Meet The DARPA Scientist Abducted By an Alien

Blitz Colonel John blit Lieutenant Colonel John blitch Lieutenant Colonel John blitch you have maybe the most interesting CV of anybody I've ever interviewed there was this agreement that you don't talk about Fight Club right you don't talk about the ETS that we have all seen that I think the the really interesting phenomena that happens after that is you have all these really tough guys guys who get spooked by really crazy you know entities that they encounter a drop lands on my hand

as I'm on my handlebars and then I realize it's red and it's blood there was no reason for me to have this gushing bloody nose and and this is and and things get uh weird I have this fuzzy memory of of a fuel truck what I thought was a fuel truck and so I kind of walk my bike up around it and in the cab of this fuel truck is this guy with a red plaid shirt who is the guy in the

flannel the Red Flannel yeah um I was not prepared to talk about this in previous John blitch uh it's an honor to have you you have maybe the most interesting CV of anybody I've ever interviewed you were you were uh uh a Delta Force you worked at DARPA for a long time you managed some very interesting programs there you're uh uh uh uh cognitive

psychology uh uh expert and and and and doctorate is that right well I I you know I I'll push back a little bit on the word expert sure because one of my favorite definitions of expert was from Dr Ruth M my first first time through graduate school at the Colorado School of minds and she said uh because I my first um thesis was I built an expert system to recommend which robot to pick to go into rubble and she said you know the definition of

expert I don't I don't know this was you know in front of the whole committee and she goes well X is an unknown quantity and a spurt is a drip Under Pressure so everybody cracked up I was loving it right and so um you know I I don't claim to be an expert in anything uh all I would say is that I've made a lot of mistakes and that's a good path to learning so you you you really came on the public scene around this uh you know

recent UFO whistleblower Revelation we've really crossed a Rubicon of sorts in kind of UFO alien world where you have this guy Jake Jake Barber uh who's went through kind of the combat control pipeline you know air for Special Forces uh ended up being kind of sheep dipped to use like an Intel military World term where he was sort of erased as a person like yeah he was director of helicopter you know uh uh operations or whatever for for you know a specific company

generic company but really he was retrieving UFOs and um he has come out with the story via me and uh Ross Kart and talked about retrieving an egg-shaped craft and then an eight gon you know octagonal craft and you've come out in support of of him and you've had some incredibly interesting experiences yourself that came out in this Ross colart interview and so uh do you want to talk about some of your own you know personal paranormal experiences sure

sure um well first of all I want to thank you for letting me take off my academic jacket right I should have had like leather pads sewn on the sleeves or whatever and relax a little bit hence the shirt right so um you know the interview with Ross was pretty serious right because um I was trying to help these guys and and sort of support them so they didn't get whacked right I mean that was deadly serious stuff yeah so now um in this environment with you I'm

I'm kind of excited to let they hair down a little bit what a little hair I have and uh and have some fun you know so yeah so we can we can get to some of those more um um open-minded speculation wild speculation um sorts of things but you know there's an underpinning of science that's really important yes up underneath this and so um I I I want to push back a little bit the Air Force doesn't use special forces that's that's kind of an army term uh so Air Force is

they use they they have their ground special operators in organizations called special tactics squadrons M and um so Jake is what I was able to verify was his track record in a prec CCT um training program yeah and so that's as far as I was able to validate bya his records uh but that's still very impressive and what's what's important

about that is a lot of the military whenever you at least the way the Army did it um before we would go to scuba school for example Key West the Army figured you know if we're sending these guys down to Vacation land down there for three weeks we're going to make them earn it so it's going to be tough and it was as as one of the most difficult schools I've ever been through because most humans oh I would I hate I shouldn't say hate but I I'm reluctant to to put everything in one absolute

declaration all right but the vast majority of humans are deathly afraid of drowning that's why water boarding works right and so holding your breath under water and forcing you to build up your CO2 it's not lack of oxygen it's an excess of poison the CO2 that builds up in your lungs that can that can put anybody into a frantic State pretty much and that organization did that the the underwater um operations group down there so what

we used to do is we would have PR scuba class and that would kind of wash folks out so that before before you spend all the money to send somebody all the way down to Key West in vacation land and absorb all those resources you want to make sure they're going to pass so typically the pre scuba pre- Ranger pre-ct is usually more difficult and so the fact that Jake made it through that

um is a big feather in his cap and you you believe him that he was then diverted uh to this sort of you know anonymized program where he was working for specific contractors to retrieve non-human craft yes I I believe him uh again I I always make this distinction about what I know versus what I believe and you believe and oh yeah absolutely and and it's not just based on him when we first met I I made all four

of us the his full team of four mhm and I was looking for inconsistencies between those folks it's kind of part of tradecraft that we're trained in you know to try to figure out if you're walking into an ambush it was me against these four guys and they all could have any one of them could have kicked my butt never mind four of them don't believe the Chuck Norris movies I love Chuck Norris but don't believe those movies because one person against two uhhuh is you're having a really tough time you got to be superum to even

beat those o uh for my for my black belt test I had to fight five other black belts at the same time and I got my nose broken by my sensei's uh daughter 18 years old uh and it's it's a very humbling experience so trying to see all four of those folks collaborate I was looking for the slightest little glance between eyes between each other and never saw the slightest hint of a red

collectively at three sigma right so one sigma's what 66. 666 per two is 96 97% so that's an a yeah I'm talking A+ right 99% sure that what he told me on my boat and all of our interactions thereafter I'm I'm up there too on especially the primacia story and then thing where I'm feel like even he would have maybe 1% plus doubt I don't I don't

know where he's at but like was this egg shaped craft non-human it's to me it's you know if it's just like the UAP PF you know is assessing it and then he he's going off his own knowledge which is clearly Advanced when it comes to Aviation you know and then it just looks very anomalous it's still like what is that thing I I don't know you know like what do you think like right well I you know I think the two most important things that I took away from that interview now when I did my interview with Ross yeah I had not seen Jake's or

Fred's yeah or Don Paul's interview so we were all and I understand why R probably wanted to do that yeah uh just like you said you want to kind of do things independently to make sure that there's no coordination coordination cross talk right and so I I get that um but I was I was deeply emotionally moved by his tears yeah I felt like I was possessed by the most beautiful spirit i' hadd ever been possessed by and when he was talking

about that feeling of love coming from whatever the whatever the craft it was I don't think it was coming from the egg he was telling that was the was the the 8on octagon shape crap um so that was extremely power powerful and extremely important yes that you know this Independence Day Invasion you know rhetoric and narrative we really need to squash that down and then the second most important thing or

actually I think that was the second most important thing because the the viability and so forth and I picked up on that when we were out of my boat you know we originally I was trying to convince them to come forward help convince them but the most important thing was his reputation of ontological shock m and he said and and I I asked him immediately after I saw him called and said hey can I use that quote in my book if I ever get this damn book published um I don't believe in ontological shock

I believe in ontological relief and I couldn't agree with him more that I think you know current Society is look we are sick and tired we have lost all faith and confidence in our government not just our government but the world's governments across the board so we're we're way ready for this right and so I that that was my most important takeaway from what he said and and and you know

the other aspect of that that's kind of interestes and hypothetically you know since we're happy speculation here right you know maybe that craft itself could have been a living being right you know you hear that yeah from time the so the the woowoo literature you know in my two libraries my peer-reviewed academic literature on one side of my basement and then my woooo literature on the other side those are really starting to

overlap now yeah you know and and so there's plenty plenty of data um in the woooo literature that supports that these craft may be living entities well let's get into that because you've had experiences since you were a kid and I want to get into those core experiences as well but just the idea that these might be living beings I I find it so interesting people are so indexed on like was it non-human or was

it human and then what if you see what if you get what you want and you see that High Fidelity you know 8K video of a thing and a hanger or like you step inside the thing what does that get you what you have no idea what you're looking at at that point and so to the extent you've been studying this stuff for decades because you call yourself part of the invisible College uh you know what um what what are we looking at what's the greater ontology or worldview or like metaphysics that comes with

aliens which have to just be like the tip of the iceberg fellow Alchemists it's a new year and that means it's time to get organized and take control of our financial Wellness for me rocket money has been an Absol absolute Game Changer it helped me uncover all sorts of subscriptions I totally forgot about like a few I had no idea I was paying for months after I stopped using the services with rocket money I canceled these in just a few clicks saving money instantly rocket money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel

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a big Iceberg right because all we see is the very tip right so it's it's a a small portion but on logically speaking mhm uh based on not just the peer-reviewed stuff and the woo woo but the intersections between those uh my belief is that we a um an upand cominging species in a

Society uh teaming with life and it's it's it's simply a numbers game right so web telescope when I was growing up and you look at all those little dots and I'm fascinated and the little dots are you think there are stars you told they're Stars so those oh those must be systems uh and then uh as we go from Hubble to web and we realize whoa wait a minute those aren't solar systems those are galaxies so a

galaxy with billions of solar systems in them and then the dust that you see in the background those are galaxies right and so it's just mindblowing yeah the magnitude of that right and so the likelihood that and and then when you take the age of all this are what four billion years here right and and you um extrapolate from that it's it is a

ridiculous notion that we are alone I so I agree with that and you have the Drake equation the fery parad all these things mathematically pointing to you know it being aam's Razer that we're not alone you know the the the the the most likely answer is that we're not alone and simultaneous to that how do we know that our cosmological models are right at all because we're probably our physical models of the universe are always wrong at any given time they've just always

been wrong historically so they're probably wrong now and I think about like a rocket that's two degrees off course and then it ends it up it ends up 99 degre you know it's like air propagation ends up like way off course because it's two degrees off course and then that multiplies down the line Absolut it's not linear so like what what if that's true with our models of physics where our understanding of you know the microscopic might be way off like we we can bar we can't figure out quantum gravity for example there are like issues with our understanding of the physical Universe on like a really

small scale so given those issues wouldn't you end up with a scaling problem in physics itself where our cosmological models end up like this crazy kind of glued together Patchwork quilt MH and we're probably so off on like even you know a lot of that stuff and yes you can see some of it obviously with James web and Hubble and that sort of thing but I mean who knows like you have this idea of an observer dependent Universe like the wheeler thing or you

know delayed Choice stuff and if any of that if that or like these you know the anthropic principle you know the idea that like you know maybe physics and the universe itself is comported to our uh perceptual filters you know then like what what do we know at all about anything like it's just like extremely you know complicated like maybe I don't know what do you think well so uh let me back up to the firmy Paradox which I claim is absolute BS I love the guy

respect yeah the science yeah but it is based on a very flawed assumption which is okay if there's really is this Cosmic Galactic Society where are they right why aren't they landing on the White House lawn well the underlying assumption with all of that is that they want to reveal themselves from a special forces parachute Behind Enemy Lines and study a society and then pick them

choose them and then train them to rise up against their own tyrannical government we don't want to be found and so my overlay of my bias is sometimes they want to be found sometimes they don't just like we did sometimes we want to be seen blowing up a bridge to show that that country cannot defend its own people right or maybe we St behind and

we get some of their own folks to do it so it's part of this influence yeah yeah well there's also you know you have like the three body problem this great Chinese sci-fi Trilogy and in that you have the Dark Forest analogy and this idea that it's actually adaptive often for aliens to hide themselves or to infiltrate and to do you know sort of deceptive scheming and not to just like land on the White House lawn right and especially if you're dealing deal with this like sort of you know unevolved like if if humans are like not where we

need to be and you present yourself and you're seen as this kind of foreign Invader or whatever like that's not going to go well right so you'd rather just like incept them with ideas kind of subtly manipulate them or whatever but go about your business and it's actually adaptive from a experimental results trash your own experiment by revealing yourself right

and so we have this notion of informed consent we were talking about this last night about the the um maybe there's a galactic IRB institutional review board that that that's really fascinating so it's almost like yeah you can't bias the experiment so you can't show yourself that's F that's so interesting do you think that we are humans an experiment some sort of genetic experiment um my belief is that

absolutely absolutely from from what occurred with me yeah and again a lot of the um experiencer uh literature yeah is strongly suggestive of that and a lot of us I don't want to speak for all experiences all abductees abductees are a subgroup of experiences there are plenty of people that have interactions yeah right that are positive and and Kumbaya and good for you yeah there are

others of us that have been terrified right and feel like Lab Rats however in retrospect you know I was young and and combative yeah uh and angry yeah I have a whole chapter about the Angry Young Man where I talk about you know breaking hockey sticks and baseball bats in my backyard because I was so upset because I was I I was F VI paralyzed and violated and raped right and all those aspects of it yeah and so

