab. And I And as I said before, I believe that

Rahab that that the the destruction of Rahab, which is always associated with the wrath of God, this this pre-Adamic conflict that erupted in our solar system, and and and this this faction this defected faction of angelic beings who went to war with the king of heaven. And uh and it's associated with the dragon, and the dragon becomes a moniker for Satan in the Bible. Which neither dragon nor Satan are his

actual names, nor Lucifer, by the way. That's a a misnomer from the from the Vulgate, from Jerome's Vulgate. Um, but there's this character in the New Testament in the in the Old and New Testament of the Bible who's never actually named. He's much like Voldemort from the Harry Potter series. It's It's he who who should not be named, right? He's never actually named. But he's he's he is the the the great uh he's he's the great opponent of the king of heaven and of the purposes of God.

And and one of his I think one of his one of his primary monikers is the dragon or the serpent. And so the destruction of Rahab and and I Flynn goes through this in Sidonia, I go through this in Birthright. There are uh multiple verses in the Old Testament that seem to suggest that God shattered a planet that he shattered Rahab like a vessel of clay. He pierced the dragon and shattered Rahab.

>> Are there any of those verses that come to mind? And then what's the evidence that it's Mars >> Well, well, the shat- the shattered planet isn't Mars. The shattered planet is Rahab. So So the idea is that the the the asteroid field that the asteroid belt uh Mars and Jupiter, that that is the residue of a planet that exploded. And the contention the popular contention is that there's not enough debris. It can't be a planet. There's not enough

debris. But recent papers have been published, peer-reviewed papers. I read a couple of them. One at least in which a a very good case is made and I wish I could cite the paper here, but I I can't. I don't remember what it is. >> We'll pull it up. Um that the there is enough debris because much of the debris, if a planet exploded, much of the physical debris would have A been vaporized and B shot off into space. So you would have a planet explode, much of the debris is just getting jettisoned into deep space and only a very small

fraction of it should be should would get caught up in the gravitational pull of the sun and would be and would form ultimately the um uh the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter. Now, I'm not an astrophysicist, okay? So, I'm way out of my depth talking about this kind of stuff, but the ancients believe you can track it that there was a planet that was And and this is part one of the places that the gods came from. Now, it connects to Mars. Because Mars was destroyed partly

because of the in the in the wake of the destruction of this planet, which again, I also believe uh is is attested in the biblical narrative. There's a a few verses and I I don't I mean, I have them in my book Birthright um the the exact verses, but there are some verses in the Psalms and which position the Earth as a spectator to this cosmic destruction that causes the mountains to melt like wax. And so, you can imagine if there was a an a massive planet between Mars and

Assuming that the planets today are in their the same orbits as they used to be because there's a possibility that such an explosion could have pushed, you know, could have moved things around, that planet implodes. I mean, we can't even imagine the destructive force that that would have unleashed. I mean, there's no explosion except for like a supernova that we can think of that that that that would be that powerful. But when that planet exploded, it rained down fire. Shards of Rahab bombarded the surface of Mars, bombarded

the surfaces of the other planets in the solar system, bombarded the surface of the Earth, and abs- absolutely reduced everything to rubble. Evicerated whatever civilizations were inhabiting those planets. And um so, but it's but also previous to the destruction of Rahab, uh I believe again, in the biblical narrative, you can you can trace the thread of a cosmic pre-adamic war that erupted in the heavens among this angelic civilization and possibly other things as well.

And it was between what the Bible describes as the king the king of heaven who vanquished the dragon who pierced the dragon who crushed the dragon's head and shattered Rahab like a like a vessel of clay and that in that process in this conflict the civilization on Mars was In other words, they were first they were first engaged in this conflict technological conflict with again who the Bible describes as

the king of heaven who is revealed to be the son of God kinetic war and then after that, you know, or in the midst of that conflict Rahab explodes. God destroys it and then that's like that's the final blow to this rebel faction. So this would be the idea here a a rebellious faction of quote unquote fallen angels are going to war with the king of heaven kinetic war in the cosmos indeed in our solar system

before the creation of Adam. Wow. >> So this is a pre-adamic race of intelligent beings clearly extraterrestrial especially if their habitation is on Mars and Rahab and elsewhere in the cosmos which I believe it was. And I don't think it's even controversial on kind of conventional astronomical circles to say that Mars had a biosphere at one point. I mean there are water caverns all throughout Mars. I believe also in the 90s there was ALH84001 meteor that was found that Bill Clinton

made a speech on and said they found, you know, polycyclic hydrocarbons or whatever in the meteor. And I think they sort of backtracked that like they backtracked on the you know the Viking missions. By the way, I've heard that the JPL guy who was in charge of the Viking missions also swears by there being sort of you know evidence of life on Mars or something in his secret life. Yeah. So, Yeah. uh it's all very >> What's even more interesting is that Elon Musk is determined

to put men on Mars. >> Occupy Mars. And and what what people don't realize again I'm going to reference Sidonia. This is what what um Flynn traces in his book is that the the the objective to put a man on Mars Yep. is an ancient aspiration. Mhm. It is in fact one of the primary objectives of the mystery schools. Really? Yes, to make contact with this the to to recover the lost knowledge of the gods on Mars.

>> On Mars specifically. >> Like mystery schools like the Brotherhood of the Serpent and the Freemasons and >> Mystery schools going all the way back I believe they go back to Cain on obviously that's just a a conjecture of mine. But certainly unequivocally Mhm. the mystery schools it are are pro are perpetuated primarily through the And the Phoenicians really are the you might

aside from antediluvian mystery schools if they existed the Phoenicians are certainly the primary post-diluvian keepers of knowledge from the antediluvian world. I mean the Phoenicians were the great masons of the ancient world and navigators. Sea fairing people. Um they circumnavigated Africa for sure. I think they crossed the Atlantic. I think they were mining copper Wow. in the Great Lakes. I know that's very controversial. I think that the reason why you find red-haired giants >> Yeah. the remains of red-haired giants

in the mounds of America back in the the uh 18 and early 1900s is because they came over Yeah. the sea with the Phoenicians. The Phoenicians had a cult of giant worship. Wow. All kind of evidence of giants uh among the Um and the Phoenicians are like they were essentially a secret society. Wow, >> And they and I mean who did Solomon contract with to build the temple? >> The Phoenicians. Hiram of Tyre. Mhm. And Hiram Abiff Mhm. his artificer. The

Hiram of Tyre the king and Hiram Abiff his his premier artificer. Um that's who built the temple. Uh Solomon's Temple. They were they were the master masons. They built the fleets for Egypt for ancient Egypt. And so and the mystery schools have this aspiration cuz I think of the Temple of Solomon as part of the mystery school aspiration and interest as well. >> Um but they they have this sort of three-line around >> getting to Mars? I didn't know that. >> Fast. Yes. So the the again one of the

primary aspirations of the mystery schools is to recover the lost knowledge of the gods from Mars. Now is our aspiration is Elon Musk's aspiration to go to Mars associated with this? Um or just or just part of that uh impetus the sort of undercurrent for the mystery schools? Is there a hidden hand Mhm. directing us back to Mars? I would say so. Mhm. And I think when we go there soon probably in our lifetime we are going to

find evidence of an ancient civilization. >> Mhm. Extraterrestrial civilization on Mars. And I have a feeling that it's going to be announced rather soon. Perhaps even by President Trump. That there's microbial life on Mars or was. That we have evidence of my I mean NASA's sort of already beginning to prime that pump. So I think what's going to come first is the announcement that hey there was life on Mars. We have evidence of microbial life on Mars. And that's the preamble. That would be a >> to the big one. little soft disclosure, exactly. Test the waters, see see what

happens there. So, I think Okay, so we have let's establish a baseline. So, we have these watchers that came down, they were They mated with man, they created Nephilim. Um of which we are kind of the descendants. The Nephilim were banished. They were made to be kind of these uh disincarnate kind of wandering spirits, demonic spirits. Yep. Uh and then we have this all this interesting evidence that a lot of this actually holds astronomical weight in the ancient

he's kind of really talks about demons a lot and like angels and demons and fallen angels and I don't quite know what to make of it, so help us make sense of it. >> So, yeah, so um again going back to the book of Enoch and the and the cosmology of the ancient Hebrews. Um in An Apollonius' insistence that, you know, this we can understand the modern phenomenon in light of the book of Enoch. I agree in that

extraterrestrial beings descended to the earth imparted the some of the trademarks of civilization to mankind. Again, I'm coming from the biblical worldview. I would subscribe to the biblical worldview over and against the pagan worldview in that these beings were not the friends of mankind. They were deceitful. They struck a Faustian bargain with mankind. The knowledge that they imparted corrupted Uh and so these beings were in opposition to the king of heaven and that they knew exactly what they

were doing. And by the way, I believe that that's why they that's why giants were produced from their union with with human women. And let me again reiterate that the it's not just the biblical that has giant offspring as the product of the union of the gods and and women. This is the Cyclops, for In Greek mythology, Cyclops were giants. and there's, you know, giants Gilgamesh again, who was part human, part god, right? He was a giant. So, this is kind of a ubiquitous idea. Um

and I think that the fact that these beings were giants is was strategic so that they could dominate the earth, take over, usurp the thrones of men. They you know, from a theological perspective, this we don't have to go down this trail, but from a theological perspective, they were human enough to inherit the birthright of Adam. And the birthright of Adam is dominion of the earth because God gave dominion of the earth to Adam and his offspring And so there was this usurpation that occurred and then there was the creation of what I reference as the empire of the

which could have which could have had a duration of at least a thousand years or Certainly if you reckon the time from from the Septuagint, which the reckoning of the of the the the the time from the descent of the watchers in the days of Jared to the flood of Noah, you know, you have you have two the I'm referencing here the Genesis 5 genealogy in which you have the the pre-flood the patriarchal pre-flood genealogy listed. And in the Masoretic rendering, which is the Bibles that most of us have today,

the Masoretic uh text, um you have uh I forget what the the numbers are, under 1,000 years from from the descent of the watchers in the days of Jared to the flood. But, if you reckon it according to the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Old Testament, it's over 1,000 years. So, at the very least, I think that this activity was going on for over 1,000 years on planet Earth. That means that the gods were dwelling among men, the watchers from the biblical narrative, and copulating with human women, progenerating a race of hybrid giants,

and dominating the Earth for over 1,000 years, minimum. And and building civilizations, spreading out. And I should have said that uh I should have um added earlier that, you know, this general narrative that you find in the Book of Enoch is illustrated in in in in the story of Atlantis, recounted by Plato. And just very quickly, you know, Plato in the in the Timaeus and Critias he has he tells the story of Atlantis. Um he has Solon of Athens visiting the

priests of Sais in Egypt. And and and Solon is told by the priests of Egypt uh by the by these the priests of Sais that the the that the Greeks don't really have any ancient history. I mean, they all of their histories are young. They don't have any traditions or hoary with age. Um and that the Greeks only remember one cataclysm, but that there have been many cataclysms in the past. And then he begins the the priests begin

to account to Solon of Athens the the the legend of Atlantis. That there And it begins the legend of Atlantis is a at the very least, the legend of Atlantis is an is an allegory of the antediluvian world. Because it begins with the gods, the Greek gods, apportioning the world amongst themselves, dividing divvying up the world amongst themselves. And Poseidon, for his lot, he gets the region, the territory of Atlantis. And

what does he do? Well, he builds he he he he you know, he he builds the island and so forth. But he becomes enamored of a human woman named Cleito. And he takes her to wife. And he copulates for with her and she conceives. And she gives birth to five sets of male twins. So, 10 hybrid twins. And those twins become the kings of Atlantis. Uh the kings of Atlantis and

chief among them was Atlas. And other sources, like for example, uh the famous occultist Helena Blavatsky, she designates she she points out and and she's referencing an ancient Indian script. I think it's I think it's pronounced Dzyan, the Book of Dzyan, in the the kings of Atlantis are described as giants, which would be which would be appropriate, you know, for these Greek legends. They would have been considered the offspring of the gods were likely giants, Atlas and so

forth, giant kings. So, you have these demigod kings governing the empire of Atlantis. And and they they they build this magnificent city. And so, in the background, you have Poseidon, the god. In the foreground, you have his hybrid sons who are literally governing his kingdom, his empire. And they go on a warpath. And they become, you know, over time, they become very hostile, antagonistic towards their neighbors. And they

this is, you know, just this is just a summary of the story of Atlantis as told by Plato. And they they start to go to war with their neighbors and they're just steamrolling everybody until they encounter the Athenians. And this is why Solon is This is why the priests are telling Solon, "You don't understand how magnificent your antecedents are." Uh they were the only ones who could withstand who could who could uh um uh who could rival the military prowess of the Atlanteans.

And of course according to the Greek mythology the the kingdom of of Athe- of Athens was was established founded by a god. Mhm. Right? Very much like Poseidon Atlantis. And so you have these two hybrid kingdoms going to war with each This is that fratricidal war, right? And then it's interrupted by a cataclysm. And the cataclysm doesn't just destroy

It's a It's clearly a global cataclysm because the Greeks record a global cataclysm that eviscerated the the the civilizations in the pre-flood world. And this is that cataclysm that that Plato is recounting. It was a It was a great flood. And it destroyed Atlantis in a day and a night and and de- destroyed everybody, right? So now take that story of Atlantis which obviously is the Greek And compare it to what we just talked about in the Book of Enoch. Mhm. It's a one-to-one comparison. It's the same

story. The gods descend to the earth. They apportion the earth amongst themselves. They divide it into what I described as the empire of the gods. They copulate with human women. They pro- generate uh uh demigod kings offspring who become the kings of their respective kingdoms. Then God incites them to to uh fratricidal war with each other. They're They're in midst in the midst of this war and then boom. The flood occurs. The flood ensues. Cuz I think my my biggest question is like you have UFOs back then and you have

sacred knowledge back then. The sacred knowledge gets lost in the flood. And now, you know, circa 2026, you have Trump tweeting about UFOs. We're all talking about all this stuff. Yep. Is this >> And then you have this alleged group of Evangelical Christians who are being talked about all the time now or The Collins Elite. >> Collins Elite, so-called Collins Elite. Yeah, um it's it's all very interesting. Yeah, so do you think the the flying vehicles of today cuz

you're kind of you could be considered a modern ufologist. You you research a lot of these phenomena today. It you know, if the Watchers are chained up somewhere, um but some of that knowledge made its way to mankind. We're What are these aerial vehicles that we're seeing? >> So so that's actually a great point. Um So, these 200 Watchers that descended to the earth within the biblical context, these were a separate group from the other beings, the other angelic beings

who the Bible describes in many ways, but in one passage is the devil and his angels, right? So, the Satan figure. It was here before the Watchers descended to the Satan was here with with his {quote} {unquote} fallen angels. I'm not a big fan of that term, but um the people understand when I use it what I mean. So, these these rebel sons of God, angelic beings, are here on the earth. And they have not been chained up.

They've been here. They were here before Um and this is the remnant of that let's put it in the Star Wars terms, a Rebel Alliance, but except in this case they're the bad guys, who were fighting against the kingdom of heaven that we we talked about earlier when Rahab exploded in the in the the civilization on Mars and all that. They came from there. Mhm. So, we're not even that we're not even referencing the Watchers in that context. The Watchers came afterward. The watchers came in the days descending the days of Jared, so

humankind was already populating the earth. That's when the watchers descended. But but, you know, the dragon, the devil and his angels, Satan, and and and his and his consort, his his cohort, came to the earth or were cast down to the earth a long time ago after that cosmic battle. So, they were here before Adam. They were here before the watchers. They're a separate group. Um these are these are these are

heavenly beings, right? Um probably the the the same kind of beings as the watchers. And by the way, there's a misconception and this really is is propagated in the west and it and this this has to do more with a cultural perception than any sort of a biblical fact is is the idea that that quote-unquote fallen angels are these ugly, grotesque, demonic-looking beings. Like they're, you know, like they look

reptilian or something or they have horns and whatever. There's no indication that that's true That's not a that's certainly not a biblical concept. That's a western traditional concept because we ascribe we we we ascribe their qualities, their the attributes that they're cunning and they're evil. You know, that they're these are malevolent beings and so we portray them traditionally, the church has portrayed them in cultural in culture as these ugly beings, right? Who embody these attributes. But but I believe that these

in fact, biblically speaking, Satan is described as as the most beautiful being. He's the he was he was he was the sum of And and and he was absolutely And so quite the opposite of the Western tradition and I think that goes for Satan and and the other angelic beings who defected with him from the kingdom. And and are now in opposition of the king of heaven and they're at least in

part here on earth and again have been long before Adam. At least from my theological perspective and many others as well but but from my theological perspective they've been here a long time. So let's differentiate between the watchers who descended in the days of Jared who the Bible designates as the devil and his angels, the dragon Huh. and the the other apostate princes cuz that's what they are. These were princes in the kingdom of heaven. Okay, so what I'm trying to describe here is a kingdom, a real kingdom, not an

imaginary kingdom, not a spiritual kingdom, not a interdimensional kingdom cuz these are all there may be you know interdimensional aspects and things like that but I'm trying to get people to disassociate the kingdom of heaven with sort of the fairy tale stuff and think of it instead as a practical functioning and that the the those who've defected from that kingdom before the creation of Adam, in other words, angelic beings who defected from that kingdom are still here with us today and perhaps elsewhere.

Um and and that those beings according to the Bible are still active in the world. And so so from my point of view these beings are they they they they they are very They look we look like them. These angelic beings which is which is apparent in the in the biblical narrative every time human beings encounter angels in the narrative. And

when I I'm stressing narrative because you have the narrative of the Bible and then you have the prophetic content. The prophetic content is a world of This is, you know, when when when the prophets are having these visionary experiences, they're either A in a trance or B dreaming. They never go anywhere. They're in a trance or they're dreaming. So, just like in a dreamscape, everything you encounter in a in as much as it means anything, is

So, this is a world of symbolism and communication, the world of the what I'm calling the prophetic, right? So, set that aside. And but the narrative, what I refer to as the narrative, the biblical narrative, is the actual story. I'll give you an example. Abraham encounters angelic beings in the narrative, not in any vision, not in a in the actual narrative of the story, Abraham encounters a group of angelic and he has dinner with them. He sups with them.

You interact with them just like we interact with each other. And they look like us. They look human. They're not human, but they look human. his nephew Lot encounters angelic beings who come to extract him and his family before the destruction of Sodom. what does he do with these beings? He eats with them. He has dinner with them. And then they escort him out of the city and the city is destroyed. So, what I'm trying to establish here is is that

these beings that we describe, again, I'm coming from a Christian perspective, the beings that we descri- that we call angels in the Bible, we have a false perception of what these beings are, what they look like, and what they do. Um and that perception comes from tradition. It's It's It's not extracted from the biblical narrative. It rather It comes from church tradition and just western tradition in general. And in the western tradition, of course, we're all familiar with the depiction of cherubim

in the Catholic Church in Roman Catholicism, which depicts them as as little chubby toddlers, basically, with little wings. is absurd. That's absurd. It's not what cherubim are. That's not how they're described in the Bible. And even the way they're described in the Bible is symbolic. So, because that's within the that's within that visionary context. But, um angels, whenever they're in the whenever they're actually interacting with mankind in the narrative, they look very much like we do.

And they don't have wings. Angels do not have wings. And in fact, um there are these vehicles that are described in the Bible, and I'm not talking about Ezekiel's wheel. Because Ezekiel's wheel, we're going to relegate that to the visionary stuff, the dreamscape stuff, cuz that's what that was. It's symbolic. Um so, I don't think Ezekiel's wheel is a is a UFO. However, in the narrative, you have these other vehicles that are called the chariots of God or the

chariots of Israel or the chariots of They're described variously, but the same thing. And these are very ambiguous, but these are clearly some kind of vehicle of And, you know, I'm I'm old enough to know that horses don't fly. you know, the the Bible doesn't oblige me to believe that horses fly. Because when you think of a chariot, obviously, a chariot is the most

advanced vehicle of conveyance in the mind of the Iron Age writer, right? There's nothing that's more advanced than a chariot. That's it. I mean, that's like the Ferrari of their time. chariot is pulled by horses. So, if you're trying to describe a that is advanced, you might describe it as a chariot. A chariot of fire, or a chariot of God, or chariot of Israel. so I do believe that these beings, these

angelic beings, A, as I said earlier, they look like us. Why do they look like us, by the way? Something I mentioned earlier. Because they are siblings. They're the older siblings. They're the sons of God that preexist us. Then Adam's created to be a son of God. So it's a family. Clearly, it's a family. And we were supposed to be part of it. and we were part of it in the beginning. Um, but we've been sundered from the family, divorced from the family of God. This is the great tragedy of of of our

We we're sundered from the family, subjected to um subjected to decay and degeneration. And but the good news is, and this is what the good news what I alluded to earlier is that there's a way back in through Christ. He brings us back and restores us back into the family of Um, so these other sons of God, the morning stars, remember that that that we're singing together and the sons of God shouting for joy

before mankind was created. That because we're members of the same family, we bear the same image. We look similar to one another, and I would go further than that. I would say, based on everything we've discussed here from the book of Enoch and Genesis 6, we're so alike that we're that we are we're genetically compatible. We can copulate. We can procreate. That's exactly what we're doing in the book of Enoch. That's exactly what's

happening in Genesis 6. Uh the sons of God are procreating with human women. So, I just I just choose the path of least resistance here. It's because they're genetically compatible. And one thing I didn't mention when we're talking about those sons of God was that the impetus, what I call the first cause of the watchers defection, was lust. They lusted, the Book of Enoch says, and this is what the Genesis 6 implies. They lusted after the daughters of men. They

were sexually attracted to human women. Well, I mean, we can extrapolate then that they have the male machinery, right? Because you you if if you're just some wraith or you're just some spiritual being, how do you lust? How are you consumed with lust after the female form? And then furthermore, how do you copulate with a woman and and procreate? And and so I as again, I just take the path of least least resistance. I add up

all of these data points from the biblical narrative and I conclude we are the younger sibling. They are the older sibling. I call them the the elder the elder race in my book. By the way, that's a a wink and a nod to J. R. R. Tolkien. Remember the Eldar? Yes. In the uh in the um the the the Lord of the Rings and and the Silmarillion were they were the The high elves and and they were who were somewhat related to

humans and could certainly copulate with them. So, but that's not why I that's not exactly from where I derived the idea. I derived it from the biblical text that we are the younger sibling. So, why am I building I'm building this structure here so that I can so that I can begin to build on top of it. So, what I'm trying to depict here is that there's a faction of beings, perhaps one of many, that are

preexist us. They look like us, rather we look like them. They're more magnificent than we King David said in the Psalms that that mankind was created to be a little lower than the heavenly beings. Okay, so these are those heavenly beings. We're we were members of the same family. That's why we literally look like each other. We bear the image of our father. And who's the express image according to the scriptures? The express image and likeness of the father? The son of God.

