Why NASA Studies This Man (He Attracts UFOs!) | MEMBERS EARLY RELEASE

free lunch for my kids. Sick with Crohn's disease. And if anybody has Crohn's knows how bad that is. You know, you're in the restroom [music] 10 times a day. I was at 20 times a day at that point in my life. In January [music] of 2007, while fishing with friends in North Carolina, Chris Bledsoe witnessed a series of bright, intelligently [music] moving orbs in the sky. That moment doesn't end. It starts a series of unexpected and seemingly miraculous events.

And then my Crohn's was gone. I had no more [music] sickness. In the days and weeks that follow, the phenomena continued. The lights appear [music] again and again, sometimes at a distance, sometimes directly [music] over his home. He reports numerous encounters that don't resemble crafts, lights, or UFOs at all. But what he describes [music] is a luminous feminine presence, deeply unsettling in its archetypal [music] Her communication seems to go beyond the

clichés and [music] platitudes of normal contact experiences. They touch on humanity's deep moral decay, cycles of civilizational collapse, judgment, the apocalypse, [music] and renewal. They revolve around humanity reaching [music] a threshold. Well, I came back excited to tell it. That's when the next 5 years of darkness I talk about in my book started. >> His UFO experiences only serve to make him more of a pariah in his local

community of Fayetteville, North where fundamentalist Christianity is the only way and anything paranormal is considered demonic. >> NASA and the CIA show up at Bledsoe's >> And not just anybody at NASA and the CIA. I'm talking about a high-level NASA mission controller [music] who has worked on launches at Cape Canaveral since the Challenger missions in the '80s. And he said I was at the dinner table with the president and handed me that and

>> that? Yeah. Wow. >> And this. Yeah. Scientists, military, and other intelligence officials [music] follow suit. They grill Bledsoe on his experiences. Some imply that certain dates [music] and symbols he's given by the lady align with things they're already monitoring and have seen [music] from other authoritative sources. >> So they They have like a scientific model of how >> angels work at NASA. They know a lot more than we know than we think they do. I personally don't know what Chris

Bledsoe experienced and continues to experience to this day, but I know that his story doesn't sit at the edge of history forever. It's either going to collapse under scrutiny or force us to redraw the map. In this special episode of American Alchemy, we have a markedly different [music] conversation than the one that Chris Bledsoe is used to having. He took you to Zanesville, Ohio where you recovered a little piece of metal? >> Yeah. Do you know who's from Zanesville, >> do. T Towns and Brown, right? What?

Instead of just [music] retelling his story, we make some pretty mind-blowing connections from it. Ones involving secret societies [music] with access to time travel, anti-gravity experiments done in mid-century America, space metal [music] with curious properties that interact with consciousness in weird ways. What exists on the dark side of the moon? And what the world will look like in the [music] next decade. So without further ado, sit back, relax, and prepare to ascend [music] into the astral plane with this week's American

Alchemist, Christopher Bledsoe. >> This has been a long time coming. I'm here with Chris Bledsoe, who many call kind of a super experiencer because, you know, I was just rereading your book, UFO of God, and you your life is really just remarkable. You've had all these incredible deep experiences and I want to talk about those experiences, but I also want to talk because your story your story is well-known at this point.

I also want to talk about some of the philosophies that you've kind of come into based on your experiences and maybe have kind of a a metaphysical conversation, but I want to start with this very interesting discussion that we just kind of sparked up as you were walking in, which is you have this golden pin on your jacket. What is that Well, uh that pin was given me by uh someone everybody has read about, right? Down

down at Cape Canaveral without saying names and uh Um it signifies being off planet. So, from what I'm told, the people that get these have been in space before. from astronauts, pretty much. >> Right, right. And why do you think this person gave that pin to you? At the time I had no clue other than what they were telling me. Um It involved taking me into the astronaut crew quarters and going through a whole

thing because I was In other words, when this thing first uh this person from NASA came to my house with a backpack and whole lot of credentials that had everything from Area 51 to the CIA and all that combined And he um he tested the whole family with metal. He put a piece of metal in my hand. I was the last one to be tested.

So, all my four my kids and my wife, they all went into this one room. So, she got Ryan. He got Ryan's the first one. And kind of made it secret. He took Ryan into room, tested him and said, "Now, you go get the next person, but don't tell them." So, he went out and got each person in the family, tested them with this metal. They brought me in last and I had no idea what I was doing. I sat down on the edge of the bed. It was in Ryan's room.

And he put this piece of metal right here and said, "What do you think of I said, "Well, it looks like a piece of aluminum, like a postage stamp size, that size, thin." I I I just >> Was it light? Very light, yeah. And it was kind of a dull gray. It wasn't like shiny. It was aluminum of some sort. Then he reaches in his backpack pulls out another piece of metal that was different and it was like aluminum foil. Looked like foil. And it wasn't crease you couldn't crease

it, but it would wrinkle, but it would fold back out, but it wouldn't crease. You couldn't crease it. You could it would kind of roll up and then straighten out. But when he put that in this hand, it somehow or another created this current that went through where it was communicating. This part of metal was communicating with that part of the metal. And when that happened, it caused me to my eyes to roll back and he reached up and snatched it out of my hand real quick and said, "Why you?"

This is in the book, by the way. And I had no idea what happened. He said, "Why you? This close." I said, "Excuse me, what what do you mean what I mean?" He said, "Well, I would have known you were lying about being taken if you hadn't had a reaction to this." And he said, "I've only ever seen two and they were nothing like yours." That's what he told me. He said, "That started a a

a the next 2 or 3 years studying with them. And I'm being kind to my friend without saying his name, but you you know who I'm talking about. >> who you're talking about. Can I say who it is because it's I think it's Tim Taylor, who's a NASA mission controller. Who Yeah, his name is now sort of sort of out there and yeah, we should definitely be respectful to him as somebody who doesn't maybe want to do public interviews himself, but I think he's put himself out there enough to

with Elon Musk. But where it gets interesting is that he's also popping up in the lives of numerous UFO experiencers, claiming that he's a time traveler and works for an angel. Basically, he exists at the intersection between rigorous real-world aerospace work [music] and totally insane UFO lore. And that's why he's still American Alchemy's most requested guest. Some of the things that Tim Taylor told Chris would wholesale overhaul our

understanding of reality, if at all Really smart guy, like genius level and uh Really? Yeah. I enjoyed his company. We did a lot of stuff together. We traveled together. Uh uh we were able to recover some metal together up Wow. >> know that. >> Where was that? >> That was in Ohio. In Ohio? >> Yeah. Where in Ohio? In a little town called Zanesville. Zanesville? Zanesville, yeah.

and he drives up in his yard and there's this red piece of glowing He sees this thing over his house and it goes away when he drives up, but there's a piece of red glowing metal in the yard. He lets it cool, picks it up, and puts it in a shoe box and there it stays for 15 years. No way. And when he uh found out about me and read the story, he calls me and says, "I got something I want you to see." And so, I called Taylor and he and I flew up

This [laughter] is This is either uh uh engineered to make me excited >> or this is the most remarkable story I almost lost it during this part of the Townsend Brown was born. To me, Townsend Brown is the most interesting historical figure in the 20th century that no one knows about. I've independently uncovered an absurd

amount of information that leads me to [music] believe that Townsend Brown essentially discovered anti-gravity in the 1950s. He was funded [music] by the same physics patrons at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill that sent science down the wrong path with quantum gravity in 1957. He was also [music] backed by the highest levels of CIA and aerospace. There are even videos of Townsend Brown at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill celebrating because his experiments presumably worked.

It was sensitive to so so many things in vacuum. Finally, it was full of positive results. And that's just the tip [music] of the spear. We also have Karl Nell who helped set up Army Futures Command, which led all tech modernization efforts for the army, implying that Townsend Brown made breakthroughs in the world of gravity. Jesse's done a number of podcasts looking into Townsend Brown and some other very interesting uh like heretical technology. So, I'd

invite people >> uh unsolicited plug to check out some of Jesse's podcasts. Not to mention [music] NASA's top scientist in electrostatics, Charles Beeler, >> literally leaving NASA to start a propellantless gravity-based propulsion system that he says is a derivative of Townsend Brown's [music] work. The term asymmetric electrical pressure is similar to [music] Thomas Townsend Brown's research into asymmetric capacitors. And those older papers and that older subject matter [music]

um is probably valid for most of the point. I could go on, but I'll spare you. The fact [music] that Chris Bledsoe was taken to Zanesville, Ohio, an otherwise completely unremarkable little Ohio town, seems like a very unlikely coincidence. [music] And the fact that the goal there was to retrieve an exotic piece of metal seems even more unlikely, especially given that Tim Taylor was escorting Bledsoe there. As you're about to hear in this conversation, there are tons of other bizarre connections [music]

between NASA mission controller Tim Taylor and mid-century anti-gravity inventor Townsend Brown. this NASA mission controller who's obsessed with UFOs and this mid-century anti-gravity inventor, and then you're literally going to Zanesville, Ohio to collect UFO material, which is weird. It's a that's a random place, and that's where Townsend Brown was born in 1905.

And there's there newspaper you know, clippings of him creating, you know, wireless telegram basically at the age of 12 or something. That's crazy. True story. That's so crazy. And I can show you the metal. I'll give you a picture of it later. >> Can I please? Yeah. Can I feel the metal? Well, I don't own it. >> You don't own it. Okay, yeah, Tim has I would love I would love to see the picture. Yeah. And learn anything else about this Zanesville trip. That's just

plus some that I had. I had three pieces of it. >> Do you think Puthoff knows about Townsend Brown? Yeah. He does? >> Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, he told me he um he he he met him. Yeah. Um but uh that he never, you know, he didn't know how far he got, you know, sort of thing. Right. But how you know, how can be a little cheeky, but interesting. Yeah. For the audience, I mean, I'm sure they know this, but I'm obsessed with this mid-century anti-gravity inventor, Thomas Townsend Brown. Right. >> Who I'm very convinced made real updates

in the world of gravity. He was a very nuts and bolts, you know, inventor. And he worked at the highest levels Right. of military government with every kind of aerospace company you could you could guess. I mean, there's an FBI document on him saying he was the foremost radar expert in the Navy. And um and he was in charge of the Philadelphia experiment actually, which has all this lore about it and I who knows whether the, you know, pre-natacious story of that is true, but

um he was at you know, uh Martin Vega the year that Skunk Works formed. Right. He, you know, knew Curtis LeMay, knew Bill Lear, the inventor of the Learjet. Right. He was being funded by the guys who were sending physics down the wrong path while he was doing his, I think, more vital kind of anti-gravity experiments. But the kind of subplot of his life Right. is that gravity and time are very interrelated in general relativity. And what I found so fascinating is I made this whole documentary on Thomas Townsend Brown and

at the end of the documentary I make this connection that Tim Taylor told your son, Ryan Bledsoe, that he was part of a secret time travel group in NASA in the Bahamas and that Thomas Townsend Brown was the president. And I even then maybe I would have dismissed it out of hand, but I'd become this amateur historian of Townsend Brown. And he would always go to NASA in the Bahamas. And then in if you read Tim Taylor's biography Launch Fever, he's in NASA a lot. So, that does kind of place them both

in, you know, called the NASA at sometimes. Called the NASA group. >> The NASA group? >> Yeah. So, he took you to Is the Was the piece of metal this UFO metal in Zanesville related to Townsend Brown at all or >> Well, there was a lot of conversation about that and the amount of activity around that place, he said was uh all part of the land because where this metal was found, it was near the Indian Serpent Mound. All right. So, they know that there's a

lot of activity. He told me stories about um Townsend Brown. What did he say about Townsend Brown? Well, you know, his daughter was doing a book and Tim was helping her with that book. >> Tim was helping her with that book? >> Yeah, he helped write that book, that her book. I didn't know that. I Do you know, I found an Amazon review from his daughter about Tim Taylor's book Launch Fever. And this was before anybody knew about, you know, Tim Taylor because he hadn't even been written about, you know, pseudonymously in American Cosmic

by Diana Pasulka. This is in the early 2010s. Yeah. So, so he was helping Linda Brown, right? Her book. >> Right, her book, yeah. I didn't know this. That's amazing. And what did he say about Townsend He told me that her stories of these little things coming and landing in his yard getting out and giving him That's real. Well, at least according to his daughter, his daughter did a sort of AMA on you know, ask me anything on

Reddit. She talked about beings coming down and then entering I think it was like she was in the they were in the kitchen with her dad and her and they they were these sort of pale-skinned Yep. you know, looked alien like looked from a you know, like they were from another planet or it existed in another environment. And they talked all night. And then you know, they wake up the next morning. She thinks it's a dream and then two nights later they're at dinner

and she brings up the dream and Thomas Townsend Brown goes that wasn't a dream or [laughter] something like that. Right, exactly. Wow. Did he ever insinuate on what the NASA group this time travel group in the Bahamas was doing? He did. He did. He just told me at one point that he thought I may have to go hide out there a while. Really? Uh that was >> when it really first happened way back.

Cuz it was a dangerous place. The whole world was different 2008. It was it was the highest secured thing in the world. The UFO was more classified higher than the nuclear bomb. But you would have to hang out in NASA? Well, they mentioned that I may have to go there for protection. Interesting. Yeah. So, what's there? I don't know. I just that was all he told me. You know, he writes in Launch Fever his biography about flying these cargo jets back and

forth between Florida and NASA. >> right. And I think the the guy he was flying with was like selling drugs and he didn't even know about it. Like it was like he was he was just kind of be like along for the ride or whatever. But then he says some really trippy things around he goes time moved differently in NASA. But he's saying it like it's like island time, you know? >> Right. So, it's like and then you're like is that coded cuz he's telling you you know, that and Diana Pasulka about the Adjustment Bureau and like you know,

timeline hopping. >> he's saying time moves different in this NASA group but the in NASA but then he's also telling your son and you that he's in a secret time travel group with Townsend Brown in NASA. So, I'm like is he writing in code Prob- yeah. Those guys are all about yeah, they're so super secretive. Uh they can they'll tell you things and code like that. It's up to you to get it or not but Mhm. Yeah. [clears throat]

I want to meet the NASA group. How do how do we do that? I have no idea. Yeah, I don't know how I would find them or what. That was just that was something told to me years ago and Ryan heard it and uh it it never left me but as far as where and how and who I don't I don't know. We never got involved. Yeah, cuz it's so it's so like the world's so interesting cuz he also I believe he told you and I think Diana Pasulka that you know, he said read the

Adjustment Team or watch the Adjustment >> Yep, yep. Which is this the original was a Philip K. Dick book. Right. And then this movie with Matt Damon and it's all about adjusting little variables to change timelines. And he viewed his role in reality as doing that. Right. And so do you think he actually viewed his role as as doing that as part of this sort of timeline adjustment team? >> You mean Tim? Tim Taylor, yeah. Uh he's told me he was the one told me to read

to watch the movie. He said that movie was created for a reason. Watch it. It's a lot like that. And um then he said and in that movie you'll find a character named the Hammer. And he said and I work for the Hammer. And the Hammer works for God. And I'm like are you going to tell me more than that? And and that's all he would tell me. He said I work for the Hammer and the Hammer works for God. And you what do you think the Hammer is? Well, in the

movie he's in like an Archangel. Mhm. He's the guy that the lesser beings couldn't couldn't stop what was happening because of love, you know, if you watch the That's so fascinating. >> So, they send the Hammer down to take care of it and of course I won't spoil the movie but >> It ends up well. But yeah, well.

I mean do you do you think that he's in touch with a celestial being with an angel? He insinuated that and I can probably believe that. Yeah. Something. Yeah. >> Whether it's an angel or what I don't know. So what would the cuz he seems to show up in a lot of you know, super experiencers' lives. So there people who've had experiences here and there and then there people like you who have repeated experiences and a lot of interactions with this other

world. Right. And I found it very interesting that he showed up in Charles Hall's life and then he shows up in your life. Um I think he knew Whitley Strieber as well. Yep. Did you say Timothy Taylor? Yeah. Oh, he's a good friend of ours. Oh, so you know you know Timothy Taylor? Mhm. He came here because he found out about Charles. And that was when his daughter the one who had the the baby was like what was

she maybe in fifth grade when they came the first time? Mhm. I'm Yeah, we Why do you think he was he became interested in your story? M- my wife can answer all questions. Be- because he he realized as far as he was concerned that Charles was the the real article was legitimate. as I say it's really concerned me because I've tried to email other people

because he he brought other people to meet us and a visit with us. They they one of the guys cooked right here in my kitchen and so I tried to contact those people because I had uh emails for them and I never got a response about what happened to him. So, what do you what do you think it is with him? Do you think there's some mandate from the Hammer from this angel or something to interact with experiencers?