I can't deny that maybe that was a motivation to become a fighter yeah and end up in the line of work that I ended up in in hostage rescue right it is this extremely common Trope in abduction experiences where they say you know uh gametes are collected often in unceremonious ways so you know sperm and eggs and there it's often sexual in nature and genetic material or tissue is sometimes collected and so that that's

it almost points to us being yeah some sort of experiment genetic experiment yeah absolutely so so personally I don't have any recollection of anything sexual with any of my uh experiences but that doesn't limit me from being compassionate towards other people have yeah um so when you say raped you just mean your space was totally violated and yeah a violation of well any manipulation of your body without your consent right arguably that's of that of that nature uh so so uh there

are a lot of folks that feel that way uh but for me in in my experience the most the terrifying one it was I I consider it a gift because it woke me up to the that you know this body is just a soul housing mechanism right it's a biological um craft or vessel right with which you learn right and if you make some really stupid mistakes like I did

and almost lost my my leg um then it's it's a mechanism to learn through right and so this is so it it was very much a gift but as a youngster MH a combative Commando where I was all about you know violence for just AI believe for good reasons right I'm gon to we're going to break in and rescue these folks right and if we have to take another human life then so be it that's a necessary

evil for the for the as Spock would say the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few right so the the few bad folks if we got to whack them to to get the good folks out that's that's the way my mind works so I believe that they had to penetrate my resistance on the same level so they had to use violence to come after me to wake me up to to that whole uh notion so overall the

experience is an enormously positive one but when you're young you don't realize that yeah right it's kind of like as a parent you got to watch your kid fail you know like they're going to they're going to touch that hot stove you've told them a hundred times all right let her do it see what happens okay sweetie I told you right and that's just part of the part of the process sometimes so so that's the way I felt about it so John you had your own alien

experience um yeah yeah I think and and I can put that into to the knowledge side versus the belief side so I talk about you know how I don't remember being born so all I can do is believe that I was born in Idaho Falls um in 1959 because I don't have a memory of that right but I do remember walking all those punishment

missing time mountain bike ride and and a uh a terror filled night after which I woke up with bruises and so the mountain bike ride essentially was at least 5 hours of missing time if not more and so I'd gone for a ride on my mountain bike and I on the way back it was a it was a it wasn't a very physically demanding

was a parking garage back there and I Came Upon This wheelbarrow and right as I was you know I already signed in I was I was allowed to volunteer since I had tssci clearances and because it was a crime scene you know they were really keeping all the volunteers away unless you had a secret clearance because it was crime scene right and so they trusted that so anyway so I was all excited and and ready to start helping out and uh so I walked up to this

wheelbarrow and I heard this this voice from behind me from the entrance you know scream stop and so I froze in my tracks right as I was about to grab it and uh because I thought the wheel barrel must be being used to get rid of the debris and somebody had just filled it up and hadn't gotten over there and then um I realized that uh you know there was a there was a stench and it took a little bit to get through my mask and it was it

was a a smell of Rotting Flesh it was horrible and then I happened to glance up and there was this beautiful purple uh chiffon material that I it took me a few seconds to realize that that was a human body and that was she had been blown up into the uh rebar steel reinforced concrete and the reason the wheel bow was there was to collect her entrails so

there were there was a lot of human tissue and a pool of blood and so that's why the voice didn't want me to move that so uh that stuck with me um over the years or over the yeah so when I got back so I was dealing with stuff like that and uh so I took this mountain bike Rod pretty standard for me on a on a weekend right go get a workout meditate up on top of this beautiful um Park called Daniel's park still there uh very

built up now since then over geez 30 years now where's Daniels Park that's Daniel Park is South uh let me see Southwest uh South Southwest of Denver okay so it's a it it was a uh sort of a little yepy um neighborhood that we had uh we had bought a housing so uh and it was very remote at that time n that now it's it's its own City uh but at that time it was just this Old Ranch so uh happened to be uh collocated with a ancient Indian

burial ground and so I have a bit of uh Native American blood in me my great-grandfather uh took a sue wife when he was uh traveling west as part of I don't know if there was the Gold Rush or what so uh very always very respectful of Native American cultures not to mention I saw Jeremiah Johnson and what happened to the the folks when they violated that Indian barrr didn't go well right maybe we could talk about that in this notion of you know Advanced

uh cultures meeting less Advanced cultures and usually doesn't go good for the the less Advanced ones right y anyway so uh I had ridden by it several times and just noted it not a big deal but this time for some reason and I I stole to the this day I don't understand why I turned around and suddenly felt an obession that I had to go in so I I grabbed my mountain bike and I climbed

up over this fence got on the other side and I I climbed into the saddle and I was going to ride down I was like nope that's not respectful you don't ride a bike in a cemetery matter of fact you'll get fed you'll get thrown out of any National Cemetery try to ride a bike in Harlington good luck on that you will do some time in a slaming literally for up because it's just so disrespectful all veterans whatever so uh I started walking and then I felt a drip on my nose and um again scientifically with

aam's Razer trying to slice through anything even now but I wasn't I wasn't sweating why I it wasn't hot I was coming downhill it was if anything was a little bit you know cooled so why am I sweating and it and it uh a drop lands on my hand as I'm on my handlebars and then I realize it's red and it's blood I'm like oh crap I got a bloody notes but it wasn't just like a drip every few

seconds it suddenly became a gusher I'm like what the hell is this I didn't fall off my bike we've been living here for a year and so it wasn't like I'm suddenly dry I'm thinking of all these mechanisms right and so there there are a lot of experiencers and abductees who do this to ourselves we try to scientifically dismiss it Rand Nickerson one of John Max's patients um and I talked about this at length that we we

don't want to believe it so we try to to categorize ourselves some other way so I'm trying to convince myself I hadn't fallen off my bike there was no reason for me to have this gushing bloody nose but I laid down and I was out immediately like it didn't take a more than a second to me be unconscious uh and I woke up freezing I woke up shivering which is common you know the

the Front Range of Colorado was pretty desert-like and so after the sunset it you know it wasn't it might have been I don't know 60° or whatever but without moving you know um and it and I I felt like I had bonked somehow you know that I had reached a level of exhaustion which didn't make sense for a half hour 45 minute bike ride right didn't make any sense at all so I end up uh in this continuing in this anomalous

Behavior so as a behavioral scientist I know what is normal for most folks and I certainly know what's normal for me and it's it didn't make any sense that I would haul that bike up to this Mesa where this bright light was shining a bunch of bright lights and in my mind I felt since I was attending the Colorado School of Minds that it must have been a drilling ri right and and it

it didn't occur to me why they must have gotten some permit to drill in this Indian burial ground I can't imagine how they did that but let's go check it out excuse me so I was a moth to the Flint and I dragged that mountain bite threw all the scrub Oak scratch of me I get up on top there and and this is and and things get uh weird it's already kind of weird

but now it's really weird because I had fuzzy memory of a fuel truck what I thought was a fuel truck and so I kind daintily kind of walk my bike up around it and I look up into the cab of the fuel truck at about I don't know 20 degree angle maybe or whatever and in the cab of this fuel truck is this guy with a red plaid

and I I that point I become very anxious Afraid and I turn around and I walk my bike back around the back of that fuel truck and I sense that there's a clearing over in front of theu fuel truck with a bunch of other lights or whatever so I'm imagining you know some sort of drilling operation you know maybe there's two or three vehicles over there with a big you know drill or

but I don't have any I don't have any crisp memory of that which is just weird um and so I'm going back through the scrub rush I know that there's kind of a clearing and there appears to be a road there but rather than walking my bike over to the road I keep walking it through the scrub brush and makes no sense but I'm growing I'm I'm very of afraid of those lights in that

area over there so I skirt around as soon as I get to an open enough segment of the road that I can I jump on that bike and I am pedaling to save my life and I am just terrified screaming as fast as I can go I go down this hill and I see a a uh a light on at a at a ranch house and I'm thinking to myself okay I've left whatever that was by behind me now I start thinking uh I need

to call Cindy my wife and let her know cuz I mean it's it's not like a half hour after Sunset it is several hours Sunset and so I'm just going to stop in on this ranch house and ask them to use the phone you know this is 1995 there's no cell phones right so I'm I go down this you know it's kind of a long dirt driveway and I stopped on half way down because I realized there's no lights on I'm thinking you know at worst I might

interrupt him in the middle of dinner no lights on so then I realized oh wow it must be really late and so I stop I turn around and I go I go back out to the main dirt road and I and I pretty much Coast most of the way back to this hard ball this highway called uh Highway 885 right it's a four lane Highway and uh very little traffic which is another surprise I mean if it's if

it's just after dark why isn't there any traffic I mean there might have been one car every five minutes or so and so finally I'm starting to feel safe because I'm on this pavement and and there's people around and I'm like okay all right so and then it that's when I I hit the wall it was it was a full out bunk kind of like Heartbreak Hill in the Boston Marathon and you're like I I just ran into a wall so I could barely stay on my bike so I'm

cranking you know one two three I set up a rhythm and I climb the shallow Hill and I take a turn and I see this 7-Eleven so I sto at 7-Eleven and I'm exhausted and super dehydrated so I I go in I get off my bike I see a a police car police cruiser in front and as I'm walking past the police cruiser windows are down it's still fairly warm um and I I thought I heard my name as I

walked by but I didn't stop you know tradecraft kicks in and I just I I I'm slow for a little bit and I just open the door and go in and I get these three 32 ounce Gatorade orange Gatorade jugs and I I downed one of them before I even got to the cash register and threw a 20 on the on the uh counter and walked out how old are you at this play uh let me see so this was 95 so I was born in 59 so what's that 30 36 yeah is yeah

from anybody I'm G to carry my own ruck sack all the way home blah blah blah but what I really said was hell yeah I'd love a rideo CU I was flipping exhausted so he threw it back and and I go home and that was that conscious memory I don't even going in the house and climbing into bed I don't remember anything but I do remember a

dream that I thought was a dream around that same time but it it wasn't it was an anomalous dream you know I've come to realize uh those the differences between memories right and these fuzzy memories and so then I had this memor this dream that I thought had occurred like weeks later or at least several days

mantis in the back yeah I don't remember any mantis in that but um but he uh was chastising me and he was he was sort of lecturing me in sort of a condescending um instructional way commanding me to stop wiggling around uh and he and he's telling me look you're this body that you've got

it's it's nothing but a soul container and we can't do anything to hurt that or steal it or damage it we can do a lot of damage to your body if we want to we don't want to we're trying to help you so quit around and we're we're gonna do some tuneups here we're going to work on it a little bit what do you think the tups were how were they trying to help I I I don't know he just and I never got that

terrifying were you bleeding and I I felt the tug on my face but she's ripping skin off your face yeah I felt the tug what and and there's and there's splashing and uh and the whole time he's like see this is what we could do to you easily but we're not doing that afterwards were you bloody due to that no NE never any indication of of anything this is like mental imagery

that I'm receiving okay um so this doesn't feel like a physical no it did feel like it it it it felt like he wanted me to feel he wanted to simulate that you could okay right he wanted he wanted he wanted me to know that they could yeah rip me to shreds if they wanted to but they couldn't get to my soul and even if even if I died in that process I'm G to come back there's there's a soul that's gonna come back and who knows I might come back as one

of them and and come at them so that was all that in in a very intense moment that lesson that just quit squirming around and let us get this freaking done okay and then boom I was out that was it so that was um what made that uh so powerful is sleep