So basically we look like the son of God, who's the preeminent son. And so we are genetically compatible. We can copulate. And so I'm depicting a class of beings, who are technologically advanced, who who use utilize technology. Dare I say flying saucers? have knowledge that that is much older than any any knowledge on earth, much more advanced, who come from a kingdom

the Bible describes as the kingdom of A literal kingdom with a king and a council and and courts and courtiers and couriers and armies. You know the the the most common name for for for Yahweh in the Old Testament is Lord of armies. Lord of hosts. That means Lord of armies. So you have angelic armies. And as I when I was a kid I always

how do you have like supernatural How do they how do they do battle? Like And because I was thinking of it as supernatural, which means above and beyond nature. And I've I've since changed my view and I believe there is precisely one supernatural being in the universe and that is the Father, God, Uh everything else, everybody else is subjected to the laws of nature, equally Um so, you have this functional kingdom

from which these beings come. Now, so you have this faction of the angelic faction, the sons of God, the morning stars. These are all the same I'm using those terms uh um analogously for these beings. they they they they we look like them, they use technology, they speak a And then you have a group of them that Those are the quote-unquote fallen angels. That's the group that defects from the kingdom.

Those are the those are the the beings who are in opposition to the king of heaven on earth, opposition to his kingdom, opposition to mankind, corrupting, always seeking to corrupt, and and cause man mankind to become disaffected with the kingdom of heaven and to sin against God and to reap the repercussions, which is what they were doing with Israel. And these beings are here. those beings speak the same language as their the unfaithful

fallen angelic beings speak the same language as the faithful ones. They look the same. They use the same technology. again, what I'm doing here is I'm creating this this structure upon which, coming from a Christian perspective, to be able to understand the phenomenon without reverting to >> What do you think they want to do with humanity now? Do they have intentions for us? Oh, yeah. There's no question about it. I mean, from a biblical

the enemies of God, first and foremost, are in opposition to everything that that God desires. And they are their their almost their job is to lead mankind astray Mhm. into apostasy, to cause mankind to and and to destroy us and by doing so to do injury to to to God. Uh that's part of what they do. They're also um this is all building this is all

accumu- um this is all um crescendoing. This is the crescendo of my book Birthright. The the the culmination is Armageddon. Mhm. And Armageddon is so often interpreted as a war with Israel. But if you really if you really uh pay attention, Armageddon is a war with the Son of God returning to the earth. And I believe that's a kinetic war. I think that literally these fallen sons of God, these apostate sons of God

are are are slowly building eventually they're going to be building an army. They're they're they're amassing the technology, they're building an army, they're leading humanity into a post-human condition. And the objective is to usurp dominion of the earth and resist the Son of God returning to the earth. Now, I understand that you know, that's a very theological position. So, your your viewers who aren't coming from a biblical perspective may think that that's absolutely absurd. However, from a biblical perspective, that's

absolutely accurate. Mhm. So, um so yes, there's a conflict coming. And all of this is is mounting towards that conflict, that ultimate conflict between good and evil. And so those beings are at work in the earth. They've been here for a very long time. So, let me make this really practical for And then I'll shut up. Let me make this really practical. >> No, I love it. you know, I'm I'm you probably were. I'm I'm um

a person who is completely utterly of the nuts and bolts reality of of the UFO phenomenon because I myself have seen a UFO right above my car, 40 ft above my car. A you know, a UFO. I think it was a um ARV, but nevertheless >> Where was this? Brook Park, Ohio. Wow. Um so that >> near Wright-Patterson or No, it's near uh the John Glenn NASA Research Center and also um well well yeah, the the NASA center

>> think it was possibly human reverse engineered or So I'll digress into this really quick because this this does sort of illustrate the point I was about to make. Um uh So this was during a time this was probably my God, I don't know, 14 years ago. I don't know. I always probably say a different number cuz I I'm I'm really bad with numbers and dates and stuff. It was It was before I currently live in Montana. It was before I moved to Montana. I was living in Brook Park, Ohio I rather uh Cleveland, Ohio, where I was born. I was born in Brook Park, Ohio. and I had just returned, you know, a

year or two previous to that from Peru. I lived in Peru for for about 10 years. And I was living in Cleveland and not far from my brother-in-law. And he and I would always work out in his basement. And we'd always lift weights in his basement and and and I would say more often than not the topic of conversation was UFO stuff. And we deep into Lazar and just kind of kicking around what what the reverse engineered technology would look like. And you know, all of that sort of stuff.

Talking about gray aliens, talking about sort of all the ufological lore. That was more often than not the this the the topic of conversation. And he's an inventor, and so he liked to think about like, you know, maybe what what what some of the anti-gravitics look like and stuff like that. And so one day probably was the top topic of conversation this evening. We were working out in his basement and he wanted to run over to the suburb Brook Park, Ohio, which is that's where I would actually grew up as in Brook Park,

And uh so we we hopped in my car and this was probably we we were trying to get there before it closed. I think it closed at 9:00. This was in February. Really it was really cold outside and it was really windy this particular night like really really windy. And we jumped in my car and we drove over to Brook Park and we went to the Brook Park uh strip mall the the Brookgate it was called Brookgate strip mall. I don't know if it's still there to this day but I used to ride my bike around there very very familiar with this area and then you know not far from

there is the airport and the John Glenn The NASA Center. And there's also a um um a um reserve what do you call it the Army Reserve or whatever it's called um a base close by. Air Force base or Army base? Okay. Yeah and um uh National Guard. National Guard. National Guard and so we're we're it's dark outside it's probably 8:30 or and we're we're we're pulling up to the

Brook Park Brookgate shopping uh strip mall. And there's this light and we got to go through the light and then you go in the parking lot and we're stopped at the and we're we're both kind of just we're just talking. He I remember he was talking to me about some invention he had related to like a toothbrush. I can remember that. And um as he's talking we're we're we're just kind of looking ahead and we see this thing this craft hovering above the corner store and it's got really bright And we immediately thought it was a uh training exercise from the National

Guard. That's what we thought. Oh, look at that there's a helicopter it's a training exercise. Like it was big hel- I thought it was a like a Chinook or something or like a Black Hawk. And and we were just sort of um um you know uh amazed that they're they're hovering that low over the building. It was probably only 30 ft above the building. And so we rolled our windows down cuz we thought we were going to hear the telltale sound of blades whipping through the air. And we were close enough we should have heard it. And we it was windy, granted. And we looked at each other like,

I go through the light. There's hardly about anybody in the parking lot cuz it's almost everything's almost closing, right? We're rushing to get to the store. Probably 8:45 by now. Pull into the parking lot. And I don't even like park I just throw vehicle into park because this craft that was hovering above the corner store it lifts up in the air and effortlessly glides right over my car. But it wasn't a directly above it was in front so that it it like positioned itself so I could get a full view of it through my windshield. So it was in front but

above. And then it descended to about 40 it was immediately apparent to me and my brother-in-law that this was not National Guard. This was not this was not anything conventional. Um it it it was reminiscent of the F-117 Nighthawk >> Mhm. fighter. It had sort of that angular body armor a little bit of that. And it was like a grayish green dark Although it was hard to tell cuz it was nighttime. It had really bright

triangular lights. I remember two my brother-in-law remembers one but triangles lights white. And then it had a series of I think green and blue lights around the perimeter at the And it it didn't have wings. It had little stubby protrusions in the place of wings. And it was kind of shape like a diamond. And um it it it was it it didn't really have sharp angles. It was very smooth. Um there was no visible windshield or

anything like that. No markings. There was no propulsionary system this propulsion system to speak of. No No propellers. Um nothing like that at all. Again, it just had little stubby protrusions in the place of wings. It was not aerodynamic is what I'm trying to say. And and we rolled our windows down to listen to hear if it if if if there's any noise of an engine. Nothing. Completely silent. All we heard was the wind. The wind was so strong that it was rocking my car like this. Um it's

rocking the gusts of winds are rocking my little Kia Sportage I think is what I had at the time. And and this thing just like I said descended and just hovered there like I was supposed to see it. And we're just staring at this thing. I remember saying the only thing I could say was that is some top secret. That's what I told him. And and then we're just staring at this and and then suddenly like I'm thinking I don't I have a flip phone at the time. He has a smartphone. I'm thinking

get a picture. Get a video get video of this thing. So I said, "Tony, your phone. Your phone." And he like like he's coming out of a trance and he starts, you know, looking for his phone in his pocket. He finds his phone, pulls it out, drops it on the So he he bends over to pick up his phone, right, to get a to get a picture or footage. And as he's bending over I mean we probably were staring at this thing for at least 30 seconds, which is a long time, maybe even a minute or two. I don't remember. We had a long look at this thing. And as he's fidgeting on the ground to find his

phone, the craft lifts up into the air. Again, it is so windy and I failed to mention the craft is completely unaffected by the wind. Completely. As if it's in its own atmospheric Lifts up into the air. And then it begins to turn effortlessly. And by the time he gets his phone up it's moving away. And it's just gliding away and we jump out of the car and it is I just remember jumping out of the car getting blasted in the face with ice cold wind

and by the time he got his phone up it was descending over the horizon like over behind the houses toward the glass uh I'd rather toward the NASA um John Glenn Center by the way. Right in that direction. Well, no. I I I again it had no insignia, no Air Force insignia. It was not a helicopter. It was the size of a Chinook or a Black Hawk helicopter. No insignia no propellers, no noise, no propulsion system, no windshield.

Was it a drone? I don't know. Whatever it was it was not using conventional technology. That's for sure. You know, I mean you know, when a Harrier jet takes off if there's vehicles below it like blows them out of the way, right? It's this thing nothing. So, I don't know why but I sort of concluded that I was looking at you know, what what people call ARVs alien um reproduction vehicle. I I don't know why. I can't I can't say I don't know why. But I got the distinct sensation that that that this was ours.

This was this was but but that the technology was exotic. I don't know. That was just a feeling which doesn't mean much but that's what I saw. And and that was it for me. Okay? So, everything that I had been learning about in the realm of ufology, right? Was suddenly concretized in that moment. Now, that doesn't mean that everything's true but it means the phenomenon is real. 100% We've got advanced technology. Now, whether we you know, took some divergent path from

Nikola Tesla and built it ourselves or whether we derived some of this technology from crash retrievals which is what I believe. In fact, I would say I know that to be true at this point in my life. Um the phenomenon is real, the technology is real, people are in possession of it and are utilizing it, are deploying it. Um and that really, like I said, it concretized the whole thing in my mind way back then. And so, moving forward from that it it wasn't, you know, I I wasn't

struggling and choking on aspects of ufology like a lot of people do because they've never seen anything. I was able to just have this baseline understanding that, yeah, something's there's some aspect of this is is absolutely real. Do you think this biblical fallen angel idea accounts for all of the phenomena that we see? Okay. That's a very good question. So, this loops us right back into what I was

saying, which was I established that I believe that the the good guys and the bad guys look the same. We look like them. They come from an advanced ancient civilization that preexists us, biblically speaking. And some of them are loyal to the king of heaven and some of them are in opposition to him. So, you have the quote-unquote good angels and fallen angels, right? Loyal sons of God, disloyal sons of God. and they're both operating,

I believe, with the same technology. So, like I said earlier, you know, we established that the watchers are a separate group from I believe they're the same species, so to speak, but they're a separate group. when the watchers descended to Mount Hermon, I believe that they were at the helms of advanced aerospace vehicles. I believe that the technology of this civilization is exceedingly advanced. So, some of what we see out there is, for a lack of a better term angelic

technology. That's the way that I would describe it. some of that technology is being piloted by good guys and some of that technology is being piloted by bad guys. But the technology itself, you cannot ascribe motive to piece of hardware. You can't say that that piece of hardware, you know, flying saucers is no more good or evil than than than my truck. >> So you would say as below so above, they're getting bad people and they're getting bad.

>> just like on Earth. Yeah, there's there's factions of human beings and some some of us do good and some of us do evil, but we're the same species and we use the same technology. >> So this is interesting cuz it's almost uh you know, we've heard people like Jacques Vallée talk about connecting the modern phenomena with sort of biblical Uh and then you also have people like Hal Puthoff who actually lives out here in Austin who wrote an interesting paper about the Silurian hypothesis. These these ultraterrestrials.

So survivors of an ancient cataclysm and you're sort of combining them. Well, I'm I'm So so that's the first that's just a component of the phenomenon. That just Do I believe that describes the totality? No. It does not describe the totality of the phenomenon. >> I'm glad you're saying that cuz I I agree. I think it's every time we try to Yes, no, I don't No, I don't believe that describes the totality of the phenomenon. I think that's an that's a that's an aspect of the phenomenon. These beings we call angels in the biblical narrative. Angel, by the way, is just a occupational

descriptor in the Bible. It just means messenger and envoy, one who is sent. It doesn't give us any insight into the nature of those beings. And and often they're kind of terrifyingly violent. Well, the the the the the the bad ones are certainly. So >> even I mean depends on where like in the Old Testament, sometimes they're violent, but it's sort of in this >> Sodom and Gomorrah. Sodom and Gomorrah, exactly. They eviscerated Sodom and Gomorrah. How did they do that? I don't know. Lasers or Maybe there was a saucer hovering above that thing. >> Yep. So, um

uh so, you know, people this is very difficult and it was difficult for me in the beginning to sort of retool my mind. Um Yeah, but you know what? To challenge the audience, you know, anybody who's like we're talking about stuff that's serious now and that the government's talking about, but in the past all of this is it's extremely speculative and you have to if you have these ancient traditions that are all triangulating towards a common truth and you have, you know, eons. I mean,

And what I mean by this is if I know because I'm so convinced of the biblical narrative, right? I know that that faction exists, this angelic faction, and that they're in the game. They're they're major players in the game here. But also, uh being a uh eager ufologist for all these years, I know that gray aliens exist. And I know I say that definitively, but I think that that that that that the evidence is overwhelming. And and the reason why I say the

evidence is overwhelming primarily, it's not because of the whistleblowers and all of the crash retrieval stuff, Leonard Stringfield, all that stuff he compiled. Although all of that is what what what pushes me over the edge is alien abduction. That's what pushes me over the edge in regard to gray aliens. So, um I have too many friends and associates who've seen them Yeah. and have been touched and touched them and have been taken by them. So, So, Yeah, the amount of people out there

>> And I don't people say that that's been debunked and other people say it hasn't been debunked, but um I didn't know that was his video. Yeah, Roger Leir captured that. Wow. Isn't that weird? >> That's wild. >> Here's a guy pulling implants out of people. That's his video. So, now whether or not that video has actually been debunked, I don't think so. Mhm. Um I think it's one of the most compelling videos I've ever seen. Certainly Is it Is it Lebanon or is it Turkey? >> Or Turkey. >> Turkey, yeah. Somewhere in there. Somewhere in that area, yeah. I don't remember where it is. They're looking over the ocean. And it's an amazing >> Yes. And and I mean it looks like the

the big bulbous-headed gray aliens in there. And nobody's ever conclusively debunked it. As with a lot of imagery, it's you have the negatives and nobody can conclusively say it's fake. >> before the age of AI. Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> So, I don't know. But that's Roger Leir was was awesome. >> Mhm. And yeah, implants are are so overlooked. I mean, it's like By the way, this is often times my conversation with some of the congressional people I interact with. Like, you want evidence? Yeah. There's a lot of people walking around with with exotic material, technological

material in their bodies. And and I don't there's there's no question about it. I mean uh can mine the most physical material evidence. Is the abduction stuff. >> Yeah, it's so strange you know, I I interviewed Whitley Strieber and you could say what you want about some of his stories or his book or his writing background, whatever. I felt an implant in his ear and I don't think he should Put it in his own ear. Behind the ear, yeah. And I don't think

he's doing that for show. Yeah, it's right here. It's at the top of his ear and it's so strange and then I just did a show with my buddy Chris Ramsey who runs this great podcast called Area 52. We had this guy come up on stage and he had an experience when he was a child and he has something very similar in his ear and he could put a magnet Oh, yeah. externally on it and it'll stick there. It's so strange. Most people who have implants, most of them are generally located somewhere in the head. Although people have had them all over. Roger Leir extracted implants from knees and whatever. And you know, my my colleague

and good friend Ellie Marzulli worked with Leir and and and was there when he they extracted some of these implants and and they would describe he would describe to me how some of these implants were evasive. >> Yeah. They move and they don't call they're not rejected by the body. >> Yeah. They don't cause swelling. They they migrate around the body. But often and and many abductees have ejected them unintentionally from their nasal cavity. you know, they'll have a bloody nose and they eject an implant. Their little BB will come out or something. >> will come out and they're they're shaped

variously. Like some of them are look like tiny little pills, oblong, some of them are round, whatever. Um and I think Leir concluded that they that they they had some sort of nanotechnology in in them. Yeah. It's very very sophisticated technology and it's like that's physical evidence. >> It is physical evidence. >> That's physical evidence. And not only >> Mhm. And I know we're we're diving into alien abduction, but not only that, cuz let me before I dive into alien abduction, let me just wrap up what I was saying real quick. So, I said that the angelic stuff doesn't account for

the biological species, the organic species, and they're making the little And there's not just little grays, I mean, there's there's big grays, too. I mean, from, you know, from ufological lore, at least. And but the little ones are the ones that come to retrieve the abductees. So, that's a faction. And so, when I say these things and I and I talk about angelic beings, people conflate the two. Like, they think I'm saying that the grays are the angelic beings. I am not. I just want to make that What do we think the grays are? So, I don't know. Um I have no idea what gray aliens are

they have bases here now. So, let's say there was a forward operation of grays that came years ago. Well, they established bases a long time ago, just like we would. If we were were coming, by the way, for a hostile purpose, we would come and we would establish a forward operating base. And and in anticipation for more of us coming later, right? And so, those forward operating bases would be would be established in in in the areas that that human beings would least look for them or or be able to

discover them, which would be at the bottom of our oceans, under the ground, underground bases. And and certainly at this point in time, I would say that it's it's much more uh it's much more likely to be true than not. Let's put it in very generous terms that these bases exist. Specifically, the Grays. And maybe maybe there's mobile bases, you know, the Four Chans stuff that I've seen of mobile bases. >> That's right. And they're creating these craft to spec, which I think is again, wildly intriguing.

>> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cuz it seems to comport to a lot of the data. The then the other stuff about how the Grays excrete you know, they excrete waste out of their skin. They smell like ammonia and sulfur. That's why people say, "Oh, it's And and you know, people sometimes Christians say, 'Well, they smell like sulfur, so therefore they're from >> Right. It's like, "Whoa, whoa. They smell like ammonia and sulfur." >> Yeah. Which is which is like, you know, urine coming out of your skin. >> That's what that would smell like, right? If you're excreting your waste through your skin, that's you know, you would expect it to smell like ammonia.