If he's being truthful about that I would say that's probably correct. There's some kind of mandate guiding So, he's definitely connected. I mean big time. Do you think he's being truthful or Yeah. Well, you see you know, sometimes you wonder if it's all uh smoke and mirrors designed to throw you off course, you know, but I listened to everything. I worked with him for three or four years before Diana met him. I introduced Diana to Tim.

We were working on crazy stuff like stem cell research and I have no idea what that is and what proteins are and anything medical, right? I'm a carpenter and yet I'm reading papers at night that they would send me. And my job was to draw whatever came out of me, whatever I saw. And so usually every week I'm sending in some sort of diagram of cells and all kinds of things. Wow. >> Yeah. So, it's almost like you were

part of like a secret science program Yeah. where you were given material to look at. You didn't even have context on the material but you were getting downloads about it. >> Yep, yep. And do you do you think any of that made it into his you know, he had a lot of biomedical patents. He had a company called Vivax Biotechnologies which he sold for $88 million. Do you think >> that's who I was working with. That's who you were working with? They were creating what's called a viograph which was uh it was based on

The metal that they recovered and infusing it into this um well, the particular and I have video of the operation of a young lady the first operation in the United States. Uh it was a a Spanish lady that had bone cancer in her thigh and they removed like 2 in of the bone. And they wrapped it with this viograph injected stem cells into it and in like

60 days her bone had regrown, pain was gone, she could walk again. Wow. Yeah. >> Yeah, no. I mean that is a operational functional you know, company with that does real things in the biomedical world. Yeah. And what what makes it fascinating is that maybe the backdrop of that company is recovered UFO material and somebody like you intuitively downloading the I don't know how much good I did, right? But it was uh to come from a carpenter

being ridiculed by the whole community to secretly drawing diagrams for NASA was pretty you know, it was pretty cool thing. Well, it it you know, you have all these rumors of like Philip J. Corso and you know, him being involved in you know, I think army's you know, foreign technology desk and transferring you know, crash materials from Roswell for example to Bell Labs so they could you know, help build you know, semiconductors, things like that. But what you don't hear of is

people download people like yourself who kind of tapped in downloading aspects of the functionality of some of these technologies. That's really interesting. Well, that >> I'm learning. I'm learning over the last night. It's been 19 years I've been doing this, right? A long time. And in that time I've learned a lot and I keep learning every day. But there is a great with the phenomena

guiding us and creating things in our path and if you're smart enough then you pay attention to that. All kinds of things come. It's like It's like being Sherlock Holmes. I'm like, oh boy, what's next? You know, so that's kind of the way I've modeled my life is is letting it guide my path rather than me try to drive the bus. I let that I call it the lady, right? Or the phenomena. Yeah. Yeah, the it's like the the way is not

the way. Like you you have to you have to or I think there's a concept called Wu Wei which is effortless effort. And there's sort of sitting back being receptive, listening to the signs and then just kind of you know, following following the path and that's a that's an art, you know, it's it's easy to get into this mode of being attached and trying to over engineer outcomes. Exactly. For example, in the music world I happened to I wrote about something that happened. I was given a message

that there um the the divine world encodes messages within the music that we listen to and we just don't know it, right? So it's being channeled by these musicians. And that led me on um tell you how manifestation works is when I was given that information, I was given five or six songs. Six. Five right away and one at another point.

And when I read the lyrics on it it was like, oh my god, this is crazy. This is crazy. I couldn't believe it. You hear these songs but you never read the words. Well, that day in 2012 I said, Lord, I wish I could tell Sammy Hagar from Van Halen or Robert Plant or Jimmy Page or Neil Young. These are the guys or or Metallica, right? These are the guys

that I just said a simple little prayer. You know, right off the top of my head, Lord, I wish I could tell them. Wow, this is what I was thinking. I get a phone call and it's Sammy's wife, Kari. And we become friends and then it turned into Kirk Hammett with Metallica and then I get a a text from my friend. He said, hey Chris, I'm in the pub in in England

and sitting beside me is Robert Plant and he's reading your book. >> No way. >> Yeah, and he That's crazy. He said, you're a happy birthday. And then the same two days later I get a call from Fred Durst, Limp Bizkit. >> Oh, yeah. Well, he's super into I think he has a UFO podcast. Yeah, I've been on his podcast. So anyhow, it just all poured out and it manifested. I didn't do it. I didn't seek these people out. They called me. And now that's um Sammy told me that the the song Love

Walks In Mhm. he don't even know where the words came from. Just came out of him and it is this song is like you have to read the lyrics on >> Wow. Yeah. Well, I didn't even I mean, it's crazy how much music is influenced by this stuff. Like I think Paul McCartney one of the Beatles had a dream about a flaming pie Right. and that was how the the Beatles name came about somehow. It was going to be spelled differently, Beatles, and then it and then it and

then it moved into b a t l e s after this flaming pie came down in this dream or something. I didn't And so yeah, you have a lot of these sort of stories. That's amazing. Yeah. Um Do you think that you know, because we we we often think of like, you know, the aerospace world that's interested in a lot of what you're doing is very kind of nuts and bolts focused, not Right. They don't care about, you know, downloads or experiences or whatever. Do you do you do you feel like they

really do they very they are really interested in the phenomenon and they they are learning from it as much as they are just, you know, writing equations on chalkboards? A million percent. In fact, in the last year I've or two years I've seen a huge increase in the the scientists, mainstream scientists that you know, forever like Diana, she was the first PhD that would even talk about this, right?

And back then if you even said this out loud, people would laugh and walk away. Nobody would talk but now there's over 200 mainstream scientists right now. That was the word I was told. By Dr. Eszter Varga yesterday. >> Oh, yeah. She's been on the podcast. still coming out with something. Cool. Yeah. But she um American deep tech. She's she's told me that there's at least 200 scientists that want to start

working on this thing. It's fascinating. Yeah, it's fascinating. And it almost feels like at times the scientists are being coordinated on a higher level. Yeah. And this gets into like the three-body problem or, you know, science fiction novels like that where you know, the way that the phenomena speaks to us is through scientific discoveries, innovation, through serendipitous meetings between >> Yeah. And I'm sure it's the same thing with art and other creation. Big time and to the creativity world, artists of

all kinds. In other words, I don't mean to interrupt but if if I had to say of all the people that call me that the majority of these experiences, a good majority of them will be that paint, that make music, that act. They're different type of people. Mhm. Creative people and for some reason they're the ones that have a lot of this experience and have been for years.

Makes sense that they'd be tapped in. I think it's more interesting in a sense that somebody like, you know, I've spoken to Hal Puthoff about this and he I always follow the synchronicities and when they stop, I know I'm on the wrong >> Yeah. And it's like this guy is a very serious scientist who's popping up not only in areas of quote unquote UFO science but in, you know, prosaically very interesting science. >> So Pretty serious guy all right. Yeah. And we were talking outside. It sounds

like you're in touch with some Lockheed guys, too. Yeah. What's what's the deal Well, I have friends everywhere. There's there's no shortage of people from NASA from Lockheed, from 3M, from uh from all over these scientists but my I I happen to have a friend that is a material scientist that works with this material and

he kind of stays pretty close to me. Followed me about We we travel together. We study together and doing a lot of things right now. Interesting. Who's that? I can't tell >> Does he work at a big aerospace corporation or He well, he yeah, you'll see him one day at He lives in Silicon Valley. But you'll see him one day. He'll be in a skiff somewhere under an airport or

he'll be in uh at NASA or he'll be somewhere in amongst all that um Yeah. Fascinating. Yeah. It's so interesting. He's educated me a lot on this metal and how it acts and and how it acts differently in zero gravity than it does on on ground level. How does the metal act differently in zero gravity? >> It's um it it it has a way of

well, just let's just say the the words I heard, this metal is but acts much like an animal. And that it is always seeking for energy and seeking to connect and how I got this pin was being off planet and being tested by that metal knowing that it bonded to me. So that's why this phenomenon's always around. It's it's trying to reconnect all the time.

And because you went up on a craft >> Yeah. you're somehow connected with the the metal. Yeah. How do you think you're connected with it? >> Into the DNA is all I know. It's a frequency. I think our DNA's transmitting a frequency which this Mhm. I've seen the papers on it and and a a little a radar type frequency. So it's pinging and it's receiving, sending and receiving. And um

connects with you on that level and I'm being very careful not to say a whole lot here, but >> I get a phone call if I say too much, right? But So, yeah. >> But they're clearly trying to cuz they know you have a public presence. They know you're going to get asked about this stuff. So, they want to get it out somewhat would be my guess, you know. There's a you know there's a scientist named Konstantin Meyl. He's in the Black Forest in Germany. And he talks about uh scalar physics and

its relationship with DNA specifically like DNA resonance with these exotic electromagnetic waves that exist in the scalar field. Um which if you think about it, if we are any sort of messages via our DNA, a transverse Hertzian a classic electromagnetic wave doesn't really make sense because it decays at 1 over R squared. So, if you're in a Faraday chamber you're you know, kind of in some remote place or whatever, the decay function on a normal electromagnetic

wave would be too stark for you to really receive a lot of information ongoing. But if you have some of these more exotic waves that travel at 1 over R, which a lot of these kind of deeper aerospace scientists believe possibly maybe your body would be able to download and encode a lot more information. And they say they think that the sun is a scalar wave generator. So, maybe the sun is you know,

constantly spurring evolution and and and Tim Taylor talks about in Diana's book American Cosmic that he's his protocols are around you know, you know, being in the sunlight and looking at the sun. Well, that's it. And and um in fact um I've read the paper on it 15 years ago, 13 years ago. And the thought is that the sun the way it shines at an angle on the earth it creates the green color spectrum, which

is the center of the color spectrum, And in that the sun is is affecting what's called ADT, which is the hemoglobin in your blood and the chlorophyll in plants. So, it when it hits that it starts this energy and it starts creating life. And so, the sun is telling everything how to be a pear, how to be a grass, how to be a tree, how to be a uh me or you. So, all the information of

is coming from that green light from what they're saying. It's just sending all information, all encoding to every living thing, birds. That's where it comes from. Yeah. It's really amazing. I mean, there's there's this idea of the anthropic principle, which is why is earth you know, this perfect kind of homeostatic like just place that that fosters life. And there you know, a couple of different explanations for it. One is

like we've tried a million different iterations. This is the Goldilocks zone. We just got really lucky or whatever to to live in the the the one where it's perfect. And then there's another one, which is this has been sort of created or simulated, you know, for for life. And if you think about the earth's magnetosphere the way it blocks cosmic radiation, but allows just enough cosmic radiation to allow for the perfect amount of natural selection to allow for you know, real real evolution. Um but then the magnetosphere of the

Fugal, right? So, we were at the Menorah And they took me in the basement of the lab and put me in a Faraday cage. And it's uh it's silent. It's walls like this thick with uh you know, I'm in a I'm in the basement of the lab in a build in a basically a coffin is what it looked like. With ceilings of copper and the walls are copper. So, no electromagnetism can get in there. And so, they had all these cameras outside pointing up at the sky.

And I'm in this thing and they have Dr. Thompson from from New York neuro PhD in neuroscience was monitoring me and he said if you if you sense a UFO over the complex just point to the Every time I pointed they were filming something above the the buildings. And that from that point on John and a whole lot of other scientists

says this proves it's consciousness. It's not electromagnetic it's consciousness. So, it's instantaneous it's our thoughts, which is what's creating everything. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, well if you think of you know, we phonons, which are sort of you know, quantum vibration packets and then you have photons, which are quantum light packets. Maybe at some point we'll figure out quantum thought packets or

something. That's it. It's all thought. It's just it's just how it works with You know, I don't have to go out and speak to get this thing to come. I just think about it. But it knows our thoughts. And in advance of what you're going to think. You can't fool it. At all. There's no way. Wow. I want to go where other people haven't gone in interviews with you. Do you feel like

you know, when you read like and this is going to sound like a crazy but like when you read the book of Acts and you know, learn about Jesus, do you feel like he is kind of you know, really spiritual profound kind of experiences what Diana Pasulka calls in her book hierophanies, And again, this is not to make him out

to be this exclusive untouchable you know, being or state, but like maybe maybe some people can reach a state. And do you feel like maybe you're you're in that sort of Christ consciousness and that allows you to to have 100%. Yeah, 100%. And um you know, the way I was born and raised a Baptist and and married a Pentecostal Holiness girl and you know, was very deep into the church and loved it. And my wife still goes.

She was at church yesterday and um or the day before Sunday. But the way you know, when Jesus came, he wasn't a Christian. He was just saying the kingdom of heaven is within you. You you you can talk to God yourself. And you don't need to pay anybody to have that. And I don't think they liked him saying that a whole lot and his life was cut short because of that. Well, that's one of my favorite lines. It's in

an apocryphal, you know, the Gospel of Thomas, but it's you know, if you look to the sea the fish will precede you. If you look at the sky the birds will precede you. The kingdom of heaven is inside of you. >> Exactly. And all around you. you know, and then you'll have hardcore biblical scholars say, "Oh, that was written 150 years later and you know, Doesn't matter. Those are words Jesus used. The kingdom of heaven is within you. That spark, that divine spark. And and you can yeah. Do you how do you how

do you cuz like I feel like my on world view and ontology in some ways matches a lot of yours and what you say. And then I think there are a lot of people out there who are like who is this guy saying that he sees orbs and you know, that's a 747 or a satellite or whatever. What do you what do you say to those >> Um you know, I expect that. I've learned until you see it, experience it, you're

just uninformed. You know, it's real. It's 100% real. And I have shared it with groups as large as a thousand at one time. With a PA and it's the most liberal group you know, I've ever been to was Contact in the Desert this past summer, And here I am being dragged by the hand all day. You need to be in this room at this time, this room at that time. Hadn't eaten all day, hadn't been to the bathroom and

it's like 7:00 at night and I'm finally you know, and I deal with rheumatoid so my energy levels in the evening are low. My wife comes in or the my assistant comes in and he says, "Oh, you got a sky watch at at at 9:00." It was 8:00 then. I was like, "Oh my god, I forgot all about that." Huge pressure. It's it's cloudy. It's raining in Palm Springs. It never rains in Palm Springs, right? It's

And they said there's a big group sitting outside waiting on you. So, I like I'm like I took my told my wife I said take me somewhere to where nobody can see me because if they see me there was always 50 people in line, So, she took me over into a little sitting area where it was dark and I lay back and I looked up at the sky and I said, "Lord, I need help. I'm stressed. Tonight it's raining. There's a thousand people out there wanting to see something."

And suddenly, when I said that, my wife sitting beside me, I heard this this telepathic voice say, "Don't worry about the rain. It'll just get more interesting." And then I saw these three orange orbs come down under the clouds and this digital digit it said 9:45. Just flashed right up. I said, "Okay. There'll be three orange orbs at 9:45." So, I got up. I walked

over to the center of a thousand people there in a big circle and I'm in a 20-ft circle that they kept that where I could walk around in it with a microphone. And so, I told the whole group an hour in advance. I said at 9:45 there'll be it three orange orbs that appear underneath the clouds. And exactly at 9:45 it happened. Whoa. Do you have video of that? >> Yeah. Wow. >> And you can hear me on the microphone.