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to wap.com Jesse Michels Michaels with no a to become a member today that's wap.com j s m i c h e LS thank you so much and enjoy the rest of today's episode not that I know it but here's a really interesting aspect to this phenomenon is that pretty much across the the vast majority of cases that I've read about um there is a there is a common that I like to coin or I like to capture

in the term irrational ambivalence and what happens to a lot of experiencers is they have these anomalous events that occur and that are corroborated by a nextdoor neighbor your family your loved ones your teammates and they're like don't you remember this or that don't you remember that you walked back into the Foxhole

don't you remember that we were looking for you don't you remember the and there's it there's often a like yeah but so what and so it's it's an irrational response to something that be at the Forefront of all of your behavior you should be looking into that I should have been checking for my cheeks or whatever nothing I did tell my wife about that

dream and she was like yeah okay and it was this ambivalence this this La Fair attitude towards it all so it's almost as if in a hypnotic suggestion you're told in many cases we are told don't worry about this don't you won't need to remember this and I think it's an act of compassion so that we can lead relatively normal lives after we are let out of the cage right the Lab Rats get

released into the backyard right and go live your life that's what yeah Mario Woods stationed at uh Ellsworth Air Force Base in South Dakota he had an experience where he was abducted he's a mutual friend he's I know you guys are friends as well and he said that the the beings came up to them they kept saying do not fear do not fear that was like this recurring kind of trip the words do not fear travel through my body like a vibration like a uh like a hiss but I

kept hearing over and over do not fear do not fear uh do not fear that's wow do you have a sense because he says he was he became interested in things after that experience that he wasn't prior and he realizes he's like I know this sounds kind of weird but he's like I got very interested in pyramids is there something like that for you where you became newly interested in certain topics uh did you have a mission that you didn't prior um I I didn't become interested in

pyramids uh not right away uh but I did yeah change my behavior that in a way that was reported to me by my wife and my daughters which was I wouldn't squash a bug or use a f water ah I would I would go to the kitchen grab a glass tell my daughters don't squish them I would escort these bugs

out of the house specifically all animals or bugs uh uh pretty much all animals um because I was going to say if it was the bug thing then it might have been the Mantis specifically that you felt in affinity for right but it was like dogs too you felt like more loving towards or or was it bugs that's a that's a good question and I don't my my my first wife passed away in 2014 I'm sorry um wonderful an Angelic soul and I

sometimes I I wonder if my current wife is her reincarnated wow uh or if there was some because they're so similar wonderful absolutely wonderful people um and so I I I should have asked my daughters that if my attitude towards our Labrador Retriever um changed at all I don't I don't I don't have a conscious memory of anything changing but I do remember the bug Behavior the insect Behavior which is really interesting and up to that point I mean I thought like

you for this environment to be able to do that um so I I do want to talk about a little bit of the science behind this if it's okay so uh after I told that story uh on a previous interview and I I've I've been coached and cautioned many times look don't look at the social media don't look at any of the responses to this don't go go back and look at it and so for for the longest time I didn't but I

it's half hour and hour but it's really splits it seconds often yes there's there's a lot of time Distortion in human memory and and that's that's also correlated with risk and um so if you if you do one of these Adventure rides like a roller coaster or you get dropped uh it seems like time slows down but that makes sense evolutionarily right because you want to know all the details when you're

beard it doesn't explain bruises right it doesn't explain Terry lel's cell phone Health Data that shows he climbed six stories in less than a minute in a house that has one story there's no stairs in this house so so I thank you for your opinion but paralysis is BS it does not apply to the vast

us allow hypnotic regression evidence to be admissible in court uh and so I I don't want to to to mislead you into thinking that that was the only bit of evidence that convicted those folks and put them on death row but it was some of the evidence that's in there and so the way Andrew uh human describes hypnosis is it's a it's a it's a period of relaxed Focus which those sound

counterintuitive right uh but it is definitely in verifiable by EEG and a variety of neuroc crisp objective empirical neurophysiological measures you know when you're in that that role and so so what it does is it allows the the hippocampus to stitch back together I was I was giving the analogy yesterday about the the ram you know Random Access Memory being stored out on the hard

drive and so that's what the hippocampus does those two little horns in the in the um down near the brain stem basil ganglia area of your brain up underneath and then the cortex up here so I used to use my fist as my model for for my cadetes and I would have them stroke the back of their parietal area and the motor control and do punches and all the rest of this but the the hippocampal regions deep inside right and so that's where a lot of your memory starts to consolidate and it get it migrates from

that random axis area out to the cortical structures and so what you can do with hypnosis is when you when you save that word document or you save that Spreadsheet um in a and and just this is the best model I've got there's probably some holes in it but it's it's the best we got youris so when you save that word document it doesn't get saved in contiguous sectors on that hard drive they're spread all over the place because you just got to spread it to where it's open right if you deleted a

file blah blah blah so they're spread all over the place and so if the gets damaged or interfered with and it is a very vulnerable suborgan of the brain to um pharmacological chemical interdiction right and so if that hippocampus region gets tampered with you can start to disrupt its recall so it's got to go out to this file allocation table the fat and xat a file

allocation table when you're formatting your our drive that's what that means so when it's going to this file allocation table kind of like the table of contents says I want to go to chapter 3 section one there's nothing there ah crap well let me see I I'll go to chapter 2 section five oh we got that so put little bits and pieces back together and so what what hypnosis is really good for is if you have a memory

already and it's problematic and you and you you're not sure that some of the details are fuzzy it can sharpen those details the rape victim can through hypnosis and relaxing you and suppressing all of the anxiety and the fear and the anger and and all of those interference um that'll obus the the collection of this and interfere with stitching those memories back together

and if if all you want to do is focus on that license plate boom and you can and so so that license plate number isn't going to convict that person all by itself but it can end up being the critical piece of information that places that person at that crime scene doing that sort of activity and so that's that context so all of that to come back to the red

um it was a uniform it was a red uniform being MN by a bug also mantis another mantis or the same one I'm I'm not sure I now believe well probably a different one if the I now believe that that was the same one ah and that this dream the separate dream did not happen a few days later it

was all in that same but in the second enounter with the Mantis did it presumably removed its uniform or was it also in a red uniform no I I I think he had that uniform on but it was only it was and this is weird it sounds weird I know but uh I'm you know with all the risk that all these other guys have taken you know um I I feel a need to climb out on the

limb myself and share this info I mean it's an important aspect of it so the the uniform was primarily on the back side um kind of covering the grasshopper Wings you know the front it needed its hands to do whatever it's going to do to my body and it and its jaws or whatever and so there there was a there was like a a collar to it and there was red on back and that's that's you know we

we talk a lot about screen memories right and and how these can be imposed and this is this is the downside to uh hypnosis is if somebody is very hypnotizable yes you can you can cause them to confabulate and and make connections be between things that might not necessarily be there but the fact of the matter is that all hypnosis Leo uh Leo sprinkle told me this I'm like first regression session he wasn't the one

that that did this with this mantis thing all hypnosis is self- hypnosis you cannot hypnotize somebody that doesn't want to be hypnotized and that's well established in all the scientific literature uh what you can do is get somebody to relax enough to focus enough uh in in recall and so uh so so I now believe that that that event was all the same event and

so um the This Tall be standing over me might have happened right there at that fuel truck uh and I don't have any further details about the fuel truck or about the lights or anything else but that red shirt was this collored uniform on this thing wow incred it's so fascinating I mean there's so many questions I think I hope the audience mulls this over and thinks about it and

I will as well because it's such an interesting it was that the only alien abduction experience you've had or uh the other one was uh much later 20 years later uh is 2013 MH and it was when I woke up with the three bruises on the underside of my um bicep and the one bruise on my tricep and what I didn't tell Ross about that is I I intimated I I I um sort of indicated that there were

some other sort of mysterious uh circumstances with with effort and and so I'll I'll share that with you that details and this was uh this was no hypnosis involved this is conscious memory that I have right now I've never gone back on a regression to remember any of that uh but I do remember standing out in my on my deck in my house so I had this really cool house looking down

into a a mountain bike um course for his sons or whatever and I remember standing on my deck and looking up and there was a it looked like a miniature hurricane it was a very dark cloud with uh a swirl around it and a dark hole in the middle kind of a kind of a like the eye of the storm and I remember him yelling over to me are are you because we're both looking up and he looks over me and he

goes are you seeing what I'm seeing I go yeah that right so I point up he goes yeah and it looks like it looks like the eye of it is right over the spot between our two houses and then uh so I looked off in the distance towards uh Loveland which is a um another city south of Fort Collins and it Blue Sky down there so that was only maybe I don't know I should go back and look at a map maybe five or 10 miles something like that and

then I look back to the north and there's Blue Sky over there about the same distance around so look like maybe I don't know a diameter of a 20 Mish storm straight over our houses and again here we go again right irrational ambivalence h we both go back inside right instead of me going over to chat with him like we did all the time about mountain bike and about he's he's a uh he was a former Army guy was in the the

um uh the honor company there that used to do all the funerals for at Arlington National cemeter great dude and and so it would have made all the sense in the world for us to just sit there have a maybe have another beer and talk about it right at least until it started raining nothing we both went back inside instead of doing the the neighborly chat type of thing that we've done hundreds of times and um I remember later on fairly soon

thereafter going into this sort of OCD behavior that is very common in the literature so if if you read any of of Kathy Martin's books uh yvon Smith uh all of John Max stuff right A lot of these these folks that have have spent their lives researching the abduction phenomen you find this very very common um that I I had to close all the

drapes and not just have them closed I had to sometimes I would tape it I would tape the drapes how whack is that right I couldn't afford to have the slightest little sliver of a gap because I didn't want those big black you know almond communion eyes from Whitley streber book staring at me through that window and I would check them and recheck them and I would lock all the doors Etc um I didn't find out until much later when my dad passed away that uh he

would he would go check all his guns he would he would make sure his big old 44 magnum was loaded right all this type of stuff it's a it's an inherent thing and then and so um I remember I resolved myself I knew they were coming it's this feeling you get chill down your spot and I'm like you know what I know I'm I'm helpless and this is part of the terror right I'm helpless I know there's nothing I G do so screw it I'm just going to go to bed you guys just get it

over with and let's and and let me get back to my life right next morning I wake up I'm in my skibbies I go straight downstairs uh I had shut down my my rescue robotics team my second nonprofit laid everybody off because of my my female that's another long crazy story but um I I went and got this this video camera that I hadn't used in five years and fish it out put a battery in it and

I come upstairs and I immediately start videotaping my arm the inside of my arm because of those three bruises I why would I even know they were there that's a weird thing and why is it only on one arm not the other arm and why did I immediately go tape it right and it's almost as if I knew that I had had this post hypnotic suggestion and I wanted to to take the

um before I forgot right it's like I'm trying to outsmart them get ahead of them right it's the weirdest thing what what did they what was the core experience like what did they do to you in this case I don't remember oh so you don't remember that I I don't remember any of the core experience okay um I I do have some other very um terrifying experiences as a kid you know waking up with the little gray guys in my room just like Gary Nolan said now he has

assured me he has no abduction memories at all and and I do not want to speak for for him I just want thank him for um being for but he does say that he remembers graay in his room and I think he was riding his bike he like a paper route situation or something he saw a saucer fly overhead and yep so you you had experiences like that as a kid as well yes do do you think that because you grew up right next to a nuclear reactor in Idaho well I was born next to

a nuclear reactor but I grew up in PE pey that's the way you say it yeah uh only Matt and Ben Affleck can do pull off a good Boston accent like that or maybe Bill Burr right uh pey right and then it's right next to to to Salem uh so uh that's where I grew up and I I did my my dad and my mom were both professors uh my mom taught sociology at nor Eastern my dad was an aerospace physicist and a nuke uh and he was

teaching MIT what did he what was he doing oh he was an aerospace physicist that's so interesting he worked at Labs uh and then he was I think I I didn't know anything about Academia at the time but I think he was an Adjunct professor he had three master's degrees and so that was enough credentials to teach at MIT I don't think I don't think anybody can teach at MIT now without a PhD did he have any interest in UFOs oh yeah what years were he teaching at was he teaching at MIT uh pretty much my whole

childhood so so 60s 7s until I went off to West Point in 77 so do you do you attribute any of these experiences to the fact that your father was an aerospace physicist with an interest in UFOs you were born next to which nuclear power plant and uh it wasn't a power plant it was the first uh nuclear test reactor that the Army had spun up uh and was all classified at the time and that was in uh the early 60s late 50s and Idaho Ido Falls idah Idaho Falls yeah so

okay so you have the father who's interested in UFOs with serious bonafides you have you know born next to a nuclear reactor and then you also have uh some Native American Heritage do you think any of those things played a part in your experiences and and to to bolster the Skeptics out there uh Betty and Barney Hill and so I read about that at the same time MH and so yes I used

all of that to totally dismiss all of my childhood experiences from a scientific standpoint I dismissed all of my childhood even though your father took this stuff seriously yeah really I I just blew it off really until 2018 and why 2018 did you start to take it Ser because of Leslie Kane and The New York Times article saying that we had official programs or 2018 for me was a very very it was a sort of a threshold

year because Leslie's article with Lou came out in December of 2017 and this was I started teaching my next semester of 2018 and I was expecting the entire Air Force Academy to all of a sudden radically change its curriculum and start talking about the the billions and billions and trillions of galaxies and start warming up the the cadet populace

to this notion I mean if anybody is going to wake up to the to the notion of potential visitation by extraterrestrials it should be the United States Air Force Academy right to my I shouldn't say horror but to my surprise and and deep disappointment why is that a greater source of conviction for like an article in the New York Times versus your own experiences which so so and then did you