And and then like that sulfuric smell, I could imagine that. Um if you're dealing with beings that are excreting waste through their skin. They don't have sexual organs. Um they don't appear to have tongues or or or they might have palates in their mouth, but they don't appear to have Um their organs appear to be different from ours. but they are clearly physical beings because they they crash and die. And you know, I've got a friend who I've got a friend who is an abductee and

and she actually in one of her experiences she actually grabbed one by the neck and squeezed it before she passed out in one of her abduction episodes and she said it felt leathery like a snake like you know like the skin of a snake cold clammy leathery. Wow. And so you know the the the popular idea today is that some people don't think that these are actually sentient beings that they're just sort of meat suits either for artificial artificial intelligence or in the Christian community it's very popular to say they're meat suits for uh I don't subscribe to that theory

myself but I think as I said I would describe them as cybernetic clones. And the reason why I would describe them that way I know we're like diving into gray I don't know if you want to talk about >> it. Yeah of course. But the reason why I would describe them that way is because they do appear to have according to >> Mhm. they do appear to have >> Mhm. Vague personalities but personalities nonetheless. Why do I say that? Because in the abduction material you find abductees who can recognize the

research with any sort of idea of as to the intentions of these beings or you >> Yes I I think that so um Budd Hopkins was just sort of documenting the phenomenon. You know as an objective observer maybe subjective sometimes. He did get very very enraptured in the lives of the abductees. but brilliant brilliant researcher. Um I'm going to I'm going to separate out John Mack, who I have tons of respect for. Love John Mack. But John Mack was much more psychologically involved in the phenomenon, like, you know, kind of

just sort of trying to parse it from a psychological aspect. He was on the fence about it being The physical physical the the the physical world. But but nevertheless, he laid a lot of groundwork. And him and Budd some of the I don't know if you can still find Have you ever seen the interactions the the the the dialogues between Budd Hopkins and >> John Mack. >> I have. >> they were childhood friends. >> were just complete gentlemen. Yeah. Both of them were extremely intelligent guys. Both of them very objective. Um so they're never arguing. They're

just having dialogue and it was some of the awesome some awesome UFO content that's that's not seen very often anymore. You you could probably still find it on YouTube. Just I have a ton of respect for both those guys. So Budd Budd Hopkins kind of a the the physical the physical reality of the of the abduction experience, missing time, you know, the the the table procedures, all that kind of stuff. Then car then enter Karla Turner, who was herself a student of Budd Budd Hopkins from a far,

and and Barbara Bartholic, who she interacted with, another great abduction researcher. And that what what made Turner unique was that she was an abductee and her family. So now she is writing from the the um from the perspective of being an abductee. And her family was subject subjected to both alien abduction and mylabs, military abduction. And Karla Turner's stuff is so fascinating. Um I love Karla Turner. She died obviously very aggressive cancer.

Believe Hopkins died of cancer, too, if I'm not mistaken. Barbara Bartholic, if I recall, died in a very but died in a car accident. Um John Mack was hit by a >> John Mack was hit by a car, and if I recall, another guy named John Mack was hit by a car in the same day, right? In In England something like that. Very strange circumstances. >> Weird. And then, you know, uh David Jacobs is still alive. >> Yeah. I think has dementia. I think so. Yeah. Um and so, Karla Turner was was What's the the lesson here is don't study alien abduction or something.

>> You know, think about that. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Turner said that she would say that she would be in her book she wrote a she wrote the book um Taken. Mhm. She wrote the book Into the Fringe, which was the story about her And then, of course, Masquerade of Angels, which documents the story of Ted Rice, who's still alive. And and Turner was so fascinating because she was so so um unflinchingly objective. Even though she

her life was being affected by this, she would say, "We don't know where they're from, and we cannot believe anything they tell Here's what we know. We know they take against our will. We know that they force us to carry babies. We know that they take sperm and eggs. We know that they subject us to all kinds of invasive procedures." So, she was very very She was not like trying to put her own spin on it, um which I really appreciated about Karla.

I I I I We really lost a a an amazing researcher in Karla Turner. When she died, um and the new You know, all these new people coming to ufology, they don't they don't they don't read Turner. They don't read Hopkins, you know? So, but what I was going to say about Turner was um she really a couple of things, the capabilities of these beings. She referred to what something she described

as virtual reality scenarios, VRSs, that these beings were were in possession of technology that allowed them to fabricate virtual reality experiences so that an abductee can be seeing and hearing things and in this complete virtual environment and you could have other people around them and they're not seeing the same thing. So, it's like a hijacking of human >> It's literally Descartes' demon. Yes. So, you could they have the ability to hijack, I think, both through telepathic

powers and technology, the implants. So, and and external technology that's directed toward the abductee. So, Turner's first like the the first thing she would stress or one of the main in her books and in her lectures was you cannot believe these beings. You can't. You can't believe anything they're showing you. You can't even trust your own experiences when you're with them because they control your perception

You are under their control. That's the That's one of the main things she would >> I think that's a very healthy starting point as to how to how to think about all It is a very healthy starting point. all these people established, like with alien abduction, John Mack and and David Jacobs and all of this really culminates in David Jacobs. Like David Jacobs, I feel like pulls all the pieces together, puts them together. Um from a very objective uh um from a very objective perspective. Uh

he, of course, being was a tenured professor of history at at Temple University. So, he was approaching it as a historian. And all of these people, mo- you know, between them, they they interviewed thousands of abductees, thousands. And some of it was hypnotic regression and some of it was, like with David Jacobs, he didn't practice hypnotic regression. He just did what he called relaxation techniques. And so, all of them would One of the things that

you realize is that this phenomenon, alien abduction, their starting point, just like you said, is deception. That's how it That's the starting point of this phenomenon. The program is covert. The Grays don't tell They don't communicate to you what the program is And you throw in the the virtual reality scenarios that they generate. And And that's not to say that the abduction experience is virtual reality.

No, it's 100% physical. You're literally taken from the point of abduction and brought onto an alien vessel and subjected to all the procedures that are typical of the of the abduction episode. But they have the power to completely hijack hijack your perception. And in addition to that, they implant false So, they they implant screen memories so that the real memories have to be retrieved behind that screen. So, when you're dealing with beings who

but I would disagree that as it And so did Dr. David Jacobs, by the way. I And I would guess Turner probably would have disagreed with this as well, although I don't know that for sure. Jacobs definitely. that the alien abduction phenomenon has anything to do with fairies and gnomes and sky people. I disagree. I I agree with Jacobs. I would say this is a completely different phenomenon. Now, does that mean that there weren't saucers and and techno No, no, it

doesn't it it I think that that that that sort of technology did exist in the antediluvian past. I'm just saying there's a different faction in play right now or at least another faction in play. This specific faction, the gray It It's interesting because I remember I had and I don't I think I said this in my book. I had personally come to the conclusion after consuming all of this abduction material from from from these excellent researchers, the old school guys and gals. I remember concluding

that it appears to me that the abduction phenomenon must have somewhere around the mid to late 1800s. That was my conclusion. And I remember um and I drew that conclusion based on the fact that it seems that this phenomenon, the recollections of this phenomenon only go back to the mid-1800s, early 1900s. Um and I remember I was at the gym working out with with my ear with my

headphones on listening to David Jacobs, listening to one of his lectures. And he said in his lecture that he and Bud Hopkins, because they were colleagues and and and did a lot of work together, that he and Bud Hopkins had concluded that the abduction that the abduction phenomenon began in the mid to late And that it is not older than that. And I was just astounded like that's that's precisely what I thought. And I still think that to this day.

I believe that the abduction phenomenon began, let's call it the turn of the century, maybe late 1800s, early 19th century. And this is in a very interesting period of time. Because what most people don't realize about the turn of the century, the 19th is that there was a corresponding phenomenon happening all around the world, especially the United States and in the West generally speaking. It was the phenomenon of spiritualism.

Birthright, I was researching articles uh from the 18 late 1800s, early 1900s, all about this I mean some of these are all about this phenomenon of spiritualism, this wave of spiritualism. And and some of these articles said one of these articles in particular said that it was it was as common at the at the height of this thing for an American to get up on a Sunday morning and go to a seance as it was to go to church. And so when I say spiritualism, I'm talking about you know, basically what

the Bible describes as divination. Um this is seances, these are all kinds of sort of acquiring of medium. >> Yeah, mediumship seances. >> Mediumship. It was happening in the White House. It was it was extremely common. This is when you had the >> yeah, go for it. The go ahead. Go ahead. I was just going to say that the parapsychology started then. The Society for Psychical Research in the UK started then. You had William James and uh yeah.

>> Those sisters, what were their names? They could make tables levitate and stuff like that. I forget the those sisters and And you have and then of course you had theosophy as well. Right in the middle of it. Salons looking at you know, have with all this occult history and these you know, this alternative history involving root races and Hyperboreans and Atlanteans and that sort of thing. Right in the middle of it. The Theosophical Society is established. Exactly. With with Helena Blavatsky. um so you have this this

rampant in the West, the United States and Europe. And then suddenly, at the same time, you have the mystery airship phenomenon. Literally, same time. These things These things coalesce. >> That's fascinating. >> The the the the movement of spiritualism and the the the airship phenomenon. Now, I would say a good portion, I remember talking to Richard Dolan about this, that a good portion of the mystery airship phenomenon is just

Is is newspapers, periodicals at the time just trying to one-up each other, right? With sensational stories. even even considering that that that much of it was that, you still have nestled inside of this mystery airship that are very credible, witnessed by many many people, and that correspond to the modern UFO phenomenon. Silvery objects flying in the sky. You know, I think a lot of the the

the propellers and the balloons and all that kind of stuff that people say they saw in the mystery airships was confabulation. Mhm. Remember, nobody's flying yet. Nobody's flying yet. >> It's pre-Wright brothers. But you know what you have out there? Jules Verne. So you have the steampunk Yeah. in the minds of the observers. And so I think in many of these cases, nobody can understand like you take a piece of metal and throw it up in the sky and and you can't envision how this thing can just stay up there, right? It It falls to the ground. So see that little shiny thing way up there? It must have

balloons. It must have propellers. I think a lot of people confabulated you know, the the they they sort of overlaid the the steampunk stuff. >> in the Bible. >> Just like chariots. That's precisely right. So but I think that you know, when you when you when you when you distill the credible real uh sightings and you and you you know, you take all the cream off the top of all of the hyperbole and and sensationalism, you're left with a phenomenon that is very much like what

we have today. Very much like what we have today in terms of the metallic objects, the saucer, the cigar-shaped craft, you know, darting around in the sky, moving at impossible speeds. you have So, you have spiritualism, mystery airship, alien abduction coalescing the same time. And this gets us this into some very bizarre territory because I think that

but I think that to some extent we invited Mhm. the phenomena. Not not the totality of it. I'm just talking about a sliver, the gray alien faction, And and this is what people get confused with when I'm when I'm when I'm talking. They sort of jumble everything I'm saying and and and and not you, but a lot of people in my audience. So, I've separated out the angelic faction, okay? That were here long before we were, right? They were here long before we were. So, they've been flying around here

forever. I mean, since before human beings were were even created, biblically speaking. That faction is out here. They're We've already thrown them out into the ether. Now, we're narrowing down on this other one called gray aliens, which I would say is a separate faction, a separate thing. Now, people, you know, from from my community, Christians, the there's some very interesting ideas out there. Some people think that the gray aliens were manufactured by that group.

Uh I don't know. I mean, I I don't know. I guess anything's possible. Some people think that the gray aliens are meat suits for demons. There's all kinds of ideas floating around there, right? Some people think the gray aliens, that faction, are the watchers, whatever. There's a lot of ideas. But what I'm trying to do here is I'm I took that the sons of God, I've separated them out. Now we're focused on gray aliens. I think that the gray aliens arrived. I don't believe they're from here. I think they came here, okay? They arrived to the Earth. Um maybe

there were some forward groups that were here just sort of preparing. But the abduction phenomenon began. As far as I can tell, and in in in in in accord with Hopkins and and Jacobs, the the abduction phenomenon began in the mid-eight- middle 18- 1800s. And I think that it had something to do The grays' arrival had something to do with the phenomenon of spiritualism. There's a coalescing of these two things

it maybe we were broadcasting something. Maybe we were think again theologically speaking, maybe we were permitting something to happen through divination. just speculating here. But but I don't think it's coincidental that these two things dovetail. No, and it's really interesting, you know, you hear about this Magenta crash, you know, 1933 in Italy. And you know, it's being spoken about in very official circle. Like this is what David Grusch came out with talking about. He wasn't talking about, you

what he was obsessed with. But he was stationed in Magenta, Italy with his father Hugh Angleton. And Malmgren is 89 when I'm interviewing him and he is just obsessing over this idea that the Knights of Malta have something to do with this crash. And you know they're obviously this military arm of the Vatican. >> Yeah. But they also have kind of you >> Headquarters at the Vatican. Yeah, exactly. And they have uh esoteric roots, you know, they're they're really the um heirs to the

Hospitaliers which are the kind of medic arm to the Templars. And then you hear of things like the Cosmo Club, you know, had to do with UFO crashes. This is this like elite like DC society which was doing kind of occult stuff and this guy Dark Journalist talks a lot about this stuff but I've heard it in circles in UFO whistleblower circles as well. And so there is something here and I don't know what >> looking at the remnants of the mystery schools Yeah, okay. Yeah. And so the mystery schools are to the average

>> So the mystery schools are secret bodies, secret fraternities whose objective it is to preserve and knowledge from the antediluvian world. Mhm. The knowledge that was given to mankind by the gods. That's what the That's the objective of the mystery school is. that's why they go back to at least the Phoenicians, you know, the Freemasons they trace their origins back to well, really back to Tubal-cain and Cain, the the first builders of cities but but

even more specifically one of their primary figureheads is Hiram Abiff. Mhm. Right? We we referenced him earlier who's the who was the great artificer of of the Phoenicians at the time. I believe he was he was part Jewish part Phoenician. And so these mystery schools the the information that they keep that they preserve on the surface it looks metaphysical. On the surface it looks mythic. Mhm.

Like the Freemasons, right? All of their all of their when you see there's a video leaked recently of a Freemasonic right. Mhm. And it just looks like a bunch of adults playing dress-up, right? Um and it is. At this point in time that's primarily what free Freemasonic lodges are. It's a good old boys club where they dress-up and act out things they don't understand. But the the play-acting is a is a mode of preservation of knowledge. So the

mystery schools preserve knowledge in their rights and in their myth their their various mythologies. In fact, that's what mythologies do. Um if you were to talk to the ancient sages for example, and this becomes apparent when you read material that's available from some of these ancient sages from Egypt and from Mesopotamia and so forth. The the myth is is a capsule. Mhm. It's it is designed to encase, to

preserve like a pill. Mhm. It's it's it's designed to preserve and to transmit through time functional information, knowledge. Not metaphysical for the most but knowledge that pertains to what we would call the sciences today. And many of the myths pertain directly to astrology. Mhm. And it when actually more accurately

So many of the myths are astronomical. The the that's encoded is is astronomical. And a lot of it pertains to what we call today the zodiac. Precession of the precession of the equinoxes and cyclic cataclysm. And and these are things that were very important to the ancients, but in addition to that um there's information and knowledge that has been preserved from the antediluvian And without digressing into the whole um

history of of of some of these myths like the Osir- the Osiris myth. Um they they illustrate that the knowledge that's being preserved is from the antediluvian world. as by way of illustration you Osiris, according to legend the story the the myth of Osiris uh you'll recall that he died and his body was divided up. I can't remember how many pieces. Yeah, that's a very important uh part of the

story. I think it was 13 13 pieces. But that story begins by his twin brother Set, who's like the evil version of him um builds this coffin. He has this coffin built cuz Set wants uh usurp Osiris's throne, get rid of And Iris of course is Osiris is of course married to his sister-wife uh and so Set has this sumptuous coffin And he throws a party. And he says in the party, "I've I've

I've got this challenge. I've got this beautiful coffin and whoever fits into it the best, most perfectly gets to keep it, right?" But he already made the proportions to fit his brother Osiris perfectly. when Osiris gets into the coffin Set has him sealed inside, okay? First idea here. Osiris, a god from Zep Tepi, the antediluvian world, is sealed inside of a coffin. um Set has the coffin thrown into the

So, here's Osiris inside of the coffin, who's obviously going to die. He's thrown into the Nile in the coffin. And the coffin floats on the Nile. So, what we have essentially here is an floating on the water with a body of knowledge inside of it from the antediluvian world, right? Osiris represents that body of knowledge. Mhm. And it's floating on the water, comes out of the mouth of the of the um Guess where it makes its way to?

Byblos. Mhm. Which is a Phoenician city. It goes to Byblos. It gets uh beached on the shore. And it gets entangled in the roots of an uh in the branches of an in the acacia Acacia trees are very important in the a very important symbol in in the mystery And in Freemasonry. It gets encased in this acacia tree. As so much so that that you can't see it anymore. It just becomes part of the

uh Isis decides to go on the quest to try and find her husband's body. So, she's going through the lands looking for her husband's body. Isis the objective of the mystery school. Isis embodies the adepts of the mysteries. Her job is to go and find and recover the body of >> Looking for the hermetic knowledge. >> lost knowledge. So, she goes and she finally makes her way to Byblos. And the king of that land, Melicandor, I think was his name. It just occurred to me.

had had taken that tree. He was He saw that tree and he thought it was beautiful and he had it cut down. He had taken it and incorporated it into his palace as a pillar. Well, that's interesting. That's conveying that some of the knowledge is incorporated into the architecture Mhm. some of these palaces and temples and so forth, right? The geometry now is part of the the symbolism and some of the messaging. Cuz remember, inside of that pillar is the coffin

containing the body of Osiris. So, Isis looks for uh she gets to Byblos looking for her husband's body and she she she's able to divine that the body of Osiris is inside of the pillar. She has it cut cut out, takes it back to Where was the pre-flood knowledge condensed? Two places. Among the Phoenicians and among the ancient Egyptians. So, the knowledge is goes to the Phoenicians after the flood and then

from the Phoenicians to the Egyptians, right? We're tracing the idea here through the story. So, Isis has the body of Osiris, but Set gets a hold of it again. But this time he wants to make sure it's not found again, so he chops it up. I think in 13 pieces. That's a that's a detail I should know. Uh pretty sure it's 13. Maybe 14. I want to say 14 pieces. I don't remember. We forgive you. You can Yeah, you'll forgive me for that. But it's it's chop the number is important. I just can't recall. Like I told you, I'm really bad with numbers. So, the body's been

chopped up. >> bad with general memory. Is chopped up into pieces and those pieces are distributed all over the place cuz Set wants to make sure this is never found again. He takes the phallus, you know, chops off his phallus and and it's thrown into the Nile. And either some story say it's swallowed by a croc, others say a big fish. So, the phallus is like gone, And so, I Isis, what does she do? She embarks on another mission to recover the various pieces of this knowledge that had been scattered abroad.

And she starts to recover the body of Osiris, which represents the body of antediluvian knowledge, the knowledge that was given to mankind by the gods. She begins to assemble it. But, she can't find the final piece, which is the phallus, cuz it was eaten. what does she do? She fabricates one. She makes a golden She makes an artificial phallus, so that she can copulate with Osiris. She She resurrects him. She puts all the pieces together. She resurrects him

with the artificial phallus. She copulates with him and becomes impregnated by him, so that And now, she's conceiving the offspring of Osiris, which is Osiris, who's going to be reborn, and that child is named Horus. Mhm. And so, this this story communicates the objective, the modus operandi of the of the mystery school. It is to recover the lost knowledge of the gods, reassemble and resurrect their empire. Mhm.

Literally, bring them back. Mhm. And that may sound crazy and spooky and metaphysical to everybody, but I'm telling you that's what they want to do. I I I I told you earlier that they that one of the primary objectives in order to do this is to go to Mars and get some of the recover some of the knowledge there. They want to bring the gods back, and they actually believe that the gods are real. What's so interesting is Susquehanna McCaslin. Do you know that name? A vague He's trending on Twitter right now, and I don't know when this comes out, but hopefully he's found by the time this comes out, because this is

a guy Oh. who's a general He went missing, yeah. at Wright-Patterson >> Yeah. and I believe ran the lab that essentially, you know, foreign material exploitation ended up with the Roswell pieces, if you believe the lore. And he was Tom DeLonge's source for a lot of his sort of stuff with Secret Machines and To the Stars Academy. Was known as this very kind of wise guy who literally I mean he was AFRL like ran Air Force acquisition. So like in conventional circles is like an

impressive guy. And apparently he would talk a lot about Greek mythology. And so you have to and then you hear things like Diana Pasulka who talks to this NASA mission controller Tim Taylor and she talks about people in the quote-unquote secret space program or even conventional space program You know, paying homage to the sponsors with second century Latin. And then you look at all the names of all of the missions in NASA. >> Well, the place all of the local locales that they land their stuff on.