So, I recorded predicting it an hour in advance. But I didn't predict it. I saw it. It shared it with me. Mhm. That's so fascinating. It's like that the Fatima prophecy but compressed and at a UFO conference. >> But you know what I did? I'm at a UFO conference and there, you know, some of them's got tin foil hats on and they have all these Galactic Federation. Well, I you know. It doesn't compute with me, right? So, I basically held a little church

at the most liberal thing. I did not church but I said, "Look, we're just going to say a little prayer here." This is how it works for me. There is no summoning. All this thing you hear about summoning these things as whoever's doing this, well, that's why because you're you're open to anything But I always use a little prayer. And so, I just told them. I said I believe that the Holy Spirit

is this beautiful lady that gave me this information and I'm just going to ask her right now to share her presence with us. And that's the only thing I said. What do you think of cuz it seems like you're coming at this from a very There are rumors that the legacy UFO program itself uses protocols to attract UFOs to come in. Sometimes use directed energy weapons against them, get them to land scionically through what they call

scionic assets. >> Okay. So, that would be finding somebody maybe similarly tapped in as as you are but who's sort of not maybe come about it in the more kind of earnest spiritual way through life experience that you did. Maybe they just have some ability or maybe they've been given a protocol or something. What are scionic assets? Um when we look at collecting data, one of the areas that we look to collect data is through a scionic asset, which is an

individual who's trained in remote psychic abilities, telekinesis, that type of thing, which is basically through a number of different protocols can transition into a place where they are highly sensitive to their environment from from the point of view of consciousness through a consciousness field. How do you feel about that? Attracting crafts to come down, trying to derive material

from these crafts or get downloads from uh but for like defense, you know, kind of military industrial complex purposes. Well, I've been you know, I work in and around a lot of those people and I've had a lot of proposals that uh uh you wouldn't believe. even proposals if I could get it to come down, could they shoot at it? I'm like, "Absolutely not." >> Yeah. That's not going to happen with me. You want to study it? What I what I see is

it's wanting to communicate with us. you hear about all that but I've not seen any of it. I haven't seen the results. So, there's a lot of talk out there but not a lot of data to show, right? Where I show the data. I take a thousand people out or 500 out and we get things that appear to have wings, orange glowing beings as many as 20 at the time fly 25 ft over our head and appear out of thin air, poof, come

right over us glowing. And um so, it's very spiritual and sacred to me and I would never but as far as you know, I heard some of the things on Asia disclosure and they were talking about negative parts of it. Um orbs being negative. Um I've never experienced that ever in my whole 19 years of doing it. In fact, you talked about the book of Acts when Saul was on the road to

What was it that appeared and blinded him? Mhm. What was it? >> It's an orb. Whoa. Flashed him. Said it flashed around him. Mhm. Blinded him. It was a ball of light. >> Mhm. Same thing. >> And so, you know, it's it's all in your thought process. If you grounded with that humbleness and earnest and you love, then you're going to get that. But if you put something out, I mean, if we want aliens, right? We create this in

our brain. If we want aliens with red guns, if you get enough of the population to think on that, that's probably what will manifest. What do you think the orbs are? It's the sort of perennial question cuz I think a lot of people will have these experiences. I think a lot you know, they they'll meditate, they'll be deep in prayer and they'll see something come I I I have an experience like that where I was doing holotropic breathwork with a friend in Silver Lake, California of all places. Like the last place you'd ever expect to see anything and we saw two

metallic orbs show up and it doesn't feel coincidental that like, you know, for him I think it was his first time doing holotropic breathwork >> Right. you know, you're supposed that's supposed to get you into a state where your brain I think endogenously releases DMT and you're you're in this kind of heightened spiritual state. Um What do I think it is? >> What do you think they are? Well, um I'm very careful to try not to label

because it's all speculation. You know, you asked a question, what do you think? Well, I'm I'm guessing, right? All of us And nobody's experienced that I don't think any more than I have. I I see it just about every day of my life and it comes in my house, orbs appearing in my room, over my chairs and flying through the house and stuff. So, you think you experience it more than anybody in the I haven't seen anybody with the data I have. Mhm. And show me the data and then we'd Mhm. You know what I'm saying? But people are seeing it now. Mhm.

And I predicted that. Mhm. In my book, you'll read where I wrote about a certain incident that was going to happen in future which was when Iran and Israel began to exchange missiles at one another. At that point is when these balls of light, these orbs were going to start wrote about that and that 12 years. And then look last November. Mhm. Mhm. These drones, supposedly

drones that show up. Those aren't drones. Mhm. They're orbs coming out of the sea, appearing and they're saying, "Stop." Mhm. They de-escalated and they kind of settled. They started putting up 30,000 All of a sudden now there's orbs all over Europe. So, what do you think the orbs are? >> based on uh the patterns that I've seen, I'm saying I'm guessing, right?

But um 19 years of research and prayer, simple prayer, that don't have to say it verbally, just think it, um leads me to believe it's uh connected to our thoughts, very caring, loving, and are beings. I can share a video with you of an orb with a lady standing beside me and another lady. I got one on

each side. This one has cancer, stage four kidney >> Jesus. And she's missing one kidney Year and a half later, it metastasizes in her other kidney. She calls me. So, she's worried about her the chemo's not working. So, she had a poor chance of survival. So, she calls me and comes to my house. This was 2015, I

guess, and 2013, maybe. five of them. So, it's all of those, myself, my wife, and some of my children, and three Native Americans. They're outside. They're They just happened to show up at the same time, friends of mine. And so, I got them to kind of do a spiritual song that they do for healing for her. All of a sudden, in the video, you'll

see an orb appear. And it comes zooming right up to me. And all of a sudden, it flashes. And out of that comes a tall, glowing figure, about 6 to 7 ft tall. And then, it just kind of moves over out of the camera, right in front of this And then, she goes to get her scan on. My lady has no more cancer. What? Yeah. And I have it on video. So, I would love to see that video. >> I'll share it in a little bit with you.

That would be amazing. That's amazing. >> So, 19 years, I have more data about this and more than most people can imagine. Would she ever go on record and talk about this? >> Yeah, probably. Wow. I'd love to speak with her. This is so It's so amazing. >> So, this is why I always lent to the spiritual side. Mhm. Uh you know, I I believe that if there's What is an angel? Mhm. It's a messenger. I don't know what it is. I know that it it is

to me, it's uh it's a And it could be just a fractal of itself, which that word means God. And it comes back to the creation or the creator, that mind. Mhm. So, maybe these lights are just fractals of that. But, I don't know. Do you believe Tim Taylor is a time Well, I'm guessing, you know, people say that, but it's possible. It's very possible. We were talking right before

we were rolling about intersection >> Right. Points where maybe you can hop between timelines or Exactly. What does that What does that mean to you? Well, um head around. There's no words for that. The vocabulary for all this is just like very small. But, um Yeah, I'll have to think on that one, what it means.

>> having a dream the other night about that, about timelines changing, it's such a weird dream, but it was like, you know, it's like there's stories of This is really random, but like Bill Murray, the actor, he'll walk around New York City and he'll like take a french fry from somebody eat it, you know, in their restaurant or whatever. And you know, he'll just like literally like off the street. And then, they'll look at him, they'll be like, "That's Bill Murray, like taking my fry or >> And and then, he'll he'll look at them and he'll go, "No one will ever believe

you." And that's what a lot of the phenomena it feels like. It feels like You know, it's like the perfect I'm sure the perfect amount of the video that you described was cut off where open-minded people will believe it, and then some hyper-skeptic will not. Right. And there's it's it's like there is always some little stigma left on the evidence that you do have that is fully debunkable. But, it's it's always like

this like the phenomena. >> That's the phenomena. >> It is. It's messing with you. >> designed It's doing that because there are three kinds of people. Mhm. Now, I've talked about this many times. There are three types. Yes. Probably more. Okay. But, there are people that can right? They can see this. There are people that I can teach to see. Mhm. And there are people that can never see. Oh, damn. They'll never see it because they're skeptical. And when you're skeptical

about this, you will never be in the club, ever. It will not let you in because it doesn't want to mess with your free will. But, skepticism is also good. You know, I think >> some skeptics can come seers, right? Sure. But, there are some that can never. Their brains are wired you know, to where it is a block. >> You do need some filtering mechanism. You need some something in your brain being like, "That feels wrong or false,

you know." >> What's the phrase, you know, your mind can be so open, your brain can fall out or you know. >> So, do you How do you view that? Cuz discernment seems like an important, you know, part of weighing your way through this topic. 20 years of it, 19 years of me when it first happened. All I knew is that I was afraid when I was looking at it in the broad daylight. It came out of the sky in daytime. It wasn't in dream, it wasn't at night, it was in the broad daylight. And they came

and they took me. So, that programmed to me in a way there was never doubting, ever. Doubting. >> What Describe this whole experience. So, you They was used to broad daylight and they came and took you. Who's they? Well, they, whoever they are. Yeah. Um And this is in my book, UFO of God, by the way. I haven't checked it out. I haven't plugged it yet, but It was 19 years ago on a January the 8th of 2007.

It will be 19 years. I was down and out and lost everything. Lost my home a home, my income. I had too many houses on the market. I was building 100 homes a year and had been for 19, 20 years, and the World Trade Center thing happened, and then the many housing bubble bust, and so I found myself in a place where I was it living in a a million-dollar home on the golf course, and now I'm in a mobile home

with no income. And I'm having to apply for free lunch for my kids. That's how bad it got. >> And so, I'm crying out to God, walking along I had gone fishing at the river with my son and three other guys, and they wanted to fish, and so I walked away. They were sitting on the bank of the Cape Fear River, and I walked up the way we came in. We were down in the bottom, you know, you cross a big cornfield, and then you go down in the river bottom.

So, that about a quarter mile down in the bottom is where they were sitting on the bank, and I told them I'm going to walk up to the field and look for deer or whatever, just Not telling them how depressed I was and where I was. I mean, I was struggling Sick with Crohn's disease. Had it 18 years, suffering with it, and um anyhow, I walk up to that field, and it was just about

10 after 5:00 when I started up that way. Took about 5 minutes to walk, maybe when I got to the top of that hill, there they were, two of these big balls of fire, like flaming 40-ft round, red, orange, glowing balls of fire, and the the fire is going around it, and these little tips were shooting up of it, flames. And there were two of them. Side by side, very low down, probably

couple hundred feet above the trees and about 300 yards away. And I'm at the back of the field, and they're up at the road, the highway, you know, that's where they were. And I'm sitting there looking at them, scared to death. First, I was mesmerized, like, "What in the world?" >> I'm a commercial pilot, still have my tickets, and um so, I knew right away what we were looking at wasn't anything Fort Bragg or any military, anybody had.

And so, the chill came over me. It's like, "Oh my God, what am I looking at?" So, this is My mind went from amazement to fear suddenly. And then, I guess 5, 10 minutes sitting there, watching it, I got so afraid, I wanted to run. So, I turned my body to point it down the hill to go run down to where my son was on the bank of the And I had to look back one more time. So, I turned to look back before I went

to run, and when I did, the third one, a third one above me was invisible. It was not visible. It just appeared and shot right straight down in front of me. 5:15, 5:30 in the evening in January. It's not dark. 4 hours later, I come walking back to the river where they were, and my son was missing. He wasn't there. He had gotten lost looking for me on foot.

I couldn't compute any of that. How I had been gone for 20 minutes is all I could think. And they were fussing at me, "Where have you been? We've been looking at you all It took me it took me a long time to reconcile that. And then, my Crohn's was gone. I had no more sickness. And if anybody has Crohn's, knows how bad that is. It's uh it's the worst thing. You know, you're

in the restroom 10 times a day. I was at 20 times a day at that point in my life. So, I'm suffering with sickness and suffering mentally and depressed and fighting all of it. I was at the very bottom crying out, "Lord, help me. What do I do?" >> You're living in a relatively small town in North Carolina where you were you know, very successful and known by all your community members and you were at the depths of kind of despair and I'm sure feeling like a pariah or something

among your community. Oh, yeah. Well, I came back excited to tell the And that's when basically the next 5 years of darkness I talk about my book started. And it was the pitchforks came out. The holy water came out. And the social services came to my house trying to remove me from the house. But real quick, so you said that you thought it was 20 minutes had gone by.

>> It was 4 hours. >> It was 4 hours. And do you remember what you had experienced? Did you recover the >> I recovered quite a bit of them. How did you recover them? Um a time and through hypnosis and a doctor from Harvard helping me. And then you got to wonder is it all real, but I can tell you they talk telepathically. Who was the doctor from Harvard? >> Dr. Michael O'Connell was his name. And is he um done this with other experiences? >> Yeah, he was trained by John Mack.

>> That's amazing. >> I didn't know there was a doctor at Harvard currently who was trained by So John Mack was the head of the Harvard psychiatry department >> Yeah. who saw a lot of experiencers. And originally he got into it cuz he was interested in missing time. Right. So like all these people are coming with missing time and then he he had been child at friends synchronistically with Bud Hopkins who was very interested in Right. experiencers, abductees. So he has an heir at Harvard, John Mack does, Michael O'Connell. >> Well, he's dead now. He died. >> Oh, that's unfortunate. I was literally going to be like, "I want to interview

him." Yeah, he's uh he was a a lovely guy. I mean, we bonded really close until he died. He lived in South Carolina, so I lived you know, hour and a half from him, so we visited a lot. >> Wow. I think another thing for people to understand, if they are skeptical of something coming out in a hypnotic these experiences are so traumatic. They're so foreign to you when they happen. Right. If you look at any other extremely traumatizing experience just

in the world, Right. um a woman who's or you know, somebody experiences child abuse or like something extremely, you know, Right. serious that just shatters your whole being, you will repress that memory. Yeah. And it will often have you know, you'll have fragments of it, you'll have shards of it, uh but it'll be like broken glass and it will you'll need techniques like this at times to recover the those memories. So

So this guy, Michael O'Connell, works with you and what what what do you end up recovering? Well, what he you know, what he did, I'll give you a short on what he did. He he came and he started just dialogue, talking and told me that he knew from his studies that they can tend to pack a lot of information in your mind it's locked away in there and that it if you were to remember it all at one time, it'd probably drive you

crazy. So he um I can tell you I had severe headaches if I tried to think past that missing time. I would pass out. Mhm. I did it over and over when they were questioning me. I'd get to a point I couldn't think anymore and the headaches would come so bad I would pass out. You know, there's a there's a really great book by my mind's just going to all these crazy places, but there's a book called Healing Back Pain by Paul Sarno. It's

this amazing book that healed a lot of people's backs psychosomatically because it it talks about chronic pain as being adaptive from a psychosomatic perspective. And so maybe even this was the case with your Crohn's disease that you were facing where it is more adaptive to feel physical pain at times than to process emotional pain. Right. And so it would make sense that actually physical pain would be the blocker for something that was maybe more emotionally Right. painful or

transformative or something. Makes sense. Yeah. So um So we started working together and he'd tell me we're going to we're going to program you to where that all the this information comes out little at a time, not too much, but you'll remember it all. That's what he said. Immediately when he did work with me, within days I started having these nightmares and dreaming and speaking in

my sleep and talking and my wife and kids were videoing me in the bed. They'd hear me you know, saying all kinds of crazy about my experience and But what what it was like, Jesse, it was like a virtual tour. Mhm. In other words, the they took me the first thing I remembered was seeing Egypt by over the pyramids, looking over the pyramids and seeing the Sphinx. That's all I remember that and seeing this

temple, Hathor's temple. Mhm. And all the animals and the birds, it was just like this video that was playing in my brain about Egypt. And so I you know, I studied everything I could study about that. I went to to scholars like Dr. Gilbert and learned from Robert all kinds of sacred geometry I didn't know you learned from Robert Gilbert. >> Yeah, he lived in Asheville, right? Close to me, so >> Famous Rosicrucian scholar.

>> Yeah. Interesting. >> Loved the guy. Wow. Yeah, he was a very sad. He was I think a nuclear chemist and he just passed away from cancer very recently. This year, I believe. >> Yeah, this year. But a world of knowledge and he helped me a lot um understanding the symbols I saw about Egypt and then you know, 2019 comes along. I write about this in my book. Um I'm sick with rheumatoid arthritis now

and I've been on chemotherapy for like 6, 7 years. I'm down to 150 some pounds walking on a cane and now I'm migrating to a wheelchair. That's where I was in 2019. Diana and Tim were in the Vatican archives in 2017 and I was supposed to go with them, but I couldn't. I was sick and they were Oh, you were supposed to go on that trip. >> Well, it could have been arranged. Yeah, it was all about me the the whole thing.