I really started digging in that was a little after that was 97 97 right um but you know I had a focus on grad school right you have to maintain a laser focus to get through that right so um but but that sort of woke me up to start relooking into this stuff right I mean I used to read UFO books during all my boring time in the military right everybody else was you know reading boy in penth house I'm reading UFO books so you were interested in it I was interested in but I didn't internalize

it to me uhhuh until after 95 okay until after that exp and it was like those experiences existed in some Lial state or were you actively repressing them as if they hadn't happened and then they sort of resurfaced in 95 or I I don't know okay what I do know is I bought a lot of UFO books interesting so you on some level you you bought it I didn't I didn't internalize it I didn't I didn't relate it to myself uhhuh um and I even consciously discuss yeah that

mountain bike incident did your dad have experiences uh because it's funny you know I just interviewed Jacob Barber and he said you know probably as a result of his work with crash retrievals and UFOs he has this sort of wing sphere thing show up at his house we have stuff show up over our house we have um a UAP we call the angel that shows up and it looks like it has or Wings it's blue and it comes in

materializes hangs out over the house it's seen by neighbors it's seen by everybody and then it's gone it shoots into outer space I I talked to Jake's son about this when we were at his house and and and there's a lot of commonality but I don't I don't want to speak for him at all but I but I do recall having a lot of similarities with my childhood with his which is really interesting um but back to my dad all I know is he had a lot of UFO books and I got the impression that he didn't want to discuss it with me until I was old

enough and then by that time I had my own career blah blah blah and so did he ever discuss it with you uh oh yeah what did he say yeah um he would always maintain this um strict rigid rubric of scientific parsimony right and so he would he would in an open open-minded way intent entertain

possibilities but then he would have these discussions about like we were talking about probabilities right what's what's this and so forth and so I I think it was his way of dealing with the fear by trying to rationalize everything and just always conclude not sure don't know right but leave it as a possibility I'll you know worship the the Carl San you know perspective of the world that

um what's what's the the cliche now is that um extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof yeah so 2018 mean I got the extraordinary proof I don't think a New York Times article is extraordinary proof I think I haven't gotten to that yet I think your experience is I haven't gotten to it yet okay the New York Times article is 2017 right in 2018 yeah I attended a conference where um a guy got up to the podium and he

as um a former Air Force s ENT at Whitman Air Force Base who was a PRP qualified medic PRP is the Personnel reliability program it's the it's the have crazy people controlling nukes right uh and and here's this guy and he starts telling the story about this

camping trip that he and his other buddy another sergeant or a first class or whatever took this camping trip and how uh uh injured as a result of this experience where the bottom of his feet were burned sunburned um and so I don't want to I don't want to tell story Terry's story

is Terry love La Terry love La yeah and he and I have become very good friends since then um but what really what really got my attention was when he told the story about being on a table and Dr bug comes over and start and he's screaming as loud as he can and Dr bug looks over at him and says stop screaming you know we're not going to hurt you we've told you we're not going to hurt you quit

screwing around and and stop your screaming let just let us get this done and he reaches over with a digit whatever it was I don't know if it was a claw or what Taps him on the head and Terry says he was out like a light and all of a sudden I'm in the I had already moved up from the back row right somebody had left and I took their seat I was on the front left and looking right at them I'm may be from here to the wall away and and I'm I'm starting to get the

Goosebumps right and the Shivers running up and down my spine and then when he tells this the B doctor bug part of the story I'm I'm freaking out I'm my you know I'm I'm really tense I'm sweating you know and uh I get the hero standing up on my my arms and so that's when all the the mountain bike stuff came flooding back M and was shortly after that I would say within a few months after that when I

Anderson trust and so those are guys like John Anderson John LoveIt kind of early CIA guys and then Carl Compton comes to the scene president of MIT and all of a sudden he's you know in charge or has to do with this somehow and so I do wonder if MIT has some sort of connection with this whole thing and if this sort of runs in families as it's rumored Whitley streber obviously wrote communion you know maybe the archetype alien abduction case uh if not you know Betty and Barney Hill but he you know talks about his uncle working with very

closely with General AXS on at right right Airfield um and his his father was a reservist you know in Air Force guy and you know so I don't know do you think there's something there with you um I I don't know is my succinct answer um but since we're in specul Spa speculation space here uh I have nothing in my experience that is inconsistent with

that uh I there is no Flags in any of all the literature that I've read about all that that is inconsistent so it's sort of like with Jake and his team I don't see any inconsistencies there there's there's um as I was mentioning to you yesterday there's a lot of smoke but no flame that I personally observed at DARPA or the afrl experience when I was

assigned at R Patterson for three years yeah you worked we got to talk about that yeah uh yeah because your your your career is so fascinating because I know you've never seen a UFO firsthand or been read into anything but you were stationed at right Patterson Air Force Bas and you were vice president at saic which always comes up with the UFO stuff for only six months only six months yeah fair enough but it is it I I find that interesting it's almost like you were hovering in and around the topic you're

always around the perimeter of this stuff but like yeah you never get let in yeah uh uh always a bridesmaid never a right that was kind of kind of the way it has it has evolved and I'm would you hear rumors at right like people cuz like yeah any any any anecdotes that might give you some conviction that something is going on there outside of the stuff in the lore like you know you have Barry Goldwater you know saying that he asked Curtis lame for you know

what what was being held in the Blue Room at R Patterson I called Curtis lame and I said General uh I know we have a room at Wright Patterson where you put all this secret stuff can I go in there I've never heard him get mad but he got mad and Hell of me cussed me out said don't ever ask me that question again do you have any stories like that uh yeah I'm very aare

well excuse me I'm very well aware of that story uh and a lot of the rumors around um R Patterson uh Leonard Stringfield uh uh very prominent very well resective UFO researcher uh from that or that region um I do have uh yeah some anomalous uh factors and some anomalous sort of behavior but the but

the closest to what you were just talking about with the man Goldwater was a um a situation where I I had you know I've had a lot of Orthopedic procedures I busted up Humpty you know and it doesn't speak well to my athletic prowess that I've had so many problems right you look good to me man for for for your age I'm super impressed you're in good shape man so um uh I I really needed to I didn't want

to go to a doctor on base I was I was dating matter of fact she became my fiance um lived about uh 50 miles away just over 50 miles away and the radius of Tri care uh Insurance uh coverage was such that if you if you lived if you lived outside of a 35 mile radius I think it was 35 it

might have been a little further maybe you you had to go to the military Hospital on that base otherwise Tri care wouldn't pay for your care and so I switched my address to her address so I found a doctor just outside that radius and uh everything was great and so I report into him I I didn't report is you know the new patient processing

got to go in and they list all your stuff and I listed like my 20 surgeries and they're like oh well that's that's interesting and I was like the same thing yeah that's just a reflection of my lack of athletic ability and that's how I ended up with all this stuff busted so then the doctor comes in he's looking through everything he says oh uh and he realized right away what I was doing he goes so you're just outside the radius right I was like yeah he goes yeah I get a lot of you guys I get a lot of guys from right back who come to see

me um because I don't want to go to the base on uh or the hospital on base he goes let me ask you something um had they let you see the alien bodies yet and and I I kind of wasn't ready for that uh but I smiled kind of like I I think I'm smiling now and I was like no I don't I haven't I haven't gotten read in on that or whatever and then he and then he just he was looking at me very seriously and then he goes oh I'm just

kidding right and uh and we get to talk and then he goes you know uh I asked that everybody to kind of lighten up the mood right he goes but do you mind if I tell you a story I was like yeah sure you're I mean you're the doc right you don't have a scalpel held to my neck so uh yeah give it a go he goes well there was this a two star general that came in here uh about six months ago and I did that same thing and

he got furious with me he stood up and he came came over to me and got like this far in my grill in my face and he said don't you ever ask me anything like that ever again I came here to get treated not traumatized by somebody like you now are you going to treat me for this stuff or not and he just he just ripped into him and it immediately reminded me when he was telling me that story of the story

between L and G and I was like wow like he wouldn't have reacted acted so strongly if there wasn't something there right right and so did you hear anything around the base or you know anybody talking around okay yeah um but what was somewhat anomalous uhuh is that shortly after I got there I found out that I had been sort of demoted it it was kind of

it was kind of crazy so when I was when I was at DARPA I was a uh Lieutenant Colonel retired as a lieutenant colonel ended up coming back as a gs15 uh to go to Afghanistan to use little robots to go try to find uh Bin Laden in the caves and Tor Bor were you literally doing that yeah that's amazing that's a really interesting story well I I I gotta tell you this is the first time I've ever talked about that in public wow and the

interview I Tim gadet asked asked me if I had had met met Allan if I knew him and I said no and he said and I think I don't know if he sent me the link or just told me that he had just done an interview with Shan and so so I watched the interview with with wrapped attention and it was magnificent I mean the guy I just can't speak well enough for the guy and uh he had he he had um a rough time with with his wife um and his divorce similar

similar to mine he had a tougher than mine but in any case I'm kind of listening I think I went up to to go to kitchen and make a sandwich or something and then I hear him talk about how um right after he had inserted he and his guys had inserted all the the detachments from fifth group that is now a a legendary The Horse Soldiers there's a book written about it movie written about it with with um um what's the name Thor uh

H uh not Liam the the other guy who's Chris Hemsworth Chris Hemsworth yeah and so he was this Oda Commander a special forces a team commander and that they made the movie the movie made it look like it was one Detachment well you got a multiply that by like 36 because there were there were a bunch of Chris Hemsworth all over the torbor region and so Al was in his uh uh several helicopters I don't know how many Commander maybe five six I'm not sure

how many they were the guys that put those guys in and so after they got done with that mission they were told that they were going to rotate back to Fort Campbell Kentucky so they've been in country for several months right and so they're looking forward to going home and then he got this cockamamy mission to lower a robot down into a cave that was one of your robots yeah I was I was the only guy with robots in the country at the time it had to be me they were lowering the robots into a cave and what

were did you have a hand in the mission itself or I was the mission you were the mission I was I had a by name request uhhuh from my former boss uh jumo Brown a magnificent Warrior and Soldier uhuh so that's why DARPA called me back out of retirement to go do this Mission were you in Tabora for the mission or you were remotely controlling it I was in uh Afghanistan we were doing workups we were doing rehearsals for it at balgam

Airfield um with a couple of uh Green Beret from fifth group that will remain unnamed and they it was our little cell and they were going to use the robot there to research re service those tunnels and those caves rather than taking a 12-man Detachment and and land them and have to look in each cas cave and there was significant distances between and you got serious terrain that

you got to go through so rather than doing that the idea was we lower the robot looks in the cave real quick either determines somebody's there somebody's not and here's the problem that a a lot of those tunnels it was just a shallow cave it was like maybe half as deep as this room and so it looked like it was a tunnel you didn't know until you got on the ground and looked in and so Shadows can play tricks on you and everything and then the concern was there bunch of booby traps right and so the value of my

little robots that's what I was brought into DARPA to look at is to use little robots to sneak into places that might have wmd right and so it made all the sense in the world especially in the middle of winter with a bunch of snow right and and that the weight distribution of of a little miniature tank with these fat Treads what year was this this was 2001 well I got the mission in 2001 we didn't actually get over there until very early 2002 January February and did because

for a while we had pretty good confidence that Bin Laden was in torob Bora right and then he sort of got away like what what happened there because he ended up we found him in wiir Pakistan or whatever so we're already in the rabbit hole now we're going into a deeper Rabbit Hole within the rabbit hole s have you ever heard of the the book um kill Ben L by a guy named Dalton Fury I have not yeah so if you if you look at that um we can talk about that afterwards but that

was um written by one of my colleagues uh a fellow true Commander not a squadron commander we were kind of like lower middle management right um and he had that mission and he asked on three separate occasions he went on 60 Minutes in disguise to tell Scott Pell that he had Direct OverWatch on Bin Laden on three separate occasions very close easily within Small