>> All it's all from the the the the pantheon of of the Greeks and and the ancient Egyptians and the Mesopotamians. >> Yeah, it's fascinating. It's almost as they sort of secret believe they secretly believe that those sort of little G gods or the like, you know, the Greek gods or you know, whatever whatever your tradition is. You the you know, fallen angels are like more vital in some sense than the big G god or something and they're sort of

like, you know, communing with them. >> That's where all of this is headed. I believe that's what I write in in Birthright is the culmination of this. We were talking about this off camera. So what we're headed for here is the formulation of a new religion. And I've been saying this since 2020. We are headed for the formulation of a new religion. See, everybody thought that the neo-atheism that was on the rise back in the the the 2010s was kind of just going to sweep over the Western world and

basically eradicate religion. And actually the opposite is happening now. People are becoming more religious. Yep. And and and and you know, there's a lot of people who are who are becoming Christians now, but then also a lot of people who are just adopting other kinds of or becoming spiritual generally speaking. And then you have also now a religion of technology that the elites are are are obsessed with, right? The Silicon Valley religion that, you know, I think it was uh uh Ray Kurzweil when they when they asked him, "Do you believe in God?" "Not yet." In other

words In other words, we're going to create God, artificial intelligence. This is a religion of the of of the >> has Noah Yuval Harari writing that Homo Deus. That's like that's our next incarnation. It's like when man becomes like God or something. >> In In 100 to What does he say? 100 to 120 years from now, there will be no more human beings left on planet Earth. And what he means is that the human species is going to evolve. Uh this is directed evolution, right? So, we're going to direct the the

the evolutionary ascent of our species using technology. This is the first time we've ever been able to do this. We are now building the tools that are going to give us the capability to modify the human biology wholesale. And and integrate cybernetics, artificial intelligence, and then also something most people don't realize is coming is the genetic revolution. Um artificial wombs, designer babies, all coming along with robotics, advanced robotics, and everything else.

Uh some of it's here, right? Artificial womb technology I think is here. We we It's just, you know, some of these things that there's a moral gray area that that there's some legislating that has to be done in some of these um barriers that have to be surmounted before this stuff hits the commercial market. But the point is that what I see is a convergence of two things I see that a new religion being formulated, and it's going to combine to the convergence of these two ideas. One

is a very ancient idea. This is at the core of the mystery It's called apotheosis. And apotheosis is the deification of man. Man becoming like the gods. That's what apotheosis is. The second this the second component is A belief in the gods. So, the religion of the future in my estimation is this. The gods of old actually exist and we

shall become like them. That is the religion of the future. And what do I mean by the gods? They're going to show up. In UFOs. The gods are coming. And I think this is going to be a component of our going to Mars. I think there's going to be a revelation of Mars that's going to happen in our lifetime. What we talked about before that there's there was in fact an ancient extra extra terrestrial civilization on Mars.

And that the gods of the ancients were actually extraterrestrial beings. Of course, the claim will be also that was one of these extraterrestrial beings. And then furthermore, culminating by the way, I'll remind you in from my point of view, culminating in Armageddon. So, the idea is going to be and this is by the way going full circle back to the beginning of the story where Eve is being tempted by the serpent in Eden. And what does the serpent say to her? "If you eat of this fruit, you will not

surely die. You will be become like the So, that it's going full circle back to the beginning. So, you're going to have a scenario in which again in from my in my estimation from my perspective in which it becomes apparent that the gods of yore were were these real extraterrestrial beings. And the god of the Hebrews is one of those. And he happens to be the tyrant. And so, the gods are going to lead humanity into

a kinetic war. And it really it's post-humanity. I know this sounds crazy, but I do build and I'm not I'm not I don't keep referencing birthright just to to to promote it. But really I do build a a it sounds crazy, but but you can build a logical progression to this reality. And part of this reality is what I call the post-human apocalypse. And what what I mean by post-human apocalypse is precisely what Harari says. That in the future the the the majority of the pop-populace

on planet Earth will be post-human. We'll no longer be Homo sapiens sapien. In other words, we'll no longer be the offspring of Adam and Eve, biblically speaking. They're going to forfeit the the they're going to forfeit the body of Adam, so to speak, and with it the birthright of Adam, which is dominion of the Earth in favor of this this Faustian bargain, in favor of life extension, in favor of living forever. And there's indications in the biblical text that this is in fact going to happen. I mean in the book

of Revelation you have a group of people who are are when when when everything is coming apart in the book of Revelation when basically the judgment of God is befalling on Earth, you have a group of people who cannot die. Mhm. And who are calling for the rocks to fall on them and crush them because they can't die. Mhm. Uh very interesting. I mean, you can imagine a scenario maybe not that far down the road in which we perfected We've we're we're upgraded we're up

maybe I don't know if this is possible. We're uploading our consciousness into artificial bodies, maybe nanotech bodies, maybe robotic whatever. Um combination of all these See, the culmination of these technologies, make no mistake about it. The culmination of the is to is to redesign human biology. It is It is to create homo deus.

It is to create, to build the ubermensch. It is It is It is That's the Friedrich Nietzsche That is the the impulse of evolution. Friedrich Nietzsche obviously the the the the famous uh Friedrich Nietzsche was a proponent of evolution, but he didn't like evolution by natural Because Darwinism, evolution by natural selection, has no purpose.

Right? It's purposeless. It's blind. didn't believe evolution was blind. He believed that evolution had a purpose. And the purpose of evolution was to bring forth the ubermensch. The superman, the superhuman in the earth. That's why I mean it feels like post World War II eugenics just went underground. And you see I don't know all this stuff coming out with the Epstein files, and it's weird, man.

It's It is enmeshed with the occult. Yeah, it feels enmeshed with the occult. It feels very transhumanist. I think the transhumanism stuff can be tricky. Like there are things like IVF, for example, or things that are like, you know, that's probably pretty positive, you know? Like modern medicine is good on the whole. >> Gene therapy. Gene therapy would be >> Gene therapy, you're taking So, you know, our genomes are are We have a what's called a mutational load in our genome, which

means that we're copies of copies of copies of copies of copies. And every time you make those copies, you get you get errors in the code, right? And some geneticists believe we're headed for error catastrophe, by the way, which means we can't reproduce That's That's a thing that's believed quietly by population geneticists, by the way. We're going to become reproductively inviable. Enter artificial wombs. So, So, the idea is that you get to a point where you're reproductively reproductively inviable because your

genome has broken down to such an extent that that you're dying you're dying of all kind We have tons and tons of genetic diseases. Um but I'm digressing into this I'm sorry, I cut you off. >> No, I mean, so that's it's clear to me that all of that is happening, and even the thought process of hey, this is healing versus this is extending our brains and, you know, turning us into some post-human thing. That thought process is not occurring among elite circles or whatever. It's

this reflexive desire for uh self-deification, for everlasting life, you know, all that. That's right. That's right. >> you said something else very interesting. You said that will coincide with the gods themselves returning. So, it'll all They'll also be this theological element to this. So, is in your prediction cuz I think the I think the prediction around elites doing transhumanist, you know, self-deification, I think that's safe. The other prediction of, you know,

the return of these beings in UFOs, would you put a lot of weight in that? Do you believe that that will happen in our lifetime? >> Oh, in our lifetime? Probably. Yeah. Yeah, I I I I I suspect. And by the way, to complete my thought, which I I rambled on, but I was going to tell you I was going to agree with you that there are certain technologies that I'm totally for. Gene therapy, the reason why I said that was because the human genome is so um so full of error and mutation that you have what we know to be the correct code

here, and if somebody's got a mutated gene, at least a cancer, at least all kind sickle cell anemia. So, if you go over here and you take that human gene that the right code and you plug it in to the equation, it it cures the disease, right? So, I'm all for that. I just want to make that clear. I'm not like a Luddite. I think you could take gene therapy human to human. The problem is when you're starting to either grab code snippets of code that aren't human, cross species genetics, or you're creating new code. And you're modifying the genome in ways

that are not uh natural to the to the genome, that are not indigenous to the human genome. So, just to draw that um that delineation as it pertains to these technologies. But, yeah, I believe that the you know, that some point So, here's where I see Of course, I could be completely wrong, okay? This is just rank speculation I think that we're headed for a Um twofold disaster. I think that we are headed for a natural

because we're due for one. The hour is now for cataclysm based on the zodiac, and we could talk about that later based on the the precession of the equinox and all of that. We are transitioning from one aeon into another, okay? And when that happens, that's a that's called a suntelia. Lasts for 1,000 years, and within those 1,000 cataclysm befalls like clockwork. going back and referencing what we're talking about with the priest of Sais explaining all of this to Solon of

That's a component over here. Cataclysm is coming. But, in conjunction with the cataclysm is you have the activity of gray aliens, which we were mentioning before. The appear to be a human alien hybrid species that is indistinguishable from us but is not us. A species that for all intents and purposes looks just like us, but they

the telepathic capabilities of the Grays. They can control us, in other And one of the most frightening things about one of the most alarming things about Jacobs' final book, Walking Among he documents abductees were telling him from their abduction episodes. In that he called this personal project hybrids. Are you familiar with that? The

personal project hybrids. So, he described this as personal project hybrids because the Grays have been trying to perfect a hybrid. And and this progression is evident in the in the abduction material because in the people were encountering abductees were encountering hybrids that were very imperfect. Their heads were too big, their hair was scraggly, their eyes were too big. They kind of look human, but they look too much like the Grays. They were too short. Um and as the years progressed, so did the program. And you were getting more refined

hybrids that looked more and more like until until lately, or at least when when Jacobs published his book, was it 2016, somewhere around there. he was reporting these the these advanced human-alien hybrids that he described he calls And they're so advanced that as I said before, they're indistinguishable from us, but they retain the telepathic capabilities of the Grays and they're completely

loyal. Their their allegiance is to the Grays, not to human beings. And and so, these advanced human-alien hybrids would be assigned, according to Jacobs, would be assigned to certain female abductees. So, you get these male they're they're assigned to female abductees. These These Jacobs called personal project hybrids because the female abductee, they would have to they would have to um tutor the hybrid and teach them about life on

Earth, teach them how to do mundane things, how to go into a grocery store and buy groceries without looking like a freak, how to just be out in public, how to drive a car, what a refrigerator is, what a TV is, just the the most basic things. And what's really frightening, I should use the word word alarming, what's really alarming is that these these hybrids, according to Jacobs, are psychopaths. these are like uh superhuman villains. They they they abuse these women

sexually, but also verbally. They completely manipulate and control them. They're very violent. They beat them in certain cases. These are really really evil people, these hybrids, according to the accounts from the from the uh abductees. They're very abusive, or at least some of them. And so, it makes you wonder, like what is the end game here? Well, David Jacobs said that the end game of the abduction program was planetary acquisition by

So, they integrate themselves into us. It's the opposite of the Borg from from Star Trek, right? The Star Trek In Star Trek, the Borg assimilate other factions into themselves, but the Grays integrate into our civilization, and it's a conquest by stealth. Mhm. And so, I think that elements of the United States government are aware of this. Mhm. And I think and certainly if you referencing Karla Turner's work, one thing that Karla was always talking about was the fact that some of these

were being would be abducted by gray and then when they were turned were turned to their homes, the military would show up. And and and then they would they would endure a mylar, a military abduction, which was often times much more violent. And the military, according to Turner and her husband got abducted by the way, uh Turner's husband, was abducted by elements of the military. They think they were brought on to Air Force bases in some cases, sometimes underground And they were interviewed and um

interviewed isn't a nice way to say it. They were What's the word? Uh >> Interrogated, thank you. They were in regard to what was happening on the alien vessel. What were the grays doing? They were trying to figure out what the grays were doing. And they're trying to use the abductees to to get insight into what the grays were doing. because I think there's panic had ensued by that time. I don't know what you think about this. I personally am persuaded that the gray alien contract was real,

that it actually happened. So this is this Eisenhower agreement that essentially in exchange for you know, some tactical advantage, maybe some help with you know, warfare, whatever, they would we would let the aliens do sort of medical experiments across the you know, the United States population. >> our citizenry. I So I don't know, but I if you look at the data, it seems like abduction sort of ramped up around that time, like mid-century. So it's it's

very interesting. >> They did. Uh and this is what um what I I think the some of these would would have concluded was that yes, there was a an increase in abductions. And the And the abduction phenomenon is exponential. Mhm. Because it's it's hereditary. So, And you know, Eisenhower's granddaughter is an abductee and is like all over this issue, which is really interesting. Laura, exactly.

alien abduction is hereditary. And so, if you're if your parents were abductees or one of your parents, then the you're you're also an abductee. It's hereditary. I found no exception to that rule. Mhm. Now, the reason why I'm so It runs in families. Yes, it's it's definitely hereditary. So, the reason why I'm so uh interested in this phenomenon is because I interact with a lot of abductees. They come to me. And they tell me their stories. And of course, I'm always aware of the fact that, you know, you got screen

memories in there. You got VR you know, VRs scenarios and so forth. And you sort of have to navigate circumvent some of that. But basically, and they're coming to me all the time. I'll probably get another wave of them after this interview. And they're all telling the same story Maybe there's some variation in there that I haven't picked up on, but from what I've seen, it's it's the same It's they're they're being abducted and they're being integrated into this breeding program forcibly. The men are

having their sperm taken. The women are are having um ova taken and then there's some sort of an in vitro fertilization with some exotic component. Then that's that's reinserted into the woman's womb or or an extrauterine womb, even if the woman doesn't have a womb, you know? Uh she had a hysterectomy. Is that what it's called? They take the womb out and then they the Grays create an artificial womb. Mhm. And and these women, they carry these babies, these hybrid fetuses, um for about 3 months, right before they

really start to show. And then they're they're they're abducted and the and the fetuses are taken out and put in gestation tanks. And this is the ongoing procedure. This is what's happening. And it's still happening. I know there's a narrative out there that alien abduction isn't happening anymore. Not as far as I can tell. I have a friend, by the way, who who I've known him for years. And I've always suspected that he and his kids were abductees. Mhm. Why do you suspect that? >> Because of various experiences and dreams dreams

>> Sure. things like that um uh things that were indi- indicative of alien abduction. And I never really I think I've asked him in the past if he thought he was an abductee and he never thought he was. But the other day this this last spring uh I was in my office working and he happened to be at my house. And and he came in in my office we're talking for a second and then he's walking out and he stopped and he said he turned around and he said I forgot to tell you. They came and got me.

>> And I was like, what do you mean? Who's they? Who came and got you? He said, the Grays. They came and got me. And and then he walked up to me, pulled up his sleeve, he said, look. And he had the typical the I don't know if you've ever seen this, the delta Yeah. >> little dots >> the dots, the delta formation that that a lot of abductees have. Yeah. Yeah. And it and it had been a a couple of weeks and it was fading, but it was clearly there. He said he said I had this wild experience at night. He was like, I was

sort of out of it and all this weird stuff and I woke up with that. And he's like, I I they came and got me. And it was just like a punch in my face. Like, you know, I'm constantly being reminded. Yeah. This thing is real and it's ongoing. And we were talking about the implants earlier, too. I think all abductees are implanted, by the way. Mhm. And so, anyway, so that's happening. And if and if Jacobs is correct, and I think he is, that the objective is planetary acquisition, that they're integrating these human alien hybrids indistinguishable from us into

human society, right? What's the end game there? Who knows? To direct civilization in a particular way. And elements of our government know about it, then that is a clear and present danger. I mean, that is it's like a sci-fi Yeah. movie. It's like a it's it's like a scenario that's that's it's ultra red alert. The human species is being usurped from within, right? And so, why do I bring that up? Remember I talked about the natural catastrophe

that's coming, the cataclysm, cyclic. We're due. We're within the We're in a Centelia right now. We can talk about that more if you want later about how we know that, but we're in a Centelia. Cataclysm is going to befall. Now, that's a thousand-year window. So, we don't know when exactly, but we're within the window. And then you have gray aliens doing what they're doing simultaneously. So, what do I think is going to happen? Mhm. I think somebody's going to show us to show up to deliver us. Mhm. >> From either one of these or both of them. Wow. And

that that group will be received as the gods returning to the earth. That these are the gods. Perhaps they'll say that they created us. They spliced our genome with Bigfoot or something or some hominid some some ancient hominid and and that they provided some of their own genetic material and they've been sort of guiding us through our evolution all of these centuries, all of these millennia. And in your view, that should be viewed as a deception. >> From my point of view, Yeah. this would be the group that the that the Bible identifies as as the man of

sin. Yep. The Antichrist, basically, presenting himself as the savior in place of Jesus was one of us or I am Jesus, that sort of a thing, and showing up to to deceive humanity. Of course, that's a uh specific point of view. It's a point of view coming from a biblical perspective, but I think, my god, I mean, the trajectory is certainly headed that

so in that in that what happens then is humanity is is And by the way, in the in the book of this figurehead, the beast is what the Revelation calls him, right? This the beast consolidates power on Earth, governmental power on Earth, and then he leads mankind into worship of the dragon. That's what happens. He leads mankind

into worship of the dragon. And so I think that the narrative that's is that these beings are going to show Wouldn't be surprised if they look like Contrast that with the greys. You know, here's the clear enemy who's We have no defense, by the way, against this enemy. They're far more advanced than we are. They're integrating themselves into our We have a natural disaster on the horizon. These beings show us to show up to deliver mankind from

from these disasters. They will be received as our extraterrestrial saviors, our progenitors, our Promethean benefactors. Mhm. And then, according to my perspective, they will lead humanity, post-humanity, really, lead humanity to the final stages of a post-human and then they will take the armies of Earth and and their faction to go to literally go to war with the king of heaven. Returning to the Earth. That's called Armageddon. Now, again,

I know that that may sound plausible to Christians, and it may sound utterly ridiculous to people who aren't Christians and people of different persuasions, but there is definitely a biblical case for what I just laid out. Yeah, fascinating. Speaking of evidence of Nephilim and this whole narrative, you're one of the few people I know who has gone deep on this phenomena of giants and giant bones and and mythology around giants, but I think maybe most

production company called Gen 6 Productions, and we were making a film series at the time called True Legends, which was focused primarily on giants, And looking for evidence of giants and and so forth. And in the midst of this, uh Steve was contacted by a an elderly woman who told him that her son had a story that he needed to hear, but her son did not want to come forward because he was still active duty. And she said, "You need to You My son has a story, you need to hear it." And she ultimately she was able to convince

her son to come to to tell Steve the story. So, he got in contact with Steve. I believe they went on Coast to Coast AM with George Noory. That's the first time they that that this individual's story was heard. And then subsequent to that, uh he we we we wanted to put him in our in our documentary series. And so, we flew him out to Bozeman, Montana, and we interviewed him, Steve and I. He showed us his CV, his credentials. He was active duty. He was a He was a um

a C-130 pilot, cargo pilot, and um and he told us a bunch of stuff about his background. He was a fascinating guy. Uh just a lot of um confirming data and just really demonstrating to us that he was who he said he was. And then we interviewed him. But he did He wanted to be interviewed in silhouette. Like he knew that, you know, his voice is already out there and people He understood people are going to be able to put the pieces together and find figure out who he was if they wanted to. But

in Afghanistan. And he would describe these missions as classified. And he would always often be called in to pick up high-valued assets. And he said usually these were like Taliban guys. so this was routine for him. And one day he's flying in there He said in 2005, Bagram Airfield. He lands on the tarmac. And I've been getting this detail wrong

for those who've been hearing me say Um I've been saying he he he disembarked from the plane and walked over to the hangar. That's not true. I double-checked the other day. Uh he He disembarks. He He He deplanes with his crew. And they're met on the tarmac by individuals he describes as the And he thinks that these are Air Force intelligence or Army intelligence, something like that. And they told him right away, he said, "I've never been met on the tarmac like this. I always go over to the hangar and get my cargo."

And they said, "This never happened. No pictures. Don't ever talk about it." And as they're standing there, as he's standing there with the babysitters, he sees a a um a um forklift bringing over a a crate, a huge crate, one of the in in in an air an air cargo pallet, which are, you know, I think they're 14 ft I think I got that right. No, no, no, not 14. There's There's They're 9 ft long. Somebody will correct me. They're

9 ft long by something, 7 by 9 I think is what they're They're larger than like the pallets at Home Depot, and they're heavier. You know, there there's dunnage under them and they're heavy. And so, it's a 9-ft long pallet, and there's something on it. And it's Whatever's on it is covered with a tarp. And he said the first thing that hit him was the odor. It was this pungent odor of like BO and And it was He said it was like unlike anything he's he's ever encountered.

And then as they put this thing down on the ground so it can be weighed and loaded into the aircraft, he realized that that the tarp wasn't covering the whole thing, that parts of this thing were hanging out, and it was apparent that it was a really, really big dude. In his words. but it was not a normal person because it was in the fetal position, and it was it was hanging off the pallet in the fetal position, 9-ft long pallet hanging off the pallet. Part of its head was You could see part

of its head. You could see its hands and its feet hanging off the pallet, and they weren't covered by the tarp. And he said that the the hair of this being was red, the skin was pale, He said it had six fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot. And the feet were wrapped in a very canvas type wrapping. And he said he and the guys that were standing around the body were actually taking their boots and putting it up to the foot.