When they went there, they had a ceremony in the Vatican. It was supposed to be a ceremony for you. Yeah, they had a ceremony. They put my picture and the picture of the Pope on the outside of the archives and then they placed my photo between the books of Galileo and Copernicus. Really? Yeah, to be there forever. No way. Yeah. Sure did. Do you have you have photos of this? Yeah, I do. Could you send that? Yeah. Wow. This is amazing. >> Yeah, so So and who was was Tim Taylor

prompting them to do this ceremony or >> I think Diana's connection to the Vatican and this the lady I speak about, you know, I here I come in 20 um 12 having an experience with this lady, this beautiful glowing lady that um Well, that was something too because that was at the end of 5 years and I was fighting the government, the social services for my sanity. Yeah. Um But

real quick, so cuz you were describing your first experience that you know, O'Connell helped you get out. And so you're you're around the pyramids, you you you see the sacred geometry which you know, Dr. Robert Gilbert helps you kind of decode. Right. Did you decode anything? Did Did Did Did you notice any sort of >> Yeah, I did. I started seeing likeness in their the the way they portray their deities is um >> and the whole matrix of the thing, you

know, it's like when Jesus was born, it an angel came and said, "Go to Egypt, right?" Well, we don't realize that Egypt was controlled by Greece for 500 years before that, right? So perfect fit for him to go there and to grow up there when you start seeing the similarities between the two, they're it's pretty much the same thing. And Did the stories between you and him

the Trinity, Jesus and the Trinity and then Ra and Horus and the whole thing. They have a tri triad there, right? Mhm. But they're their deities are portrayed as animals and birds, forces of nature. This is what Dr. Gilbert spoke about that they it's all about everything, nature and humanity and so and then you read the story of Ezekiel and the wheel within the wheel,

right? He walks between two of the cherubim, it says, and he walked between and there he met an angel, right? And what was it? It had faces of animals and only one part human. Mhm. So, is is is not like grandma with wings and a beautiful robe, right? This is these things are creatures and it's always um >> Did you see these creatures? No, I I only I've studied them.

>> Okay. I saw the creatures, yeah. I drew them Yeah. >> when they were um little glowing beings about this tall. But those seem more of the variety of the extraterrestrials or aliens people kind of experience. >> Well, they say that until you read Daniel chapter 10 when it talks about an angel that he saw. Mhm. And when I described this little being, I said he looked like glass. He was shot so shiny. His whole body was glowing like he had a suit on that was gleaming like glass. Did you see this alien in the in the

craft or >> I saw it standing from me to you from me. And this was in the on the in like the woods? >> Near your house? >> Yeah. And I I wrote about this and um And then he had a little triangle >> triangle on his chest. Yeah, funny. There's a triangle right there, right? >> Oh, there you go. I was thinking that when you were like, "Look at my little pendant." I was like, "Well, was that an homage to the triangle from the alien being?" Mhm. That was from NASA. >> And too, I have multiple videos and and

if we go skywatching at some point, you'll see the phenomena will always try to line up in a triangle or in threes. >> Interesting. So, it's like a maybe the Trinity or something. >> Yeah, it's telling us something, right? What is that? I I don't know. I'm It's all speculation. I'm learning. What else did Robert Gilbert tell you? Because he did seem like a person who was very tapped into >> Oh, yeah. >> kind of deeper esoteric truths. Yeah, a lot. I learned a lot from him that that helped me understand that this

world is so far more complex. For example, um he described pendulums. Mhm. If you go to Egypt and you dig in the soil there, the most artifacts that they find under the ground in Egypt are pendulums. >> Is that true? Yeah. >> That's the most frequent artifact >> frequent. They find a millions of them. And so, he explained to me what they knew and how the the people that set Washington up, they did the same thing. Why they have an obelisk in

Washington, why they have one in Central Park, why is there one in France and in England? They have and they went to Egypt and got those things and brought them back. And stood those stones up. Well, you know, uh if you look at uh Charles L'Enfant, you have all this kind of Freemasonic symbolism around DC and that is definitely derived from ancient Egypt. In fact, I've been inside of this like Freemasonic temple in DC and and by

the way, I'm not a Freemason. >> Right. I wouldn't be saying this if I was, obviously. Right. Right. but like it's it's just it you might as well be in like an Egyptian temple or something. It's all Egyptian symbology. >> Yeah. And so, you think there's like a link between I think there's it's a big mystery, but there's a link Yeah, somewhere or another. Wow. Yeah. So interesting. And then the other connection for you with ancient Egypt is so you're around the pyramids and you see these symbols, but and then you

obviously encounter these beings. But later you encounter the lady. Right. And she describes herself as Hathor, is that right? >> Well, that was one name she is. She she said she had many names. >> Mhm. And um she had been called many things throughout the world. In other words, Diana, Demeter, Isis, Hathor, Hera. the Virgin Mary, everything. She's had many names throughout history and by

every culture. And the way she explained it to me helped me understand people conceive you know, like the the Daoist or the the Muslims or the the Catholics or whoever uh only imagine God in their minds. We all do. We imagine that and it turns into an ugly thing because

religions tend to think they have the skinny on God and therefore we going to go to war with you because you don't believe like us. That's that's the problem. That has to stop. This is the message she told me. That she had many names throughout history and that God is God. And we don't know what we think we know and we need to sit back and re-analyze you know, be good children and or we're going off the cliff. Mhm.

>> That's kind of the thing she told me. And she told me about the missiles. That was in 2012. >> Mhm. But um uh it was so much there. I came out of in 2012 telling it like right away what that what that she explained to me. And you received a prophecy about 2026 as well, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. And what was that? Well, she said uh and I had no idea what it meant. Still

don't. Other than she said that when the star of Regulus, which is a blue star, when it appears red on the at the dawn uh before the sun comes up and the gaze of the Sphinx. In other words, I saw it in a vision, the whole thing. You could see the Sphinx facing east and this thing's just cresting the top. She said, "When that happens, that will uh will be a sign that ushers in a new

knowledge for humanity." I said, "Does that mean the return of Jesus or the return of Christ consciousness?" It could. And I uh think that's possible. Uh but >> it it it's it's it marks a sign, she said, where the the the darkness would be exposed and the truth would be revealed. Mhm. So, I think we're going to learn

over the next couple of years that you know, and this was 12 years ago I said this, 13 years ago, 2012. >> Right? And how when these missiles started flying and the orbs started that got a lot of attention on me real quick. Yeah, I'm it's funny. I'm caught between two minds. One is you know, I think even the book of Matthew it's something like nobody knows >> other than God. >> Right. Uh paraphrasing, but yeah, nobody knows the day. Um and then on the other hand, it does

feel like just this gestalt sense of like things are getting weirder. >> Yeah. Dark truths are being revealed ongoing. Feels like it's already started. Um and it feels like we're on the verge of uh some sort of paradigm shift. >> Yeah, we are. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with that a hundred and I think everybody sees something coming and a new knowledge is coming and a new shift that um things that I know that um

imagine a world without oil. So, you think we're going to have free energy at some point soon or something? >> Imagine a world without rockets. Right. So, that kind of knowledge alone would change everything. >> Right. All of humanity. And so, that's in our future. Well, that was Thomas Townsend Brown's vision, you know, a world beyond rockets that you know, he had this model of electrogravitics, which connected electromagnetism and gravity, which you know, in kind of our

standard physics is you know, we don't have a link between those two things. >> if you were to get a link, if the input was pure electromagnetism or you know, electrical and the output was some sort of gravity gravitational perturbation, um that that that would be paradigm shifting. I mean, you get well beyond what SpaceX is, which is extremely inefficient. You know, most of I believe the the Starship, their latest rocket is I think it's 5,000 metric tons and a an

extremely high percentage of that. I mean, the payload capacity of it is like 150 tons. So, that ratio alone, it's all fuel. The whole thing is fuel. That's not efficient. That's not alien interstellar space travel. Doesn't make sense. Well, imagine a day that we won't need those things. Mhm. In fact, they probably already had that. >> Do you think they did? I think so. Really? I think it's possible. So, why not cuz why not let it out then? Because it

it would change everything. Mhm. It could it could create something that has to be given slowly. It's too disruptive. >> Too disruptive, yeah. Imagine. >> definitely be destabilizing for >> if you had say right now we're paying I'm just going to throw fake numbers out there, but $15, you know, per kilowatt hour for electricity or whatever. If that reduced to 10 cents per kilowatt a whole lot of institutions would kind

of crumble. Corporations would experience a lot of Like for the people who are like there it wouldn't, you know, destabilize things. I think that's crazy. I think it would. I think it'd be very positive. Well, it would be in the end, but imagine now old tankers, the thousands of them, or refineries, and all the jobs that's involved with it. So Yeah, but then the imagine the abundance on the other side. All of those people, their quality of life of life would be dramatically different, better. Yeah.

>> So, is that the new knowledge? I don't know, but I think that is a is a is a whole lot of things that are going to come forward that have been hidden from us. And the main thing is the truth that we're not alone. Yeah. I mean, that well, that's clear to me, you know. I think that's that's definitely a thing. >> And so, I believe next year we'll be closer to that than ever. Yeah. And the word apocalypse, by the way, you know what that means? The unveiling. Yeah, to

to reveal a secret. >> a secret. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's all it and people think when you hear that, and if you look on Google, it says the ultimate destruction, the end. You know, it's lying to us. That's not what the word means at all. It means to reveal that which has been hidden. And it's it's the veil thinning, and I think for some people that will be very good, and for other people it'll be very bad. It depends on your orientation to it. And I think it does have this connotation of, you know, Beelzebub coming down and breathing fire

onto everybody, sorting people and whatever, but like I think if you were oriented in a in a good way spiritually, I I you know, I don't think it'll necessarily be bad for you. I also don't even, you know, we're talking about it like it's a one, you know, crazy event with these like divine beings. Maybe it's like a slow-moving >> the way I see it. It's not like snap your fingers and something We're not going to wake up on Easter or whenever that time happens. Yeah. I'm torn, by the way.

Because for 8 years I wrote and talked this alignment being in September. Mhm. Somewhere in the fall. Cuz that was the date given to me by some people in the astrology, and then they come back right when I go to write my book and say, "Oh, we made a mistake. It said Easter." And I thought, well that sounds plausible because the lady's always coming around Easter. I I have this in saying experiences every year at Do you still having them? Yeah. That's amazing. Still speaks every year. And

you think it's the same the Virgin Mary, Hathor, Demeter, you think all of these I think it's the Sophia. Mhm. >> The wisdom, the Holy Spirit. >> So, that would be kind of the Gnostic version or something. Yeah. Yeah. >> That's that's who I think that this this being is. It was a spirit, and it was definitely holy in her presence, right? And so and and when she physically impacted me because the wind blew me backwards to the ground. It was

such a blast of wind that blew me down, and I started researching that. Mhm. And the the word is the wind. Right? And the word Holy Spirit is the breath of God. Mhm. But it was the wind that affected me, and the power from it this this cow came over me, but the wind pushed me back. What did she look like? Looked like the most beautiful 35, 40-year-old woman you've ever seen.

Mhm. She's glowing, and um typical Virgin Mary apparition type thing. Or And you know, this thing this this this spirit appears in every country. It appeared to the Native Americans in in the wild west back, you know, they called her the white buffalo calf lady. The Egyptians called her Hathor or an earlier before met and the birth mother. The the the creator. In Proverbs in the Bible,

chapter 8 and 9 talks about wisdom. It's the name of the chapters, and it talks about and she was created before the earth was created, before the beginning of time. Wow. So, who is she? I don't know. But that's my thought. What what was the feeling that came over you when you saw her, when you see her It's uh >> When I first saw her, it was it was very impactful because the the cow ran me

over, and so I had this extreme fright to start with. And then I land on my back, and I roll over to get up and run, and there's this beautiful woman. So, I went from extreme fear to oh my god, what is this in front of me? >> Is the cow running you over part of the whole thing? Is that >> That was part of the her coming at me. She came at me at night out of the as a wind. The wind hit me, and as I'm going backwards to the ground I see a translucent cow run over top of me, and

I can see stars up through the thing. I'm like, oh my god, and I and I was frightened so bad. I landed on my back, and I turned to get up and run, and there's this woman about from here to that camera 3 ft off the ground hovering, and she looked at me, and she said, "You know why I'm here." >> And I'll tell you why she said that 5 years had gone by, 2007 to 2012. I had been beaten down and broken by the community.

My children were falling apart. The schools, the teachers were calling them to the side, "Is your dad crazy? We hear about all this. Are you all right?" Somebody from there called social services on me, and I had to fight to be at home with my children. It was that bad. So, 5 years of that I walked out on Easter Saturday night, Easter of 2012. Sunday morning is Easter, right? And I shouted to the sky, "Thank you for saving me. Thank you for healing me,

but you've ruined my life. Now my children are affected, and not and I have caused them great harm, and and I'll never speak about this again." Even though I had the desire, they put this in me like the famous movie Close Encounters where you see he's making a mashed potato mountain on his in dirt, and he's throwing it in the window and bushes, and he's creating devil's tower, right? He didn't know what it was, but it was in his head. So, I was that guy. I had to tell

And the more I told it, the more trouble I got myself into. And what you're referencing with your family is Junior, your son, who had gone looking for you, also saw beings, was really shocked at what he experienced. It was the community that caused him to want to leave home. Really. Yeah. Yeah. He was 17 years old and my right hand. He was with me everywhere I went. We come home telling the world about it,

and now the whole community has come on us. And so, 5 years into it, I'm out telling the heavens I quit. I'll never talk about it again. And then she appears and says, "You know why I'm here. This is your burden you must bear. You have to tell what you know, and if you do, I will allow you to video record and film my presence and share it with others." The the lady said that. >> She told me that. >> And are you going to Well, let me tell

you, from 2007 to 2012 I had zero data. I was out every night with a camera trying to get pictures to save myself from the community, right? The more I tried, the less it would let me film it. It'd be hovering in the trees behind my I pull the camera out, and it would >> Yeah. Every time. So, I was angry about that. I'm trying to prove myself sane, and my child is now left home because the community has

has just been tough. So, um she's like, "You're not going to quit. I'm going to help you." So, from that point forward I started being able to film it and sharing it with anybody. And I've amassed and terabytes of data. Video, photo, audio. >> And um never a picture until 2012 when she came. Why do you think these guys from NASA are showing up at your door? We mentioned Tim Taylor earlier, he's a

NASA mission controller, but Hal Puthoff and Meyer also showed up originally. And I think you Ryan, your son mentioned kind of at the end of his life you realized that he was both CIA and NASA. >> Yeah. Yeah. And so, what do you think their interest in all of this is? and there are a lot more NASA guys. That was two of In fact, I had dinner with Hal's wife this weekend. She came to Chris Junior's wedding. Oh, wow.

Yeah, we love them. And but there are a lot of other NASA guys that I'm currently talking with. Mhm. Several. One tells me wherever I go, but they're all interested. They tell you wherever you go? They're they're with me. Really? Yeah, usually traveling with me, somebody associated with that. Yeah. What do you think they want? They all want to study it. They want to know, and they observe it with me. They I take them out, and we you know, we do a lot of work. Are they with you in Austin, Texas? Uh no, but they wanted to be.

>> I only have one night and my wife's friend traveled with me cuz she was at our house. Yeah, her kids are right down the street. But uh usually I go nowhere without somebody with me. Mhm. For a reason. Wow. Yeah. I've had some things that that um caused me to want to have somebody with me all the time. What happened that caused you to want to not leave you know, go anywhere

well, I've been threatened a few times by different ones and I was at the PSI games this year. Saga games. I call it PSI Saga games and um came out of a conference speaking and when I walked out the door this mad lady comes running up to me and tries to kidnap me. >> What? Yeah. Had something with drugs on it. Tried to get me in a van with no drive with no tags on it. Security had to come. They had to call the law on her. >> Yeah, so. >> Crazy. Crazy people.

Yeah, I I imagine you attract a lot of nutty people. >> What do you think the Vatican knows about all of this? If they had a picture of you and they were doing some ceremony about you and you were supposed to come, what do you think they think of you? Well, I can share a couple photos of you for that, but um I got three pictures of several quite a few paintings that they have in the Vatican that Diana sent me from there.