Arms range and he asked for clearance to take out the Target and it was denied three times that's really weird that's crazy that's so [ __ ] that's it's it's like you had you just had an incentive to Nation build in Afghanistan then go into Iraq and waste all this time and money but get Halbert in a contract or something it's so ridiculous that that's the fact I gotta read this book I want

to talk to this guy and and and I'm sure it's on YouTube I mean I've watched on YouTube several times uh he has since passed away uh throat uh cancer um yep and and just a great guy oh man uh very you know again one of these Heroes that that um I had the pleasure of serving in the same unit not at the same time I never met him never shook hands he came in probably couple few years after I left they just let him go three times Bin Laden that's what that's what

um GFF said that's what that's what that that's what crazy well that's what I mean there were rumors that we were closing in on Benin La at Tabora and then all of a sudden he gets away and then you hear stuff like that the isi kind of knew you know the um Pakistani intelligence knew that Bin Laden was in wasan the whole time and I mean you just look at like the way in which Bin Laden was found and you're like how isn't this guy found prior with the amount of resources we $6 trillion do that we spent in Middle East activities post you

know two uh uh uh September 11th 2001 how do we not find this one guy it's just crazy and you have like you know the total information awareness stuff and you have you can Network and you there are ways to find people and you can't can't find this one guy like then then when you do find him he's like watching DVDs in this weird out housee and he's got like it's like give me a break like it's crazy uh but but the impact on me at that time in

um we were we were spinning up we were rehearsing my mission our mission to send these two guys with this robot and ATT Tech another heroic guy I will tell you his name his name is Nathan desm legend in the robotics EOD Community um and he was that guy was amazing he was he was able to splice fiber optic back together on some of these these uh robots and so forth anyway they uh I heard this

rumor that we had we the unit had been lad in their sites three times and it was denied down the Chan very short Chan of command so it's very unique that interesting straight from the president yeah down to yeah this this unit through a two star general what was the rationale do you have any sense they never got it that's that was the problem there was never any reason given there's a lot of hypothesis

later that I've heard from it's not like we wanted him alive we killed him in Pakistan it's like the one 10 years later skiing with a good buddy of mine another Aviator very senior Aviator as a matter of fact he was the senior Aviator in the Army um I tell you his name but I haven't asked him yet so sure um and he said I think that we

wanted to dangle Bin Laden out to get the other fish kind of like you know you have an insort kind of like the Narco world right yeah so you got you got somebody but you want to see how many little fish gather around them so we can get them all up there's there's some logic to that yeah um but in any case the impact on me was near tragic but the way if you're I'm just I just want to play Devil's Advocate there then you take the guy hostage and you get the other fish I mean they're all you have

more leverage if the guy is in your custody than if you he's just out free I mean come on and on a ski lift I think that's exactly how I addressed that yeah so the um at that time during the spinup I was Furious because we didn't have any microphones on any of our robots and I and I had mandated early on in my Dara program we got to have microphones we got to have the same sensing capacity

as a human right because we don't want to do worse than a human right why do you want to put a a robot in if you if there's you know there's there's obviously value that that a robot can fit in a hole but a human can't but we at least got to be able to hear right because I wanted to use them as assets right if if Ben lad's down in that tunnel I want to be able to hear what the heck he's saying right that's part of the that's why you need SF guys Special Forces guys because we're language trained and we can understand what the hell he singing

so we didn't have microphones I was Furious so I catch a a space a a space available flight first to Turkey uh to interi uh and then to Germany and while I'm in Germany with Nate we hear about operation anaconda and how everything has gone to Hell in a hand basket and helicopters are shoted down all this stuff um and it just took all the wind out of my sales cuz then when I came

back and then I that there was all these rumors about well and you know we had been Ling three times and I'm like the hell am I doing here yeah if if we find him yeah with the robot yeah what they're just going to say no right so what is so you can imagine the effect on on the motivation of that yeah it's demoralizing do I was totally demoralized Kabuki theater you're just chasing around a guy just to let him go every time it's weird exactly and so

when I got back I I I out breathed the director uh and and he said okay well we'll we'll get microphones on him and so forth and I said no sir that's not good enough I need to pick handpick my team of the guys that are going to run these robots around and he refused so I resent that's the end of that story crazy story well John you were you were Green Beret am I wrong that's correct okay so recent

the skiff was offworld Technologies and uh he was shown two things an orb levitating above a Podium and a gauntlet like almost like a glove like thing emitting hieroglyphics and I have his DD214 I have a couple of his colleagues dd214s I know for a fact that he still does contract work for Area 51 I think people don't realize how big of a a test

site that is and that they're not going to like fire this guy for he didn't break any ndas as a result of of this he just you know it was uh it was just the NDA you know uh the the naval surfice Warfare crane NDA nothing to do with Area 51 they wouldn't retaliate if they did retaliate it would it would be self-identification for Area 51 so you have all these people kind of coming at the story saying it's [ __ ] I I L Blended a lot of credence given what I've gotten to know about him over the last you know couple of months i' I've

known him for maybe four or five months now but I've done you know extra research on it what what do you think about his story uh so before he came on your show yeah long before he came on your show yeah I I had quite a bit of interaction with him Dave grush uh through maybe one other person maybe it was Michael put me in touch with him and again with the same notion that Ross and Dave wanted me to do with

Jake just just no just uh be a compassionate open and um and yeah you know again tell them my story and and part of the value of this is when these guys come out that at least they're not crazy as the colonel who thinks he was freaking abducted by a a praying mantis sure right and so it kind of It kind of encourages them but

what was your assessment of the core Story I mean do you think that uh I I I believe every aspect of his story uh I don't have the same level of confidence because I didn't meet him with four other guys that I could see and watch the watch the behavior sure but I find zero in consistency with what he said now there's a couple of details very important details that you left out in your summary yeah and uh one was the

long elevator ride yep right and the notion that topside the facility he didn't he didn't really describe it as being decrepit but it wasn't that I think the way he described it is it wasn't really state-of-the-art right but when he when he got to the bottom of that long ride it was very sophisticated right and so that is entirely

consistent with an advanced weapons development structure right first of all underground is absolutely the most secure facility you can imagine right and and why worry about fence lines and and canines and security forces folks if you're what 100t below below grade so and there are rumors of deep underground military bases from Edwards to Nellis to Peterson and Colorado and and Cheyenne

Mountain Complex norat like this stuff is there's enough smoke there where I you know you don't have to say anything without me saying I think there's some fire but I've been in several of them yeah I've never never been rid on any read in on anything in my entire career uh but the smoke is very very prominent and hot yeah never saw any Flames yeah but the other the the ga the gauntlet the Space Ghost glove yes that he described in the sphere totally

consistent with Bob lazar's story from 1988 um why is the glove I didn't know is the glove part of Bob lazar's story or no the the um the sphere was uhhuh but but I thought Bob Lazar worked on like a sports model like alien reproduction vehicle sort of UFO thing I didn't know that he saw like a spere orb or something oh yeah he describes a basketball siiz maybe a smaller maybe soccer ball sized is um item and as he

approached it and tried to it was it was it was sort of like he had magnetic gloves on of all opposite polarity and so he couldn't get there he couldn't that story's come up a ton seeing a sphere being tested for your psionic abilities your your your your mind matter capabilities or something via this sphere thing well I I don't want to I just interviewed a psionic asset yeah who has that story uh and so just that

just keeps coming up this sort of sphere thing that often I guess in ry's case he says it came off the craft it wasn't the craft itself it came off the craft and then I just had Michael shrad on who's just deep uh UFO researcher who goes through all of Leonard stringfield's stuff oh yeah and he's he's describes this egg um and the egg is cracked and it's it's taken to the to Berkeley labs to be studied and they're on the inside is a sphere inside of the egg so I have

no idea we're getting in super speculative territory but okay so lazara who what else would corroborate because Lazar I think reasonably to somebody in the audience is like you know who knows so is there anybody else that yeah go for well uh other elements of smoke this is more wispy than the thick carcinogenic heavy black smoke but um Crane's not far from R Patterson no it's a few hour drive three hours and

it's a Navy facility that's right um now what what I could tell you about um Randy's specialty as an 18 Bravo a Sergeant uh these guys really are are quite special one of the final exams during the Special Forces Q course is called the pile test did did Randy tell you about any of that I don't think he mentioned that I I saw your interview with him yeah so um talked about stress fractures everywhere just how int but now what's

the pile test the pile test is so a weapon sergeant in in their six months of training they're trained on all sorts of foreign weapons and uh you you have to learn how to assemble them disassemble them repair them because you're Behind Enemy Lines You' got a we call Battlefield recovery you use whatever you pull off the battlefield and you repair them and give them back to the the the gorillas that survived or the in a foreign internal defense you you you're kind of trying to

do counter gorill but one way or another these weapons you need to be an expert like almost an armor level a lot of lot of these guys end up after they retire they go run gun shs and they they become rers so the pile test is out of all the weapons and I don't know how many they learn over the course of their training it's probably double digits like 11 12 15 different weapons and so these weapons are randomly selected and they come in and

there's a table and all the weapons are there and then the instructor clicks the stop watch and they got to disassemble all their weapons and then okay everybody's timed and everybody that doesn't make in a certain amount of time you're a nogo and then you got to do a retest so you're out then you got to come back and do it again and then uh same thing okay now disassemble it put it all together all right anybody that doesn't disassemble it it's a lot easier than assembling usually um and every now and

then there'll be as because there's little Springs tiny little springs and and you'll hear like a bing and the spring goes flat across the room and the guy's like oh [ __ ] go and so you got to go scramble get the string so lots of hilarious stories about that but the pile test is after those two pre-tests then uh they got to stand up and come away from the table and then the after the disassembly the instructor comes over

and mixes all the parts so now you you have a pile of random parts and then you sit back down at your chair in front of this table with all these parts and then the instructor clicks the watch and you have to reassemble all these these weapons and then they turn the lights on and there's a timed test that's how good these guys got to be that in total darkness they reassemble all these

weapons so with that level of perspective on ballistics and and armor sort of skills it would make sense that you would want somebody like that to go examine these potential weapons instead of a nuclear physicist right if you're trying to figure out what possible way we might reverse engineer this sort of thing so that's why I say there's no there's no inconsistency with Randy stew it's it's

totally consistent and commensurate with his skill set and his his skill level also about half of the crashed UFO craft stories involve hieroglyphics so like it that actually that isn't super random either but yeah it's just it's so interesting and I think the thing in his case is he he will admit he's like I don't know why I was shown this stuff but like you know and I don't know if this was some bizarre scop or whatever but I I think the core experience is real no reason I mean the other thing

you can probably speak to is you know and I've spoken to a couple of his Green Beret colleagues now um I've seen the their dd214s I know there one of them was actually does still does work with him at Area 51 and was like yeah I saw that green orb that Randy talked about so you know and the other I think has a you know successful company and the and a lot of Green Berets sort of follow this person so uh yeah I I believe him I believe his core story he doesn't really get anything out of this you know we plugged his like self-defense Local

Company in Las Vegas at the end of the thing but it's like there's he's not doing this for you know fame or you know any any he doesn't have ulterior motives so it was really painful to see certain people online go after his uh credentials and background like I know where he was deployed I know a lot more actually about some War Feats that like I I wanted to say but he didn't because of the you know the Green Beret way and uh to see people kind of question his service and record when you know 20

people in his graduating class of Green Berets aren't alive it's like it's just shameful it's like it's so ridiculous well that's another consistency right because we keep our mouth shut right that that our motto is quiet professionals yeah and so he wanted to do it anonymously he wanted his face blurred out until a day before we shot he was like and I was like dude I don't think that's going to help and but we and I talked about that a little bit and and discussed it by text back and forth

um and I and I think that you know he like like Danny shien's interpretation of the law of an NDA an NDA does not apply to them it it unless we have declared war on them this non-disclosure agreement that you discussed that you're not going to talk about you know anything that

that will betray our ability to fight our adversaries of course well and we still haven't declared war on China yet either right and so yeah but it's also the clearly the the underlying principle behind India it's like yet don't let a blueprint as to how to build some you know crazy weapon don't tip your hat to the adversary but if it's ontological truth if it's just a core thing that like Humanity should know you can't NDA

that I'm sorry that's ridiculous that's just dumb like some if it's if it's a principle you know in uh you know uh tricks of the trade that could cause harm if in the wrong hands of of course yeah that da the [ __ ] out of that but I mean this this stuff is it's for Humanity it's ridiculous it's crazy yeah I I mentioned this in my first interview when I finally graduated with um Marie mcney and I'm indebted to her and Josh Elder for for setting that up for me um

and at one point she was asking me a question I said you know I I kind of want to stay away from that and she said oh I I totally understand uh I wouldn't want you to get in trouble for divulging any secrets and I and I gently explained to her it's not about getting in trouble I've been in trouble all my life right it's about protecting sources and methods and your brothers and sisters in arms you don't want to put them at risk right kind of like you know the mission

impossible thing the knock list gets out right so um so there's there's this ethical morality balance there but but you know speculatively let's let's take a step back from into Leo to Leo to to low earth orbit all right let's look at this planet do you see any boundaries between cities or between countries do we see any boundaries between the United States of

America so we're so divided right now look at look at what would have happened if we did have a civil war right and you've got nuclear weapons in Wyoming and South Dakota Montana and one of one of those two states are on opposite sides of the Civil War are we going to Nuke our own

country' be disastrous right and so let's let's take a step back and extend beyond the the boundaries of the The Divided States of America right and let's look at the divided nations of Earth M right same thing are we humans really going to freaking nuke each other over silly spats about economics when there's a potential for

way bigger problems right out there so Reagan's famous speech right with gorbachov Mr gorbachov teared down this wall what what if we were how ridiculous all our petty little disagreements it's funny Reagan apparently I've heard rumors that Star Wars initiatives actually dealt with you know the UFO questions some of these you know weapons ramp UPS in the early 80s a lot of