And he said it was, you know, twice as big as every twice three times bigger than everybody's boot. I mean, the feet were an enormous. They're all putting their feet up to the foot. And and he said this thing was solid as a rock. He would He was They were all kind of tapping it on the top. And he said it was like a brick. I mean, this thing was just like solid muscle. He said it could have been some rigor mortis or whatever, but but I mean, it was apparent from what you could see of this dude that he was he was a brick house. So, How tall? So, the pallet was 9 ft long and he's in the fetal position. So, they

estimated his size at 10 to 12 ft tall. They weighed the giant They weighed this being because they had to weigh it the load master the weight before they put it on the C-130. He weighed The whole thing weighed I think they told me and I could be wrong, but I think it was 1,500 lb and then when you subtract all the dunnage and the pallet and whatever I know that the final weight was 1,100 lb. The final weight was 1,100 And then he told me for sure. He said that the weight was a This thing weighed 1,100 lb. And so, you can imagine,

let's say it was 12 ft tall, 1,100 lb. uh I mean, I mean, this thing weighs more than a like a Kodiak bear. I mean, it's massive massive guy. And then, you know, he was asking about the the body like How did you Where did you guys get this thing? And and they told him that they had heard They They didn't know They didn't have first hand They heard that a group of guys got lost somewhere out in Afghanistan that this this this group was out there this these military guys were out there

doing something, recon or something like that, and they they weren't reporting back in. So, they sent out another group to look for them. Another team went out to look for that that first team. And when that second team found them, they found them either at the mouth of a cave or in a cave, I can't remember where, but it was in the vicinity of a they were all dead. And and this gigantic humanoid was eating on one of them. And it and and they were able to kill it. They were able to take it down.

So, I mean, the thing it And And from what I He said that it was it was it took a lot of firepower to take him down. Jesus. Did he sound kind of traumatized as he's telling you? >> No. No. No. He sounded very fascinated, like, this crazy thing happened, here's what happened. He wasn't traumatized because he didn't, you know, he wasn't involved in the interaction with with giant when it was alive, and he didn't know if the story of it eating on guys was true. Sure. So, that's just what they had heard. So, he's like, "I can't confirm that, but this is what they told >> Still, even seeing the thing, it's like, [ __ ] That's pretty crazy. Yeah. Yeah.

Since conducting that interview with with the pilot in subsequent years, I've been able to confirm that story by several sources, or have that story confirmed by several sources, and and I have to be very careful cuz I want to protect these guys. Um and I should say before I get into that that my my colleague who I referenced earlier, L.A. Marzulli, he had a guy come to him. this is important because this was confirmation of the story that we had heard from our pilot. L.A. Marzulli had a guy come to him, a

different guy. I think he was a special ops guy from I don't remember what what branch, but but he told L.A. Marzulli a very similar story about the Kandahar giant. We don't know if it was the same giant or if it was a different one, but in but in that story, they said it was 2003 as opposed to 2005. Maybe our pilot remembered the date wrong, I don't know, or maybe they were remembering the date But in their story,

very very similar, a team went a team went missing, another team was dispatched to find it. They encountered this giant in a cave, and in that story, the giant skewered one of the guys with a spear. And but but apart from that, all the details are pretty much the same. Uh so, we don't know. L.A. and L.A. and I don't know if if it's the same story or if these are two separate stories. Well, if there's one giant out there, Well, well, after after L.A. told that

story publicly, he put it in a film, and after he went public with it, our pilot got got a hold of us again. He He contacted Steve Quayle. And he told Steve, and then he told me he knows that the the other story is true because he purposely withheld certain details from the story so that if somebody comes forward trying to add additional information, he could vet whether or not they're telling the truth. And he said, "That guy's telling the

truth." Well. So, that was kind of a confirmation from our guy that L.A. Marzulli's guy was telling the truth. Now, apart from that, I've been interactive with a handful of people. Um some that have confirmed to me that A, that story is true, and B, there are even wilder stories. And there are more giants out there than just one, obviously.

Um and and then also that this is one of the that this is this topic is one of the most highly classified, dangerous topics to Why do you think it's so dangerous? Like my I almost suspect it's more dangerous than UFOs and crash retrievals because it's confirmation somewhat, maybe, of an origin story of humankind. Like it really breaks Darwin

unless you come up with some other reason as to why these giants exist. Evolution of primitive to progress, apes to mankind is kind of broken by this. Like where the giants come from? There are some for evolution by natural selection, but not too many. I mean, they could just say that this was a divergent Homo sapiens species that branched off of what a So, they could just add another branch of the tree, so to speak. Other people think that the reason why this is

such a touchy subject and apparently very highly classified, the existence of both in a in an ancient context and in a contemporary context, is because it affirms the biblical narrative. Al- And And although that's true, I don't think that's it either because it doesn't just affirm the biblical narrative, like we were saying earlier, it affirms the ubiquitous testimony of our antecedents from the ancient world in general. I mean, everybody had mythologies of giants. The Egyptians did, the Mesopotamians did, the Greeks, the

Romans, the the the Polynesians, everybody. The Inca, the Aztec, everybody. It would explain a lot of this megalithic architecture. >> Yeah. Well, potentially, yeah. The North American Indians had legends of giants. Six-fingered, red-haired giants, by the way. Yeah. Yeah, you've done some great videos on that. >> Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean, the giants were being unearthed by the Smithsoni- Smithsonian Institution in the mounds of America. Right during that time what we were talking about, the spiritualism and and and and the the the um

uh airship phenom- the mystery airship phenomenon right in that time were unearthing the bones of giants uh out from the mounds, from within the mounds, the Indian mounds. >> hide if you're the Smithsonian, you're the Air Force, why hide this stuff? >> So, I've been I I I have my own theory here, and it it may or may not be true, I have a feeling that really what's behind this, what's behind the secrecy, is the occult. Because if you know anything about the legends of giants, you'll find out really quickly that

there was a cult of giants in the ancient world, especially among the Canaanites, but not exclusive to the And there were some things that were known about the giants. For example, it was known that the giants, in some cases it was believed that they could be resurrected. In other cases, it was it was believed that and almost universally, actually, that the spirits of the giants could be contacted. Remember I said in the Book of Enoch that when this when the giants were killed that their spirits departed their bodies and that they persisted in

the world as vagabond wraiths, right? So those So those are the demons of the New Testament. And and so those spirits are in the world and occult practitioners believe that they can make contact with those spirits either to harness their power or to extract information from them to attempt to control them or maybe maybe because they're looking for to possess themselves or other people, I don't know. I don't know. But there's definitely in the ancient context there

was a cult of giants. in fact uh in in the areas where biblically speaking we know there were giants and then archaeologically speaking I would say we know there were giants such as the island of Sardinia. You have and also Menorca, the island of Menorca in Spain, you have a lot in fact all much of the world you have dolmens. You have dolmens which are these sort of freestanding large stones, megalithic stones. Often times they're shaped like

um almost like a little house you know, with like three walls and a big slab of stone on top. Various configurations of dolmens. Some of them are quite large. Many of them and I believe that the dolmens are associated with the giants. Not just because they're large stones, but they're associated with the cult of And this is this is this is what I would describe as as Canaanite or Canaanitic sorcery. More Canaanite necromancy.

Because necromancy is the it's it is the let's call it the dark art of trying to contact the dead or resurrect the dead. this is definite this was definitely a belief in Canaan among the Canaanites. We know because there are Ugaritic texts that have been discovered that have that have summoning rights that are summoning dead Nephilim.

In other words, it's like a it's like a an attempt to resurrect either resurrect dead Nephilim, reembody them, or contact their spirits. >> It's like a golem or something. Yeah. >> Like the myth. Right. And Wow. And And but but before I forget, there's a little bit of a there's a little bit of a crossover here with the Epstein stuff that you mentioned earlier. it's apparent that the some of the elite some of our ruling elite are obsessed with with Baal. Mhm. And Baal was a

Canaanite deity, right? >> Mhm. And so you have this Canaanitish cult Mhm. that's still being perpetuated among the elite. And part of that Canaanitish cult, at least in ancient Canaan, was the cult of giants. So, if you go to the island of Sardinia today, for example, you will find many many megalithic structures that are still standing. Those are called uh uh Nuraghe towers. they're they're circular stone towers

and they're they're pretty impressive, although they're crude. This is This is Cyclopean architecture, which is large stones fit together without the use of any binding agent like mortar. And at the top of these towers, some of them are over 100 ft tall. And there were over 30,000 of these things on the island of Sardinia. Over 30,000. At the top of some of these towers were megalithic basalt stones that were cut. So, you you do have some some more of the monumental architecture incorporated at the top of the towers, whereas the

rest of the tower is pretty crude. But big stones nevertheless, in the Cyclopean style, but associated with these towers are what are called the tombs of the giants. To this day, they're called the tombs of the giants on the island of Sardinia. I visited I've been to Sardinia a few times and I visited many of the both the towers and the tombs. And the tombs are configured in the shape of a womb. Now, I used to think that it was a bull's head because of

and Baal and it was clearly a Canaanitish the the the ancient culture that they that they attribute these towers and these tombs to is called the Nuragic people, the Nuragic culture. But the Nuragic culture, it's clear were Canaanitish for sure. That's that culture was Canaanitish. Their uh their that that we know that they at the very least we know that the Phoenicians inhabited that island for some time. And the Phoenicians

were descended from the Canaanites and had continued on many of their rights, including according to the Romans, they sacrificed their children to Molech. Uh and that's part of the reason ostensibly why they why the Romans detested them. I didn't know that. So, the So, these practices sacrifice of children was practiced widely by the Canaanites and and also by the Phoenicians. The The Canaanites the the the Greeks called the Canaanites Phoenicians. Mhm. And and so you had the that specifically

the inhabitants of of Tyre, Sidon, and Byblos were Phoenician. And they were Canaanites. So, but then there were other Canaanite tribes, right? And in the Old Testament among these Canaanites were literal were literal tribes of giants, clans of giants, mostly inhabiting the high And these are the giants that Joshua uh encountered during the conquest. So, I think my And I'm going to get back to the occult thing here. I think that drove out a lot of the

giants that weren't killed in the They went They went over the Mediterranean, across the Mediterranean, and many of them reestablished themselves on the island of Sardinia. That's my guess. That's uh a conjecture of mine. >> Are the tombs extremely large there or Yes, and I'll get to get back to the tombs in a sec in a second. So, this migration, this forced migration, this eviction of giants out of the promised land, documented in the biblical text,

is evidenced in the fact that there was a I forget who recorded this, uh one of the Greek historians, that there was in in Tunisia, there was a column that had a an and the inscription read, um "We are I'm trying to remember that I just lost We are the Canaanites. I can't re- I can't remember the the inscription. You'll have to edit that

out. I can't remember the inscription. I'm trying to remember it. It it I had it in my brain for a second. But, basically, this inscription says that they were the descendants of the Canaanite who fled before the face of Joshua, the son of Nun. Mhm. >> Okay, yeah, yeah. And the inscription read, "We are the Canaanites who fled before the face of Joshua, the son of Nun." Wow. And so, the Canaanites, obviously, were evicted from the land of Canaan. And I think they coalesced on the island

of Sardinia. And so, now you have massive megalithic towers, and you have massive megalithic tombs. Again, to this day known as the tombs of the giants. And initially, as I said, I thought that the Could are the tombs for like a 10-ft plus body or Okay, so I'll describe the tomb and then I'll and then we'll talk about a controversy regarding them and and and and and how large they are. So, the tombs are shaped generally speaking like a bull's head,

right? Like like the Chicago Bulls logo. Generally speaking shaped like a bull's head. So, I had thought initially that because this is a Canaanite-ish culture that these these tombs are shaped the bull's head, which is a very figure among the Canaanites, sometimes representing Molech or or Baal, right? And and so I had assumed that that this was the configuration. I was wrong. The tombs are actually shaped like They're shaped like a a uterus. Mhm.

Which is if you look at it like if you pull it up on on on Google Images, it's shaped like it looks like a bull's head kind of. So, it's got like the two arms and then this curved portion on the bottom. And that's how all the tombs are shaped in Sardinia. Now, there's two types of One of them has a trilithon entry, a trilithon doorway, which means it's like megalithic stones that are stacked like a basically like uh like a doorway, right? And then the other configuration is a large megalithic stone that's like a

stele with a with a little doggy door in it the bottom. Just like a little door that you and I couldn't fit through. But, a young person could. Like a 12-year-old or something like 13-year-old could could squeeze into the they're as I keep saying, I'm not inventing the word tomb of the giants. That's what they're called since time immemorial. They were called the tombs of the giants and the locals believe that that giants were buried in them, in the vicinity of them, or

more importantly, beneath them. So, the contention is by armchair archaeologists that the bodies of giants can't fit in the tombs. Well, first of all, that wasn't the purpose of the tomb. The purpose wasn't to put the body inside. I'll explain that in a minute. But, even if it were, I went to Sardinia with a tape measure. And yes, you can fit the bodies of giants in those tombs. >> if that was the purpose, you could fit a 10-ft tall dude in there. I And I'm estimating a guy that's, you know,

three times my width, like laying on the ground, just imagining somebody three times my width, you know, two, three times my height. Yes, you can. You can >> locals think that the giants were buried there. There is mythology local to the >> They're They're associated with the so, I learned when I was in Sardinia that the tombs actually were are configured the way that they're configured with the in the shape of a with a door, one with a trilithon door that you and I could get into, but we'd have to stoop down, right? But, the other one, the little door, we could we

couldn't squeeze into it. I learned those tombs, it's known to the archaeological community, were configured in such a way so that they could accommodate what's called the right of incubation or a right of incubation. Mhm. What is the right of incubation? It was a it was a right of passage ceremony. So, when young people were adults, and back then, the ancient world, I mean, you were an adult when you're like 12 years old, right? 12, 13, 14 years old, you're you're you're being initiated into

Getting married at 14, 15, 16 in the ancient world, right? So, uh they were they were they were the right of incubation is a right of in which the young person would squeeze into the either that little doggy door in the stele, the one configuration, or they would be sealed in with a door with a stone into the other configuration. Both of them shaped in the Both of them configured in the shape of the a womb. So, what you have is a gallery inside the tomb. And both of them it's it's a quite a large gallery.

in in in in the in the tomb with the trilithon doorway, you can stand up and it walk around. They're very large inside. Um and there's a little bench built into it. And you could see where maybe you could put some candles or whatever. And the idea was that the young person, as part of this rite of passage, would incubate in the tomb in order to commune and to absorb the power, the prowess of the mighty one buried beneath the

>> Right? So, this is like you can think of this as a like a resurrection tomb? Somehow were you communicating with the beings, the dead giants, their spirits Remember, the mythology of the ancient world, not just the Jews, was that the spirits of dead giants persisted in the world as demons. >> Mhm. So, you could commune with their if you have their bodies, maybe you can commune with their reach out to their spirits, commune with them, and be inhabited by them, or just gain information so that

imagine, you know, the Gadarene Demoniac that we talked about earlier was so was so energized, demonically energized, that he that they would chain him up in the tombs because he would scream. He was wild. He was feral. And he was so demonically energized that he would break the chains. So, you're talking about super human That's pretty useful if you're like a warrior society, right? You want to field some berserkers, some demon-possessed berserkers. That's a very useful technology, so to speak, to

field on an ancient battlefield. These demonized berserkers. That's one possibility that they were trying to to um to become infused, inhabited, by demonic spirits. But but also maybe just to commune with the with the mighty ones who would who would died and gone before them. But that's they were incubating. And they were sealed in there for a period of time. This is wild. Have we >> wilder. Just keep going. How does it get wilder? >> Do you remember um the WikiLeaks emails? Yeah, of

>> Remember there was allegedly an email that was a correspondence with Hillary Clinton where she was inquiring about the resurrection tomb and body of >> That's right. And Gilgamesh was a giant. >> Yes. So >> Oh, so this >> So this connects back to the occult stuff. So what do I think is behind the cover-up of giants? I think the occult is behind the cover-up of giants. The Epstein-type ball-worshipping cult who are literally attempting to either demonize themselves or others or make contact with these spirits of dead

giants, harness them, get gather information from them. If they come If the antediluvian world was technologically advanced, there's a lot of information, practical, functional information that you could gain by interacting with these ancient beings. >> Yes. Do Have we ever found giant bones? Okay, so that gets That's a That's a whole conversation in and of itself. So on the island of Sardinia, again, I I was there three times and I interviewed a lot of people. Yeah. And I put all

this in a film. It was in a one of those True Legends documentaries that I mentioned earlier that I I I produced with Steve Quayle. I interviewed dozens of people in who who had dug up the bones of giants themselves with their hands. >> Wow. And now, the common contention here is that these were the bones of giants, sloths, and mastodons, and other But the problem is that the reason why the Sardinians at that time, we're talking about the '30s,

you know, '50s, '60s, back in that era, the reason why, and these are all elderly I talked to, the reason why they were actively looking for, or if they were plowing in their field, they would you know be they'd have a horse-drawn plow at the plow at the time. Plowing in the field, they they they kick up a some skeletal remains, right? Of a large, let's say a full forearm and hand, fingers. The reason why they would they would would be excited about this is because often times, more often than not, they would find jewelry

associated with the remains. Rings on the fingers, necklaces, different pieces of jewelry that were just jumbled in with the bones or sometimes still on them. And and I heard this from a lot of people in Sardinia, the elderly people who still remember it. And I interviewed a couple of gentlemen who excavated at the site called Anastasia at the at the church of Anastasius, a Catholic little Catholic And the church was planted on top of a of a

of a Nuragic archaeological site. And they decided to do an excavation of the site. And these individuals excavated I'm probably going to get the dates wrong here. I want to say one of them excavated from like 78 to 79, and then the other one excavated from like 80 to 81. In that range, right? They both excavated at the same site, and they both I interviewed them separately, and they both told me the same story. They were hired by the to go in to go to the grounds of the

church of Anastasia and start to remove uh take apart the ruins and remove the artifacts. And and both of them the the uh the procedure was all of the artifacts that came out of the site went into the church. They put tables they set up tables in the church. I went to the church of Sant'Anastasia. And it's just this little chapel, and they put tables they set tables up inside the church. And then they would take the artifacts, all kinds of artifacts, gold and silver and all kinds

of artifacts and goblets and plates and and the bones of giants would come out of the the site and they would put them in the in the church. They found entire skeletons of giants. What? Entire skeletons. Both of them I could give you just a ton of examples here, but I remember one there's a couple of examples that jump out. in one day of working one of these gentlemen found three they found three skeletons of a giant. You know, they

they reassembled it. They they they they they extracted the pieces and parts and then they they reassembled it in the they were told to to to lay out the bones next to the church. As opposed to usually everything went inside the church, but in this particular occasion he laid out three skeletal remains of giants. And he said, so the procedure was I know sort of tying this in a in a confusing knot here, but the procedure was the artifacts go in the church and then overnight somebody came to take

them all away. And then when they would come back in the morning everything's And they would just that was how they proceeded. But on this occasion this guy was told to lay these bodies out in the next to the church in the yard. So he laid them out three bodies. They were at least 9 ft tall Next day they were gone. In another occasion Who takes these? Well, that individual told me that he knows that that some of those artifacts were were recovered were were retrieved by

certain individuals who were associated with the University of Cagliari. The capital city in Sardinia is called Cagliari. The University of Cagliari he knows that there was some certain professors or somebody associated he told me the name who who communicated with him about what to do with some of these artifacts including the bodies of Did you contact that professor? Uh I couldn't find him. So, then the other the other individual he he told me there's dozens of stories from both of these guys. He told me that he was excavating

one day and he had his wife with him and they found a skull that was so big and he said the vertebrae was still attached to part of it cuz these were very well preserved. When I say skeletal remains, I'm not talking about bleached bones. I'm talking about like bodies that are really well preserved. Not not like not exactly like mummies, but like some of them have sinew. Some of them still have like they're not just skeletons. And he said this this he he he unearthed this gigantic skull. It was so large

that he and his wife had to carry it And they brought it into the church. Then he said there was another day he was I'm just skipping over a bunch of other ones by the way. But he said he was excavating and at the site and and they were excavating a new and a one of those towers, one of those Nuraghe towers. And he they they unsealed the chamber. Like it was it it was almost like hermetically sealed because what it looks like had happened to these is they were suddenly submerged they

were suddenly covered in earth. Almost like a tidal wave had swept across the island and deposited all of this all of this soil over the towers and buried them. Wow. And in fact, that's true because I saw I saw so keep in mind some of these towers are are very tall. Some of them are up to 100 ft, but they've since crumbled, right? But they're still pretty tall. if you look at the the towers before they were discovered they just look like hills.

They just look like hills of dirt, right? And then they dig into them and then it's one of these towers. And they're all over the place still out there. All over the place. >> What does anybody have photos or video of the bones or >> So, no. So, we're keep in mind this is back in the late 70s, early 80s. >> Yeah. And they were told not to take any pictures and never to talk about it. Mhm. Again, two individuals >> of these witnesses came out in your documentary like Well, this particular case, two. But of other cases, dozens. >> Okay, wow.