And Pope Francis uh she said to tell me that they know that they're angels. Mhm. That uh they don't mean to harm us, but their energy if they get excited can cause harm to a human. So, just be careful and try to ask it not to get too close to you. And these three photos or paintings show um orbs with angels in them. That's what they told me.

experiencers interacting with UFOs might just say, "Oh, that's like an electromagnetic burn." Or you like you see it in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. You see the the burn on his face. >> I got I got um Yeah, I got radiation burns, plasma radiation. That's what NASA told me it was. The uh So, you got you also got plasma radiation burns? No, I didn't, but I was warned a million times by Hal Puthoff and different ones at NASA kept calling me honestly over and over. Don't let them get too close. Don't get too close

to them. The Hal was telling me that they knew the voltage was like 33 million volts in one of these things and if it got near me, it would kill me dead. So, they they have like a scientific model of how these angels work at NASA. They know a lot more than we know than we think they do. They just don't share it, right? >> Well, so who is this like team like between CIA and NASA that knows a lot about angels? Well, I don't know that, but I know the the NRO is the ones that

have the keys to this thing. Really? And why do you think that? Cuz they have the keys to all the satellites and all eyes on the sky and they're the ones that every rocket when it goes up, right? They observe every aspect of that rocket. Mhm. For reasons, for mechanical reasons and for a surprise visit that happens pretty much every time they launch one. Do you think that rockets attract UFOs? That's what I'm saying. Every time they send

one up, it attracts them. And they'll come up and look at it if it has weapons on board. Does Tim Taylor know Elon Musk? Yeah. Do they work together? Um for sure, yeah. Had did Tim ever tell you that? Well, he mentioned his name, but he didn't say he worked for him, but he he controls all the launches. Controls all the launches? >> does. He's the launch guy. He's He's the dragon. His console is called dragon And he controls all of the launches out

of Cape Canaveral or >> He's the guy. He's the one. And I'll tell you what he does. Mhm. When they fire a rocket up, right? They have these big ground-based cameras like on a World War II um battleship where they sit on a gun and they could turn a handle and the gun would go around and you know, they could control this thing they're sitting on. Well, they have big binoculars on it like that and they can get on this thing and follow this rocket up. And they got it to about 50,000 ft, then

it gets blurry. So, at that point it's intercepted by a run out of Houston by a good friend of mine, which is National Reconnaissance works with Taylor. So, his crew's up there at 50,000

>> wanted to see this tree. So, he's at my house. Come I picked him up at the He goes to my daughter's homecoming game that night. She was a little homecoming princess in the 10th Now, she's a has a double master's from NYU. So, this been long time ago, right? We walk up to this tree and I having just a a good, you know, conversation and all of a sudden the one side of the tree is open where it burnt

from the inside. The tree caught fire on the inside and burnt a hole through the side of the tree. And when we walked up to it, he walks up and puts his head right up to look up in the tree and all of a sudden this snake comes out of the tree, a silver snake and it was perfectly I've never seen anything like it ever. It was silver as a silver automobile. It's perfect color. He jumps back and he grasps for air. Oh my god, just like that. And he looks at me.

And he was short with words and he said uh he said, "You know, my grandmother is full-blooded Choctaw Indian and I went to to um school on a minority grant. My grandma told me if I ever saw a silver snake, it's part of their their history, right? She said it would be a message from And he saw that and told me all about

it, but I watched his reaction and it it got the best of him when that snake come out of that tree. >> And you saw the snake? >> I was standing beside him, yeah. >> What do you think the message could have been from God? It It a message from him for him to understand this whole thing was from God somehow or another. things I wonder is if you read American Cosmic or talk to Diana Pasulka, it's almost like they visited the Vatican

He figured out a way in before she had gotten there. And then they were sort of celebrating him at the Vatican Observatory like Why would the Vatican Observatory know who a random NASA mission controller is? It makes me think he is not a random NASA mission controller. >> a random guy at all. He's um Let's just say he runs with the biggest. How so? Do you think he has a connection with the president? Yeah, absolutely. He

briefed he briefed Obama on me. That's where this come from. He briefed Obama on you? >> It came from him with a a dinner napkin from Camp David, Maryland. And you're sure of that? And did he tell you that he briefed No, he didn't tell me that, but I know that's what it means. Because of the Yeah. the uh letterhead. And where it came from. Bob Maguire who is I think former Intel and a friend of yours came on the show and he said I

that that cannot be fake. Right. >> That definitely came from Camp David. Yeah. It's a napkin and an envelope with a napkin partially obscuring obscuring the address that's on the envelope. I knew the address because it was the address of Chris Bledsoe. I knew the napkin because it was the presidential seal on a napkin from Camp David. There's only one way you can have that napkin cuz it's a crime to copy the presidential seal. There's only one

person that can get you to Camp David. And the picture was mailed to him by Tim Taylor. By Tim Taylor. And the only person I that story can't have been told to in that envelope was Barack Obama. Oh my god. The letter to me is ironclad proof that's Chris's story was taken all the way to Barack Obama. Via Tim Taylor.

You might think he was trying to throw you off the trail if he said I briefed the president was bragging or whatever. >> But he didn't. I found it out >> Right, I found it I didn't know what it meant, but I knew that it he told me he just returned from Camp David. And it was at Christmas when he got back to >> he he told he told you that? >> Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And he said I was at the dinner table with the president and handed me that uh napkin. Yeah. >> so he did tell you that? >> tell me he briefed him, but he did give me the napkin and the Whoa. >> and this. Yeah.

And you believe him? Yeah. I had no reason not to. Mhm. Have you ever caught him in a lie? No. Ever? Uh not wouldn't not that I can >> Everything he said has either come out to be true or you're waiting for >> Right, right. Wow. Have you independently verified Some of what he told me, yeah, 100%. >> Is there an example of that? Uh no, but it's just you know, it'd be it's just so hard to pinpoint any one

>> Sure. Or like I don't know, some of the things about how the NRO or NASA work together. Have you been able to verify >> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think that the Big Dipper or Ursa Major has anything to do with the UFO phenomena? You've said that you've seen UFOs come from that constellation specifically. I have a Yeah, but you know, I've learned since it it it that doesn't matter. Mhm. It's

wherever I look. Mhm. I can take you out at night and face one certain direction and only have a hole to look through that direction and it'll come from there. Mhm. We can turn in any direction and focus there and that's where it'll come from. So do do you think the Vatican and the president and whoever Tim Taylor, you know, the the hammer, do you think they're all coordinating in some way? This Archangel, the Vatican and the president or what do you think the connection is there? I don't have a

>> I'm just telling you what I was told, >> Yeah. So I've been told a lot of things, he told me about the movie The Adjustment Bureau and the story about the hammer. Yeah. Have you ever watched the Netflix show Dark by any chance? No. I have. Do you Do you think that you know, you mentioned uh Tim's grandmother being Native >> Yeah, so is he a time traveler? I know where he came from, right? As a young boy. Which is

Well, he told me the story about his upbringing, his Native American grandma. And so I would I'm just answering that question you asked earlier. Is he a time traveler? I don't know. I just know he told me and shared with me his childhood >> Did he say anything else about Thomas Townsend Brown? Not a lot other than we went there. We went to uh >> in the conversation about his his uh and that he was actively and I actually

have the manuscript saved on my phone he shared with me that he was working with her on. On on this book. >> On that book. >> Whatever happened to the book? I don't know, but I know I have the manuscript that they were writing. Oh, I I would love to read it. >> Whether they were publishing it or ended up publishing it, I I don't know if they did or not. >> What was it going to be about? About their father, her father and his work Tim's input confirming it all. And Tim

definitely knew Townsend Brown. Yeah, he knew his daughter, called her when I was there with him. Ah, this is crazy. This is so interesting. I want Are you still in touch with him? I haven't spoke to him. He sent word to me a couple years ago. I had to I I want to speak to him about Townsend Brown. He's a ghost, Tim. Yeah. Yeah, his his whole life I admire him because his real life is in medical. Mhm. Saving children. Mhm.

Cares more about the children and and the struggles they have and diseases and cancers and finding cures for that. I I'm I'm sort of like a part of me is like hesitant to even ask questions about him cuz I don't like honing in on any specific individual. >> Right. But when there's a specific individual who seems like they're embedded at the deepest levels of power structures that go as high as he does they're claiming things to you and Diana Pasulka that seem kind of otherworldly,

you know. Yeah. >> I just have to be fascinated. And it and both you and Diana have, you know, public, you know, followings. Right. And so I'm like, okay, like you have to know like some of this stuff's going to get out and you're going to instill curiosity. Right. You know, and I you know, I don't know if you know this, but I met him once for like 20 minutes and >> Oh, you did, huh? I'm like a FaceTime or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I met him. Yeah. Um it was so so stupid in retrospect because now I'd ask him so many other questions, but You were

tongue-tied at that moment, huh? Not only tongue-tied, I was cuz I was invested in this rocket company. And they were struggling to get off the launchpad and I normally I'd separate the woo-woo UFO stuff entirely from like, you know, that world. I don't you know, I try not to mix them at all. Right. But uh I was kind of desperate. Now I was like, okay. I I I did read this book American Cosmic and I know that like, you know, there's this guy and he claims to use consciousness to get the you know,

rockets off the pad. And so I'm like, if there's anything there, I know the guys I'm working with, you know, I'm invested in, they're not thinking about consciousness as any sort of factor component. So that was the impetus for me to talk to him and we talked about that for 20 The trippiest thing he said to me and I don't remember exactly how he said it, but it was clear this was the implication is he said for you to succeed in your rocket company, like you have to know what they want. You know. Yeah. And like Diana said it you know, called it the sponsors

and it's you know, but it's the the the beings or whatever. Now you know why he has a private office and then the only one with eyes on whatever comes up to that rocket. He's the only one with eyes on that. Well, he's the one that he's at uh Cape Canaveral in that room. What Where does the nickname the dragon come from? I don't know, but he has a tattoo on his arm of the dragon and when I was allowed to get on base Mhm. I had to get a tattoo right here just It was part of the mission. Really? And

it was a of a dragon. Yeah. Whoa. And then you have the the dragon capsule at you know, at SpaceX. I don't know if that's Do you think that's a coincidence or No, it's all part of it. Do you think so? Yeah. when you were at Cape Canaveral he was showing you around. Did he show you anything interesting? Yeah, a lot of stuff. Anything exciting or kind of beyond what you would expect just at a you know, a normal I was like a kid, right? Here of the the most

secure place on the planet. Cape The mission control, he told me it was more secure than the White House. Nothing is as that secure. >> And last time I talked about this, I got in trouble, right? Really? Well, yeah. One particular thing I mentioned on Danny Jones' podcast. >> Oh. What You got in trouble for saying >> Well, yeah. Well, it it got I I don't want to say it here because it got his got it it got the algorithm killed on

>> You said that uh the views were like, you know, it was like doing 50k a day. >> Oh, yes. >> And then it cuts off. Yeah, yeah. You speak to some rep at Google and they're like, "We don't know what the hell happened here. It doesn't make any sense given the click-through rate, average view duration, which should basically define the video's performance." He goes, "The one other time I've seen this is with Jesse's David Grusch >> Performance fell off a cliff. >> Yep. So. >> And then he said that he said that my video with Bledsoe and your video with Grusch, neither of them broke any YouTube rules or had any internal red

flags that he was able to see. Yep. And he goes, "Whenever this happens, which has happened one other time recently with David Grusch, Yep. >> it's basically a floor above me that I have no access to." Yep. >> "Some something above my head that I don't know what the hell's going on. So, what the hell is going on?" Yeah, Danny Jones said that Yeah. the video got totally like cut off, throttled. >> Right. And he was confused. And Danny, by the way, is not like a dogmatic UFO believer at all. >> Right. He goes back and forth on the whole thing a lot. And he's apparently

called this rep at Google, and Google said, "You know, the only time this has ever happened and it's the the floor above us and a video's totally gotten nuked was uh Jesse Michels' David Grusch interview." Yeah, right. [laughter] So. That happened with me and I put him in touch with my friend in Washington in the CIA and I I said, "Look, they they they just killed this." And he got to the bottom of it. But He did. Yeah. And he figured out that there was actual possible obstruction with >> Well, from what I heard was to something

I mentioned got the attention of the news and the news called NASA and NASA's like, "Cut. We don't want to talk about this." What? This is crazy. Well, it just I mean, Trump just designated NASA as a spy >> Well. And it's already it's it's you're already, you know, you're labeling a thing that's already been the case for, you know, decades. Right. But this is just confirmation of that. That's what? It's This is what >> happened with that video with Danny. It's still got uh what 1.2 or 3 million

>> That's still a ton of views. Do you Do you think that um NASA has other propulsion modalities? I think they've had it a long time. Really? I know they were working on it a long time ago cuz I was asked to to work on which way electrons move. Really? Yeah. And what does that mean? And what what is it when working on it? Back engineering machines. Reverse engineering UFOs. Yeah. Really? Yep.

Are the UFOs like alien reproduction vehicles that like hover and then go into space or are they high voltage chambers that are like portals like in the movie Contact where you end up in some other dimensional >> probably both of that exist. I don't know, but um And you think NASA's sitting on this stuff? I don't know that NASA is necessarily, but there are satellite groups that keep it under wraps. It is so far

buried. Do you think >> Tim, there were two generals at the Pentagon that knew everything. And which >> Two. He didn't tell me. Air Force generals. Air Force generals. >> So, when you go to NASA mission control, when you walk in there, it's a square with a long hallway in the very middle. And when you walk down this hallway, it's glass uh glass on both sides, right? Mhm. And you look to the right, all NASA scientists and launching, you know, at their consoles. And you look to

the left, it's exactly the same, but it's all Air Force people. So, they have dual redundancy, Air Force over here Mhm. and civilian on this side Mhm. running every launch. And Tim's in the middle of all of it. And once that rocket goes up, he disappears into this one little room Mhm. that has eyes on it the whole time. What was the most interesting thing you saw with your own eyes at Cape Canaveral? Uh probably um

that I there won't share. Um not on so here, but um I guess going into crew quarters was the greatest thing for me because when we got there, this building had been built like in the uh late '50s when they first started Mercury and launching to the moon, right? And only according to Tim, only 300 people had ever been in that building in all these years, only 300. And he said, "Only one president, no congressman,

anyone." And he said, "You know, don't go around sharing this because" Here I am sharing it. "Because they might get upset why they're not allowed in this place." And those 300 people would include the staff that run the place, the den mother that's been there. I met her, she'd been there 35 years. And she has a small group of people. >> The doctor that's owned that lives there with the mom, the dad, the children. So, those 300 people would be John Glenn and

and Armstrong and their family, right? So, their kids and their wives and all. So, very small group of people had been in there. And I got to tour the whole place and sit where the astronauts sat and have a to sit in the boardroom and go in the doctor's offices and sit where they put their their space suits on. I got to look through all that and handle it and Um it's amazing. >> But I was told

that when you leave from here, you'll never be the same. He said that every time that thing went up, when it came back down, something came with And was still there. What came with >> Well, whatever the spirit is that phenomenon, something intelligent Whoa. is there. So, like almost like a hitchhiker tagalong effect or something.

They would go up and then they'd come back down, but be they'd be hitched with some sort of >> Yep. spiritual thing. Yeah. Whoa. That's why they don't He told me that. That's why they don't let everybody in And do you Do you So, is your take cuz to me, there's something weird about the moon landing. I don't think it's necessarily fake like I, you know, not like full hoax or something, but there's something that feels very managed about our perception on it.