Reagan speeches dealt with non-human intelligence and stuff you know in the in the mid 80s this that's not speculation that is fact you can go you can go look at those speeches the facts that I know I know of one speech where he said it's like you know it's like if there was an alien invasion you know it would it would totally unite us as a human race and then there's a second story uh Gorbachev told um Charlie Rose and he says you know I don't remember was some un event or something and he's

sitting next to uh Reagan and Reagan Whispers over before the event starts and he says you know in the event of an alien invasion would you help us president rean subtly said to me well what would you do if the United States were attacked by someone from space would you help us I said no doubt about

it he said we too and so um well this is one of the most powerful aspects of Robert Hastings book UFO and nukes yeah um great book that that you know he and Bob Jacobs and Terry and Mario woods and Jeff Goodrich who still hasn't had his story told uh and that deserves so we could talk about that later try to put you guys in touch awes phenomenal but but the the part of the most compelling aspect of that is

the collective perspective that most of us share I don't want to speak for all of them but but I took away from it was the notion and Robert has said this on in his doent and many interviews that the collective feeling from it is that we are playing with fire we I call I have a chapter called nuclear matchsticks that we are essentially kids playing with matches in

backyard I believe that and I believe if you this gets into weird kind of ontological Truth in metaphysics but maybe we're poking holes in reality with certain high energy physics experiments and with you know some of the nuclear stuff and it's almost opening portals to another world and that I think that the really interesting phenomena that happens after that is you have all these really tough guys who get spooked by really crazy you know entities that they

encounter and after those encounters they kind of turn on the system and they're like we have to we need to we need peace you know we need to we need to lay our arms down great example all members of that club yeah and it's it's fascinating to see it's you know Randy Anderson's great example where he's that guy's a tough dude you just you just see like you know that guy could beat the [ __ ] out of me and but he's going through this like really interesting Journey where he's I think waking up becoming more conscious and that's what

prompted him to come out to me with this story and uh and we had really deep conversations before putting the story out that I I wish people could see around his you know uh reforming as a person almost Spiritual Awakening and that's happening to a lot of military guys so it's almost like you're you're poking The Beehive the bees come out and then you're like actually you know you kind of Reform you realize that there's you know to quote Jake Barber it's not ontological Shock it's ontological relief yeah we we we

understand now and we and so yeah so and that's why do this right one other detail I want to talk to you about specifically with the Randy Anderson story is he was introduced to me by an amazing UFO researcher named UAP gerb recommend everybody check out his channel it's really deep incredible stuff and uh his name is Sammy UAP G he's done a deep dive on basically he thinks that saic which is located right next to Naval service Warfare crane was

the contractor doing the psionic testing they're on record doing psychotronic testing and other cases you know getting into that area I think they wrote a paper on or they commissioned a paper on electr gravitics James Woodward and I think 88 or something you know they they're they're very deep on uh alternative science that is UFO adjacent let's just say so you were a VP of saic for six months do you think that saic was the contractor for Randy uh I I have read a lot of smoke no

flames um I I was brought aboard saic to take over a troubled robotics division out in Littleton Colorado um and I I didn't get very far because I was almost immediately pulled back to DARPA uh I was I was really excited about uh taking over that Division I had some some um very some I had a lot of optimism that

we could uh make some big impact but that I mean was like three days after I'm I'm at Ground Zero and DARPA was calling me art Morris great friend of mine brilliant scientist and he's like hey we want to get you back we're we're getting ready to go to um overseas he just left it at that right because it was still early on but we all knew it was Afghanistan right uh and I was like dude I'm I got my hands full here let me I'm trying to rescue people

for crying out loud killing people and going after bin ladden that's secondary let's let me take care of this stuff first and then it stayed back burner uh until I ended up uh turning over robots to another great hero Ser first class Dave Platt and ended up finally getting back to my house that I had just bought in in Colorado and and then got redeployed

there so I only had maybe 30 days total time at seic before I had to take a leave of absence from there to go become a gs15 the to so not really a lot of opportunity to peek under the skirt and look around for any you know interesting stuff so um so yeah uh I was never R into anything at SS um I gave one briefing on the potential of small robots to sneak into little

nooks and crannies um kind of a ther you know uh that's got value for looking in rubble right because if you're 250lb firefighter with a SCUBA tank you ain't fitting up underneath that yeah that couch right uh and a security system that's designed to detect a 2 meter bag of water uhuh probably not going to detect something the size of my fist yeah right sneaking through the the barbed wire and if we're going to be looking for microbial Life on

Mars it makes no sense to be wandering around the surface of a planet that is literally bathed in radiation Chris McKay I'll never forget it he he gave a phenomenal lecture um but in in the summer of 2001 uh it was a it was a um fundraiser to kind of motivate all of us that we're

going to go up to to the hton crater as part of the NASA's hmp hton hton Mars project and there was the Mars underground so forth so there's some video of me on on a website this on my LinkedIn page it's day 17 in the Mars simulation and a new crew member arrives with some unusual American Military technology my name is Lieutenant Colonel John blitch treated like a American football and you're running for the end zone I'm a program manager for the

crannies the Shadows that's where you're going to find microbes and Chris mccave shared with us he he he held Us in wrapped attention for like two and a half hours with two slots one was like uh red Mars and then maybe blue Mars or green Mars I and and uh James Ken was here I met him and he was taking a lot of heat because of I forget the name of the movie I think it was red Mars or something Mars and and he took a lot of eat and finally he said okay it's just a

movie for crying out loud right you know let let let me off the hook but um Chris was always a a big opponent of man missions because he felt that we were going to contaminate the surface so how do you know if a hitchhiker uh microbe doesn't fall off your skin end up on your boot and then suddenly blooms and flourishes in the soil on mars or whatever so he was he

was at I think he was at Ames I say Ames and and there was friction between the astronaut Folks at Johnson Space Center and the scientists there the pro robot guys MH we can only afford to send robots and we got to of course you're going to you know do them in a clean room and make sure there's no dust on them or whatever and then he suddenly realized I don't know when his Epiphany was but it was before he gave this lecture that you know what there is no chance of anything surviving on the

surface of Mars because all of the radiation so now he's like we should send astronauts do it now and that was 2001 and before we launched up there in July of 2001 what do you think of these structures that we're now finding on Mars like these sort of anomalous artificial looking structures do you think that Mars at one point had life you know even the conventional sort of astronomical understanding of Mars is that maybe at some point it did have life and that its magnetosphere was

book and like he's talking about the you know uh querian you know like uh Maxwell's equations the the you know expanded version of Maxwell's equations being more faithful than the heavy side simplification and two years ago you could have said that's quacky and ridiculous or whatever now you have the National Science Foundation NASA doing podcasts talking about this stuff and I've spoken to enough serious Aerospace people where I'm like I think that's real and then if that's real then like I don't know is our whole rocket program

just a weird you know Pagan ritual cult like I'm not sure I don't know well you know since we're down that rabbit hole uh uh John brandenburg's Series yeah books about the the isotopic ratio that is exclusive as far as we know to a nuclear detonation and that huge B

Marys and and so he speculates that whatever civilization was there was eradicated nuclear war and he has the the the chemical photonic evidence that he presents very compellingly in my opinion that you know there there's correlations and there's causation right and so if you have correlation how does

correlation becomes what's it's an isotope that's only a new could create yes what is the isotope do we know so um so you have this correlation between um these factors and this result and then correlation becomes causation when um aam's razor slices through all of the other Alternatives and that's all if you can account for all the other variables then you're left with by the

laot parsimony that's that's the only thing we got and so that's how it becomes causation so he could find no uh no other reasonable mechanism for that isotopic ratio to be there I want to talk other than a nuclear donation I'll send you the links to a bunch of his books yeah

he's he's got three that I know he gravity experiments as well is that the same John Brandenburg or is that different um I don't recall any gravity experiments but it might be interesting it could be wow yeah I also I just spoke to Joseph mcmonagle who was part of yeah yeah the you know remote viewing program and he he remote viewed Mars a million years ago claimed to see all these pyramids and then he says he's now in touch with all these guys at JPL who were sending him all these artificial structures on on Mars and I saw the photos at his place and

you know he's not super deep on the provenance of you know and like exactly what the credentials are of the people he's in touch with but I'm super curious because have have you are you familiar with uh Carl wolf and his test yeah yeah yeah Lieutenant Carl wolf yeah with uh this was uh he was in a dark room and he saw this photo of a a structure on but that that was on the moon he was he was not a lieutenant he was a senior Airman uhhuh uh and he was at um he was he was

a a photo repair uh technician that's right and and this was he he claimed to be in some like in a like a a special compartment of NASA or something it was like in a mountain right no it was at Langley it was Langley and he went into room and um he was surprised because there was a lot of foreign language spoken M and he came to realize that

were um apparently you know just based on he said it was an international space program that there were a bunch of scientists from all over the world there at this meeting and he was brought in to repair a um device for photo processing that was broken and the other person in the room I think was also an Air Force Airman started whispering to him that

that they had discovered huge structures on the dark side of the moon and so he became uncomfortable because he knew that this guy was telling him something that he wasn't supposed to know so this is part of this but he saw a photo oh yeah yeah the guy showed him the guy showed him a photo and then he made a about and then he died he got hit by a car on his bike or something it was a weird yeah he he was riding his bike and he was hit by a semi trctor trailer and so this this comes into some of this you

know uh rumor some hot smoke on some of this of people being eliminated with the use of deadly force that is rationalized by the notion that we really have to keep this secret because it's too scary for well you know uh do you think there are structures on the Dark Side of the Moon China is now going to the dark side of the moon I have no red flags of

inconsistency of inconsistency to say otherwise yeah but I feel like the the burden of proof should beond the person saying that there are possibly structures on the Dark Side of the Moon absolutely well yeah the burden of proof is really interesting right like would you would you say your base case is that there are structures on the Dark Side of Moon um no I I all I'm saying is I have no reason to disbelieve Carl wol he didn't he didn't

write a book and get rich and famous sure that I know of um and the fact of the matter is you f books don't sell MH the vast majority of them especially abduction books that's way too crazy uh so um so I don't have any reason to disbelieve Carl wolf and the logic of what he described uh tracks it's it's consistent in in in my personal opinion the moon itself is a very weird structure you

know you have uh Apollo 10 I believe took off and then it sort of rang like a bell 12 Apollo 12 no was it 12 I thought it was it was 12 because 10 didn't land 11 landed 11 landed rang like a belt 12 12 they put seismometers in the earth and then they crashed the booster intentionally and then it rang like a bell for three hours I think it was 12 and 15 oh 12 when they took off they

um they they deorbited um the I think it was the command mod no it wasn't a Command Module Command Module booster yeah it was the booster yeah it and it rang yeah and then they replicated it three missions later as I understand it Oh I thought any but either way you had a yes effect and you had Gordon McDonald you know space admin under Eisenhower saying the only thing I he at Columbia

he said the only the only explanation for the Moon is that it's a hollow structure and and you had remote viewers at the time like gingo Swan saying that you know fell H and this is actually a fact uh the soil you know at the top of the Moon uh is uh uh uh older than uh uh sediment layers below it which only pattern matches to excavation sites or structures well okay to play drill and then get newer stuff to play Devil's