And so, they unsealed this one this this tower that was buried. Remember, let's say this thing is buried suddenly, right? Let's say you've got somebody living inside of this thing. Tidal wave hits. Carries a mountain of of soot, dirt, deposits it suddenly over one of these towers. Hermetically sealed. >> So, whatever's in this thing is sealed inside, right? And going to be well preserved. So, um he they opened up one of these chambers and he said he walked they walked into the chamber

with flashlights. And there was a giant seated at a table. And he was dead. What? >> And he was just slumped over. And and he they said that there the everything was gigantic, he said. The table was gigantic. There was a gigantic plate and goblet on the table. And the plate still had like oysters on it. What? Yeah. And the giant had been eating oysters. And there's a giant goblet on the table. And probably 9, 10, 11 ft tall, maybe 12 ft tall. He's

somewhere in that range as most of these giants are in that range, between between 9 and 12 ft tall. >> by that? >> I think it did start to decay immediately as soon as they like it was started to crumble. >> So, it was like somehow sealed from oxygen. It was hermetically sealed. >> was just buried suddenly, probably. >> blue. [ __ ] So, at least this is what they said. They you know, this is what they're telling me. So, and I didn't pay these guys or anything like that. Yeah. But there was nothing like that. So, they they they took the body of this

giant, they carried it out together, and laid it in the church. Wow. >> It was very very well preserved. And then they took the goblet and the plate and I mean, they found all they found earrings, they found all kinds of things, jewelry, all kinds of stuff at this one site. >> Mhm. In Santa Anastasia in Sardinia. Apart from that, I interviewed lots of other people who found the remains of giants all over the place in the countryside. Wow. One guy said that um Do you think we'll get concrete evidence

of this in our lifetime? >> I don't know. I don't know. This one guy said uh >> Cuz if if this is this prevalent, I would expect that. And I would hope that we do. Well, like I said, I think the occult's at the center of this thing, so I'm not sure. Right. >> Um but >> same thing with the UFO stuff, where it's like it always disappea- always slips through your fingers. Very Are these Baal-worshipping pedophiles ever going to go to jail? Right. Yeah. So, Yeah. Yeah, no one apparently visited the island. Yeah. Yeah, everyone was on the emails, but no one actually or yeah. >> if I see a bunch of pedos go to jail,

then I'll have more hope that we're going to learn the truth about giants. So, just to give you one more illustration here. I talked to a guy who was 101 years old when I interviewed him. Wow. He was still very spry, very uh spunky, funny guy. It's a blaze out there, right? There's a like centenarians. >> is this this some of the longest-lived people in the world, the island of Sardinia. Yeah. So, he told us >> Maybe it's the giant DNA. >> Maybe it is. Well, actually, they say some of them that they were descended from giants. Wow. And and on the island of Sardinia, you do have an unusual

pop- a portion of the population with red hair. Mhm. Uh so, which seems to be a trademark of of these Nephilimic tribes. So, And and didn't uh Cain and literally had red hair, I believe, right? >> Who? Was it uh or maybe it was uh Esau I red hair. Esau, okay. Esau was like a hairy ape. Red hairy ape. Yeah. So, um And that's not related to this. >> It is kind of. Kind of. So, but just to give you another illustration here. I talked to this guy, 101 years old, can't remember his name.

It just came into my head and then and then departed. But, it was a lot of fun talking to him. And of course, I had a translator with me, Anna Tuveri. So, Anna, if you're watching, shout out to Anna Tuveri. She was born in Rome, a native Italian speaker. Actually, I believe someone from her family was from Sardinia. Oh, wow. And so, she was with me as my translator and we interviewed this gentleman and he um he told us some wild stories. One of the stories he told me was one time he was working in a field when he was a young man. So, this was I mean, he's 101 years

old. I don't know what what year that would have been. He told us, I can't remember. Uh I think it was like 1920s, 1930s, something like that. and he's working in this field because this the owner of the field wanted to plant a vineyard. So, they were tilling. Getting ready to plant a vineyard. And this field was in the vicinity of one of those towers, right? One of those Nuragic towers. And they're plowing and as there's a bunch of guys out there and they're they're they're they're tearing up the the soil and suddenly they start

the the the remains of gigantic people. And he said they were all starting to shout to each other in a big commotion because they were all sort of simultaneously starting to unearth like this graveyard. And he said all of the bodies were positioned like this, two by two in a cross configuration. So, like that, all the bodies. And there were dozens of them. And he said they were gigantic. So, when people say that in Sardinia, they mean 9, 10, 11, 12 And they were clearly humans that had been buried there intentionally. It's a graveyard. And as they're digging this

up, the owner of the field says, "Stop, stop, stop. I got to call this in. Got to call the coroner or whatever." And so, he made a phone call to whoever the university. I don't know who he called. And then he came back and he "Everybody has to vacate this area. We all have to leave." He said, "I've been told they're going to come get the remains. They want us out of here. So, we have to go." Well, uh this gentleman I was interviewing, he was very funny. He said He said, "Well, I really needed the

money and I wanted to make this guy pay me a day's wage, not a half of day's wage. So, I stayed." He said, "I'm I My plan was to just stay and work and then say, 'Hey, I just stayed. I worked the whole day.' So, so you get a day's And but what happened was as he's in the midst of working by himself now, right? He said "These vans pulled up. A bunch of vans pulled up and people started These people started getting out of the vans with with the equipment and he hid. He went and hid himself like in the in the bushes or something. And he watched them come out

of the vans, take pictures of all of the the the remains that were in the cross configuration, gather up all the remains, load them into the vans. Then he said they went into the tower and they were examining the tower, taking pictures of the tower. And he said there was like this In that tower, there was like um some kind of like a passageway that went down and maybe was obstructed. They sealed it up. I think he said they they put some stuff and sent cemented over it.

And then they left." So strange. >> these are the kind of stories I heard one after another. And don't you also have a story of being at a function, you see this kind of high-up Air Force officer, and you mention the Kandahar 2003 or 2005 kind of giant and you know, confrontation. And then who is this wife says like Yeah, I don't want to I don't want to I got to be really careful with that story cuz that that I don't want to get that guy in trouble. But yeah, let's

just put it this way. Let's let me be very vague. I've had interactions Yeah. with people where we could talk about like UFOs, underground bases, and they'll whisper, you know, and tell you a little bit of what they know. But, when you bring up giants one of them literally went like this to Like that's crazy. >> And um and and then I had a friend of mine who uh I told him I I told him some of these stories, right? And um

he said uh he said that he was with a a friend of his who happened to be and I got to be careful here, too. But, he was with let's let's let me be very vague. Uh he was with I don't want to get anybody in trouble. Sure. I talk a lot and I got to make sure I'm I'm not Yeah, yeah, yeah. saying things that like burn any sources. So um he was with this individual who's associated with the the government with somebody from the government. And they're just having a casual conversation. He said uh uh they're really good friends, having

this casual conversation, and and he had just been with me, this guy the the this the my my friend who's talking to his government buddy. He had just been with me and I we're talking like we're talking right now. We were talking like we're talking right now and and and and he cuz he was like, "Whoa, that's crazy. I can't believe that." I was like, "Well, listen, man, bring it up. See what happens." Bring this topic up to people who you think might know something. Watch what happens. So, he did. He brought it up with this And he said he asked me. He said, "Hey, do you know anything about like the this Tiahuanaco giant thing?" And he said

this person who's his friend just totally switched. Yeah. And said Well, I'm trying to think what he told him. He said something like "What the hell are you getting yourself "What are you What are you getting What are you getting yourself into? >> Whoa. You need to be careful." >> "You need to be careful." Like just turn just just casual fun conversation just turned into like this very serious warning. I don't know what you're getting yourself into, but you

need to be careful. is what he was saying. And then he called me. Woah. And he said he told me, "Dude, I" He said he said, "Man, I I didn't know what to think after you talked to me, but man, I I brought this up and just like you said, he changed on a dime and warned me." So, you know, I have a lot of little anecdotal things like that. You know? >> That's so And people accuse me all the time of, you know, the trust me, bro stuff. I get it. Look, these are stories, okay? Well, I you know, I'll I'll hit you with the story of mine, which is before we even met and, you know, maybe I was vaguely aware of your

work, but this was years ago. I had a friend who's kind of uh you know, prominent in like or semi-prominent on like Twitter and like tech circles and stuff. He's like not into any of this like ancient civilization UFO stuff, really. I mean, like maybe is somewhat partial to it now, but like is you know, has been dragged into it by the fact that the narrative has changed so much in the last 5-6 years. uh we're at like a conference or something and he's telling me about uh his buddy who is special forces and he's

like, "You got to you know, um you come to New York, get dinner with me and uh this guy. Uh he's special forces and he claims to have or his troop or whatever is you know, uh um the core he was with claims to have this giant in in the caves of Afghanistan. And so this was like totally independent of anything having to do with you. And uh and so I have to do that. Cuz honestly, at the time I was like, "That's insane. What is this

crap?" Like I mean, I was at the time you know, UFO stuff was so still like kind of integrating in my mind and I was like, "This is This is really crazy. Like what the hell?" But uh so another independent source. Yeah. And I don't know, you know, it's pretty sure I could be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure that I saw something that looked like an official like press release from the Pentagon saying the Kandahar giant story is not true. Like Oh, that's funny. They commented. Yeah, it seems like they've

uh they've they've explicitly wanted the public to know that this story isn't So, again, why all the secrecy? Like what's the big deal? So, giants existed. You know, we know that giants existed. In America, the Native Americans had the had the legends of the red-haired the as I said earlier, their bones are being discovered on record. Yeah. In the Smithsonian Institution's own annual you have you have evidence of of very

unusual skeletal remains, many of which were very large, uh which which were were the remains of And where did those go? Yeah. Where did those go? You have you have uh Abraham who's waxing poetically about Niagara Falls in a speech in which he says, "The eyes of that ancient species of giants whose bones fill the mounds of America have gazed upon Niagara as ours do now." That's wild.

>> Abraham Lincoln. So, is he referencing something something that nobody would understand what he's saying? Of course not. He's referencing something that everybody knew to be true. The the bones of that ancient species of giants Mhm. whose whose or or the eyes of that ancient species of giants whose bones fill the mounds of America. Mhm. uh I it's it is bizarre. It is bizarre when you can talk to guys about UFOs all day long, you know, government types, but they won't say a thing about giants.

Yeah, not only will they not say a thing, they freak out. They get visibly, you know, concerned. >> Yep. It's so strange. >> Again, I would I would say that there's something uh if I can use the term Epsteinish Epsteinian Epsteinian >> about this whole thing with the giants and the ball and the and the and the occult. Well, yeah, that's that I mean you that you want one of the deeper threads on the Epstein stuff, it's like why is he showing up in emails saying I killed Ponds from Ponds and Fleischman

like cold fusion which is clean limitless energy. He's saying he you know Robert Maxwell Ghislaine's you know super spy father who was He was buried on the Mount of Olives, I believe. Interesting. Well, there you go. Yeah, MI6 Mossad you know all these basically like helped invent peer review scientific peer review was also in charge of Nazi tech transfer which is really I think an important fact. And then you have Epstein telling Bannon in an interview that he

moved Zora Ranch to where it was or moved Zora Ranch because it was near retiring Los Alamos physicists. And then he's he's showing up and he says he's killing cold fusion and he's obsessed with anti-gravity. So, you end up like with the bones of the giants or with the UFOs or with all these things you end up with really like this weird like there's almost like a cult of science like an like a uh cuz there's so much circumstantial evidence. There's so much. And then there's very little concrete evidence in the way of like

really good high-res photography. And then there's always some muddling of the good you know when there is good evidence. We talked about photographs that have negatives. We talked about the videos. We talked about implants. We've talked about material. Like there are all these things. But then there's always a muddying of the water. So, you get into this really weird ontological territory where there is literally a on Earth that wants to hide uh breakthrough technology and wants to hide breakthroughs as far as our own

ancient discovery, you know, the like understanding our past and wants to keep us in this state of amnesia. Are these the adepts of the mystery Maybe. Maybe. >> know. I don't know the answer to >> know, but there's a lot of weird symbology on Epstein's >> Not coincidental that that ball comes up. Canaanite I mean the the the the the Canaanite god the as I said the cover-up of giants crossover with the UFO stuff and you throw into the mix that just the the

rank occultists like Aleister Crowley and Jack Parsons and Right. And and Crowley's another guy who had an alien being sort of seemed to show up and >> Yeah, the lamb thing. >> thing, yeah. that he conjured. Yeah, so there's a lot of crossover here. Yeah. Is the Is any of that cuz like you know, I mostly I associate the occult with like left-hand path, pursuit of power via paranormal channels in a way that is a Faustian bargain and kind of blows up in your face if you do it, but maybe it

confers power for a temporary period of And then I also think of like the founding fathers of America all being Freemasons and like I'm interested in the Templar. I think they're interesting, you know, I don't think this is all like I I I I often find myself caught between the people who are like, "It's all demonic." and then these other people who are like, you know, uh obsessed with it for very dark >> sure that within within some of these like for example, Freemasons is a great most Freemasons, certainly the ones that

I know Yeah. are just good old boys. They don't know nothing about anything >> That's I mean now if you're Freemason, you don't know [ __ ] Yeah. Yeah, yeah, so maybe back then I'm sure it was much more intense, you know. I think Francis Bacon who was who was who was the author of the colonization scheme. Uh I didn't know that. um He knew some stuff. He read like the New Atlantis.

And some people think that Jesus himself was part of that So there's a Martin Luther King Jr. actually wrote a book or sorry, an essay called the Pagan Continuity Hypothesis. And then you have people like Brad Meltzer who writes, you know, The Immortality Key. And Elaine Pagels is Princeton religious studies professor. And a lot of these people sort of hint at the idea that the Last Supper was itself a mystery ritual that had some, you know, continuity between the Eleusinian mystery rituals and whatever he underwent. I have no idea if

that's true. I I personally would reject any notion that Jesus was uh uh was an mystery mystery school adept or went to India to learn from the from the gurus or whatever. You know, there's lots of things people say. >> But do you think he had secret I think he was I would say that Jesus is exactly who he claimed to be. >> Mhm. He was the Messiah, the son of God. That's what I would say. Um and that he differed from all of these other masters and gurus in that uh he was endowed by the Holy Spirit to

do what he did. And he rose from the >> Mhm. Which Which, distinguishes Jesus of Nazareth from everyone else. Uh so, I would say as a Christian, I believe that Jesus was the Messiah, the son of God, literally. >> all this stuff around him have, you know, you needing to have ears to hear and having disciples and stuff. >> So, Initiates of something. It is very interesting that Jesus So, here you have, according to the authors of the New Testament, Jesus is he's the son of God and he is he is the creator.

That it's um uh Colossians 1:15-17, which reads, "He, the son of God, Jesus, he is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers, all things were created through him and for him and in him all things consist." In fact, I missed the other part, "And he is before all things and in him all things consist." So, uh that is a very

unique I mean, this the the the the person of Christ to the to the apostles was not just a great teacher. He was he's the singularity. All things were created through him and for him and he is before all things and in him all things consist. And this was the this is what the apostles believed about Christ. And and Jesus, so here you have the the author of creation who is walking among men. And he could have taught us about

anything. He could have instructed us in the in in electromagnetism, electricity. I mean, you know, the the Jews were were were under the dominion of the Romans. Jesus could have conferred information to them. upgraded their their their military technology, right? Given them information like electricity and so forth, that would have allowed them to easily dominate not just the Romans but the entire world, right? You could have

instantly upgraded their their their civilization. He didn't do In contrast to those gods who descended in the days of Jared, Jesus spoke in And he taught the people like they were little kids. And and he could he what what he what his message was about the kingdom of heaven. and everything that he did was a demonstration that he was precisely who he said he was, namely the son of God. And so I look at that and it's remarkable to me

the message of Christ was was was the the gospel of Christ is about, as I referred to earlier, is about redeeming the sons and daughters of Adam and reconciling them back to the Father. That's why the cross of Christ brings reconciliation so that we can go back into the family. That's what he was about. He could have taught all all manner of secret knowledge. And instead, he taught us about the kingdom of heaven and about his father.

And and the way to go back to be reconciled to the Father, which was through him. So, I separate Christ from all of these other, you know, I don't believe that that Jesus was a mystery school adept. I think that in fact his message was in direct contradiction Mhm. to the the knowledge of the watchers, to the knowledge of the gods that was Cuz he's delivered to mankind. The people that like to lump him in with the mystery schools also say he hung out with the Essenes or whatever at the >> All of this is of course conjecture.

Yeah, of course. You know, we know that Jesus that they fled to Egypt. He was in Egypt for a while and then he came back. And that that Jesus was growing up with his parents, arguing with the teachers of the law in the synagogue and so forth. So, um yeah, I would ascribe to rather I would not I don't personally subscribe to any of those alternative ideas about Christ. I believe Jesus is precisely who he said he was. And do you think, you know, with respect

you know, this idea of the watchers and the Nephilim, he's of a totally different variety. He is just the the son of God. Yes, so yes, you know, so much of what what was happening in in the life and ministry of Jesus of Nazareth was really kind of undoing what had been done the the by the and and and reclaiming uh and and and reestablishing the kingdom of God.

And so, there's a there's a great book called Reversing Herman by the late uh scholar Michael Heiser. Uh he also wrote a great another great book called um The Unseen Realm, which is a which is a really really, I think, uh critical uh dissertation on the life and ministry of Jesus as it relates to the things we were talking about earlier on, the watchers and everything that they had done. Heiser also really corroborates the Nephilim ideas like a real historical thing. And he's a guy who sort of throws pours cold water on the

Zechariah Sitchin kind of Yeah, he had a website called Sitchin is wrong. I think it was sitchiniswrong.com. >> yeah. In which he he demonstrates how a lot of Sitchin's interpretations of the cylinder seals were not very good. So, another point in favor of giants is a biblical scholar who's pretty serious in debunking other people who are, you know, considered more quacky or whatever, seems to corroborate the giants thing. >> Yeah, I mean, Heiser would have affirmed and did that the the Enochian tale that

we talked about earlier, that that I the idea of the gods the watchers descending to the earth and copulating with human women progenerating that hybrid race of giants that that formed the the the substrate of human rather of Hebrew cosmology that that was part and parcel the historical narrative of of the Hebrews when they look back into the antediluvian world. There's a lot of other scholars, too, who acknowledge that. Most scholars acknowledge that, for sure. So, it's um

you know to kind of circle back to the beginning we were talking about sort of this this larger biblical context into which you can accommodate the UFO phenomenon. Reminding us of um Anna Paulina's words, you know look at the Book of Enoch if you want to understand the phenomenon. She references that in the context of interdimensional beings. I don't know whether or not these were interdimensional I don't even know what interdimensional really means. I don't know if I can say >> hilarious when people say, "Oh, it's interdimensional." Or they say, "Oh, it's spiritual." It's like And then you

ask them one follow-up question. >> It means nothing. nothing. It means It means movie reference. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or it means it's a their political polemic on what it is. So, often if somebody says it's spiritual, they're kind of saying it's demonic. And you hear this with certain Christian podcasts, or some of whom I'm a huge fan of, but they'll say they'll use this line and say, "I think it's spiritual. I think it's kind of dark." And then they won't like they won't touch it. And it's like, "Okay, fine, but like what is an angel? What is a demon?" Like we should

try to investigate this stuff. >> Exactly. So, if you're going to invoke if you're going to invoke interdimensionality, for example as you, I'm sure well know there isn't like one theory in physics that describes extra dimensions. There's a suite of theories. And they're not the same. You know, you You have like multiverse, which is a you know, different universes with different physical properties, right? So in the multiverse you have just this endless Infinite. Wave function never collapses. >> Yeah, like the bubbles in a in a in a in

a glass of beer. It's constantly you new universes being created and each universe of multiverse has different physical properties. And the reason why multiverse came into existence is because phys- physicists I think finally realized that you can't get around a creator. Like an intelligent creator of the universe. And so the the to circumvent that idea they they created the multiverse theory, which is just like random spontaneous universes are going are being created all the time because our universe is finely tuned.

Clearly. Our universe is finely tuned. I mean, it is precisely tuned. It and if any one of the any one of the these constituents of our universe was not exactly the way it is, you couldn't have life. >> Yeah, the anthropic principle with the the anthropic principle. So the universe is clearly finely tuned for life and that points very clearly to a creator and a purpose for the universe. And so to circumvent that you just make it so the the universe just happens to have these qualities

because universes are being There's a multitude of universe of universes being created all the time. There's an infinite number of universes and so it's just like rolling the dice. And we happen to live in the one >> the Goldilocks universe where everything is so finely tuned. That was a convention of the reality that the universe had a beginning and it was finely tuned uh so that it could support life and be the way it is. And so multiverse is e- each one of these universes in multiverse has different physical properties.

Right? And so what you see like there's and then there's string theory superstring theory which superstring theory posits that there's 11 ex- there's 11 dimensions, right? A- And there's different aspects of string theory that posit more, but there's at least 11 dimensions. But but those are like inaccessible dimensions. Those are like subatomic dimensions. And and those dimensions don't give you access to another universe like multiverse. They just open it opens up another facet of

this universe, right? And then you have the hyper spatial theory of the universe, which is actually quite similar to that. You have the alternative worlds theory. These are all different scientific theories. So what people do is they they just say interdimensional and they invoke them all like a hodgepodge. And what they're doing is they're invoking a Marvel >> Yeah. So and this is why when people say, well, I think it's interdimensional just like my follow-up question is what does that mean? Yeah. Where are

they coming from? Right? Because you can have let's say a portal open up in the sky and saucers fly out of it like what my friend saw my my friend saw this actually happen. And then a portal closes, right? And when a portal was open, he could see a different atmosphere on the other side inside of the portal. Well, okay. So let's assume that story is true. And if we analyze this, we can say, okay, this is a portal. What's on the other side? Is it a different universe? Is it like some sort of different multiverse? Or is it a different part of

planet Earth? Or is it a different planet? Right? And and then so it doesn't mean what I'm trying to say is just because you see a portal open up in the sky and flying saucers come out of it, does it mean that those saucers are interdimensional or are by nature interdimensional? It doesn't it doesn't follow that those are interdimensional beings. In fact, there are it's just as likely if not more likely that what you're witnessing is what's called an Einstein-Rosen bridge and it's connecting two parts of either somewhere

on the earth or in the known universe or in our universe rather. And so what you're getting is vehicles that are coming from some other part of the universe or of some other part of the earth or the inner earth or something like that. It doesn't It doesn't necessarily lend itself to inter-dimensionality. And I think there's a lot of confusion there. I really do. Yeah. And I'm not against inter-dimensionality. I just don't think it know and nobody really can define it >> Yeah, I agree. No, it's a there they when they say inter-dimensional they just mean it's not extraterrestrial.