What do you think actually happened? That's a big one cuz I've learned some things since about that. I've seen some photos of the moon. And um some things I can't dare say. But what I saw makes me wonder, is it Is it real? Is it an illusion? Was it put there? Tim insinuated that it was it wasn't there by accident, that it was set there. That's all he would say. They're very

sly with their words, but I I I think that's the case, too. Yeah. It's tidal locked, so you never see the dark side. It's 1/400 the size of the sun, but 400 times closer to the Earth >> from the sun in this sort of yeah, perfect way. And the conventional story of how it was made makes no sense to me. The idea that there was some sort of proto-Earth and this Mars-like object hit Earth or whatever, like this massive object hit Earth, part of the Earth's mantle came

out and formed formed this perfect cylindrical moon. Right. Prima facie, you don't need to be an expert in this stuff to know that that's probably not the case, right? And then parts of it seem hollow. There seem to be caverns in it. They're, you know, they put seismometers on the moon if you believe the face value story of Apollo 11, even conventional like nobody can argue with this. They put up you know, seismometers on the moon and it ring like a bell. So, and then I think Gordon McDonald, who's Eisenhower's space advisor, said the moon would only make sense if it

were hollow or something like that. It's just a strange It's a strange object. It is strange and it affects our thoughts. You think it affects our thoughts? >> I absolutely it does. You have the sort of, you know, Jekyll and Hyde like >> lunacy, right? That word lunacy, lunatic, that's where it came from. >> That's right. >> go to the sheriff's department, the jails fill up on a full moon. Yeah, fair enough. Yeah. And maybe you do have, you know, obviously women's cycles affected by the by the moon. You know, the idea

that it doesn't affect I don't want to go full astrology necessarily, but it you know, the idea that it doesn't affect, you know, ecological processes or biological processes is that's wrong. So then, what what is the extent of that effect? I don't know. But Something I saw tends to make me think that uh that um it's an illusion or it's uh Mhm. It it is something

uh I just can't say without getting What do you think it is? You think it's something about our soul? >> What about the backside of it? What do you think? Do you think there's some aliens there or beings there? >> there's something illuminated back >> I don't know. Is it like the John Lear like soul catcher? No, I don't believe in all that, but man So what do what what do you think is illuminated on the backside of the moon? I don't know, but um

I have to leave that. If you were to give a high-level riddle or hint I don't know. I just think that the backside is nothing like the front side. Mhm. If you find photos of it, if they're real, it doesn't look anything like the front side. And from what I've seen, there is something behind it. Hidden back there. And and Tim seemed to think that it wasn't there by accident. Just the moon >> Exactly what he told me. It wasn't by

>> Mhm. Was it towed into place? That was one of the things he Wasn't towed into place? That was one of the conversations I Wow. Do you think Do you get the vibe that he has some metaphysical worldview that is more concrete? Cuz the average person, you talk to them about metaphysics, and if they speak in a self-assured way, they're probably full of Right. And they're either full of or

they're really epistemically humble. And they're like, "I don't know. I take these things metaphorically, and you know." So it's like one or the other. And then occasionally, occasionally, especially if you're a seeker like, you know, you are, I am, you meet somebody and it's like you have kind of a more concrete understanding of what's going on out there. >> Right. Right. Do Do you feel like he's one of those people? >> that way. You feel like that? >> Yeah. And you don't think he is sort of conning you in any way or >> No. Well, I thought that some of the things he said

flew in the face of what I believe then. Mhm. But now years later you know, I thought it's changed on this thing. And so some of the things he was telling me makes more sense today. Do you think there's a Native American connection? A lot of people, you know, I've interviewed Mario Woods on my show who uh you know, is native of Native American descent. And people say that, you know if you have Yeah, that that that ancestry, you might be able to

get in touch with this stuff a little more easily. Other people say that about RH-negative blood. Do you Do you think either of those things are true? I think there's a possibility. With the blood, I'm I'm not sure about that, but I do know that I was a book showed up to my house that was sent from some folks in the government, CIA. And said, "Read this." And it was the Myths and I I I I can't remember the whole title, but it

uh the kind of, you know, security establishment in the US has UFOs in in its possession, they're reverse engineering them? Well, they're big liars if they don't, cuz they've been saying it for years they have. >> beating that drum right now. >> They are big liars Same same >> have them. Same story for 50, 70 years now. We have this, we saw that, my friend saw it, I saw a letter, here's another letter. I saw I saw I saw. That's all you hear. But you never see.

Yeah, that's what's so strange. >> Never. Yeah. Difference in me, I'm sharing it. Mhm. You know, I tell you there's orbs there, and then we go out and we see them. Mhm. But I'm not labeling it and Do you feel like cuz I think on Trun Ryan's show, Diana Pasulka spoke about your experience almost as if you had been like messed with or something. Do you feel like you've been Messed with? >> Messed with or manipulated in any way or

I think the phenomena has a way of doing things to trick you. You know, you hear Jacques Vallee write about the trickster. Well, that's not a bad thing. I think it's like the Adjustment Bureau. Same thing. If If If Jesse, if you if you want to go this direction it might it might trick you to make you go in the opposite So it's kind of controlling your path. So um that would be

Yeah. My view of that. But you don't feel like um the intel world has tried to shade your perception of things in any way? >> I think they have. Okay. Yeah, they have from the beginning. They They tried to make me believe in flying saucers and little green men. >> Really? Yeah, and I kept telling them, "No, it wasn't like that." Interesting. It wasn't like that. >> But that So who who was trying to kind of implant those ideas? Hundreds of people within the government. I've met >> Really? And they all go back to that,

you know. It's You know, I got labeled a a religious fanatic because I said it was spiritual. I've been saying it was spiritual for 19 >> they were really adamant about, "Hey, let's spin this towards this, you know, kind of alien extraterrestrial thing." >> Yeah, constantly alien, alien, alien. What you're seeing is negative bad. Really? Yeah. That's pretty crazy. >> Yeah. That's not cool. No, it's not >> So how do you explain that? What's

happening there where you have these spooky people coming to your life telling you that what you saw was alien when you know it wasn't. And then you have somebody like Jim Semivan who's very high up at the CIA, seems to I assume knows a lot about a whole lot of national security things outside of the UFO issue. But the UFO issue he's gone very deep on for decades. >> Right. And he's being kind of an honest actor in telling you, you know, you experienced what you experienced. Do you Do you think he was, you know, honest with you?

>> Yeah, Jim. Yeah. Yeah. I You know, I have a deep care for Jim, and he does my family as well. And we've shared a lot of stuff. I know about his story and Debbie's, his And um So you think there's factions? Like how do you make sense of the fact that you have one half of intel world spinning your attempting to spin your story and like kind of manipulate you, and then you have another half that just seems kind of like good-hearted Well, it's kind of

It's kind of like this. There's a group of lower-level guys that have a mission to do. Mhm. Disinformation, push a certain narrative. you know, the people I'm meeting are heads of their departments. Not necessarily this low-level guy. I'm talking the head of the director of operations like Jim was at the CIA. He was James Bond. That's who he was. Or Director of operations. >> Yeah. Whoa. Jim was, yeah. What is that like ranking of the CIA?

>> the whole northern hemisphere. Whoa. Everybody answered to him. Yeah, that's who he is. Very powerful guy. >> And his friends, I've met a lot of them you know, the deputy director. And And when you talk to these guys in private, they pick your brain and you start learning more that um they're learning. They want to know. That That's That's what I've come to the conclusion of. You know, everybody's like, "Oh, it's a psyop, and they're trying to, you know, manipulate, blah

blah blah blah blah." And I I I've not been probably in as many of these rooms as you have, but I've been in some of them. I'm sure. And I'm They're like, "They're They're like, we're fans." And we're They're like trying to piece stuff together through I used to be so afraid. I would do certain interviews, I'd break certain stories, and I'd be like "Oh, I got too close to the truth. They're going to They're going to come after And then now I'm like, "Oh, they're probably learning alongside me and like using, you know, the stuff I'm learning and through open-source research like

for their own channel [laughter] or whatever." But for the most part, they're they're they're truly our people like us, and they want to know. But there's a program of guys that's involved in the UFO world keeping that going. But the Do you think Is there some cuz you met you opened the book talking about John Alexander. Right. John Alexander also seems to show when people paranormal things like the Hutchinson effect, you know, John Hutchinson,

Sort of, you know, metallic equipment seems to hover in like, you know, malfunction around him. He seems to have like all these electromagnetic anomalies emitting from his body. Um you, you know, other cases, John Alexander will kind of consistently show Um, I think he's briefed on that like I think he knew about Rendlesham before anybody else. >> Yeah, he did. 100% John is What's his deal? John has been Let's just say he's probably the number one researcher in the paranormal world

for the US government. Has been for many, many years. >> Yeah. His wife is works study in religion. Mhm. As a ps- part of this and he's been to 90 92 countries Mhm. doing um research and to everything from churches to ceremonies in Mongolia, the reindeer herders, you know, the reindeer monk. He they rode horses 100 miles and Do you think he has a pure agenda or do you think that He has an agenda to find

the truth and But he do- he does often he'll see these things and then he'll kind of semi debunk them. And I don't think he did in your case, but I think in other like uh you know, the Hutchinson thing he'll show up and he'll be like, well, it kind of works it sometimes, but it's you know Right. Like if you read his writing, it's often like it's not as magical as you think sort of thing. Like he kind of like you know Well, John's more in line of um

being the the truth of it or the alien thing as being the truth of it. He doesn't see it that way. He he's more about it's more it's too easy. It's far more complex than that. >> Mhm. This thing does uh it for example Mhm. In the 1800s, 1700s go back and read all the reports on UFOs. People were seeing I read a story of a a sailing ship with glowing sails flying over London.

And a anchor comes out and snags a chimney and breaks the top off of a >> A boat, a flying boat, right? So here's these flying ships uh sky ships they called them for many, many years. In the first report that I've heard of in America was Aurora, Texas. It was a sky ship that crashed into the wind tower, right? 1897. And they buried an alien there. You know where they buried him? Where? In my family, right beside my family cemetery.

>> Really? Yeah. That's weird. Yeah. That is really trippy. >> What? Yeah. So do you do you have other trippy things like that in your family history? Yeah, quite a bit of stuff. Tim was the one that started that research with me way back. And Diana, yeah. So Tim is sort of an heir in some ways to John Alexander where he's also doing a lot of this sort of paranormal research. Yeah. But what's so interesting to me is he's has a functional job at NASA, too. Yeah. Well, that's part of his job. Wow.

That's all. >> that space like our space travel program is somehow related to studying these paranormal things? How do you think it's related? >> you heard him talk about it when you were speaking about uh creating investing in a rocket company. It's up to them, right? I don't know. You know, I I I know the history of rocketry. You know, and I know Jack Parsons thought he was in touch with you know, other beings and literally saw like a what you could describe as a Nordic alien woman, you

know, while he was testing rockets uh you know, in California in the Mojave Desert. I know that Tsiolkovsky, the Russian equivalent, thought he was in touch with angelic beings. Hermann Oberth, you know, the the father of the German rocket rocket program. All of them thought that. Thought they were in angels, yeah. So but then I also know Elon Musk, you know, kind of dismisses the whole alien thing and Well, Hal Puthoff and I talked me and before I tell you that I'll get back to the flying ships, right?

wire. Now billion plus people has it implanted in their brain. And for the next 50 years, what do they see? >> Flying saucers. Where'd they go? Yeah, and then >> Where are they? Right? Then comes a triangle in the '80s or '90s. All of a sudden everybody's seeing triangles. Yes. Then I come along in '07 these big balls of fire come. Muffon's like, "Well, what were they?" I said, "I don't know. They weren't flying saucers. They were they were light. They were like orbs."

And so that kind of hung it and from 2000 to last 19 years it's been orbs. So our perception of something celestial and in some almost like other world plate platonic realm that we can't understand or comprehend is being sort of shaded by basically media by like our No. the memes that we have in our head. >> That's fascinating. And to anybody is it's such a cool conversation to have with you because I

think some people throw around the term like psyop like with you and stuff and I'm like the fact that you're saying all this >> is like so opposite the opposite of like somebody who's dogmatically like, you know proposing the kind of extraterrestrial hypothesis. It's like you're basically saying like we're in limited, you know, epistemological realm or whatever and we're seeing something that's unexplained and that's a humble claim. I don't think I'm not here to label it cuz I I would

be lying if I told you I knew. Yeah. >> All I can tell you is 19 years of patterns. Mhm. I can tell you that I get a lot of people to call me that want to tell me their story. I've covered my book empowers these people and then I get this little lady calls me one night and it's just for an example. >> And she's like she said I saw this ball of light go by my kitchen window. Can um

and I hear she said this. She said I she's 87. She said, "I hear tell you're the person that would know about these things." I said, "Well, yeah. Um I try to help you, you know, so tell me what happened." She said, "I was washing dishes and it came up to the window and it scared me and it went away." I said, "Well, what was going on with you right then?" She said, "I was washing dishes." I said, "No, what was your life like?" the same story for 19 years over and

over and over and over a thousand my husband died. Mhm. >> The week before. And it's always the same. People start seeing this stuff. I had a near death. Mhm. Um my daughter died, my mom died, my son died or something. Mhm. Horrible. I think It's always that way. It's almost like um I think about it them showing up at nuclear sites, which they seem to show up at. And if there was some

Archimedes lever point, point of most leverage to shift timelines on like a glo- global scale, it would be there. And then in somebody's life maybe you'd show up at peak highs and peak lows. And sort of the the you know peaks and the valleys or something. Right. And I wonder if that's the case. I wonder if Well, is Is that anecdotally your case? I mean, do do you think people even in in like kind of peak states also see them cuz that's that's been my anecdotal understanding or

>> Yeah, I think it's possible, right? But I do know that the majority of the people witnessing this Now it's different because it is coming. It's revealing itself and there's no psyop in that. It's going to reveal itself completely. and it is what it's doing is cracking people's consciousness just a little bit. Makes you think. You know, it may not convert that person, but it they're like, "Oh my god,

there is something out there." So it's expanding our consciousness. Do you think other people think that you are the Messiah? I've been asked to, yeah, but I don't see that. I'm just a poor guy that had uh has had a hard time. Yeah. And uh it's not been easy. It's been a burden more than anything and I'm just a messenger. I know that I can share this with people and after I do, then it's yours. You can

you can connect with it from then. So it's not like something that I have, but something that everybody has a right to. Mhm. understanding of metaphysics that's deeper than the average person's? Like is it is there some sort of thing that you can relay about how the world works? No, I'm still trying to figure that, but um and a nutshell, I know that we're not in

control. Mhm. That our thoughts are completely understood by something above us that knows everything about you. It knows your heart. It knows your intentions. And it will guide you or it will tear you down if you're going the wrong way. That's the trickster part of it. But is that bad? You know, it's intended for you to marry this person, not that one. It might do what it takes to get you to meet this

person. Mhm. So fascinating. >> Yeah. And it's your job to be receptive and to kind of ride the ride the wave or listen to the synchronicities. >> Yeah, that's what I do. I listen to the synchronicities, but my job is to share a truth that everyone's been told is not real. And I I I caught so much problem from the in 2007 when this happened.

Half my family, 2/3 of my family I quit speaking to. My own cousins and family. And it was because they wouldn't believe me or I was being accused of messing with the devil, right? And so they actively got hard on me and tried remove my children from me. That was early on, right after it happened. And so I kind of took offense to everyone. And I made a vow then I'm going to prove them all wrong. I'm going to prove the world wrong. That's what I said.