Advocate if you have a a meteorite um strike uh and it explodes then you could have lower lower layers that end up on top that's possible it's possible okay well that but that would just be in one region that wouldn't be ubiquitous across the moon also the Moon is usually is way too big for a normal Moon and it is uh I mean I don't know if this matters but it is it's like 1/400 the size of the Earth and then it's 400

times closer to the Earth than the Sun and it orbits in this perfect way where you never see the dark side which is also very irregular that's not something that you would normally encounter when we compare our moon around this planet to other moons in our own solar system we which we know a lot about it is highly irregular yeah it's highly irregular so it's been speculated that maybe it's sort of an artificial structure like an alien satellite or something like that spaceship or I'm I'm

well aware of a lot of that speculation okay what's the weirdest thing that you can talk about that you worked on at DARPA weirdest most interesting most mind most mindblowing oh well my my special Access program um was trying to reverse engineer uh camouflage from spilop pods

that's so cool can you and what what what Shook Me Up um sudden awareness that um a possibly in excess of 70% of neural processing in seop pods is independent

from their central nervous system and the way it the the way I became aare aware of it is uh with a couple of brilliant scientists from I uh Israel I think it was University of hia maybe um Benny hawner and and tomarrow Flash and they came to this this um fabulous Workshop that uh Roger handland from Marine biological uh laboratory at Woods Hole um and he's kind of the the god of seapods and

crypsis behavior brilliant guy you could see his Ted Talk um and that's back dated back in 2012 but gez 20 years or 15 years before that um I saw that same video and I sold a $70 million program based on that one video wow it shows him swimming along and he's coming across this Coral Le uh coral reef and there's seaweed swaying

back and forth and as he approaches what looks like a rigid hunk of coral uh all of a sudden blanches white and it's and you see this big eye in the middle of it and it shoots off after squirting ink behind it wow and that's an octopus were you successful uh yes and then a month later uhhuh it was cancelled crazy with no explanation very weird no I thought at the time so this

happened in Fall of 20 2000 yeah and I got word right after the election so the the election of 2012 or 201 the turn of the century of the Y 2K election was between um Al Gore and George W bush and it was a very tight election and it it it got down to the the legendary hanging Chads they were counting back in Florida

where they were worried about just this little tab not being fully open whatever and it got it it made you know 2020 look like a regular election almost right it was wild and so um there was a lot of rumors about when the when the Clinton Administration left the White House they had trashed it and all this stuff and I was caught up in that and and I uh erroneously attributed it to a

political stunt that the incoming Administration was going to stick it to the outgoing Administration by picking a couple of pet projects and and just cancel them because that that was that was the best that I could do to make sense of the data to connect all the dots uh and I was Furious about it and it and it it played no small role in me leaving even Dara and deciding to retire from the military uh CU I I suddenly

started thinking you know I need to get my butt and and so saic came to me and offered me this job making way more money than I ever imagined I could even as a retired Colonel right and so um that that combination of factors made me take that job and retire even though I I I felt like I I still had you know I had hopes of making General officer matter of fact I've had been told on several occasions that I that I was going to

that I I was good for at least two stars that's what quote was told to me it's funny speaking to you it just it always makes me wonder how this UFO program operates or works because like I think you'd be like the best recruit for like something like that no I am a screw up man no you you I mean you're into the topic you have this interdisciplinary knowledge and then yeah it's just so weird like I I do think saic had something to do with this you know Bobby Ray Inman who director of the CIA and I

think like number two at NSA like you know a rare person to be at the top of organizations and you know he has this call with Bob oxler this uh you know UFO researcher and he's basically admitting that you know we have we have UFOs in our possessions do do you uh anticipate that any of the recovered vehic Les would never be uh become available for uh technological research outside of the uh military circles again I honestly

don't know uh 10 years ago the answer would have been no yeah whether his time has evolved they're beginning to become more open on it there a possibility a short time later Bob exler received this call Mr exler this is Tom King an admiral inman's office yes you would be breaching confidence and or viol of the laws and discussing his involvement in any matter Ben rich said same same thing Ben

Rich did say the same thing we have the technology quote we have the technology to take ET home do you think that was Bluster or propaganda or do you think he really so so again putting my behavioral scientist cap on ego is a powerful Factor right in all us and and I have to deal with that myself right all the time so uh we you know Secrets bolster your ego if if I am

told I'm gonna tell you something but you can't tell Jesse makes me feel important all right so imagine a a 30-year career as a senior intelligence officer you rise up through the ranks right and you get to be a gs-15 and you you you feel super special like I'm the only guy on the planet that knows all this stuff and your ego is just ballooned

you got to pop the balloon every now and then and if if you're surrounded by the right people that will pop that for you not burst it just puncture it and let a little air out sometime and then maybe reinflated it back and forth but without that counterbalance it can really lead you into um some inaccurate assumptions and that that has certainly happened to me on more than one occasion so I bring this into the conversation in the

context of this threat narrative yeah and I I really want to push back against the threat narrative and the fear that it that it generates yeah this stuff's it's not a threat I mean unless there's some specific thing that we're doing now that threatens them that is wholesale you know orders of magnitude worse than like the creation of nukes I I don't I don't see how it is a threat well so so you know my

um thesis for what I present in the alien abduction uh amnesty not is that the abduction phenomenon is at the center of all of this and so I want to I want to bow down again uh for to all of my heroic brothers and sisters in the intelligence intelligence community and thank them for their pessimistic point of view they are inherently pessimistic and they have

to be their whole career is based on briefing a commander with the worst possible case so I want to counterbalance that and present a statistically based argument 99% of the violent crime that is committed on this planet not just the United States globally is committed by 1% of the population so if you

extrapolate from there which is the only thing we can do unless somebody starts divulging secrets and telling us otherwise 99% of them are friendly and there's only 1% that might be doing bad stuff to us now the middle ground is the scientists right the veterinarians who come in and pluck us out of our bed play with us take me off my mountain bike take me out of my bed after the using the the the

hurricane over my house and the cover to land whatever they do yeah but that there's compassion there because they remove our memories so that we can get on with our lives if I could remove my Labrador retriever's memory yeah of every time I brought him to the vet I would do it on heartbeat have you ever seen the movie the shape of water oh yeah so that's a great movie guo Del Toro talks about sort of mid-century experiments of uh human animal hybridization and I have met uh somebody

who's former DARPA he said he could tell me this because it didn't then this project that he was working on never got approved never got went through but it was a submission that he made and it was um based on the work of this guy Richard goldshmid who is an Al alternative to Darwin um you know in the early 20th centuries this German guy and it was uh uh hopeful monsters so it was like you had like a you know like a tiger and a lion mate or something then you get a liger and in the liger case it dies off

or whatever but like every once in a while you get these sort of hybrids that fulfill this specific ecological niche that lives on and that's how you get these sort of punctuated equilibria rapid speciation you know in the phenetic tree that's how you get these jumps and evolution which aren't really well explained in the pure darwinian Theory and I found that fascinating and I guess that never you know made it across the line do you think DARPA has ever experimented with human animal

hybrids or human alien hybrids uh I again I have never been read in on anything even a whisper of any of that uh but that is consistent with darpa's mission to do that type of research to ensure technolog iCal surprise for our country over our adversar do you know who so I don't know what I don't know have you ever heard the name de L Bron

by any so this guy was in charge of quote unquote alien autopsies back in the day but then he went on to run the Rockefeller foundation and he was president of Johns Hopkins as well he's doing all sorts of medical stuff and so do you ever wonder if some of our you know things implemented in our kind of medical industry or food industry are actually derived from sort of you know alien stuff two- word answer yeah relief do you think that Philip Corso's

narrative is correct where like you have these meta materials basically his you know the the sort of golden age of material science of you know the late 50s was a result of the Roswell materials uh being transferred to you know right pad and then he was actually in charge of doing it out to kind of civil side commercial use cases so so that book was fascinating and I think I it either I don't know if it was at the

time no I think it was after I think it I think I I think I bought it when I was at Socom so um another So speaking of books before I bought Corso's book I bought lley streber book communion which is another anomalous Behavior factor it's not as strong as the mountain bike or the or the bruises on the arm but it is an anomalous one independently corroborated because my my daughter and I were meeting my my wife

and my older daughter this is right around the same time as the mountain bike then we're cutting through the mall and we go through a Barnes & Noble and we're late um and so we're hustling along and I happen to glance as we're through and I Freez in my tracks like like solid frozen and it's and the the hairs here it goes again the hair is standing up on my

arms and um I'm I'm staring over at the wall to my right and it's it's with Le streber book it's the face the communion face and I I froz my tracks and the next thing I know my my daughter is tugging on my hand and I'm know to me she had continued walking through through the bookstore got out to the mall wondered where the hell I was and came back and grabbed me she's like Dad come on we're going to be late and so I let her drag

me out of the store essentially and we go back and so I make some excuse to my wife they're they're I think they were buying school stuff school clothes or whatever so I came straight back to that bookstore and I bought the book and I immediately ripped the cover off and threw it in the trash before I walked out of the door and it was it again that weird anomalous behavior and so I think it was a couple a few years after that it triggered you in some way that I bought Corso's book right and so and

then at at one point um we had a uh we had a St Patrick's Day party at um at DARPA at at our office it was the obviously 17 March I think it was 17 2001 uh my wife and I had just separated uh preparing for a divorce that she had asked for uh and it was that the we had been on the rocks for a while I had cheat on her earlier in my uh relationship I just you know I was

wasn't a good husband was a good dad I was just testosterone filled Warrior you know mentality blah blah blah I've I've come around to sort of try to forgive myself for that uh but in any case uh we were separated and so I ended up staying the night instead of going home she had moved in a basement I ended up getting hammered at this at this uh St Patrick's Day party I had I had uh put on my man makeup my camouflage

green paint right and put on my uh fatigues my my jungle uniform to play around and some people thought it was funny some people thought whatever dude uh and so I ended up in this conference room with with uh a couple other uh who weren't program managers they were on the support staff uh way smarter than me by any stress of imagination and they started I had this book in this conference room and it was corel's book

they're like you don't believe that do you and I was like well wait a minute so now I'm now I'm kind of attack so now I'm gonna we're going to have a little here and I built up the case that DARPA was what original um section under General Trudeau became that that DARPA ended up as the conduit to break up all the component

Technologies and distribute them throughout the wonderful free enterprise free market uh economy of the democratic United States of that's fascinating because DARPA was founded around what 57 58 or something 1958 it was right after it was allegedly the response to sput oh but you're saying maybe it was also a response to this uh army guy uh Corso say being given some anomalous material to Dole out if you

read Corso's book and you read the history of DARPA there are some really interesting any other any other reasons to believe that any other correlations you can talk about not the dark black there's flame is going to ignite any minute but but something that struck me when I first reported in was [ __ ] I'm a I'm a nug yeah I got a

master's degree in math and computer science from you know it it wasn't uh probably upper tier in Academia the col School of Minds wasn't super well known but in certain circles it's very highly regarded so okay but I don't have a PhD and I certainly don't know anything about the acquisition world you know how to contracts are let and and all the rest of this so as soon as I showed up I

asked my boss uh to to go to this six-month long program manager course to learn how to manage a program before I start doing it and he dismissed me out of hand right off the bat um and he said you don't need that you you this is just going to be OJT it's on the job training and I'm thinking to myself wait a minute I that doesn't make sense to me because I know everybody in all the regular National Labs Air Force research lab Army

research lab Navy research lab if you're uniformed um scientist you have to go through this certification process process just so you don't mismanage the taxpayers money you got to figure out how to go through contract evaluation and what's the source selection board comprised of and and you got to learn what you can commit to and what you can't commit to and and he's just going to blow that off and then it come to

find out that DARPA has a an exception to the federal acquisition far and that is why the other all the other National Labs despised derper because they had to go through this you know honorous um bureaucratic process to get a contract out the door that would take as much as 6 to 12 months right and so

was Nightmare so it was almost like the concept that you were trying to bring to Market was obsolete before it even arrived but DARPA didn't have to go through all that we had a shortcut and we could we we did use do Source selections but our stuff was out the door me that's why everybody loved it and the magnitude of those contracts was was huge right so at that time the late 990s a portfolio of of about $100

million that in the regular National laborat iies that was a brigadier generals level that was like a peo level of management I had 130 million dollar in my portfolio half was robots half was was was this stealth program that was canceled at uh a month after it it became again for no reason so that was that is consistent with what Trudeau told Corso to do well do you

think just get the money out do you think cancellation for no reason points to uh some sort of back door to some of these Legacy UFO programs where you figure a certain thing out you start working on it and then all of a sudden again no flame yeah but this is super heavy Thick Smoke 2004 M I'm I'm uh I'm a consultant uh working back for DARPA getting paid way too much money again and

I turn on the the evening news and there's Katie Cork and she shows this video clip that she claimed to have received from Al jazer and it shows a com a convoy of Tanks somewhere in Iraq I think maybe up near T cre um and there's a there's a Humvee no the the lead element in this Convoy

was an Abrams M1 tank with like a like a plow on the front that was supposed to be able to deflect IED so IEDs were just really becoming a big threat and so a tank could run over an IED and nobody would die right so tank's in the front and they're coming they they come around this this uh kind of a serpentine route through this Village it's a compound a lot of a lot of the Middle East has small walled

compounds and there was no gate it was just open and this tank comes comes screaming through and then I think it's followed by either another tank but behind I I don't know if there's another tank maybe it a maybe it a Bradley Fighting Vehicle a a armored personnel carrier then behind that is two Humes I just remember thean back so then it that it sort of screeches to a halt there was no acoustics but I could you know from my own time playing with tanks myself I I could almost hear the tracks grinding