That's not based on any sort of physics or anything. >> Exactly. So, let me ask you I've been wanting to ask you. What So, based on all of your research, everybody you've interviewed, everything you know about this what do you think is the most likely and I know you're probably not going to want to commit to anything, but what do you think is the most likely explana- explanation based on all the crash retrieval material, based based on the the clear nuts and bolts physicality of at least part of this phenomenon, based on all of the testimonies that you've heard personally

I struggle. I can I can give you like very viable local theories around anti-gravity and propulsion and then maybe even an interesting sort of physics theory as to like who the beings are, where they're I think there are multiple phenomena at play. So, here's here's our would be my sort of more multi-faceted, very speculative weakly held answer there. I think there is some antediluvian remnants that are that have survived

some sort of cataclysm and exist in underwater bases, specifically oceans. >> Which faction are you referencing here? Uh When you think about that, who are you thinking about? It could be. I mean, you're now kind of updating my thought process on this maybe being, you know, fallen angels. I don't know. >> But are you seeing in your head like Nordics? Are you seeing gray aliens? >> Oh, I see. As far as like the actual uh You envision the survivors looking like the what the beings look like. I don't know. I don't know what I mean it's tricky. Okay, so would you agree

based on your based on your research that the three factions that are commonly cited are real namely >> Nordics, Reptilians and >> including the insectoid and mantis beings as the gray aliens I think they're all real and then where it gets so confusing is like you have cases like Travis Walton where they're working together in conjunction. >> and other cases like that in the abduction material. There you go. So if I had to guess I think usually in the abductions like the

tall Grays are overseeing the small Grays and then the Nordics are sort of they seem like even higher on the pecking order. And so the Nordics somehow seem like really I don't know somehow important as far as how the hierarchy works and then mantids also feel above just the Grays. I don't know how the Nordics and the mantids would relate to each other but yeah, what would you It's very

intriguing. I think it's it's apparent that the that the the mantis of the insectoids as as Jacob's denominates them are clearly in charge of the Grays. Like they are definitely in charge of the little Grays. so they're managing the abduction program I would say at least on some level. Maybe there's somebody above them right? But they're definitely managing like the procedures and the Grays. That seems to be apparent to me. Um here's an interesting anecdote. So in in Karla Turner's book

Taken Yeah. She features the abduction stories of number of women. And one of these ladies after being abducted by Grays was abducted suffered a endured a my lab abduction. She was taken forcibly from her house by military personnel. She brought on to a it was a very violent episode and she seeing I I hope I'm getting this right. She remembers seeing Nordics on the And she had an interaction with one like

she was laying in a bed. Sometimes they were like the the the the scientists and the human scientists were extracting the the the implants and stuff and interrogating her and trying to figure out what the Grays were doing. It was always about trying to figure out what the Grays were doing. But then she had this the the there's this weird story with one of these women there was a Nordic she was interacting with a Nordic on one of these bases. And she asked the Nordic if they were involved with the Grays. And the reply of the Nordic was by

That was his reply or her I guess. What does that mean? But I so what and this is interesting you bring this up because this would also be my mental model on the sort of covert space initiatives involving you legacy reverse engineering programs is that we're actually working in conjunction with the beings themselves. Yes. And that story you just told is one of a variety of of the beings being on these bases. And if you think about it's so strange. It's like you have MK Ultra,

you have exotic propulsion, you have free energy you have all these things where it seems like there's a confluence or convergence of like just human science initiatives and then the the people at the forefront of all those initiatives start to communicate with aliens or get into weird alien like the the inventors of the radio so Tesla and Marconi claimed alien communication. Puharich who was like the pioneer of MK Ultra was Hermann Oberth was saying that rocketry was inspired was you know, von Braun was inspired by the beings and

Oberth gives a whole lecture on UFOs. So you have people who are pioneers of the science specifically science which is the forefront of human knowledge. And so again going back to the kind of fallen angel the rebel angel which gives the knowledge to the man. So that these people who are at the front of all of those things seem to be interfacing. Thomas Townsend Brown you could think of his anti-gravity stuff as an explanation away from the extraterrestrial hypothesis and then you get into his the details of his life and he's had you

know, literally close encounters of the third kind he says he's communicating with space brothers. And so that's the as you know, as deep as you go it's it's like the three-body problem. It's this Chinese science fiction novel where they the interface between the people who are stealing fire from the gods, you know, that these Promethean you know, figures these kind of Oppenheimer style they seem to be interfacing with these beings most. And so that seems significant and then the nuclear thing seems significant because

the nuclear thing is kind of the Archimedes lever both for cataclysm but also nuclear is if you take Feynman's like the room at the bottom thing, you know, the fact that we're splitting an atom um seems somehow really important for our root access to reality itself. There's probably an ambient I mean there is the Schumann resonance ambient electromagnetic radiation that helps life grow. And so like interfering with that they would obviously you know, interfere with us interfering with that.

>> And so there all these things that I you know, I have feel like I have a good grasp of there and then on the I don't know how the beings and how they work together and then which you know, it's like when people um commune with God and do these sort of cabalistic protocols of which CE5 is a variation and I'm not the biggest Greer fan but like you know, I do think there's actually something to the >> with something, yeah. >> Somebody's making contact with something. And I don't know if that's that's probably not the same thing as

what's showing up at our nuclear site. Is that the same thing as what's showing up you know, in under the oceans? Like all of these might be different things. I don't know. >> you Have you had discussions with any of the psionic assets? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I I've talked to some of those guys and um I wondered with the psionic stuff I wondered if there was a connection between these psionic assets and alien And the reason why I wondered that is because one thing that seems apparent is

continually interlaced with the In other words, the Grays know their thoughts even from a distance. And a And a good illustration of this is there's been women have had a a a you know, I've had a zygote implanted and it's grown into a fetus in their womb. And they realize that they're pregnant. They go to their gynecologist. They realize that they're pregnant. You know, what's crazy is that sometimes these women are virgins. And um but the the pregnancy is confirmed and

and they contemplate an abortion. Just contemplate an abortion. Or they're talking on the phone to somebody about it. The Grays come and get the fetus. They come and get it. And so, the woman will go in for the and they'll do the ultrasound or whatever before, gone. You know, this is the missing fetus Why? Cuz the Grays took it. Cuz they didn't want the they didn't want the fetus to be retrieved by the doctor or aborted. So, they came and got

it. They re-abducted her and they took it out. So, um and there's other such stories that I indicate that perhaps through the implants, but also because the Greys are are potently telepathic. That there's there's a there's a connection established between the Grey and the abductee. Mhm. So, if you are this is just my theory. And by the way, I I posited this theory to some of the psionics guys. Mhm. Said, so if you are an abductee

and you you're signaling something. You're broadcasting maybe because, you know, you're implanted or just telepathically, whatever brain waves, you're broadcasting something. This is the way I like to think of this. I have a friend who uh was a rancher in in Australia. And it was, you know, always really hot and he had all these cattle out there, so he didn't ever really want to get up. He'd sit there in his tighty whities and on his computer. And he didn't want to get up and go see

if there was a problem with his cows. He'd hear like he'd hear some commotion out there and he he could see him on And so, rather than getting up and going out there, he would he had a drone. He just put his drone up in the air and he'd fly his drone over there and kind of check out what's going on. Did one of them get bit by a snake or something? Right? So, he didn't have to get up and go out there. I almost wonder if that's what's going on with some of these psionic people. They're broadcasting something and then an automated response Yep. >> shows up. Like orbs often will show up. Uh or sometimes crafts, sometimes they

can get the craft to land. Uh I almost wonder if because they're intrinsically interlace with the phenomenon if it's almost like just sending out a broadcast and it the automated response comes kind of just like the drone checking on the cattle. No, it that would make sense. It really would if you look at like, you know, Sky Watcher which seemed like this Jake >> Yeah, exactly. Almost externalization of what was happening on the inside and maybe it got botched somewhat and I don't know what ended up happening with

it, but it was that you had this mechanical dog whistle, and then you had this human dog whistle. And so, I do think it was this thing where you could predictably And then you you hear other stories of the reverse engineering program involving like the only way to fly the craft is with your mind. >> So, that seems significant as well. >> Yeah, there's definitely a mind-machine interface involved. Um I think that's clear. I don't know what you think about Lazar's testimony. Personally, I believe it's true. I do, too. Um I I think it I

believe it's true, and then I also think they were you know, they were messing with him and probably maybe trying to get certain things out, and then it went ran amok. >> The And the initial briefing that he got, I'm not sure how much of that was true. Yeah. Oh, yeah, exactly. There's a lot of passage material. >> Bible, I think he called it. Yeah. >> Or whatever it was, or that the material that they had him read before he began to work on the project. >> Yeah. That to me seems like like maybe some manipulation to try and, you know, Definitely was some >> throw some confusion in the mix cuz they

don't ever want any of these guys putting too many of the pieces together. Yep. They just want them to be laser-focused on one aspect of it. >> And you want to give them uniquely false details, so if there is a leak, you know, exactly, you know. >> So, you you always got And And And Lazar, actually, he he thinks that that >> He says that it's a possibility. Yeah. So, I actually asked these some of these psionic guys, and well, I proposed this idea to them, and they were very receptive to it. In fact, I was told, "We know for a fact that some of our assets are abductees, so there's no question that that's a

component of this." And they actually um conceded that yeah, that might be why these people can kind of summon UFOs is because they're already interlaced with the phenomenon, and you're broadcasting, and it's just an automated response. Um you know, I hate to put it in such crude terms, but you know, we're the cattle, and the drones show up. Right. so I think there's something to that, >> Well, is there is there but or I mean that's the somewhat negative framing. What if, you know, the Enoch goes up

and, you know, or walks with God and you have, you know, Ezekiel, maybe it's a dream like thing, but like he sort of walks with God. There are people who believe in this sort of cabalistic story. And they'll say Jesus in the book of Acts going up on the cloud is an example of this. Mhm. And maybe they're taking liberties and you can, you know, correct them if they're wrong, but like what if the craft showing up is like to commune with or take them somewhere and

show them something beautiful and then they come back down? >> Well, um I mean, okay, let me give you an example here. And I got I got I got to go back to and and I'm going to give you two examples. Uh first one is a positive encounter. Okay. So, I have a good friend of mine and he's gone publicly. He's gone public with this, so I'll just say his name is name is Gary Stearman, wonderful man, older gentleman. And he's a he's a a great Bible teacher. Uh just really, really knowledgeable.

He's dedicated life his life to it. He's in his 80s now, just a phenomenal Bible And a really good friend of mine. And he told me a story one time that threw me for a loop years ago and this sort of got me it sort of dislodged me from from a the sort of the traditional position where you're not really thinking about UFOs in a biblical context. It this sort of this is as I like to say it rearranged the theological fur- furniture in my brain a little bit. He had an encounter and I'm going to get some of these details wrong, but um

Gary's told this story several times including at a one of our conferences, True Legend conferences years ago. But he was I don't remember the the the the year and and and and he comes from a family, the Stearman family. They they're an air an aircraft family. And members of the Stearman family have worked with Lockheed Martin and various They've been in the programs, let's just say that. And so that was the environment that Gary grew up in and and so he was he was I'm going to try and get the details right here. He was delivering an aircraft.

a prop plane. I think he was flying from I want to say Lubbock, Texas to Dallas, I think. I don't remember. Um and he was delivering this plane. And so uh at the time he just wanted to be a pilot. He wanted to just do what his family did. And he was on this routine uh situation where he's delivering this And he gets up in the air and he's And he's a young guy at in this context and he's flying along and then suddenly

the the electrical components went out on his craft. And he realized he's in trouble, right? He's he's electrical components went out of his craft. And he knows he's in trouble, so I think I forget what he did to try and manage the situation, but he knew he he could he could have a real problem here. And um I think what he was going to do was try and turn off the electrical components and then turn them back on when he was coming closer so he had to land. I don't remember. But he was in trouble. And I think he was flying a Cessna.

And as he's flying along with this serious problem. Uh he looks off I think he looks off his left wing and he sees this shiny object flying out there in the distance. I think he said like a mile away. I hope I'm not butchering this story. I'm getting the fundamentals right, but I I hope I'm not butchering the details. He sees this shiny object flying a mile away. He thought it's just another aircraft out And then um at some point he hears a voice. He

hears a voice. That said, and he said it was comical. The voice said, "If you look to your left, you'll see a UFO." And it was like it He said it was like a tour guide voice. It was comical. And he looks to left again and this craft now is right close to him. And it's a walnut-shaped craft. And he got a good long look at it. It's right off of his left wing. And and it's flying perpendicular to And and it's it's it's just this be- He

said it was just this beautiful shining craft. Just It was just just the way he describes it. It had these colors emanating off of it and it was just this silver, you know, the typical silver craft. No rivets, no seams, you know, the the typical And and he said that um he he couldn't see the beings inside of it, but he felt them. Like he had this he felt like this bro- fraternity, like this fraternal

affection. As though I think the way that he describes it, like this fraternal affection. like these beings were familiar with And were there to look out look out for And and and that craft stayed with him and guided like basically it accompanied him for the rest of the flight until he got to the airport and then it just hovered up there and he landed successfully. Now, the crazy thing is he gained I think he gained

like 3 hours. Woah. Because he was in close proximity with this craft. And he ended up arriving really late and he didn't have the fuel for the amount of time that he was up in the air. He didn't have the fuel. And the people he was delivering the aircraft to were freaking out on him. And in addition, they they he told them there was a problem with the aircraft, so they they took the aircraft to the mechanic to take a look at it. And the next day Gary came back and was talking to mechanic. And I don't remember what the issue was, but he should have been

Like this is this this whatever the issue was, the mechanic said, "I don't know how you landed this. You you don't you don't land a plane like this. He should have been dead." So so Gary but and here's a really important facet of this story. So when Gary took off that day in the Cessna, his trajectory on his life in his life was to be a pilot. By the time he landed, he knew unequivocally that he was supposed to be a Bible teacher. Mhm. Whoa. So the encounter with this craft completely

changed the trajectory of his life. And he became he he devoted himself uh to learning and teaching the Bible. Because because of that encounter. So I asked Gary, "Well, what do you think was in that craft? Who do you think was in that craft?" Because they obviously saved his And his answer? Angels. Mhm. Were in that craft. but that's a true story and Gary's a wonderful man and as I said before,

excellent Bible teacher. And that that that encounter changed his life forever. So um that's why I established in the that you know, you can't just label there's no you if you try and be overly simplistic with this phenomenon, you're going to get it wrong. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's highly complex. And I always tell people, "Embrace the complexity. If you're trying to squeeze it into one thing, you're going to be wrong." Uh because the universe is vast for one Um if you're coming from a Christian

perspective, you you cannot hope to constrain the mind of the maker Mhm. that you don't even comprehend. In other you can't say that that God's only created XYZ and that's it. We have no idea what's out there. We have no idea. And I don't do that. I don't restrain the mind of a being that I cannot hope to comprehend. That the mind being the the maker himself. So, I think that you have a a few things

happening out there. You have, as I said in the beginning, you have some of the what we see are the the non-human good The the the the faction that the Bible describes as angels. Some of them are are from the same faction, but the bad guys. The the ones that we would describe today as {quote} {unquote} fallen angels. And then you have a host of other things in the game that maybe we have no idea what the heck they are, where they come from. And then the the weirdest part of the whole phenomenon is it often feels like it mirrors somebody's internal

state. So, when they do these sort of, you know, sigh, you know, attempts to call the craft. I hate to use the word summoning cuz that inherently sounds kind of dark. >> Yeah. Uh it feels like the emotions that get amplified. It's almost like in a psychedelic trip where if you go in with a lot of ego, you have a lot of like pain and hardship kind of excavated and you're humbled. Like it feels like that. You you you are Yeah, I

the way that these guys have described it to me is there's there's it's it's actually in some cases it's unbearable. Right. >> And they have to be severed. Like they can't take it. They have That's why you know, I think um Well, I think a lot of the legacy program, a lot of these guys have sundowner's syndrome and they literally lose their minds. >> Yeah, it's it's unbearable. So, they have to be You have to be careful cuz guys can go crazy if they're if they're they they establish a connection. And whatever's happening there is so intense that it's almost like

sticking your finger in an electrical socket. You know? At some point you're going to get fried. And that they have to cut themselves off or somebody has to sort of remove them from that state. Um and it can be extremely traumatizing. I know that because the guys have told me themselves. It can be extremely Because you're you're interfacing with number one something we don't understand. I think that's the first That's how we started off this Uh we're interfacing with something we can't control. Yeah. We don't understand. That's much smarter than we

are and probably way older. Yeah. That's the baseline interaction. Those are the Those That's the our baseline scenario when we interact with this stuff. So, if you're if you're interacting, let's say psychically, sionically with this with this phenomenon, you may cuz they can they can control the craft And not all these craft have anybody have anything inside of them, you know, some of these things are just like you know, drone for lack of a better word. And and because the the mechanism is a mind machine interface, they can

actually control some of this or grab grab hold of it, so to speak. And sometimes there's they'll grab hold of something and somebody else shows up to break that connection. Right? And when that somebody else shows up, there's like this intense personality that's introduced into that Like another intelligence is suddenly introduced in that scenario and it's It's It's overpowering because their capabilities are much stronger than ours. We're like toddlers. I always

warn people like when you interact with this stuff, it's equivalent I think it's an accurate analogy. It's like a two-year-old interacting with a nuclear physicist. Right. Right? That's what it's like. Yeah, yeah. We're the two-year-old. Yeah. We can kind of communicate. We can, you know, say we're hungry, we're thirsty, But we're never ever going to outsmart these people. Yep. We're always going to be manipulated by them, for sure. So, we're always at a disadvantage. And this is

why there's a prohibition of contact in the biblical in in in the Bible. Mhm. That's why divination, there's a prohibition against divination. Because divination is essentially seeking information from other Let's just be very broad in our terminology here. From other non-human intelligences aside from Yahweh, aside from God. >> So, how do you reconcile cuz you're clearly very Christian, but you also have an intense interest in this. So, how do you reconcile your almost, you know, you think about this whole thing, it's like this

forbidden truth, you know, and it's like this kind of constant desire for that uh you know, your adherence to the Bible and and Jesus and >> Well, it's a I wouldn't say it's forbidden. The the truth of it, I wouldn't say is forbidden. I would say that um I would say that it's important for Christians to have a a very well-developed um paradigm. Mhm. That it that can accommodate things without without busting it, shattering it into a million pieces. So, an an elastic paradigm.

So, the way that I approach this is I come at this entire thing from a Christocentric perspective. So, what I mean by that is traditionally, the the the traditional Christian worldview is anthropocentric, which I call the anthropocentric perspective in Birthright. And in the from the anthropocentric perspective, and when I say traditional, I mean the traditional Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox view, mankind is at the center of all things.

We are at the center of all things. And and and the earth is at the center of all things. Not necessarily the center of the universe, but like the center of everything happening. I mean, not not the center of the the solar in that sense, even though that's the way that, you know, they used to think in uh centuries ago. I mean, like in terms of conceptually speaking, mankind is at the center of everything. And if you think of it like as a as a like a a wagon wheel, you have the hub and then you have the spokes.