Made that that and I worked on it pretty hard for 19 years of revealing something that nobody says is real. And what that is I can't tell you with 100% certainty, but I can tell you 19 years of uh patterns and never no harm to me or anyone else that has experienced this. And I've shared it with thousands of people. Mhm. Do you think the the idea of disclosure is kind of a misnomer? It's the idea

that the government can disclose some sort of like metaphysical truth that they have this asymmetric understanding of. Yeah, I think we're in post-disclosure. Mhm. It is disclosure is not an announcement. They're never going to give you the secrets. You know, if they have a machine, you're not going to see it. And I wouldn't want them to because somebody else could get a hold of it and it could be terrible, right? So it's national >> Uh they're never going to give you that. So they're just going to give a talk all

the time. We have we've seen we have disclosure is a one-person-at-a-time Suddenly you see it's real. You saw an orb. Oh my god, what was it? I don't know what it was, but it wasn't an airplane and it stopped and it came up to me and it flashed me and it went away. Well, that absolutely changes >> world paradigm. It just just completely changes it and sets you on a different course then. So awakening or disclosure is for those

There's a lot of people that already that knows. So I don't think the government's going to ever announce anything. They're just going to keep telling you we have this and we saw that and make people get curious and start investigating. Mhm. What do you think people's relationship should be to your story? Because on the one hand you were cured of Crohn's disease and I know you've had some other physical challenges since then, but that's a really major thing that kind of you were

alleviated by and presumably linked to this kind of, you know, amazing event in in in January of of 2007. spontaneous healings and should they should they go for that or should they go for the like incremental kind of more deliberate thing? Like is that it it feels like catching catching lightning in a bottle. You know, like how can how can that how can that happen in a repeatable way unless Jesus is real or something and can heal

us. Well, I said earlier maybe we have our own power to heal ourselves. We just don't know it. And um Do you feel like you healed yourself in that instance or they healed you? >> they healed me. And I think that they will heal uh they can they can heal you. I've seen it too many times. I've seen it happen in Australia over the phone. Mhm. Long distance. That's it. And magic happens at that point. And I don't claim that it's me doing it. I'm just a

mediator guy. I just I just present our picture to them. Yeah. You know, it's all thought and intention. Our thoughts are very powerful and our intentions. I know they are. Yeah. They really are. Right. And they uh ev- everything was once a thought and uh I think thoughts have a much greater effect on reality than just uh thought converts to action which produces this mechanical sort of, you know, pinball

machine which ends up doing a thing. There's clearly something else going on that I think will be proven out by science. I think you're right there. Do you think that um there's a space program involving consciousness that's deeper than cuz you think about, you know, there's this, you know, 17th century Swedish mystic Emanuel Swedenborg and he described you know, going up into the cosmos and seeing all these, you know, stars and planets and you've had out-of-body

experiences and you've been to the Monroe Institute. If I was forming some, you know, sleeper cell space program that might be able to traverse farther than just NASA nuts and bolts craft. >> Right. If you believe remote viewing is a real modality, you have to believe some sort of astral space travel is also >> It is real. So do you think there's some sort of vital program in the government that involves consciousness-based space

I think they've attempted that and still are trying to. They have to have. >> Yeah. And you even watch Carl Sagan's Contact and it's like that's kind of what you're touching on. >> Yeah. Or you you know, Christopher Nolan who like you read you watch Interstellar then you read the physics of Interstellar by Kip Thorne and it's like if anybody was kind of dripped some interesting info, Right. >> it probably would have been, you know, Nolan. Right. And it's just so fast. It's like this fifth-dimensional space

that you know, where you can where you can travel kind of maybe between timelines and then when you die you're able to, you know, traverse that and it's sort of hard to talk about a lot of these things, but That's a big one, you know. I I believe when we die that based on photo evidence I have you may have some of that that I shared with Anna. Mhm. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We Yeah, we In fact, it's kind of come out on our pod where she shows some really interesting photos. >> Well, you see photos with people in

them. Mhm. Or children or animals. Where did I get that? How did I get those? And this was right after the lady came. And at that time I didn't have a video camera. I had a cell phone with the flip phone, right? But I went out and bought a little pocket camera, little Instamatic. And I started taking just every night. I I wasn't able to get anything before, from that point forward I did. And it's like my dog died. I wrote about this in

the book. I was with Tim at Cape Canaveral for a week. >> And some guys from the NRO we were meeting and had a launch and I'd been there all week and it was Saturday. The launch finally went off Saturday. Delayed all week. My wife knew I was coming home at Sunday morning or Sunday night. I was going to leave after the launch Saturday night, get up Sunday morning, drive home. So at 4:00 it was over. I said, "Tim, I'm

going to Fayetteville." So I got in my car and I took off. Didn't tell anybody, drove all night long. All night. >> Pulled over to rest areas, 13 hours, right, from my house to there. Pulled over and took a nap. 8:30 Sunday morning I drove in the yard. When I drove in the yard, I knew that my Labrador was dead. how I knew it, but I knew it. Just came

right into my mind. I saw it all. I felt My kids and family had buried her in the backyard 3 days before. Never told me cuz they didn't want me upset, right? It was like my child, this 90-lb Labrador female named Nellie. I opened the front door and walked in. My wife's asleep at the front door on the in the living room on the couch. The house full of kids. They'd been up all weekend. They had invited all their friends. So mom kind of was staying near the front where all the bedrooms were,

where our little girl had She's the only girl, right? So mom's doing she's doing her patrol. Keep any boys away from her. That's what mom said. So I walk in the door and I open it. She looks up at me. I said, "What happened to my dog?" Her eyes got big. She said, "Oh my god, how did you know?" I said, "Well, I felt She said, "Well, she ran out in the road and got run over by a car and we buried her in the backyard." So I took I thought about it all day.

And that night I thought she don't know she's dead. That's how I knew it. Cuz when I turned off the road right where she was killed, it just kind of felt her. Saw her in my thoughts. >> So, I took a little white candle. I went out to her grave and I lit it. And I told her, I said, you I'll be with you again. Just go to the light. And she comes up out of her grave in a little ball of light and I took that And that's how I got that. Wow. That's amazing. >> Yeah, and you should have a copy of it.

I would love to see that. Yeah. And we could put that up. So, what does that tell you? You know? What does that tell you? And I've got people, lots of people and children. In fact, I have a child, my wife and I lost a child. We had four, but we lost a child and I was out thinking about him and um this lonely orb there it comes.

was a child. Yeah. In the orb? >> In the orb. And this is a my screenshot. My Wow. >> I'll show you. >> That's a photo of a child in the orb. It's a ball of light. That's a real photo. That is amazing. So, what does that tell you? I believe that when I think that we're in a simulation or we're in this

that we experience time because of our body. Mhm. >> But beyond the body, there is no time. And I think when we die that we go back to that eternal place, which is in church they tell you it's somewhere way far away, but I think it's just around us. Well, there's time is created by the mind and the body and time is the most used noun in the English language, but nobody knows how to define it without respect to the movement of bodies or things.

>> Right. It's always something defined relative to something else. So, if if if you're doing that over and over again, then it has to be this soup that you're swimming in where you can't get out of >> You're like in in water and you don't you know, it's like this David Foster Wallace speech where he goes, this is water, you know, it's like you're you're you're a fish in water. You have no idea what you're in. We're in this stream of There's no way out of it. There's no way to talk about it and really a you know. There's no words for it. >> There's no words for it. That photo is

>> this to like a a NASA photo documentation person? >> Yeah, I don't care. A lot of them have already seen it. Okay. I'll tell you, I was at just just to tell you how it is with NASA. I was at I was in Capitol Hill Club Mhm. when the when the when the hearing that the recent hearing that happened, right? in fact, it was Anna Brey and a bunch of those friends of hers and um without using names and um

we were having orders with there at Burleson and Anna Lena, right? And afterwards, we went out and did a sky watch on the the um Library of Congress, right? We were up on the platform and suddenly a sort of appears and for 45 minutes it did figure eights over the Capitol and the White House. So, Burleson saw it and Anna >> No, Burleson wasn't there. He'd gone home, but Anna was there. >> Anna was there. And a whole group of other people, Eric Zeidac from uh PG&E

Power Mhm. um Donna Roberts from the International Space Station. She was standing next to Others I can't say their name. But they've come out publicly, this Uh excuse me, Tracy McGill. She's a an analyst for the DOA DOD, I think. Wow. >> So, they all got to experience it. While we were having dinner you're talking about NASA people. Mhm.

A sky walks up and he's he gives me a big hug. He said, Chris, I'm a huge fan. He introduced me to his son. We'd never met, right? But he was one of the highest ranking guys at NASA. He walks up and hugs me and says, I'm a huge fan of yours. NASA. It's yeah. So >> So, why is NASA publicly It's their policy. They're gaslighting the world. >> the people there are just like me and you. It's so funny cuz it's like you see

that them publicly and it's like they're doing this thing on 3i Atlas and it's like the photo is the resolution of it's like you're looking at a lamp post you know, on on on on a it's like a street light or something. Like it's horrible. And amateur astronomers are getting better stuff. >> And then privately they're going to you saying we're we're big fans. >> Yeah. So interesting. Ain't that crazy? It is crazy. It's a little frustrating. It's like, can you close can you split the close the gap a little bit between your public and your private, you know,

perception? One thing Hal told me how popular my We were we loved him. My children loved Hal. Because he became you know, my dad died in 2013 and he Hal came in 2008 and He just showed up at your door, right? >> Yeah, knocked on the door in 2008, right? And so, he'd come three or four times a year and stay a week at the And his biggest thing was my children. He would they would bring school friends over and he'd have a big

you know, he loved kids. So, he'd pull out mastodon teeth and tech tights and it was just a big party of science and he loved that, but Hal told me he died in 2019. He died in 2019. He was coming to our house for Thanksgiving, he and Katie. >> And he fell and hit his head and went in a coma and never woke up. Right? But he told me right before he died, he said, Chris, I want to tell you one thing.

He said, I've wondered for many years. He said, what this phenomenon is. Oh, I know all about it, he said. You know, I've seen it all. He said, but we've always been on the fence of what it is we're dealing with. But he said, when I I know now. To me it's he believed it was angelic. Mhm. They were always on the fence of what it is. he observed it with me a lot and saw its

nature and how it would react to certain words and certain prayer. Mhm. And was he religious? he wasn't religious at all, but he was toward the end of his life, he became yeah, very open in prayer and stuff. That'll make you religious. Tim Taylor had a conversion right at the Vatican where he converted to Catholicism. >> It's fascinating. So, that's where the stink takes you. It takes you down that that path. If you

interact with it, it will. There's an apocryphal quote that's often attributed to Werner Heisenberg. And you know, he was this amazing physicist, but he was also in charge of the German nuclear program under the Nazis. But but also a much deeper philosophical guy and he regretted his kind of role in that stuff. And he says the first sip of the bottle, you know, of science makes you an atheist, but when you get to the bottom of you find God at the bottom whatever. >> That's where Hal was at the end. Mhm.

>> Yeah. That's what it sounds like. >> Yeah, exactly what it was. That photo you showed me with the child in the orb that looks exactly like in 2001 Space Odyssey at the end of the movie where Bowman he's you know going up on the ship and then he he ends up I don't know what happens, but there's this it's this weird bizarre little and you see the the monolith and then

all of a sudden it cuts to this baby hovering over the earth in this like orb capsule thing. >> Yeah, crazy, right? >> And I watched I remember watching that. It's one of those things where I'm like I am too unenlightened and dumb to know what this means, but I know it means something. And that's what a lot of the UFO topic is. It's like the sound of the one hand clapping, the Zen cone. You're like and it just makes you want to go further. Right. >> like you see something you're like you don't quite know what it means, but you're like that there's something about

that. There's saying this it's a And if anybody knew kind of you know, some deeper truths about reality. Like I do think Arthur C. Clarke, Stanley Kubrick, guys like that were tapped into something deeper. And so, that photo tripped me out cuz I'm like, what did what did they know and what you know, is that photo you know, somehow lining up with what they knew? I think they probably knew a lot more than they had to. And the government knows a lot more, but this everybody that's anybody in the ranks

wants to see this stuff. They want to know about it. Yeah, I believe it. Who wouldn't? Yeah. Does the stuff you know about the dark side of the moon point towards sort of a >> Yeah. It does. Well, that then you get into these things around like why why can't we have You can't say that official If you're in some like official government position, you can't you cannot say like I would I I want as much disclosure as as humanly possible, but like if you're Trump that might be tough. That

might be a tough one. >> That's right. You go up there on the podium, you go we're in a simulated [laughter] universe. Yeah, right. You're you're you're everything is you're in a karmic whirlpool where you get stuck. You experience the same thing over and over again, but with a different veneer. Time is actually an illusion. And that veneer is just the changing of memes that are implanted in your head by some alien that Like if you start to go deeper into that That's exactly Where does that lead? Where does that lead? That leads to a very, you know, and I I I think we

might be headed there anyways. I don't think we need authority figures necessarily to say these things. I'd say we're going to I think what's going to happen is that basically the way I see this is consciousness is just one big unified field, right? It's all one. Mhm. And everything that exists is in that one. Mhm. From the ghosts to the aliens or to the angels and to us. And I think we're in the process of rolling humanity's rolling into Mhm.

that next dimension. In other words, it'll be a world of where we're all in it, where we see it more and it's part of our reality. It's shifting. It's so fascinating. It's so interesting. So fun to talk to you cuz I I think a lot of people have said, "Oh, like you it's like you're too open-minded or something." is the you know, the the critique or something. And I have a lot of critiques hurled at me, so don't take that personally. But uh I I I think so. I think if you believe

in the parapsychology stuff, which I do, that there's some sort of mind-matter >> Then I think there's a correlation openness and your effect on the material world or like your what you perceive as well. Right. And so I think there will be at times errors made due to that openness because you're sifting in in this area that is so uncharted. >> Exactly. But

you're also going to like, you know, come upon like really core deep truths. And I don't know if you can have one without the other. And so you you know what I mean? >> Yeah, 100%. >> Like like you know, I'm sure I've explored all sorts of like crazy stuff, but but in reality I think it it you know, my I think my worldview is actually sometimes crazier than I can even communicate via the show. And it's really about catching people up you know, epistemically. And like taking people through this like

rigorous like let's start with the foundation. Like that photo is real. It's been verified. You know, like you need to do that. Because we're in this materialist reductionist scientific >> Right. Um but and and and you'll make a lot of you know, errors along the way, but yeah, it's this really kind of hard thing because you you make one error and you get these kind of debunker skeptic types and they'll just hang on that one error for the whole and it's like they're seeing what they want to see, you know. >> One of the thing people give these

debunkers and skeptics too much power. Yeah. I boy, I don't even pay them attention. Yeah. To me they're just uninformed. Well, I think the thing that deflates them too is like I I'll admit like I've gotten a whole a ton of stuff wrong. Like and I hope I hope you would admit that too, yeah. >> Yeah, I I have. I changed, you know, we learned. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. >> Yeah, and as long as you can adapt with new information that comes in, you know, this is all it's it's it's really new

territory, so >> Well, there's there's no book. No, no. There's no there's no vocabulary for this. None. Mhm. It's all invisible and we have to create a vocabulary for it and we got to put a story to it, right? As humans do that. So you're constantly adjusting that as you go and pulling all the information together and down the road you would think well, what you thought before is correct, you know, so it could be

So I'll leave an open mind to it. I try not to label it. But I will go so far as to say uh that it's been benevolent and I've seen healings from it and I know how it answers when I say certain words. I it gets excited. Which words? The lady. Really? So you got to say The lady. The lady. Interesting. Yep. When you start talking about her and I can do this. I could take a group of people

outside at night. I've done it over and over and over. Take a mic if we got a big enough group. It's it's pretty it's gotten pretty simple because and I shouldn't say it's simple as it's complex, but still it's happened so much that is uh it's it's pretty crazy. Do you think there are pockets air pockets of consensus reality? And what I mean by that is like Do you think you know the Mandela

>> Yeah. So this idea that you know, um a lot of people in the 90s thought that Mandela died in prison, which he obviously didn't, you know. Do you think that reality might work more like that than we think? And so certain mystical experiences happen and the people with eyes to see and ears to hear experience it and then other people walk away and they're like, "Yeah, I don't know if there was a thing that happened or whatever." or they're like, "We'll superimpose some prosaic explanation upon the thing." And reality

itself is far more fractured, malleable, and in the eye of the beholder than one would think. >> it's changing. It's constantly changing like the Mandela effect you you talked about. One thing that surprised me is my wife and I've been married 43 years, right? So our honeymoon was in New York City. We'd never been there either one of us. We had a plan. We wanted to see see the train station, Grand Central Station, right? So we go to Grand Central Station

and we get photos and videos and we took a helicopter ride. We did all kind of to experience New York. >> And so >> I'm looking at my old photos of Grand Central Station. Right? We Google it now. It's not called that. It's called Grand Central Terminal and it says it's never been called that. But yet I got photos of Grand Central Station written on the thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you see it now it says Grand Central Terminal. What's that

Well, they you know, it's the the the Flintstones, the Berenstain Berenstain Bears. All these things where people swear that you know, it was like a one way and then you you look at the record and it it actually looks like there's another way. And um you know, that it is this fan really amazing phenomenon. And then you get into deeper studies like there's this neuroscientist Wilder And you realize that you there is no way of distinguishing between false memories

and true memories. And he shows this in with the ability to implant false memories into mice and stuff. And then you get if there if there are these beings and any thoughts can be sort of implanted, you get into really weird ontological territory where the past and even Schrödinger himself would say a particle is measured in the present, you know, it might change its past. Right. And you get into retrocausality in quantum mechanics. There's obviously spooky action at at a distance, but there's also spooky action across time. Right.