Screech to a Hal and it rocks a little bit and then she is narrating the video and she says now watch the right side of your screen and the right side of the screen is this pixelated image that kind of the only reason you get your attention she cued you to look over there and it's fuzzy it's like pixelated it's fuzzy and it comes moving along along this W this this ditch just outside the compound wall and then it it

gets close to the tank and then it's just a blob and then as it Maneuvers up onto the to the front of tank it's clear that it's two and uh then then two other limbs show and this blob climbs up onto the tank and down into the Gunner's patch into the C and she plays it like three times

slow motion seop pod invisibility I I I I'm like holy crap it's like that's why my program was canceled somebody was already doing this yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that's what I thought well sometimes I think DARPA like rfps are like we would love this to theoretically happen but it's like we're already work we already know a lot about this and we're just going to give you a little limited information set and you can you know we'll see what you can do with it or whatever so there's some sort of and then I think it's original maybe

adding to the point that it does have to do with the UFO stuff uh one of the original projects was the defender project which was uh you know I'm not familiar with that I believe it was like the beginning of drones back in the day and you even have this story uh this guy uh who was a lieutenant commander in the Navy we spoke about him last night Robert luer and towns and brown finding this green Fireball material in Connecticut and it seems to be decaying

rapidly and it um he thinks that maybe it's barium titanate and uh project moonwatch and uh Blue Book both want custody of it but Brown just flashes his credentials says no it's mine and then he seems to coordinate with Robert lucer on this and this is again 58 so it was right when DARPA had gotten started and I think lucer was a part of DARPA back in the day and it was maybe even called arpa then or yeah for for a Time DARPA was called arpa the idea was let's get

the D out of it and let's you know um pieces broken out all over let's you know um swords into plow shares this for a little bit and then somebody decided oh we better put that Genie back in the bottle and make it defense again so you know that's that's the yin-yang you know the the sine wave of of politics and so forth but you know I don't the reason I'm bringing this up is I certainly don't want to divulge anything that is going to put us at risk of course but um

what what's interesting about that is is that the claim was that it was Al jazer that that had sent this in right oh so they were trying to out it makes me wonder right it just you just don't know I mean is this part but here's the thing you know science says we know it yeah uh saying we have the capability is not you know that's not well I mean here's the thing is if you if you can bend SpaceTime you can bend photons to to

come around the object and exit the same exact way and that's your invisibility clip so if you can bend space time to the point that you can develop a warp drive you can make yourself in it's in curent in that capacity that technology and all you need is enough power to do it so so what takes it off of everybody's you know books off of everybody's Blackboard ENT power limitation is the limitation of the

power but if you have enough power and in L's book y he shows the warp bubble that he and how pudol discussed Y and so and even talk about and so it's a little bit of a it's a little bit of conflict within the same pages right because at the one one point he's saying look this is a threat because these things are splitting two f18s yeah and you know that is a threat to National airspace we can't have these things moving around blah blah blah and colliding with our our vehicles and I'm like wait a minute

wait a minute wait a minute let's let's back up or or move forward depending on where you are in the book and let's look at this warp bubble yeah you specifically make a case uhuh that who's ever in this vehicle can slow time down MH right it's just like it's it's relativity Edgar Mitchell measured it on his watch right and so for them it's Child's Play right it's like everybody else is is covered in molasses and we walk right around them

so there is no possibility of a collision do you think that Edgar Mitchell had anything to do with Legacy UFO efforts you know he's poo 14 astronaut who came back from the on his way back from the Moon had almost like a conversion experience and then delve deep into Consciousness and it was very high conviction in Aliens and yeah well I've anecdotal smoke here what's that I have anecdotal smoke I was

and some I think he suggested that nobody wanted to have anything to do with Edgar Mitchell and it was like he was ostracized and he but the flight surgeon was was all about it he was he was taking their side against Edgar Mitchell and I'm like what the what what is all this from Kelly's Heroes Mor arti what's with all the negative waves right I

don't understand why why that but I got the impression that inside the astronaut Corp there was this agreement that you don't talk about Fight Club right you don't talk about the ETS that we have all seen right again speculation but that's what I took away from that story that he told it was either in the base or while we were riding back to kargo on the way back

that he told that story and that is always stuck in my head yeah that was cir uh 200000 I think it was the summer of 2008 well yeah James Fox great you know UFO documentarian almost had well his buzz aldrin's sister Buzz Aldren obviously second person to walk on the moon along with Neil Armstrong and he apparently would tell his sister that not only did he see a foo fighter in Japan as a fighter pilot but that he saw UFOs you know on the way to the moon and uh James Fox followed the guy guy all

around the world eventually like you know they were in Monaco together and he was about to interview him and Buzz Aldren said you know what would my testimony ever do not denying that he had seen UFOs but like backing out last second you know and he's also I don't know there's some interesting stuff there so I that's fascinating um final thing I want to get into with you is you have this fascinating Theory what's fascinating in that you've sort of you know made very clear to me is that there are all these UFO crashes pre Roswell that are pretty well documented not not only you know in uh

Lombardy in Italy the one that Dave grush talks about the magenta crash but ones in the US and Cape Gerardo being kind of a famous uh uh case of that and you track those UFO crashes to some of the high- powerered radar capabilities that maybe were developing at the time well so um the between February of 2014 and SE September of

Air Force Human Resources world to bring me on board and I was enormously frustrated because I had already extended by six months I had to take a leave of absence from graduate school to take care of my mom and so they knew that I was GNA graduate and I'm wondering so in this six months while you're waiting for me to defend this dissertation why aren't you getting whatever you need to do so that as soon as I graduate I want to get I want to

get to work so I had seven months six months to just so I ended up diving deep into this literature over here so I come across the Cape Gerardo case um which essentially is a uh scenario where something crashes in a farmer's field in um Gabe Gerardo and uh the the weirdness about it was that there was bodies small diminutive bodies that

a reverend or a priest was asked to come deliver last rights to because apparently one of them was still alive and so the account of this is primarily from the priest's story of this and uh initially there were firefighters and then military folks showed up so on my drive across country to report into uh Air Force research lab in Dayton

Ohio I stopped in Cape Jadoo had some time to kill didn't need to be there for for a couple of days I was ahead of schedule and uh so I stopped in and became familiar and look walked the ground and so forth and then uh it occurred to me that I was I was only about a 5H hour drive depending on how much lead is in your foot from there to rright Patterson and then it dawned on me that

well if if something interdicted in the vicinity of R Patterson and if it was traveling fast enough it it could have crashed right there and so I had read uh Corso's account and a lot of other accounts Beyond Phil Corso uh Stanton Freeman wrote uh a book he investigated a lot of rosw earlier a lot of folks um Don um oh drawn a blank

Don Schmidt uh and a lot of folks that that really and so there was there was quite a bit of evidence that maybe radar played a role in it so I could easily a few years earlier right at before World War II is spinning up I know what R&D is like pre- Warfare right because that's what DARPA does and imagining uh folks trying to improve the

latest breakthrough in technology but it was a sensor radar was a sensor it was not an anything and so I could easily imagine folks just cranking up the power as as high as they could not to shoot anything down but to extend range and in the process of extending range unbeknownst to me unbeknownst to them this invisible thing this guy you can't even see next thing you know that thing's wobbling and

crashes four or five hour drive away and so uh I have no trouble believing that that is what occurred not just in Cape Gerardo but maybe in Italy as well because Marone was involved in you know when you look at the where where was Marone was it north northern Italy uh no well Mar Marone was a um I think he was an uh an

electrophysicist early on right I know but I'm wondering because the crash was in Lombardy in Northwest in Northern it I don't know I'd be curious where he was working that would be that would be a wonderful research research project to see if there were any Radars within a 5H hour drive of there that's fascinating oh wow so that would make sense right because this was the Advent of radar technology early on and so it it what makes sense to me is that

someone within the uh Army Air core right because there's still Army at that point uh realizes holy crap if we're going to start cranking up the power we got to make sure that that if we shoot anything down it doesn't land in an urban area so let's move this whole freaking Arrangement out to the middle of the desert somewhere White Sands would be a natural place to do that right and then we're cranking up the power again and the next

thing you know we shoot on a flying saucer happens to be during a storm right so maybe it was lightning maybe it was the r radar and the lightning at the who knows um but that's that's the smoke of speculation around that that makes sense to me it connects the dots John what do you want the world to know and where do you hope things go from here on the UFO disclosure front uh I just launched a a website to host uh a

couple a few books what's and by the way every 55% of the proceeds of those books goes to uh PTSD treatment for either veterans law enforcement firefighters whether or not it's a direct result of the 20 years of warfare after 9911 that's the robotics book that's what that is dedicated to and the abduction book that that I'm going to uh present the thesis to you for uh goes to

experiencers uh especially military experiencers I want to get them uh treatment with either hypnotherapy or whatever uh to help them deal with that trauma so um it's more than the tithing that that folks typically do at church oh it's I feel like it's got to be a bigger chunk right more than half so um the the underlying thesis of that book is just to fight fear so the the the website of fear fighter uh Donnet I

think is what we have um and it's just starting up so cool uh we should be able to accept pre-orders for the book on that but the basic thesis of the book is abductions are the elephant in the UAP room it is the reason for all the secrecy because lights in the sky isn't scary enough sure that's not going to result in in the the destruction the lapse of society MH

even divulging that there are some beings on these vessels these vehicles that are living beings or maybe they're biological robots but we have their M on the ground sakuro New Mexico 1964 J Allen heinik saw them and that's what flipped him uh into into believing that these at least that there are beings to where they're from who

knows um so none of that's scary enough to justify harming fellow military folks to keep it a secret yeah it's ridiculous it has to be too scary and what is scary enough for me to forgive everybody in the Legacy cabal that's that's that been harming our folks um and and mistreating our own

service members this is what I'm blowing the whistle on like I said I've never been read into anything yeah but I know that they have been tortured and mistreated and separated the corrosive nature of this compartmentation is denying our military personnel the resilience that they deserve because the best way to deal with PTSD is to talk talk about it with each other and yep what did they do with Terry and Toby split them reassign them

you can't talk to each other what what do they do with with Mario woods and Michael Johnson same thing yeah we don't even know where Michael Johnson is yeah you see it's replete throughout and so afosi yeah for me to forgive Richard Dodie and all those folks yeah that this is Air Force office of special investigation Air Force office of special investigation run rampant throughout all the stories where it's they're clearly part of kind of suppressing these these stories right arguably were instrumental in Paul

benowitz of suicide yes if if you dive into that uh whole case so that's horrific behavior and so it has to be something enormously compelling for me to forgive them so in a manner that I am willing to forgive my parents for demanding that I take in the Santa Claus conspiracy mhm I want the government to admit that they could not protect us

from the abductors Y and that's hard to do and I recognize that but suck it up world leaders yeah this is why you get paid the big bucks yeah this what guys used to tell me yeah hey boss that's why you get paid the big bucks sucks for you but you got to admit when you've screwed up yeah and then I'll be willing to entertain amnesty for you rather than stringing you up for the murders that you

either either inspired or at the bare condoned in trying to keep this a secret so that's the underlying aspect and the and the key is the notion behind fear fighter is look the best way to deal with fear is not to say stay all warm and Co in your cocoon of false belief you got to get out of that cocoon educate

yourself and choke out that fear like a freaking MMA fighter you got to wrestle it to the ground and choke it out and the best way to do that is to educate yourself so you don't have to be Lou alzando or Dave grush or Carl Nell you don't or Jay Strat or any folks you don't have to get readed in there is an abundance of literature that I am overlaps huge so I I know these guys get

frustrated with me because they're like how come your jaw isn't dropping dude there is nothing that you have told me even post 2017 yeah that I haven't already read before in fact I could probably make your jaw drop yeah with some of the stories I've heard yeah yeah yeah right yeah and so that's my message is fight the fear through education and awareness and what trumps all of this is what the bug Dr bug told me which

is we can't take your soul and so life after death is a pro scientifically proven fact and so even if you get you get grabbed by these guys and they rip you to shreds there's going to be some pain but they ain't going to get your soul and you might come back around and be empowered to do the same to them but

you shouldn't because you'll learn from that mistake that love is the answer it's just like Jake Barber said that's the answer and so I'm calling for ontological relief but you got to come clean first and admit that they that that you can't defend us or or admit that well this reverse engineering stuff yeah we've been doing it but it was for the right reasons because we wanted to defend you and now we can and I think

that's why this trickle has really opened the faucet and it's a turn at a time now it took 80 years you know and now it's it's really open in the poset and I think it's because the reverse engineering has been success special enough you do yeah you think we can fly these things uh I don't know about that I don't have any you think it's but modern Aerospace is benefited greatly like you know a lot of our top-of-the-line Aerospace you know or stealth Fighters or whatever from

from the the Brilliant Minds that I was blessed to interact with at DARPA I I I have no reason to call Ben Rich a liar wow well what a beautiful note to end on I I I really appreciate you John this was awesome a lot of fun thank you and thank you for the risk that you have accepted on behalf of your fellow humans oh yeah because what you're doing is really really important well I appreciate that that's part of that education yeah you're stretching those Minds it's just

like it's just like any athletic Endeavor you got to stretch you are too a team team stretching effort well thank you man