From the anthropocentric perspective, mankind is the hub. And everything that's happening in the universe is revolving around him. He is the center of attention in all things. And and that's sort of traditionally been the view. And that's people have a hard time then contemplating could there be other extraterrestrial intelligences? Well, how can that be? How does that fit into this wagon wheel here with mankind at the center center and everything focusing on Well, I don't have That's not my

In fact, I would say that's not the biblical perspective. The biblical perspective is an anthropocentric, or rather a Christocentric, perspective of the universe. So, you remove mankind from the center of that wheel, from the hub, and you place Christ at the center, right? And you make us one of the spokes of that wheel. Now, everything revolves around him, the son of God, that Colossians 1 uh 15 through 17 that I cited earlier, that that he he is the center of all

things. All things were created through him and for him, and he is before all things, and in him all things consist. That's the that's the Christocentric perspective. So, he's the main He's the primary protagonist. We are ancillary characters in his story. Everything with the universe itself was created for him. So, once you once you sort of that you disassociate the universe, the purpose of the universe from mankind. That's an important thing. You disassociate the purpose of the universe

from mankind. We're not the purpose of the universe anymore. Christ is the purpose of the universe. It's his story, it's his universe, everything revolves around him. Then that opens up a much larger, more much more extensive cosmology. Mhm. Cuz he's now at the center of this thing. I'm a spoke in that wheel. Mhm. Right? Along with how many other Who knows what? We know that the sons of God exist. We other non-human which we went through earlier, preexist us. They're They're They are preeminent in regard to their nature. We mankind was created to

be a little lower than the heavenly beings. So, we have non-human intelligence already in the game, biblically speaking. They're part of the story. But the story doesn't revolve around them and it doesn't revolve around us. It revolves around the central figure, the son the son of God who sits at the center of this entire thing. So, when you do that, you can comfortably begin to accommodate things into a biblical worldview. And it doesn't matter anymore. Like, it doesn't change, for example, the gospel of Christ at all. If it turns out that there are, let's say let's say the gray aliens are from

Zeta Reticuli. That doesn't do violence to my theological perspective at all. Christ is still at the center of the universe. The gospel of Christ is still And people often raise the contention, "Well, wait a minute. If you can If you have extraterrestrials, doesn't that mean therefore that Jesus would have had to go and die for all the different uh alien factions on the different planets or that they all had to have their own version of Jesus?" The Bible already answers that question. And the answer is no, because it says he did not

help the angels. And what that means that the the context is he didn't provide He didn't do what he did for mankind. He didn't provide a way of reconciliation for the angels like he did for us. And the angels are non-human intelligence who are already in the game. Mhm. These are already extraterrestrial beings. They're already in the picture biblically speaking. So, just adding some more intelligent beings into that equation doesn't change anything biblically >> Have you ever read C.S. Lewis's space

>> No, and everyone is shocked when I say I'm shocked. >> You know, I I grew up on The Chronicles of Narnia when I was a kid, when I was in grade school, and um elementary school. I grew up, I mean, I just devoured The Chronicles of Narnia. I just read through the whole seven books and then start over at the beginning, read through them again. And and I never cared about I never wanted to read the space stuff. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> But, everybody always tells me, "Man, you got to read the the space trilogy." >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, cuz I think of him as another uh Christian thinker who's

you know, very um very impressive. Like, a really amazing thinker. >> Very philosophical, and uh but then also has this cosmology and writes about this sort of space war, and it's very interesting. But, Yeah, so I I feel like I'm in accord with C.S. Lewis even though I've never Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> read any of this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, uh this is probably sacrilegious after the last 30 minutes of conversation we just had about religion, but I I need to hear this story about the Peruvian face peelers because My

God, this >> it's so gnarly. Back in 2023, in the summer of 2023, specifically in the month of June and and July, videos that hit social media and just went viral, and they featured uh some indigenous people out in the Peruvian who were encountering this phenomenon. And there was something terrifying happening to them, and they were running around at night screaming, yelling, discharging their firearms into

the jungle. And and then in interviews, these individuals, these various villages, but particularly this particularly at the center of this was this village called San Antonio de Pintuyacu. And individuals in these videos were being interviewed, and they were saying that they were being attacked by aliens. Some said aliens, others said pelacaras, which which translates to face peelers. obviously something very traumatic was

It wasn't just happening in San Antonio de Pintuyacu, it was happening in other villages as well. Multiple villages were being affected. Uh there were reports of people who were being recovered bodies, cadavers that were being recovered without their faces or faces partially surgically removed. And it just spread like wildfire on social media. And it turns out that, you know, I lived in Peru for 10 years and I cut my teeth in the Amazon. I speak the particular dialect they speak out there. They speak Spanish, but they speak uh a dialect of Spanish that they call

chap up, which it mixes in some Quechuan and um that's that's the kind of Spanish It's It's kind of like hillbilly Spanish, actually. So, um and it was an happening in an area of the of the Peruvian Amazon that I'm quite familiar with, roughly in the region of Alto Nanay, where a lot of this was unfolding. So, people were contacting me and I was I was watching all of this happen on on uh social media. I made a couple of videos about it with my friend Doug and we were talking about the

phenomenon, just sort of tracking it, and people were sending me emails and tagging me on social media, begging me to go to Peru. But luckily for me, I didn't have my passport at the time. I had sent my passport away to renew it. And it sort of gave me an out, cuz I really didn't feel like going, cuz I had to I was actually had planned a trip with my son, my oldest son, to And I didn't I was not going to sacrifice that trip with my son. So, um I didn't really want to travel before that and and I I honestly didn't just didn't want to go. And people were

begging me to go. You need to go up there. Nobody was going. I kept waiting for somebody to go. Nobody was going. Um, there were some interviews with some of the uh villagers in in the city of Iquitos, but nobody went to the village except provincial policemen with a navy escort. They went to the village because the villagers were begging the navy to come protect them. They were begging the navy. They were making these videos where they're all holding signs that say we're under attack. Please help us. They were begging the navy. These people were

clearly not just from San Antonio Pintu Yacu, various villages in the region, right? The Alto Nanay, generally And so these policemen went there um and did a what I describe as a piss-poor investigation. And they interviewed some of the people some of the villagers. They interviewed a 15-year-old girl named Talia who had there's an attempted abduction of Talia. And they they concluded these police officers concluded, not based on the testimony of

press, the American press, it I even watched a segment on NewsNation where they were like joking around like, oh, those pesky miners with jetpacks. Like, it's those guys. Obviously, they're trying to drive the villagers off their land. And it was absurd. Who owns jetpacks, let alone miners on a jet >> was absurd. That's absurd. I I None of these people who are saying this had ever encountered a Peruvian river miner. I have. And they don't they don't they certainly don't have jet packs. >> Tony Stark. >> They're No, they dump a bunch of mercury

in the water, kill everything, and then dredge the bottom on these on these on these rusted out boats Yeah. that can barely, you know, move. And and uh they don't have any money. And the whole thing was absurd. It was absurd. So, at that point I thought, I got to go, cuz this is this is bull crap. There's not jet pack miners." So, my my passport came back, and I didn't have any more excuses. So, I said, "All right, I'm going to I had a little window of time, like a week before right

up against my my Guatemala trip with my Uh and so, I tagged my friend Doug Thornton, asked him if he'd go with me. And Doug is a was an infantry Marine, and uh a a DHS uh special operator. So, Uh Doug is a great guy to go with. And I organized this this expedition. I uh I chartered a river boat. And I made contact with the village first, and I want to thank um ufologist Ronnie

Vernet, Brazilian ufologist. He put me in contact with the village. And uh in fact, with the kid that had the young man that had filmed some of these the footage that went viral. His name was Christian. He was a school teacher. And I got in contact with Christian, and Christian and I began a dialogue, and and uh what I did was he wanted me to record a message uh on WhatsApp in regard to my intentions. I wanted to come do this investigation. And and

and he played that recording to the Apu, the chief of the village, and his And then, in response, I got an official invitation to go from the Apu. And I was told that I was told that the villagers were in dire straits, that if there was any way I could help, that would be great also. Like, I'm I'm free to come and do whatever investigation I want, but also, you know, they're they're running out of medicine and stuff like that. So, I contacted some of associates of mine, specifically some of the men from

Conduit Church. Some of these awesome dudes over there who who who wanted to help me fund this thing because I wanted to I now wanted to sort of go on a an aid mission, too, to to restock the resupply them with medical supplies and stuff. And we did. So, we went to San Antonio de Pintuyacu on this chartered riverboat. By the way, all of this is in a YouTube video on my YouTube channel. And we we brought supplies. The Apu and some of the guys in the village met us in Iquitos and went up like escorted us

up the river. It took a couple days to get up the river. Um you go up the Alto Nanay, and then you go up the you go up the Nanay River, and then you go up the Pintuyacu from there. And when I arrived at the village, I was I've been in a lot of these villages, you know, in Peru, and this is the first time I was greeted by, you know, a small army of men with loaded shotguns. And they were there cheerfully receiving us, but they were armed. Like, all of them were armed. And this is how they were always since the incursions have been happening. They were doing patrols.

The men were not sleeping at night. They were They were sleeping during the day and then patrolling at night. And they hadn't been going out to their farms and and and they they were It was just they were traumatized. So, we unloaded all the all of the provisions that we brought them. We also brought them, in addition to food and medical supplies, we brought them um some technology. We brought them some night vision goggles with recording capabilities so that they could see and record the phenomenon. We brought them a

thermal binoculars. We brought them um high-powered flashlights, and we brought them really good radios so that you know, so that they could better protect their village. And and I also went with um I hired a couple of active duty Navy jungle commandos to go with me. uh proving guys. And so um we disembarked and and were greeted by villagers, and they they brought me into

their tambo, which is their like their meeting place. Government had built had built this thing there. This was Santa Elena Pinto Yacu is a it's the Kichwa people, and they're a very old uh community. The very old one of the oldest communities in the region, and this is sort of one of their last outposts. And this is one of the last it is like the last outpost of civilization before just a vast untracked wilderness, Amazon jungle. So, the government had put a communications outpost there, which means the villagers had internet. So,

they had satellite internet. So, these when I say villagers, they're not people like in you know, grass skirts with blow with blowguns. They're they're more modernized villagers, and they all have cell phones. You know, they watch Marvel movies and stuff sitting in the tambo at night. So, um they received us uh very um enthusiastically. They did a traditional Kichwa dance for us. It was really cool. And then we began our investigation in earnest. And um I started to to go around with the apu, the chief, to go to

the different areas where they had encountered the phenomenon, and to interview people. um I'm going to try to encapsulate this. So, the first thing I I came to understand was a lot of people in the village had encountered this phenomenon. It wasn't like one or two people. A lot of them had seen the phenomenon. And they were all many of them were like a lot of PTSD. And basically what they were encountering was the way that these incursions would begin was

it'd be night time always at night time always after dark and they would see like two mini flying saucers hovering in the air, right? Just these little saucers with series of lights around the And that's how they knew the incursion was about to happen and then these two little saucers would go flying into the jungle and then land. And then shortly thereafter they would see two individuals sneaking into the village. And these individuals would be dressed head to foot in black armored body suits with helmets.

They were described as very much like the Green Goblin from the Spider-Man movie. Yeah, with the with the you know, because he had that helmet but he had like the kind of the almond shaped eyes with the yellow almond shaped eyes. And he uses the the craft is like the hovercraft. Yeah. So, that's how what they were saying is like the Green Goblin but without like the big you know, grin on the helmet. >> on the craft like the hovercraft. >> So, what the little flying saucer things that they saw turned out to be circular And and these guys were dressed in black

armored body suits and their eyes they had these almond shaped tinted eye lenses on their helmets. Some said yellow, some said green. Night vision, I don't know. And and they were very tall. Everyone said they were taller than me. I'm 6'1". And and some people I would go like are they this tall or this tall? And some people were like this tall like you know, 7 7 7 and 1/2 8 feet tall or basically you know,

calculating some exaggeration in there, you know, they were probably 6 and 1/2 7 feet tall conservatively based on what the villagers told me. So, the these individuals they shot some of them at point-blank with shotguns, 16-gauge It had no effect. They were literally hear the BBs dinking off of their armor. And and one guy said he he was confronted one of these guys confronted him well he confronted one of these assailants at night and this particular

guy was dressed in a silver suit and he was so adamant. He's like, I I know all the other people are saying black but what I saw the guy was silver head to foot. And he said, "I shot him at point-blank range with a shotgun." And it and the blast the shotgun he could hear that the the BBs dink off the armor and it knocked the guy back on his butt. And by the way, when he shot him the guy was hovering not on a hoverboard just off of his boots. They had these two circular discs on the bottom of their boots that emitted a light and they could hover.

So he was floating he said he was floating about a meter off the ground. I shot him he fell back on his back from the blast and then pop right back up and just like zoomed away. Um, a lot of the villagers saw these So a handful of them shot at them. one of the villagers said that he he saw one a larger disc hovering in the sky he put his flashlight on it and he saw two guys so the silhouettes of two of these armored guys together both of them on one of on one circular disc.

Uh, so sometimes there was just one guy and they're like surfing on them. And um, and so in addition to the to the black armored body suits these assailants the that technology and the hoverboard technology it's clear that there was also advanced aerospace vehicles involved because more than a few villagers one guy drew it on acrylic chalkboard for me saw an almond-shaped rather a acorn-shaped craft but like prone like on its side. Wow. And they all just they all do the same

thing. They all drew it for me. All the ones who told me about this, they drew drew it in the dirt for me or I had them draw it in the dirt for me or I or the one guy drew it on the acrylic chalkboard. And I've got that on film. They all drew the same thing. And some of them saw close encounter like like 40 ft in the air above their hut. Uh some people described it as matte black. It's hovering silently. No propellers, no propulsion. Remember, these people are watching all the same movies we are on their phones. They know what airplanes are. They know what helicopters are. These aren't like primitive, like I said, natives.

one guy said, the guy who drew it on the acrylic chalkboard said that he was pulling up his nets at night. And as he was doing that, it was like he said, it was like somebody turned the lights on or the sun suddenly came up. He looks up and 30-40 ft above him is one of these craft, almond-shaped I keep saying almond-shaped acorn-shaped craft. And he said, but this one was translucent. It was like it had a mesh, a transparent mesh. You could see the mesh, like looking through a screen And he saw two guys inside of it. Two people or beings or something inside of

it. One in the front, one in like the belly of it. And it projected a light down on him. And it and it had these little stubby protrusions, and they opened up. And there was like a series of blinking And then they folded back in. And it's and it started to move off. And he said, when it started to move off, there was sort of a low frequency hum. So, you have not only you have these armored assailants on these hoverboards, you have advanced aerospace vehicles, um unconventional technology being

deployed in the Amazon, Peru, the uh Alto Nanay region, various different villages. Now, um We got like 6 minutes on the camera, 7 minutes on the camera. >> I'm not even like Well, why are they called face peelers? Uh because because the the the indigenous people, if you ask them who these assailants are, half of them will say they're aliens, half of them will say they're face peelers. And what they mean by face peelers is

there's this the the the face face peeler legend goes back to the '80s, like the mid-'80s. And it it doesn't go further than that. Um, and they say that these they call them gringos started showing up with technology. It's sort of like the The the the wives, I mean, the mothers and fathers would tell their children, "Don't go out at night or the face peeler will get you." Because every now and again there'd be an attack by face peelers, and the the cadaver of the the person would go missing, and then they would show up later without a piece of their

face gone or their whole face, and sometimes their organs harvested. Um, so some villagers think these are gringos, like CIA, you know, whatever. That's, you know, everything CIA to people out there. So, um, they probably thought I was CIA, but so, uh, there there's the the the most important incident happened with this one of the most important incidents with this 15-year-old girl named Talia. She was almost abducted. That's why they the police went out there. They had to

go out there because there was an attempted abduction, uh, kidnapping. So, they had to go investigate. So, um, we interviewed Talia. I I The first time I saw her, she was in the village, in the middle of the during the evening. Everybody was out, you know, I the all the men were playing soccer, the women were playing volleyball, and she was sitting by herself against the wall. The Apu pointed her out to us. And me and Doug just were sort of st- We didn't really want to approach her. We didn't want to freak her out. She's just sitting there kind of smiling, watching the the people play, you know,

volleyball and soccer. Just sort of sitting there by herself, smiling. She looked over, she saw us, and instantly she's she started to tremble. She just started trembling. And she froze up, and she's just freaked out. And she took her hair, she had long hair, she took it and moved it over to the side of her face so we couldn't see her face. And she just sat there trembling. And and the apple brought her father over and we said, "Hey, we'd love to interview Talia, but obviously she's very scared." So he went over to her, tried to convince her to talk to us. She

did not want anything to do with us. She associated us with her assailants. But um the father told us, "Hey, here's where I live. Come back over tomorrow morning. I'll talk to her. You guys just come and I'll bring her out to you." And so that's what we did the next Long story short, we were standing in in the in this guy's backyard. He brought Talia out to us to talk to her. And she as she saw she

started trembling again and crying. Severe PTSD. And she had a scar right here. And uh so we I interviewed Talia and she told me a wild story. I mean, I'm I don't really have the time to tell it right now, but she would there was an attempted kidnapping of her by these assailants one evening. And there's a lot of details that goes into this, but they they they captured her in her backyard. They on they landed on hoverboards. That's how it began. She she she she was

poking at a piece of fruit in the evening just before sun just after or as it's getting dark, the fruit hit the ground, she bent down over to pick it up and she felt this gust of wind. And she looks over and it's one of these had the foot in black armored body suits, right? It just it's just it's one guy. He's surfing on this hoverboard. And they all go like this when they tell me. Like they're they're like surfing. And the guy comes there's a little goalie. He comes up the hill hovering and lands the board

right behind her. And grabs her from the the behind from behind. Grabs her mouth and grabs her and then another guy, same thing, comes surfing up the from the gully, lands in front of her, grabs her feet. And then they both lift her off the ground and she said when they when they after they landed they reached down and touched something on their boot to engage the technology, lifted off the ground and then they hovered her, carried her behind this chicken coop, this thatch-roof chicken coop, and there proceeded to without going to all the

details to attempt to cut her face off. They took out what what we think was a like a laser scalpel and they began at first they put some cream on her face which numbed her face. First they shot something up her nose with a syringe and she became disoriented. And then they put cream on her face and took out this late what we think is a laser scalpel and began to make the And in fact she heard them speaking. One one of them she referred to as the gringo cuz he sounded like me she said and the other uh one sounded like a Peruvian.

and when they're getting ready to do this they're putting the cream on her face before they start making the incision, one of them said to the other, "Be careful. Be careful. Don't put too much on her face. It'll ruin the flesh." And she said that what what she thought they meant was it was she heard them saying something about how it makes it difficult to separate the the skin from the you know from the flesh beneath it. Um so then they proceeded to make the incision and she started just one last effort to to to break loose. She started to push up the

helmet on the guy behind her and he let go for to pull his helmet down. He didn't want her to see him. And when he let go of her she screamed. And everyone in the village was already in a state of vigilance. This wasn't the first incursion. So they're all sitting on their porches at night with their guns and their flashlights getting ready to start doing patrols. So when she screamed they were on scene. Her brother and and and people who lived near her were on scene within, you know, very short order. And they saw Talia laying on the ground

in a state of disorientation. And the two assailants, they were dragging her by the hair actually at first, and they were trying to lift her off the ground to take her by her hair. And the one guy said, you know, let her go. We can't take her or something like that, and they dropped her. And then the other people came on the scene. Talia remembered that part. She was being pulled by her hair. And then when the others And you show in your video the laser incision, and it's crazy. I mean, so so So when the other villagers arrive

inhabitants, hardened target with the navy presence, Peruvian navy presence, military helicopters, okay? It's not minors with jetpacks trying to drive people off of the land so they could mine the water, the river. That's not what this phenomenon is. The fact that the incursions were happening in Nauta uh debunks that that narrative. So the Michael Herrera thing, I think what we're looking at is and and Michael's a friend of mine, and uh he uh had a as everyone knows, I won't I won't retrace his story, but um he

encountered a disc, a large disc in >> was an eight-gon craft that was blacker than black, and he was apprehended by these people that weren't special forces, but had superhumans technology. Some paramilitary group and they were they seemed to be escorting these psionic assets on board this like alien reproduction this exotic manned craft that was >> in human trafficking. That's what it seems like. >> terms. Exactly. So So the the connection there is nefarious people,

organizations with advanced aerospace craft using it for the most for the most abominable things imaginable including uh including um human trafficking for whatever purposes harvesting psionic assets which they do. In this case peeling flesh off In this case peeling flesh but I think they were using the face the face peeler phenomenon as a cover. For what? For something else that was going on. And very very quickly there was an operation happening a joint operation happening in Peru that had

some crossover when when these incursions were happening in the jungle. It was called Resolute Sentinel. And it involved it involved basically every military agency we have. The Marines were there in Peru. The Air Force, the Navy >> That's not a coincidence. >> The the Space Force was there. The The Coast Guard. And they were running joint operations training operations with the Peruvian military, Uruguay, I think Ecuador, Brazil, the UK was involved. It was like

>> So what would the face peeling be a distraction from? >> know but you know I always wonder if if that since Resolute Sentinel was a cover. Wow. Either I'd like to think it's it was a cover for some sort of benevolent operation happening to try and drive these guys out or capture them or something. I don't know. I hate to think it was I hate to think that we were experimenting with something out >> that would be awful. I I hate to think that and I don't want to think that but or is there some sort of um

third party in possession of some subcontracting uh apparatus underneath these uh aerospace contractors who maybe have gone rogue. Some nefarious global >> Yeah. Is that what we're looking at here? On that sinister note. And there's a whole lot more to be said of this. We are We are out of time. Look at my video on YouTube, the Face People. >> Yeah, well we'll we'll we'll cut parts of it in and but this was amazing, Timothy. I really appreciate your time, man. This is a blast and uh love the way

you think and uh we got to run it back cuz we I think we just did like 4 hours and 45 minutes or something like that. Man, it was my pleasure. You You do just amazing work and um just keep going. Oh, thanks, man. Likewise. Let me get you to the airport. Let's go. Yeah, let's go. Let's get out of here.