>> It seems like um if you have two entangled photons and two double slit experiments run with those you know, entangled photons. Seems like photon B that you're doing the experiment with two days in the future if you measure that and you don't measure the first one, the measurement of the one in the future is affecting the one of the measurement in the past. >> There's a great book called biocentrism that this guy Robert Lanza writes about this stuff. And so you get into really trippy territory where the past becomes the present is this

constricted present and but it's like an hourglass where you get have probable futures and probable pasts. Right. And the present is this measurement sensor that is single line of code updating the past and maybe updating the future at the same time. >> Right. And it's this very strange sort of model, but it you you there's no real way to argue against that other than physical artifacts. So if you have physical artifacts surrounding an event happening, you can argue say this is evidence that this happened this way or this happened another way. If you have conflicting physical

artifacts where you don't have physical artifacts, it's it's totally one word against the other word where you get into like numbers of people who believe one thing or numbers of people that believe in other thing, but we have no idea how reality works. >> We have no idea. >> We have we have a very limited we are measurement sensors and so you this idea that science is some ontological statement of truth. Like no, we're it's the map. It's not the >> Exactly. It's just you know, we see like

very limited scopes of reality. Right. And time is the weirdest thing of all. Yeah. That that uh has messed with me ever since I went there and saw that and now everything I dig up it says it was never called that. Yeah, Grand Central yeah. That's funny as you say Grand Central Station. I was like, "Oh, of course Grand Central Station." But Google Google it now though it's it's not there. Grand Central Terminal. It doesn't even sound as good. Yeah, it's it's always been named that according to this. Yeah. So I don't know what that

means, but it was really it really opened my eyes to how weird this world we live in really is. Yeah. How how do you juggle you know, a lot of these concepts might seem crazy to the average person. How do you juggle just facing you know, relationships issues things in your own life versus these kind of deeper celestial metaphysical truths. Those two things seem kind of hard to

hard to juggle. I was talking to a friend yesterday and he he has all these teachers, you know, kind of in the Eastern tradition. He's kind of his own mystic in a sense. And I think I can say this actually. His name is Duncan Trussell and he's a you know, I I actually just met him. He's an amazing comedian but I felt a kinship with him. And he's he talked he said his teachers all said that and these are like Eastern, you know, kind of Buddhists say that, you know, they know that the celestial realm exists but they ignore it because what we need to do is here on

Earth. We have these cuz there's kind of karmic path laid out in front of you. So I'm sure a lot of people have this sort of escapist orientation towards this this subject where they say, "Oh, I will will take me up on the craft, you know." So how do you reconcile those two I don't. I mean it's like it's just it's mind-bending the whole thing. I'm still grappling with with that you know, to this very day and I focus

right now my main focus is on the Rosetta Stone. Really? Why is your focus on the Rosetta Stone? Because I believe that I can find I think I can get there. I think I know it's talking. I know it is. I know it's talking multiple ways. Not just telepathically cuz that's hard to to prove or explain but I'm sure it's talking through frequency. Mhm. Through the light pulses of light.

Um with the right sensors and even some sort of Morse code or something. Multiple ways it's trying to communicate. I've seen it. I know it and I think one day we'll get there. Do you think the Rosetta Stone is trying to communicate with you? I think that is trying to talk to us and to find that Rosetta Stone, you know, that's just Rosetta's you're saying >> the language. I want to find the language of this. Of the the beings.

>> Yeah, and it's he's he's putting it out right now. It's talking. We just got to study it and I'm working on a way to do that. Do you think their language is discoveries? Like the discoveries we make? Yeah, what do you think the language is? Do you think it's a literal symbols and hieroglyphics? Cuz people say on the crafts that you know, they see these sort of hieroglyphics. Yeah, I've heard biblical texts and all of them too. Mhm. And you think we'll be able to decode this? I think we can get actual

real-time communication. Through the light and through sensors if we can gather enough data. How would we do this? Put it in a quantum AI computer. Mhm. And there's two of them that I could probably get access to. So you're working on this? I'm working on it, yeah. >> Have you decoded anything yet? Not well, we're working on it. That's all I can >> sounds like you have decoded a little >> some, yeah. Anything you can give us? Enough to get me going full-time. I'm

saying anything you can give us as far as hints as to what you decoded. >> Well, I just said I know it's there and and I think we'll get there in the next four or five years, maybe. Maybe longer. Do do you think there's something special about the pyramids that we'll soon or something? Cuz I mean one of your experiences was around the pyramids, obviously Hathor Well, I'm hearing that next year that uh there's something might be revealed from

there. What will it be? Well, would that getting ahead of what I was told this week. I've been invited to go down there and uh be involved in something that is going to release a something that was Interesting. And what >> something under the pyramids? Possibly. Like a like a little energy grid thing? >> I don't they didn't tell me that. Okay. >> They just invited me to be a part and [clears throat and snorts] the Egyptian Antiquities authorities are part of it.

>> Mhm. Fascinating. Well, I just interviewed the guy that did the synthetic aperture radar Doppler tomography scans of the structure under the Khafre chamber of the Giza pyramid and >> say that's what it is. I can just say I got a call from the right people that Okay. wants me to be a part next year. Well, that's exciting. Yeah. Very interesting. >> So I think something's coming from there that's going to be really interesting. Wow. Like changing thought-changing. Wow. Yeah. Danny Jones

it was funny. Danny Jones I think came into the your interview with him maybe a little skeptical but then he said he saw an orb with you outside of a diner or >> Well, he called me. He's like, "I want you on my show." I'm like, "Danny, I'd love to be on your show but you got to do something for me. Um I want to come a day or two early and I want to make you a believer not a >> Mhm. Cuz our interview will go differently if you're a believer." And he said, "Okay, okay." So we flew down and my daughter and I and uh wife

and we had dinner there in Clearwater. We drove to Indian Rocks Beach out on the beach and he had his assistant with him with a camera and >> I said, "Well, let's watch out of the ocean." Cuz I can get it I it it appears up out of the ocean when I ask it. Just like out of the sky it comes up out of the sea. And suddenly here it came. Two of them. And he filmed it. We all filmed it and See freaking out? Wow. Yeah. Uh we did that last week

in in California with some pretty amazing people. >> Wow. He also Danny said he I think he cut a small part of your interview where you talked about a neuralizer like some like machine that erased your memory after seeing something. Yeah, I had to not talk about that. >> You're not supposed to talk about that. But there is something like that that you experienced? >> I saw the patents on it. Really? So I mean that's freaky if the government has some something that could do that. Well, let's just say they can transmit chemicals through radio waves.

Can do you think they can transmit thoughts through radio waves? Yeah. That's kind of creepy. Well, then it then I then I get into all sorts of weird territory like what you know, what is the whole UFO phenomenon some paranormal plague from the thought transmission? What what if you were to see this alien appeared right here and you saw it and you weren't supposed to? Mhm. What if it could shoot you with something that would erase your thoughts? Then you never >> So you think they can do they have the

aliens can do that or the the beings can do that? You do. Why why are you high conviction in that? Seems like something where it inherently if they can >> Well, I kind of learned some stuff on that and I saw the patents on it. Wow. Yeah. And you think they're real patents? Well, it was the US Patent Office talking about it. It's kind of crazy. It's put away. It's hidden away. It's stuffed away somewhere that yeah, dangerous technology. Mhm.

So they could shoot you with a chemical drugs or anything from 100 yards. There's some Think about A few people have come on my show saying things like that. I just I I never know what to make of it cuz I'm like it's just Just trust me. >> want to believe I want that to not be >> from our original conversations. Mhm. So with like Hal Puthoff or with Tim Taylor? >> Yeah. Okay. Very interesting.

I can tell you the world is a weird place. I mean just the fact that you went to Zanesville, Ohio. Did you learn anything else about Townsend Brown while you were out there? I never knew who he was until um I got to Zanesville with Tim and then he began to unfold who he was and how he was working with his daughter to finish a book about her father and I learned the whole story of as much as he would tell me about his having

visitors come and land. Did Tim Taylor believe that Townsend Brown made real anti-gravity breakthroughs as a scientist? >> I can't tell you he believed that or not but he felt it strong enough that he was Yeah, I think he I'm speculating. Sure. Yeah. >> Have you heard other stories of experiencers being shown a piece of metal and basically evaluated to you know, to see how they react to the metal? Yeah, he

told me there were only he'd only ever seen two other reactions. >> Did he mention who reacted to the metal? >> He said but it was nothing like what I saw here. Yeah. Well, you know, there's a story of Wernher von Braun showing Uri Geller a piece of metal and he says it's that's not from here. Wernher von Braun takes me into his personal office. There is a safe in the office. He opens the safe. I see a piece of metal. I've never seen such a color. Pulls it out. It's not heavy. Says, "Uri, touch this.

Tell me what you feel now." I put my hand on it and I say, "Wernher, this is not from here." He says, "You're right. This is a piece of a UFO that crashed on our planet. You know, I'm mind-blown because as a child I used to sneak into movie theaters in Tel Aviv to see films on extraterrestrial life. And this is coming from the mouth of Wernher von Braun. You're me. Exactly. I saw some things about this metal. Um In fact, I had a lot of photos of it. I had to delete the classified, right?

But I've seen some of it in real time on electron microscope and what I saw, there were different types and but it was moving. The one piece, I have a picture where it looks like a universe swirling around and around with all the galaxies and stuff inside. That's what the metal the piece from Zanesville cut that little sliver, that's what it looked Actually [clears throat] moving. This other piece I saw was red.

It appeared red. But it were meant thousands of little blocks, little square blocks and they moving and stacking themselves. >> They were moving in the material. >> replicating or something. >> What? They were moving in the material. >> Yeah, this material is like living. And this is from Zanesville or Well, it was a piece I saw. I assume it was from Zanesville. The piece not the red. I don't where that came from, but the green. I'll show you the green. What?

Yeah. I'll show you the I don't have the video up, but I have a snapshot of it. I want to see that. >> show it to you. That is wild. Yeah. >> Wow. Moving like a universe swirling around and And the the um I was told had 51 elements in it and the most classified most

me about 15 elements. Humans could only figure out how to make 15 elements blend. But this had 51. One of the elements was human DNA. And he's like, "How did that get in there? And plutonium. Who puts plutonium in Wait, plutonium human DNA was in this metal? Yep. And >> And plutonium? Yep. And he's like, "How did they put human DNA in metal?" And then they figured out

in zero gravity how to to bond ceramic to metal and then they were able to put human DNA into the And now your hip joints and all that, they don't fail anymore. It's all in our medical devices. Nobody realizes it. That's NASA's Cuz my understanding is most manufacturing in space initiatives haven't succeeded. Like there's a company called Made in Space and it was always this kind of academic project and it never quite got

off the ground, but you could you could in zero G do all sorts of things that you can't on the ground. So, but you're you're saying there might be some secret stuff going on. >> Oh, for sure. Interesting. Mhm. Absolutely. But they were able to bond ceramic to the metal and human DNA into the ceramic. That's but they couldn't do it. Whoever did it, however it was done, we can't duplicate

Well, Chris, this is a blast, man. I love speaking to you and I think we could we could go on all day, but I there's so many threads I feel like I need to follow up on just from this conversation alone. So, we'll have to run it back and maybe I can come to Fayetteville and >> I would love for you to. That'd be a blast, man. I appreciate it. >> In fact, um maybe we get you to the coast like on the beach. Yeah. For one couple three nights and we'll get a group there and blow your mind. That sounds amazing, man. Count me in. Absolutely. Thank you

for coming to Austin, Texas on such short notice and you know, I know you travel a ton and so just coming out here for a day it really means a lot to me. Well, believe it or not in the last 3 weeks, I left Fayetteville, North I went to Orange County. That was Sammy and a group of guys and then went up to Hollywood. Met Margot Robbie and some other people. Left there, went back to North Carolina, dropped my wife off, flew back to New York, met some people there, took a

train down to DC. Uh met a whole group of met Anna and some others there. Then came home one day and I'm back here. So, it's been just burning the road up for 3 or 4 weeks and Wow. So, I called you last night. I was so exhausted. I'm like, "I'm tired. I'm beat." Jesse's so Or I'd have been here last night with you guys, you know, going to dinner sky watching or something. >> Yeah, no no worries. This was this is really fun and yeah, we'll we'll do it again and I'll come your way next time

and that's a crazy schedule uh for somebody who's already gone through all the stuff that you've gone through. So, It don't end here. It goes for the next 18 days. I'm back to New York to Pennsylvania, to DC and then to Wilmington for the World Forum and yeah, I want to make sure I plug the World Forum. >> Okay. What is that? >> It's um it was created by Mikhail Gorbachev back in the '90s. In '95 to 2000, it was a

event that ended up in New York City when they dropped the ball. Mhm. Bono was there, U2. They did the opening. But it was uh the the leaders of the world basically all came together to talk about the Y2K cuz they thought the world was in trouble, right? We had to have a And so [snorts] now for the next 5 years this year until 2030

on the 14th uh the 15th, 16th and 17th we're going to have a group down on the beach at Wrightsville. >> Um about 40 of us doing a sky watch and we're going to broadcast it through the World Forum. Cool. >> Through the world. >> Yeah. Epic. All right, we'll go check that out. Buy UFO of God and um yeah, keep keep checking out cool stuff that Chris does and I really appreciate you being here, man. >> Thank you, Jesse, for having me. It's been too long, right?

>> way too long. Long time coming. But you know what? Things happen in their time and I think there is the questions and the conversation we had this time around is going to be you know, it's much better than maybe what would have been a year and a half ago. >> Absolutely. I've learned a lot since then, you know. I've learned that I don't know anything, right? Same with me, man. I deeper I get, the more I'm confused. >> Yeah, that's what I say it all the time. The more I learn, the less I know, right? Well, that's that's literally true because if you think of your knowledge base as say it's like a

the sphere grows and then the the questions that are the space around the sphere. Right. So, the questions are going to grow at an exponent of the sphere growing. Right. And so, you the more you know, the more you know you don't know. >> Right. And so, yeah, I think the most knowledgeable people I know are the most epistemically humble and they're like, "I don't know." You know, cuz it just gets more and more confusing. >> Yeah, it does. Like I say, there's no language for this, so No. Each step, you

got to come up with something different, you know. >> Yes, but it's like if you if you're getting if you're going into kind of higher dimensional spaces or like where there's more variables or more you do just have to have uh a better sensor. Like uh you know, you need to you know, you need to be able to audit yourself better. Exactly. So, as long as you can do that I learned that a long time ago. Mhm. You know, just admit you don't know. Mhm. You know, don't [clears throat] label this thing

>> and I try not to. And because I can't tell you 100% certain anything. None of us can. Nobody can. >> Mhm. I can tell you it's it's it's magical. It's been beautiful. And it's real. And I'll leave it at that and I can share it with others. And if I can't, my children can. Yeah. They have it in them the same. Do you think there have been any attempts to censor you on any other media or podcast? >> So, like like how so?

>> And what's the motive? And yeah, and what's an example and what's the motive? I think that there's the narrative is it's dark and ugly and evil leave it alone. Yeah, but you have such a positive healing story. Well, that's why. And then oh, it's they want they want it to be this like >> dark and ugly. Don't don't mess with it. We might lose control of the people. If you mess if So, they don't like me sharing this at all. Mhm.

>> I've been told that a thousand times. I've been told two or three times, "You're you're doing disclosure. Yeah. Don't do We're we're to do this. You're getting ahead of us. Yeah. Any any examples of censorship that you've like Danny Danny Jones. Really? That video and a whole lot more. Which what what did Danny Oh, Danny Jones is the the video is getting throttled >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was censorship. That thing was going 100 150,000 views a >> it specifically that you think got it? I

don't know. That was me mentioning about some technology at mission control. Okay. Okay. And I don't want to say that again. >> Okay, sure, sure, sure, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got it. That's wild though. And that's crazy you backtrack you kind back channel then you figured out that NASA was literally censoring. Yeah. >> or whoever's controlling that. >> Yeah, well, there's got But they sent the word. That's what I was told. >> There there has to be a connection

case, that's like you know It's kind of what happened with me. Interesting. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, and then I think there's a manipulation of Google Trends because that then this guy Rob Jones who I've gotten to know a little better since then and seems very high trust high credibility. Um he he found the spike and then the spike got deleted. So it's like if you're if you're telling me that Google doesn't have some sort of backdoor around special access programs being named

the connection with the DOD around that you're crazy. You're the conspiracy there. Like come on. Well, yeah, and it happens to me all the time. Yeah. I would have sold twice as many books already. Guarantee you. They've cost me a lot of book sales because of Mhm. shadow banning or Mhm. Yeah. Well, I think you're I think it's piercing through. I think I think you know, a lot of people uh love your story and are reading your book and

I you know, whatever censorship may or may not be occurring I I I don't think it's really you know, hampering you in a in a serious way. Right. Yeah. Well, we're pushing through. There you go. They can't keep the light out, right? The light gets through cracks and Yeah, well, that's this whole this whole subject. It's like you know, you did do don't don't take my don't distrust everything I say or you say or anybody else. Like the there's the world is I think shifting in this sort of 100%. serious way and like you

know, I I I I fundamentally believe that and I see it and I feel it. So That's that new knowledge that's coming. Yes. Well, on that note thank you so much Chris. I appreciate you, man. >> Absolutely. Thank you, brother. Cool. Absolutely. All right.